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Mackep83
Nov 1st, 2009, 07:34 AM
Venus second serve from yesterday can be one of the worst I have seen.

At 0.58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dloYMUQMauo

Tennisstar86
Nov 1st, 2009, 07:40 AM
Venus second serve from yesterday can be one of the worst I have seen.

At 0.58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dloYMUQMauo

sadly Ive hit much worse....

Mackep83
Nov 1st, 2009, 07:45 AM
sadly Ive hit much worse....

Haha, well same here, but for being one of the best servers of all time its a very bad one

Mikey.
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:11 AM
I think it might be even worse than Daniela's at Wimbledon 07 against Serena :sobbing:

thegreendestiny
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:13 AM
Have you seen A. Radwanska's? I suggest you check it. :help:

Uranium
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:14 AM
Venus in Dubai against Serena also hit some WTF second serves.

Caralenko
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:14 AM
Oh my :tape: What about this?

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9854/df1.gif

I think it might be even worse than Daniela's at Wimbledon 07 against Serena :sobbing:



Video? :spit:

s_j
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:16 AM
We can't have a thread like this without Elena Dementieva popping up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45gvXKtVZYo

gc-spurs
Nov 1st, 2009, 10:08 AM
Bahaha there was lots of comments about it in the other thread, I'm happy I've seen it now. Made my night.

ViennaCalling
Nov 1st, 2009, 10:34 AM
Tamira comes to my mind :tape: :lol: :hearts:

Javi.
Nov 1st, 2009, 10:36 AM
Anabel Medina Garrigues :spit:

Ntour
Nov 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM
Justine Henin in the Wimbledon final 06 it bounced on her side of the net :o

youizahoe
Nov 1st, 2009, 12:39 PM
:rolls:

Acinolbaj
Nov 1st, 2009, 01:15 PM
aww, Hantuchovaīs serve in Wimbedon against Serana :spit: I think Daniela made it two times in a row.

Illusionist
Nov 1st, 2009, 01:52 PM
:lol: I remember this, hilarious :lol:

danieln1
Nov 1st, 2009, 01:53 PM
aww, Hantuchovaīs serve in Wimbedon against Serana :spit: I think Daniela made it two times in a row.

That was way worse than venus, who actually got to the net... :haha: :haha:

rockstar
Nov 1st, 2009, 02:00 PM
LOL at jelena doing a twirl after venus hit that :lol:

and wasnt there a gif of daniela's serve followed by serena scoffing, it's hilarious

SVK
Nov 1st, 2009, 02:07 PM
And this?...Itīs not second serve but:spit:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/irhwXV-HkuM&hl=cs&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/irhwXV-HkuM&hl=cs&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

JolinA
Nov 1st, 2009, 02:42 PM
Su-Wei's second serve is much better :inlove:

Mikey.
Nov 1st, 2009, 07:02 PM
And this?...Itīs not second serve but:spit:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/irhwXV-HkuM&hl=cs&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/irhwXV-HkuM&hl=cs&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


yeah :spit: wtf

SOA_MC
Nov 1st, 2009, 07:18 PM
I have seen Ana hit a serve that landed 5 feet beyond the baseline

sweetpeas
Nov 1st, 2009, 08:07 PM
Alot of player's second serve againist Serena are horriable.Venus is no different.

The Dawntreader
Nov 1st, 2009, 08:45 PM
Venus's timing on second serves can be absolutely wacko.

That Safina second serve:tape::tape::lol:

She really has the worst serve in the top 10 these days. I've been saying it all year.

SVK
Nov 1st, 2009, 08:50 PM
I donīt see the Safinaīs serve..itīs too small:sobbing:

gc-spurs
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:10 PM
I donīt see the Safinaīs serve..itīs too small:sobbing:

Its pretty easy to see, just look on the very left of the image

Michael.
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:16 PM
I think it might be even worse than Daniela's at Wimbledon 07 against Serena :sobbing:

:sobbing: .

hdfb
Nov 1st, 2009, 09:20 PM
:lol: Oh Venus. :hug:

goldrush
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:05 AM
Yeah. Pretty bad.

As an only occasional viewer of tennis I still don't get the reasoning behind the second serve being any different from the first. I got a few stats from an old tournament and it seems that overall the players won about 75% of the first serves they got in and got in 63% of them so (0.75*0.63))100 = 47% chance of winning by going for a 1at serve. But then of the second serves in they won about 45% of the points and got in 90% of those they took in. So (0.45*0.90))100 = 41% chance of winning by going for a 2nd serve. So approx 6% more chance of winning.

So if the highest chance of winning comes from the 1st serve (ie being fast) then why do they make the second serve slower? It seems to me looking at the stats the higher chance of a fault is more than made up for by the higher chance of winning the point if the serve is in. Does anyone have any insight into this. I can't remember what the surface was. Maybe on different surfaces the number may look differently. I can't believe nobody in the game can not see this. There must be something here that I'm missing perhaps? Maybe a proper user can make a new thread with this in as I think it's worth discussing but I can't start new threads.

Six Feet Under
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:09 AM
Can anyone recall a second serve under 100Km/h?

sarddenso
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:11 AM
So if the highest chance of winning comes from the 1st serve (ie being fast) then why do they make the second serve slower? It seems to me looking at the stats the higher chance of a fault is more than made up for by the higher chance of winning the point if the serve is in. Does anyone have any insight into this. I can't remember what the surface was. Maybe on different surfaces the number may look differently. I can't believe nobody in the game can not see this. There must be something here that I'm missing perhaps? Maybe a proper user can make a new thread with this in as I think it's worth discussing but I can't start new threads.

This must be Dokic's mentality! ;)
She only has a first serve!

Although lately she has slowed her second serve occasionally.

I suppose in general players would rather slow the second serve or hit a serve with more chance of going in rather than giving away a point with a double fault.
Generally it is a lower risk of a fault, but against a player with a good return it can be punished.

shoparound
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:14 AM
Yeah. Pretty bad.

As an only occasional viewer of tennis I still don't get the reasoning behind the second serve being any different from the first. I got a few stats from an old tournament and it seems that overall the players won about 75% of the first serves they got in and got in 63% of them so (0.75*0.63))100 = 47% chance of winning by going for a 1at serve. But then of the second serves in they won about 45% of the points and got in 90% of those they took in. So (0.45*0.90))100 = 41% chance of winning by going for a 2nd serve. So approx 6% more chance of winning.

So if the highest chance of winning comes from the 1st serve (ie being fast) then why do they make the second serve slower? It seems to me looking at the stats the higher chance of a fault is more than made up for by the higher chance of winning the point if the serve is in. Does anyone have any insight into this. I can't remember what the surface was. Maybe on different surfaces the number may look differently. I can't believe nobody in the game can not see this. There must be something here that I'm missing perhaps? Maybe a proper user can make a new thread with this in as I think it's worth discussing but I can't start new threads.

Reliable second serves calm the players' nerves and gets them through tough situations. If you want a player that doesn't slow down the second serve much, look at Sharapova now... and you see the results :help:

As far as the thread topic goes...

This serve didn't even make into the court @ 1.04 :sobbing: Although it was a 1st serve...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXnbDcifSoA

goldrush
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:15 AM
So is it some sort of disgrace to double fault more even if you end up winning more points overall?

goldrush
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:20 AM
So what happens with her? Does she end up faulting more than she does on her first serve or does she just not play generally as well on the second serves? I guess what I'm asking is what part of the numbers / calculations I did changes because of the mental side of it being the second serve if they play it as if it's a first? More faults or a lower win % when they get the serve in or both?

sarddenso
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:30 AM
Nerves will definitely play with the players on how they hit the second serve.
Looking at your numbers, if they hit like a first serve, then there is a 37% chance of double faulting.

I think the thinking would be better to get it in and force the opponent to have to play a shot to win, rather than hitting a double fault and gifting them the point. Not really a dsigrace to double fault, but you want to make your opponent work for the point.

shoparound
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:30 AM
You also have to remember that stats don't tell everything.
There are good players that have second serves that have a lot of movement and keeps them in the point and gives themselves a chance at winning it and holding. Stats include players with not a very good second serve so it looks a lot worse than it actually is.

goldrush
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:39 AM
Yeah, It'd need to be looked at player by player to draw any real conclusions I guess. Like you say every player is different. Maybe there are some players (perhaps Dockic and Sharapova to a certain extent) who are built mentally and physically in a certain way that my theory could work for. If they don't have much endurance physically maybe they are better off not making their opponent work on second serves as much as it makes them have to work too. And if their mind is somewhat robotic maybe the pressure of it being a second serve may not effect them. I guess that's a fairly specific type of player so that might explain why they don't really exist in reality.

sarddenso
Jan 28th, 2011, 09:47 AM
btw welcome to the board! ;)

Pebbles
Jan 28th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Can anyone recall a second serve under 100Km/h?
Lena used to serve around 55-60 mph second serve in 2004, I remember the watch against Capriati at USO there was one that was barely over 50 mph. That's equal to less than 100 km/h I believe.

SVK
Jan 28th, 2011, 04:27 PM
Iīm sure Radwanska had such second serve too, I remember watching her against Sharapova at US Open once and some of her second serves were very weak

Serenita
Jan 28th, 2011, 04:28 PM
Love these epic serve fails.

One of my favorite serve fails ever:

rTTlD1afK0Y

terceira
Jan 28th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Varvara Lepchenko

Valanga
Jan 28th, 2011, 07:13 PM
I once saw MLDB hit a serve(forgot it is 2nd or 1st) that bounced 4-5 feet in front of her

Timariot
Jan 28th, 2011, 07:45 PM
Can anyone recall a second serve under 100Km/h?

That's not biggie, even some men hit under 100km/h second serves. I think Coria did.

Doesn't anyone remember Aniko "Henin-killa" Kapros? Now THERE was a weak second serve.

Hian
Jan 28th, 2011, 07:51 PM
Love these epic serve fails.

One of my favorite serve fails ever:

rTTlD1afK0Y

:spit:

claypova
Jan 29th, 2011, 04:10 AM
Z77rGLKfIrA

Lena :hysteric:

Rui.
Jan 29th, 2011, 07:44 AM
I once saw MLDB hit a serve(forgot it is 2nd or 1st) that bounced 4-5 feet in front of her

it was a first serve :)
0.30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw8gPuXOgC0

Pops Maellard
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:13 PM
I think it's a tie between Radwanska and Paszek.

Adrian.
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:14 PM
Paszek with no doubt :help:

Mikey.
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:20 PM
All the hilare yt vids in this thread have been deleted. :sobbing:

eck
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:22 PM
The minute I saw this thread I knew Tamira's name will be in there somehow.

SVK
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:47 PM
She is still able to ace Serena with second serve:shrug:

On the other hand Pin was able to ace Ivanovic with secod serve too...

Miracle Worker
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Didn't Paszek hit an ace from 2nd serve today? :scratch:

nevetssllim
Jan 17th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Aniko Kapros :help: