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Jorn
Oct 21st, 2009, 11:21 PM
Sony Ericsson Championships, YEC in Doha, Qatar

2009 Players with next weeks Ranking:

1) Safina
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/safina.jpg
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2) S.Williams
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/swilliams.jpg
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3) Kuznetsova
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/svetak.jpg
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4) Caroline
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/carostella2.jpg
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5) Dementieva
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/elenad.jpg
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6)
Azarenka
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/vikaa.jpg
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7) V.Williams
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/vwilliams.jpg
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8 Jankovic
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/jelenaj.jpg
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9 Zvonareva - Alternate
http://www.tina-pisnik.net/veraz.jpg
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10) A.Radwanska - Alternate

Jorn
Oct 21st, 2009, 11:22 PM
Ithink Caro's debut in YEC deserve a new Thread :)


Jankovic and Zvonareva still plays in Moscow for final YEC Spot.

betowiec
Oct 25th, 2009, 01:51 AM
good luck CW

Martian Jeza
Oct 25th, 2009, 07:56 AM
Still don't know what to expect but to be honest ! If you see her last results, it was disappointing ! I know she was ill at Tokyo and Beijing but yet her Osaka run could be much better despite a semi-final. I hope she will win at least one match but it will be very difficult.

Jorn
Oct 25th, 2009, 01:19 PM
Group draw is done tonight at about 18:00 CET (8pm local time.)


I hope Caro get a good placement, but all matches will be tough!

Protoss
Oct 25th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Group draw is done tonight at about 18:00 CET (8pm local time.)


I hope Caro get a good placement, but all matches will be tough!
Yah, it's hard to decide what would be the best draw for Caro.

jasminefu623
Oct 25th, 2009, 05:03 PM
i think we are going to know the draw soon

Jorn
Oct 25th, 2009, 07:17 PM
All players, but no Draw out yet...

http://www.life.com/image/92334029

Jorn
Oct 25th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Groups announced

S.Williams, V.Williams, Dementieva, Kuznetsova in one

Wozniacki, Safina, Azarenka, and Jankovic in other


Not a bad draw.

C. W. Fields
Oct 25th, 2009, 11:03 PM
Groups announced

S.Williams, V.Williams, Dementieva, Kuznetsova in one

Wozniacki, Safina, Azarenka, and Jankovic in other


Not a bad draw.

I wouldn't call it great, either. Caro has never beaten Safina or Jankovic and she's lost the last two matches against Azarenka. Dementieva and Kuznetsova would have been more to my liking.

stangtennis
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:55 AM
The 8 players:
http://www.sonyericsson-championships.com/javaImages/a1/af/0,,12910~7516065,00.jpg

Serena Willimans clothes is so dark she almost disappears in the dark background. No a very good picture really. It's hard to see their faces properly, espcially Serena's face. It's hard to even tell it's Serena if you didn't knew she was one of the persons in this picture. She looks more like a drag queen with too much lipstick and a red nose in this picture. It's also hard to tell it's Dinara Safina's face in that picture, looks much hotter in that picture.
Her sister Venus Williams kind of looks like a French maid in that black and white dress.
And it looks like Jankovic though she was going to a toga party, and her face is also pale white with reflections in the picture. Dementiva came straight from bed still in her night gown with high hair from the pillow. Kuznetsova is about to pull a gun or something from a secret pocket. ;-)

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 26th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Caroline not playing tommorrow Tuesday, good thing give her leg more time to heal. And more time to practice.

Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Centre Court (from 17.00hrs)
1. Victoria Azarenka vs. Jelena Jankovic
2. Elena Dementieva vs. Venus Williams
3. Serena Williams vs. Svetlana Kuznetsova

C. W. Fields
Oct 27th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Piotr says on Sporten.dk that Caro won't be completely ready for the first match and they won't even decide whether she's gonna play at all until just before the Safina match! :eek:

Oh, Caro, why did you play in Luxembourg!? WHY, WHY, WHY??? :confused::confused::confused:

Protoss
Oct 27th, 2009, 09:17 AM
Piotr says on Sporten.dk that Caro won't be completely ready for the first match and they won't even decide whether she's gonna play at all until just before the Safina match! :eek:

Oh, Caro, why did you play in Luxembourg!? WHY, WHY, WHY??? :confused::confused::confused:
Uh oh. :scared:

Any chance Piotr is being over dramatic like he sometimes is?

Martian Jeza
Oct 27th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Piotr says on Sporten.dk that Caro won't be completely ready for the first match and they won't even decide whether she's gonna play at all until just before the Safina match! :eek:

Oh, Caro, why did you play in Luxembourg!? WHY, WHY, WHY??? :confused::confused::confused:


You don't have to ask this question to Caroline but well her father ! Her father is completly losing it. As I said, he hasn't got a clue what he's doing. :rolleyes:

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 27th, 2009, 11:53 AM
If Caroline is ready to play she will play tommorrow .

Wednesday, October 28, 2009

Centre Court (from 17.00hrs) 15:00 CET
1. Caroline Wozniacki vs. Victoria Azarenka
2. Dinara Safina vs. Jelena Jankovic
3. Serena Williams vs. Venus Williams

Jorn
Oct 27th, 2009, 12:15 PM
Get well soon Caro! just 26 hours to go.

Jorn
Oct 27th, 2009, 12:29 PM
btw, Can Caro withdraw from her first match and play the next 2? in hope on 2 wins...

Protoss
Oct 27th, 2009, 01:20 PM
btw, Can Caro withdraw from her first match and play the next 2? in hope on 2 wins...
My guess would be no. :shrug:

Martian Jeza
Oct 27th, 2009, 02:52 PM
Jorn, impossible ! Or you play the whole stuff or you don't play ! You can't skip the 1st match and playing the 2 others... She has no other choice but playing tomorrow.

Jorn
Oct 27th, 2009, 06:47 PM
Danish ES commentator is a coach in Caro's club in Copenhagen, he said Caro had been training for 1 hour today and he spoke with her hitting partner, Caro may play tomorrow. We can hope!

stangtennis
Oct 28th, 2009, 02:24 AM
I don't get why Wozniacki meets Azarenka and not Safina tomorrow.
Wozniacki and Safina are the only players left who haven't played yet, so why don't they meet each other in the first match?
I think it's unfair to Wozniacki and Safina that in their first match they get to meet opponents who has already played one match beforehand.
It's always harder to play the first match of a tournamnet when you have to get into the rythm and get a fell for the stadium, court and balls. They might be a bit fresher than their opponents, but still their opponets aren't worn down yet after only one match. I think most players play better in the second match of a tournament than their first match.

On the other hand considering Wozniacki is not completely over her injury yet, she's probably lucky to get an extra day off before her tournamnet starts.

stangtennis
Oct 28th, 2009, 02:28 AM
btw, Can Caro withdraw from her first match and play the next 2? in hope on 2 wins...

If she's not quite fit yet she could always play at half speed and let the opponent win easily without doing too much running. And then hope to be able to win the next two matches to qualify to the semis.

stangtennis
Oct 28th, 2009, 02:30 AM
Danish ES commentator is a coach in Caro's club in Copenhagen,
Besides being a good tennis player, I think Michael Mortensen is a big music fan.
I have noticed whenever the stadium plays a tune in the breaks he always tells the name of the song and the artist at the end of each song, even for very old songs and rather unknown songs and artists.
Besides being ES commentator he's the headcoach for Caroline's Danish tennis club KB.

Maybe there's something with Danish tennis players and music.
World famous Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich was on his way to becoming Denmark's next pro tennis player before starting Metallica instead. His farther Torben Ulrich was one of Denmark's best tennis players in history and was/is also a Jazz musician and founded the Jazz club Blue Note in 1952 with some friends, one of them being Kurt Nilsen, Denmark's best tennis player in history and the only grand slam winner (US Open, mixed doubles) and Wimbledon finalist (men's singles).

C. W. Fields
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:11 PM
Odds att Bwin; Caroline Wozniacki (DEN) 2.65 - Victoria Azarenka (BLR) 1.42.
They also expect Caro to lose.

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:24 PM
Odds att Bwin; Caroline Wozniacki (DEN) 2.65 - Victoria Azarenka (BLR) 1.42.
They also expect Caro to lose.

It might be fun to follow the Betf@ir Forum this afternoon. ;)

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:25 PM
Caroline Interview From Eurosport Looking Back At 2009 Before Doha

pMs8nwXFQEM

Caroline All Shined Up AT Doha Draw And Signing Big Balls Later Answers Questions From Eurosport

sIGsMA5i8tI

C. W. Fields
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:44 PM
Doha preview from the WTA site;

[4] Caroline Wozniacki (DEN) vs. [6] Victoria Azarenka (BLR)
Azarenka leads 2-1
Yesterday iAzarenka made her season finale debut, and what a fine job she made of it too. That the 20-year-old was quick out of the blocks and kept Jelena Jankovic off balance was nothing new; the impressive thing was the way she held her game - and her mind - together when Jankovic threatened to get back into the match. That experience should stand the Belarusian in good stead today, as 19-year-old Wozniacki takes her turn to make her first championships appearance. While the Dane was generally more consistent and rose higher in the rankings, Azarenka had a surprisingly easy run against her friend in the two matches they played this year, losing just four games in each. That, coupled with Wozniacki's heavier workload in recent months and signs her body needs a break, could well weigh in Azarenka's favor once again.

Jorn
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:53 PM
They could laugh at the Draw, but hvem ler sidst idag? ;)

I saw on tv2.dk, all Odds are in favour Azarenka...

I just hope Caro can play, and play well today.

http://nsa10.casimages.com/img/2009/10/26/091026073328111657.jpg

Protoss
Oct 28th, 2009, 12:59 PM
Here's some comments from Azarenka about her upcoming match with Caro:

...
The Belarussian will face fellow debutant and close friend Caroline Wozniacki on Wednesday when another victory could all but seal her place in the semi-finals.

"I expect a good match from her," she said "She's a great fighter, a good girl, and I'm sure we're going to have fun."

Jorn
Oct 28th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Just 40 more minuts to go, Has there been any news about how she was doing after the Warmup/training today? Nothing on the danish websites I have seen...

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 28th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Just 40 more minuts to go, Has there been any news about how she was doing after the Warmup/training today? Nothing on the danish websites I have seen...
You might have read that she didn't push her self to the extremes in her training, and every time she trod down on that leg she could feel the injury as a little stick.

Not good . but this might help her humour.

WTA-boss clears Caroline


- WTA is 100 percent behind Caroline, and there's absolutely no one in the association who questions her integrity. Quite the contrary as everyone has agreed that what she did in Luxembourg was completely correct.

Caroline Wozniacki's American manager, John Tobias, was a happy man when he Tuesday night returned after a meeting with WTA's chief executive, Stacey Allaster.

- They cannot make a public statement before the Tennis Integrity Unit (an independent third party formed by the WTA and the ATP with the purpose of processing suspicion of foul play) has reviwed the case. And there's some delays because their representative won't be arriving here until Saturday.

- It's making everyone - not least Caroline - frustrated that it's taking so long to close this case which everyone believes has been completely blown out of proportions, but we have no choice but to wait, says John Tobias.
http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/anden_sport/tennis/article1245406.ece

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 28th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Hopefully will Caroline play Safina tommorrow.

Thursday, October 29, 2009

Centre Court (from 17.00hrs) 15:00 CET
1. Dinara Safina vs. Caroline Wozniacki
2. Serena Williams vs. Elena Dementieva
3. Svetlana Kuznetsova vs. Venus Williams

Protoss
Oct 28th, 2009, 02:00 PM
Hopefully Caro can win at least 1 match here, or at least 1 set. It'd be dissapointing to see the season end in a complete gooseegg.

If Caro is healthy, there's no real excuse for taking another beatdown from Azarenka. So woman up Caro. :)

Good luck Caro. :)

Jorn
Oct 28th, 2009, 02:03 PM
They walk In, so Caro will try her best.

stangtennis
Oct 28th, 2009, 05:54 PM
So I guess 1st reserve Zvonareva will meet Wozniacki tomorrow instead of the Dinar Safina who quit todays match with a back injury.

Safina's good friend Anastasia Myskina is also in Doha doing some Russian TV commenting and supporting Safina. Yesterday Anastasia Myskina said in an interview on Eurosport that Safina has had great back problems for a long time but has kept quiet about it in public.
In today's match unfortunately we saw what Anastasia Myskina said yesterday about Safina's back injury was true.

jasminefu623
Oct 28th, 2009, 06:04 PM
it is not good for caro, coz jankovic also had a win now....

C. W. Fields
Oct 28th, 2009, 07:11 PM
So I guess 1st reserve Zvonareva will meet Wozniacki tomorrow instead of the Dinara Safina who quit todays match with a back injury.


Yes, instead of playing an opponent she has faced only once before, this spring, losing 2 & 4 (Madrid), she'll be playing an opponent she has faced only once before, this spring, losing 2 & 4 (Indian Wells). :lol:

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 28th, 2009, 07:23 PM
That was 2hours 58, of pure hell for me.
I have absolutley no nails left at all.

The mental strength of our girl is UN BELIEVABLE.
All those Danes In the red Caroline t shirts must have helped, a good sponsor Caroline has.

The 1st set was so depressing. Oh no Caroline will loose quickly.

2nd set much better even though the tension of the 20 min game that CW lost, was unbearable, but she turned it round anyway.

Aznzrenka came back after the 10 min rest strong again, but it was fight fight from Caroline all the way.
Saving the Match point and then going on too win was superb.

That was 1 of the best matches I have seen her play. Almost 32 winners in 2sets.
Because she couldn't run so much she played a much more aggrasive game.
Lets hope she uses this more in the future.

So tommorrow is ??? instead.


Thursday, October 29, 2009

Centre Court (from 17.00hrs) 15:00 CET
1. Vera Zvonareva vs. Caroline Wozniacki
2. Serena Williams vs. Elena Dementieva
3. Svetlana Kuznetsova vs. Venus Williams

Pity Safina put Jankovic back in the running wiyh a 6-1 6-0 score:mad:

Hugh.
Oct 28th, 2009, 10:13 PM
That was 2hours 58, of pure hell for me.
I have absolutley no nails left at all.

The mental strength of our girl is UN BELIEVABLE.
All those Danes In the red Caroline t shirts must have helped, a good sponsor Caroline has.

The 1st set was so depressing. Oh no Caroline will loose quickly.

2nd set much better even though the tension of the 20 min game that CW lost, was unbearable, but she turned it round anyway.

Aznzrenka came back after the 10 min rest strong again, but it was fight fight from Caroline all the way.
Saving the Match point and then going on too win was superb.

That was 1 of the best matches I have seen her play. Almost 32 winners in 2sets.
Because she couldn't run so much she played a much more aggrasive game.
Lets hope she uses this more in the future.
Yeah exactly.

Caro's offense was very impressive today, bar the first set. So many winners and even some off the forehand from the back of the court...definitely some of her best tennis. And great fighting til the very end aswell. If she plays like this against Zvonareva tomorrow, then she should be able to get a result...but who knows what will happen.

Jorn
Oct 28th, 2009, 10:55 PM
Group Standings after day 2:

WHITE GROUP - mtc won - sets won

1) Caroline Wozniacki 1/0 - 2/1
2) Victoria Azarenka 1/1 - 3/2
3) Jelena Jankovic 1/1 - 2/2
4) Vera Zvonareva 0/0 - 0/0
5) Dinara Safina 0/1 - 0/2


Nothing is decided yet, Caro and Vika both need to beat Vera Z.

Caro and Vika was still friends and talk about they both may reach the SF's.

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 28th, 2009, 11:36 PM
Yeah exactly.

Caro's offense was very impressive today, bar the first set. So many winners and even some off the forehand from the back of the court...definitely some of her best tennis. And great fighting til the very end aswell. If she plays like this against Zvonareva tomorrow, then she should be able to get a result...but who knows what will happen.

Today Caroline's forhand winners were nearly better than her backhand.
I hope she can develope them more, as well as using her more agressive play more often.

Jorn
Oct 29th, 2009, 05:31 PM
WHITE GROUP - mtc won - sets won

1) Caroline Wozniacki 2/0 - 4/2
2) Victoria Azarenka 1/1 - 3/2
3) Jelena Jankovic 1/1 - 2/2
4) Vera Zvonareva 0/1 - 1/2
5) Dinara Safina 0/1 - 0/2 (WD)

Final Standings if Caro loses tomorrow and Azarenka wins. 2-0 in sets.

WHITE GROUP - mtc won - sets won

1) Caroline Wozniacki 2/1 - 4/4 (1-2, 5-4)
2) Victoria Azarenka 2/1 - 5/2
3) Jelena Jankovic 2/1 - 4/2 (2-1, 4-3)
4) Vera Zvonareva 0/2 - 1/4



So Caro atleast need to win one set. So far I can see.

I don't see her winning or play 3 sets tomorrow :sad:

Martian Jeza
Oct 29th, 2009, 05:49 PM
WHITE GROUP - mtc won - sets won

1) Caroline Wozniacki 2/0 - 4/2
2) Victoria Azarenka 1/1 - 3/2
3) Jelena Jankovic 1/1 - 2/2
4) Vera Zvonareva 0/1 - 1/2
5) Dinara Safina 0/1 - 0/2 (WD)

Final Standings if Caro loses tomorrow and Azarenka wins. 2-0 in sets.

WHITE GROUP - mtc won - sets won

1) Caroline Wozniacki 2/1 - 4/4 (1-2, 5-4)
2) Victoria Azarenka 2/1 - 5/2
3) Jelena Jankovic 2/1 - 4/2 (2-1, 4-3)
4) Vera Zvonareva 0/2 - 1/4



So Caro atleast need to win one set. So far I can see.

I don't see her winning or play 3 sets tomorrow :sad:

One set will be enough to qualify for the next round. But about her health, I still blame her father ! He's the one to blame.

stangtennis
Oct 29th, 2009, 06:06 PM
OFFICIAL RULES (PDF) (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/SEWTATour-Archive/Archive/AboutTheTour/rules.pdf)

Page 162-163:
4. Final Standings of Round Robin Competition

a. Final Standings

The final standings of each group shall be determined by the first of the following methods that apply:

Greatest number of wins;


Greatest number of matches played; or


Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are tied then:



If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less than all three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the single elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2) players tied with 1-2 records; or


Highest percentage of sets won; or


Highest percentage of games won.

b. Ties

If the above tie-breaking methods produce one (1) superior player (1st place) or one (1) inferior player (3rd place), and the two (2) remaining players are tied, the tie between those two (2) players shall be broken by head-to-head record.

If a tie still exists after applying the above tie-breaking methods, then the WTA, in consultation with the Tournament, shall make the final determination.

c. Default or Retirement

In applying the tie-breaking procedures, a conduct default or retirement shall count as a straight-set win or loss. However, games won or lost in matches with a defaulting or retiring player shall not be counted in the application of the percentage of games won method.

A player who retires during the Round Robin because of illness or injury may continue in the competition if it is approved by the Tournament Physician.

d. Withdrawal

Any player who withdraws from any round robin match after the first match shall not be eligible for the Single Elimination Competition.

e. Semifinal Seeding

The winner of each group shall be placed in separate semi-finals brackets. The runner up of each group shall be placed in the semifinal bracket with the winner of the opposite group.

Jorn
Oct 29th, 2009, 06:13 PM
So Caro can play one game tomorrow and so retire?

She's in the SEMIs if Vera Z beats Vika.


Also Safina had been able to play more matches had she been well.

kman
Oct 29th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Honestly, I don't even care that much. Caroline proved what she came to prove. She went 2-0 at her first YEC until she got too injured. No one shall ever again say that she can't hang with the other top 10 players.

I still think it's lame though that JJ gets 2-0 just because Safina retired at 1-1 in the first set. The match had barely begun. But hey, if that's the rules....

C. W. Fields
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:02 PM
4. Final Standings of Round Robin Competition

a. Final Standings

The final standings of each group shall be determined by the first of the following methods that apply:

1. Greatest number of wins;

2. Greatest number of matches played; or

3. Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are tied then:

1. If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less than all three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the single elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2) players tied with 1-2 records; or

2. Highest percentage of sets won;


Somehow the rules only seems to have considered the possibilty of three players with 1 win, but I suppose the same rules apply to three players with 2 wins.
I thought highest NUMBER of sets won is what counted the most, but instead it's the highest PERCENTAGE of sets won. That means if Caro loses 1-2 tomorrow, then JJ's set score 4-3 will be better than Caro's set score 5-4 and Caro will be eliminated if Azarenka also wins.
Ergo, vis a vis, concordently; Caro is forced to win tomorrow to qualify for the SF without relying on Zvonareva.

stangtennis
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:03 PM
One set will be enough to qualify for the next round.
That's true.

If Azarenka and Jankovic both win tomorrow then Azarenka, Jankovic and Wozniacki will be tied with 2 wins all.
This means "rule iii. b)" will come into play: "Highest percentage of sets won [Note: this is only in head-to-head matches between tied players, so matches against Safina/Zvonareva doesn't count]".

Azarenka's head-to-head set score in matches against Wozniacki and Jankovic is already known: 3-2 (2-0 + 1-2)
Azarenka's percentage of sets won in h2h matches will then be:
Azarenka (3 wins in 5 sets): 100 * 3/5 = 60%

In this case there will be 2 different scenarios:
1) Jankovic winning 2-1 over Wozniacki
1) Jankovic winning 2-1 over Wozniacki


Scenario 1 (Jankovic wins 2-1):

If Jankovic wins 2-1 tomorrow then her h2h set score against Azarenka and Wozniacki will be 2-3 (0-2 + 2-1)
Jankovic's percentage of sets won in h2h matches will then be:
Jankovic (2 wins in 5 sets): 100 * 2/5 = 40%

And Wozniacki's h2h set score against Azarenka and Jankovic will be 3-3 (2-1 + 1-2)
Wozniacki's percentage of sets won in h2h matches will then be:
Wozniacki (3 wins in 6 sets): 100 * 3/6 = 50%


Scenario 2 (Jankovic wins 2-0):

If Jankovic wins 2-0 tomorrow then her h2h set score against Azarenka and Wozniacki will be 2-2 (0-2 + 2-0)
Jankovic's percentage of sets won in h2h matches will then be:
Jankovic (2 wins in 4 sets): 100 * 2/4 = 50%

And Wozniacki's h2h set score against Azarenka and Jankovic will be 2-3 (2-1 + 0-2)
Wozniacki's percentage of sets won in h2h matches will then be:
Wozniacki (2 wins in 5 sets): 100 * 2/5 = 40%

C. W. Fields
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:12 PM
If Azarenka and Jankovic both win tomorrow then Azarenka, Jankovic and Wozniacki will be tied with 2 wins all.
This means "rule iii. b)" will come into play: "Highest percentage of sets won [Note: this is only in head-to-head matches between tied players, so matches against Safina/Zvonareva doesn't count]".


Are you sure it's only the sets score between tied players that counts and not the over all sets score? I can't read that from the rules. But if you are right then please ignore my previous post.

stangtennis
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Somehow the rules only seems to have considered the possibilty of three players with 1 win, but I suppose the same rules apply to three players with 2 wins.
No, it states that rule iii. a) only comes into play if the three tied players have won 1 match each. When the three tied players have won 2 matches instead they go to rule iii. b) instead of rule iii. a)[/QUOTE]



I thought highest NUMBER of sets won is what counted the most, but instead it's the highest PERCENTAGE of sets won. That means if Caro loses 1-2 tomorrow, then JJ's set score 4-3 will be better than Caro's set score 5-4 and Caro will be eliminated if Azarenka also wins.
Ergo, vis a vis, concordently; Caro is forced to win tomorrow to qualify for the SF without relying on Zvonareva.
No as I mentioned in my post above, only the set scores in head-to-head matches between tied players count in rule iii.
So set scores from all matches played against Safina and Zvonareva doesn't count if Azarenbka, Jankovic and Wozniacki are tied at 2 wins in the group each.
This means it's enough to win 1 set against Jankovic for Wozniacki to qualify for the semifinals.
First I had made a post where I had missed the note about head-to-head matches only too. But I deleted it again and made a new calculation with the set score of only head-to-head matches are included.

stangtennis
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:16 PM
Are you sure it's only the sets score between tied players that counts and not the over all sets score? I can't read that from the rules. But if you are right then please ignore my previous post.
Looking at the rules again, rule iii. can actually be read in two ways.
The head-to-head comment can either apply to only the first half of the sentence where two players are tied or it can apply to the whole sentence, in which case the head-to-head comment also applies if three players are tied.

Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are tied then:

So I don't know how WTA will interpet their own rule.
Rule's should not be left open for intrepetation anyway, so they should have written the rule more clear.
Actually I'm now I think the hea-to-head comment only apllies to the first half of the sentence where two players are tied. In this case Wozniacki has to beat Jankovic to be sure to qualify.

Aaric
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:39 PM
If Caroline was suffering just from cramping (no injury i mean) and that´s over tomorrow, she will crush Jelena :shrug: Thats a fact
But if she is not healthy, no matter if she wins a set, she wont be able to play the semis, so it´s all about her leg

C. W. Fields
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Yes it specifically says Head-to-head results if rule iii. comes into play:

I'm still not convinced your reading is right.

Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied, or if three (3) players are tied then

a. If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less than all three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the single elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2) players tied with 1-2 records; or

b. Highest percentage of sets won;.

In my eyes you can also read it like the underlined comma separates between two different sets of rules. What's before the comma (H2H) applies only between two tied players, while it's only what's after the comma (a & b) that applies to three players tied.

And why doesn't the a-rule apply if three players have two wins? Shouldn't it matter there also if one of the players has played only two matches?

I'm not saying I'm sure you are wrong and I'm right. I'm saying I'm not sure what's right and wrong. :rolleyes:


Edit: Ah, I just read your last post. You have reached the same conclusion as I; noone is sure what to believe!

stangtennis
Oct 29th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Yes after making my comment I realized it could actually be read in two ways and then edited my comment to reflect that.


Reading rule iii. again got me thinking of a college professor I once had.
He thaught us a great advice about writing things like specifications, laws, rules etc.:
Don't write so it can be understood, instead write so it can't be misunderstood.
There's a huge differnece between the two. Instead of thinking is this easy to understand you should be thinking can this be misunderstood in any way when writing rules like this.

Hugh.
Oct 29th, 2009, 08:32 PM
So apparently Zvonareva is out of Doha, so Aga comes in to play Azarenka. Hopefully she can do a favour for Caro.

And I really do not know what to say about today...everything that happened in the match was just unbelievable. I just don't know how Caro did it...a massively inspiring performance, I really hope she's OK now.

stangtennis
Oct 29th, 2009, 08:59 PM
So apparently Zvonareva is out of Doha, so Aga comes in to play Azarenka.
Where have you heard Zvonareva is withdrawing and why is she?

Jorn
Oct 29th, 2009, 09:20 PM
Zvonareva out with ankle problems, see in GM. Its said on TV.


Aga IN mean Vika will more likely win... But GO AGA! :)

C. W. Fields
Oct 29th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Aga IN mean Vika will more likely win... But GO AGA! :)

I think Aga's chances are at least as good as Vera's would have been, considering the way she played for 1½ set today. Aga and Vika haven't faced each other this year so they're a bit hard to compare, but Radwanska's results have been pretty good lately (except against Kirilenko).

C. W. Fields
Oct 29th, 2009, 10:09 PM
Caro was just in for a quick interview on Eurosport. She seemed ok and said she'll definitely play tomorrow. :)

SOA_MC
Oct 30th, 2009, 02:08 AM
Caro has to go 3-0 to make the SF what a messed up group

Zvonareva out with ankle problems, see in GM. Its said on TV.


Aga IN mean Vika will more likely win... But GO AGA! :)

I think Aga has a better shot at beating a underdone Vika than Vera.

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 30th, 2009, 02:28 AM
Caro was just in for a quick interview on Eurosport. She seemed ok and said she'll definitely play tomorrow. :)

Thats good if she is really up to it.

I bet she will really enjoy that 3 week holiday she will be taking away with some of her friends soon.

When I had to go out, Caroline was 6-0 5-2 up Zvonareva had nose bleed and kept falling over, the €urosport commentators were talking like she was already in the Semi, so I thought that it was all but over, and I wouldn't miss much.

BUT

I come home late and read a scoreline that says 60 67(3) 64!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Read the Caroline's Live Scoring Thread, Sony Ericsson Championships, YEC in Doha, Qatar, Danish Delight - Caroline Wozniacki thread - vol 3 and some threads on GM.

Total drama, lost 2 MPs and the tie-break in 2nd set.

Better in set three then horrible video's of Caroline cramping and crying and getting a warning for 20 sec rule.

No more grudging praise from the haters, just back too their usual total sick hatred, and hoards of born again new fans.
People never learn, if you do not go down to their level and reply to their posts there is no fun and they have nothing to say. they are only there for the argument.

My only hope is that she is not laying the foundation for some permanent damage and shortening her career.
I have always enjoyed her fighting spirit, but maybe it is a bit of a two edged sword, together with Team Wozniacki's scheduling skills it could lead to early burn out.

Lets hope the progress with forehand, and seeing what the aggressive play got her, will lead her into a more decisive game where she takes control more, because believing she can and going for winners is what she needs to win fewer but bigger ( with more point) tournaments; there bye diminishing the threat of injuries.

Oh and after all the threads and mountains of "what if" stats I have given up trying to find out of if/how/when she will get into the Semi's, and will wait to see by the OOP's.

At least she has won 2 matches, which is more than I hoped for on Tuesday.
If she gets to the Semis I will still be pleased for her though. :devil:

stangtennis
Oct 30th, 2009, 03:07 AM
According to the offical WTA website it's not enoguh for Wozniacki to just win a set to make sure she qualifies for the semis.
If Azarenka wins then Wozniacki also has to win to qualify.
So this means they don't just look at head-to-head matches but the set score for all the matches in the group combined.
http://www.sonyericsson-championships.com/page/LatestNews/Read/0,,12910~1841486,00.html
In the White Group on Friday, Caroline Wozniacki plays Jelena Jankovic and Victoria Azarenka plays Agnieszka Radwanska. The first match of the day pits Wozniacki against Jankovic - if Wozniacki wins that, then Wozniacki and Azarenka get the two semifinal berths, no matter how the second match goes. If Jankovic wins that, then Jankovic gets the first semifinal berth, and Azarenka will need to win her match to get the second semifinal berth (otherwise Wozniacki will get it).

Either Wozniacki has to win or alternativlely Azarenka has to loose for Wozniacki to qualify.

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 06:13 AM
During the match the both the commentators and we spoke about other matches which the current match reminded us of. Looking back at the result now it actually most reminds me of her Charleston match against Dementieva where she was up a set + 5-3 and held multiples MPs before losing the set, eventually closing out the match in a tight 3rd set.
Hopefully the next act won't be the same. In Charleston she was so tired the next day she lost wthout putting up much of a fight.

But even if Caro does lose today and misses her spot in the SF she has done better than I expected. My pre-Doha guess was 1 win and 2 losses (of course at the time I expected her to play a healthy Safina, a match I thought she would lose). I'm proud of what she has done here. Let's hope she makes me (us) more proud still.

kman
Oct 30th, 2009, 06:52 AM
Well that's okay with me. Any other tournament Caroline would have to win the next match to continue. I'm sure she'll look at it like that and focus on beating JJ. But even if she loses, she still has a chance if Radwanska spanks Azarenka. And no matter what, she can be proud of her performance.

JJ is just supremely lucky she got 2-0 against Safina with no effort and Caroline was a bit unlucky she didn't beat Zvonareva in two sets because of Zvonareva's challenge. That's how it goes sometimes.

Wolfruler
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:00 AM
yeah typically JJ....

kman
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:25 AM
Ifølge EB


Her er de fem scenarier:

* Caroline og Azarenka vinder – begge går til semifinalerne.

* Caroline vinder og Azarenka taber – begge går til semifinalerne.

* Jankovic vinder 2-0 i sæt og Azarenka vinder – begge avancerer til semifinalerne.

* Jankovic vinder 2-1 i sæt og Azarenka vinder - Caroline og Azarenka til semifinalerne

* Jankovic vinder og Azarenka taber – Jankovic og Caroline til semifinalerne.



Ved ikke hvor de har informationen fra og om den er troværdig...

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:43 AM
According to Ekstrabladet
* Jankovic wins 2-1 in sets and Azarenka wins - Caroline and Azarenka to the semifinals


This one is wrong; JJ's set score 4-3 is better than Caro's 5-4 (4/7 is a higher percentage than 5/9).

kman
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:52 AM
yea, sent the author of the article an e-mail. Hopefully it will be corrected soon.

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 09:06 AM
Apparently the reporter also interprets the rules so you only count the sets between the tied players and not from all matches, but I think that's wrong.

kman
Oct 30th, 2009, 09:33 AM
Dammit, which is it? :(

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 09:53 AM
According to the physiotherapists Caro's injury hasn't worsened, Piotr says. The pain yesterday was 'only' cramps. Apparently you get cramps more easily when you're injured because the body uses energy protecting the injury.

Protoss
Oct 30th, 2009, 10:03 AM
According to the physiotherapists Caro's injury hasn't worsened, Piotr says. The pain yesterday was 'only' cramps. Apparently you get cramps more easily when you're injured because the body uses energy protecting the injury.
Well that's good news I suppose. :)

What was the last match prior to yesterday's match that Caro got cramps in?

kman
Oct 30th, 2009, 10:23 AM
The EB journalist admitted he was wrong now.


So Caroline has to win the match (or Azarenka has to lose hers).



Unfortunately I think it's most likely that Jankovic beats injured/fatigued Caroline and then Azarenka handles Radwanska :(

Damn JJ's luck!

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 11:18 AM
What was the last match prior to yesterday's match that Caro got cramps in?

The last one I can remember was against Chakvetadze in Moscow last year where she also managed to pull through. That was in October as well. I doubt it's a coincidence these cramps have a tendency to sneak up on her at the end of a tough season. :tape:

Jorn
Oct 30th, 2009, 11:37 AM
I also saw on BT web (sporten.dk) they write she needs to win one set today, but one in GM wrote the % so was 56 - 57% in favour Jankovic.

With a injured and tired Caro, against JJ who has not played many sets, the only hope I see is if Aga can win...

Jorn
Oct 30th, 2009, 12:02 PM
If they use only the 3 players still with a chance in the set W/L
and remove the Safina and the ALTs results.

WHITE GROUP:

Azarenka d. Jankovic 6-3, 6-2
Wozniacki d. Azarenka 1-6, 6-4, 7-5
possible JJ d. Woz in 2-1 in sets

Vika 2-0+1-2 = 3-2
Caro 2-1+1-2 = 3-3
Jelena 0-2, 2-1 = 2-3

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 12:25 PM
With a injured and tired Caro, against JJ who has not played many sets, the only hope I see is if Aga can win...

Well, let's hope confidence counts for something as well. Caro has had the far better season of the two and she has won two matches here while JJ has shown nothing yet; she was completely outplayed by Azarenka and was handed a win against Safina. And as for their H2H; their last meeting was more than a year in the past. Caro nearly won then and has improved much since, JJ hasn't.

Wolfruler
Oct 30th, 2009, 12:56 PM
I have confidence in Caro(you should too)...JJ hasnt played well lately! I only hope that JJ doesnt start to act like a primadonna....its simply unbearable!!

Jorn
Oct 30th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Eurosport just now shows Caro-Vera match at 6-0, 6-5* 40-30 Vera hit the net and the ball just lands on the line :eek: what bad luck, had Caroline won in 2 sets much has been better today.

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 30th, 2009, 04:04 PM
A pity, but to be expected. Caroline had nothing left after the 2 marathon 3set drama's.

But hey, she has already won 2 more matches than I had expected and shown some different developments.

Now we have to wait and see what the all dancing and singing Radawanska can do.

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 04:59 PM
Kuznetsova won so Venus advances with 1 win while Caro probably won't advance with 2 wins. Them's the breaks! :rolleyes:

Jorn
Oct 30th, 2009, 05:31 PM
Vika did start well and broke, but now Aga leads 2-1...


Caro just said on ES interview she don't expected to be in the SF, before the tournament did start. 2 wins from a injured player is good!

jasminefu623
Oct 30th, 2009, 05:38 PM
caro is watching aga-vika match, and she has a ice pack on her left harmstring

Jorn
Oct 30th, 2009, 06:08 PM
Azarenka plays much better, I fear no hope Aga can win...


But we need a win, even a tired Caro will get beating badly in possible SF... with her injury and not been able to serve, she said she had today also a stomach muscle pull/injury.

Rui.
Oct 30th, 2009, 07:51 PM
vs Serena in the semis :)

jasminefu623
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:00 PM
is this really good for caro?
by the way, when will the match start tomorrow?

Jorn
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:04 PM
It helped I had already updated (offline) my website with Caro not been in the SEMIs... :o ;)


But can she play tomorrow? and does she get extra points and Prize Money been in the SF?

Rui.
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:15 PM
It helped I had already updated (offline) my website with Caro not been in the SEMIs... :o ;)


But can she play tomorrow? and does she get extra points and Prize Money been in the SF?

no

units13
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Could she be any more adorable? Go Caro!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uELXHTzct5M

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Saturday, October 31
From 14:00 local
Black/Huber v Stosur/Stubbs
Not Before 16:30
V.Williams v Jankovic
Followed by
S.Williams v Wozniacki

At least Caro gets the late match, less heat and more time to rest. And considering she didn't spend too much energy against JJ (she had no energy to spend) she might be in slightly better shape for the SF than she was today. I still think our girl will lose, but hopefully she can make a decent match of it and not aggravate any of her injuries further.

pattty
Oct 30th, 2009, 09:05 PM
You gotta love Aga now lol

I don't expect anything tommorow but stay healthy Caro!

C. W. Fields
Oct 30th, 2009, 09:13 PM
Eurosport has posted a match for those with ES Player to watch; "WTA Champs Doha - Zvonareva vs Azarenka"!

Whau! I didn't know they had played!?! :eek::rolleyes:

And here's how the ponts work for Doha:
Round Robin
P3 W3 L0 = 690
P3 W2 L1 = 530
P2 W2 L0 = 460
P3 W1 L2 = 370
P2 W1 L1 = 300
P1 W1 L0 = 230
P3 W0 L3 = 210
P2 W0 L2 = 140
P1 W0 L1 = 70
SF win = +360
Final win = +450

530 points for Caro so far (and unlikely to gain more). Kuznetsova wins 370 but also loses 210 from last year's YEC. And YEC is mandatory whether it's one of the 16 best results or not. Doesn't that mean Caro will pass Kuznetsova for the no. 3 spot?

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 30th, 2009, 11:34 PM
Caroline will have to play against Serena, but I do not think she will injure herself more, by trying to hard.
Its good she got into the SF anyway, looks good on the CV.

She and Team Wozniacki were totally relaxed when she was loosing the 2nd set with 0 games, they all smiled and looked like they thought it was a big joke when she got her first game.

Good attitude to have, they have accepted that she has got all she can get out of Doha.
She will not get anymore ranking points or money if she looses to Serena so why not take it easy.

Maybe she should play against Serena in a wheelchair, then she will not be too tired for her holiday, and Serena might loose her focus and Caroline might win.

Jorn
Oct 31st, 2009, 02:47 AM
Ithink it a bad idea playing in the Semi Finals, she will lose badly so why risk been more injured... Let Aga or some fresh player, play.


But I don't know, maybe she HAS to try playing? She won't get more points or money lossing tomorrow.

Jorn
Oct 31st, 2009, 03:12 AM
Lørdag skal danskeren nu dyste mod Serena Williams, og her er Wozniacki tvunget til at være helt klar, hvis hun skal kvalificere sig til finalen.

"Jeg skal være 100 procent for at have en chance for at slå hende. Det er helt sikkert. Hun er en god spiller, der spiller aggressivt, og hvis man bare giver hende lidt snor, så tager hun det hele. Så det handler om at komme ind og gøre alt, hvad jeg kan," pointerede Wozniacki.


Caro was not even 50% ready aginst Jelena Jankovic, how do they expect her to be 100% in Saturday's match...

SOA_MC
Oct 31st, 2009, 03:20 AM
After Luxembourg and the two yec matches, you have to seriously wonder what the doctors have been advising Caro to do :scratch:

Caralenko
Oct 31st, 2009, 03:40 AM
Nobody has any faith in Caroline to beat Serena :tears: :lol: Best of luck to her anyway. Don't screw up your leg.

Protoss
Oct 31st, 2009, 03:47 AM
After Luxembourg and the two yec matches, you have to seriously wonder what the doctors have been advising Caro to do :scratch:
Well Caro has sometimes played against medical advice. :shrug:

SOA_MC
Oct 31st, 2009, 05:41 AM
Well Caro has sometimes played against medical advice. :shrug:

Sometimes is how many times?

For the first time I am 110% behind the wta road map. Caro would end her career at age 22 without it

C. W. Fields
Oct 31st, 2009, 08:03 AM
Piotr judges Caro to have 0 chance of winning against Serena. I agree.

Team Wozniacki; please, please, PLEASE learn the lesson from this. Go easy next season so Caroline wont be a cripple again come October.

Protoss
Oct 31st, 2009, 08:23 AM
Sometimes is how many times?

For the first time I am 110% behind the wta road map. Caro would end her career at age 22 without it
I think 3 times, maybe 4.

That doesn't reflect well on Caro. :shrug: I still don't like the roadmap.