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View Full Version : 17-1 on clay this year, is she "Rafinara Nadafina"?


bobbynorwich
May 30th, 2009, 01:51 AM
Dinara's results on the clay this season are 17-1 with impressive performances in Stuttgart, Rome, Madrid, and so far Paris. Is she on the way to being as dominant on clay as Nadal? She clearly has his work ethic, perfectionism, love of clay, and drive for constant improvement. She's not as superior on the surface yet as Nadal, but could she be?

LUVMIRZA
May 30th, 2009, 02:07 AM
No, She has a long way to go. You cant even think about that level rather compare:tape: Nadal jus has to win a US Open to become the GOAT.

delicatecutter
May 30th, 2009, 02:15 AM
Nadal GOAT? :spit:

bobbynorwich
May 30th, 2009, 02:20 AM
The thread isn't about whether Dinara is the GOAT, it's whether she has the potential to become as dominant on clay as Nadal.

delicatecutter
May 30th, 2009, 02:22 AM
Well Sharapova and Dementieva almost beat her on clay last year and Ana was able to take care of her quite efficiently in the RG final last year. I think there's your answer.

RenaSlam.
May 30th, 2009, 02:27 AM
She hasn't even won the French Open yet. :shrug:

Slutiana
May 30th, 2009, 02:28 AM
Well Sharapova and Dementieva almost beat her on clay last year and Ana was able to take care of her quite efficiently in the RG final last year. I think there's your answer.
Thats the past. Now shes number one. Big diff.

MrSerenaWilliams
May 30th, 2009, 02:35 AM
She hasn't even won the French Open yet. :shrug:she's won Roma, Berlin, and Madrid. 3 big titles, but I agree she's not even in HENIN category much less Nadal/Evert territory until she wins the big one.

Lord Choc Ice
May 30th, 2009, 02:36 AM
If she wins the slam, I think this conversation can begin. :) 17-1 is impressive though.

Svetlana.
May 30th, 2009, 02:49 AM
Lets wait and see... she has to win FO first and then we can talk about being great

As of/for this year, yes she's been the best on clay and no one comes even close.

mboyle
May 30th, 2009, 02:52 AM
Simply put, no. Nadal's game is tailor made for clay. He has a heavy, heavy topspin lefty forehand that forces righty opponents to hit super high backhands on the run--physically one of the hardest shots in tennis. The clay exasperates the high bounce of his topspin and also rewards him more for his unusual speed, since he has even more time to get to and then set up his shots, making it near impossible for his opponents to hit winners. Clay has also traditionally masked his big weakness--the serve (particularly the second) since, again, it is harder to hit winning shots on clay, so having a big serve doesn't matter as much (and quick players like Nadal can get to a lot of the second serve returns that would be winners on other surfaces).

Dinara doesn't even move particularly great on the clay. She is comfortable, to be sure, but her game should be better suited for fast surfaces that reward her power.

MrSerenaWilliams
May 30th, 2009, 03:01 AM
Simply put, no. Nadal's game is tailor made for clay. He has a heavy, heavy topspin lefty forehand that forces righty opponents to hit super high backhands on the run--physically one of the hardest shots in tennis. The clay exasperates the high bounce of his topspin and also rewards him more for his unusual speed, since he has even more time to get to and then set up his shots, making it near impossible for his opponents to hit winners. Clay has also traditionally masked his big weakness--the serve (particularly the second) since, again, it is harder to hit winning shots on clay, so having a big serve doesn't matter as much (and quick players like Nadal can get to a lot of the second serve returns that would be winners on other surfaces).

Dinara doesn't even move particularly great on the clay. She is comfortable, to be sure, but her game should be better suited for fast surfaces that reward her power.

brilliantly put.

delicatecutter
May 30th, 2009, 03:05 AM
Oh, and I think she will continue to be dominant on clay and has a great chance to win several RGs. But that's not because she's an excellent clay court player. It's just that the majority of the WTA has no clue how to play on this surface.

tennnisfannn
May 30th, 2009, 03:11 AM
Simply put, no. Nadal's game is tailor made for clay. He has a heavy, heavy topspin lefty forehand that forces righty opponents to hit super high backhands on the run--physically one of the hardest shots in tennis. The clay exasperates the high bounce of his topspin and also rewards him more for his unusual speed, since he has even more time to get to and then set up his shots, making it near impossible for his opponents to hit winners. Clay has also traditionally masked his big weakness--the serve (particularly the second) since, again, it is harder to hit winning shots on clay, so having a big serve doesn't matter as much (and quick players like Nadal can get to a lot of the second serve returns that would be winners on other surfaces).

Dinara doesn't even move particularly great on the clay. She is comfortable, to be sure, but her game should be better suited for fast surfaces that reward her power.
This is where the wta and atp is so different. It never ceases to amaze me when commnetators say the williams power is nullified on clay but it is still power players dominating the surface anyway, Look at Dinara, Ana is a defending champiion

MrSerenaWilliams
May 30th, 2009, 03:12 AM
Oh, and I think she will continue to be dominant on clay and has a great chance to win several RGs. But that's not because she's an excellent clay court player. It's just that the majority of the WTA has no clue how to play on this surface.

Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, and the Willies KNOW how to play, it's just a matter of being consistent on an inconsistent surface (which Henin did EXTREMELY well).

Peterk07
May 30th, 2009, 03:15 AM
Nadal is a natural claycourter while Dina is a hard worker. I really like her, but she is far-far from Nadal's league. I even have the feeling that this great form may come a little too early for her...

delicatecutter
May 30th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, and the Willies KNOW how to play, it's just a matter of being consistent on an inconsistent surface (which Henin did EXTREMELY well).

Venus is only consistent on grass which is forgiving on her wretched technique. Kuznetsova is amaze on clay; she's just a headcase 99% of the time. Serena just plays her game on every surface; it worked out much better for herself on clay when she was 10-20 lbs slimmer. :help:

Dawn Marie
May 30th, 2009, 03:26 AM
Where is the HELL to the No option?

I mean come on, she hasn't even won RG or a slam yet? Her draw so far at RG is weak.

The player to watch is Svetlana imho. She's quietly working her draw and she already beat Safina this year. Watch out for Svetlana. I don't think even Serena will beat her at this RG.
Winning 17 clay matches is great but it sure isn't Nadal like. Not at all.

delicatecutter
May 30th, 2009, 03:28 AM
Where is the HELL to the No option?

I mean come on, she hasn't even won RG or a slam yet? Her draw so far at RG is weak.

The player to watch is Svetlana imho. She's quietly working her draw and she already beat Safina this year. Watch out for Svetlana. I don't think even Serena will beat her at this RG.
Winning 17 clay matches is great but it sure isn't Nadal like. Not at all.

What should we be watching for from Sveta? Yet ANOTHER choke in a Slam SF or F? If she could finally get it together, I would be her biggest cheerleader; I just don't see it happening.

Junex
May 30th, 2009, 03:49 AM
Just a trivia:

Did you know that in her transition year from ITF to WTA in 2002 at a tender age of 16, Dinara was 35 - 4 on Clay with 4 titles 1 being her first/maiden WTA tour title in Sopot (red clay).

Clearly, Dinara was destined to be a great clay court master!

Dawn Marie
May 30th, 2009, 03:50 AM
What should we be watching for from Sveta? Yet ANOTHER choke in a Slam SF or F? If she could finally get it together, I would be her biggest cheerleader; I just don't see it happening.
I know, but when we don't see it happening then that is when she wins. Ana will beat Safina. And then lose to Svetalana. I CAN FEEL IT:):)

I also felt that Serena will win a grandslam this year so who knows??:)

nfl46
May 30th, 2009, 03:52 AM
We'll talk, if she wins RG first.

Junex
May 30th, 2009, 03:53 AM
I know, but when we don't see it happening then that is when she wins. Ana will beat Safina. And then lose to Svetalana. I CAN FEEL IT:):)

I also felt that Serena will win a grandslam this year so who knows??:)

She already did..... so whats the deal with your Sveta prediction?

ZeroSOFInfinity
May 30th, 2009, 03:54 AM
Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, and the Willies....

Boy, of all the names you can choose for them.... it's this? :lol:

RenaSlam.
May 30th, 2009, 04:04 AM
Simply put, no. Nadal's game is tailor made for clay. He has a heavy, heavy topspin lefty forehand that forces righty opponents to hit super high backhands on the run--physically one of the hardest shots in tennis. The clay exasperates the high bounce of his topspin and also rewards him more for his unusual speed, since he has even more time to get to and then set up his shots, making it near impossible for his opponents to hit winners. Clay has also traditionally masked his big weakness--the serve (particularly the second) since, again, it is harder to hit winning shots on clay, so having a big serve doesn't matter as much (and quick players like Nadal can get to a lot of the second serve returns that would be winners on other surfaces).

Dinara doesn't even move particularly great on the clay. She is comfortable, to be sure, but her game should be better suited for fast surfaces that reward her power.

She should be -- however, she has such loopy strokes and a huge takeback on her groundstrokes (particularly on the forehand side). Grass will always be her worst surface because of this, as she doesn't have the time to compensate.

bobbynorwich
May 30th, 2009, 04:26 AM
Simply put, no. Nadal's game is tailor made for clay. He has a heavy, heavy topspin lefty forehand that forces righty opponents to hit super high backhands on the run--physically one of the hardest shots in tennis. The clay exasperates the high bounce of his topspin and also rewards him more for his unusual speed, since he has even more time to get to and then set up his shots, making it near impossible for his opponents to hit winners. Clay has also traditionally masked his big weakness--the serve (particularly the second) since, again, it is harder to hit winning shots on clay, so having a big serve doesn't matter as much (and quick players like Nadal can get to a lot of the second serve returns that would be winners on other surfaces).

But isn't this all relative to the current women on the tour? No woman has Nadal's heavy lefty topspin, endurance and his exceptional speed, but doesn't Safina come closest? Obviously, Henin was close, but as retired she's not in this conversation.

bobbynorwich
May 30th, 2009, 04:32 AM
Where is the HELL to the No option?

I mean come on, she hasn't even won RG or a slam yet? Her draw so far at RG is weak.

The player to watch is Svetlana imho. She's quietly working her draw and she already beat Safina this year. Watch out for Svetlana. I don't think even Serena will beat her at this RG.
Winning 17 clay matches is great but it sure isn't Nadal like. Not at all.

Good points, Svetlana is the biggest threat to Dinara.

delicatecutter
May 30th, 2009, 04:32 AM
Good points, Svetlana is the biggest threat to Dinara.

An in-form Ana is the biggest threat to Dinara.

unknowndiamond
May 30th, 2009, 05:02 AM
Nadal is a natural claycourter while Dina is a hard worker. I really like her, but she is far-far from Nadal's league. I even have the feeling that this great form may come a little too early for her...

Nadal is natural claycouter,but he also has to work hard for his shit,U can see in his match there no easy point at all, same goes for Safina. Both have unbelievable stamina and extremely fighting spirit. So I must agree that Safina could become as dominant as Nadal and this is the right time for her to do that. Certainly it's still too soon to say but she actually has potential.
I just don't like that nickname for her :rolleyes: it's too hard to spell, why don't just call her Rafara Nadana :lol:

GeeTee
May 30th, 2009, 08:10 AM
Good record (as is only losing 4 games in 3 rounds of RG) but they're two totally different players.

Nadal's the good-looking, charming and universally admired player who's won a heap of Slams.

V's a star
May 30th, 2009, 08:30 AM
I think shed have to do it for about 3 or 4 more years. But with Venus gone I really want DInara to win this. She deserves it jus like she did last year

Olórin
May 30th, 2009, 11:18 AM
An in-form Ana is the biggest threat to Dinara.

An in-form Ana will beat Dinara.

Dinara's run this year reminds me of Petrova's clay streak in 2006 (except without the injury at the FO), at some point, someone of superior quality and mental strength will beat her.

Lucemferre
May 30th, 2009, 11:23 AM
She will never be unbeatable.

Cp6uja
May 30th, 2009, 11:32 AM
If we talking only about this 2009 claycourt season she is very close to Rafa numbers, but trust me Dinadal Srafaina will never deserve enough to be called Rafinara Nadafina!

Lapaco
May 30th, 2009, 11:57 AM
Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, and the Willies KNOW how to play, it's just a matter of being consistent on an inconsistent surface (which Henin did EXTREMELY well).

delusional much? they cannot be compared with henin on clay.

madmax
May 30th, 2009, 01:02 PM
well, there is an issue comparing men and women players on clay - there are typical claycourters men, who only excel on this particular surface, amongst women there are no such players NOW, who could be dominating on this surface - it's still the big babes and powerful groundstrokes, which are winning them matches: Sharapova neing completely clueless on mud and just returning from serious injury is winning her matches despite tons of UE's and DF's...Men's game is much more diverse and refined, therefore it cannot be compared with women's

bobbynorwich
May 30th, 2009, 01:48 PM
I just don't like that nickname for her :rolleyes: it's too hard to spell, why don't just call her Rafara Nadana :lol:

Good alternate spelling. But first she has to earn it.

:hearts:

Craig.
May 30th, 2009, 01:50 PM
:spit: No.

MrSerenaWilliams
May 30th, 2009, 02:10 PM
delusional much? they cannot be compared with henin on clay.

is English your first language? :confused:

I was saying that while they all know who to play on the surface, Justine's mastery as well as her consistency set her MILES apart from them. :wavey:

Lapaco
May 30th, 2009, 02:14 PM
is English your first language? :confused:

I was saying that while they all know who to play on the surface, Justine's mastery as well as her consistency set her MILES apart from them. :wavey:

It isn't, but that's not what you said. Seems to me you are backpedalling now. It sounded as if it was the mere consistency that set them apart.

bobbynorwich
May 30th, 2009, 05:45 PM
It isn't, but that's not what you said. Seems to me you are backpedalling now. It sounded as if it was the mere consistency that set them apart.

Dinara is not yet as consistent as Rafa, but she's getting there.

mboyle
May 31st, 2009, 12:04 AM
This is where the wta and atp is so different. It never ceases to amaze me when commnetators say the williams power is nullified on clay but it is still power players dominating the surface anyway, Look at Dinara, Ana is a defending champiion

Dinara and Ana actually do hit with considerably more topspin than the sisters, Venus in particular. Ana also (caveat: when playing well) doesn't rely so much on the first ball strike. Not that her ABILITY to construct points is necessarily better than Venus', but she feels more comfortable doing so and thus does it more often. Venus is capable of being patient, but doesn't like it.

Serena's movement on clay is also pretty bad. Venus' is a little better, but Ana's and Dinara's movement is much better.

So yes, all four girls hit hard, but the WAY they hit hard and WHEN they hit hard both vary.

And someone else asked if it was relative, if Dinara could be relatively like Nadal on the WTA. I don't think Dinara is your best bet for clay court queen. She is pretty slow, and doesn't even hit amazing shots on the run, the way say Davenport did to compensate for her lack of speed. There is nothing about Dinara's game that she does better than everyone else on tour, like Serena's serve, Maria's backhand, Ana's forehand, etc. Nothing about Dinara's game makes you go "wow, if that shot is on, no one can touch her." I think Ivanovic could be fairly dominant, because she moves very well on clay, has solid defense, constructs points well, and feels comfortable finishing points with either her forehand or her volleys, but I just don't know that she has the focus and drive needed to be consistently at the top of tennis, nor does she have quite the raw ability of Serena (and Venus to some extent) to show up at a tournament she cares about and just annihilate the field at will.

MaBaker
May 31st, 2009, 12:21 AM
No :spit:

DAVAJ MKirilenko
May 31st, 2009, 01:58 AM
Uhm.. Safina hasn't even won RG and Nadal never lost a match at RG.
If she wins it the next 3 years, we can start talking about it.