PDA

View Full Version : BBC/Eurosport/Sky Sports/ESPN/TTC- Etc - Coverage, Moan Thread !!


Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8

Donny
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Because they are 'too ghetto', as some posters here love to point out. That is, they are the product of poor inner city Black America, rather than the USTA or Middle America, as are 90% of American players.

PlayByPlay
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:22 PM
Being bias is so not cool with theses commentators. At the end of the day the girls are excellent players. I wish they would look on that and nothing else.

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:22 PM
I'm sitting here watching Andy Roddick in a pissing contest with Gonzo and listening to Chris Fowler, Patty Mc, and Brad Gilbert. They are not even trying to make it a secret that they are rooting for the American. Justin Gimelstob, I'm pretty sure, had a set of pom poms during the Isner match.

Why, oh why don't the American commentators do this whenever Serena and Venus are playing? Carillo has called for them to be banned from the sport, and Navratilova coaches all of their opponents from the booth.

Fowler approaches their matches as if he's in amazement that women even play sports, and Patty Mc hates them both and rags on them @ every turn.

It all has to do with how they entered the sport. They snubbed much of the establishment, refused to follow even well meant advise, were considered arrogant (of course I consider it "confident") and on top of all the tearing down of their technique, criticism of their coaches/parents, disdain for their brand of tennis, they still won. ...which, of course, pissed them (the commentators/tennis intelligentsia) off even more, because it made them look wrong.

They've never gotten over that. In fact, the only thing that EVER inoculates the Sisters from continuous scathing denunciation of their game is spurts of dominance. Whenever that occurs the pettiness of picking on them is exposed. However, with one little (or big ;) ) slip up, and it's "all aboard" the "I told you so" train.

Anyhow, that's what I think.

PLP
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Racist Americans

Only Americans are racist? I didn't know that, thanks for the enlightenment.
:tape:

Anyway, there are a variety of reasons that go into the anti-Williamsness of the ESPN group, racism plays a part I am sure, but no way of really knowing that. Though I have to say that it seems to vary from match to match, and they seem to have a greater, more obvious disdain for Serena.

Thkmra
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:33 PM
:rolleyes: do black people ever get tired of pulling the racism card? You aren't slaves anymore, move on. No one owes you anything.

Serious response though just like us the commentators have their favorites and their not so favorites. Just because it is their job to talk in the booth doesn't mean they aren't fans as well. Just because they seem to be supportive of some Americans and not supportive of some other Americans isn't really that big of a deal IMO. They all know these players much more than any of us and have I'm pretty sure conversed with them on numerous occasions. They are free to root for and not root for whoever they damn well please. That is their right as a fan, just as is it any of our rights as fans.

And to top if off, who the hell says just because you are American you have to root for ALL American players?

I hope this wasn't meant to be taken seriously!!:o

Human Nature
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Only Americans are racist? I didn't know that, thanks for the enlightenment.
:tape:

Anyway, there are a variety of reasons that go into the anti-Williamsness of the ESPN group, racism plays a part I am sure, but no way of really knowing that. Though I have to say that it seems to vary from match to match, and they seem to have a greater, more obvious disdain for Serena.


The more sucessful and independant of the two..

PLP
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:42 PM
[/I][/B]


The more sucessful and independant of the two..

True, and more obviously out-spoken as well.

kris719
Jan 24th, 2010, 06:45 PM
what are you smoking? they drool over the williamses

The Witch-king
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:07 PM
I noticed that too and frankly I dont know why. And skin color is too simplistic a reason for that.

Anyway Im shocked Andy won a 5-setter! I thought he was gone after trailing 1-2 in sets! He has a great chance against Cilic in the QF!

and we all know what Roddick in the semifinals means :drool:

LDVTennis
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:13 PM
:lol: And it don't matter. F*ck the reporters. Who cares about them anyway?

At the end of the day, it's a Serena or Venus who are collecting the trophies...while Blake, Andy (like him actually, but still), and the rest are reduced to being chearleaders for Roger and Rafa. It's all good.

Who are you kidding? YOU CARE. YOU CARE more than the rest of us could or should.

soomaal
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:25 PM
:rolleyes: do black people ever get tired of pulling the racism card? You aren't slaves anymore, move on. No one owes you anything.

Serious response though just like us the commentators have their favorites and their not so favorites. Just because it is their job to talk in the booth doesn't mean they aren't fans as well. Just because they seem to be supportive of some Americans and not supportive of some other Americans isn't really that big of a deal IMO. They all know these players much more than any of us and have I'm pretty sure conversed with them on numerous occasions. They are free to root for and not root for whoever they damn well please. That is their right as a fan, just as is it any of our rights as fans.

And to top if off, who the hell says just because you are American you have to root for ALL American players?

Racist prick.

Not all black people have slave forebearers, firstly. Secondly could you be any more lowly! How dare you insinuate that blacks feel that they are owed anything! Your sentiments are typical of those who try to downplay the horrendous nature of phenomena such as the slave trade (and the holocaust if I may add). You disgust me. :explode:

Mods please do something about this poster.:fiery:

LDVTennis
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:26 PM
It all has to do with how they entered the sport. They snubbed much of the establishment, refused to follow even well meant advise, were considered arrogant (of course I consider it "confident") and on top of all the tearing down of their technique, criticism of their coaches/parents, disdain for their brand of tennis, they still won. ...which, of course, pissed them (the commentators/tennis intelligentsia) off even more, because it made them look wrong.

They've never gotten over that. In fact, the only thing that EVER inoculates the Sisters from continuous scathing denunciation of their game is spurts of dominance. Whenever that occurs the pettiness of picking on them is exposed. However, with one little (or big ;) ) slip up, and it's "all aboard" the "I told you so" train.

Anyhow, that's what I think.

For once, I think you are right.

Look in the sky there might be pigs flying over your house today. Beautiful day for it too.

I am of the opinion, however, that this had nothing to do with Venus or Serena being black. The American tennis establishment treats everyone who doesn't fully embrace its protocols this way.

Afraid the only way of getting the better of them is not just winning, but winning pretty. Winning isn't enough to convince the tennis establishment that they are wrong. Winning and proving that they were wrong about your game is the way to do it. See Ivan Lendl. How many consecutive US Open Finals did he make? Yet, the prevailing thought on him still is how ineffective and graceless his game was on grass.

mykarma
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:30 PM
what are you smoking? they drool over the williamses
You're kidding right?

Paneru
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:31 PM
what are you smoking? they drool over the williamses

No, what are you smoking? :tape:

Nicolás89
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:40 PM
I remember between 1997 and 1999 everyone was so drooling over the sisters, I think they never thought they would be that succesful. :lol:

Jolene
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:41 PM
This could show my comparative ignorance of that time period, but I feel like McEnroe, Agassi, and Connors demonstrated more badboy/frat-boy antics than genuine nonconformity. May tie in a bit to gender issues as well there.

Donny
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:42 PM
For once, I think you are right.

Look in the sky there might be pigs flying over your house today. Beautiful day for it too.

I am of the opinion, however, that this had nothing to do with Venus or Serena being black. The American tennis establishment treats everyone who doesn't fully embrace its protocols this way.

Afraid the only way of getting the better of them is not just winning, but winning pretty. Winning isn't enough to convince the tennis establishment that they are wrong. Winning and proving that they were wrong about your game is the way to do it. See Ivan Lendl. How many consecutive US Open Finals did he make? Yet, the prevailing thought on him still is how ineffective and graceless his game was on grass.

To be fair, I'm sure Serena can console herself with the fact that she is the most popular female athlete in America.

Human Nature
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:54 PM
For once, I think you are right.

Look in the sky there might be pigs flying over your house today. Beautiful day for it too.

I am of the opinion, however, that this had nothing to do with Venus or Serena being black. The American tennis establishment treats everyone who doesn't fully embrace its protocols this way.

Afraid the only way of getting the better of them is not just winning, but winning pretty. Winning isn't enough to convince the tennis establishment that they are wrong. Winning and proving that they were wrong about your game is the way to do it. See Ivan Lendl. How many consecutive US Open Finals did he make? Yet, the prevailing thought on him still is how ineffective and graceless his game was on grass.


Still Two well known american ballbashers winners of GS Lyndsays Davenport and Jennyfer Capriaty are loved and praised by this same establishement , so i dont think it's due to their game , but it is a more profund reason..

Thkmra
Jan 24th, 2010, 07:58 PM
For once, I think you are right.

Look in the sky there might be pigs flying over your house today. Beautiful day for it too.

I am of the opinion, however, that this had nothing to do with Venus or Serena being black. The American tennis establishment treats everyone who doesn't fully embrace its protocols this way.

Afraid the only way of getting the better of them is not just winning, but winning pretty. Winning isn't enough to convince the tennis establishment that they are wrong. Winning and proving that they were wrong about your game is the way to do it. See Ivan Lendl. How many consecutive US Open Finals did he make? Yet, the prevailing thought on him still is how ineffective and graceless his game was on grass.

No!! To be of that opinion, which in itself is entirely subjective is not going to cut it. For instance, Seles, who in most cases is considered to be just as dominate and every bit as 'great' as those who preceeded her, is only in single digits in Grandslams with no Real chance too catch those wh wereo ahead of her, stabbing or not. By contrast Serena is alot more crafty and nuanced Seles ever was, but receives far less respect!


There really is no right answer as to the the WS have not 'Risen to the heavens on golden wings', it's a combination of many factors, and YES race has been a huge factor despite what people may say!! Put blankly change is hard! People who cling onto out-dated, archaic traditions will resist that change at any cost, be it playing style, demeanor, approach, and sadly even the physical perception of an individual, and how that stacks up the established norm!!

brickhousesupporter
Jan 24th, 2010, 08:14 PM
For once, I think you are right.

Look in the sky there might be pigs flying over your house today. Beautiful day for it too.

I am of the opinion, however, that this had nothing to do with Venus or Serena being black. The American tennis establishment treats everyone who doesn't fully embrace its protocols this way.

Afraid the only way of getting the better of them is not just winning, but winning pretty. Winning isn't enough to convince the tennis establishment that they are wrong. Winning and proving that they were wrong about your game is the way to do it. See Ivan Lendl. How many consecutive US Open Finals did he make? Yet, the prevailing thought on him still is how ineffective and graceless his game was on grass.

For once you are not being an ass, and I am willing to give some credence to your argument. However I do think race plays a little part in it. Think of it as a synergistic hatred. Non conformism and bravado gets their ire to a certain level, but being black elicits a bigger reaction than would normally occur.

RE: Ivan Lendl. I never understood how the tennis establishment justified their placing of McEnroe above Lendl in the all time greats list. It just proved to me that no matter what people say Majors are still looked at differently, with Wimbledon and the US Open carrying more weight. If not for Roger Federer breaking all of Ivan Lendl's records, you would never hear his name being mentioned. Interestingly, when Lendl retired he completely left tennis behind. I see Venus and Serena doing the same thing when they retire.

Midnight_Robber
Jan 24th, 2010, 08:33 PM
kiwifan - way to break it down. :yeah:

Just a couple of things. MiffedMax is right. It's been said before but is a combination/conflation of factors - not just race, although the latter certainly plays a part. That said, I think it's strange (as Sweetpea mentions) that while James Blake is black, people seem to ignore that he is also biracial. And not all blacks are treated equally - even amongst black people there's sexism, classism and colorism.

Let's put it this way - he's black but not particularly 'dark', he's athletic enough but not physically imposing, he went to Harvard, he ain't "straight out of Compton", he's not 'brash', he's not particularly outspoken about anything, and he clearly wants to be 'one of the boys' on tour. He's no threat to win anything (so far), and he's a man.

I disagree with arguments that the WS outside interests are somehow innately more 'unconventional' than other players who have outside interests or in the case of Sharapova, happens to share almost the EXACT same interests. Seems to me that Sharapova trying to follow a similar path is seen as acceptable or even the norm when *she* does it - but only because somebody else had carve out that path in the first place and take all of the knocks that come with it. When you're the first you tend to get all the criticism.

The other thing is that I see LDV's point about the fear of alternative paths and straying from conventional formulas. (Ivan Lendl who I regard as pioneer with his 'hitting hot'.) He or she has a real point here and this is one of those additional factors.

Yet I also disagree with the idea that the WS are somehow not rooted in tennis because they ignored the USTA system. Look. For all the criticism they receive, they are almost thirty yet they continue to play and have yet to retire. Venus is a member of the player's council. They participate in all sorts of tennis clinics and programs, and events that promote the sport. Unlike most of the top male players they have always played doubles.

While other players skip Olympic tennis - there they are winning medals for their country. Yes, they actually have lives beyond tennis, but don't tell me that they're not committed to or rooted in the sport. I actually don't see how they could be *more* rooted in the sport than they already are, and I think what burns for some of these commentators is that for the time being at least they ARE American tennis, until they get the type of player/s that they actually approve of.

My issue isn't that the American commentators are obliged to 'root' for them - couldn't care less about patriotism/jingoism even it's obvious that they trade in it. I wouldn't care if they were indifferent to the sisters or neutral - but they're not and actively go out of their way to express dislike and disapproval to the point where it's puzzling to say the least.

Bahia
Jan 24th, 2010, 08:36 PM
I really don't understand why people care so much what other people think of their favorites. They aren't harming, preventing, or blocking Venus' or Serena's success in matches, and their words have no bearing on the outcome of their matches.

So what if it's true and they don't like Venus and Serena? :shrug:

dreamgoddess099
Jan 24th, 2010, 08:50 PM
:rolleyes: do black people ever get tired of pulling the racism card? You aren't slaves anymore, move on. No one owes you anything.

Looks like someone has pulled their "Get out of racist's jail free card." You should know better than to play that game, you're guaranteed to lose and make yourself look like an ass in the process.

I'm not black.

Fail, get your ass back in racist's jail SharapovaFTW. You really suck at playing games. I suggest you get several more years of practice, particularly playing the game Life as it seems to be the only way your going to ever get one.



I honestly think that if the Williams sisters would put on their matching blue pinafores and show up at every tournament and gush breathlessly about how tennis is their whole life and not design their own fashion lines and act and do all the other things that make them the WS, SOME of the palpable dislike from the US tennis establishment (including the ESPN announcers) would go away.


Of course, because that would make them controllable and predictable. The real problem that people have with the sisters is that they are different. They look different, that play different, they were taught the game differently, and they do a lot of different projects. Does it bother people that they are powerful blacks, I'm sure on some level. Does it bother people that they didn't follow the written in stone path to being great players, yes on some levels. But what I really think burns a lot of people up about them is that the sisters really like themselves. No matter how much people say they don't like them or how much people talk badly about them, they are still in the sport. Bottom line, those damn Williamses just won't go away.

Human Nature
Jan 24th, 2010, 08:55 PM
I really don't understand why people care so much what other people think of their favorites. They aren't harming, preventing, or blocking Venus' or Serena's success in matches, and their words have no bearing on the outcome of their matches.

So what if it's true and they don't like Venus and Serena? :shrug:


Because there is something very special in the way they dislike these two... , it's not a casual dislike , so the OP is right it should be discussed .

Vlover
Jan 24th, 2010, 08:59 PM
Afraid the only way of getting the better of them is not just winning, but winning pretty. Winning isn't enough to convince the tennis establishment that they are wrong. Winning and proving that they were wrong about your game is the way to do it.
Many posters have made fantastic points that I agree with as this is issue is more complex and nuanced than the simple and silly explanation above.:rolleyes: The establishment recognized that they were wrong but lack the courage to admit it so they try very hard to limit the Sisters success and accomplishments by giving no support. In spite of this they have been unable to stop the Sisters from being the most influential female athletes in the last decade.

They have become the standard bearers for female athletes. How many players are now hitting the gym, improving serves, speed, fitness and athleticism. They have both provided some of the most exciting rivalries in women's tennis and commanded the attention comparable to the men. They have proven to the establishment that you can live complete lives and still do well, while their contemporaries who only focus on tennis take early retirements and make returns. According to your logic the establishment should have a problem with the game style of Lindsay, Jennifer, Monica, Pova, Kim and Roddick then.:tape:

Anyway at this point in their careers there is no question the Sisters are coming up the winners in every way and I'm enjoying every moment especially when the ESPN crew have to swallow their bile.:D Go Venus!:hearts: Go Serena!:hearts:

Melly Flew Us
Jan 24th, 2010, 09:38 PM
:rolleyes: do black people ever get tired of pulling the racism card? You aren't slaves anymore, move on. No one owes you anything.

Serious response though just like us the commentators have their favorites and their not so favorites. Just because it is their job to talk in the booth doesn't mean they aren't fans as well. Just because they seem to be supportive of some Americans and not supportive of some other Americans isn't really that big of a deal IMO. They all know these players much more than any of us and have I'm pretty sure conversed with them on numerous occasions. They are free to root for and not root for whoever they damn well please. That is their right as a fan, just as is it any of our rights as fans.

And to top if off, who the hell says just because you are American you have to root for ALL American players?

well i'm not american but i feel i have the right to do this: :weirdo:

dreamgoddess099
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:01 PM
There really is no right answer as to the the WS have not 'Risen to the heavens on golden wings', it's a combination of many factors, and YES race has been a huge factor despite what people may say!! Put blankly change is hard! People who cling onto out-dated, archaic traditions will resist that change at any cost, be it playing style, demeanor, approach, and sadly even the physical perception of an individual, and how that stacks up the established norm!!

This is the truth, it really can't be said any better than this.:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship: :worship::worship:

PointBlank
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:07 PM
are people not allowed to dislike black people and it not be racist? shit.

they do a damn good job like james blake..oh, but thats because he is half white im sure, you'll say.

southeasts
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:20 PM
are people not allowed to dislike black people and it not be racist? shit.

they do a damn good job like james blake..oh, but thats because he is half white im sure, you'll say.

Great topic and some thoughtful replies!

There are many factors that contributes to the dislike of the Williams sisters – I believe its part racism, sexism and mostly because they are trailblazers – breaking the invisible ceiling.

Regarding Blake being liked, I believe part of the reason he is “accepted” and "acceptable" is because of the thinking amongst some Americans/people which was articulated by Howard Reid when he said “believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama – “a light-skinned African American with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,” and Biden's "articulate black".

This article kind of summarizes and shed some light on why Blake etc is more acceptable - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senator-harry-reids-racial-remarks-truth-studies-critics/story?id=9535416.

This is very sad that this type of thinking still holds true in 2010.

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:22 PM
They were pulling for Rodrick because they know him really well. The reason the commentators don't pull as strongly for the William sisters, I think, is because they don't know them as well.

Also, on the professional level I've found a lot of people who don't like the William sisters. It could just be that most of them don't like the William sisters. A lot of people get turned off by the arrogance. There's nothing wrong with that.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:29 PM
Great topic and some thoughtful replies!

There are many factors that contributes to the dislike of the Williams sisters – I believe its part racism, sexism and mostly because they are trailblazers – breaking the invisible ceiling.

Regarding Blake being liked, I believe part of the reason he is “accepted” and "acceptable" is because of the thinking amongst some Americans/people which was articulated by Howard Reid when he said “believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama – “a light-skinned African American with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,” and Biden's "articulate black".

This article kind of summarizes and shed some light on why Blake etc is more acceptable - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senator-harry-reids-racial-remarks-truth-studies-critics/story?id=9535416.

This is very sad that this type of thinking still holds true in 2010.

Serena once said this about James back in 2003 after she and James won Hopman Cup:
He could run for president because he says all the right things.

southeasts
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:32 PM
... A lot of people get turned off by the arrogance. There's nothing wrong with that.
Arrogant, of course, is a euphemism. What you call arrogance, some people will call it self confidence.

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:35 PM
Arrogant, of course, is a euphemism. What you call arrogance, some people will call it self confidence.

I'm not even necessarilly saying that I thinks it's arrogance, as much as some do. I'm just going by the pro's that I've talked to.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:39 PM
They were pulling for Rodrick because they know him really well. The reason the commentators don't pull as strongly for the William sisters, I think, is because they don't know them as well.


Interesting that you would say that, because Roddick knows the sisters very well and would be the first to tell you what great girls they are. As far as the commentators not knowing them well, as it's been pointed out many times, Pam Shriver used to be Venus's mentor, Mary Jo played with them in FedCup in 1999, and Mary Carillo is great pals and even rooms with Billie Jean at Wimbledon. Everybody knows (well apparently not) how much Venus and Billie adore eachother, so what are the odds that Billie hasn't told Mary a few things about Vee in private?

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:45 PM
Interesting that you would say that, because Roddick knows the sisters very well and would be the first to tell you what great girls they are. As far as the commentators not knowing them well, as it's been pointed out many times, Pam Shriver used to be Venus's mentor, Mary Jo played with them in FedCup in 1999, and Mary Carillo is great pals and even rooms with Billie Jean at Wimbledon. Everybody knows (well apparently not) how much Venus and Billie adore eachother, so what are the odds that Billie hasn't told Mary a few things about Vee in private?

I'm also not on the band wagon that they all hate the WS. I'm sure billie has said nice things, but that doesn't automatically make you like and enjoy someone's game.

In terms of Mary Jo and fed cup, I know she's been disappointed with them that they haven't played, but I don't think she hates them.

It's a little silly to jumble all of the commentators together and say they are all anti-williams :lol:

Midnight_Robber
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:45 PM
They were pulling for Rodrick because they know him really well. The reason the commentators don't pull as strongly for the William sisters, I think, is because they don't know them as well.

Also, on the professional level I've found a lot of people who don't like the William sisters. It could just be that most of them don't like the William sisters. A lot of people get turned off by the arrogance. There's nothing wrong with that.

Again, yet another seemingly plausible, 'reasonable' explanation that doesn't actually hold up under closer scrutiny.

1.) If you're really suggesting that commentators root for players that they know really well? Seriously, they're professional commentators. They've got no business 'rooting' for anyone in the commentary box for one thing. Even if you're correct, how is heavily favouring the players that you personally know an acceptable or preferable practice to race-based like or dislike? It's still a big problem.

2.) I listen to all sorts of international commentary and I don't hear anywhere near the overt vitriol that you get on ESPN and American commentary.

3.) Your argument about arrogance doesn't wash. Plenty of male athletes are incredibly arrogant (and there are a number of people who can detect Sir Federer's arrogance despite the insistence that he is the perfect gentleman etc.) and yet it seems to be absolutely fine.

Hingis was arrogant, routinely put down other players, and wasn't above being a homophobe - yet, she was affectionately dubbed the "Swiss Miss". Kournikova was blatantly arrogant about her looks and her sponsorship, and the media spent much of its time desperately hoping that she'd win something, anything. Capriati was hardly the girl next door and used to be downright obnoxious in pressers yet despite her 'tude she was loved by the American public. Roddick may be funny and a bit more self-effacing these days, but earlier on it was clear that he (along with American tennis media) regarded himself as the second coming set to dominate tennis. And people ate that up. Even now, he is rude, entitled, arrogant and high-handed towards ball-boys and officials but gets a free pass.

Clearly 'arrogance' (real or perceived) is not the problem here.

It's even clearer to me that "arrogance" is only an acceptable and even attractive quality in *some* players but, for some reason, not others.

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Again, another plausible explanation that doesn't actually hold up under closer scrutiny.

1.) If you're really suggesting that commentators root for players that they know really well? Seriously, they're professional commentators. They've got no business 'rooting' for anyone in the commentary box for one thing. Even if you're correct, how is heavily favouring the players that you personally know and acceptable or preferable practice to race-based like or dislike? It's still a big problem.

2.) I listen to all sorts of international commentary and I don't hear anywhere near the overt vitriol that you get on ESPN and American commentary.

3.) Your argument about arrogance doesn't wash. Plenty of male athletes are incredibly arrogant (and there are a number of people who can detect Sir Federer's arrogance despite the insistence that he is the perfect gentleman etc.) and yet it seems to be absolutely fine.

Hingis was arrogant, routinely put down other yet players, and wasn't above being a homophobe yet she was affectionately dubbed the "Swiss Miss". Kournikova was blatantly arrogant about her looks and her sponsorship, and the media spent much of its time desperately hoping that she'd win something, anything. Capriati was hardly the girl next door and used to be downright obnoxious in pressers yet despite her 'tude she was loved by the American public. Roddick may be funny and a bit more self-effacing these days, but earlier on it was clear that he (along with American tennis media) regarded himself as the second coming.

Clearly 'arrogance' (real or perceived) is not the problem here.
It's even clearer to me that "arrogance" is only an acceptable and even attractive quality in *some* players but, for some reason, not others.

Pat Mac. Brad a lot of the people who were the subject of this thread (before it go moved) all have close ties to Roddick. It's no surprise that they would pull for him, or well come off with an air of pulling for him. I personally think commentators should be objective, but I can understand when personal feelings can seep through.

A lot of players are arrogant, that's definitely true, but some players who display arrogance aren't defined by that arrogance. Serena, for a lot of people, is defined by her arrogance and I think that's the aspect of her personality that turn people off. Venus on the other hand, I don't think has this problem.

I'm not saying there's not some level of hypocrisy here but trying to explain how people feel doesn't always make sense, and it's not always fair :shrug:

tennisbum79
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:56 PM
I'm not even necessarilly saying that I thinks it's arrogance, as much as some do. I'm just going by the pro's that I've talked to.
Who have talked to?

I wouldn't be suprised, if the "pro's" you talked have the same reaction as the population at large.
They are a sub-sample of the population.

An example: Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader and a democrat could not stop himself from giving a backhand compliment to president Obama: he does not speak in negro dialect.
Harry Reid has been around long enough to know what the inference to his stament mean: President Obama is alright, he is not like the rest of them.

That is what some black friends on mine read in the embracing of Blake.
Having said that, it is not Blake's fault. He is just the product of where he grew up.

Olórin
Jan 24th, 2010, 10:57 PM
I'm not even necessarilly saying that I thinks it's arrogance, as much as some do. I'm just going by the pro's that I've talked to.

How many WTA players are you friends with?
Im surprised that many players have the time to follow Serena and Venus' post-match press conferences that closely. :confused:

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:00 PM
How many WTA players are you friends with?
Im surprised that many players have the time to follow Serena and Venus' post-match press conferences that closely. :confused:

When I say pros, I don't mean professional tennis players, but pros as in teaching pros.

Olórin
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:00 PM
Pat Mac. Brad a lot of the people who were the subject of this thread (before it go moved) all have close ties to Roddick. It's no surprise that they would pull for him, or well come off with an air of pulling for him. I personally think commentators should be objective, but I can understand when personal feelings can seep through.

A lot of players are arrogant, that's definitely true, but some players who display arrogance aren't defined by that arrogance. Serena, for a lot of people, is defined by her arrogance and I think that's the aspect of her personality that turn people off. Venus on the other hand, I don't think has this problem.

I'm not saying there's not some level of hypocrisy here but trying to explain how people feel doesn't always make sense, and it's not always fair :shrug:

It's strange you have these perceptions because I had always thought the opposite. Serena is known for being friendly with several players Lindsay D commented once "Serena talks to players in the lockeroom...Venus not so much" - in fact isn't Serena known for her big personality and approachability more than arrogance. I would have thought that more players and commentators know her better than Venus and, Justine, for example who are a bit more introverted and generally less outgoing and friendly.

In fact, that Venus and Serena act and play so differently makes me wonder why commentators still lump together so much when they talk about them.

Olórin
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:02 PM
When I say pros, I don't mean professional tennis players, but pros as in teaching pros.

Oh right, ok.

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:04 PM
It's strange you have these perceptions because I had always thought the opposite. Serena is known for being friendly with several players Lindsay D commented once "Serena talks to players in the lockeroom...Venus not so much" - in fact isn't Serena known for her big personality more than arrogance. I would have thought that more players and commentators no her than Venus and, Justine, for example who are a bit more introverted and generally less outgoing and friendly.

I've never really heard that about Serena :shrug:. Plus, don't Serena fans think Lindsay dislikes the WS too? :lol: I've heard complaints about her as well, so I don't really see why someone would have that perspective.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:07 PM
The funny thing is the sister's fans care more about the tennis establishment's dislike of them than the sisters themselves. Seemingly nothing can erase their pride (although the tennis world and media have tried for years). That's part of the fuel of the detractors IMO. Mary Carillo herself said it best "If you can't beat them, beat them up."

When you really sit and think, what have the sisters done so bad to warrant the hate, slander, and discrediting? Nothing!

Olórin
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:08 PM
I've never really heard that about Serena :shrug:. Plus, don't Serena fans think Lindsay dislikes the WS too? :lol: I've heard complaints about her as well, so I don't really see why someone would have that perspective.

You've never heard that at all, yet you've heard all these negative things almost exclusively...very strange.

And no not all Williams fans think Lindsay hates the WS, in fact I've never heard her be anything but complimentary about them. And Serena has heaps of respect for Lindsay as you can tell from her Australian Open Final speech...and the fact that she said after her loss to Lindsay in L.A 2004 that she was simply outplayed...I've never heard her say that about anyone else.

Arnian
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:12 PM
You've never heard that at all, yet you've heard all these negative things almost exclusively...very strange.

And no not all Williams fans think Lindsay hates the WS, in fact I've never heard her be anything but complimentary about them. And Serena has heaps of respect for Lindsay as you can tell from her Australian Open Final speech...and the fact that she said after her loss to Lindsay in L.A 2004 that she was simply outplayed...I've never heard her say that about anyone else.

Well, I always thought that too, until I started reading otherwise on this forum. I always thought, and still think that Lindsay admires the WS a lot but that's not what you always hear around here :shrug:

tennisbum79
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:13 PM
Pat Mac. Brad a lot of the people who were the subject of this thread (before it go moved) all have close ties to Roddick. It's no surprise that they would pull for him, or well come off with an air of pulling for him. I personally think commentators should be objective, but I can understand when personal feelings can seep through.

A lot of players are arrogant, that's definitely true, but some players who display arrogance aren't defined by that arrogance. Serena, for a lot of people, is defined by her arrogance and I think that's the aspect of her personality that turn people off. Venus on the other hand, I don't think has this problem.

Not only was Johnny Mac arrogant, but he was abusive, consistently regardless of what country he palys in. And yet, he was embrade as typical Irihc kid from New York: they need to foght for themselves to survive.

Jimmyc Connors was also arrogant, bausing line judges, referees, several times in the course of match.
Sampras, in a low key manner, has no respect for lower ranked players.

All these players were embraced they country, from ordianry fans, to TV commentators.
They saw in them the All-American boys, who were motivated and work hard to be the best at their profession: the american drean.


I'm not saying there's not some level of hypocrisy here but trying to explain how people feel doesn't always make sense, and it's not always fair :shrug:
But then you are doing it, or giving them a pass for something more seious then "arrogance".

mykarma
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:13 PM
kiwifan - way to break it down. :yeah:

Just a couple of things. MiffedMax is right. It's been said before but is a combination/conflation of factors - not just race, although the latter certainly plays a part. That said, I think it's strange (as Sweetpea mentions) that while James Blake is black, people seem to ignore that he is also biracial. And not all blacks are treated equally - even amongst black people there's sexism, classism and colorism.

Let's put it this way - he's black but not particularly 'dark', he's athletic enough but not physically imposing, he went to Harvard, he ain't "straight out of Compton", he's not 'brash', he's not particularly outspoken about anything, and he clearly wants to be 'one of the boys' on tour. He's no threat to win anything (so far), and he's a man.

I disagree with arguments that the WS outside interests are somehow innately more 'unconventional' than other players who have outside interests or in the case of Sharapova, happens to share almost the EXACT same interests. Seems to me that Sharapova trying to follow a similar path is seen as acceptable or even the norm when *she* does it - but only because somebody else had carve out that path in the first place and take all of the knocks that come with it. When you're the first you tend to get all the criticism.

The other thing is that I see LDV's point about the fear of alternative paths and straying from conventional formulas. (Ivan Lendl who I regard as pioneer with his 'hitting hot'.) He or she has a real point here and this is one of those additional factors.

Yet I also disagree with the idea that the WS are somehow not rooted in tennis because they ignored the USTA system. Look. For all the criticism they receive, they are almost thirty yet they continue to play and have yet to retire. Venus is a member of the player's council. They participate in all sorts of tennis clinics and programs, and events that promote the sport. Unlike most of the top male players they have always played doubles.

While other players skip Olympic tennis - there they are winning medals for their country. Yes, they actually have lives beyond tennis, but don't tell me that they're not committed to or rooted in the sport. I actually don't see how they could be *more* rooted in the sport than they already are, and I think what burns for some of these commentators is that for the time being at least they ARE American tennis, until they get the type of player/s that they actually approve of.

My issue isn't that the American commentators are obliged to 'root' for them - couldn't care less about patriotism/jingoism even it's obvious that they trade in it. I wouldn't care if they were indifferent to the sisters or neutral - but they're not and actively go out of their way to express dislike and disapproval to the point where it's puzzling to say the least.
this

LeRoy.
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:14 PM
I think a lot of people are pissed at the Williams sisters because they dare to do what they do, the way they want to do it.

tennisbum79
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:19 PM
The funny thing is the sister's fans care more about the tennis establishment's dislike of them than the sisters themselves. Seemingly nothing can erase their pride (although the tennis world and media have tried for years). That's part of the fuel of the detractors IMO. Mary Carillo herself said it best "If you can't beat them, beat them up."

When you really sit and think, what have the sisters done so bad to warrant the hate, slander, and discrediting? Nothing!
Amian would find a way to explain why the sisters are disliked.

Amian will even why it is an exception in the US, when the people despise their own to the benefits foreign players.

There is no other country where this is done.

2moretogo
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:24 PM
The funny thing is the sister's fans care more about the tennis establishment's dislike of them than the sisters themselves. Seemingly nothing can erase their pride (although the tennis world and media have tried for years). That's part of the fuel of the detractors IMO. Mary Carillo herself said it best "If you can't beat them, beat them up."

When you really sit and think, what have the sisters done so bad to warrant the hate, slander, and discrediting? Nothing!

:lol: No, not true. At all.

I am a Roddick fan and the difference in the commentators discussion and overall excitement is completely different. It makes me for one, want to say something. But trust, I am completely ok with the WS winning slams. No matter what anyone says.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:35 PM
arnian and the bs excuses again...:lol: always hilare

see how he says it's arrogance that turns off people, but is given some truly arrogant players like hingis, roddick, annak, j.mac etc...what's the reasoning then??

he says it's because their arrogance keeps them to themselves, yet serena has been regarded by lindsay d. as a very friendly person, and is evident by her twittering back and forth with caro and vika no matter how fiercely she plays them on court...what does he make of that???

"the teaching pros he talked to didn't say that" which obviously makes them more knowledgeable than serena's fellow peers who obviously say she's not the same character that she is on court and is well liked...

dreamgoddess099
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:38 PM
It's strange you have these perceptions because I had always thought the opposite. Serena is known for being friendly with several players Lindsay D commented once "Serena talks to players in the lockeroom...Venus not so much" - in fact isn't Serena known for her big personality and approachability more than arrogance. I would have thought that more players and commentators know her better than Venus and, Justine, for example who are a bit more introverted and generally less outgoing and friendly.

In fact, that Venus and Serena act and play so differently makes me wonder why commentators still lump together so much when they talk about them.

Hingis was the first player I remember hearing say that Serena is very friendly and talks to people. Believe it or not, there once was a time when Serena was described by the commentators as being "funloving." Of course all of the "she's arrogant' bull came after she started stringing slams together. This world has always hated on strong powerful women, it won't end anytime soon.

Well, I always thought that too, until I started reading otherwise on this forum. I always thought, and still think that Lindsay admires the WS a lot but that's not what you always hear around here :shrug: Lindsay and Serena do get along, but even that wasn't always the case. Now Lindsay and Venus, not so much. As many have found out, once you get on Venus's shit list you stay there forever. :lol: It's pretty much legend how Venus and Serena stuck to themselves when they first got on tour. The players didn't go out of their way to greet them, and they in turn didn't go out of their way to greet the other players. That pretty much set the tone for their lives on tour.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 24th, 2010, 11:40 PM
The funny thing is the sister's fans care more about the tennis establishment's dislike of them than the sisters themselves. Seemingly nothing can erase their pride (although the tennis world and media have tried for years). That's part of the fuel of the detractors IMO. Mary Carillo herself said it best "If you can't beat them, beat them up."

When you really sit and think, what have the sisters done so bad to warrant the hate, slander, and discrediting? Nothing!

:confused: really?? i'd think the reason we're on a forum is to talk about such happenings...much like how serena used her blog to talk about how she was treated...

BlameSerena
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Serena~lover in this thread :worship: :lol:

Arnian
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:09 AM
arnian and the bs excuses again...:lol: always hilare

see how he says it's arrogance that turns off people, but is given some truly arrogant players like hingis, roddick, annak, j.mac etc...what's the reasoning then??

he says it's because their arrogance keeps them to themselves, yet serena has been regarded by lindsay d. as a very friendly person, and is evident by her twittering back and forth with caro and vika no matter how fiercely she plays them on court...what does he make of that???

"the teaching pros he talked to didn't say that" which obviously makes them more knowledgeable than serena's fellow peers who obviously say she's not the same character that she is on court and is well liked...

There's a different between liking someone as a person and liking them as a player. Also, I on a personal level could care a less if someone is personable or not in the locker room, or goes out onto the court to make friends.

That matters to some people though, and the WS weren't always as friendly in the lockeroom as Serena has become :shrug:

I just think people are allowed to like and dislike whoever they want, and some people just don't like the WS, like some people don't like Justine. Lets face it, none of them are as popular and lovable as Kim or someone like that :tape:

BlameSerena
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:11 AM
Shitrillo at it again...
Just ban her from WS matches.

archie4
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Shitrillo at it again...
Just ban her from WS matches.

I respectfully disagree. Mary has been quite fair, and even encouraging, to Venus in this match. Venus's play hasn't been exactly stellar, and Mary's commentary has been fine.

Also, Mary Joe is giving very good technical information. Venus would be wise to listen to her advice!

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Shitrillo at it again...
Just ban her from WS matches.

I know at the end of the first set I was like please shut up! :banghead:

Arnian
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:43 AM
I respectfully disagree. Mary has been quite fair, and even encouraging, to Venus in this match. Venus's play hasn't been exactly stellar, and Mary's commentary has been fine.

Also, Mary Joe is giving very good technical information. Venus would be wise to listen to her advice!

She has been, but the vultures are out to get her no matter what she says :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:44 AM
and how did Mary manage to work in soemthing about Henin in this third set? :lol:

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:44 AM
I know at the end of the first set I was like please shut up! :banghead:

what did she say? i'm watching the football game and catching bits and pieces of it on livestream.

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:50 AM
what did she say? i'm watching the football game and catching bits and pieces of it on livestream.

Just the same old 'tired' stories..... for example the 'Get out of Melbourne' story ... now what this has to do with Venus going to the net, your guess is as good as mine... but ... :weirdo:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:55 AM
she's managed to work how jh is the big hitter beater into the match lol

2Black
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:55 AM
There was nothing wrong with the "get out of melbourne" story ... I don't like the lady either but come on son

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 12:57 AM
There was nothing wrong with the "get out of melbourne" story ... I don't like the lady either but come on son

other than she says it EVERY match? like I said, tired... I mean really read twitter, read this board to come up with something new to talk about. :tape:

Arnian
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:00 AM
other than she says it EVERY match? like I said, tired... I mean really read twitter, read this board to come up with something new to talk about. :tape:

She has always rehashed the same stories with every player, for years. :rolleyes:

Get over it, Mary has a lot of great insights into the game, minus the habitual journey down memory lane.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:00 AM
the get out of melbourne has nothing to do with the current match :shrug: neither does jh being the big hitter beater...it's useless things like this that she always brings into commentary that isn't necessary...the only reason why fans of other players don't have a problem is that when she's taking the piss on the ws matches, she's hyping everyone else...and when they are commentating on everyone else's matches they don't keep mentioning useless stories which have nothing to do with the match

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:02 AM
She has always rehashed the same stories with every player, for years. :rolleyes:

Get over it, Mary has a lot of great insights into the game, minus the habitual journey down memory lane.

hence why people hate her commentary...stop rehashing stories and commentate on the current match...that's what commentary is for...if i wanted to hear about yuri taking his last 6 dollars or wimbledon at 17 or get out of melbourne i'd watch the tapes of the first times she said it

doni1212
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:05 AM
:rolls:

His last 6 dollars has been told so many times!!

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:07 AM
She has always rehashed the same stories with every player, for years. :rolleyes:

Get over it, Mary has a lot of great insights into the game, minus the habitual journey down memory lane.

make me. :weirdo:

Dave.
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:07 AM
What's "Get out of Melbourne" about?

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:08 AM
you have to forgive arnian...mary heaps a boatload of praise on his only fave during every match she commentates so it's obviously going to be fine for him

Tennisstar86
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:08 AM
What's "Get out of Melbourne" about?

In 2007 Oracene yelled at FATrena to get out of melborne because the back of the court has melborne written on it and thats where fatrena was playing from... defensively

Arnian
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:10 AM
you have to forgive arnian...mary heaps a boatload of praise on his only fave during every match she commentates so it's obviously going to be fine for him

sigh, that's not why I liker her

I like her, because outside of the annoying stories she tells over and over again, she has the occasional great insights into the game.

She tells the same story about Justine's mom every single time she plays, and it's annoying but it doesn't make me hate the woman.

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:12 AM
What's "Get out of Melbourne" about?

as someone said it was about Serena being too far behind the baseline


Mary was better the 2nd half of the match but then again since Venus was playing better Mary didn't have anything to say... which is fine by me, if only she could be that quiet when Venus is playing like shit. :tape:

Dave.
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:12 AM
In 2007 Oracene yelled at FATrena to get out of melborne because the back of the court has melborne written on it and thats where fatrena was playing from... defensively

:lol: Thanks.

mykarma
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:15 AM
She has always rehashed the same stories with every player, for years. :rolleyes:

Get over it, Mary has a lot of great insights into the game, minus the habitual journey down memory lane.
Not only no, but hell no. Now what?

Stamp Paid
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:16 AM
He said La Ni
:rolls:

saul1333
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:16 AM
Patrick just got tongue tied saying Na's name :lol:

mykarma
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:17 AM
In 2007 Oracene yelled at FATrena to get out of melborne because the back of the court has melborne written on it and thats where fatrena was playing from... defensively
When fatrena came out o Melbourne she kicked everybody's ass that was in her way to the title. :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:18 AM
sigh, that's not why I liker her

I like her, because outside of the annoying stories she tells over and over again, she has the occasional great insights into the game.

She tells the same story about Justine's mom every single time she plays, and it's annoying but it doesn't make me hate the woman.

what great insights?? that the women don't play the same quality as the men?? that the women have poorer footwork than the men?? that the women have serving problems??? what??? mary says nothing that no one here already knows...insight means she's bringing something interesting and new to the table for discussion, which she never does except for comparing women to men, and talking about how poor everyone plays

Arnian
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:24 AM
what great insights?? that the women don't play the same quality as the men?? that the women have poorer footwork than the men?? that the women have serving problems??? what??? mary says nothing that no one here already knows...insight means she's bringing something interesting and new to the table for discussion, which she never does except for comparing women to men, and talking about how poor everyone plays

You do realize, that people who aren't hardcore tennis fanatics, like us, watch tennis on ESPN too right?

I think she has a great understanding of what each players does well and doesn't do well, and yes there are the comparisons to the men's game often (as in the venus match tonight) but that's not all she talks about.

Tennisstar86
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:25 AM
sigh, that's not why I liker her

I like her, because outside of the annoying stories she tells over and over again, she has the occasional great insights into the game.

She tells the same story about Justine's mom every single time she plays, and it's annoying but it doesn't make me hate the woman.

Mary's a BITCH.... and if you like her that makes me question you as a person.... you do know this is the woman who said Monica Seles was milking getting stabbed for everything it was worth? She should have been shut up and taken off the air then, but they leave her around cause shes "one of the boys". She has a reputation for putting down female athletes in general. A lot of self hate IMO

brickhousesupporter
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:26 AM
You do realize, that people who aren't hardcore tennis fanatics, like us, watch tennis on ESPN too right?

I think she has a great understanding of what each players does well and doesn't do well, and yes there are the comparisons to the men's game often (as in the venus match tonight) but that's not all she talks about.

One would also hope that she would not disparage the sport so that those non hard core fanatics could become hard core fanatics. If the so called experts are talking negative about their sport what is to get me to stick around.

Arnian
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:28 AM
Mary's a BITCH.... and if you like her that makes me question you as a person.... you do know this is the woman who said Monica Seles was milking getting stabbed for everything it was worth? She should have been shut up and taken off the air then, but they leave her around cause shes "one of the boys". She has a reputation for putting down female athletes in general. A lot of self hate IMO

That is a nasty statement about Seles. I'm not saying I love her, but I don't mind her :shrug:

Warhol15
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:31 AM
Mary's a BITCH.... and if you like her that makes me question you as a person.... you do know this is the woman who said Monica Seles was milking getting stabbed for everything it was worth? She should have been shut up and taken off the air then, but they leave her around cause shes "one of the boys". She has a reputation for putting down female athletes in general. A lot of self hate IMO


^^ Frankly, this.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:33 AM
you don't seem to know half of the shit mary says about people, yet you tell people here to shut up about their complaints for her....news flash: when you have a whole lot of people around the world complaining for one idiot, then it can't only be the people here who have a problem no??

seles milked her stabbing, ws not affected by sister's death, bashing women's tennis in general...no wonder US children aren't drawn to tennis when they have to sit and listen to her berate tennis all the time and its players...but of course people here just have to get over it

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:35 AM
Arrogant, of course, is a euphemism. What you call arrogance, some people will call it self confidence.
Other's in the past of called it "...uppity" ;) That's basically what Arnian's saying. :rolleyes:

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 25th, 2010, 01:39 AM
For once, I think you are right...

I think it might be time to re-evaluate my opinion to keep this blood feud healthy and strong.

Pureracket
Jan 25th, 2010, 10:31 PM
Pat McEnroe and Vee kept it cordial in the booth last night. Good for them both.

faboozadoo15
Jan 25th, 2010, 10:56 PM
WTF, no Henin vs Petrova?
Shame.

darrinbaker00
Jan 25th, 2010, 11:10 PM
Pat McEnroe and Vee kept it cordial in the booth last night. Good for them both.
Why wouldn't it have been cordial? They are both professionals, you know.

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2010, 11:21 PM
WTF, no Henin vs Petrova?
Shame.
Tennis channel

faboozadoo15
Jan 25th, 2010, 11:33 PM
Tennis channel

Now I'm really regretting my latest move...

oleada
Jan 26th, 2010, 12:02 AM
ugh, I can't believe they're not showing it, not even on ESPN 360 :help:

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2010, 12:18 AM
I'm kind of in the middle wishing this shitastic match was on ESPN... I kind of wish is was so I can bitch when they put their blinders on and pretend like it's a quality match but then again that's why I'm glad it's not on ESPN. :lol:

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2010, 12:24 AM
I'm kind of in the middle wishing this shitastic match was on ESPN... I kind of wish is was so I can bitch when they put their blinders on and pretend like it's a quality match but then again that's why I'm glad it's not on ESPN. :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 26th, 2010, 12:33 AM
Pat McEnroe and Vee kept it cordial in the booth last night. Good for them both.

I think Pat knows not to mess with Vee :armed:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:00 AM
at least the match is gonna be over in 2 points so i won't have to sit through mary drooling all over herself

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:03 AM
That match was shit personified for two sets... :lol:

Szavay #1
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:12 AM
martina talks too much and i could barely hear corina.

jbeacinu
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:14 AM
they better show jie/Maria and NOT the williams sisters doubles

SharapovaFTW
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:16 AM
Chris Fowler is about to vomit on set. What the hell did he eat?

darrinbaker00
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:20 AM
they better show jie/Maria and NOT the williams sisters doubles
Show a Chinese and a Russian instead of two Americans? Yeah, that'll happen. :lol:

saul1333
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:21 AM
Chris: Get me some water :haha:

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:24 AM
Show a Chinese and a Russian instead of two Americans? Yeah, that'll happen. :lol:

:lol: That's funny, but they will show singles over doubles. You know that darrin.

miffedmax
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:45 AM
That they treated us to women's basketball instead of Henin/Petrova.

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:46 AM
That they treated us to women's basketball instead of Henin/Petrova.

I think that Petrova/Henin match would've upset you more! :o

spokenword73
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:46 AM
Pam Shiver has been complaining about players taking too long to serve the entire tournament. She'll probably say something to the chair. :rolleyes:

darrinbaker00
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:46 AM
:lol: That's funny, but they will show singles over doubles. You know that darrin.
They are showing Zheng-Kirilenko now, but that's only because the Williams/Williams doubles match hasn't started yet. Personally, I wish they would show more doubles, especially the Bryans. Most tennis fans are also recreational/club-level tennis players, and most recreational/club-level players play more doubles than singles.

miffedmax
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:48 AM
I think that Petrova/Henin match would've upset you more! :o

Nah. Petrova losing almost makes up for Henin winning.

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:48 AM
They are showing Zheng-Kirilenko now, but that's only because the Williams/Williams doubles match hasn't started yet. Personally, I wish they would show more doubles, especially the Bryans. Most tennis fans are also recreational/club-level tennis players, and most recreational/club-level players play more doubles than singles.

I agree. I wish they would show more doubles as well.

BlameSerena
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:49 AM
^^The Bryans get no love from ESPN unless they are around later in the tourney. We are lucky enough that they show the last game of WS doubles or even the last point for the first few matches.

Thanks goodness for ESPN360.com

darrinbaker00
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:49 AM
That they treated us to women's basketball instead of Henin/Petrova.
You would have much rather preferred that to Henin-Petrova, Max. Trust me.

Natash.
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:50 AM
complaining needs to stop. :lol: Pam won't shut the hell up about it. Won't say anything when Nadal or Sharapova is doing it.

She has said nothing really substantial besides that.

Golovinjured.
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:50 AM
You go, Pam! :rocker2:

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:51 AM
Nah. Petrova losing almost makes up for Henin winning.

but of course but the quality was almost puke worthy.. ;)

FrOzon
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:52 AM
It's not ESPN but German Eurosport. Oliver Fassnacht (my special friend btw) is commentating and at the beginning he told his audience that he'll try pronouncing Zheng Jie's name in the original way (to show respect). Generally, I agree with such an attitude but sometimes it might not be a good idea as some languages are just hard to pronounce if you're not used to it. But to come to the point: Now he's switching all the time between SHANGSHIA - SHUNGSHIA - SHENGSHIA and he doesn't even notice it.:haha::sobbing:

Martian KC
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:52 AM
shriver has something against Kirilenko. I remember all the venom she spewed the day she took out sharapova.

darrinbaker00
Jan 26th, 2010, 01:56 AM
but of course but the quality was almost puke worthy.. ;)
Almost?

Natash.
Jan 26th, 2010, 02:02 AM
:lol: And she does not say anything about Sharapova taking her time.

moby
Jan 26th, 2010, 02:02 AM
Pam Shiver has been complaining about players taking too long to serve the entire tournament. She'll probably say something to the chair. :rolleyes:Didn't she do it once? :tape:

young_gunner913
Jan 26th, 2010, 02:04 AM
Does NO ONE on ESPN check their facts?!

Serena vs. Azerenka in the QF last year... Guess the Sveta match never happened. :o

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 26th, 2010, 02:04 AM
for once i'm happy they decided to come on afterwards :lol: this jie/kiri match is even better to me even though it's a run away score wise for jie

darrinbaker00
Jan 26th, 2010, 02:05 AM
:lol: And she does not say anything about Sharapova taking her time.
That's not true. She called both of them out on it when they played each other in the first round.

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 26th, 2010, 02:16 AM
It's not ESPN but German Eurosport. Oliver Fassnacht (my special friend btw) is commentating and at the beginning he told his audience that he'll try pronouncing Zheng Jie's name in the original way (to show respect). Generally, I agree with such an attitude but sometimes it might not be a good idea as some languages are just hard to pronounce if you're not used to it. But to come to the point: Now he's switching all the time between SHANGSHIA - SHUNGSHIA - SHENGSHIA and he doesn't even notice it.:haha::sobbing:

too funny. :lol:

hankqq
Jan 26th, 2010, 04:51 AM
Dick Enberg :o just everything about him is annoying. He often babbles off-topic and is just completely useless when it comes to tennis knowledge. He's horrible at doing commentary for american football too :lol: I don't know how the hell he ever became successful at doing commentary and for such a long time too :speakles::o can't wait for him to retire. It will make sports viewing so much more enjoyable without this idiot.

Zaragojuju
Jan 26th, 2010, 05:02 AM
was Henin-Petrova on ESPN? I recorded all today but didn't see it? They're showing Kirilenko-Zheng, who gives a shit about that match?

Njay16
Jan 26th, 2010, 05:17 AM
Dick Enberg :o just everything about him is annoying. He often babbles off-topic and is just completely useless when it comes to tennis knowledge. He's horrible at doing commentary for american football too :lol: I don't know how the hell he ever became successful at doing commentary and for such a long time too :speakles::o can't wait for him to retire. It will make sports viewing so much more enjoyable without this idiot.

He really stirs a lot of trouble too :o

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 26th, 2010, 05:18 AM
Its minor but I have a pet peeve on names and it annoys me that AT LEAST daily I hear Dick call Venus....Serena or vice versa.

BlameSerena
Jan 26th, 2010, 07:44 AM
The split screen thing has got to go. I want to watch tennis, not the scores. I can turn on the computer for that. They put up these two small boxes with two different matches as if we can actually see what's going on. It's quite annoying.

Serenita
Jan 26th, 2010, 07:57 AM
agreed. that's so F annoying. u cant even c the balls, i mean what purpose does it have :(

dinhd82
Jan 26th, 2010, 10:51 AM
Dick Enberg :o just everything about him is annoying. He often babbles off-topic and is just completely useless when it comes to tennis knowledge. He's horrible at doing commentary for american football too :lol: I don't know how the hell he ever became successful at doing commentary and for such a long time too :speakles::o can't wait for him to retire. It will make sports viewing so much more enjoyable without this idiot.

Dick is getting so old he often screws up the score and takes him a minute to "check" himself. He also spends time with nonsense trivia that really has nothing to do with the match.

And that also that guy who once in a while does Fluff pieces is also getting on my nerves esp right in the middle of a match he'd take the time to show us his video montage he just created just to get some compliments from the other commentators.

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Dick Enberg :o just everything about him is annoying. He often babbles off-topic and is just completely useless when it comes to tennis knowledge. He's horrible at doing commentary for american football too :lol: I don't know how the hell he ever became successful at doing commentary and for such a long time too :speakles::o can't wait for him to retire. It will make sports viewing so much more enjoyable without this idiot.

He just gets on my nerve talking through the point with some outside gibberish that has nothing to do with the match at hand.

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2010, 04:34 PM
The split screen thing has got to go. I want to watch tennis, not the scores. I can turn on the computer for that. They put up these two small boxes with two different matches as if we can actually see what's going on. It's quite annoying.

Totally agree. :rolleyes: I hate it.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 26th, 2010, 04:54 PM
i think the worst i've ever heard from dick was last year's AO:

returning from the commercial, they have the aerial shot of Aussie land, dick comes on and says: "yarm...you know what that is? that's mary backwards"

:o :tape: :help: :hysteric:

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2010, 05:30 PM
:rolleyes: Yes, he said shazzam backwards when Serena won a point, because she said the Prince was shazzam. :rolleyes:

Arnian
Jan 26th, 2010, 05:33 PM
The split screen is so very annoying. I agree with you guys on that :haha:

BlameSerena
Jan 26th, 2010, 09:02 PM
i think the worst i've ever heard from dick was last year's AO:

returning from the commercial, they have the aerial shot of Aussie land, dick comes on and says: "yarm...you know what that is? that's mary backwards"

:o :tape: :help: :hysteric:

:rolleyes: Yes, he said shazzam backwards when Serena won a point, because she said the Prince was shazzam. :rolleyes:

:rolls::lol::help:

Arnian
Jan 26th, 2010, 09:04 PM
:rolleyes: Yes, he said shazzam backwards when Serena won a point, because she said the Prince was shazzam. :rolleyes:

I thought that was funny :(

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 26th, 2010, 09:16 PM
Dick Enberg :o just everything about him is annoying. He often babbles off-topic and is just completely useless when it comes to tennis knowledge. He's horrible at doing commentary for american football too :lol: I don't know how the hell he ever became successful at doing commentary and for such a long time too :speakles::o can't wait for him to retire. It will make sports viewing so much more enjoyable without this idiot.

you're just begging for a bad rep! I've already warned you
about bad mouthing my Dick! :unsure: anyway, :(:rolleyes:

he's so harmless. :awww:

whatever happened to Tim Ryan I wonder?

woosey
Jan 26th, 2010, 09:38 PM
you're just begging for a bad rep! I've already warned you
about bad mouthing my Dick! :unsure: anyway, :(:rolleyes:

he's so harmless. :awww:

whatever happened to Tim Ryan I wonder?

dick is getting annoying. and, i don't have anything against older folks but he is often confused.

i prefer cliff drysdale.

badrep coming? :cool:

i'll see you in the chat thread....:lol: :p

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 26th, 2010, 10:08 PM
dick is getting annoying. and, i don't have anything against older folks but he is often confused.

i prefer cliff drysdale.

badrep coming? :cool:

i'll see you in the chat thread....:lol: :p

I would NEVER badrep you Woosey. :hearts:

I'm still haen't gotten over being mean to you that one time. :sobbing: :o

woosey
Jan 26th, 2010, 10:27 PM
I would NEVER badrep you Woosey. :hearts:

I'm still haen't gotten over being mean to you that one time. :sobbing: :o

:hearts:

there must be some sort of block...whenever i try to good rep you it says i need to spread it around first. :rolleyes:

woosey
Jan 26th, 2010, 10:34 PM
i posted a thread asking why i can't goodrep oliviasmith.

hankqq
Jan 27th, 2010, 04:25 AM
you're just begging for a bad rep! I've already warned you
about bad mouthing my Dick! :unsure: anyway, :(:rolleyes:

he's so harmless. :awww:

whatever happened to Tim Ryan I wonder?

:kiss: :lol:
i meant every word i said about enberg, and then some :devil:
don't tell me you're a tim ryan fan too? :rolls: :help:

SharapovaFTW
Jan 27th, 2010, 05:20 AM
So no complaints about ESPN basically making injury excuses for Serena when she was getting dismantled and she was down in the match? Then when she starts coming back and playing amazing, nothing? HAHA I get it.

BlameSerena
Jan 27th, 2010, 05:23 AM
^^We've already established the commentators can be clueless. :shrug:
I didn't watch ESPN's coverage of this match though so I can't speak on it.

doni1212
Jan 27th, 2010, 05:38 AM
Well, they were counting her out and talking about how Henin will be so happy about the semi being Li-Azarenka. Oh, and they were talking about how they've never seen Serena being bullied this bad out there and how she has NO answers (Like she was Sharapova with no B game, :rolleyes: )

And then Serena won a game...and then another...and then another...and then another...and each time they started kissing her ass again more and more until the end when they were singing her praises.

So that's the quick summary. But it definitely wasn't as negative as it could've been since Carillo wasn't calling the match. Patrick was a little iffy at times but that's to be expected now ever since Venus put him down last fall, :lol:

BlameSerena
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:12 AM
^^:lol: Thanks for the recap Doni.

G1Player2
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:13 AM
Do you guys notice Carillo hasn't commented on a match since her asinine comments in Round 2? I love it! :hearts:

doni1212
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:14 AM
Yup! Maybe ESPN FINALLY listened to the complaints sent in, :rolleyes:

Thkmra
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:17 AM
Well, they were counting her out and talking about how Henin will be so happy about the semi being Li-Azarenka. Oh, and they were talking about how they've never seen Serena being bullied this bad out there and how she has NO answers (Like she was Sharapova with no B game, :rolleyes: )

And then Serena won a game...and then another...and then another...and then another...and each time they started kissing her ass again more and more until the end when they were singing her praises.

So that's the quick summary. But it definitely wasn't as negative as it could've been since Carillo wasn't calling the match. Patrick was a little iffy at times but that's to be expected now ever since Venus put him down last fall, :lol:

typical:rolleyes:

Martian KC
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:17 AM
Uhhh Mary was commentating last nite.

Oh I have one. Someone just shriver the fuck up when she's on the sidelines.
There's a reason why you're on the sidelines. Only speak when you're given the que. You're not a part of the booth commentators. STFU!

Serenita
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:20 AM
Uhhh Mary was commentating last nite.

Oh I have one. Someone just shriver the fuck up when she's on the sidelines.
There's a reason why you're on the sidelines. Only speak when you're given the que. You're not a part of the booth commentators. STFU!

:lol::lol:

BlameSerena
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:25 AM
:rolls:

ESPN is a circus.

Mary has been commentating but not for Serena's matches.

Pam is on my good side b/c she stuck up for Serena.

pokey camp
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:27 AM
Glad Mary wasn't in the booth. I don't need that level of interpersonal drama from the commentator, it's just too much. But I was NOT happy to see PMac instead. He should never call wta. Never. Hate his snide comments about women's tennis. So damn condescending. I'd prefer MJ + Pam and no sideline reporter.

Edinboro
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:41 AM
I really don't see a problem with any of the commentators. I think some of you are too picky.

hankqq
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:45 AM
Glad Mary wasn't in the booth. I don't need that level of interpersonal drama from the commentator, it's just too much. But I was NOT happy to see PMac instead. He should never call wta. Never. Hate his snide comments about women's tennis. So damn condescending. I'd prefer MJ + Pam and no sideline reporter.

agree :lol: though Drysdale is ok too imo :shrug:

saul1333
Jan 27th, 2010, 06:57 AM
They put Azarenko on the day's summary..

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 27th, 2010, 07:13 AM
Do you guys notice Carillo hasn't commented on a match since her asinine comments in Round 2? I love it! :hearts:

Exactly.

There were a lot of people that said it would do no good to write in and complain, but I think Denise was right. I think it was effective - not just from this site, but clearly others were complaining as well.

Also, didn't it seem like Serena was very warm and kind with Pam in the post match interview. Perhaps Serena got wind of Pam's words with Carillo the other day. :shrug:

WtaTour4Ever
Jan 27th, 2010, 07:20 AM
Does anyone know why this match isn't on espn360 as part of the day seesion (the link goes right into the second set of the fed match)....I'm dying to watch it.

Serenita
Jan 27th, 2010, 07:25 AM
I really dont care for any of them. they always keep talking during rallies. i mean Shut the fuck up!! i remember Virgina Wade she was great, and that old English geezer, they had atleast some repsect for my faves. now i have the always condesending Carillo...........spear me the drama

barboza
Jan 28th, 2010, 01:44 AM
Girl you are not going to a cocktail party!!

mauresmofan
Jan 28th, 2010, 02:03 AM
You don't know what she's got planned for later

hankqq
Jan 28th, 2010, 02:09 AM
who cares? :shrug: :lol: she looks beautiful :hearts:

WowWow
Jan 28th, 2010, 02:26 AM
You don't know what she's got planned for later

:lol:

gmokb
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:21 AM
I didn't see her, any pocture?

Serenita
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:28 AM
she looked good to me.

GracefulVenus
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:28 AM
Whatever, Mary Jo is so freakin hot!

darrinbaker00
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:56 AM
Girl you are not going to a cocktail party!!
Mary Joe's husband is Roger Federer's agent, you know. Perhaps the two couples are going out for dinner and drinks after Mary Joe's done working.

SharapovaFTW
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:58 AM
Thread worthy? :rolleyes:

SelesFan70
Jan 28th, 2010, 05:07 AM
Mary Carillo needs to be fired. Immediately. She has no awareness of the state of the game. She talks to hear herself talk. I hate her. I really do.

Denise4925
Jan 28th, 2010, 03:59 PM
Do you guys notice Carillo hasn't commented on a match since her asinine comments in Round 2? I love it! :hearts:

Yes. :D

Denise4925
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:02 PM
Exactly.

There were a lot of people that said it would do no good to write in and complain, but I think Denise was right. I think it was effective - not just from this site, but clearly others were complaining as well.

Also, didn't it seem like Serena was very warm and kind with Pam in the post match interview. Perhaps Serena got wind of Pam's words with Carillo the other day. :shrug:

Thanks for the shout-out DF. :hug:

I think Serena was just spent and exhausted after that match and a little pissed at how poorly she played. I don't think it was directed at Pam, per se.

Vlover
Jan 28th, 2010, 04:28 PM
Exactly.
There were a lot of people that said it would do no good to write in and complain, but I think Denise was right. I think it was effective - not just from this site, but clearly others were complaining as well.
Like the expert LDV who claimed he was an intern at ESPN.:lol: ESPN are not fools, tv live and die by the rating numbers and if enough people complain they will make adjustments. The numbers have also prove that Serena is like Tiger woods when it comes to ratings on the women side therefore they don't want to mess with that. I hope we will be fortunate not to have her do the finals also but I doubt it.:tape: I hope Serena comes out strong and lay it all on the line then we will have mainly golden silence from Carillo.:D

Szavay #1
Jan 28th, 2010, 10:03 PM
mjf is a sweet person but she gets on my nerves sometimes cause she always wants to say the perfect thing when sometimes there's nothing really to say. :shrug:

RVD
Jan 28th, 2010, 10:44 PM
Like the expert LDV who claimed he was an intern at ESPN.:lol: ESPN are not fools, tv live and die by the rating numbers and if enough people complain they will make adjustments. The numbers have also prove that Serena is like Tiger woods when it comes to ratings on the women side therefore they don't want to mess with that.:haha: Yeah. LDV has been proven wrong on so many occassions, I almost feel sorry for the guy. :tape:
I hope we will be fortunate not to have her do the finals also but I doubt it.:tape: I hope Serena comes out strong and lay it all on the line then we will have mainly golden silence from Carillo.:DPLEASE...PLEASE, no Carillo for the Final.
If that happens, I'm switching to webTV streaming. :(

I too hope that Serena comes out energized and all business.
I so want a thrilling win from her. :cool:

Mrs. Peel
Jan 28th, 2010, 11:13 PM
Like the expert LDV who claimed he was an intern at ESPN.:lol: ESPN are not fools, tv live and die by the rating numbers and if enough people complain they will make adjustments. The numbers have also prove that Serena is like Tiger woods when it comes to ratings on the women side therefore they don't want to mess with that. I hope we will be fortunate not to have her do the finals also but I doubt it.:tape: I hope Serena comes out strong and lay it all on the line then we will have mainly golden silence from Carillo.:D

Serena = GOAT ratings :worship:

Thkmra
Jan 29th, 2010, 03:46 AM
Serena = GOAT ratings :worship:

Goat-tastic:yeah:

SharapovaFTW
Jan 29th, 2010, 03:54 AM
Like the expert LDV who claimed he was an intern at ESPN.:lol: ESPN are not fools, tv live and die by the rating numbers and if enough people complain they will make adjustments. The numbers have also prove that Serena is like Tiger woods when it comes to ratings on the women side therefore they don't want to mess with that. I hope we will be fortunate not to have her do the finals also but I doubt it.:tape: I hope Serena comes out strong and lay it all on the line then we will have mainly golden silence from Carillo.:D

A friend of mine works as a camera man for ESPN, and basically from what he has said ESPN 99% of the time is going to do what they want and they do have their own agenda at times. Why? Because they don't have any competition and know the people who are fine with what they are producing far out weigh the small group that gripes over a few little things. Take it for what it is worth, but that is straight from his mouth.

Thkmra
Jan 29th, 2010, 08:03 AM
A friend of mine works as a camera man for ESPN, and basically from what he has said ESPN 99% of the time is going to do what they want and they do have their own agenda at times. Why? Because they don't have any competition and know the people who are fine with what they are producing far out weigh the small group that gripes over a few little things. Take it for what it is worth, but that is straight from the horse's mouth.

Had to edit that;) they may have little competition, but when no one is tunning in, best believe executives get nervous, agenda or not!!

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 29th, 2010, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the shout-out DF. :hug:

I think Serena was just spent and exhausted after that match and a little pissed at how poorly she played. I don't think it was directed at Pam, per se.
Credit where credit's due, Baby! ;)
Like the expert LDV who claimed he was an intern at ESPN.:lol: ESPN are not fools, tv live and die by the rating numbers and if enough people complain they will make adjustments. The numbers have also prove that Serena is like Tiger woods when it comes to ratings on the women side therefore they don't want to mess with that. I hope we will be fortunate not to have her do the finals also but I doubt it.:tape: I hope Serena comes out strong and lay it all on the line then we will have mainly golden silence from Carillo.:D
Unfortunately, that's the only way we can be treated to the silence of Mary Carillo.

I'd be shocked if the took her off the final too, but there is no doubt in my mind that she was pulled from doing Serena's matches after her scathing attack.

Uranium
Jan 29th, 2010, 09:31 AM
Brad Gilbert's head is so far up Murray's ass:lol: He picks Murray to win in 5 and for the Who has the Advantage chart with all the strokes, he found a way to give more to Murrary:spit: 14 to Murray and 12 for Federer:lol:

Thkmra
Jan 29th, 2010, 10:04 AM
Brad Gilbert's head is so far up Murray's ass:lol: He picks Murray to win in 5 and for the Who has the Advantage chart with all the strokes, he found a way to give more to Murrary:spit: 14 to Murray and 12 for Federer:lol:

:shrug: seems right to me..Murray has the advantage!!

treufreund
Jan 29th, 2010, 10:06 AM
Brad Gilbert's head is so far up Murray's ass:lol: He picks Murray to win in 5 and for the Who has the Advantage chart with all the strokes, he found a way to give more to Murrary:spit: 14 to Murray and 12 for Federer:lol:

Thank God that P-Mac is there to calmly talk some common sense. Gilbert wants to have Murray's babies it seems.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 29th, 2010, 11:13 AM
A friend of mine works as a camera man for ESPN, and basically from what he has said ESPN 99% of the time is going to do what they want and they do have their own agenda at times. Why? Because they don't have any competition and know the people who are fine with what they are producing far out weigh the small group that gripes over a few little things. Take it for what it is worth, but that is straight from his mouth.

you think that in a day where people can turn off the tv and just find a stream on the internet that espn wouldn't be bothered because "they have no competition" :spit: web streaming is ALWAYS competition even if you have no other tv stations competing with :lol: and I wouldn't trust a camera man with news of what the executive thinks lol...clearly if you are the only network with a show and people still don't watch you then you are still losing no? :lol:

Vlover
Jan 29th, 2010, 01:40 PM
you think that in a day where people can turn off the tv and just find a stream on the internet that espn wouldn't be bothered because "they have no competition" :spit: web streaming is ALWAYS competition even if you have no other tv stations competing with :lol: and I wouldn't trust a camera man with news of what the executive thinks lol...clearly if you are the only network with a show and people still don't watch you then you are still losing no? :lol:
I would file that camera man story the same way I did for LDV intern story as:bs: Make no mistake that TV ratings are paramount and no good producer is going to let anyone mess with it. I have no doubt if you check the ratings for the women's matches Serena is the highest draw.

saul1333
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Brad Gilbert's head is so far up Murray's ass:lol: He picks Murray to win in 5 and for the Who has the Advantage chart with all the strokes, he found a way to give more to Murrary:spit: 14 to Murray and 12 for Federer:lol:

Gimelstob is all the way up Murray's ass. He has an orgasm every time he makes a passing shot. And in between points he can't help but say what a complete player he is :rolleyes: It's true love :drool:

Denise4925
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:34 PM
A friend of mine works as a camera man for ESPN, and basically from what he has said ESPN 99% of the time is going to do what they want and they do have their own agenda at times. Why? Because they don't have any competition and know the people who are fine with what they are producing far out weigh the small group that gripes over a few little things. Take it for what it is worth, but that is straight from his mouth.

Well, judging from how they've treated this incident, there was more than a "small group" of people griping. :lol:

Denise4925
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:41 PM
you think that in a day where people can turn off the tv and just find a stream on the internet that espn wouldn't be bothered because "they have no competition" :spit: web streaming is ALWAYS competition even if you have no other tv stations competing with :lol: and I wouldn't trust a camera man with news of what the executive thinks lol...clearly if you are the only network with a show and people still don't watch you then you are still losing no? :lol:

These were my thoughts. That they have competition on the computer with the live streams. People don't have to watch ESPN.

I would file that camera man story the same way I did for LDV intern story as:bs: Make no mistake that TV ratings are paramount and no good producer is going to let anyone mess with it. I have no doubt if you check the ratings for the women's matches Serena is the highest draw.

True that. They realize that the majority of the people watching Serena are her fans. Even if you're not a fan, the frenzied rant that Mary went on, was disturbing to even the tennis fan who is not necessarily a fan of Serena's. At least that's what I was reading from the commentary on the ESPN website.

Arnian
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:45 PM
These were my thoughts. That they have competition on the computer with the live streams. People don't have to watch ESPN.



True that. They realize that the majority of the people watching Serena are her fans. Even if you're not a fan, the frenzied rant that Mary went on, was disturbing to even the tennis fan who is not necessarily a fan of Serena's. At least that's what I was reading from the commentary on the ESPN website.


I like Mary a lot and even to me the murder thing was ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Every time they roll that US Open semi tape I get so annoyed.

I just know they're going to rehash a bunch of old stories tonight. I swear if I hear about Justine's mom again tonight, I'm going to stab someone :haha:

Monirena Wiles
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:49 PM
True that. They realize that the majority of the people watching Serena are her fans. Even if you're not a fan, the frenzied rant that Mary went on, was disturbing to even the tennis fan who is not necessarily a fan of Serena's. At least that's what I was reading from the commentary on the ESPN website.
This is proof that speaking up does work. We came together and sent emails and complaints and from that moment on Carillo has not done a single Serena match. :worship:

Denise4925
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:50 PM
This is proof that speaking up does work. We came together and sent emails and complaints and from that moment on Carillo has not done a single Serena match. :worship:

:yeah:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:52 PM
don't tell that to LVD or sharapovafan :lol:

Arnian
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:53 PM
This is proof that speaking up does work. We came together and sent emails and complaints and from that moment on Carillo has not done a single Serena match. :worship:

don't tell that to LVD or sharapovafan :lol:

Still don't know if she's doing the final though yet, guess that will show if it worked or not :haha:

Donny
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:53 PM
A friend of mine works as a camera man for ESPN, and basically from what he has said ESPN 99% of the time is going to do what they want and they do have their own agenda at times. Why? Because they don't have any competition and know the people who are fine with what they are producing far out weigh the small group that gripes over a few little things. Take it for what it is worth, but that is straight from his mouth.

This is myopic. They may not have any competition as far as tennis broadcasting i nthe US, but their ultimate goal is to get viewers to sell ads and justify the subscription price they demand from cable and satellite services.

If even a few hundred thousand people stopped watching over the course of these two weeks, tennis would no longer be profitable- especially considering how much they pay to the AO and the ITF for broadcasting rights. It'd make more sense to air college basketball or other sports.

Trust me, everything they do they do based on viewership.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Still don't know if she's doing the final though yet, guess that will show if it worked or not :haha:

she probably will...since it's only her/mj/pam unless they decide to stick to female/male and female courtside :shrug: or female/female cahill/brad courtside

Arnian
Jan 29th, 2010, 07:59 PM
she probably will...since it's only her/mj/pam unless they decide to stick to female/male and female courtside :shrug: or female/female cahill/brad courtside

I wonder if it will be Chris Fowler with her again :devil:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 29th, 2010, 08:02 PM
heavens not the two of them again...last year during the finals they both berated women's tennis and kept comparing it to men's tennis :o

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 29th, 2010, 08:21 PM
Still don't know if she's doing the final though yet, guess that will show if it worked or not :haha:
No, I think what's shown it has worked is her not having done a Serena match since those foolish comments and viewer responses.

They could have easily said, "SINCE, Mary, you're going to be doing the final match no matter who it is, let's pull you over to the other side of the draw until then, to have a little 'cooling period'". I might very well be the ESPN is contractually obligated to Mary for the finals. It might be that they didn't see the comments as severe enough to pull her from the finals, but figured a "cooling period" would suffice.

So, it's definitely already "worked." Now the question is 'to what degree.'

btw Arnian, for what it's worth, I appreciate you comments about your disposition towards Serena as it relates to being a fan. For me, you've cleared that up, and you'll get no more hassle from me about that. I'll take you at your word here that it was an honest miscalculation of how being called a "Serena fan" is interpreted around here by MANY (not all) actual Serena fans. I have no doubt that you like/admire Serena (I'm sure more than I do Juju), but when it comes to loyalties, they're with Juju. I get it. It sounds a lot like the way I feel about Maria. I like her quite a bit. I like her game, her fight, how self possessed she is...etc, etc, but when it comes to comparing her to Serena (or Venus, for that matter), I'll throw her under the bus EVERY TIME. :lol: It wouldn't be cool with a lot of Maria fans if I go around calling myself a Maria fan only to belittle and trash her when she goes up against one of her biggest rivals.

Arnian
Jan 29th, 2010, 08:28 PM
No, I think what's shown it has worked is her not having done a Serena match since those foolish comments and viewer responses.

They could have easily said, "SINCE, Mary, you're going to be doing the final match no matter who it is, let's pull you over to the other side of the draw until then, to have a little 'cooling period'". I might very well be the ESPN is contractually obligated to Mary for the finals. It might be that they didn't see the comments as severe enough to pull her from the finals, but figured a "cooling period" would suffice.

So, it's definitely already "worked." Now the question is 'to what degree.'

btw Arnian, for what it's worth, I appreciate you comments about your disposition towards Serena as it relates to being a fan. For me, you've cleared that up, and you'll get no more hassle from me about that. I'll take you at your word here that it was an honest miscalculation of how being called a "Serena fan" is interpreted around here by MANY (not all) actual Serena fans. I have no doubt that you like/admire Serena (I'm sure more than I do Juju), but when it comes to loyalties, they're with Juju. I get it. It sounds a lot like the way I feel about Maria. I like her quite a bit. I like her game, her fight, how self possessed she is...etc, etc, but when it comes to comparing her to Serena (or Venus, for that matter), I'll throw her under the bus EVERY TIME. :lol: It wouldn't be cool with a lot of Maria fans if I go around calling myself a Maria fan only to belittle and trash her when she goes up against one of her biggest rivals.

:hug: thank you very much doublefist! I can say the same for you now after this very nice post.

That's a good point that you made about the final and mary, I just hope for you guys that she isn't that bad. I've started to notice different things from the commentators now that you guys have lodged your complaints.

It's basically that way with Serena and I too, except my close friends and family who like tennis are big WS fans, so I try to be nice :devil:

Vlover
Jan 29th, 2010, 08:34 PM
don't tell that to LVD or sharapovafan :lol:
That poor thing LDV is still stuck in the 80-90's. He has no idea that a decade has passed since and we are starting a new one.:lol: He needs to get out of the basement more.

As for Carillo, if who she wants to win isn't winning she proceeds to tell you what a pile of shit match you have been watching. She says or does nothing to support women's tennis therefore I don't understand why she calls the matches.:tape:

Rocketta
Mar 14th, 2010, 10:48 PM
If Tracy and this guy doesn't get off of Maria's tit in this match I'm going to scream! :shout:

Who is that guy anyway? I love (sarcastically) how he says this isn't an endorsement then calls out all of Maria's endorsements.. :rolleyes:

oh and someone tell Tracy that Maria is not in the top ten yet... she may make it back there but she hasn't yet.


























ok, now I feel a little better. :p

Uranium
Mar 14th, 2010, 10:49 PM
It's Tracy Austin, she is permanently attached to Maria's tit, as you say.

Uranium
Mar 14th, 2010, 10:55 PM
Also, I have a problem with them acting like all Jie has going for herself is her speed when she is hanging in there with Maria groundstroke wise and moving her around.

thrust
Mar 14th, 2010, 10:58 PM
He was just telling it, like unfortunately, it is. It is absurd that Maria makes so much money off the court, which probably is due to her being a big blond lady. Tracy is a Maria fan, but she is telling how Maria's game has deteriorated the past couple years.

Serena y Monica
Mar 14th, 2010, 10:59 PM
So glad u brought it up. Tracy w/the Maria deserves endorsements...WHAT? But at least were watching women's tennis

matty
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:01 PM
different commentators:

http://www.sportprovider.info/2010/03/jie-zheng-maria-sharapova-live.html

Rocketta
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:09 PM
So glad u brought it up. Tracy w/the Maria deserves endorsements...WHAT? But at least were watching women's tennis

that was actually funny! Tracy almost sounded defensive... :lol:

Rocketta
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:10 PM
different commentators:

http://www.sportprovider.info/2010/03/jie-zheng-maria-sharapova-live.html


rather watch on my flat screen and bitch and moan about the commentators. :lol:

Serena y Monica
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:13 PM
that was actually funny! Tracy almost sounded defensive... :lol:

I know right..."She deserves it"..."she's worked hard"...lol!

Rocketta
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:23 PM
I know right..."She deserves it"..."she's worked hard"...lol!

I know.... someone needs to tell Tracy all players work hard... :lol:

delicatecutter
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:26 PM
Tracy is unbearable calling Sharapova matches. Whoever is calling this with her makes me feel like I could have a career in sports broadcasting. :tape:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:27 PM
Yeah, I hate listening to Tracy when Sharapova, or the Williamses play. She's all up Sharapova's hole, and does anything she can to tear down the Williamses

#1SteffiGraf#1
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:30 PM
Tracy-

"Maria is looking to be even better than before and win another grandslam"

I just dont think she will ever be as good as she was in 2005-08

delicatecutter
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:34 PM
I am so irritated they couldn't be bothered to learn how pronounce Zheng correctly. :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:42 PM
Tracy is unbearable calling Sharapova matches. Whoever is calling this with her makes me feel like I could have a career in sports broadcasting. :tape:

He is pretty bad... :help:

Zamboni
Mar 14th, 2010, 11:59 PM
I've turned this into a general complaints thread for tv coverage/commentators/etc

Rocketta
Mar 15th, 2010, 12:00 AM
danka :hatoff:

Rocketta
Mar 15th, 2010, 12:02 AM
In general how long after an injury and a comeback will commentators still talk about pre-injury? :confused:

Serena y Monica
Mar 15th, 2010, 12:31 AM
Omg...Maria's movement reminds her of Nadal...now she's trying to walk it back...Guess she knows how redicules she sounded.

Serena y Monica
Mar 15th, 2010, 12:32 AM
In general how long after an injury and a comeback will commentators still talk about pre-injury? :confused:

LOL...apparently 1-2 years:o

Rocketta
Mar 15th, 2010, 12:56 AM
Omg...Maria's movement reminds her of Nadal...now she's trying to walk it back...Guess she knows how redicules she sounded.

I like how she jinxed her by saying she never misses the swinging volley and then of course she misses one. :lol:

Serena y Monica
Mar 15th, 2010, 12:56 AM
Is Austin about to cry...

Rocketta
Mar 15th, 2010, 01:05 AM
Is Austin about to cry...

probably.. :tape:

Aaron.
Mar 15th, 2010, 01:26 AM
So yeah I just payed the extra 20$ a month to get Tennis Channel. :)

Probally wont be eating this month though :o

Slammer7
Mar 15th, 2010, 04:07 AM
So yeah I just payed the extra 20$ a month to get Tennis Channel. :)

Probally wont be eating this month though :o

Twenty dollars? :speakles: What cable company or Satelite provider do you have? I pay about 5 dollars and I get NBA TV and Fox college sports and CSTV and a few other college and outdoor sports channels, that I actually watch and like. You are getting jipped/robed bigtime. :tape: :sad: :hug:

brickhousesupporter
Mar 15th, 2010, 04:09 AM
So yeah I just payed the extra 20$ a month to get Tennis Channel. :)

Probally wont be eating this month though :o

That is a rip off......Comcast charges 5 dollars extra. and you get the sports tier package.

darrinbaker00
Mar 15th, 2010, 04:13 AM
So yeah I just payed the extra 20$ a month to get Tennis Channel. :)

Probally wont be eating this month though :o
Twenty dollars a month? You're getting hosed.

duhcity
Mar 15th, 2010, 04:20 AM
10 dollars on Fios. You should cancel your subscription.

serenafann
Mar 15th, 2010, 05:23 PM
I like how she jinxed her by saying she never misses the swinging volley and then of course she misses one. :lol:

:haha: :haha:

Vlover
Mar 15th, 2010, 05:43 PM
In general how long after an injury and a comeback will commentators still talk about pre-injury? :confused:
In Pova's case, obviously every time she loses a match.:fiery: When the Sisters came back from their respective injuries in '04 and did poorly there was hardly a thought or mention of their injuries before their careers were considered to be over and no one "fears" them anymore.:rolleyes: Fortunately for us they were able to prove otherwise. Let's see if Pova is capable of a come back.;)

Uranium
Mar 16th, 2010, 10:45 PM
"Mariana Alves is not going to overrule a ball on the other side of the court":lol::lol::lol:. Oh Tracy.

Edinboro
Mar 17th, 2010, 12:53 AM
20 dollars a month is ridiculous. I pay only 3.95 a month.

Edinboro
Mar 17th, 2010, 12:53 AM
20 dollars a month is ridiculous. I pay only 3.95 a month.

WowWow
Apr 16th, 2010, 01:59 AM
^^ :haha:

edificio
Apr 16th, 2010, 06:56 AM
Luckily, the stream showed Oudin/McHale without commentary. It was nice to watch sans blather.

Marilyn Monheaux
Apr 16th, 2010, 07:51 AM
ES is showing Caro-Petrova instead of JJ-Dani. Scandalous.:o

C. W. Fields
Apr 16th, 2010, 08:52 AM
The reason Caro gets mentionned a lot on this forum is the fact that the majority of posters DOES NOT like watching her play. They don't appreciate her game or just prefer another style of play and find her matches incredibly boring. It's not because we're that interested in her -> BUT EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

In other words, we DO NOT want all of her matches on TV/streams, so it would be nice if you would refrain from wasting what feels like EVERY single tv/stream slot (which are so few and far inbetween nowadays btw...) with her matches. Please change it up here and there!!!


You're lucky, there's a brillantly simple solution to your problem; if all the Caro bashers would stop writing time and time again how much they deplore her game the number of Caro-related threads/posts would drop dramatically. Then, if the tv guys actually watch this and other tennis forums, they might decide it's time to show other matches than just Caro's. :cheer:

Even better; stop watching her matches altogether! Low ratings is certainly something the tv channels DO understand! :yeah:

Josh.
Apr 16th, 2010, 08:59 AM
ES is showing Caro-Petrova instead of JJ-Dani. Scandalous.:o

Really!? Oh for fuck sake.

TennisFan66
Apr 16th, 2010, 09:00 AM
Yes, what does TV people know about TV. What does WTA know about rankings. What does anyone know about anything tennis related, you cannot find better advice/knowledge about on TF :)

British ES will be showing QF #2 and #3: Caro Vs Petrova, followed by Peng Vs Sammy. Programme starts 6:10PM UK Time.

TennisFan66
Apr 16th, 2010, 09:03 AM
You're lucky, there's a brillantly simple solution to your problem; if all the Caro bashers would stop writing time and time again how much they deplore her game the number of Caro-related threads/posts would drop dramatically. Then, if the tv guys actually watch this and other tennis forums, they might decide it's time to show other matches than just Caro's. :cheer:

Even better; stop watching her matches all-together! Low ratings is certainly something the tv channels DO understand! :yeah:

Funny thing is, when you suggest this to the Carophobics, they always want to watch 'the other girl' :lol: ..

Marilyn Monheaux
Apr 16th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Yes, what does TV people know about TV. What does WTA know about rankings. What does anyone know about anything tennis related, you cannot find better advice/knowledge about on TF :)

British ES will be showing QF #2 and #3: Caro Vs Petrova, followed by Peng Vs Sammy. Programme starts 6:10PM UK Time.

This isn't about questioning the TV people's knowledge of their stuff, but fans being unhappy with their decisions or the situation in general.
While I understand that ES Germany can't show JJ's match because of contractual obligations concerning the broadcast of handball matches, I'm still upset about it and this is a thread about complaints, no?


Funny thing is, when you suggest this to the Carophobics, they always want to watch 'the other girl' :lol: ..

Are you implying that these people are being dishonest? Hate to break it to you, but it's not all about Sunshine.:lol:

Ingokoer
Apr 16th, 2010, 12:48 PM
What a stupid Order of play made by the tournament staff. Sorry for Stosur or Peng fans, but why the hell they schedule such a low matchup for the TV session? Jankovic - Hantuchova is a much stronger lineup in my eyes.

Showing Wozniacki - Petrova is right, but they should have scheduled Jankovic - Hantuchova right after that for the second TV match.

sammy01
Apr 16th, 2010, 03:15 PM
Funny thing is, when you suggest this to the Carophobics, they always want to watch 'the other girl' :lol: ..

maybe people also love green clay and this is there only chance to see it in the year, or charleston is their fave tournament. or heaven forbid they are a tennis fan, not just a caro stan like yourself, and just wanna watch good quality imaginative tennis that caro sadly lacks.

Slutiana
Apr 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM
maybe people also love green clay and this is there only chance to see it in the year, or charleston is their fave tournament. or heaven forbid they are a tennis fan, not just a caro stan like yourself, and just wanna watch good quality imaginative tennis that caro sadly lacks.
Of course that isn't true! It's just insanity to even think like that, what a terrible post you crazy bastard! These people are just here to moan about the WTA and hate on Caroline, that's all. How could you even think otherwise? Well I never!

Uranium
Apr 16th, 2010, 04:48 PM
I'd rather watch Oudin-Zvonareva or Hantuchova-Jankovic than Wozniacki-Petrova:o The first 2 have the potential to be great matches, Wozniacki-Petrova has the potential to be a snore like it was in IW with tons of errors:yawn:
Shocked ESPN ISN'T showing Melanie:o

C. W. Fields
Apr 16th, 2010, 04:58 PM
The Danish ES commentator says they'll be transmitting the last part of Jankovic-Hantuchova after the football news.