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Apoleb
Jan 21st, 2010, 01:42 AM
ABC Sports used to receive thousands of angry letters every week about Howard Cosell, but did they get rid of him? Of course not; all those letters did was let them know that there were people watching. The only language TV executives understand is the ratings numbers, and that will never change.

Another thing that will never change is biased tennis commentary, because as long as there has been tennis on television, there have been tennis announcers with a conflict of interest. Donald Dell would often be in the booth when both players on the court were clients of his. Tony Trabert and Arthur Ashe never excused themselves when their Davis Cup players were on the court, and neither did Billie Jean King when she was Fed Cup captain. More than any other sport, tennis has been guilty of breaking the unwritten "broadcaster objectivity" rule, and it will probably always be that way. You can either continue to let it frustrate you, or you can accept/overlook it and enjoy the tennis. I choose the latter.

OK, but I do want to write a letter about Rapheeyel Nodol. :fiery:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 01:44 AM
ABC Sports used to receive thousands of angry letters every week about Howard Cosell, but did they get rid of him? Of course not; all those letters did was let them know that there were people watching. The only language TV executives understand is the ratings numbers, and that will never change.

Another thing that will never change is biased tennis commentary, because as long as there has been tennis on television, there have been tennis announcers with a conflict of interest. Donald Dell would often be in the booth when both players on the court were clients of his. Tony Trabert and Arthur Ashe never excused themselves when their Davis Cup players were on the court, and neither did Billie Jean King when she was Fed Cup captain. More than any other sport, tennis has been guilty of breaking the unwritten "broadcaster objectivity" rule, and it will probably always be that way. You can either continue to let it frustrate you, or you can accept/overlook it and enjoy the tennis. I choose the latter.

Such a pessimistic/defeatist attitude. I'm glad MLK and the rest of the Civil Rights leaders and participants didn't feel that way about Jim Crow and segregation. Otherwise, we'd still be in the back of the bus with you commenting on how happy you are to have a ride.

I say nothing is impossible.

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 01:45 AM
Kim is extremely popular, and this whole WS fan hatred of all the commentators is getting old

Go tell this to your fellow Justine fans and Elena's fans in the Bodo thread. :wavey:

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 01:51 AM
Such a pessimistic/defeatist attitude. I'm glad MLK and the rest of the Civil Rights leaders and participants didn't feel that way about Jim Crow and segregation. Otherwise, we'd still be in the back of the bus with you commenting on how happy you are to have a ride.
Yes, because the two situations are SO comparable..... :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 01:57 AM
Yes, because the two situations are SO comparable..... :rolleyes:

I knew you'd say that, but theoretically, they are not that far off. Of course segregation was far worse and far more grave than tennis commentators, but it's not the situation, it's the attitude that you have that puts shivers down my spine. From your stupid suggestion of switching the TV off or changing the channel, to your pessimism about the entire situation is sad, because it's obvious you have a problem with people fighting for what is right and what they are entitled to have, regardless of if it's successful or not. You don't give up because you think you're fighting a losing battle to begin with. I'm the type of person not to give up before trying. My mother used to say, nothing beats a tryer but a failure. It may not be grammatically correct, but I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase.

pov
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:04 AM
They're up anyone's ass who they think can beat Serena and Venus.
:haha: Get over it! That's crap.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:12 AM
Go tell this to your fellow Justine fans and Elena's fans in the Bodo thread. :wavey:

I don't really see bashing of every commentator in that thread :confused::confused:


On a side note, i do get irritated with the commentators obsession with Kim, especially pam shriver.

However, I sum it up to Kim just being an overall exciting and nice person. Yet, I think at the same time it puts an unfair measure against Serena and Justine (as an example) because people expect them to be just as nice and friendly as Kim.

Well, not everyone is friendly and happy go lucky all the time. I'm happy the commentators like Kim a lot, but don't expect everyone to be the same way.

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:12 AM
I knew you'd say that, but theoretically, they are not that far off. Of course segregation was far worse and far more grave than tennis commentators, but it's not the situation, it's the attitude that you have that puts shivers down my spine. From your stupid suggestion of switching the TV off or changing the channel, to your pessimism about the entire situation is sad, because it's obvious you have a problem with people fighting for what is right and what they are entitled to have, regardless of if it's successful or not. You don't give up because you think you're fighting a losing battle to begin with. I'm the type of person not to give up before trying. My mother used to say, nothing beats a tryer but a failure. It may not be grammatically correct, but I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase.
I fight for things that I think are worth fighting for, De. As I've stated earlier, as long as the announcers are factually accurate, pronounce the players' names correctly and, most importantly, KEEP QUIET WHILE THE BALL IS IN PLAY, they're cool with me. You obviously are dead wrong disagree with me. No problem.

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:18 AM
I fight for things that I think are worth fighting for, De. As I've stated earlier, as long as the announcers are factually accurate, pronounce the players' names correctly and, most importantly, KEEP QUIET WHILE THE BALL IS IN PLAY, they're cool with me. You obviously are dead wrong disagree with me. No problem.

As do I darrin. Obviously, because we are different people, we don't place the same value on the same things we think are worth fighting for. The problem is, that everything you've stated that is cool with you, is NOT TRUE of the ESPN commentators. :lol: That's what makes your statement so laughable to me, but whatever. You are wrong as usual are entitled to your opinion.

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:25 AM
As do I darrin. Obviously, because we are different people, we don't place the same value on the same things we think are worth fighting for. The problem is, that everything you've stated that is cool with you, is NOT TRUE of the ESPN commentators. :lol: That's what makes your statement so laughable to me, but whatever. You are wrong as usual are entitled to your opinion.
I don't disagree with you on that point, De, but I don't let that interfere with my enjoyment of the matches. You, Rocketta and countless others on this board clearly do, and for the life of me, I can't understand why.

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:34 AM
I don't disagree with you on that point, De, but I don't let that interfere with my enjoyment of the matches. You, Rocketta and countless others on this board clearly do, and for the life of me, I can't understand why.

Well, we've tried to explain it to you, but obviously it's not working. So, I can't help you with that. :shrug:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:35 AM
I'm in.

I just want you to know Midnight, that I didn't miss this. I just got distracted. Well, that's two of us. I hope more people who feel the same will commit.

Midnight_Robber
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:40 AM
Darrinbaker - it's irrelevant whether you understand or not - it's not as if *your* understanding of a complaint magically validates it or suddenly makes it legitimate, anymore than your lack of understanding invalidates what people are saying.

And ESPN doesn't pronounce names properly OR keep quiet when the ball is in play. :rolleyes: Hence the complaint. Denise has an activist mindset, you have a 'consumer choice' mindset. Different strokes...

However, I sum it up to Kim just being an overall exciting and nice person.

:lol:Really?

Well, if sugar sweet's your taste that's fine, but frankly I think Justine has the more exciting, aggressive, varied, dynamic game of the two and she's the better player. The commentators grudgingly respect her only because she's forced them to. And yes, I saw Kim pushing against Tamarine Tanasugarn - and the only genuinely exciting player out on court that day was Tammy who was dictating play not that you'd know it if you were relying on the commentary for information. :rolleyes: And hey Tammy is also incredibly popular in the locker room and has had amazing longevity and commitment to the sport without the faux-retirements and drama etc. And all of this without any ridiculous fawning.

And Kim having a cute child is nice and all - but you know what? Lots of people have them. Again, I don't find it particularly exciting when commentators pore over someone's personal life on a sports channel which is irrelevant to the actual tennis. Save that for the lifetime channel. (Feel the same when they bring up the WS family tragedy for the umpteenth time or Justine's hard life, Ivanovic practicing in the swimming pool, or Maria going to States with Yuri's last ten roubles. Don't need to hear over and over...and over again. It's cheap, tacky and exploitative.)

Commentate on the match please.

Her USO run was a real story and definitely deserved attention, but why do I get the feeling that even *if* she fell off for the rest of the year - or God forbid went back to being Justine's whipping girl this time next year we will still be hearing about Kim's miracle run?

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:46 AM
And Kim having a cute child is nice and all - but you know what? Lots of people have them. Again, I don't find it particularly exciting when commentators pore over someone's personal life on a sports channel which is irrelevant to the actual tennis. Save that for the lifetime channel. (Feel the same when they bring up the WS family tragedy for the umpteenth time or Justine's hard life, Ivanovic practicing in the swimming pool, or Maria going to States with Yuri's last ten roubles. Don't need to hear over and over...and over again. It's cheap, tacky and exploitative.)

Commentate on the match please.

Exactly. Sick, sick, sick to death of it.

Her USO run was a real story and definitely deserved attention, but why do I get the feeling that even *if* she fell off for the rest of the year - or God forbid went back to being Justine's whipping girl this time next year we will still be hearing about Kim's miracle run?

Well, we'll be hearing about it till Kingdom come. Even after she really retires. :rolleyes:

Junex
Jan 21st, 2010, 03:00 AM
Why with all the whining about commentators, you all should pass your resume to ESPN and apply for it? or better yet fly all the way to Australia and watch the match live!
Its pathetic crying over it iver and over and over when bottom line is you can't do anything about it than what i have already suggested above... Well maybe if you're rich enough just buy the whole damn establishment and fire all of these commentators asses... other than that... Y'all are just childish whiners!!!!!

Vyacheslavovna
Jan 21st, 2010, 03:03 AM
I don't know what its like elsewhere, but for big football matches the BBC have a function where you can turn off the TV commentary and listen to the BBC radio commentary while watching the game, or turn off the commentary altogether and just have the pictures and the crowd noise.

You live in America, not communist Russia! Pro-choice.

There is something about tennis commentary, especially when its men doing a women's match, "This ass-clown doesn't have a FUCKING clue!!!"

That's you Mats Willander.

Midnight_Robber
Jan 21st, 2010, 03:09 AM
I don't know what its like elsewhere, but for big football matches the BBC have a function where you can turn off the TV commentary and listen to the BBC radio commentary while watching the game, or turn off the commentary altogether and just have the pictures and the crowd noise.

You live in America, not communist Russia! Pro-choice.

There is something about tennis commentary, especially when its men doing a women's match, "This ass-clown doesn't have a FUCKING clue!!!"

That's you Mats Willander.

a.) Sounds like a nice option but not possible on my old TV set that's for sure.

B.) Assumptions much? I don't live in the U.S.

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 03:10 AM
Darrinbaker - it's irrelevant whether you understand or not - it's not as if *your* understanding of a complaint magically validates it or suddenly makes it legitimate, anymore than your lack of understanding invalidates what people are saying.
Actually, it is as if all of the above.
And ESPN doesn't pronounce names properly OR keep quiet when the ball is in play. :rolleyes: Hence the complaint.
I never claimed they did.
Denise has an activist mindset, you have a 'consumer choice' mindset. Different strokes...
Yes, and my stroke happens to be the correct one. ;)

ghost world
Jan 21st, 2010, 03:11 AM
Yes, derailing conversation that doesn't hold your interest is such a classy move, Junex. :o :help:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 03:46 AM
Yes, derailing conversation that doesn't hold your interest is such a classy move, Junex. :o :help:

:worship::worship::worship:

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:10 AM
Pam and Mary Joe just dissected every little thing that is wrong with Venus's game in only the second game of the match. Pam shriver even said Venus is just an average player and from the sound of it they made it seem like Venus has the worse serve in women's tennis :rolleyes: Unwatchable.

saul1333
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:11 AM
Little cat fight between Mary Jo and Pam :lol:

Rocketta
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:11 AM
And Kim having a cute child is nice and all - but you know what? Lots of people have them.

I just want to say her child is NOT cuter than mine... so I agree. :lol:

Also, someone explain to me why Darrin and Junex don't practice what they preach starting with this thread.. ?? :scratch:

Potato
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:12 AM
I think Pam said that Venus was very average at the baseline. Which is kinda half true I guess. But yeah, I watch with the volume off D:

Pops Maellard
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:12 AM
:lol: Like those eternal bridesmaids know shit.

Mynarco
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:12 AM
I use Eurosport player, 5 pound and I can watch tennis with NO commentator :p
love it.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:12 AM
Darrinbaker - it's irrelevant whether you understand or not - it's not as if *your* understanding of a complaint magically validates it or suddenly makes it legitimate, anymore than your lack of understanding invalidates what people are saying.

And ESPN doesn't pronounce names properly OR keep quiet when the ball is in play. :rolleyes: Hence the complaint. Denise has an activist mindset, you have a 'consumer choice' mindset. Different strokes...



:lol:Really?

Well, if sugar sweet's your taste that's fine, but frankly I think Justine has the more exciting, aggressive, varied, dynamic game of the two and she's the better player. The commentators grudgingly respect her only because she's forced them to. And yes, I saw Kim pushing against Tamarine Tanasugarn - and the only genuinely exciting player out on court that day was Tammy who was dictating play not that you'd know it if you were relying on the commentary for information. :rolleyes: And hey Tammy is also incredibly popular in the locker room and has had amazing longevity and commitment to the sport without the faux-retirements and drama etc. And all of this without any ridiculous fawning.

And Kim having a cute child is nice and all - but you know what? Lots of people have them. Again, I don't find it particularly exciting when commentators pore over someone's personal life on a sports channel which is irrelevant to the actual tennis. Save that for the lifetime channel. (Feel the same when they bring up the WS family tragedy for the umpteenth time or Justine's hard life, Ivanovic practicing in the swimming pool, or Maria going to States with Yuri's last ten roubles. Don't need to hear over and over...and over again. It's cheap, tacky and exploitative.)

Commentate on the match please.

Her USO run was a real story and definitely deserved attention, but why do I get the feeling that even *if* she fell off for the rest of the year - or God forbid went back to being Justine's whipping girl this time next year we will still be hearing about Kim's miracle run?

I find Justine to be much more interesting obviously too, but I know some people find Kim to be more personable and likable.

I think a lot of the commentators like Justine, it just depends which one you're talking about lol.

The rehashing of personal stories annoys the shit out of me, when I used to follow Jennifer a lot, I couldn't go a match without hearing about her come back. Even into 2004, they talked about it every single time still.

Yet, most of the commentators I really like, especially Mary C, MJF, Drysdale, Chris F, and I love Johnny Mac.
The only one who annoys me really is Pam Shriver

CrossCourt~Rally
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:12 AM
Little cat fight between Mary Jo and Pam :lol:


^^ That was hilarious :haha:

treufreund
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:13 AM
Mary jo was being a passive-aggressive drama queen. Pam was 100% right about Venus playing best when her intent is to move forward.

Rocketta
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:13 AM
yes, and I loved Chris Fowler suggesting that Venus would retire at the end of the year based on the whispers he's heard... like they even have any sources that know anything about Venus or Serena... :lol:

njtennis17
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:13 AM
I actually enjoyed their commentary, I can't say they were too far off in any of their comments. Maybe a bit harsh, but I enjoyed it.

NyCPsU
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:15 AM
I would agree with everything Pam said to be honest. :shrug:

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:15 AM
I actually enjoyed their commentary, I can't say they were too far off in any of their comments. Maybe a bit harsh, but I enjoyed it.
Like I dont mind the comments much, but for almost 10 min the same thing OVER AND OVER, while there is a LIVE match that theyre suposedly suppose to be commentating. It's like a broken record, if you want to talk about her game for that long maybe wait AFTER the match.

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:16 AM
:lol: Like those eternal bridesmaids know shit.
They know more than you ever will, that's for sure.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:16 AM
People are way too damn sensitive about critique from commentating, get over it :rolleyes:

Pops Maellard
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:17 AM
They know more than you ever will, that's for sure.
I wasn't, like, serious. :weirdo:

njtennis17
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:18 AM
Like I dont mind the comments much, but for almost 10 min the same thing OVER AND OVER, while there is a LIVE match that theyre suposedly suppose to be commentating. It's like a broken record, if you want to talk about her game for that long maybe wait AFTER the match.

I guess, but there's not much to talk about in this match. Bammer will probably hit 4 winners all match, and it will be all on Venus as usual.

Wtrain
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:18 AM
I've never seen them tear a player down like that before, for that long of a period.

Serenita
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:20 AM
its getting boring at ESPN. its always the same old tune.

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:21 AM
I would agree with everything Pam said to be honest. :shrug:
I lean more towards Pam's point of view as well, but Mary Joe had a good point. Venus is obviously more successful when she comes forward, but you do need a solid groundstroke base to work your way up to the net. You can't just wildly charge forward behind any old shot. When the conversation's that good, I can forgive them for talking while the ball was in play. This time. ;)

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:22 AM
I wasn't, like, serious. :weirdo:
Of course you weren't.

DimaDinosaur
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:24 AM
why are other williams fans so caught up on what other people say about their players. Seriously, pathetically insecure 100% all the time, I swear :rolleyes:

Stamp Paid
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:28 AM
I dont even like Venus, but they were throwing a lot of shade at her.

nfl46
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:31 AM
Just wow at those two comments. I hope Vee's mom hear them and goes to punch both of them for talking reckless about her daughter. I understand its their job, but they are taking it tooooo far!

Justin SW
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:32 AM
Honestly, I have to agree to were talking about Venus as if she was 300 in the juniors and was trying to breakthrough but somethin was missing in her game. I mean she won 7 slams and made about 7 other slam finals :o
:lol:

njtennis17
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:32 AM
I'd much rather listen to them critique Venus and watch her, than have to watch Young vs. Hewitt (which they've swtiched to), with Cliff Drysdale and Darren Cahill who will without question go crazy for Hewitt the entire time.

jefrilibra
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:35 AM
Critique is great but this incessant ranting was really over the top.

dragonflies
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:37 AM
You can watch the match live on espn360.com. There are 2 guys commentating on this match fairly unbiased. Venus was playing tentatively at the beginning, then get better and getter. Winning the st set 6-2 is pretty good, considering Bammer playing so good in this match now, totally different with the way she played last time against Jankovic at the US 08(?).

Don't bother listening to Pam and MJ. Being Americans, the way the bash their top country players was just pathetic and unprofessional. They are up their with the backstabbing snobs.

Apoleb
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:37 AM
Leave Venus and her game alone! :hysteric:

Dominic
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:45 AM
I actually thought it was a nice and interesting discussion.

LeonHart
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:49 AM
Lay off Pammy. She's awesome! Pammy >>> Mary Joe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mary Carillo

Williams 123
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:52 AM
II would agree with everything Pam said to be honest. :shrug:

I agree, venus is a mess. Watch her lose now. But don't get it twisted. Baby, venus is still head and shoulders better than that loser n your avatar.

dragonflies
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:57 AM
why are other williams fans so caught up on what other people say about their players. Seriously, pathetically insecure 100% all the time, I swear :rolleyes:
This is a message board. Posters come here to post anything that is tennis related. If you dont like the topic, dont post. Just simple as that.

The arbitrary commentating of these comentators are over the top and annoying. That's their opinion and they have proofs to back it up, unlike you. It's be better to keep this board clean if you go bash people who boast about their faves illogically, then bashsing fans who defend their faves under attacking. Hope you are able to distiguish what is the disgusting here.

edificio
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:00 AM
This is a message board. Posters come here to post anything that is tennis related. If you dont like the topic, dont post. Just simple as that.


Hear, hear.

What I really don't care for in the commentary booth is a lot of "s/he should do this...blah...blah...blah." It is too easy to be an expert in a booth. Also, they talk way too much, drowning out the match, cutting to interviews, other match summaries, etc., when all I want is to watch the match and make my own analysis.

Tennisstar86
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:05 AM
yeah...that cat fight was funny to me because Mary Jo called out Pam basically for not knowing what she was talking about anyways.... ignore pam There are some great rallies points in this match.

I love later she was talking about Venus just doesnt want to change refusing to use the challenge system...... just a stubborn oldie..... maybe shes not desperate for the win like some people.... (AKA Fed who only uses it when hes losing, but talks down on it when hes wining)

honduran
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:06 AM
Is Venus not wearing any undewear? when she bent down I could have sworn that I saw her behind:eek:

venusallday
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:08 AM
Ima about to send someone to slap Pam and Mary! This venus'-so-stubborn talk is quite unnecessary. They don't know her life.

Marilyn Monheaux
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:08 AM
Is Venus not wearing any undewear? when she bent down I could have sworn that I saw her behind:eek:

Venus going commando?:cool:

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:10 AM
Is Venus not wearing any undewear? when she bent down I could have sworn that I saw her behind:eek:
Her shorts are the same color as her bra haha

njtennis17
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:26 AM
I guess, but there's not much to talk about in this match. Bammer will probably hit 4 winners all match, and it will be all on Venus as usual.

I would like to make a quick point that I predicted Bammer's winner total over an hour ago. :lol::eek:

Direwolf
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:29 AM
I dont know any average baseliner
who has more winners than unforce errors in the match!!!

not even Henin or Dementieva can top that

kiwifan
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:31 AM
Well if Venus wasn't so darn stubborn...and blah blah stubborn...won't question line calls because she's stubborn...won't play warm ups because she's so darn stubborn...will never make anything out of herself with all that stubborness...a miracle she's even a tennis player ...stubborn...doesn't know what she's doing and Bammer going to let her give her the match because Venus is so stubborn...blah blah ...Stubborn...oh yeah and she's got 7 Slams which is quite impressive...blah blah Stubborn...can't close out ...stubborn...mentally weaker than Serena...stubborn...:explode:

Paneru
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:31 AM
Just do what I do(and what venus says she does), watch the match on mute! :cool:

Infiniti2001
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:32 AM
yes, and I loved Chris Fowler suggesting that Venus would retire at the end of the year based on the whispers he's heard... like they even have any sources that know anything about Venus or Serena... :lol:

As if Vee fraternizes in the locker room :rolleyes: I swear he acts like a woman sometimes :rolleyes:

KoOlMaNsEaN
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:36 AM
Im not a venus fan and even I was like shutup, shes a 7 time slam champion

Mrs. Peel
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:37 AM
why are other williams fans so caught up on what other people say about their players. Seriously, pathetically insecure 100% all the time, I swear :rolleyes:

Why are assclowns like you so caught up on what Williams fans say about what other people say about their favorite players? Pathetically obsessed and holier than thou 100% all the time. :rolleyes::p

Always showing up quicker than a fly on a pile of doo doo to express your displeasure.

Infiniti2001
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:39 AM
Why are assclowns like you so caught up on what Williams fans say about what other people say about their favorite players? Pathetically obsessed and holier than thou 100% all the time. :rolleyes::p

Always showing up quicker than a fly on a pile of doo doo to express your displeasure.

This :)

ghost world
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:39 AM
lol

I'd like video of this so-called catfight, please.

Warhol15
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:40 AM
Hear, hear.

What I really don't care for in the commentary booth is a lot of "s/he should do this...blah...blah...blah." It is too easy to be an expert in a booth. Also, they talk way too much, drowning out the match, cutting to interviews, other match summaries, etc., when all I want is to watch the match and make my own analysis.


^^ This.

V-MAC
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:41 AM
The British Eurosport commentators are very respectful of Vee. In fact, Sam Smith is quite a big fan of hers:)

venusallday
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:41 AM
Well if Venus wasn't so darn stubborn...and blah blah stubborn...won't question line calls because she's stubborn...won't play warm ups because she's so darn stubborn...will never make anything out of herself with all that stubborness...a miracle she's even a tennis player ...stubborn...doesn't know what she's doing and Bammer going to let her give her the match because Venus is so stubborn...blah blah ...Stubborn...oh yeah and she's got 7 Slams which is quite impressive...blah blah Stubborn...can't close out ...stubborn...mentally weaker than Serena...stubborn...:explode:

I sending somebody to go slap them hoes:wavey::fiery::devil:

alwayshingis
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:41 AM
My favorite part was when Chris Fowler said "Venus Williams against fellow mom Sybille Bammer..."

I didn't think they were being that harsh, actually...though, of course, if one of the American men were playing (Roddick) they would never even begin to critique...

jefrilibra
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:42 AM
Why are assclowns like you so caught up on what Williams fans say about what other people say about their favorite players? Pathetically obsessed and holier than thou 100% all the time. :rolleyes::p

Always showing up quicker than a fly on a pile of doo doo to express your displeasure.

ROTFLMAO!

http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/168bf183b2abe8bc9188aacc163dd507/2hdqseqjpg-gif-0.gif

edificio
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:51 AM
I don't live in the states either but last Us open i had the "priviledge" of watching espn usa's coverage. It's very glamorous and i like the fact that they do a lot of different things like graphic analysis and crowd interviews but i found the commentators to be WAY too gossipy. It was like an episode of Tyra! They make predictions and assertions about players as if they are facts and really i found their opinions to be way too personal. If i wanted personal opinions of who people like/dislike i'd come on here.

So true. This is something I don't really need when I'm watching sport. In baseball coverage they constantly talk through everything, but it rarely is gossip, just stats and stances, etc. The worst of the tennis breed of gossipers is Ted Robinson. I even heard him try to do the same thing in swimming coverage on Universal coverage. Very dire. If I want gossip, I'll talk to my granny.

Njay16
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:23 AM
Now Pam starting a fight with Mary :tape:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:24 AM
Now Mary and pam going at it :lol: Pam.....SIT DOWN!!!

V's a star
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:24 AM
Now Pam starting a fight with Mary :tape:

Mary C? fill me in wat did i miss lol

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:25 AM
Pam needs to STFU and stop picking fights lol

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:26 AM
As if Vee fraternizes in the locker room :rolleyes: I swear he acts like a woman sometimes :rolleyes:

That's such a close-minded and offensive thing to say about gender. Just because a reporter on national TV says something he has heard or "gossips" they are acting like a woman?

There are so many things wrong with that comment.

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:26 AM
What are Pam/Mary fighting about now? I wish I had ESPN.

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:29 AM
Serena has like a 90% first serve percentage and so Mary said that "usually the best server wins the GS and right now Serena is the best server.". Then Pam pops out of nowhere and says "well Justine wasn't the best player when she was beating Serena and winning her GS." Mary then said "Well I think she did, she protected her serve well." Pam "Well I still think Serena was a better server in those loses." Mary "No I thought justine was serving well" Basically it was like that it went back and forth until the other commentator was like ANYWAYS he didnt say that but like changed the topic.

Njay16
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:29 AM
Mary C? fill me in wat did i miss lol

What are Pam/Mary fighting about now? I wish I had ESPN.

Mary referenced her theory of the best server at the majors on the women's side will win the tournament. She said she felt that at the moment it was Serena. Pam then said she disagrees with mary's theory because when Justine when on her streak knocking out Serena in 3 consecutive majors back in 2007, that Serena was still the best server. Mary disagreed and said she thought Justine was the best server during that time. Pam then said Justine has never been the best server in Women's tennis but moreso the most complete player when at her best. Mary said "I get what you're saying but.." And Dick pretty much cut her off when Serena got to set point. :lol:

ghost world
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:38 AM
WTF?

Carillo and Enberg are popping off about the '09 US Open incident during match play.

Ridiculous!

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:39 AM
Justine was taking care of her serve the best. I mean, when hasn't Serena been the best server in a tournament?

Keep me posted!

venusallday
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:39 AM
Mary Carillo steps in to match pam and mary hoe

IceSkaTennisFan
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:39 AM
ITA :help:

Sylvester
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:40 AM
Seriously, I wish I had ESPN. It seems all the fun is there! :lol:

geoepee
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:40 AM
It's disgusting...

NyCPsU
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:41 AM
OK now this is annoying. Will we see the clip every match? :lol:

shap_half
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:42 AM
Hear, hear.

What I really don't care for in the commentary booth is a lot of "s/he should do this...blah...blah...blah." It is too easy to be an expert in a booth. Also, they talk way too much, drowning out the match, cutting to interviews, other match summaries, etc., when all I want is to watch the match and make my own analysis.

So what should they do then?

I get that maybe they went overboard, but they weren't saying that ridiculously far fetch. Venus has issues and they were giving suggestions on how she can efficiently play her game.

NyCPsU
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:42 AM
Pam owning Mary/Mary Jo again. :worship:

venusallday
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:42 AM
Pam GOT that ass! Thank you Pam for finally doing something right!

dabossK
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
Omg Mary needs to shut the fuck up

IceSkaTennisFan
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
Give it to her Pam!:smash:

Njay16
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
Pam going at Mary again :worship: :worship: :worship:

Pam defending Serena :hearts:

Veesus
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
I am listening to Pam Shriver is DEMOLISHING Mary right now.

Who allows this banshee to commentate? I really wish I could set her straight. :help:

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
The ESPN commentators are such hypocrites, they said the first day of the fortnight to "move on" when they first showed it, but they bring it up and show the clip every time she plays and it wont be the last time this tournament or year.

JUSTICE4ALL
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
Enough Said!!!!

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:43 AM
So what should they do then?

I get that maybe they went overboard, but they weren't saying that ridiculously far fetch. Venus has issues and they were giving suggestions on how she can efficiently play her game.

I'm with you. What they are saying from what I have read are legitimate points, but maybe it didn't need to be repeated and touched on over and over and over as some Venus fans feel.

I think overall this is maybe more of a sensitive issue because Clijsters is getting all the love and all the praise right now.

njtennis17
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
Mary Carillo is by far the worst commentator. Shut that old disgusting hag up. She rambles about "facts" that Pam proves are completely untrue. Someone should punch that woman in the face, if I ever saw her I sure as hell would.

JUSTICE4ALL
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
Haha PAM just MEGA PAWNED MARY LOL

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
OMG Pam just put Mary in her PLACE :haha: :haha: Finally someone willing to stand up for Serena, I'm shocked it's Pam but glad she did.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
:rolleyes:

kiwifan
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
Did you hear Carillo just get put in check??? :o :o :o:haha:

FACE!!! :hehehe:

:devil:

Veesus
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
OMG. I am going to the Sony Ericsson Open and I am going to let her know about herself.

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM
It's so sad because it is taking away from how well serena is playing!

doni1212
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:45 AM
Pam actually defended Serena. Shocking!

ptkten
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:45 AM
Mary carillo said she got away with the threat of murder :tape:

She shouldn't be allowed to comment on any of serena's matches ever again. We need to make a concerted effort to make it known to espn that she can't be an unbiased commentator for her matches. Everyone who is as offended as I was should write to espn.

Thank god for Pam shutting her up:worship:

Veesus
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:46 AM
I guess this thread could be merged with the others. :o Carillo :sobbing: Her claims are just SO unfounded. :sobbing:

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:46 AM
OMG Pam just put Mary in her PLACE :haha: :haha: Finally someone willing to stand up for Serena, I'm shocked it's Pam but glad she did.

Shocked its Pam? Shriver and Fernandez are very objective.

ghost world
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:46 AM
Mary C is still popping off.

Plus, Pam just wrecked Carillo's argument with solid facts supporting Serena's bit regarding sexism. :eek: :lol: :drool: :devil:

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
So what should they do then?

I get that maybe they went overboard, but they weren't saying that ridiculously far fetch. Venus has issues and they were giving suggestions on how she can efficiently play her game.

When anyone remotely criticizes her/them or gives suggestions, it's taken in a negative way. I wouldn't even bother trying to understand it.

RYNJ
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
ESPN = Soap Opera

geoepee
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
Pam is tired of being sent courtside during matches,.. ho wants a seat in the booth!

PointBlank
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
pam. :bigclap:

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
Details please? what did Pam say?

Njay16
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
Mary was saying how Serea needs to stop whining and if she were in charge oh the tings she would have one to Serena. Saying that the ITF thinks Serena is bigger than the integrity of tennis. At this point Pam to the rescue :hearts:

She got a list of the NFL players who were fined for similar outbursts such as the one Serena has at the USO and said the greatest fine was $25,000. She then told Mary she disagrees with what Carillo said about Serena being greater than the sports integrity. Pam then said "so you think she should have received a harsher penalty for swearing at a line judge?" Capping it off with her Pam sarcasm :lol: She explained it happens all the time in sports and that Serena beig upset about the significant amount she was fined is justified. Then once again Dick interrupted and sent it to the studio :lol:

IceSkaTennisFan
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:47 AM
Is that the lineswoman Serena threatened standing behind Haas?

shap_half
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:48 AM
I'm with you. What they are saying from what I have read are legitimate points, but maybe it didn't need to be repeated and touched on over and over and over as some Venus fans feel.

I think overall this is maybe more of a sensitive issue because Clijsters is getting all the love and all the praise right now.

I get that. And it's completely fine, but let's be honest here, Clijsters is currently playing the kind of tennis that should be praised. She's adding much needed excitement and quality to the game, which Venus wasn't really doing outside of like one or two tournaments a year since 2003.

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:48 AM
What did they say? It must have been good to create a few threads.

geoepee
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:48 AM
Is that the lineswoman Serena threatened standing behind Tipsarevic?
yes she is!

geoepee
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM
this time with a funky hat :D she gets around...

dabossK
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM
OMG Pam just put Mary in her PLACE :haha: :haha: Finally someone willing to stand up for Serena, I'm shocked it's Pam but glad she did.

No I'm not suprised does anyone remember when Pammy bitched out douchebag Gilbert at AO last year about Christina McHale's cramping in the first round?? Iblove when she puts the other commentators in their places! Goooooooooooo Pam!!!

~{X}~
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM
Go Pam! :D

kiwifan
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM
Shame they cut away to another match, suddenly I was interested in the ladies talking over the action. :haha:

IceSkaTennisFan
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM
How random! Good timing :lol: Shoot, I was hoping Serena would give Mary a good bagel to chew on.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM
I get that. And it's completely fine, but let's be honest here, Clijsters is currently playing the kind of tennis that should be praised. She's adding much needed excitement and quality to the game, which Venus wasn't really doing outside of like one or two tournaments a year since 2003.

This is true, Venus has been sad lately honestly

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:50 AM
I get that. And it's completely fine, but let's be honest here, Clijsters is currently playing the kind of tennis that should be praised. She's adding much needed excitement and quality to the game, which Venus wasn't really doing outside of like one or two tournaments a year since 2003.

Mhmm! I really don't care about the actual matter. I'm just happy not everyone in the commentary box are preening each other and going

"Yeah girl I really agree you know..."

Give me some varied opinions and some opposing views.

friendsita
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:50 AM
ug

shap_half
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:51 AM
Justine was taking care of her serve the best. I mean, when hasn't Serena been the best server in a tournament?

Keep me posted!

Right. It's not really anything to argue over. Serena is probably always going to be the best server in the tournament.

Wait, is it Mary Joe and Pam who are arguing? Or Mary Carillo and Pam?

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:51 AM
Yes im SOOOO glad Pam CHECKED Mary Carillos ass and shut her down. This entire tournament she has been downplaying and smudgeing the Williams Sisters name and praising Henin. She just could not keep Serena's punishment from the US open out of her mouth until Pam stepped in and shut her manly ass up....Pam get plus points with me tonight :) you go Pam!

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:52 AM
Mary C is still popping off.

Plus, Pam just wrecked Carillo's argument with solid facts supporting Serena's bit regarding sexism. :eek: :lol: :drool: :devil:

She said the next highest fine behind Serena's that didn't involve physical contact was 25k :eek: :eek: And that totally negated Mary's dumbass argument that other sports would've punished her more severly :rolleyes:

PointBlank
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:52 AM
pam pwn'd mary.

mary was rambling on about how peopple get banned for life and fined much more and blah blah for what serena did. pam then had a fact sheet in front of her stating that an nfl player who intentionally caused altercation with a referee was only founded $25,000. mary started talking about the integrity of the game and how it was basically ruined with serenas low fine. pam then said something about the toll its taken on serena and mary said what about the toll its taken on the referee and pam said it was just a swear word and it happens everyday in every sport.

then espn cut away very much like the view.

Thkmra
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:52 AM
When anyone remotely criticizes her/them or gives suggestions, it's taken in a negative way. I wouldn't even bother trying to understand it.

Kick rocks and stop being a shit-stirrer!!! Seriously...this is really starting to get out of hand with, not only the Belgian :worship::rolleyes:...OMG, I didn't know a woman could hit a back-hand volley:o Ridicoulous!! Also they way the are just ripping Serena to shreds about the incident...SERIOUSLY?!!:help: And then they showed it over again, and discussed it even further:fiery:

young_gunner913
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:52 AM
What did they say? It must have been good to create a few threads.

Mary with her typical Serena didnt get a harsh enough punishment, she thinks shes above the sport blah blah blah. Pam with some great points that were STFU worthy, but Mary being Mary wouldnt shut up. I seriously hope one of these days Serena just calls her out on her bullshit. She's talking so much shit on Serena when she commentates but then whenever she interviews her, she tries to act like BFFs.

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:52 AM
When anyone remotely criticizes her/them or gives suggestions, it's taken in a negative way. I wouldn't even bother trying to understand it.


WTF Arnian? :rolleyes: I let them get away with what they said about Venus but they just spent 10 minutes during Serena's match attacking her for the incident in New York again. Mary Carillo went as far as to say that Serena got away with threats of murder. :eek: She didn't let up there but continued by saying she is lucky she wasn't an ITF member because Serena would have gotten punished alot harsher. This was DURING the point as well. Completely ridiculous and biased commentating. I let that Venus thing go but what they just did to Serena was tactless as it gets.

njtennis17
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:53 AM
Pam is owning everyone today, she owned Mary Jo. She owned Mary earlier in the match too, when Mary claimed Henin had the best serve a few years ago and that's why she won all those majors. Then she backtracked when Pam called her out, and said well Henin protected her serve the best.

Veesus
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:53 AM
What did they say? It must have been good to create a few threads.

She was going on and on and on and on and on about last year's US Open incident. She talked about how Serena thought she had been treated unfairly, and she then started to talk about how Serena was wrong for thinking that, because people in other sports are treated so much more harshly. Pam Shriver then interjected and said that she had a list of about 20 NFL fines and only one was bigger than Serena's (and it was an owner who had been fined). Pam then said that two of the NLF fines involved physical abuse toward the officials and those fines were less than 25,000. :help: It was just VERY pathetic from Carillo to continue to talk about the incident.

KBdoubleu
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:54 AM
Pam Shriver and Mary Jo Fernandez are both very objective commentators. Let's just say that there is a reason for this with Carillo;

"I've been in more penalty boxes than anyone," Carillo said. "As thoughts leave my mouth, I often realize, 'That will cost me a year with that person.'"

Carillo said Andre Agassi doesn't talk to her. She has gone years without speaking to Venus Williams. Serena Williams isn't happy with her. And Maria Sharapova also isn't pleased with Carillo because of things said at the Nasdaq-100."

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:54 AM
Kick rocks and stop being a shit-stirrer!!! Seriously...this is really starting to get out of hand with, not only the Belgian :worship::rolleyes:...OMG, I didn't know a woman could hit a back-hand volley:o Ridicoulous!! Also they way the are just ripping Serena to shreds about the incident...SERIOUSLY?!!:help: And then they showed it over again, and discussed it even further:fiery:

It was a huge deal and bothered a lot of people, you're just going to have to accept the fact that they are going to talk about it. This is the first major since the US Open, what were you expecting?

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:55 AM
Manly lookin ass Mary...she gets on my LAST nerve. Pam checked her though...shut her ass up. I'm glad she stepped in because Mary was just going to sit and continue to bitch about Serena not gettin punished enough from the US open. I mean come on now..bitch move on! lol

Njay16
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:55 AM
When anyone remotely criticizes her/them or gives suggestions, it's taken in a negative way. I wouldn't even bother trying to understand it.

I seem to recall how defensive you got when some posters dismissed Justine's play at the exhibitions in Belgium. You were saying how hard they were being on her, etc. We're fans of Venus so do you not expect us to get a ittle defensive? You do it for Justine as well does any other poster for their favorite player. A 7 time Grand Slam Champion with 41 titles and 3 Olympic Gold Medals doesn't need suggestions on ways to improve from people with 0 majors. And it would be nice if they were "suggestions" were more "suggestions" and not so much catty.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:55 AM
WTF Arnian? :rolleyes: I let them get away with what they said about Venus but they just spent 10 minutes during Serena's match attacking her for the incident in New York again. Mary Carillo went as far as to say that Serena got away with threats of murder. :eek: She didn't let up there but continued by saying she is lucky she wasn't an ITF member because Serena would have gotten punished alot harsher. This was DURING the point as well. Completely ridiculous and biased commentating. I let that Venus thing go but what they just did to Serena was tactless as it gets.

The murder thing is a little much, I'm not saying that was fine, but the critiquing of Venus wasn't bad like people are making it out to be.

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:56 AM
The murder thing is a little much, I'm not saying that was fine, but the critiquing of Venus wasn't bad like people are making it out to be.


Yes it is considering they kept discussing it during points!

Thkmra
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:56 AM
WTF Arnian? :rolleyes: I let them get away with what they said about Venus but they just spent 10 minutes during Serena's match attacking her for the incident in New York again. Mary Carillo went as far as to say that Serena got away with threats of murder. :eek: She didn't let up there but continued by saying she is lucky she wasn't an ITF member because Serena would have gotten punished alot harsher. This was DURING the point as well. Completely ridiculous and biased commentating. I let that Venus thing go but what they just did to Serena was tactless as it gets.

Tasteless!!!

PointBlank
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:57 AM
Pam Shriver and Mary Jo Fernandez are both very objective commentators. Let's just say that there is a reason for this with Carillo;

"I've been in more penalty boxes than anyone," Carillo said. "As thoughts leave my mouth, I often realize, 'That will cost me a year with that person.'"

Carillo said Andre Agassi doesn't talk to her. She has gone years without speaking to Venus Williams. Serena Williams isn't happy with her. And Maria Sharapova also isn't pleased with Carillo because of things said at the Nasdaq-100."

thats from her wiki. ive read it before and the link that goes with the article they took it from. i must have missed something, so can someone fill me in with what she said about maria in miami?

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:57 AM
Yes it is considering they kept discussing it during points!

Guess I'm just used to them talking during points :haha:

Stamp Paid
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:58 AM
Get her Pam
http://i45.tinypic.com/2zhk1g4.jpg

edificio
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:58 AM
So what should they do then?

I get that maybe they went overboard, but they weren't saying that ridiculously far fetch. Venus has issues and they were giving suggestions on how she can efficiently play her game.

She doesn't need their suggestions. They should let us watch the match. Other commentators are able to do it.

Infiniti2001
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:59 AM
Why are naysayers in this thread? If you don't want to hear Venus's fans complain, stay the fuck away :help:

dabossK
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:59 AM
What did Pam own Mary Joe fernandez on????

Thkmra
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:59 AM
Mary carillo said she got away with the threat of murder :tape:

She shouldn't be allowed to comment on any of serena's matches ever again. We need to make a concerted effort to make it known to espn that she can't be an unbiased commentator for her matches. Everyone who is as offended as I was should write to espn.

Thank god for Pam shutting her up:worship:

Almost as Blasphemous was her saying Justinne was a better server than Serena!!!:o

But serioulsy, I'm too through and 'Over the rainbow'!! That display that they put on(Carillo) was some of the most rancid, immature, tacky behavior i've ever witnessed from a 'professional'. It was bad enough she went into her usual Belgian-climaxing:tape:, but then 'the incident'...how delusional and specious Serena is for stating she's put to a higher standard because she's a woman(and another physical characteristic, Serena is to PC to say...but honestly....hmmm, ok!!:rolleyes:).

Oh, it really got comical when she descibed what she would have done if she 'were in charge':help: And if at first you don't succeed, try and try again...Broadcast of the 'incident' over:o I'm just soooo beside myself right now with this crap:fiery:

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:59 AM
Pam Shriver and Mary Jo Fernandez are both very objective commentators. Let's just say that there is a reason for this with Carillo;

"I've been in more penalty boxes than anyone," Carillo said. "As thoughts leave my mouth, I often realize, 'That will cost me a year with that person.'"

Carillo said Andre Agassi doesn't talk to her. She has gone years without speaking to Venus Williams. Serena Williams isn't happy with her. And Maria Sharapova also isn't pleased with Carillo because of things said at the Nasdaq-100."

I remember the Agassi thing vaguely, but I also remember Williams camp calling out Carillo publicly.

I am STILL wondering why people are surprised that Shriver stood up because Shriver and Fernandez are very objective.

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:59 AM
LMAO love Pam.

edificio
Jan 21st, 2010, 06:59 AM
When anyone remotely criticizes her/them or gives suggestions, it's taken in a negative way. I wouldn't even bother trying to understand it.

Then why the &%^&** do you keep responding in these threads?

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:00 AM
Why are naysayers in this thread? If you don't want to hear Venus's fans complain, stay the fuck away :help:

It's in GM, based off your argument this should be moved to Venus's thread then :angel:

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:00 AM
Yes im SOOOO glad Pam CHECKED Mary Carillos ass and shut her down. This entire tournament she has been downplaying and smudgeing the Williams Sisters name and praising Henin. She just could not keep Serena's punishment from the US open out of her mouth until Pam stepped in and shut her manly ass up....Pam get plus points with me tonight :) you go Pam!

OMG ur avatar is offensive please change it. thankx

Serenita
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:00 AM
She was going on and on and on and on and on about last year's US Open incident. She talked about how Serena thought she had been treated unfairly, and she then started to talk about how Serena was wrong for thinking that, because people in other sports are treated so much more harshly. Pam Shriver then interjected and said that she had a list of about 20 NFL fines and only one was bigger than Serena's (and it was an owner who had been fined). Pam then said that two of the NLF fines involved physical abuse toward the officials and those fines were less than 25,000. :help: It was just VERY pathetic from Carillo to continue to talk about the incident.

Pam was on tonight:lol:, first she sucker punched MJF now Carillo. :lol:

venusallday
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:00 AM
Why, you say?

Because she has three. evil orifices: her ass sh**s waste, her mouth spits more waste, and her varillo is somewhere in between. No one wants that.

Brooklyn90
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:00 AM
I loved how Pam checked Mary's dumb ass! Mary says shit with out any facts, she just basically makes up stuff. "this whole country's not buying it" :lol:

Lucemferre
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:01 AM
She is pathetic. Belgians won't change their nationality support Americans a bit you idiot.

~{X}~
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:01 AM
OMG ur avatar is offensive please change it. thankx

I think its quite yummy actually. :drool:;)

kiwifan
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:02 AM
No one put her in check a decade ago so now she just feels free to say whatever spews out of her gob when it comes to the Williams Sisters...at least that's my theory. :angel:

dabossK
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:02 AM
And when carillo said that Justine defends her serve the best, Thats fucking bullshit! Henins serve is better than Agnieszkas or Caros yet they still defend their serves better. Mary is a stupid bitch.

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:02 AM
Did you hear Carillo just get put in check??? :o :o :o:haha:

FACE!!! :hehehe:

:devil:

What happened?

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:04 AM
Why are naysayers in this thread? If you don't want to hear Venus's fans complain, stay the fuck away :help:


I know!!! Most of the people complaining are Justine fans who have no problems with the commentators because they kiss Justine's ass. It's like they have a private Buddha shrine of Kim and Justine in the back of the ESPN studios that these commentators are forced to pray to everyday. I hope Serena beats the snot out of Justine if they both make the final and watch Mary Carillo and Pam Shriver crying and racing back to the U.S.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:04 AM
Pam Shriver and Mary Jo Fernandez are both very objective commentators. Let's just say that there is a reason for this with Carillo;

"I've been in more penalty boxes than anyone," Carillo said. "As thoughts leave my mouth, I often realize, 'That will cost me a year with that person.'"

Carillo said Andre Agassi doesn't talk to her. She has gone years without speaking to Venus Williams. Serena Williams isn't happy with her. And Maria Sharapova also isn't pleased with Carillo because of things said at the Nasdaq-100."

I don't picture Mary having very many friends in and out of the tennis world. You could cut the tension between her and Pam tonight with a butter knife.

She's just a very negative person, which is too bad because she does at times have clever things to say but she often times looks like an idiot commentating on a sport she does little research on.

KBdoubleu
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:04 AM
thats from her wiki. ive read it before and the link that goes with the article they took it from. i must have missed something, so can someone fill me in with what she said about maria in miami?

I'm guessing it was the year of the infamous Sharapova/Golovin match. Sharapova got a lot of heat for not showing any concern when Golovin rolled her ankle. She also took bathroom breaks at "convenient" times against a couple of different opponents that tournament. I'm not sure exactly what Carillo said though. Carillo just likes to run her mouth for no reason. I'll always remember after Serena beat Sharapova at the AO in '05, Carillo claimed that Sharapova was still the better player...

Infiniti2001
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:05 AM
It's in GM, based off your argument this should be moved to Venus's thread then :angel:

Oh get off your high horse :rolleyes: you will never see me in a thread about herpes lips or any player I don't care for. Why can't everyone else be the same?

~{X}~
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:05 AM
I know!!! Most of the people complaining are Justine fans who have no problems with the commentators because they kiss Justine's ass. It's like they have a private Buddha shrine of Kim and Justine in the back of the ESPN studios that these commentators are forced to pray to everyday. I hope Serena beats the snot out of Justine if they both make the final and watch Mary Carillo and Pam Shriver crying and racing back to the U.S.

Atleast Clijsters is a nice person, its tough to hate her at all. :lol:

And... don't forget to add that they worship Sharapova too. :rolleyes:

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:07 AM
Oh get off your high horse :rolleyes: you will never see me in a thread about herpes lips or any player I don't care for. Why can't everyone else be the same?


:lol: I hardly ever go into other threads that don't involve my faves. Why can't others have this same philosophy. :shrug:

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:08 AM
Oh get off your high horse :rolleyes: you will never see me in a thread about herpes lips or any player I don't care for. Why can't everyone else be the same?

I like Venus, I just happen to disagree with some of the complaining.

It's interesting that just because someone disagrees, it automatically means they don't like said player.

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:08 AM
And... don't forget to add that they worship Sharapova too. :rolleyes:

They don't worship Maria anymore.

Simply put, you can't worship someone that isn't there. Sharapova can't even stay at a venue for 4/14 days now.

LDVTennis
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:10 AM
She was going on and on and on and on and on about last year's US Open incident. She talked about how Serena thought she had been treated unfairly, and she then started to talk about how Serena was wrong for thinking that, because people in other sports are treated so much more harshly. Pam Shriver then interjected and said that she had a list of about 20 NFL fines and only one was bigger than Serena's (and it was an owner who had been fined). Pam then said that two of the NLF fines involved physical abuse toward the officials and those fines were less than 25,000. :help: It was just VERY pathetic from Carillo to continue to talk about the incident.

Pam was wrong. Mary was right.

The NFL players who were fined for contact with an official were fined for incidental contact with an official in an attempt to make their case for and/or against a penalty. They were not fined for verbally- and/or physically-threatening an official. Only a person who has never watched an actual NFL game would think that.

NFL players are suspended on the spot (from games) for unprovoked or flagrant/intentional hits on another player. Yet, Pam wants you fools to think that if a player did anything like this this to an NFL official they would just be fined $25,000.

If an NFL player had verbally- and/or physically-threatened an NFL official like Serena threatened that lineswoman, that player would not just be fined $25,000. At the very least, the player would be looking at a multi-game suspension without pay, anger-management counseling, and the player would only be allowed to play again at the discretion of the commissioner and his office. Mary was right. Roger Goodell (the NFL commissioner) would never stand for such behavior.

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:14 AM
Thanks. :hatoff:

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:16 AM
If an NFL player had verbally- and/or physically-threatened an NFL official like Serena threatened that lineswoman, that player would not just be fined $25,000. At the very least, the player would be looking at a multi-game suspension without pay, anger-management counseling, and the player would only be allowed to play again at the discretion of the commissioner and his office. Mary was right. Roger Goodell (the NFL commissioner) would never stand for such behavior.
Wrong. Unbelievably wrong. I know for a FACT players speaking EXTREMELY harshly to officials, but NFL official let a LOT of shit slide, given the emotions of the game. TRUST. Many of my good friends have played in the NFL and witnessed this.

harloo
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:16 AM
It's in GM, based off your argument this should be moved to Venus's thread then :angel:

Maybe you should just stay out of these threads because you have to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this board. When anybody says something about Justine you're the first person to come to her defense. :rolleyes:

Thkmra
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:16 AM
Mary carillo said she got away with the threat of murder :tape:

She shouldn't be allowed to comment on any of serena's matches ever again. We need to make a concerted effort to make it known to espn that she can't be an unbiased commentator for her matches. Everyone who is as offended as I was should write to espn.

Thank god for Pam shutting her up:worship:

Address, petition?:fiery:..say the word!

shap_half
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:17 AM
Pam is tired of being sent courtside during matches,.. ho wants a seat in the booth!

:lol:

I enjoy the things that come out of her mouth. I don't care who she's saying it about. She's so sarcastic and colorful with her comments. She does say a thing or two in every match that's kinda wonky, but overall she makes me giggle.

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:17 AM
I'm starting to like this Carillo. ;)

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:19 AM
Maybe you should just stay out of these threads because you have to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this board. When anybody says something about Justine you're the first person to come to her defense. :rolleyes:

Depends upon the situation, I have to endure Pam Shriver's snide comments here and there about Justine or critiquing here or there, but you don't see me posting a thread and complaining up a storm.

I defend Justine on this forum, against other posters, but I don't complain about commentators often at all. Most of the time, it's constructive criticism coming from them.

Thkmra
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:19 AM
Yes im SOOOO glad Pam CHECKED Mary Carillos ass and shut her down. This entire tournament she has been downplaying and smudgeing the Williams Sisters name and praising Henin. She just could not keep Serena's punishment from the US open out of her mouth until Pam stepped in and shut her manly ass up....Pam get plus points with me tonight :) you go Pam!

:lol::lol::lol::tape::help:

Njay16
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:20 AM
Maybe you should just stay out of these threads because you have to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this board. When anybody says something about Justine you're the first person to come to her defense. :rolleyes:

This.

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:22 AM
Depends upon the situation, I have to endure Pam Shriver's snide comments here and there about Justine or critiquing here or there, but you don't see me posting a thread and complaining up a storm.

I defend Justine on this forum, against other posters, but I don't complain about commentators often at all. Most of the time, it's constructive criticism coming from them.

That's because all the commentators lick Justine's ass. :rolleyes:

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:23 AM
That's because all the commentators lick Justine's ass. :rolleyes:

Actually no, Pam Shriver in particular gets her little digs in here and there, especially lately it seems, but I try not to hate her for it :shrug:

Bijoux0021
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:24 AM
Maybe you should just stay out of these threads because you have to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this board. When anybody says something about Justine you're the first person to come to her defense. :rolleyes:
Co-sign.

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:26 AM
Actually no, Pam Shriver in particular gets her little digs in here and there, especially lately it seems, but I try not to hate her for it :shrug:

When? I can hear her panties getting moist every time she mentions Justine or Kim. Mary Carillo however has a full blown climatic orgasm everytime she talks about them. :rolleyes:

kiwifan
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:29 AM
Pam was wrong. Mary was right.

The NFL players who were fined for contact with an official were fined for incidental contact with an official in an attempt to make their case for and/or against a penalty. They were not fined for verbally- and/or physically-threatening an official. Only a person who has never watched an actual NFL game would think that.

NFL players are suspended on the spot (from games) for unprovoked or flagrant/intentional hits on another player. Yet, Pam wants you fools to think that if a player did anything like this this to an NFL official they would just be fined $25,000.

If an NFL player had verbally- and/or physically-threatened an NFL official like Serena threatened that lineswoman, that player would not just be fined $25,000. At the very least, the player would be looking at a multi-game suspension without pay, anger-management counseling, and the player would only be allowed to play again at the discretion of the commissioner and his office. Mary was right. Roger Goodell (the NFL commissioner) would never stand for such behavior.

Bullshit, I know players and officials and media staff from the NFL and official hear every fucked up thing in the book (especially where players would like to shove a ball in relation with the ref's anatomy :lol: :tape: ) from players and they let it roll off their backs...now if you touch an official...that's the line. Team Pam. :cool:

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:30 AM
When? I can hear her panties getting moist every time she mentions Justine or Kim. Mary Carillo however has a full blown climatic orgasm everytime she talks about them. :rolleyes:

The other night when she was fondling Kim's baby pictures, she talked about how the most angry she's ever been with a tennis player was when Justine retired in the AO final in 06. She's mentioned that incident several times now. :shrug:

harloo
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:31 AM
Depends upon the situation, I have to endure Pam Shriver's snide comments here and there about Justine or critiquing here or there, but you don't see me posting a thread and complaining up a storm.

I defend Justine on this forum, against other posters, but I don't complain about commentators often at all. Most of the time, it's constructive criticism coming from them.


You don't have to complain about the commentators because they have always kissed Justine's ass. :rolleyes: Obviously you don't have any knowledge about the history of American commentators and their harsh and biased criticism of the sisters. Justine and Kim haven't experienced a fraction of that type of bashing.

I guarantee you if these commentators treated Justine like they treated Venus and Serena you would be in here defending her. So please get off your soapbox.

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:31 AM
The other night when she was fondling Kim's baby pictures, she talked about how the most angry she's ever been with a tennis player was when Justine retired in the AO final in 06. She's mention that incident several times now. :shrug:

Yes, Pam is overly critical of Justine's retirement in that match. In fact, she brings that up as much as they will bring up Serena's US Open incident. But, it still doesn't outweigh how much she and the ESPN commentators act like Justine is God's gift to tennis. :rolleyes:

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:31 AM
LMAO, it was so funny today watching Hewitt with Jim Courier and Jason Alexander. JA is part of Lleytons eternal fanship, and is up his arse at every opportunity. If he wins = vintage Hewitt, but if he loses = the other guy played THE match of his life.

Courier was saying 'It's all on Young's racket, Hewitt can't win this match. He can only not lose it. Intangibles, intangibles, intangibles....' JA was just shellshocked, couldn't say a thing.

Thkmra
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:32 AM
When? I can hear her panties getting moist every time she mentions Justine or Kim. Mary Carillo however has a full blown climatic orgasm everytime she talks about them. :rolleyes:

I don't think we're clear on what type of orgasms Mary has:tape::help:

ghost world
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:32 AM
Interrupting live tennis for interviews? :o :help:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:33 AM
Shocked its Pam? Shriver and Fernandez are very objective.

hmm for someone who claims to not have espn you sure are able to assert that pam and mary jo are objective

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:34 AM
Yes, Pam is overly critical of Justine's retirement in that match. In fact, she brings that up as much as they will bring up Serena's US Open incident. But, it still doesn't outweigh how much she and the ESPN commentators act like Justine is God's gift to tennis. :rolleyes:

What's it to you anyway? Every commentator on Earth has favourites, and will have some level of bias. Carillo probably more than others, but who cares? Really? It's not like she's talking about you.

Don't get so attached, sweetie. :hug:

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:37 AM
The thing is they took 10 minutes discussing the US Open incident again and even showing a clip of it. Mary Carillo was ranting away even during the point. I like to hear the strike of the ball, the player's grunts, and their celebratory emotions and I couldn't because Mary Jo would just not shut the fuck up!!! She said what Serena did was the equivalent to a murder threat. :eek: Do you know how that type of commentary could throw a casual viewer off? Not only that, her ridiculous talk about she's lucky that she isn't on the ITF committee.

This bitch is fully in burning hatred category after tonight. :fiery:

Bahia
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:37 AM
hmm for someone who claims to not have espn you sure are able to assert that pam and mary jo are objective

I don't have coverage right now, but I have watched several events on ESPN. Fernandez and Shriver are often on the ball with their input.

Arnian
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:38 AM
You don't have to complain about the commentators because they have always kissed Justine's ass. :rolleyes: Obviously you don't have any knowledge about the history of American commentators and their harsh and biased criticism of the sisters. Justine and Kim haven't experienced a fraction of that type of bashing.

I guarantee you if these commentators treated Justine like they treated Venus and Serena you would be in here defending her. So please get off your soapbox.

Perhaps you are right Harloo, but I've watched tennis since before the sisters came along, and yes they have been harsh of the sisters, but most of the time (to me) it's been because they expect a lot.

It could also be a difference in perspective, typically from the professional level, I find criticism to be constructive.

An example of this would be when MJF says "Venus is being stubborn, because she doesn't ever back up for her returns," some people may find this to be a negative thing, to me it just seems logical :shrug:

G1Player2
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:38 AM
What's it to you anyway? Every commentator on Earth has favourites, and will have some level of bias. Carillo probably more than others, but who cares? Really? It's not like she's talking about you.

Don't get so attached, sweetie. :hug:

You're lucky I am out of reps. :devil:

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:39 AM
Bullshit, I know players and officials and media staff from the NFL and official hear every fucked up thing in the book (especially where players would like to shove a ball in relation with the ref's anatomy :lol: :tape: ) from players and they let it roll off their backs...now if you touch an official...that's the line. Team Pam. :cool:
You're absolutely right.

I remember when Walter Payton - Sweetness himself - innocently placed a hand on an official just to plead his case and got fined. Rozelle thought about the suspension, but it was an innocent gesture.

LDVTennis
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:43 AM
Wrong. Unbelievably wrong. I know for a FACT players speaking EXTREMELY harshly to officials, but NFL official let a LOT of shit slide, given the emotions of the game. TRUST. Many of my good friends have played in the NFL and witnessed this.

You don't know much about pro football either, I see. So, officials regularly penalize players on opposing teams for taunting in any form, but allow players to verbally- and/or physically-threaten them with personal harm without a penalty? How many NFL games have you watched?

Given the current rules and the regime in place in the commissioner's office, players don't mess with officials like Serena messed with that lineswoman. So, it's almost unthinkable.

You will see players arguing vehemently with coaches on the sidelines, for example Newman with Campo this year. You'll see players taunting each other and even hitting each other outside of a play. But, that's as far as the extracurricular verbal or physical violence goes in today's NFL. By the way, taunting will most certainly lead to a penalty and hitting another player if deemed by the NFL commissioner to be premeditated will most certainly get you a multi-game suspension. Look up the Haynesworth incident from three years ago.

Bijoux0021
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:47 AM
LMAO, it was so funny today watching Hewitt with Jim Courier and Jason Alexander. JA is part of Lleytons eternal fanship, and is up his arse at every opportunity. If he wins = vintage Hewitt, but if he loses = the other guy played THE match of his life.

Courier was saying 'It's all on Young's racket, Hewitt can't win this match. He can only not lose it. Intangibles, intangibles, intangibles....' JA was just shellshocked, couldn't say a thing.
If these comments are true, they were were stupid, because Donald Young has not won anything noteworthy in his professional tennis career to deserve such praise, even against a declining Hewitt.

LDVTennis
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:47 AM
Bullshit, I know players and officials and media staff from the NFL and official hear every fucked up thing in the book (especially where players would like to shove a ball in relation with the ref's anatomy :lol: :tape: ) from players and they let it roll off their backs...now if you touch an official...that's the line. Team Pam. :cool:

Who are you kidding? Your bio says you live in New Zealand. Just how many NFL players an officials live in New Zealand. There are a number of kickers in the NFL from Australia, but I doubt you even know who those guys are. :lol::lol::lol:

Infiniti2001
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:49 AM
Who are you kidding? Your bio says you live in New Zealand. Just how many NFL players an officials live in New Zealand. There are a number of kickers in the NFL from Australia, but I doubt you even know who those guys are. :lol::lol::lol:


Someone is about to get owned :lol::help:

Stamp Paid
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:50 AM
Who are you kidding? Your bio says you live in New Zealand. Just how many NFL players an officials live in New Zealand. There are a number of kickers in the NFL from Australia, but I doubt you even know who those guys are. :lol::lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:51 AM
Who are you kidding? Your bio says you live in New Zealand. Just how many NFL players an officials live in New Zealand. There are a number of kickers in the NFL from Australia, but I doubt you even know who those guys are. :lol::lol::lol:

aren't you supposed to be commentating on a match now shitrillo :lol: get off TF

mckyle.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:52 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 07:59 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

harloo
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:01 AM
Perhaps you are right Harloo, but I've watched tennis since before the sisters came along, and yes they have been harsh of the sisters, but most of the time (to me) it's been because they expect a lot.

It could also be a difference in perspective, typically from the professional level, I find criticism to be constructive.

An example of this would be when MJF says "Venus is being stubborn, because she doesn't ever back up for her returns," some people may find this to be a negative thing, to me it just seems logical :shrug:


So now you're justifying the biased commentators actions over the years because they expect a lot from the sisters? :tape: The venom these commentators spewed years ago and even now has nothing to do with expectations. If anything these commentators wished Venus and Serena never became champions.

And your example is illogical. We're not just talking about constructive criticism where facts are carefully analyzed and discussed. These commentators have repeatedly lied during matches and used the commentating booth as a platform to spew hatred.

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:07 AM
You don't know much about pro football either, I see. So, officials regularly penalize players on opposing teams for taunting in any form.

:spit: I had to stop reading right there because OBVIOUSLY you've never seen, heard, been to a professional football game. :lol: :lol:

Taunting and trash talking happens on EVERY PLAY in the NFL. EVERY. PLAY. If you can't see that, you're blind. I know this from players AND from watching. It's obvious. Official only call the MOST egregious cases. You MUST be blind. I challenge you to watch a playoff game this weekend (if in fact you do watch football) and come back and tell me all the taunting got called. :lol:

You know nothing of the game.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:11 AM
it's LDV...what does it know??? :lol:

BlameSerena
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:21 AM
ESPN, fire Gary Shitrillo. End of.




http://craighickmanontennis.blogspot.com/2010/01/espn-fire-mary-carillo.html

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:21 AM
I was frustrated and annoyed when they went back and forth criticizing a 7 time GS champion about her play, what she should do, how stubborn she is and whether she should come to net right away or get her ground game solid to give her more chances to get to net (which I agree with, Mary Jo), but come on, it was too long and it teetered toward being excessive negative criticism, until they got it back on a more constructive basis.

It pissed me off when Mary first tried to turn Serena's match into her pulpit to worship at the alter in the Holy Church of Justine. But, what literally took my mind and my eyes off of Serena's match was when Mary ripped Serena to shreds:timebomb: for a period of 20 minutes straight or what seemed like a very long time. She was foaming at the mouth with hate and vengence, and tears were running down my face because I was so mad :fiery: wanted to jump in the TV and shove that fucking microphone down her fucking throat. :sobbing:

Thank you Pam. :worship: Thank you. You get a whole lot of political capital and cool points with me for doing that and you will get some slack in the future. But Mary...hehehe :hehehe:

Can I see a show of hands of how many people will be joining me in writing a letter of complaint to ESPN about tonight's coverage of Venus and Serena's matches, and most especially Mary Carillo's slanderous and vicious accusation about Serena?

serenafann
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:24 AM
Obviously when it comes to the Belgians, the American commentators don't know how to be objective. These two players quit tennis. Gave up on it. Not one word of criticism about it. In fact, it was the exact opposite. Where was Chrissy's "Open Letter" to Justine and Kim?

Yet, the two American players, who have amassed 18 GS titles between them, Venus and Serena for almost three years did not play their best tennis or play as much as they could have, because of injuries and the killing of their sister. Instead of understanding their plight, like they seem to understand Justine's "burn out" and Kim's desire to have a husband and a kid and the reasons for their "retirements", the WS were lambasted by the tennis establishment for not being interested in tennis, for having too many outside interests, for not fulfilling their destiny and all sorts of things. And, through the midst of all of their injuries, overwhelming grief, "outside interests" and the harsh neverending criticism that followed, they never quit. They never gave up on tennis.

Now coming back from faux retirement, both are hailed as having "saved" the WTA. They are the second coming of Christ in the eyes of some. The welcome mat has been laid out and the sugary syrup of praise and worship is laid before them. Yet, when they were gone who held up the banner of the WTA? Who carried the WTA?

I think we are all happy that Justine and Kim have come back to the tour. The tour is deeper and there is more competition at the top. As a tennis fan, I'm excited about that, but I'm disappointed that no appreciation is shown for the women that stuck it out and continued to make the WTA interesting, when others quit it.

The hypocrisy and double standard makes me want to vomit. It breaks my heart that my faves are not appreciated, but at every opportunity that presents itself, negatively criticized. What is the reason for the maltreatment and injustice?

Honestly, I'm not bitter about it. It's just hurtful. People can like whomever they want. But, the over the top negativity regarding Serena and the gushiness over the Belgians is just hard to take. I like Kim, but it makes me want to see her lose, so they can shut the hell up.

THIS. :worship: :worship:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:25 AM
ESPN, fire Gary Shitrillo. End of.




http://craighickmanontennis.blogspot.com/2010/01/espn-fire-mary-carillo.html

Those are my very sentiments. I will be emailing ESPN my comments that will be very similar to this today.

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:26 AM
I was frustrated and annoyed when they went back and forth criticizing a 7 time GS champion about her play, what she should do, how stubborn she is and whether she should come to net right away or get her ground game solid to give her more chances to get to net (which I agree with, Mary Jo), but come on, it was too long and it teetered toward being excessive negative criticism, until they got it back on a more constructive basis.

It pissed me off when Mary first tried to turn Serena's match into her pulpit to worship at the alter in the Holy Church of Justine. But, what literally took my mind and my eyes off of Serena's match :bomb: was when Mary ripped Serena to shreds for a period of 20 minutes straight or what seemed like a very long time. She was foaming at the mouth with hate and vengence, and tears were running down my face because I was so mad :fiery: wanted to jump in the TV and shove that fucking microphone down her fucking throat. :sobbing:

Thank you Pam. :worship: Thank you. You get a whole lot of political capital and cool points with me for doing that and you will get some slack in the future. But Mary...hehehe :hehehe:

Can I see a show of hands of how many people will be joining me in writing a letter of complaint to ESPN about tonight's coverage of Venus and Serena's matches, and most especially Mary Carillo's slanderous and vicious accusation about Serena?

:spit:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:30 AM
:spit:

You're such a child.:lol:

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:34 AM
OMG, please stop stalking meh. :unsure:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:34 AM
didn't you respond to her first :o

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:35 AM
didn't you respond to her first :o

Don't say nothing to him. *SMH* :lol:

BlameSerena
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:37 AM
Thank you Pam. :worship: Thank you. You get a whole lot of political capital and cool points with me for doing that and you will get some slack in the future. But Mary...hehehe :hehehe:

Can I see a show of hands of how many people will be joining me in writing a letter of complaint to ESPN about tonight's coverage of Venus and Serena's matches, and most especially Mary Carillo's slanderous and vicious accusation about Serena?

Yeah, Pam was good. What do you think would have happened if Pam didn't step in? :speakles:
I shudder at the thought.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:39 AM
if mary had her own tv station :scared:

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:39 AM
Yeah, lucky Pam was there to stop Mary Carillo from killing someone with her words through a TV set! :scared:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:39 AM
Yeah, Pam was good. What do you think would have happened if Pam didn't step in? :speakles:
I shudder at the thought.

She would have kept on and on about it, but Pam literally shut her up. A lot of people here are saying that they cut away to another match right then and there, but there was a good bit of silence after Pam told her how disengenuous her statement was, and that happened right before the end of the point when Serena won the set. Then they cut away.

Maharhar
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:40 AM
The hype is getting unbearable now.

Her achievment post-retirement are no doubt extremely impressive, but it's the same player with the same flaws she had previously. Commentators seem to label her as some kind of GOAT, waiting to be lifted up into the golden tennis kingdom in the sky.

No commentator should ever show favour towards a player because they are 'nice'. They lose credibility almost immediately.

:clap2:

pokey camp
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:44 AM
Atleast Clijsters is a nice person, its tough to hate her at all. :lol:

And... don't forget to add that they worship Sharapova too. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: Oh no they don’t. They shit on her just like they do with everyone else. Then again people tend to focus on comments they disagree with as opposed to comments they agree with… so I’d guess you wouldn’t notice any criticism Maria receives.

But in reality they’ve been pretty harsh with Maria over the years too. The incident at Miami was when Mary attacked her character essentially said she was cold, heartless, etc. etc.. She went on and on… And everyone seems to think Ted Robinson loves Maria, but he’s always attacked her for not being a “real Russian”, that "she's as American as he is" and she’s stealing from America by not changing her citizenship. He does it when he’s calling her matches on tv and even more so when he’s a guest host on local sports talk radio. He consistently complains about her grunting being annoying. Yadda, yadda, yadda. But for some reason non-fans continue to perceive him as biased in favor of Maria. :confused: Pam is always relentlessly negative about her and PMac is worse than all of them combined; he straight up hates her. But I'm not sure counts, he just hates women in general. :shrug:

So with the exception of Kim every top player gets shit on by ESPN announcers. But after half listening to the match tonight I’m starting to think that Mary should ask Serena out on a date. Such passion. :lol:

SharapovaFTW
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:49 AM
I LOL at the fact anyone planning to write ESPN. I know a guy who works there. Good luck wasting your time!

Golovinjured.
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:51 AM
^^ :spit:

Maybe when they mention they're affiliated with Serena Williams they'll bow to their every demand.

Marilyn Monheaux
Jan 21st, 2010, 08:58 AM
But in reality they’ve been pretty harsh with Maria over the years too. The incident at Miami was when Mary attacked her character essentially said she was cold, heartless, etc. etc.. She went on and on… And everyone seems to think Ted Robinson loves Maria, but he’s always attacked her for not being a “real Russian”, that "she's as American as he is" and she’s stealing from America by not changing her citizenship. He does it when he’s calling her matches on tv and even more so when he’s a guest host on local sports talk radio. He consistently complains about her grunting being annoying. Yadda, yadda, yadda. But for some reason non-fans continue to perceive him as biased in favor of Maria. :confused: Pam is always relentlessly negative about her and PMac is worse than all of them combined; he straight up hates her. But I'm not sure counts, he just hates women in general. :shrug:


How on hell would she steal from America by not changing her citizenship?:spit:

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 21st, 2010, 09:08 AM
I LOL at the fact anyone planning to write ESPN. I know a guy who works there.
Yeah, but I doubt the janitor has much say. :shrug:

LDVTennis
Jan 21st, 2010, 09:13 AM
You're absolutely right.

I remember when Walter Payton - Sweetness himself - innocently placed a hand on an official just to plead his case and got fined. Rozelle thought about the suspension, but it was an innocent gesture.

That's your point of reference, Walter Payton and Pete Rozelle. You really don't keep up with the game, do you?

First of all, there's nothing remotely similar between placing one's hand innocently on an NFL official and what Serena did to that lineswoman.

Second of all, anybody who follows the NFL would tell you that what Serena did is unthinkable in today's game. The teammates of that player wouldn't stand for it. The coaches on the team wouldn't stand for it. If it ever got to the point where a player was staring down an official like Serena did to that lineswoman, you'd have coaches and fellow teammates disciplining that player themselves. It just would never get to the point where you had a player brandishing his fist or the football at an official. Unthinkable. These are not thugs on the football field. Goodell has done a good job of getting rid of the thugs already. See the case of Adam Jones.

But, let's imagine something like that were allowed to happen. The facts are that players have received multi-game suspensions for much less and even for behavior off the field that the Commissioner (Goodell) considers detrimental to the image of the game. The policy that prescribes the conduct of all NFL players since the onset of the current regime at the Commissioner's Office can be found at the website of the NFL Players Association. Though that policy does not prescribe specific penalties for conduct detrimental to the image of the game, the current Commissioner has already set precedents that allow us to prefigure how things might go for someone who wanted to follow in Serena's example. If Plaxico Burress received an indefinite suspension without pay for accidentally shooting himself with his own gun inside a New York night club, what do you suppose the penalty would be for a player who verbally- and physically-threatened an official during a nationally-televised NFL game? (FYI, all NFL games are nationally-televised insofar as they are presented by DirectTV with their NFL Sunday Package). I'm thinking in the order of a 6-week to one-year suspension. At the prescribed, veteran minimum salary, at 6 weeks you'd almost certainly total more than $92,000 in lost salary and that's even before the Commissioner levied whatever fine he thought would be necessary.

Mary was right. Pam was wrong.

pokey camp
Jan 21st, 2010, 09:22 AM
How on hell would she steal from America by not changing her citizenship?:spit:
According to Ted? Because she used American resources to hone her tennis skills, she is stealing by not giving back in the way of citizenship. He went on this long diatribe about how she left her country, came here and used American resources, then turned around and declared herself Russian when in his opinion she's "as American as he is." He complains about Maria being not a real Russian on tv pretty frequently, but he said that bit of nonsense on a local sports talk radio show where he's a regular guest host. (I would guess because he knew that it wasn't going to get back to her.) Then he turned around and smiled in her face like he was her biggest fan when she showed up in the booth at the USO.

Yeah, Ted loves Maria alright. :rolleyes: :lol:

Interrupting live tennis for interviews? :o :help:
It's ESPN. The actual tennis match, football game, basketball game, etc. is always secondary. Appealing the holy "casual fan" is primary.

The Witch-king
Jan 21st, 2010, 09:49 AM
According to Ted? Because she used American resources to hone her tennis skills, she is stealing by not giving back in the way of citizenship. He went on this long diatribe about how she left her country, came here and used American resources, then turned around and declared herself Russian when in his opinion she's "as American as he is." He complains about Maria being not a real Russian on tv pretty frequently, but he said that bit of nonsense on a local sports talk radio show where he's a regular guest host. (I would guess because he knew that it wasn't going to get back to her.) Then he turned around and smiled in her face like he was her biggest fan when she showed up in the booth at the USO.

Yeah, Ted loves Maria alright. :rolleyes: :lol:


It's ESPN. The actual tennis match, football game, basketball game, etc. is always secondary. Appealing the holy "casual fan" is primary.

wow can't believe he is allowed to say such an ignorant thing on tv

LDVTennis
Jan 21st, 2010, 09:51 AM
:spit: I had to stop reading right there because OBVIOUSLY you've never seen, heard, been to a professional football game. :lol: :lol:

Taunting and trash talking happens on EVERY PLAY in the NFL. EVERY. PLAY. If you can't see that, you're blind. I know this from players AND from watching. It's obvious. Official only call the MOST egregious cases. You MUST be blind. I challenge you to watch a playoff game this weekend (if in fact you do watch football) and come back and tell me all the taunting got called. :lol:

You know nothing of the game.

You are going to regret those last words.

So, according to you, there is no penalty in the NFL Rule Book for Taunting. It is so easy owning you, it is not even a challenge.

Then, please refer to this: http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries. Under the category for 15-yard penalties, the last penalty listed is (drum roll please)... for Taunting. This penalty is assessed at the discretion of the game officials, usually for flagrant or prolonged trash-talking, typically the kind that you see at the end of plays or after TD's. However, there's really nothing stopping officials from using the rule to penalize any kind of trash-talking the officials consider in their own minds an obstruction to the flow of the game.

You might also be interested in another penalty on the list, namely the one at the bottom of the list for 15 yards and Automatic Disqualification.

But, let's see. I think you said something about my knowing nothing about the game. :lol::lol::lol:

By the way, how was your first visit to the NFL.com? Another one of Jerry's many ideas. Once your done reading the rules of the NFL, come over and visit some of us real football fans at BloggingtheBoys. We like to tear fools like you a new one. Now, how's that for trash talking.

The Witch-king
Jan 21st, 2010, 09:51 AM
Yeah, but I doubt the janitor has much say. :shrug:

:haha: ack ack ack ack ack ack!

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 21st, 2010, 10:29 AM
You are going to regret those last words.

So, according to you, there is no penalty in the NFL Rule Book for Taunting. It is so easy owning you, it is not even a challenge.

Then, please refer to this: http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries. Under the category for 15-yard penalties, the last penalty listed is (drum roll please)... for Taunting. This penalty is assessed at the discretion of the game officials, usually for flagrant or prolonged trash-talking, typically the kind that you see at the end of plays or after TD's. However, there's really nothing stopping officials from using the rule to penalize any kind of trash-talking the officials consider in their own minds an obstruction to the flow of the game.

You might also be interested in another penalty on the list, namely the one at the bottom of the list for 15 yards and Automatic Disqualification.

But, let's see. I think you said something about my knowing nothing about the game. :lol::lol::lol:

By the way, how was your first visit to the NFL.com? Another one of Jerry's many ideas. Once your done reading the rules of the NFL, come over and visit some of us real football fans at BloggingtheBoys. We like to tear fools like you a new one. Now, how's that for trash talking.

As I said you know nothing. Of course it's in the rule book. I acknowledged that in my previous post, but it's not readily enforced - another point I made in my previous post. Of course you've chosen to ignore that - or maybe just didn't comprehend that :shrug: :lol:

Do you know any REAL PLAYERS who can tell you that PLAYERS talk trash all time and tell you about their REAL EXPERIENCE in the league and not some football fan boys wondering how it really goes down and havin' to read about it in a rule book to claim they know the game.. Have you EVER played the game at any level (and, no. The hours you've logged on Madden don't count)? Or do you just read about it in the rule book? :lol: and "blog with the boys" about it. :lol:

and btw, I don't regret ANY of my words. :lol: What are you, like some kind of cliche' arch Villain, twirling your handlebar mustache, "He, he, he, you're going to regret those last words." :rolleyes:

dinhd82
Jan 21st, 2010, 12:39 PM
Honestly, do that HAVE to show EVERY single AMERICAN player out there and discuss on what that player needs to do to beat these better non-american players? I'm getting sick of it! Did they really think Oudin had a chance to win a match? And just because Dent won a match, did they really have to make a huge deal out of it only to have him get his arse handled the next round? Andy Roddick will not win another slam, so quit hoping!!!

dinhd82
Jan 21st, 2010, 01:16 PM
If ESPN had their way they would show Roddick, all day, every day, all the time. Pat McEnroe would have a field day sucking up and gushing over his pupil.

Drysdale would spend hours and hours interrupting live play just to show some slo mo video of stroke and dissecting it down to the T so that he can listen to himself and his accent all day long!!!!!

Monirena Wiles
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:02 PM
Can I see a show of hands of how many people will be joining me in writing a letter of complaint to ESPN about tonight's coverage of Venus and Serena's matches, and most especially Mary Carillo's slanderous and vicious accusation about Serena?I have the 2003 Australian Open final recorded and it is hard to watch because Mary is so negative. She has been trash talking Serena and Venus for over a decade and I can not believe that people haven't already complained. I will write an old fashioned letter but I want to put it in the hands of somebody that has importance over at ESPN. Does anyone have contact information for sending complaints?

BlameSerena
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:04 PM
*Raises hand*

I'll send an e-mail or does snail mail have the most affect?

darrinbaker00
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:10 PM
I was frustrated and annoyed when they went back and forth criticizing a 7 time GS champion about her play, what she should do, how stubborn she is and whether she should come to net right away or get her ground game solid to give her more chances to get to net (which I agree with, Mary Jo), but come on, it was too long and it teetered toward being excessive negative criticism, until they got it back on a more constructive basis.

It pissed me off when Mary first tried to turn Serena's match into her pulpit to worship at the alter in the Holy Church of Justine. But, what literally took my mind and my eyes off of Serena's match was when Mary ripped Serena to shreds:timebomb: for a period of 20 minutes straight or what seemed like a very long time. She was foaming at the mouth with hate and vengence, and tears were running down my face because I was so mad :fiery: wanted to jump in the TV and shove that fucking microphone down her fucking throat. :sobbing:

Thank you Pam. :worship: Thank you. You get a whole lot of political capital and cool points with me for doing that and you will get some slack in the future. But Mary...hehehe :hehehe:

Can I see a show of hands of how many people will be joining me in writing a letter of complaint to ESPN about tonight's coverage of Venus and Serena's matches, and most especially Mary Carillo's slanderous and vicious accusation about Serena?
Please tell me you were joking with this post, De. If not, please see a therapist.

kiwifan
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:26 PM
I don't know any Australian kickers but I know a South African punter. Who are you kidding? Your bio says you live in New Zealand. Just how many NFL players an officials live in New Zealand. There are a number of kickers in the NFL from Australia, but I doubt you even know who those guys are. :lol::lol::lol:Way to show your ass...

...I went to high school with 3 guys who eventually played pro football. I've actually stood on the sidelines with the Baltimore Ravens in a pre-season match with the New Orleans Saints and as most posters who have half a brain already know...

...My Passport is from the USA, Driver's License is issued by the State of California, I was born in Atlanta, GA...I think that makes me American!!!

Pamela Shriver
Jan 21st, 2010, 02:31 PM
wow can't believe he is allowed to say such an ignorant thing on tv
Oh they've let me say all kindsa crap for years.

dinhd82
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:19 PM
Cliff Drysdale and his slow motion video stroke analysis during live match play & important points will be DEATH OF ME!!!!!

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:48 PM
I have the 2003 Australian Open final recorded and it is hard to watch because Mary is so negative. She has been trash talking Serena and Venus for over a decade and I can not believe that people haven't already complained. I will write an old fashioned letter but I want to put it in the hands of somebody that has importance over at ESPN. Does anyone have contact information for sending complaints?

*Raises hand*

I'll send an e-mail or does snail mail have the most affect?

Appreciate the cooperation. We can all pool our resources to find the right person to communicate our complaints to. I'm going to start with the website and work from there.

Either or both would be good BlameSerena.

Monirena Wiles
Jan 21st, 2010, 04:55 PM
Appreciate the cooperation. We can all pool our resources to find the right person to communicate our complaints to. I'm going to start with the website and work from there.

Either or both would be good BlameSerena.
A physical address would be best. No one pays attention to the online comments.

Lachrymarum
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:05 PM
My biggest complaint (which I'm sure has already been discussed) is the overall lack of tennis coverage. Way too much time is spent with the commentators who beat a dead horse with the same crappy discussions.
How I miss the days of actually seeing bits and pieces of various matches being played instead of anticipating one freaking match with highlights of Andy Roddick filling most of the air time. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:12 PM
Please tell me you were joking with this post, De. If not, please see a therapist.

Thanks for your "concern" darrin, but I will be fine. :wavey:

Do you seriuosly not get how terribly ironic you are being right now? You're telling me to see a therapist for posting my thoughts and views on the situation for which the thread was created and you're not only complaining about my complaints, but taking umbridge with the fact that I don't see things the way you do in the situation. That if the commentary bothers me that much I should turn my TV off or switch the channel. Mind you, I'm a tennis fan and we are talking about changing the channel from watching a GS while my fave is playing to watching some other programming. :weirdo: That somehow I'm obligated to explain myself and my reasonings to you and that because you don't understand those reasons, I'm supposed to see a therapist. Does that sound like someone who should be suggesting for someone else to see a therapist? :unsure:

You have to understand that your feelings on the matter are irrelevant and your suggestions are just as ridiculous as they are irrelevant. You're entitled to have your opinion on the matter. You're entitled to have your opinion about other poster's opinions, but in doing so, you must understand that your opinion is irrelevant.

brickhousesupporter
Jan 21st, 2010, 05:12 PM
I don't know any Australian kickers but I know a South African punter. Way to show your ass...

...I went to high school with 3 guys who eventually played pro football. I've actually stood on the sidelines with the Baltimore Ravens in a pre-season match with the New Orleans Saints and as most posters who have half a brain already know...

...My Passport is from the USA, Driver's License is issued by the State of California, I was born in Atlanta, GA...I think that makes me American!!!
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af19/rudeboy77/Gifs/Wigsnatch2.gif