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View Full Version : Just to make it clear : can we make a list of "pushers"


frenchie
May 14th, 2009, 11:49 PM
Because it's becoming the new "IN" thing to say about your least favorite players.

(lol I'm sure every top 50 player will get mentionned)

Tennisation
May 14th, 2009, 11:57 PM
Venus Williams on clay :o

DragonFlame
May 15th, 2009, 12:00 AM
Well, somehow almost all the 10-20 ranked youngsters are being considered like that lately...

Cornet
Wozniacki
Cibulkova
Radwanska

Jankovic(well, less now. but she was considered like this before)

I think people need to learn these players are not fully developed yet, and have the talent to show us great things in the future. It usually takes players with a more complex game(that is not based on power) to develop longer(jelena, amelie, vera and justine), yet they are able to show great stuff in the long run.

Slutiana
May 15th, 2009, 12:00 AM
Cornet x9430823

Dunlop1
May 15th, 2009, 12:00 AM
I'm not sure why people use the term as a pejorative. Afterall, one who plays a style that is likely to be deemed pushing, will generally have good tennis IQ and court sense. They have to since they cannot rely on sheer power to overwhelm their opponents.

The best is when one can combine 'pushing' characteristics with great shotmaking. You end up with Justine :hearts:

Slutiana
May 15th, 2009, 12:01 AM
I'm not sure why people use the term as a perjorative. Afterall, one who plays a style that is likely to be deemed pushing, will generally have good tennis IQ and court sense. They have to since they cannot rely on sheer power to overwhelm their opponents.

The best is when one can combine 'pushing' characteristics with great shotmaking. You end up with Justine :hearts:
Or Tati. :tears:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
May 15th, 2009, 12:01 AM
Shahar Peer

frenchie
May 15th, 2009, 12:02 AM
So pushers = consistent players who hits with a good amount of topspin and are confortable on clay

Is it a good definition?

Optima
May 15th, 2009, 12:06 AM
Anyone who thinks Jelena was a pusher "back then" clearly didn't see her reach the semis of the 06 US Open.

Alizé Molik
May 15th, 2009, 12:07 AM
anyone who can keep the ball in the court longer than 2 shots.

Natash.
May 15th, 2009, 12:07 AM
Cibulkova is not a pusher. :shrug: :( :ras:

Caro plays like a pusher most of the time.

Shahar is a good one to add I guess.

DragonFlame
May 15th, 2009, 12:07 AM
The best is when one can combine 'pushing' characteristics with great shotmaking. You end up with Justine :hearts:

Unfortunatly to create a justine, you need much more then that. :sad: If it was that easy, i would be much happier with tennis then i am right now. :lol:

volta
May 15th, 2009, 12:07 AM
smashnova

Alizé Molik
May 15th, 2009, 12:07 AM
Anyone who thinks Jelena was a pusher "back then" clearly didn't see her reach the semis of the 06 US Open.

I think frenchie was talking about when she started on the tour after being a promising junior.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
May 15th, 2009, 12:07 AM
Gilles Simon

MechWarrior2k
May 15th, 2009, 12:09 AM
Here's my list:
Bartoli - watch the 2007 Wimby semifinal vs Henin
Zvonareva - watch the 2009 IW final vs Ivanovic
Jankovic - probably the most boring player to watch (2+ hours of her hitting rally ball forehands and hoping the opponent coughs up a UE)
Radwanska
Wozniacki
Sugiyama - debatable since she does have an all-court mindset at times and is one of the more intelligent players on the tour
Schnyder
Mauresmo
Navarro - based on what little I've seen of her play

Optima
May 15th, 2009, 12:11 AM
Here's my list:
Bartoli - watch the 2007 Wimby semifinal vs Henin
Zvonareva - watch the 2009 IW final vs Ivanovic
Jankovic - probably the most boring player to watch (2+ hours of her hitting rally ball forehands and hoping the opponent coughs up a UE)
Radwanska
Wozniacki
Sugiyama - debatable since she does have an all-court mindset at times and is one of the more intelligent players on the tour
Schnyder
Mauresmo

:rolls:

Natash.
May 15th, 2009, 12:11 AM
Bartoli? :help:

And Vera played that match the way it had to be played. Wind was absolutely insane.

Dave B
May 15th, 2009, 12:11 AM
Mary Ho Fernandez. She just keeps her comments safe and waits until No Slam Pam Shriver comes up with something controversial.

frenchie
May 15th, 2009, 12:12 AM
LOL

that's what I said
Everybody is coming with different names, putting their least favorite players as if it was an insult

Bartoli, JJ, radwanska, Zvonareva, Cornet, Cibulkova are definitely NOT pushers:rolleyes:

The only name I agree with is Smashnova

Shvedbarilescu
May 15th, 2009, 12:13 AM
I live in Shepherd's Bush in London. And I believe they are a number of pushers nearby in White City. But I don't believe they play tennis. I also don't know any of these individuals personally so I can't give any names. And even if I could I think it would probably be a bit dangerous to do so.

Craig.
May 15th, 2009, 12:15 AM
LOL

that's what I said
Everybody is coming with different names, putting their least favorite players as if it was an insult

Bartoli, JJ, radwanska, Zvonareva, Cornet, Cibulkova are definitely NOT pushers:rolleyes:

The only name I agree with is Smashnova

Bartoli - No.
JJ - No.
Radwanska - Debatable (but I'd lean towards no).
Zvonareva - No.
Cornet - A big fat YES.
Cibulkova - Debatable.

Dunlop1
May 15th, 2009, 12:16 AM
So pushers = consistent players who hits with a good amount of topspin and are confortable on clay

Is it a good definition?

Characteristics of a counterpuncher (more appropriate term than pusher)
- Very good fitness. Can run all day
- Non-attacking. Will not serve and volley
- Good margin on their shots. Not necessarily a lot of topspin (e.g Lleyton Hewitt) but enough margin for them to not make a lot of errors.
- More concerned with getting the ball back than going for winners (they will go for it when it is the clear choice)
- Have a very good lob
- The serve is a means to start the point. Great counterpuncher will beef up the first serve and win cheap points this way though.
- They rarely change direction on an 'outside' ball

Marcelo.
May 15th, 2009, 12:16 AM
:spit:

Marion Bartoli , a pusher :spit: :rolls::rolls:

Dunlop1
May 15th, 2009, 12:17 AM
Gilles Simon

He is the archetypal counterpuncher.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
May 15th, 2009, 12:17 AM
The french pushers .... Cornet , Pin , Santoro , Benneteau , Simon

frenchie
May 15th, 2009, 12:18 AM
The term pusher is way over-used anyway!

MechWarrior2k
May 15th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Bartoli? :help:

And Vera played that match the way it had to be played. Wind was absolutely insane.

I have nothing against Vera. :) True she had to play rather "patient" at Indian Wells. Compared to her Russian compatriots, her game is pusher-like. That's actually helped her move up the ranks. Now if she can just avoid injuries...

Bartoli can hit hard off both wings, but she seems intent to hit reactionary shots all day without dictating pace and without purpose much of the time. Look what happens when she faces Azarenka or even Zvonareva: BEATDOWN

Slutiana
May 15th, 2009, 12:19 AM
Gilles hit 35 winners today, pusher? I think not.

Dunlop1
May 15th, 2009, 12:19 AM
Here's my list:
Bartoli - watch the 2007 Wimby semifinal vs Henin
Zvonareva - watch the 2009 IW final vs Ivanovic
Jankovic - probably the most boring player to watch (2+ hours of her hitting rally ball forehands and hoping the opponent coughs up a UE)
Radwanska
Wozniacki
Sugiyama - debatable since she does have an all-court mindset at times and is one of the more intelligent players on the tour
Schnyder
Mauresmo
Navarro - based on what little I've seen of her play

Umm do you have a clue what you are talking about?

Mauresmo????????? A serve&volleyer is a pusher, because she has a topsin forehand that can get loopy? :help:
Not to mention the rest of your list...

homogenius
May 15th, 2009, 12:19 AM
This "pushers vs ballbashers" war is funny.
As if on tour, everyone was playing like either Pin or K-Sprem.

Lunaris
May 15th, 2009, 12:20 AM
Characteristics of a counterpuncher (more appropriate term than pusher)
This is a common mistake. Counterpunching and pushing are quite difrerent.

delicatecutter
May 15th, 2009, 12:22 AM
Wozniacki is the only true pusher, as in she has no offensive mindset whatsoever. She's not even a counter-puncher. She is merely content to get the ball back and rarely even tries to do anything with it. It's like Kleybanova's coach said, "She doesn't do ANYTHING!"

There are probably other girls like this, but I haven't seen any of them play. Except maybe Meusburger.

volta
May 15th, 2009, 12:24 AM
This is a common mistake. Counterpunching and pushing are quite difrerent.

I agree.

frenchie
May 15th, 2009, 12:24 AM
This "pushers vs ballbashers" war is funny.
As if on tour, everyone was playing like either Pin or K-Sprem.

that's what I wanted to point out

Everytime a consistent player enjoys some success, the same old BS appears on here
"She can't hit winners"
"She's not a threat to the top players"
"Her opponents beat themselves"
and of course "she's a pusher"

In the last few months, nearly all the players have been mentionned as pushers at least once with no real reason??

Lachrymarum
May 15th, 2009, 12:25 AM
Characteristics of a counterpuncher (more appropriate term than pusher)
- Very good fitness. Can run all day
- Non-attacking. Will not serve and volley
- Good margin on their shots. Not necessarily a lot of topspin (e.g Lleyton Hewitt) but enough margin for them to not make a lot of errors.
- More concerned with getting the ball back than going for winners (they will go for it when it is the clear choice)
- Have a very good lob
- The serve is a means to start the point. Great counterpuncher will beef up the first serve and win cheap points this way though.
- They rarely change direction on an 'outside' ball
What I hate is that people on this board consider counterpunchers & "pushers" (hate the term) as something negative.
In my opinion someone who has great fitness and can return a lot of balls is very much a weapon. Tennis isn't all about power shots.

Dawn Marie
May 15th, 2009, 12:26 AM
The true pusher on tour at the moment is Caroline.

Pushers can be destoryed with a more aggressive player. They can't stand serve and volley opponents. They sit at the back of the court pushing balls back with no mind set of ending the point on their terms. Their style of play is defensive defense and DEFEND. They wait and wait on the opponent to miss.
Wozniacki is a PUSHER.

duhcity
May 15th, 2009, 12:27 AM
omg serena and venus and safina only hit hard once in a while and then they stop hitting hard and they start pushing the ball. /sarcasm

blahblahblabhalbabhblablh. You don't like their style of play. Pusher can be just as bad as a "baseline player with an extremely stressful game that causes shoulder and other body problems at a young age, in which the only cure is to be a part time player and show up the the 4 slams and other top various tournaments because you're style of play would otherwise kill you"

Serena seemed pushy in the match against Schnyder. But she was an absolute monster against Dinara at the AO.

Tripp
May 15th, 2009, 12:27 AM
So basically anyone who uses a little bit of tactics in a match and doesn't go for the winner in every shot is a pusher...right?

Some people here seriously need to learn about tennis. I wonder how many of the people who keep coming up with these things have actually played tennis at some point of their lifes.

MechWarrior2k
May 15th, 2009, 12:28 AM
I agree.

Privet! :) B iyule ya budu ekhat na Ukrainu. I've been to Kiev, Kherson, Nikolaev, Donetsk, Lugansk, Yalta, Feodosiya, Simferopol, and Odessa before. Dyevuski ochen krasivie. ;) Food is also good. =)

iPatty
May 15th, 2009, 12:29 AM
Among the Top100:

Wozniacki
Schnyder (towards the latter part of her career)
Peer
Cetkovska
Dominguez Lino

Not as many as people think.

Spiritof42
May 15th, 2009, 12:30 AM
Mary Ho Fernandez. She just keeps her comments safe and waits until No Slam Pam Shriver comes up with something controversial.

I live in Shepherd's Bush in London. And I believe they are a number of pushers nearby in White City. But I don't believe they play tennis. I also don't know any of these individuals personally so I can't give any names. And even if I could I think it would probably be a bit dangerous to do so.

:lol:

After all the BS and mud-slinging about Wozniacki's game that's been going today, I think humor is the only sensible reply at this point.

goldenlox
May 15th, 2009, 12:32 AM
The 1st player I think of is Ai. With these rackets and strings, all of them can hit hard when they want to

volta
May 15th, 2009, 12:33 AM
Privet! :) B iyule ya budu ekhat na Ukrainu. I've been to Kiev, Kherson, Nikolaev, Donetsk, Lugansk, Yalta, Feodosiya, Simferopol, and Odessa before. Dyevuski ochen krasivie. ;) Food is also good. =)

Oh im portuguese im just using Ukraines flag because i like how it looks with my avatar :lol: :hug:

Dunlop1
May 15th, 2009, 12:39 AM
What I hate is that people on this board consider counterpunchers/"pushers" as something negative.
In my opinion someone who has great fitness and can return a lot of balls is very much a weapon. Tennis isn't all about power shots.

Of course. Tennis is a game of who made the least errors, not most winners.

The 'One-more-ball' strategy can be very effective against offensive players.
You consistently make them play one more ball until they either hit a winner or make an error. You of course MUST be of great fitness and have the ability to give your opponent the kind of ball they don't like, in terms of height, spin and pace.

squig2k
May 15th, 2009, 12:47 AM
I live in Shepherd's Bush in London. And I believe they are a number of pushers nearby in White City. But I don't believe they play tennis. I also don't know any of these individuals personally so I can't give any names. And even if I could I think it would probably be a bit dangerous to do so.

have you played on the clay courts in white city? im thinking of playing there soon :cool:

Leo_DFP
May 15th, 2009, 12:49 AM
Anyone who thinks Jelena was a pusher "back then" clearly didn't see her reach the semis of the 06 US Open.

Agreed. Her style of play has change. The summer of '06 was her tennis peak. But the US Open '08 run was her peak in terms of playing defensive tennis - she got everything back all the time.

Leo_DFP
May 15th, 2009, 12:52 AM
Well, somehow almost all the 10-20 ranked youngsters are being considered like that lately...

Cornet
Wozniacki
Cibulkova
Radwanska

Jankovic(well, less now. but she was considered like this before)


It's interesting but true. A new group of top tennis prospects and not a single big weapon among them - at least not these 4. Azarenka and Kleybanova have big weapons... and who else among the youngsters?

It's an interesting comparison to the late 90s and early 2000s, when almost all the up-and-coming starlets were power players. I'm thinking the Williams, Lucic, Dokic, Bovina, Petrova, etc.

Lunaris
May 15th, 2009, 12:55 AM
Because it's becoming the new "IN" thing to say about your least favorite players.

(lol I'm sure every top 50 player will get mentionned)
I don't understand your problem. When you attack players like Vaidisova for being "brainless ballbashers" everything is ok. But when someone else hates on pushers it suddenly becomes an issue.

cellophane
May 15th, 2009, 01:16 AM
Bartoli a pusher? Good one! :help:

Pasta-Na
May 15th, 2009, 01:17 AM
meng yuans not a pusher. :p

pepaw
May 15th, 2009, 01:20 AM
even wozniackis match point today was just waiting for kleybanova to hit it out. shes the worst pusher of all.

Uranium
May 15th, 2009, 01:22 AM
No one mentioned Sara Errani:eek:

Errani and Peer.

pepaw
May 15th, 2009, 01:24 AM
peer can be quite aggressive in some matches that ive seen (not that ive seen a lot).

radwanska can be a pusher but at least she is nice to watch unlike wozniacki.

DA FOREHAND
May 15th, 2009, 01:29 AM
no such thing exist in the top 20

starin
May 15th, 2009, 01:38 AM
Serena :o:o
Venus:o:o

miffedmax
May 15th, 2009, 01:44 AM
Jen's pot dealer, Flavia's pot dealer and Martina's coke dealer are all pushers.

Junex
May 15th, 2009, 01:59 AM
Jen's pot dealer, Flavia's pot dealer and Martina's coke dealer are all pushers.

That is what i was thinking.
and in here, we usually give them double life sentence!!!!!

Dawn Marie
May 15th, 2009, 02:18 AM
Radwanska is not a pusher. Nor are the following. Ai,Vera Z,Jelena J, Peer,Patty S and Marion.
Wtf? They play aggressive at times. They get the ball back and still play offensive tennis.

Caroline is though a Pusher. Imho her game needs to be revamped some. She should also focus on going for more of her shots.

switz
May 15th, 2009, 02:34 AM
i'd much rather be a "pusher" than an armchair critic on a message board ranting about the merits of an elite athlete's style of play.

they should create a forum on this board for posters who have too much stay despite knowing nothing about tennis. oh wait, that's General Messages :o

Dawson.
May 15th, 2009, 02:58 AM
I hate the term pusher :mad:
You don't "push" your way into the top 10, that rules out Radwanks and Wozniacki first of all.
I've never understood people calling Cornet a pusher either. Yes she can be overly defensive at times, but she can generate a huge amount of spin and power on her forehand that can cause trouble for any opponent. Anyone remember her at the olympics .vs. Serena?
People calling Cibulkova a pusher are too retarded too see that the girl is little over 5 foot tall! Do you honestly expect her to have the groundstrokes of a Davenport or Sharapova?
And LOL at the guy calling Bartoli, Zvonareva and Mauresmo pushers! :rolls:

delicatecutter
May 15th, 2009, 03:09 AM
Sorry, but today's results have shown that you can indeed "push" your way into the Top 10. You just have to play a lot of tournaments, win some of the MM ones, and be consistent.

I'm shock and awe that Petrova was still even in the Top 10 about now. Being in the top 10 in these days, with this field, isn't much of an achievement.

I think it's telling that Wozniacki can't even beat Kuznetsova, who is usually a pretty good victim when it comes to Top 10 wins.

janksta
May 15th, 2009, 03:13 AM
Sveta (and Serena, when she feels like it) are power pushers.

Dawson.
May 15th, 2009, 03:14 AM
Sorry, but today's results have shown that you can indeed "push" your way into the Top 10. You just have to play a lot of tournaments, win some of the MM ones, and be consistent.

I notice you have Radwanksa in your sig, do you think she pushed her way into the top 10 too? :confused: She seems to be called a pusher just as much as Wozniacki :shrug:

Pheobo
May 15th, 2009, 03:15 AM
I don't understand why being a "pusher" is such a negative thing...it's just a strategy to win the game and some players are very good at it. I mean, these people are trying to make a living doing something that works for them...and if it does work, what's wrong with that?

delicatecutter
May 15th, 2009, 03:19 AM
I notice you have Radwanksa in your sig, do you think she pushed her way into the top 10 too? :confused: She seems to be called a pusher just as much as Wozniacki :shrug:

I don't. Radwanska is not a pusher, but I have a very strict interpretation of the term. To me, the only pusher I've ever seen of note is Wozniacki.

Radwanska has a very diverse and enjoyable game. She's in the Hingis/Chakvetadze mode of a player who utilizes great strategy and sense of the court to break their opponents down. Radwanska also has GS wins over GS champions such as Sharapova (:bowdown: for that one.. she single-handedly saved the 07 USO) and Kuznetsova. I doubt Wozniacki will ever be able to beat either of those two players, at least when it counts.

LudwigDvorak
May 15th, 2009, 03:22 AM
Sorry, but today's results have shown that you can indeed "push" your way into the Top 10. You just have to play a lot of tournaments, win some of the MM ones, and be consistent.

I'm shock and awe that Petrova was still even in the Top 10 about now. Being in the top 10 in these days, with this field, isn't much of an achievement.

I think it's telling that Wozniacki can't even beat Kuznetsova, who is usually a pretty good victim when it comes to Top 10 wins.

I dislike Wozniacki close to as much as you do, but she is not a pusher. She does not have the defensive skills or topspin to effectively be referred to as a pusher. She doesn't hit many winners, and she has a loopy forehand, but I've seen Elena win matches with as few as eight winners hitting the ball hard and early anyway, just like Caroline's match against Alisa today with her eight winners.

She's a counterpuncher. But considering how raw Wozniacki's game still is, I wouldn't be surprised to see her develop more in the future. Still, I've seen her hit big serves and backhands. She isn't bad at approaching the net either--she hit some lovely volleys against Dementieva in Charleston.

Errani is the only player in the top 100 I would consider to be a "pusher," and I've still seen her be aggressive with the forehand when she gets a short ball.

Dawson.
May 15th, 2009, 03:34 AM
I don't. Radwanska is not a pusher, but I have a very strict interpretation of the term. To me, the only pusher I've ever seen of note is Wozniacki.

Radwanska has a very diverse and enjoyable game. She's in the Hingis/Chakvetadze mode of a player who utilizes great strategy and sense of the court to break their opponents down. Radwanska also has GS wins over GS champions such as Sharapova (:bowdown: for that one.. she single-handedly saved the 07 USO) and Kuznetsova. I doubt Wozniacki will ever be able to beat either of those two players.

Oh the same Kuznetsova who you said was a gimmie as far as top 10 wins go in your previous post? At least have some consistancy in your argument. You cannot apply one rule to a player and not the other. I agree with you about Radwanksa's game, she's definately not a puhser, but the same can be said of Wozniacki too. In terms of career achivements, Wozniacki is ahead of Radwanksa for her age. Who's to say it's going to slow down from here? She may surpass Radwanksa in every respect in the long run :shrug:

Kovalchuk
May 15th, 2009, 05:13 AM
Errani is a moonballer, Simon should play WTA.

Cakeisgood
May 15th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Monfils sometimes is sooooo boring to watch.

MechWarrior2k
May 15th, 2009, 05:53 AM
The french pushers .... Cornet , Pin , Santoro , Benneteau , Simon

You forgot the player with HUGE pusher tendencies: Monfils. Gasquet is just a one-weapon pony and pedestrian everywhere else. Conchita is the alpha mommy for the Spanish pushers (*cough*Ferrer, Robredo*cough*).

darkangel5452
May 15th, 2009, 06:17 AM
Myskina(and she won a Slam, what a shame)
Radwanska(always 5 feet behind the baseline)
Wozniacki(she won 6262 over Nova and she made 3 winners in the first set, players like Sharapova will always beat 6061 Doha Davenport 6062)
Cornet(always running and running):rolleyes:

MechWarrior2k
May 15th, 2009, 06:17 AM
Umm do you have a clue what you are talking about?

Mauresmo????????? A serve&volleyer is a pusher, because she has a topsin forehand that can get loopy? :help:
Not to mention the rest of your list...

Mauresmo is not a serve and volleyer, not in the classical sense anyway. She has a nice backhand though she gets slice happy with it at times. She had more of an all-court type game, but age and injuries have caught up to her. Historically she wouldn't be a pusher but looking at the past 2 years her game has become more defensive (outside of playing the Paris indoor event).

homogenius
May 15th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Here's my list:
Bartoli - watch the 2007 Wimby semifinal vs Henin
Zvonareva - watch the 2009 IW final vs Ivanovic
Jankovic - probably the most boring player to watch (2+ hours of her hitting rally ball forehands and hoping the opponent coughs up a UE)
Radwanska
Wozniacki
Sugiyama - debatable since she does have an all-court mindset at times and is one of the more intelligent players on the tour
Schnyder
Mauresmo
Navarro - based on what little I've seen of her play

:weirdo:

Kim's_fan_4ever
May 15th, 2009, 07:06 AM
Dushevina :tape: Definition of a pusher.
Anyone who watched her match against Schiavone, knows what I'm talking about :tape:

Bartoli a pusher? :spit:

Golovinjured.
May 15th, 2009, 07:16 AM
Wozniacki, Errani and Peer are pushers, and I tend to think Cornet is one too. Schnyder is not a bonafide pusher, but at times she's been prone to getting too passive.

Beat
May 15th, 2009, 07:30 AM
Here's my list:
Bartoli - watch the 2007 Wimby semifinal vs Henin
Zvonareva - watch the 2009 IW final vs Ivanovic
Jankovic - probably the most boring player to watch (2+ hours of her hitting rally ball forehands and hoping the opponent coughs up a UE)
Radwanska
Wozniacki
Sugiyama - debatable since she does have an all-court mindset at times and is one of the more intelligent players on the tour
Schnyder
Mauresmo
Navarro - based on what little I've seen of her play

my dear, i think it's fair to say YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG.

Cp6uja
May 15th, 2009, 08:14 AM
People here always complain against everything :(
Current moment of womens tennis is so exciting... it's great to follow A:zzz:arenka and :zzz:vonareva 2009 domination. This week in Madrid we have one TOP10 breakthrough (Wo:zzz:niacki) and also some still young players like Chakvetad:zzz:e or S:zzz:avay is finally back. Clay surface always favor good defenders so please don't be too offensive using again and again that "pushers" term, especially against new faces which is future of WTA. When in 2007 at clay we watch rise of young Agnies:zzz:ka or Pas:zzz:ek, or last season from Ali:zzz:e or Suare:zzz: Navarro instead big support we have here loud complains and protests where "pushers" is "crucial" argument.

:(

BrokewingsPrince
May 15th, 2009, 08:19 AM
Li Na
Sania Mirza
Nicole Vaidisova
Calolina Sprem

moby
May 15th, 2009, 08:25 AM
Monaco and Verdasco?

In a 7-5 first set to Verdasco:
Verdasco hit 10 winners 21 UEs
Monaco hit 5 winners 20 UEs

:tape:

A lot of crappy moonballing in this match too. (Watching delayed telecast now.)

Golovinjured.
May 15th, 2009, 08:29 AM
People here always complain against everything :(
Current moment of womens tennis is so exciting... it's great to follow A:zzz:arenka and :zzz:vonareva 2009 domination. This week in Madrid we have one TOP10 breakthrough (Wo:zzz:niacki) and also some still young players like Chakvetad:zzz:e or S:zzz:avay is finally back. Clay surface always favor good defenders so please don't be too offensive using again and again that "pushers" term, especially against new faces which is future of WTA. When in 2007 at clay we watch rise of young Agnies:zzz:ka or Pas:zzz:ek, or last season from Ali:zzz:e or Suare:zzz: Navarro instead big support we have here loud complains and protests where "pushers" is "crucial" argument.

:(

:spit:

fouc
May 15th, 2009, 08:31 AM
Oh the same Kuznetsova who you said was a gimmie as far as top 10 wins go in your previous post? At least have some consistancy in your argument. You cannot apply one rule to a player and not the other. I agree with you about Radwanksa's game, she's definately not a puhser, but the same can be said of Wozniacki too. In terms of career achivements, Wozniacki is ahead of Radwanksa for her age. Who's to say it's going to slow down from here? She may surpass Radwanksa in every respect in the long run :shrug:

There is really not much that can be said both of Radwanska and Wozniacki, besides polish origins and fast way to top 10. The fact that they are close in rankings and in achievements doesn't mean that their game is similar, and in fact it is not. Wozniacki is not anywhere close to Agnieszka's variety and sense of court. I don't like the 'pusher' term, but she indeed quite often applies 'pushing strategy'. Kleybanova's coach stated that and I remember Urszula Radwanska screaming 'she is just pushing the ball!' in their recent match (Caro won 71 points there and Ula had 51 UE). That's her game plan, she deliberately 'just pushes the ball' against some players because she knows it can be very effective. And to be such an effective pusher you have to have superb defensive skills at your disposal. Radwanska doesn't have them. When she's just pushing (it rarely happens) she's losing. Caroline can push and win.

Having said that, I am aware of Caro's great backhand, and there were lot of matches, where she played aggressively. It's just if she wants to, she is in the best position to be a perfect pusher :)

I would also mention Vera Dushevina and Lourdes Dominiguez Lino

Sammm
May 15th, 2009, 09:11 AM
Anyone see the interview Wozniacki gave on the highlights reel for Madrid yesterday? She said she wanted to be number one. :sobbing: :haha: She really is a pusher and I don't mind her, but if she gets to number one then...

Matt01
May 15th, 2009, 09:57 AM
What an idiot thread this is. :rolleyes:

The Dawntreader
May 15th, 2009, 10:00 AM
The term 'pusher' just means an ultra-defensive player who has no aggressive shot-making at their disposal. It's hardly a negative description if it's true.

:lol: at someone calling Sugiyama a pusher! She's one of the most efficient baseliners on tour- still!

hablo
May 15th, 2009, 10:29 AM
Well, somehow almost all the 10-20 ranked youngsters are being considered like that lately...

Cornet
Wozniacki
Cibulkova
Radwanska

Jankovic(well, less now. but she was considered like this before)

I think people need to learn these players are not fully developed yet, and have the talent to show us great things in the future. It usually takes players with a more complex game(that is not based on power) to develop longer(jelena, amelie, vera and justine), yet they are able to show great stuff in the long run.

Did you see Momo's game when she first came on tour? It was powerful (watch her match vs Davenport at the AO in 1999)! It only after certain comments that it changed. :bolt:

Alex03Maccy
May 15th, 2009, 10:33 AM
whoever said mauresmo is a pusher is clearly blind.

hablo
May 15th, 2009, 10:42 AM
I believe the term in vogue was "moonballer" and frenchie used it a lot (he knows towards whom :rolleyes: ); now it has evolved to pusher and that same poster can't handle it since it's directed towards his favourites. :haha:

~Cherry*Blossom~
May 15th, 2009, 10:56 AM
Venus Williams on clay :o


:haha:

:sobbing:

pav
May 15th, 2009, 10:57 AM
There have been times when I have been called a Puller :eek:,but don't know about this Pusher business :confused:

FORZA SARITA
May 15th, 2009, 12:22 PM
nobody beats LDL :)

terjw
May 15th, 2009, 01:23 PM
Sorry, but today's results have shown that you can indeed "push" your way into the Top 10. You just have to play a lot of tournaments, win some of the MM ones, and be consistent.

I'm shock and awe that Petrova was still even in the Top 10 about now. Being in the top 10 in these days, with this field, isn't much of an achievement.

I think it's telling that Wozniacki can't even beat Kuznetsova, who is usually a pretty good victim when it comes to Top 10 wins.

So you think all you have to do is play MM tournaments to get into the top 10. The reason Caro has now just moved into top 10 is she's playing a premier mandatory tornament and got to the semi-finals. While all but 2 of the seeds have crashed out. WD Caro.

Oh and to correct the other nonsense you spout. The first time I saw Caro was when I went to Eastbourne last year. Guess who I watched her beat - Sveta. :lol:

Andiyan
May 15th, 2009, 01:34 PM
People here always complain against everything :(
Current moment of womens tennis is so exciting... it's great to follow A:zzz:arenka and :zzz:vonareva 2009 domination. This week in Madrid we have one TOP10 breakthrough (Wo:zzz:niacki) and also some still young players like Chakvetad:zzz:e or S:zzz:avay is finally back. Clay surface always favor good defenders so please don't be too offensive using again and again that "pushers" term, especially against new faces which is future of WTA. When in 2007 at clay we watch rise of young Agnies:zzz:ka or Pas:zzz:ek, or last season from Ali:zzz:e or Suare:zzz: Navarro instead big support we have here loud complains and protests where "pushers" is "crucial" argument.

:(

Omg :sobbing: :haha: what's with the Z? :lol:

DragonFlame
May 15th, 2009, 02:48 PM
Omg :sobbing: :haha: what's with the Z? :lol:

The Z will become one of wtaworld's 2009 term hits of the year! :lol: (if it goes on like this)

Slutiana
May 15th, 2009, 03:26 PM
What an idiot thread this is. :rolleyes:
This thread isnt a person. :(
People here always complain against everything :(
Current moment of womens tennis is so exciting... it's great to follow A:zzz:arenka and :zzz:vonareva 2009 domination. This week in Madrid we have one TOP10 breakthrough (Wo:zzz:niacki) and also some still young players like Chakvetad:zzz:e or S:zzz:avay is finally back. Clay surface always favor good defenders so please don't be too offensive using again and again that "pushers" term, especially against new faces which is future of WTA. When in 2007 at clay we watch rise of young Agnies:zzz:ka or Pas:zzz:ek, or last season from Ali:zzz:e or Suare:zzz: Navarro instead big support we have here loud complains and protests where "pushers" is "crucial" argument.

:(
Omg. :spit: :sobbing: :crying2:

TeamUla
May 15th, 2009, 03:32 PM
Urszula Radwańska during her match against Wozniacki said: "She's just a pusher". :lol:

Pops Maellard
May 15th, 2009, 03:34 PM
Is Yvonne Meusburger a pusher? I remember watching her play Jankovic at AO earlier this year. Jelena hit 27 winners while she hit 3. :help::lol:

nevetssllim
May 15th, 2009, 03:40 PM
Whoever suggested Bartoli often doesn't watch much tennis! She really is one of the poorest defenders at the top of the game.

allrounder
May 15th, 2009, 03:42 PM
Urszula Radwańska during her match against Wozniacki said: "She's just a pusher". :lol:
Even Caro's own friends hate her game then :lol:

treufreund
May 15th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Well Urszula is a brainless ball basher and Caro's game is boring but she wins a lot more.... Pushers are Anna Smashnova(retired now I believe), Shahar Peer, Caro Wozniacki and Gael Monfils (also has very ugly hair haha)

Experimentee
May 16th, 2009, 03:33 AM
Some players I consider pushers:

Errani
Smashnova
Poutchek
Bammer
Yakimova
Pin
Yuan
Beygelzimer

Experimentee
May 16th, 2009, 03:35 AM
On the men's side Monfils and Simon are pushers.

allrounder
May 25th, 2009, 11:24 PM
Dushevina :tape: Definition of a pusher.
Anyone who watched her match against Schiavone, knows what I'm talking about :tape:
From what i saw of her match today i definitely know what you are talking about :lol:

croat123
May 25th, 2009, 11:26 PM
pusher alert on court 6: sprem vs. dokic :p

StephenUK
May 25th, 2009, 11:34 PM
Is Yvonne Meusburger a pusher? I remember watching her play Jankovic at AO earlier this year. Jelena hit 27 winners while she hit 3. :help::lol:

Meusberger - there was once this really bitchy description of her game in L'Equipe when she was heavily beaten by Mauresmo at one of the slams. It described her as having 'a nineteenth century hairstyle with a game to match' and noted that Amelie 'quickly sent her back to her era'. Ouch! :tape:

MH0861
May 25th, 2009, 11:38 PM
Kirilenko

delicatecutter
May 26th, 2009, 02:06 AM
Wozniacki. I saw her hit one aggressive BH and I almost died from shock and awe.

tiffanykatya.
May 26th, 2009, 02:55 AM
Wozniacki.

Jachal
May 26th, 2009, 05:54 AM
You can tell someone's a pusher, when they just push during a match point in hope, that the other one makes a mistake.

In the pushing department, I think that Cornet and Wozniacki are now the biggest ones. They are just solid as hell and not willing to take a risk. Even if I cheer for them in a match, they can make me very angry with they style of play.

Radwanska, when out of form, ain't a thinker on court, but a pusher too.

Errani is an ultimate pusher. She's like the queen of pushers :devil:

Jankovic, when playing the big girls, also seems like one, but to her credit, she has this amazing backhand, with which she can dictate play, and she does it against the minor players.

Oh, and saying, taht if someone's top 15 and therefor can't be called a pusher is just silly. Look at Smashnova's career!

Sally Todd
May 26th, 2009, 07:15 AM
People here always complain against everything :(
Current moment of womens tennis is so exciting... it's great to follow A:zzz:arenka and :zzz:vonareva 2009 domination. This week in Madrid we have one TOP10 breakthrough (Wo:zzz:niacki) and also some still young players like Chakvetad:zzz:e or S:zzz:avay is finally back. Clay surface always favor good defenders so please don't be too offensive using again and again that "pushers" term, especially against new faces which is future of WTA. When in 2007 at clay we watch rise of young Agnies:zzz:ka or Pas:zzz:ek, or last season from Ali:zzz:e or Suare:zzz: Navarro instead big support we have here loud complains and protests where "pushers" is "crucial" argument.

:(

:spit:

In the running (against a few posts by LoveFifteen and the photoshop in 'Horse Named Chakvetadze') for post of the year.

Wojtek
May 26th, 2009, 07:22 AM
in men = Simon
in women = Myskina

Lunaris
May 26th, 2009, 08:02 AM
Errani is an ultimate pusher. She's like the queen of pushers :devil:
If we were content with your definition of pusher which you wrote in the first sentence of your post then Errani is hardly a pusher, just watch how she played against Ivanovic on sunday. That was no pushing. Of course tiny players usually cannot match big bashers pace of shots wise, especially on fast surfaces, so they kinda have to resort to pushing even if it normally isn't their only gameplan.

@ wojtek: Myskina being labelled as pusher is simple trolling.

Corswandt
May 26th, 2009, 09:57 AM
A definition of "pusher", which also draws useful distinctions between "pushers", "counterpunchers" (which I prefer to call baseline grinders), "moonballers" and "defensive players" or retrievers:

If counter-attacking is using your opponents pace to hit the ball sweetly back with intrest at the opponent, and using your crucial rare moments to hit a bit bigger for the winner - Pusher is the ugly cousin that take away of the pace, with higher percentage, and even when the situation presents itself nicely - they still put the ball back in.
the better pushers tend to hit the ball back and get to the middle of the baseline very quickly.
it must be noticed that pushers are not moonballers and moonballers are not pushers! moonballing, however unappealing as it is - is a specific shot taken as a complete gamestyle stratagy. pushing has no stratagy but to let the other player self distruct. this gamestyle was started due to mentally fragile players emerging some decade ago, as well as plain old fristration and nerves that humans always tend to get at certain times.
this isn't finesse tennis, not on court smartness - hingis could shift her game around - pushers (maybe can but they simply) don't.
it's not defensive tennis - it's stick to one routine tennis. defensive is when someone is attacking them - pushers will push against anyone all the time.

Famous counter-players include Coetzer, Myskina - of recent times probably cibulkova is the best.
famous pushers include Radwanska, Wozniaki and to an extent most of the toung players on tour.

pushing is needed for anyplayer at some points and stages of matches, and it has always been used as well.
but this constant pushing is a newer term.

So a pusher's main traits are playing a high% game and being therefore very consistent, yet also passive by default, and not taking the initiative to attempt to finish off a point even when the opportunity presents itself. If the pusher's opponent isn't particularly aggressive and/or underpowered herself, expect plenty of lengthy rallies with both players not doing much in the way of working the points.

Pushers can be one-dimensional or use some variety here and there, use moonballs to "reset" rallies or merely hit the same shots over and over and over again with metronomic precision. Their key characteristics are the high % play and the lack of initiative. They're usually mentally solid, or seem to be so at least, because their consistency and the simplicity and mechanic repetiveness of their game plan allows them to play on virtual autopilot.

Vamos Feńa
May 26th, 2009, 11:38 AM
Dulgheru can be called a pusher. Smashnova too.