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View Full Version : Another 11-year gay bashed evenually commits suicide


CoolDude7
Apr 21st, 2009, 03:52 PM
This is beyond sad. Almost exactly a week after Carl Walker Hoover Jr. was laid to rest, Jaheem Herrera, an 11 year old Atlanta resident has taken his life in the same manner after enduring constant anti-gay bullying at his Dekalb County school.


The Atlanta Journal Constitution reports:


On Thursday afternoon, after returning home from Dunaire Elementary School, Jaheem quietly went into his room and hanged himself. His 10-year-old sister, Yerralis, also a fifth-grader, discovered Jaheem’s dead body.


Jaheem was bullied relentlessly, his family said. The family knew the boy was a target, but until his death they didn’t understand the scope.


“They called him gay and a snitch,” his stepfather said. “All the time they’d call him this.”


In an interview with WSB-TV, the boy’s mother, Masika Bermudez, also said her son was being bullied at school. She said she had complained to the school.


http://loldarian.blogspot.com/2009/04/anti-gay-bullying-leads-another-11-year.html



She said she asked him about the bullying Thursday when he came home from school and he denied it. She sent him to his room to calm down. It was the last time she would see him alive.


Bermudez told WSB she talked to Jaheem’s best friend about the situation last week.


“He said, ‘Yes ma’am. He told me that he’s tired of everybody always messing with him in school. He is tired of telling the teachers and the staff, and they never do anything about the problems. So, the only way out is by killing himself,’” Bermudez told WSB.

Adal
Apr 21st, 2009, 03:55 PM
Very sad, very horrible. Something really needs to be done about this.

KanSuke
Apr 21st, 2009, 03:57 PM
:speakles:

This is just, sad :sad:

Philbo
Apr 21st, 2009, 03:59 PM
Another tragic story of the discrimination that homosexual people, and those perceived to POSSIBLY be homosexual face on a daily basis all around the world, even in so called 'civilised' nations.

I wish this boy had been able to maintain some hope that the future would one day be better.

CoolDude7
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:06 PM
Very sad, very horrible. Something really needs to be done about this.

There really needs to be some kind of fair treatment law or at least statement made to the public to let them know this is not acceptable.(I know there already is, but it needs to be stated again by someone big like Obama)

Effy
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:07 PM
so young :sad: very sad

^bibi^
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:11 PM
I'm afraid that as long as gay bashing will be generally tolerated, then we'll keep on hearing those kind of stories...

The kids hear their parents during stupid comments about gay people, and then repeat it in school and that's how it starts... Doesn't sound like something that can be solved easily nor quickly :sad:

~Eclipsed~
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:16 PM
We are a long way from acceptance if this kind of thing keeps happening. :sad:

I know there is only so much teacher/staff can do about teasing other than detention or some of other form of punishment, but they should be more proactive in caring for and detecting problems their students face.

Ciarán
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:32 PM
Awful :tears:

Marshmallow
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:39 PM
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/08/38/04/slideshow_1043882_suicide.0421_CC2.jpg

KanSuke
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:40 PM
:awww: :sobbing:

Marshmallow
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:43 PM
I can't get over how young these boys are, it's the first time I've heard stories like these involving boys this young.

*Sigh*

Mashabator
Apr 21st, 2009, 04:56 PM
That Poor Kid
But hes only ELEVEN!
;(

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 05:07 PM
Old。Poor。boy theres other situations,Get some。girl friends if your gay and there"ll protect you
R i p

Shuji Shuriken
Apr 21st, 2009, 06:09 PM
No words to describe how torn up I am reading this :sobbing:. It makes me so angry and hateful towards these bigots that force these kids to feel so hopeless :fiery:. May his soul find eternal peace :sobbing:. So young, so much potential...just gone.

Shuji Shuriken
Apr 21st, 2009, 06:10 PM
Old。Poor。boy theres other situations,Get some。girl friends if your gay and there"ll protect you
R i p
WTF? I know your english is probably as fucked up as the point you're trying to make, but maybe you should keep that bullshit out of this thread :rolleyes:.

~{X}~
Apr 21st, 2009, 07:56 PM
Not again. :sad:

This is horrible.

young_gunner913
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:07 PM
not again. :sad: this is must be just dreadful for the parents and family members knowning that nothing will be done. this is becoming such a huge problem and its time for teachers and school administrators to take a stand and show that this type of behaivor will not be tolerated and start suspending kids for gay bashing if not expulsion. 11 year olds committing suicide is just ridiculous. :tape:

timafi
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:11 PM
:sobbing:

Scotso
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:11 PM
She said she asked him about the bullying Thursday when he came home from school and he denied it. She sent him to his room to calm down. It was the last time she would see him alive.

WTF? I hope she realizes now that sending an emotionally tortured kid to his room is a dumbfuck idea.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:21 PM
WTF? I know your english is probably as fucked up as the point you're trying to make, but maybe you should keep that bullshit out of this thread :rolleyes:.

Sorry But theres always another path of suicide.

Shuji Shuriken
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:24 PM
Sorry But theres always another path of suicide.
Obviously, but like an 11 year old tortured soul would sit and map out his options :rolleyes:.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:24 PM
WTF? I hope she realizes now that sending an emotionally tortured kid to his room is a dumbfuck idea.
If you were his father, Scotso, what would you have done in that situation? I'm not trying to be funny this time.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:31 PM
Obviously, but like an 11 year old tortured soul would sit and map out his options :rolleyes:.

Yes.He can talk,walk,listen.
Everyone feel sorry him so do i.but everyones got to learn theres always options.

^bibi^
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:32 PM
Yes.He can talk,walk,listen.
Everyone feel sorry him so do i.but everyones got to learn theres always options.

what if you don't get the opportunity to learn ?

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:36 PM
Another thing: since when did self-defense stop being an option? It's been my personal experience that the best way to deal with a bully is to beat them at their own game (in other words, beat the daylights out of 'em). Yes, your child will probably get suspended for fighting, but if the school won't help him out, then he needs to take care of it himself. If somebody hits you, hit 'em back.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:37 PM
what if you don't get the opportunity to learn ?

he know how to suicide though,i mean if you were him,you wouldnt do the same thing would ya.

Bijoux0021
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:37 PM
Sorry But theres always another path of suicide.
How old are you?

Some children who are this young and are feeling so hopeless every day don't know there are other paths to ease their pains.

young_gunner913
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:38 PM
If you were his father, Scotso, what would you have done in that situation? I'm not trying to be funny this time.

before the suicide: go down the the school and keep bringing this to the administration's attention. if its not working, bring in a GLBT group to come talk to the school administrators about how big of a problem this is. keep bringing attention to show how horrible of a job the school is doing to combat this problem until they have had enough baggering and want to change.

after the suicide: go round up the children who were bullying my child and administrators who did nothing and lay the smackdown on every single ass inside of that room. and im not even joking. id whoop every ass from here to kingdom come.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:39 PM
Another thing: since when did self-defense stop being an option? It's been my personal experience that the best way to deal with a bully is to beat them at their own game (in other words, beat the daylights out of 'em). Yes, your child will probably get suspended for fighting, but if the school won't help him out, then he needs to take care of it himself. If somebody hits you, hit 'em back.

Well hes too scare to.I Wont hold back,i got support,but he doesnt.

KanSuke
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:42 PM
Not every kids know how to defense themselves, to speak up, to try to talk and solve the problems. If so, there won't be such things like this happening.

KanSuke
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:43 PM
And he's only 11 years old. How much do people expect him to know?

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:45 PM
How old are you?

Some children who are this young and are feeling so hopeless every day don't know other paths to easy their pains.

older than 11.
When i used to be 8,i was in england 1st time,i defended for myself, i dont know what they are saying,then i started making lot of friends,
then 1 day i was beaten by a bullie on the street,i cried home,my uncle owns a chip shop,its there where everyone came and beat up for me,my mum told he got spat,i didnt watch or something,i went upstair to my room,but knowing i got support my family & friend i feel safe,i experienced this things myself i know theres always another answer than suicide.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:46 PM
i am just saying theres another option than Suiciding for Fuck sake.Jesus
I am just saying he has an option thats all dont go bash me for saying something hes mum should have said.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:51 PM
Not every kids know how to defense themselves, to speak up, to try to talk and solve the problems. If so, there won't be such things like this happening.
That's where the parents come in. Believe it or not, my mothet taught me how to block and throw punches. She also told me never to START a fight, but always to FINISH one. I'm not saying that young Jaheem would definitely still be alive today if he had fought back, of course, but parents needs to teach their kids that they have a right to defend themselves if someone is bullying them.

Bijoux0021
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:51 PM
i am just saying theres another option than Suiciding for Fuck sake.Jesus
I am just saying he has an option thats all dont go bash me for saying something hes mum should have said.
I'm pretty sure his mom didn't know how badly he was hurting and was about to commit suicide.

^bibi^
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:55 PM
he know how to suicide though,i mean if you were him,you wouldnt do the same thing would ya.

let's just say I've been in the same situation unless I was a bit older and wiser... Still, suicide was definitely among the options, fortunately I didn't choose that path... but would I have faced the same situation being 11, I can't say what I would have done... But I don't think talking about it would really have been an option :shrug:

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 08:59 PM
I'm pretty sure his mom didn't know how badly he was hurting and was about to commit suicide.
Obviously she didn't have any idea how badly Jaheem was hurting. My question is, WHY didn't she know? Why didn't Jaheem feel like he couldn't talk to his mom about what was going on?

KanSuke
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:03 PM
That's where the parents come in. Believe it or not, my mothet taught me how to block and throw punches. She also told me never to START a fight, but always to FINISH one. I'm not saying that young Jaheem would definitely still be alive today if he had fought back, of course, but parents needs to teach their kids that they have a right to defend themselves if someone is bullying them.

Sadly not all parents know how to deal with it, and his parents probably didn't know that hurts him that bad and didn't know that he would've chosen suicide. That is just above normal reaction.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:06 PM
Obviously she didn't have any idea how badly Jaheem was hurting. My question is, WHY didn't she know? Why didn't Jaheem feel like he couldn't talk to his mom about what was going on?

1.Kids Dont want Parents to Worried them.
2.Kids dont want other kids to know hes bothered,so they wouldnt bother him as much if they didnt knew.
3.Kids dont want to be embarassed.

Thats what happen this days.

hablo
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:12 PM
1.Kids Dont want Parents to Worried them.
2.Kids dont want other kids to know hes bothered,so they wouldnt bother him as much if they didnt knew.
3.Kids dont want to be embarassed.

Thats what happen this days.

That's true. Sometimes you see your parents have a lot on their plate and you don't want to worry them; yes, even at 11 years old...

SVK
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:12 PM
This is soooooooo sad:sad::sad::sad:

I know, how he felt

Bijoux0021
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:14 PM
Obviously she didn't have any idea how badly Jaheem was hurting. My question is, WHY didn't she know? Why didn't Jaheem feel like he couldn't talk to his mom about what was going on?
Maybe he and his mom didn't have a close enough relationship to begin with.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:16 PM
That's true. Sometimes you see your parents have a lot on their plate and you don't want to worry them; yes, even at 11 years old...
I'm obviously in the minority here, because I never had that problem. My mother always, ALWAYS, had time for me, and she made sure I knew that.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:30 PM
another black kid?

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:32 PM
Does he have a dad with him or divorced :scratch:

young_gunner913
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:36 PM
another black kid?

why does it matter if hes black? hes a child. its horrendous enough that hes dead.

Kart
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:38 PM
This is a tragedy.

What I'd like to know is how an 11 year old knows that hanging yourself is a way to commit suicide.

I honestly don't think I would have known that at age 11.

Or maybe I'm just not remembering well enough.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:39 PM
Obviously she didn't have any idea how badly Jaheem was hurting. My question is, WHY didn't she know? Why didn't Jaheem feel like he couldn't talk to his mom about what was going on?

an 11 year old boy is old enough to understand gender roles. if he's being teased about being gay, there is obvious shame associated with this. so why would he go to his mom?

on top of that, who knows how they felt about gay people. who knows what she's said about gays in that house. you don't know. maybe she or someone in the family has accused him of having "feminine" affectations or have joked about it.

i have a nephew - 9 - who my mother regarded as "soft." and at one point his father acted like he was concerned that he would be gay. and this was when he was younger than nine.

if a grown person is afraid to come out to his/her family, why would it be easy for a child to bring this to his parent(s)? they might look at him and think he really is gay or that there's something to the teasing.

i do not believe the quixotic nature of his stepfather's comments. and the whole complaining to the school thing - well, sorry but black folk can be terribly homophobic. them complaints fell on deaf ears i'm sure.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:39 PM
why does it matter if hes black? hes a child. its horrendous enough that hes dead.

it matters a lot.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:41 PM
Does he have a dad with him or divorced :scratch:

and what is a father going to do? in many instances, the father would only do things to make sure the boy is perceived in a more macho way. male socialization, especially black male socialization, can be quite cruel.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:41 PM
another black kid?
Another kid, period.

By the way, this may sound like an incredibly naive question, but how does an 11-year-old know he or she is gay? When I was 11, all I knew about sex was how to spell it.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:44 PM
Another kid, period.

By the way, this may sound like an incredibly naive question, but how does an 11-year-old know he or she is gay? When I was 11, all I knew about sex was how to spell it.

see post #49.

children understand gender roles at a very young age. and while they may not be cemented in their sexuality, they understand that liking someone of the same sex is not the best thing.

also, kids are getting pregnant, having oral sex and screwing at 11. we are not living in the times of your youth, unfortunately.

and, sorry, while suicide is prevalent among gays teens in general, i think there are special considerations when talking about blacks and homosexuality and homophobia. black boys got it bad when it comes to socialization.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 09:51 PM
and what is a father going to do? in many instances, the father would only do things to make sure the boy is perceived in a more macho way. male socialization, especially black male socialization, can be quite cruel.
Perhaps if Jaheem were perceived in a more macho way, he wouldn't have been harassed. If people know they're going to have a fight on their hands if they mess with you, they're less likely to mess with you. Every bully I ever encountered was, deep down, a coward.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:00 PM
Perhaps if Jaheem were perceived in a more macho way, he wouldn't have been harassed. If people know they're going to have a fight on their hands if they mess with you, they're less likely to mess with you. Every bully I ever encountered was, deep down, a coward.

perhaps. but you're still communicating to the boy to put on these pretenses about his maleness rather than just be who he is. sorry again, but black boys have gotten into so much trouble trying to compensate by turning themselves into super-males just to be seen as hard.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:01 PM
see post #49.

children understand gender roles at a very young age. and while they may not be cemented in their sexuality, they understand that liking someone of the same sex is not the best thing.

also, kids are getting pregnant, having oral sex and screwing at 11. we are not living in the times of your youth, unfortunately.

and, sorry, while suicide is prevalent among gays teens in general, i think there are special considerations when talking about blacks and homosexuality and homophobia. black boys got it bad when it comes to socialization.
That's because parents today are more interested in being friends with their kids instead of being parents. When I was eight, my mother told me that if I ever went to jail, she wouldn't come visit me; that was my "Scared Straight" moment. My bedroom door did not have a lock on it, and Mom would open it whenever she saw it closed. When I was older, I thanked her for that, as well as all the spankings she gave me.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:08 PM
That's because parents today are more interested in being friends with their kids instead of being parents. When I was eight, my mother told me that if I ever went to jail, she wouldn't come visit me; that was my "Scared Straight" moment. My bedroom door did not have a lock on it, and Mom would open it whenever she saw it closed. When I was older, I thanked her for that, as well as all the spankings she gave me.

i think we had the same mother. :D

young_gunner913
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:15 PM
it matters a lot.

does it matter more because hes black? if so, you need help. a child of any race committing suicide is horrible and this is obviously becoming a bigger in bigger problem. not just for the black community, but for kids everywhere.

darrinbaker00
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:15 PM
perhaps. but you're still communicating to the boy to put on these pretenses about his maleness rather than just be who he is. sorry again, but black boys have gotten into so much trouble trying to compensate by turning themselves into super-males just to be seen as hard.
That's not what I meant. My simple point is this: if someone is messing with you at school, and the school is allowing this kind of behavior, then you should let your harasser know that there will be consequences to pay if he or she persists. I don't see how being gay has anything to do with that.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:21 PM
does it matter more because hes black? if so, you need help. a child of any race committing suicide is horrible and this is obviously becoming a bigger in bigger problem. not just for the black community, but for kids everywhere.

i think you don't know what you're talking about. believe me, you've got no clue. for a primer, because i will not be the one to educate your ignorant behind, go explore the website (the link) that is offered in the original post.

here's your chance to learn something new today.

Bijoux0021
Apr 21st, 2009, 10:41 PM
That's not what I meant. My simple point is this: if someone is messing with you at school, and the school is allowing this kind of behavior, then you should let your harasser know that there will be consequences to pay if he or she persists. I don't see how being gay has anything to do with that.
Usually it's more than one harasser. Some bullies feel more empowered when they have followers. It's like a gang mentality. It would be nice if other kids would get together and stand up to them. But unfortunately, kids this young are not wise enough to make the best decisions. They are more scared and confused than anything else.

woosey
Apr 21st, 2009, 11:32 PM
That's not what I meant. My simple point is this: if someone is messing with you at school, and the school is allowing this kind of behavior, then you should let your harasser know that there will be consequences to pay if he or she persists. I don't see how being gay has anything to do with that.

when i was in junior h.s., i had a bully. this girl constantly teased me until one day i threw down my books and walked up on her like i was gonna fight her. never had a problem with her after that.

but, i'm not so sure that is necessarily the right way to handle things for boys, especially black boys. it could exacerbate things.

Noctis
Apr 21st, 2009, 11:36 PM
I just said Fuck Off outloud if its a nasty girl

Apoleb
Apr 21st, 2009, 11:50 PM
Telling them to physically react is not the best way to handle things. As far as I can see, this is verbal/emotional abuse here. Parents in this case should teach their kids to ignore their bullies and throw in some self-belief in there. If it's a physical abuse issue (which I don't think is the case here), then police should be informed, if the school is doing nothing about it.

Marshmallow
Apr 22nd, 2009, 12:32 AM
That's not what I meant. My simple point is this: if someone is messing with you at school, and the school is allowing this kind of behavior, then you should let your harasser know that there will be consequences to pay if he or she persists. I don't see how being gay has anything to do with that.

It's not always so simple, and I'm not sure exactly on what you have based your assumption that there was "a bully" or that physical contact was involved (in previous posts).

From my experiences and what I have seen happen to others, anti-gay bullying doesn't need any physical contact. At around this age, children are still understanding gender norms and follow gender rules almost strictly. Assuming this boy was effeminate (as the other boy who killed himself last week was described as such), he may have been ostracised by many of his peers for being different, and may have become an accepted target of humour. [That's putting it lightly. I wasn't even all that feminine and this one time I was surrounded by a group of 4 girls who decided to test my manilness by asking me what I would do if one of them hit me. I really didn't know the right answer but I didn't have to because the smirks of their faces told me the less I said the better. I didn't even know these girls, but when they left I overheard them talk to this girl in my class who I barely knew who was laughing with them about how I was probably gonna cry about it.] Teacher interventions usually mean nothing and so there is sometimes a consequential feeling of alienation and rejection - with an accompanied lack of understanding of exactly why you are being targetted and how to change it. Striking back at all the people who dish this stuff out especially physically just doesn't seem feasible (especially if there's many and you don't even know some of them). Maybe verbally but with inadequate support that might not even register as an option.
Add to that perhaps a hint of anti-gay sentiments in the home. This can be either through unwitting homophobic remarks and attitudes, or parents pushing their child to me more manly or not to do things that are less than manly (without adequate explanation or in a way that makes the child feel victimised/awkward). This sort of akward situation can make turning to parents about this sort of thing almost impossible.

It can sometimes be a complex web of factors that leave a child with psychological baggage that takes years to undo. Its difficult to see a way out of that sort of situation and so I think I can understand why these two boys felt suicide was the only escape.

In my view everyone can do more. Parents can encourage their kids to be more tolerant of difference at an early age, parents can try to preapre their children to handle bullies while also instilling into them a sense of self acceptance and spelling it out that they can come to them to talk about anything. Teachers and school could do more, part of the problem is their and social ignorance of gay bullying that is perpetuated by media, stereotyping and a lack of visible postive gay role models. It's a big thing.

I do like what the first comment on the loldarin page said, about gay 'elders' starting to take some responsibility for the gay youngsters. ... I'm having a brainfreeze everytime I try to write this post :confused:

Joana
Apr 22nd, 2009, 01:28 AM
I'm obviously in the minority here, because I never had that problem. My mother always, ALWAYS, had time for me, and she made sure I knew that.

That's not the point. I am absolutely sure my mother always has had time for me and that she will be there for me no matter what, yet, I've several times chosen not to share my problems with her because I know she has a lot of problems of her own and I don't want to burden her even more.

Besides, I'm really not sure how much of a solution it is to tell a child to "stand up for himself". It's an easy thing to say, but many children are simply not capable of doing it, for one reason or another. And it's not like the bullies pick their victims randomly, in most cases they target those who they instinctively know are not likely to fight back. And such instinct is rarely wrong. Furthermore, they sometimes want them to try to fight back if they know their victim is weak or clumsy. I remember a boy being bullied at my school, although it wasn't such an extreme case as the one in this thread. Once he tried to fight them and it was more than obvious that those little hyenas were just waiting for it to happen, and it would have got really ugly had a teacher not showed up.

Bullying is an awful problem and I honestly don't know how it can be solved.

mirzalover
Apr 22nd, 2009, 01:54 AM
Damn, just today in my Adolescent psychology class. A girl did her project on gay, lesbian, and bisexual adolescents suicide rates being higher than heterosexual adolescents and how the age of the suicides are getting younger and younger.

Tennisation
Apr 22nd, 2009, 01:55 AM
another black kid?:rolleyes:.....and FYI, he's not black!

moby
Apr 22nd, 2009, 02:58 AM
Besides, I'm really not sure how much of a solution it is to tell a child to "stand up for himself". It's an easy thing to say, but many children are simply not capable of doing it, for one reason or another. And it's not like the bullies pick their victims randomly, in most cases they target those who they instinctively know are not likely to fight back. And such instinct is rarely wrong. Furthermore, they sometimes want them to try to fight back if they know their victim is weak or clumsy.
but you're still communicating to the boy to put on these pretenses about his maleness rather than just be who he is.
Assuming this boy was effeminate (as the other boy who killed himself last week was described as such), he may have been ostracised by many of his peers for being different, and may have become an accepted target of humour... ... Teacher interventions usually mean nothing and so there is sometimes a consequential feeling of alienation and rejection - with an accompanied lack of understanding of exactly why you are being targetted and how to change it. ... ... Add to that perhaps a hint of anti-gay sentiments in the home. This can be either through unwitting homophobic remarks and attitudes, or parents pushing their child to me more manly or not to do things that are less than manly (without adequate explanation or in a way that makes the child feel victimised/awkward). This sort of akward situation can make turning to parents about this sort of thing almost impossible. Not much to add here.

It's a Catch-22 situation. If you (as the parent; guardian) tell the boy to "man up", that only feeds into his inferiority complex with regard to his effeminacy. If you let him be as he is, the bullying will continue (in which case, you will have to affirm that effeminacy, and it'll still be a crapshoot: peer pressure can overwhelm familial approval).

I also think all this press could be potentially harmful in the short term. I don't know if last week/month's suicide was related to this week's, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. 11 year olds are no longer perceiving suicide as a purely theoretical option. In the long run, it may perhaps be a catalyst for an upheaval of sorts, although I'm skeptical.

woosey
Apr 22nd, 2009, 04:37 AM
normally, most news organizations do not report suicides as a policy because they do not want to encourage copycats. i can see how these are exceptional cases but still. they might rethink what they are doing now.

esquímaux
Apr 22nd, 2009, 04:51 AM
Another thing: since when did self-defense stop being an option? It's been my personal experience that the best way to deal with a bully is to beat them at their own game (in other words, beat the daylights out of 'em). Yes, your child will probably get suspended for fighting, but if the school won't help him out, then he needs to take care of it himself. If somebody hits you, hit 'em back.
:spit: Totally agree :D

Scotso
Apr 22nd, 2009, 06:25 AM
it matters a lot.

Only to you, it seems.


i think you don't know what you're talking about. believe me, you've got no clue. for a primer, because i will not be the one to educate your ignorant behind, go explore the website (the link) that is offered in the original post.

here's your chance to learn something new today.

He's got no fucking clue because he cares equally about kids of all races? Maybe you should try to explain what you mean, because you're coming across pretty terribly.

This kind of comment isn't exactly out of character for you.

young_gunner913
Apr 22nd, 2009, 06:47 AM
i think you don't know what you're talking about. believe me, you've got no clue. for a primer, because i will not be the one to educate your ignorant behind, go explore the website (the link) that is offered in the original post.

here's your chance to learn something new today.

well then why dont you educate me? im asking you why it matters if this boy was black, white, red whatever. a kid is a kid and hes dead now due to excessive bullying. does it matter to you more more because hes black? thats what it seems like.

darrinbaker00
Apr 22nd, 2009, 07:07 AM
Only to you, it seems.




He's got no fucking clue because he cares equally about kids of all races? Maybe you should try to explain what you mean, because you're coming across pretty terribly.

This kind of comment isn't exactly out of character for you.
Neither is your condescending reply.

bad_angel_109
Apr 22nd, 2009, 09:07 AM
:speakles: wtf is wrong with the anti-gays these days? the whole gay community and the straight community and everyone who is against homophobic ppl should all hunt down all homophobics and bash them, bunch of retards :mad:

pierce85
Apr 22nd, 2009, 09:35 AM
issue1:if anything like this was to happen to my kid i'd do anything in my powers to stop it.go to the teachers,others kids parents,hell i would even terrorize the little bastards to stop it.seems that the poor child's parents didn't try hard enough...
issue2:i can't believe teachers allowed this to happen.teachers should watch over kids even during breaks.
issue3:it's frustrating that such irresponsible people are allowed to have children

Marshmallow
Apr 22nd, 2009, 10:25 AM
Another thing: since when did self-defense stop being an option? It's been my personal experience that the best way to deal with a bully is to beat them at their own game (in other words, beat the daylights out of 'em). Yes, your child will probably get suspended for fighting, but if the school won't help him out, then he needs to take care of it himself. If somebody hits you, hit 'em back.

:spit: Totally agree :D

Brain freeze gone and with a little time for reflection, I have to say this isn't the worst advice in the world. From personal experience, around the time I moved onto secondaryschool (11-16 period) what happened before largerly evapourated and it was helped by my "fighting" tendencies. All those years of being pushed around by my brother paid off ^.^, because I got into a string of 4 fights within a few months, and 2 of them were against big boys, two of the most feared boys at the time [but the trigger wasn't anti-gay bullying, just idocy]. I surprised even myself because I won all the fights. It was an all boys school so I guess it earn me school-boy respect in someway, because after word spread, people were fearful of saying anything anti-gay to me. When they did you could see them take a big gulp.

So the fighting advise isn't all the bad, but it still isn't generalisable. Some of the boys I've seen get picked on in this way are small/slight in built. I think if they tried to fight back, their "bullies" would relish the opportunity to take their tormenting further. I've noticed that medium build - large gay suspects get less trouble than the relatively smaller ones (to a point). But the ability to fight back is definitely a useful skill. But again as I said before, teaching it must done in a way that does make the child feel victimised or too awkward because the response won't be as desired (given they may already have emotional baggage from their experiences in school).

All that said, having school-boy respect doesn't spare you from the psychological chaos and messing up that can come with growing up gay in some cases. Adolescent suicide amongst LGT people is still quite high and not all cases involve phsyical abuse.

woosey
Apr 22nd, 2009, 02:58 PM
:rolleyes:.....and FYI, he's not black!


wtf...fyi, he is.:rolleyes:

Only to you, it seems.




He's got no fucking clue because he cares equally about kids of all races? Maybe you should try to explain what you mean, because you're coming across pretty terribly.

This kind of comment isn't exactly out of character for you.

maybe i'm the only one with a grasp of the totality of the issues here. context is everything. and if you don't get the problems with gays, black male sexuality, etc. in the black community (particularly the stuff going on in atlanta and vicinity), you'll never understand anything i'm saying. but scotso, you have a limited understanding of sooooo many things.

i don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else here if you don't understand anything i've said or if you have not taken the opportunity to explore that website that is linked to this post - also, the websites that are listed in the actual blog.

it is not my job to sit here educating the ignorant (mostly) white boys on this forum. you've got google. go search on your own.

well then why dont you educate me? im asking you why it matters if this boy was black, white, red whatever. a kid is a kid and hes dead now due to excessive bullying. does it matter to you more more because hes black? thats what it seems like.

like i said, my vocation in life is not to sit around and make you understand things you either have no interest in comprehending or just can't possibly get through you head. put the burden of having information on yourself, not on me. if i say something, go frickin look it up, if understanding a certain population is truly an interest. i do this all the time.

woosey
Apr 22nd, 2009, 03:03 PM
Brain freeze gone and with a little time for reflection, I have to say this isn't the worst advice in the world. From personal experience, around the time I moved onto secondaryschool (11-16 period) what happened before largerly evapourated and it was helped by my "fighting" tendencies. All those years of being pushed around by my brother paid off ^.^, because I got into a string of 4 fights within a few months, and 2 of them were against big boys, two of the most feared boys at the time [but the trigger wasn't anti-gay bullying, just idocy]. I surprised even myself because I won all the fights. It was an all boys school so I guess it earn me school-boy respect in someway, because after word spread, people were fearful of saying anything anti-gay to me. When they did you could see them take a big gulp.

So the fighting advise isn't all the bad, but it still isn't generalisable. Some of the boys I've seen get picked on in this way are small/slight in built. I think if they tried to fight back, their "bullies" would relish the opportunity to take their tormenting further. I've noticed that medium build - large gay suspects get less trouble than the relatively smaller ones (to a point). But the ability to fight back is definitely a useful skill. But again as I said before, teaching it must done in a way that does make the child feel victimised or too awkward because the response won't be as desired (given they may already have emotional baggage from their experiences in school).

All that said, having school-boy respect doesn't spare you from the psychological chaos and messing up that can come with growing up gay in some cases. Adolescent suicide amongst LGT people is still quite high and not all cases involve physical abuse.

i don't know how old you are but a fight is not always just a fight anymore. people bring guns to school. if this boy had been in a different mindset or had access, he might have brought a gun to school and shot a bunch of people. children who've been bullied have done this. hell, people who haven't been bullied have done this.

i believe in children standing up for themselves but i'm also realistic about how things go down nowadays. these are not necessarily the days when kids fight and the next day they are playing together. kids fight and the next day somebody is bringing a weapon to school to do damage.

Philbo
Apr 22nd, 2009, 03:37 PM
wtf...fyi, he is.:rolleyes:



maybe i'm the only one with a grasp of the totality of the issues here. context is everything. and if you don't get the problems with gays, black male sexuality, etc. in the black community (particularly the stuff going on in atlanta and vicinity), you'll never understand anything i'm saying. but scotso, you have a limited understanding of sooooo many things.

i don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else here if you don't understand anything i've said or if you have not taken the opportunity to explore that website that is linked to this post - also, the websites that are listed in the actual blog.

it is not my job to sit here educating the ignorant (mostly) white boys on this forum. you've got google. go search on your own.



like i said, my vocation in life is not to sit around and make you understand things you either have no interest in comprehending or just can't possibly get through you head. put the burden of having information on yourself, not on me. if i say something, go frickin look it up, if understanding a certain population is truly an interest. i do this all the time.

sorry woosey, ive gone through the pages in this thread (in a rush) and I cannot find any website linked to your post..or any blog with links.. I'd like to read up about the black gay male issues you refer to in and around ATlanta.. but I just cant find the links you're talking about.

Sidepoint - If we want to start discussing/comparing what group/culture/race faces the most hostile coming out its easily any gay muslim kid.

Marshmallow
Apr 22nd, 2009, 04:22 PM
sorry woosey, ive gone through the pages in this thread (in a rush) and I cannot find any website linked to your post..or any blog with links.. I'd like to read up about the black gay male issues you refer to in and around ATlanta.. but I just cant find the links you're talking about.

Sidepoint - If we want to start discussing/comparing what group/culture/race faces the most hostile coming out its easily any gay muslim kid.

I think woosey meant this link that is in the first post:
http://loldarian.blogspot.com/2009/04/anti-gay-bullying-leads-another-11-year.html

:sobbing: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eh0jgrX2BFw/Se3HL2CFy9I/AAAAAAAAFoE/fcRp1ETq14s/s400/19237214_320X180.jpg

Not that I want to get into the sidenote but is it muslims easily? Easily over the Jamaica and parts of Africa with their murderous mobs to name a few? I don't think it's an easy issue to conclude.

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2009, 04:33 PM
That's not what I meant. My simple point is this: if someone is messing with you at school, and the school is allowing this kind of behavior, then you should let your harasser know that there will be consequences to pay if he or she persists. I don't see how being gay has anything to do with that.
I'm with you on this. When I heard about the other case happening the first thing I thought of was that it was a wider issue that needs to be dealt with.

Sam L
Apr 22nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
when i was in junior h.s., i had a bully. this girl constantly teased me until one day i threw down my books and walked up on her like i was gonna fight her. never had a problem with her after that.

but, i'm not so sure that is necessarily the right way to handle things for boys, especially black boys. it could exacerbate things.

LOL I did that too. But the difference with me was that I went to a private school in Sydney some years ago. From what I'm reading and hearing these days some kids are crazy. Yeah no way I would try and exacerbate things these days. And woosey, I don't even know why you're bothering with some posters in here. Seriously unless if you carbon copy their posts and repeat as they say they won't be pleased. You know who they are.

Marshmallow
Apr 22nd, 2009, 04:52 PM
i don't know how old you are but a fight is not always just a fight anymore. people bring guns to school. if this boy had been in a different mindset or had access, he might have brought a gun to school and shot a bunch of people. children who've been bullied have done this. hell, people who haven't been bullied have done this.

i believe in children standing up for themselves but i'm also realistic about how things go down nowadays. these are not necessarily the days when kids fight and the next day they are playing together. kids fight and the next day somebody is bringing a weapon to school to do damage.

That def. does open up a can of worms that complicates things. I remember now hearing about that 12 y/o boy who was shot in the head after asking another boy to be his valentine (different but jist of potential consequence is there).

But the essence of that style of advice is reducing vulnerability to being the target of serious bullying, and as I said fighting back isn't generalisable. Stratergies might be unconventional and will vary from environment to environment but I'd like to think we the right support there are ways to minimise vulnerability to serious bullying as well as how to deal with it. A place to start might be the experiences and interventions of gay identified individuals who have been through similar school environments. If we figure out how they coped then maybe we can start to apply things broadly.

We gotta do something. BTW I'm 23. ^.^

Philbo
Apr 22nd, 2009, 05:28 PM
I think woosey meant this link that is in the first post:
http://loldarian.blogspot.com/2009/04/anti-gay-bullying-leads-another-11-year.html

:sobbing: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eh0jgrX2BFw/Se3HL2CFy9I/AAAAAAAAFoE/fcRp1ETq14s/s400/19237214_320X180.jpg

Not that I want to get into the sidenote but is it muslims easily? Easily over the Jamaica and parts of Africa with their murderous mobs to name a few? I don't think it's an easy issue to conclude.

Cheers for the link.. I was searching through woosey's posts which is why i didnt see it..

I would say the Jamaicans/Nigerians also have it incredibly tough when coming out. But I guess in my own experience Ive met a FEW gay guys from that kind of background who have managed a decent family life..with a lot of heartache and tears etc...

For 6 years I facillitated a 'coming out' group for guys under the age of 26 in sydney. So I met hundreds of young gay guys and heard all their coming out stories and maybe its just what Ive been exposed to but its the muslims from devout families that in my experience genuinely lived in fear of being killed by their father or being deported back to pakistan or wherever they were from if their family ever found out.

Its not easy for anyone and its only in hindsight I can see that I had it a lot easier than many guys do.

woosey
Apr 22nd, 2009, 06:08 PM
Cheers for the link.. I was searching through woosey's posts which is why i didnt see it..

I would say the Jamaicans/Nigerians also have it incredibly tough when coming out. But I guess in my own experience Ive met a FEW gay guys from that kind of background who have managed a decent family life..with a lot of heartache and tears etc...

For 6 years I facillitated a 'coming out' group for guys under the age of 26 in sydney. So I met hundreds of young gay guys and heard all their coming out stories and maybe its just what Ive been exposed to but its the muslims from devout families that in my experience genuinely lived in fear of being killed by their father or being deported back to pakistan or wherever they were from if their family ever found out.

Its not easy for anyone and its only in hindsight I can see that I had it a lot easier than many guys do.

ok czechfan thanks for not jumping to conclusions. much respect. ;)

woosey
Apr 22nd, 2009, 06:10 PM
LOL I did that too. But the difference with me was that I went to a private school in Sydney some years ago. From what I'm reading and hearing these days some kids are crazy. Yeah no way I would try and exacerbate things these days. And woosey, I don't even know why you're bothering with some posters in here. Seriously unless if you carbon copy their posts and repeat as they say they won't be pleased. You know who they are.


i forgot and lost my mind there for a second. it's found now though.

woosey
Apr 22nd, 2009, 06:14 PM
That def. does open up a can of worms that complicates things. I remember now hearing about that 12 y/o boy who was shot in the head after asking another boy to be his valentine (different but jist of potential consequence is there).

But the essence of that style of advice is reducing vulnerability to being the target of serious bullying, and as I said fighting back isn't generalisable. Stratergies might be unconventional and will vary from environment to environment but I'd like to think we the right support there are ways to minimise vulnerability to serious bullying as well as how to deal with it. A place to start might be the experiences and interventions of gay identified individuals who have been through similar school environments. If we figure out how they coped then maybe we can start to apply things broadly.

We gotta do something. BTW I'm 23. ^.^

i would be kinda scared for my son, if i had a child. there are gay folks in my family - closeted and open - and when i think about them and everybody else, i would be so scared for him to exhibit any qualities that weren't in line with what people expected. the bad part is when the kids are not even gay.

when my mother was kinda making comments about my little nephew, it just broke my heart. but he got into playing football so i guess that made him man-up in his father's eyes.

Joana
Apr 22nd, 2009, 06:25 PM
I'm with you on this. When I heard about the other case happening the first thing I thought of was that it was a wider issue that needs to be dealt with.

It's because those who are gay or are simply perceived to be so have additional risk of being bullied. It's always been like that and only those have heads deep in their asses can't see that.

RJWCapriati
Apr 23rd, 2009, 12:10 AM
Sad story, I hope those kids that made him feel bad enough to kill himself are feeling terrible about themselves.

In The Zone
Apr 23rd, 2009, 01:35 AM
I'm with you on this. When I heard about the other case happening the first thing I thought of was that it was a wider issue that needs to be dealt with.

LOL I did that too. But the difference with me was that I went to a private school in Sydney some years ago. From what I'm reading and hearing these days some kids are crazy. Yeah no way I would try and exacerbate things these days. And woosey, I don't even know why you're bothering with some posters in here. Seriously unless if you carbon copy their posts and repeat as they say they won't be pleased. You know who they are.

So then, you're not with him on this. What do you actually think or believe on this issue?

madlove
Apr 23rd, 2009, 01:38 AM
PARENTS, PLEASE EDUCATE YOUR KIDS FROM YOUNG. this cant continue. rip boy.

comfortably.numb
Apr 23rd, 2009, 02:54 AM
Poor kid.

Dav.
Apr 23rd, 2009, 03:01 AM
That's so sad. :sad:

My brother's 11 so I truly feel for the family and can't imagine the pain they must be going through.

RIP

Infiniti2001
Apr 24th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Jaheem is originally from St Croix USVI and his accent was another reason for him being bullied :sad:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/04/23/ac.bullying.suicide.cnn

Milito22
Apr 24th, 2009, 03:05 PM
oh Jesus! :sad:

brickhousesupporter
Apr 24th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Darren I have to agree with everything you said. The first thing my parents (Dad) told on my first day of school was if anyone hits you hit them back. When I was going to middle school he told me if any of the upperclassmen want to harass you because you are a freshman, don't let them get away with it because it will set the trend for your other years. He said that if any tries to pick a fight he said that I need to get into one good fight. Whoop some ass and even if I can't win, I need to not make it easy on them. If they know that they will have a fight on their hands they are less likely to come at you again. It will also let everyone know that you will not back down. I will be passing these messages on to my sons one day. Another important lesson, if a group of people jump you, don't fight all of them. Find one person and you make sure he get all of it.
My parent were very involved in my upbringing.

brickhousesupporter
Apr 24th, 2009, 03:40 PM
Jaheem is originally from St Croix USVI and his accent was another reason for him being bullied :sad:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/04/23/ac.bullying.suicide.cnn

I know I could tell when I heard the mother spoke. I was even more disappointed that a fellow Crucian (people from St. Croix) would back down. I know generalizations are not right but people from St. Croix are very aggressive and I can't believe that he would back down.

ArturoAce.
Apr 26th, 2009, 10:25 AM
This is ridiculous :(

Poor Kid. :sad:

stevos
Apr 26th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Oh man.
To people who say things like "He should learn to fight" or "He should man up"...that is such a complicated issue.
I'm sure this little boy is so confused that he's just acting the way he feels is natural, and is being harassed for this, so he will then attempt to be more masculine, which leads to so many insecurities. I know I definitely did. I was a relatively popular kid, but I got picked on, and why? Because I showed some effeminate tendencies. And it causes kids to form this new person within themselves, to protect themselves from it. I only broke down those walls in myself in the past year, and it just seems interesting that it seems to be the straight posters (as well as Marshmallow agreeing) that mention fighting. I don't know, I just know it wouldn't have worked for me.

And it was so horribly embarrassing to tell my parents about any of it. You worry that your parents are going to think their teasing is indicating your femininity. I think the best thing for a parent to do is to unconditionally love their kid, and let them know that who they are is okay. If a kid has self-assurance, kids won't have insecurities to poke and prod at.

Scotso
Apr 26th, 2009, 08:58 PM
To people who say things like "He should learn to fight" or "He should man up"...that is such a complicated issue.

Not to mention that it's basically blaming the victim. The idea that they wouldn't get picked on for being gay (or being thought to be gay or whatever) if they fight back is insulting. Would you tell a woman that got raped that it wouldn't have happened if she had learned to defend herself? The victim has nothing to justify, they've done nothing wrong. The only behavior we should be trying to alter is the terrible behavior of the perpetrator. I can't believe people still are willing to teach children that violence is a solution to problems.

If you feel the need to defend yourself... by all means, do it. But you shouldn't have to. And no amount of nose breaking is going to make you feel loved. These people don't kill themselves because they're unable or unwilling to fight back, they kill themselves because they think no one cares.


And it was so horribly embarrassing to tell my parents about any of it. You worry that your parents are going to think their teasing is indicating your femininity. I think the best thing for a parent to do is to unconditionally love their kid, and let them know that who they are is okay. If a kid has self-assurance, kids won't have insecurities to poke and prod at.

I think the parents of these kids share some of the blame. I don't know, every situation is different, but I got picked on for being gay but was never hugely bothered by it because my family (especially) and friends were so supportive. I have a feeling the families of these kids weren't so. Gay or not, being a parent means you need to make sure your kids know that, as you said, they're unconditionally loved and will always have your support. Sending a kid to his room to "cool off" when you can see he's in pain is ridiculous.

moby
Apr 26th, 2009, 09:16 PM
I dealt with the prospect of being picked on by developing extremely aloof and avoidant tendencies. (It helped that bullying is less of a problem where I come from, and in my school) Many people just thought I was mildy eccentric and insulated, which played into the asexual nerd stereotype (which I could deal with; no problem). It worked, but unfortunately it came at an expense socially and I've been paying for it ever since.

VeeJJ
Apr 27th, 2009, 03:05 AM
It's sad.... but there's nothing to do.. nothing anyone can do.... As mch as I or anyone hate's it.... It's a helpless problem... These kinds of people will never go away...... Something is most sad when it it helpless....

VeeJJ
Apr 27th, 2009, 03:17 AM
I think the parents of these kids share some of the blame. I don't know, every situation is different, but I got picked on for being gay but was never hugely bothered by it because my family (especially) and friends were so supportive. I have a feeling the families of these kids weren't so. Gay or not, being a parent means you need to make sure your kids know that, as you said, they're unconditionally loved and will always have your support. Sending a kid to his room to "cool off" when you can see he's in pain is ridiculous.

I know exactly what ya mean... I'm forunate to have supportive parents and friends.... reassurance is a key to getting through all the bullying shit..... Age and development has a role in it as well... as well as enviornment... When I was going through of all this i found it better to be completely non responsive.... Everything ever said to me was blocked out.... Just ignoring it made it so much easier.... It may not be easy for some but it's what worked.... As i got older and understood more the maturity and boldness of people... I understood that most of the people that bully just stand behind there words.... After i figured that out if people would insult me basedon the fact i was gay.... I would walk up in there face and ask them to repeat it.... BUlly's only think of sterotypical gay in which they don't defend themselves or act mcuh like a girl..... By me standing up for me bldly and in front of other people it have every effect on them..... They shut up.... But as for at this age.... Idk what there is to do..... Especially if u don't have supporting parents.... When i came out my mom told me.... "u know the dangers of this chocie right... u know their or a lot of people that won't like u...." she made sure i knew what to expect and how to deal with it.... that is the only solution i can think of for soemthing at such an age.... Inform the child... if there is a hint that ur child might be gay and ur not a freaking idiot u should look over him even more so... especially at such a young age... So yeah I would give the parents a lot of the blame.....

brickhousesupporter
Apr 27th, 2009, 04:51 AM
I for one an not blaming the victims. People have their mouths to speak so they can say what they want. However, when that transfers to putting your hands on me, we have a problem. People will only take advantage of you if you let them. Feminine or not he can still defend himself.

darrinbaker00
Apr 27th, 2009, 06:16 AM
Not to mention that it's basically blaming the victim. The idea that they wouldn't get picked on for being gay (or being thought to be gay or whatever) if they fight back is insulting. Would you tell a woman that got raped that it wouldn't have happened if she had learned to defend herself? The victim has nothing to justify, they've done nothing wrong. The only behavior we should be trying to alter is the terrible behavior of the perpetrator. I can't believe people still are willing to teach children that violence is a solution to problems.
Sometimes, violence is not only a solution, it's the best solution. I believe it should be the last resort, but sometimes the last resort is necessary.
If you feel the need to defend yourself... by all means, do it. But you shouldn't have to.
Maybe not in Scotsoland, but the real world does not work like that.
I think the parents of these kids share some of the blame. I don't know, every situation is different, but I got picked on for being gay but was never hugely bothered by it because my family (especially) and friends were so supportive. I have a feeling the families of these kids weren't so. Gay or not, being a parent means you need to make sure your kids know that, as you said, they're unconditionally loved and will always have your support. Sending a kid to his room to "cool off" when you can see he's in pain is ridiculous.
Again I must ask you: what should the young man's mother have done in that situation? She asked her son what was wrong, and he didn't tell her. What do you think her next move should have been, Scotso?