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View Full Version : [Jekyll/Hyde] Safina on HARD/CLAY.


Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 10:56 AM
v. Serena hardcourts

Williams d. Safina 6:0 6:1 [2002 Flushing Meadows]
Williams d. Safina 6:4 3:6 6:3 [2004 Beijing]
Williams d. Safina 6:3 6:2 [2008 Flushing Meadows]
Williams d. Safina 6:4 6:1 [2008 Doha YEC]
Williams d. Safina 6:0 6:3 [2009 Australian Open]

Serena has only lost ONE set to Safina in five hardcourt meetings.
Never lost to Safina at all on hardcourts.
2 bagels, 2 breadsticks.
Safina has only won more than FIVE games once in her three set loss. Beijing '04

v. Serena clay

Williams d. Safina 6:3 6:2 [2007 Roland Garros]
Safina d. Williams 2:6 6:1 7:6(5) [2008 Berlin]

Safina's lone victory over Serena was on clay. What a surprise? Not.
Victory snapped Serena's 17? match winning streak.

v. Dementieva hardcourt

Dementieva d. Safina 2:6 6:1 6:2 [2004 Flushing Meadows]
Dementieva d. Safina 3:6 7:5 6:3 [2008 Beijing Olympics]
Dementieva d. Safina 6:2 6:4 [2008 Doha YEC]
Dementieva d. Safina 6:3 2:6 6:1 [2009 Sydney]

Dementieva has never lost to Safina on hardcourt.
Dementieva has never faced a MP against Safina on hardcourt.

v. Dementieva clay

Safina d. Dementieva 2:6 6:2 1:0 ret. [2003 Berlin]
Safina d. Dementieva 6:1 6:1 [2006 Rome]
Safina d. Dementieva 3:6 6:2 6:2 [2008 Berlin]
Safina d. Dementieva 4:6 7:6(5) 6:0 [2008 Roland Garros]

What a surprise? Not. Safina has never LOST to Dementieva on clay.
Safina owns the most comprehensive victory, in terms of games won/lost, on CLAY. '06 Rome.
Safina dished the only bagel out in the H2H.... on CLAY.

v. Jankovic hardcourt

Safina d. Jankovic 7:6(3) 6:1 [2008 L.A.]
Safina d. Jankovic 6:2 5:7 6:3 [2008 Beijing Olympics]

Safina has never lost to Jankovic on hardcourts.

v. Jankovic clay

Jankovic d. Safina 6:2 6:2 [2007 Charleston]

Jankovic has never lost to Safina on clay.

v. Venus hardcourt

Williams d. Safina 7:5 6:3 [2008 Doha YEC]

Safina has never beaten Venus on a hardcourt.

v Venus clay

NEVER MET probably a Safina win after fighting off MPs knowing this girl.

v. Zvonareva hardcourt

Zvonareva d. Safina 7:5 6:3 [2008 Doha]
Zvonareva d. Safina 7:5 6:4 [2008 Miami]
Safina d. Zvonareva 6:3 7:6(4) [2009 Australian Open]

Zvonareva leads hardcourt H2H 3-1
Zvonareva's two wins were part of a three match win streak over Safina. Did not include Moscow '08
Zvonareva's two wins were both in straight sets and in Tier I events.

v. Zvonareva clay

Safina d. Zvonareva 6:3 6:2 [2002 Sopot]
Zvonareva d. Safina 1:6 6:4 6:2 [2004 Rome]
Safina d. Zvonareva 7:5 7:5 [2006 Charleston]
Safina d. Zvonareva 6:3 7-5 [2006 Roland Garros]
Safina d. Zvonareva 6:3 0:1 ret. [2007 Charleston]

Safina leads clay H2H 4-1. What a surprise.
4/4 wins have been straight set for Safina.
Zvonareva's lone win on clay still included a breadstick from Safina.

v. Ivanovic hardcourt

Ivanovic d. Safina 6:1 6:4 [2006 Montreal]

Safina has never beat Ivanovic on hardcourt.

v. Ivanovic clay.

Safina d. Ivanovic 6:1 6:4 [2005 Berlin]
Ivanovic d. Safina [6:4 6:3 2008 Roland Garros]

Tied in H2H 1-1 on clay.

v. Azarenka hardcourt

Safina d. Azarenka 6:3 6:1 [2008 L.A.]
Safina d. Azarenka 6:0 2:6 6:3 [2008 Montreal]
Azarenka d. Safina 6:7(3) 6:1 6:3 [2009 Indian Wells]

Safina leads H2H 2-1 on hardcourts.
1 bagel, 1 breadstick given. 1 breadstick taken.

v. Azarenka clay

Safina d. Azarenka 6:4 6:1 [2008 Berlin]

Safina has never lost to Azarenka on clay.

v. Kuznetsova hardcourt

Safina d. Kuznetsova 6:4 6:3 [2003 Doha]
Kuznetsova d. Safina 6:3 ret. [2006 Sydney]
Safina d. Kuznetsova 2:6 6:3 6:2 [2008 Montreal]
Safina d. Kuznetsova 6-1 6-3 [2008 Tokyo]

Safina has only lost once to Kuznetsova, 3-1. That win was a retirement.

v. Kuznetsova clay.

getting a weird 2000 Mallorca scoreline bug. Going to link to those really interested. http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/2/players/playerprofiles/playerheadtoheaddetail.asp?PlayerID=110552&Player1ID=190950

Kuznetsova d. Safina 7:6(5) 6:3 [2001 Madrid]
Safina d. Kuznetsova 3:6 6:4 7:5 [2006 Rome]
Kuznetsova d. Safina 7:6(5) 6:0 [2006 Roland Garros]
Safina d. Kuznetsova 6:3 6:2 [2008 Roland Garros]

Clay H2H tied at 2-2.
Kuznetsova has the only bagel dished. '06 Roland Garros.

v. Petrova hardcourt

Petrova d. Safina 6:1 6:4 [2004 Gold Coast]
Petrova d. Safina 3:6 6:2 6:4 [2007 Miami]
Safina d. Petrova 6:1 6:0 [2008 Tokyo]

Petrova leads hardcourt H2H 2-1.
Safina owns most emphatic meeting 6:1 6:0. '08 Tokyo.

v. Petrova clay

Petrova d. Safina 3:6 6:4 6:3 [2006 Berlin]
Petrova d. Safina 6:4 7:5 [2007 Amelia Island]

Safina has never beaten Petrova on clay.

Highlights.

- Of the Top 10, only Petrova has both a WINNING hard(2-1) and clay(2-0) H2H over Safina.
- Safina has a LOSING hardcourt H2H with six of nine of the Top 10.
- Safina has never even beaten FOUR of those SIX. Williams, Williams, Dementieva, Ivanovic.
- Of the Top 10, only two women have a WINNING clay H2H over Safina. Jankovic(1-0), Petrova(2-0)
- Eight of nine women have at least beaten Safina once on hardcourt. Jankovic is the only one without a hardcourt victory.
- Of the current TOP FIVE she has never beaten THREE OF FOUR on hardcourts. Jankovic the only one.

Personally, I was torn between including it but it is up to interpretation. The tour website lists it as indoor hard which differs from carpet, but for the sake of this thread I did not include it.
IF you include indoor hard like Stuttgart '08 and Moscow '08, then Venus(6:4 6:1) and Zvonareva(6:2 7:6) each have one additional straight set win over Safina.
Safina would also have one additional win over Kuznetsova in Moscow '08, 6:4 7:5


Safina's hardcourt credentials are alarming despite her deceptive Flushing Meadows semi and her recent Australian Open final. Her head to head with the current top 10 on hard and clay shows a major disparity in results. Before all the Safina fans run and say she wasn't the same player back then the majority of Serena, Venus, Dementieva, and Zvonareva's wins were already in 2008.

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:26 AM
\up.

goldenlox
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:32 AM
Safina won LA and the Rogers Cup, Silver medal, USO SF and AO final
She can handle hardcourt.
Clay is always better for the players who don't get easy points with their serve

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Safina won LA and the Rogers Cup, Silver medal, USO SF and AO final
She can handle hardcourt.
Clay is always better for the players who don't get easy points with their serve

Yeah she won those tournaments, but who did she beat? The numbers clearly show she is frequently outclassed on hardcourts by the top of the top. I mean that's almost inexcusable. She's about to become world number one and she's never beaten three of the other four top five on the most common surface on the WTA tour? Move over Cornet.

goldenlox
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:42 AM
She was beating Jankovic, LA&Olympics, who made the USO final.
Only Serena has better hardcourt form over the past year and Dinara has better clay form

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:47 AM
She was beating Jankovic, who made the USO final.
Only Serena has better hardcourt form over the past year and Dinara has better clay form

You can't argue with the numbers. When you've never beaten three out of four of your current contemporaries on the most prevalent surface on tour AND you're about to be number one in one week, something is wrong. She beat Jankovic. Want to know why you can't name any other names of note. Because she probably didn't play them or if she did, she lost and it's in the thread.

In fact during that whole Los Angeles to post USO run she only beat Jankovic and Kuznetsova (that were in the Top 10 at that time) to win those events. The rest were players like Pennetta, Cibulkova, and junk.

goldenlox
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:51 AM
She beat Vera at the AO. She beat Jankovic twice.
Who else has good hardcourt results?
Serena and Dinara. You're trying to make it sound like Dinara did nothing
LA title
Rogers Cup title
Olympic Silver medal
USO SF
AO final
Those are strong results, no matter who you play

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:55 AM
She beat Vera at the AO. She beat Jankovic twice.
Who else has good hardcourt results?
Serena and Dinara. You're trying to make it sound like Dinara did nothing
LA title
Rogers Cup title
Olympic Silver medal
USO SF
AO final
Those are strong results, no matter who you play

It's not that she did nothing, but look at her hardcourt stats. That deserves attention for sure. The statistics speak for themselves. There is a gap in class with Safina on a hardcourt. She's really going to show what she is made of defending all of those hardcourt points this year. Let's not even mention her on grass with that movement and forehand grip/technique.

goldenlox
Apr 16th, 2009, 11:58 AM
I don't know what she's going to do. In LA she beat Azarenka and Jankovic.
She earned her points

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:03 PM
I don't know what she's going to do. In LA she beat Azarenka and Jankovic.
She earned her points

Yeah in LA she won beating only one player that was ranked inside the Top 15.

Even in reaching the final of Australian Open, she had MPs against her versus Cornet. Not to say Cornet should have won that match but everyone here knows Cornet is horribly mediocre on hardcourt and facing MP against her on hardcourt IN A SLAM? Ridiculous.

AnnaK_4ever
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:03 PM
If I remember correctly WTA Tour doesn't award you bonus points for winning on hardcourts.

goldenlox
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:13 PM
At the AO Azarenka was up a set on Serena and retired.
Sveta was up a set and they closed the roof.
So Serena's big outdoor hardcourt win in Australia was 3rd round AO.

You can take apart anyone's results.
Dinara's results are very strong

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:23 PM
At the AO Azarenka was up a set on Serena and retired.
Sveta was up a set and they closed the roof.
So Serena's big outdoor hardcourt win in Australia was 3rd round AO.

You can take apart anyone's results.
Dinara's results are very strong

No one is denying her actual RESULTS are good, but overall I think it is clear Safina struggles on hardcourts. She's just a different player and numbers show when she faces opposition at the very top on hardcourts she is losing. Hardcourts are supposed to be the neutral surface, so you would think for someone about to be number one that she wouldn't be so outclassed when she goes against the very top.

Safina is only an upgrade of Cornet.

MyskinaManiac
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:37 PM
...
Safina is only an upgrade of Cornet.

I think Cornet is pretty good player, I wouldnt' compare her to Safina. Safina changes between two styles of play. When she's winning she plays a very offensive style, hitting from side to side and deep. And then there's the other style, which we've been graced with this year, that being extremely defensive play.

Cornet represents clay court tennis... and defensive play.

frenchie
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:42 PM
Safina on clay >> Safina on hard

azza
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:44 PM
post

MyskinaManiac
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:53 PM
post

One of the more memorable posts...-_- one which I'll remember for the rest of my crappy life. =p

ElusiveChanteuse
Apr 16th, 2009, 12:57 PM
Nadia should be #1.:(

Pristine
Apr 16th, 2009, 10:35 PM
post

:confused:

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 17th, 2009, 01:43 AM
what worked for her last year on clay was the looper she liked to put up when on the defense which usually went deep and pushed back her opponent...it gave her the time on clay to get back into the point...on HC it's not nearly as effective especially quicker HCs since a player like serena or maria will just step in a rip it through the court since they will now be on a comfortable surface for them...

i think her advantage last year also was that she was on such a high knowing she had nothing to defend...but the safina i saw at YEC and AO was one who refused to go and win the matches...in that cornet match she just sat and waited for the error but that won't build her confidence....serena and maria gain confidence by making shots at critical moments even if playing like crap...

it will remain to be seen if she gains back the confidence now on the red clay or if the pressure of defending has really gotten to her

duhcity
Apr 17th, 2009, 03:42 AM
Safina sucks at wind.
Her serve, her shots, everything can be easily ripped apart if its a windy day.

The wind screwed her in Charlston 07, all of Doha last year, and the USO Semi (which I personally think in terms of form Serena would've won anyway, but it would've been a three setter).

Oh and also, her serve sucks ass. It's not easy pulling off such a high toss. When its good, its good. When it's off, its absolutely horrible

Golovinjured.
Apr 17th, 2009, 03:49 AM
Safina is okay on hardcourt, but she's better on clay. So, it's more like Jekyll/a little less Jekyll.

Tennis Ball
Apr 17th, 2009, 05:39 AM
If I remember correctly WTA Tour doesn't award you bonus points for winning on hardcourts.

:worship: Post of the day.

bobbynorwich
May 9th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Somehow I think her coach is going to whip her into shape on every surface before too long.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
May 9th, 2009, 07:17 PM
The WTA Tour is week on clay these days

sweetpeas
May 9th, 2009, 07:21 PM
Thanks.Pristine! GOOD DAM JOB!:wavey::wavey::bounce::kiss::cool::):lol:

LUVMIRZA
May 9th, 2009, 07:24 PM
Somehow I think her coach is going to whip her into shape on every surface before too long.

Exactly. Her coach is one of the best in the business. Its her big swings that take off the timing of her shots in hard courts. I guess she can do some changes when she plays in hard courts. And after she beat Venus yesday she has gained more confidence as we saw how she handled Kuzzie today:)

LudwigDvorak
May 9th, 2009, 07:24 PM
She's made four finals in a row on clay--Berlin, Paris, Stuttgart, Rome. She made the finals of Rome and Charleston before, before 2008 most of her top ten wins had come on clay, most still are.

She's incredible on clay but simply can't find that form anywhere else, even when she's winning. It's just her best surface, which is fair enough.

Still, I just wonder if she can keep these kind of results up once clay is over. She will struggle on grass, but her hardcourt form was pathetic, even if she made the final of Melbourne. I hope, for her sake as our #1, that she keeps it up.

She's definitely playing like a #1 now, but I have to wonder if it's just because of the surface for the time being.

goldenlox
May 9th, 2009, 07:27 PM
She is a USO semi finalist, Rogers Cup champion, LA champion, Olympic silver on hardcourt. AO finalist and Sydney
She's only been good for one year.
This summer is hardcourt season number 2.
She sucked after the AO, but that wasn't the form she had last summer.

Zvonareva.
Aug 7th, 2009, 04:21 PM
Definitely struggles.

SAEKeithSerena
Aug 7th, 2009, 08:09 PM
why so much hate on this woman? seriously

BuTtErFrEnA
Aug 7th, 2009, 08:21 PM
:lol: