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View Full Version : Another shooting in the US: father kills 5 children and then himself


tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 07:44 AM
Wash. police: Father kills 5 children, himself


GRAHAM, Wash. – A father apparently shot to death five of his children, ages 7 to 16, at their mobile home and then killed himself near a casino miles away, police said Saturday.
Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff, called it a domestic violence situation and a murder-suicide.
"We believe they all died of gunshot wounds," Troyer said.
Police found the father's body early Saturday in his still-running car near the Muckleshoot Casino in Auburn, about 30 miles south of Seattle. He had apparently killed himself with a rifle, although no note was left in the car, Auburn Police Sgt. Scott Near said.
Later in the day, a relative stopped by the mobile home and called authorities after seeing a child lying motionless on a bed through a window. Pierce County deputies checked the mobile home, which is about 20 miles southeast of the casino, and found four of the children dead in their beds and the fifth in the bathroom.
Troyer said investigators believe the husband and the wife, who was not home, were not estranged.
The mother's aunt, Penny Flansburg, was at a loss to explain the crime.
"They were pleasant together," Flansburg said. "We can't even figure out why."
Flansburg identified the couple as Angela and James Harrison and the children as Maxine, Samantha, Heather, Jamie and James. The father worked as a diesel mechanic, and the mother works at Wal-Mart, Flansburg said.
Ryan Peden, a classmate of the eldest daughter, said she told him Friday night that her parents had gotten into a fight and her mother had left. The father followed the mother and tried to get her to return, said Peden, 16.
Neighbors in the Deer Run mobile home park, a neat, well-kept community nestled among towering evergreens, were shocked and weeping at the news.
"How could something like this happen?" asked Mary Ripplinger, whose kids were playmates of the slain children. "Everyone's asking: Why did he do it? It's not right."
Pierce County Sheriff Paul Pastor described the crime as a "horrible thing."
"This was not a tragedy. It was a rotten murder," Pastor said. "This appears to be the terrible work of the biological father. If that doesn't break your heart, I don't know what does."
Another neighbor, Dale Lund, told The Seattle Times the 7-year-old boy who was killed played at times with his grandson and the boys shared the same school bus stop and attended the same elementary school together.
He said the dead boy played in his own yard most of the time.
"They pretty much kept to themselves over there," Lund said.
Dozens of investigators were on the scene trying to reconstruct the crime and discover a motive.

Lin Lin
Apr 5th, 2009, 07:46 AM
The guns should be controlled better:(

Solitaire
Apr 5th, 2009, 07:56 AM
The guns should be controlled better:(

Oh don't let the NRA hear you say that! Remember guns don't kill people, people do. So everyone should have a gun. :armed:

Lin Lin
Apr 5th, 2009, 07:58 AM
everyone should have a gun:unsure::scared:

mckyle.
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:01 AM
I'll be glad when this recession is over :o

tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:02 AM
this "father" had a job so not sure why blame the recession

Solitaire
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:05 AM
everyone should have a gun:unsure::scared:

Yes esp the panda in ur avatar! :armed: Imagine hords of Panda's running wild in the streets with guns.

Lin Lin
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:09 AM
Oh don't let the NRA hear you say that! Remember guns don't kill people, people do. So everyone should have a gun. :armed:

According to your logic, why shall we fight against drugs?The drugs also can't be a threat to people and society,but people who abuse the drugs are responsible:)

So,my point is:Guns and drugs are all existing threats to the society,so guns should be well controlled or banned for individuals as we do against drugs:)

And a government which fails to manage guns should be blamed:o

Lin Lin
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:11 AM
Yes esp the panda in ur avatar! :armed: Imagine hords of Panda's running wild in the streets with guns.

I hope I can see a group of pandas running in the streets:awww::sobbing:

Solitaire
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:16 AM
According to your logic, why shall we fight against drugs?The drugs also can't be a threat to people and society,but people who abuse the drugs are responsible:)

So,my point is:Guns and drugs are all existing threats to the society,so guns should be well controlled or banned for individuals as we do against drugs:)

And a government which fails to manage guns should be blamed:o

Oh you silly buns I was being sarcastic. I thought it was pretty obvious.:lol: I'll agree with the banning of guns or at least making them extremely hard to obtain. As for keeping drugs illegal I couldn't disagree with you more.


I hope I can see a group of pandas running in the streets:awww::sobbing:

Awww me too. :sad:

young_gunner913
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:47 AM
Oh don't let the NRA hear you say that! Remember guns don't kill people, people do. So everyone should have a gun. :armed:

:spit: you beat me to it. :worship:

but yeah this is just horrible.
so many people in the U.S are getting wasted by family members nowadays. :tape:
its so sad that children are being victimized. :help:

Edinboro
Apr 5th, 2009, 10:03 AM
Wow, this is beyond words. Wtf, is wrong with people? :(

gentenaire
Apr 5th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Jamie and James? I suppose they kept trying for a boy, gave up at the 4th child and gave her the boys name they always had in mind.

Elwin.
Apr 5th, 2009, 10:42 AM
omg :o
shooting after shooting :sad:

rip :hug:

bad_angel_109
Apr 5th, 2009, 10:56 AM
omg :speakles: children as well! wtf, dont kill other people. this is harsh but if ur gonna kill urself DONT take others with u

rockstar
Apr 5th, 2009, 11:32 AM
when i first saw this thread title, i really couldnt tell if this case is new or if it's an older "another man kills himself and family" :o

Bijoux0021
Apr 5th, 2009, 11:50 AM
Sadly, it's a new case. I don't know what's going on in this world, but there's been lots of these types of cases lately, and people just committing mass murder in general by using guns. :sad:

http://www.rr.com/home/home/article/9000/7358865/Wash_police_Father_kills_5_children_himself

meyerpl
Apr 5th, 2009, 02:19 PM
People who use guns to murder people are breaking the law. What makes anyone think that those people would obey a law restricting firearms if they don't obey laws prohibiting murder? And if an otherwise law abiding person snaps and decides to kill their children, if they don't have a firearm, they will drown them in the bathtub, throw them off a bridge, put them in their car and drive it into a lake, etc.
People do bad things. They always have and always will. It seem that nowdays people want to try to create enough laws to eliminate bad behavior and make everyone safe. It doesn't work. People do bad things. When we limit freedom to try making the world a safer place, the result isn't a safer world, just less freedom.

tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 02:25 PM
People who use guns to murder people are breaking the law. What makes anyone think that those people would obey a law restricting firearms if they don't obey laws prohibiting murder? And if an otherwise law abiding person snaps and decides to kill their children, if they don't have a firearm, they will drown them in the bathtub, throw them off a bridge, put them in their car and drive it into a lake, etc.
People do bad things. They always have and always will. It seem that nowdays people want to try to create enough laws to eliminate bad behavior and make everyone safe. It doesn't work. People do bad things. When we limit freedom to try making the world a safer place, the result isn't a safer world, just less freedom.

Those are just weak excuses for guns.. It is a lot more diffcult to do all those things in a snap than to shoot.

You don't have to go far. Look and compare stats for the US with countries where guns use/ownership is limited. Murders happen there as well but not EVERY DAY in numbers that are difficult to explain other than too many guns outthere.

And why does someone even need a gun?

Expat
Apr 5th, 2009, 02:29 PM
And why does someone even need a gun?
To defend yourself against someone invading your house.

No Name Face
Apr 5th, 2009, 02:34 PM
To defend yourself against someone invading your house.

If no one has guns, then why do you need a gun to defend yourself?

Expat
Apr 5th, 2009, 02:49 PM
If no one has guns, then why do you need a gun to defend yourself?
Oh please , a criminal can get a gun easily its the honest law abiding citizen who suffers from gun control laws. You think the states with the biggest gun control laws don't have gang violence.

Timariot
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:04 PM
Those are just weak excuses for guns.. It is a lot more diffcult to do all those things in a snap than to shoot.

You don't have to go far. Look and compare stats for the US with countries where guns use/ownership is limited. Murders happen there as well but not EVERY DAY in numbers that are difficult to explain other than too many guns outthere.


Alas, it's not quite that simple - if you look at many East European countries, they have often very strict gun laws, yet murder and suicide rates are very high, often much higher than USA. Or take Japan, where there have been several high-profile massacres in recent years.´


And why does someone even need a gun?

Dunno. Why does someone need a sports car. Or motorcycle. Or bow.

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:06 PM
Again some NWO creators use tragic story to promote anti-FREEDOM lobby...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Every day people are dying on the streets hit by cars. Ban cars first. And stop telling shit about how "cars have purpose, guns don't have"...

And why does someone even need a gun?

- to hunt
- to defend himself
- to shoot to targets

Anything else...?

Timariot
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:07 PM
If no one has guns, then why do you need a gun to defend yourself?

Uhh...I don't personally feel needing a gun for home defence as home invasions are extremely rare where I live...but good luck trying to defend yourself against someone with a knife or axe without a gun...

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:08 PM
To be honest- I am against guns as well. But I don't want to prohibit it for others. I don't have a moral RIGHT to prohibit guns to anyone. Does government have a RIGHT to prohibit anything wich doesn't harm the others ?

tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Oh please , a criminal can get a gun easily its the honest law abiding citizen who suffers from gun control laws. You think the states with the biggest gun control laws don't have gang violence.

YEAH and how many cases outthere when someone was actually able to use the gun in cases like this? :help:

these are nothing but stinky NRA accuses. the law dates to more than 200 years ago and it is obviously obsolete

tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:23 PM
To be honest- I am against guns as well. But I don't want to prohibit it for others. I don't have a moral RIGHT to prohibit guns to anyone. Does government have a RIGHT to prohibit anything wich doesn't harm the others ?


thinking about someone's right to have a gun :worship:

how about others' right to live? like those 5 children?

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:24 PM
YEAH and how many cases outthere when someone was actually able to use the gun in cases like this? :help:

these are nothing but stinky NRA accuses. the law dates to more than 200 years ago and it is obviously obsolete

Ask my quuestion, please.

Do I have RIGHT to ban anything wich not harm others itself ? Does government has RIGHT to ban anything wich doesn't harm others itself ? Are we free people or bunch of cows ?


how about others' right to live? like those 5 children?

Having a gun itself harm others right to live ?

Car drivers in my city are bigger threat to me than madmen with a gun.

tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:25 PM
Alas, it's not quite that simple - if you look at many East European countries, they have often very strict gun laws, yet murder and suicide rates are very high, often much higher than USA. Or take Japan, where there have been several high-profile massacres in recent years.´

yet I'm sure you will fail to give an example on one country where it happens every week and more than once.

NObody says things will not happen once the guns are gone, but sure there will be a lot fewer cases. only dishonest ppl would argue it. sorry for being direct.

RenaSlam.
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Another?

My god.

tenn_ace
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Do I have RIGHT to ban anything wich not harm others itself ? Does government has RIGHT to ban anything wich doesn't harm others itself ? Are we free people or bunch of cows ?

Having a gun itself harm others right to live ?

Car drivers in my city are bigger threat to me than madmen with a gun.

1. Not but government has the right AND moral obligation to its law oboding citizens
2. yes, see above
3. as it happens, yes.
4. as it turns out - yes. ask those 5 children.
5. car drivers deaths in most cases are not pre-medited

Expat
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:30 PM
YEAH and how many cases outthere when someone was actually able to use the gun in cases like this? :help:

these are nothing but stinky NRA accuses. the law dates to more than 200 years ago and it is obviously obsolete

If someone wants to kill his family he can easily kill otherwise too. In South Asia the most popular is giving poison in food. In Britain it is knifing people. Bottom line is that you don't suspect your father to kill you so you eat the poison he gives you or be shot from the gun he keeps at home.

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 03:34 PM
1. Not but government has the right AND moral obligation to its law oboding citizens
2. yes, see above

Who gavbe that right to government ? Who said that government OWNS me ? "We the people" in "democratic election" ? Don't make me laugh, I haven't elected my government. Its not my government, its my opressor.

3. as it happens, yes.

Yes ? We are bunch of cows ? Aren't we homo sapiens with free will ?

4. as it turns out - yes. ask those 5 children.

Wait, I haven't said that shootinng to children should be legal. I asked You about OWNING a gun, not shooting to children...

5. car drivers deaths in most cases are not pre-medited

Is there a diffrence to me will I be thrashed by not premedited car driver, or shot by premedited gun madman ?

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 04:12 PM
Things wich anti-gunners are supossed to belive:

- That restrictions on the possession of weapons are effective - so there are no illegal weapons in Northern Ireland or Beirut.
- That a proper response to an attack is called the police - but only the unarmed police, because "Violence does not lead to anything."
- That the hijacker will take the weapon from from pilot with ease - but a hundred passengers on board will not be able to take weapon from hijacker.
- That if the arms would be on board American Airlines Flight 11 then someone could get hurt.
- That rapists prefer to attack armed women to take the weapon from them and use it against him.
- That umbrella or hair spray are powerful tools for self-defense - despite the fact that the police still bear arms.
- That the state of Washington has a low coefficient of 80.6 murders per 100,000 inhabitants only by strictly limiting the possession of weapons - but in Virginia the high rate of 1.6 homicides per 100,000 is due to free access to weapons.
- That man can have a nerve disorder and depression, so should not have an access to weapons of energy 350J - but this is not a reason to prohibit the possession of car with 2 tone of 1.500.000J energy.
- That NASA, Army, and coaches agreed, and the results on Olympics confirm that the average man has more power than women - but women should try to defend themselves fighting with bare hands and not with weapons.
- That police comming with a speed of 130 km / h is a better way to stop criminals than bullet with a speed of 1,300 km / h.
- That people buying weapons as "a substitute for the penis" because only people with a small penis are attacked by criminals.
- That when someone died because it could not receive medical care which state is not provide ,then its a tragedy - but when he died because was unable to defend himself with a gun with which the State did not allow it to hold, its normal case.
- That criminals are somehow more dangerous to the cops than to ordinary people - so the police need weapons and an ordinary citizen do not need.
- That intelligent people should support a ban on possession of weapons because they should know they are too stupid to be trusted, and have a right to own the gun
- That the legal prohibition on possession of weapons that will cause people not to having guns - just like the speed limit to 50 km / h will cause that no one is driving faster
- That we should fight with problem of crimes committed with illegally owned weapons by taking weapon from thos who own its legaly.
- That the more helpless you are, the more safe you are.
- That weapon is the cause of crime - just like women cause prostitution.
- That gun, with 4 switches and levers is too complicated to teach young people to use it - as opposed to a car that has 20.
- That people who possess weapons for fear of criminals are paranoics - but people who do not want others to have weapons for fear are rationalists
- That universal access to weapons in the U.S. results in high rates of crime even if it is restrictive Japan its three times higher.
- That police and soldiers are the elite of society, specifically designated to perform the work for which they are perfectly placed with high moral standards and big intelect, therefore they can use the complicated tools and be our guardians.
- That is acceptable to hire bodyguard and pay him 5 € / day. to shoot to criminals who are dngerous to your money - but its not acceptable to do it yourself.
- That require the use of condoms instead of abstinence is destinated to fail but to ban the possession of weapons instead of educate people how to use it properly is the only effective method.
- That weapon is not an effective tool for self-defense. Despite the fact that police still use it.
- That you don't need a gun and you have a right to enforce your belief on others.
- That guns causes crimes- and thats why there were no murders in Middle Ages.
- That "less guns- safer we are". So there is much more guns in schools than in gun shops.
- That suicider who killed himself with a gun would be still alive if he would use knife or cord.
- That killing a murderer to not become his victim is "escalation of violence".
- That gun owner would be less violent with a knife except gun in his hand.
- That intolerance and stereotypes sucks- but its well known fact that every gun owner is retard, alcoholic and sexual impotent.

Timariot
Apr 5th, 2009, 05:13 PM
yet I'm sure you will fail to give an example on one country where it happens every week and more than once.


I can think of dozens of such countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

meyerpl
Apr 5th, 2009, 06:37 PM
Those are just weak excuses for guns.. It is a lot more diffcult to do all those things in a snap than to shoot.

You don't have to go far. Look and compare stats for the US with countries where guns use/ownership is limited. Murders happen there as well but not EVERY DAY in numbers that are difficult to explain other than too many guns outthere.

And why does someone even need a gun?To hunt with for starters. Hunting is a legal activity and a necessary wildlife management tool in today's world. It's also a tradition and an important source of food in many families. Are you a hunter or a gun owner? If not, then it's real easy for you to say people shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

meyerpl
Apr 5th, 2009, 06:42 PM
1. Not but government has the right AND moral obligation to its law oboding citizens
2. yes, see above
3. as it happens, yes.
4. as it turns out - yes. ask those 5 children.
5. car drivers deaths in most cases are not pre-meditedIf it's really children you care about, you should advocate getting rid of the automobile. They aren't really necessary and they kill far, far more children than guns. There are plenty of alternatives. People got along fine without them for thousands of years. And look at the harm they do to the planet. The automobile is an unnecessary luxury that does much greater harm to people, animals and the planet than guns. But this isn't really about children, is it? This is about you not liking guns and wanting to impose your values on everyone else.

Williamsser
Apr 5th, 2009, 06:49 PM
In rural areas, people have to wait a very long time for police to arrive. What do they do in events such as when intruders break into their homes? The people in these rural communities need guns to protect themselves.

Ciarán
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:32 PM
OMG :tears:

Halardfan
Apr 5th, 2009, 08:55 PM
There is no comparisson between cars and guns, there just isnt. I havent got the energy to repeat why.

These things happen considerably more regularly in the US, propotionately, than any comparable western nation.

Lets pretend thats nothing to do with guns, or the attitude to them...tell me why is it happening? Because it IS happening.

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 09:16 PM
There is no comparisson between cars and guns, there just isnt. I havent got the energy to repeat why.

These things happen considerably more regularly in the US, propotionately, than any comparable western nation.

Lets pretend thats nothing to do with guns, or the attitude to them...tell me why is it happening? Because it IS happening.

Of course there isn't. Cars kill much more people.

Accidents with cars happens more regularly in places where cars are accesible than in places where there are no cars.

Lets pretend thats nothing to do with cars or the attitude to them...tell me why is it happening? Because it IS happening..

Halardfan
Apr 5th, 2009, 09:56 PM
Of course there isn't. Cars kill much more people.

Accidents with cars happens more regularly in places where cars are accesible than in places where there are no cars.

Lets pretend thats nothing to do with cars or the attitude to them...tell me why is it happening? Because it IS happening..

I guess you dont have an answer?

The main purpose of a car is to take a person from A to B.

A gun is a weapon. It is designed to be a weapon, exists to be a weapon.

Cant you understand the fundemental difference?

Under your logic, I should be able lay landmines in my back garden in case of burglars!

saint2
Apr 5th, 2009, 10:03 PM
A gun is a weapon. It is designed to be a weapon, exists to be a weapon.

Weapon is not nesesary designated to killing ! What about hunting ? Or self defence ? Should it be forbidden too ?

cynicole
Apr 5th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Oooh, fun, a car vs. gun argument. :tape:

FWIW, I'm more concerned about people feeling so down-and-out that they feel they have to kill people or that murdering other people is OK (or even committed as a form of "mercy") just because you feel bad or unlucky or whatever.