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2Black
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:25 PM
Remember in the 2001 US Open semifinal match between Venus & Capriati, 98% of that crowd was for Jennifer. Cappy had won 2 slams to Venus' 1. It was build as the match for player of the year - assuming the winner would go on to win the title the following night. I had never been so excited about a tennis match in all my life. It was like an NFL playoff game. As I watched the 1st set, I remember this one point where one of Venus' balls caught the back of the line but the crowd thought it was out. It was at that point where I thought - "oh o Venus has no support today" - Some booed, others screamed out while the rest were outraged the linesman hadn't called out. It was at that point where I also thought, I've got to start going to some big tennis tournaments so I can give my girls some support. I had no interest in calling anyone racist - waste of my energy. I actually got motivated & called a few fellas about doing our own version of Blake's cheering quad but for the sistahs. (But the bruthas just couldn't come up with the money :help: :lol:)

When Attorney General Holder called Americans cowards, my mind thought about a number of things, including tennis...I have always admitted that I cheer for all black people in tennis because it is a sport we haven't excelled in as much. I love Venus, Serena, Monfils, Tsonga, James, Donald, Scofield, Asha, Angela, etc. I always want them to win - no questions ask. Now I also like Ivanovic (cuz she phine :hearts:) and Federer and cheer for them loudly & clearly but not if they're playing a black player. Some would call me racist - maybe you will. But all I'm doing is what I saw at that US Open. I didn't call those men & women racist. I, maybe naievely, thought they just wanted someone that looked like them to win.

When me & 3 of my boys finally had a chance to go to the 2004 YEC, we hooped & hollered for Serena liked nobody's business as if we were at Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium. So much so, that an older black couple sitting in front of us told us that we were embarrassing them. To which I responded - you must not have seen how Venus was treated at the 2001 semifinal in New York. She turned around & said nothing else to us the rest of the night.

Remember this thread is birthed out of the speech by attorney general Holder for Americans to have open/honest and constructive communication on race. Obviously, tennis has been considered a white racist sport for a long time. So why do we really cheer for who we cheer for? YOUR THOUGHTS?

Slutiana
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:35 PM
I think I used to do the same when I was younger but now I just support whoever I like, I mean I still have black favouites like Serena/Venus/Monfils and I do cheer for players like Washington, but Tsonga annoys the shit out of me and there's no way im supporting that arrogant mofo. :sobbing:

LindsayRulz
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:39 PM
Venus has won 3 slams before the 01 USO. :p

shap_half
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:47 PM
Remember in the 2001 US Open semifinal match between Venus & Capriati, 98% of that crowd was for Jennifer. Cappy had won 2 slams to Venus' 1. It was build as the match for player of the year - assuming the winner would go on to win the title the following night. I had never been so excited about a tennis match in all my life. It was like an NFL playoff game. As I watched the 1st set, I remember this one point where one of Venus' balls caught the back of the line but the crowd thought it was out. It was at that point where I thought - "oh o Venus has no support today" - Some booed, others screamed out while the rest were outraged the linesman hadn't called out. It was at that point where I also thought, I've got to start going to some big tennis tournaments so I can give my girls some support. I had no interest in calling anyone racist - waste of my energy. I actually got motivated & called a few fellas about doing our own version of Blake's cheering quad but for the sistahs. (But the bruthas just couldn't come up with the money :help: :lol:)

When Attorney General Holder called Americans cowards, my mind thought about a number of things, including tennis...I have always admitted that I cheer for all black people in tennis because it is a sport we haven't excelled in as much. I love Venus, Serena, Monfils, Tsonga, James, Donald, Scofield, Asha, Angela, etc. I always want them to win - no questions ask. Now I also like Ivanovic (cuz she phine :hearts:) and Federer and cheer for them loudly & clearly but not if they're playing a black player. Some would call me racist - maybe you will. But all I'm doing is what I saw at that US Open. I didn't call those men & women racist. I, maybe naievely, thought they just wanted someone that looked like them to win.

When me & 3 of my boys finally had a chance to go to the 2004 YEC, we hooped & hollered for Serena liked nobody's business as if we were at Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium. So much so, that an older black couple sitting in front of us told us that we were embarrassing them. To which I responded - you must not have seen how Venus was treated at the 2001 semifinal in New York. She turned around & said nothing else to us the rest of the night.

Remember this thread is birthed out of the speech by attorney general Holder for Americans to have open/honest and constructive communication on race. Obviously, tennis has been considered a white racist sport for a long time. So why do we really cheer for who we cheer for? YOUR THOUGHTS?

I'm not really sure the match between Jen and Venus had any racial issues in it. I remember when Justine and Jen played for the 2003 USO finals. They were behaving much like you described. I think that had a lot to do with how Justine lost that first set, but obviously fought and rallied to win the match much to the dismay of the spectators. I think the USO crowd just really loves Jen much more than any other American female player in recent memory.

2Black
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:51 PM
Venus has won 3 slams before the 01 USO. :p

What I meant was Jen had won the 01 Aussie & French & Venus had won the '01 Wimbledon - so 2 slams to 1 for 2001

miffedmax
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:51 PM
I suspect that one of the reasons I like Dementieva is that I find her extremely attractive, and the fact that I find a tall, blond woman attractive probably has something to do with being white, and growing up in a white-dominated society and being old enough that tall, blonde and white was pushed as a beauty ideal even harder than it is today. On the other hand, it isn't just that, as there are certainly other (one in particular) tall, blonde white players I could be fans of if that was my sole criteria. I like her game, her personality, her brains, there's a kind of anti-divaness about Elena that was especially refreshing when she came along in 99-00.

I agree that a lot of us wold rather not talk about issues of race. A lot of whites would like to pretend the problem is solved when it isn't. There are times when I feel like perceived prejudice or racism by various groups is actually the result of ignorance or laziness (we had a looong discussion about some ads in this regard, not sure where that thread went). It's a very difficult issue to deal with, especially for those of us who grew with feet in both worlds--we remember and experienced some of the worst of the bad old days, but we have the dream of how it should be. Those two can be very hard to reconcile. I believe Volcana had a very good post on this at one point.

Sometimes, I think whites need to stop and count to 10 before they say "race card." And blacks (and other minorities) should count to 10 before they say "racist." Those are both very poisonous terms and polarize discussions before they can even begin. Just look at some of the discussions around here and see how quickly what could be chances to learn and educate each other about why we feel the way we do quickly devolve into "Well you hate blacks/whites." "Oh yeah? Well you hate whites/blacks" kindergarten tantrums.

On the other hand, some of the most interesting, informative discussions I've had on a number of topics and experiences have been with members of this board who come from different backgrounds than I do. So I know it can be done.

It's also interesting to see how much less of an issue it is for my kids, both of whom go to inner city schools that are majority minority. I notice that. They really don't.

2Black
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:00 PM
I suspect that one of the reasons I like Dementieva is that I find her extremely attractive, and the fact that I find a tall, blond woman attractive probably has something to do with being white, and growing up in a white-dominated society and being old enough that tall, blonde and white was pushed as a beauty ideal even harder than it is today. On the other hand, it isn't just that, as there are certainly other (one in particular) tall, blonde white players I could be fans of if that was my sole criteria. I like her game, her personality, her brains, there's a kind of anti-divaness about Elena that was especially refreshing when she came along in 99-00.

I agree that a lot of us wold rather not talk about issues of race. A lot of whites would like to pretend the problem is solved when it isn't. There are times when I feel like perceived prejudice or racism by various groups is actually the result of ignorance or laziness (we had a looong discussion about some ads in this regard, not sure where that thread went). It's a very difficult issue to deal with, especially for those of us who grew with feet in both worlds--we remember and experienced some of the worst of the bad old days, but we have the dream of how it should be. Those two can be very hard to reconcile. I believe Volcana had a very good post on this at one point.

Sometimes, I think whites need to stop and count to 10 before they say "race card." And blacks (and other minorities) should count to 10 before they say "racist." Those are both very poisonous terms and polarize discussions before they can even begin. Just look at some of the discussions around here and see how quickly what could be chances to learn and educate each other about why we feel the way we do quickly devolve into "Well you hate blacks/whites." "Oh yeah? Well you hate whites/blacks" kindergarten tantrums.

On the other hand, some of the most interesting, informative discussions I've had on a number of topics and experiences have been with members of this board who come from different backgrounds than I do. So I know it can be done.

It's also interesting to see how much less of an issue it is for my kids, both of whom go to inner city schools that are majority minority. I notice that. They really don't.

GReat Post :worship: This is what I'm talking about ... I'm hoping more people on this board will write posts like this on this topic. So much to be learned...

spartanfan
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:02 PM
Interesting thread topic. But for me I have talked about race with my friends when it has come up in conversation in the past, but it gets so old after a while. I live in Atlanta, where every week there is another story about race in the news media, black vs. white and it has gotten incredibly stale and old. I also see the whole race thing becoming less and less of an issue and I can see that in the younger generations. It just seems like the younger generations (30 and under) don't have the same hangups as older Americans when it comes to race-its a nonissue (thank God).
With respect to tennis I first started really paying attention to tennis in the early 90's and was a huge fan of Courier, Agassi, Chang and Mal Washington. But it wasn't until Venus came along before I started to follow the sport like a religion. And right now on the womens side Venus and Serena are the main reasons why I pay attention to womens tennis. I will always root for Serena, no matter who she plays (Dubai aside, Venus really needed that win after that mess she brought at the AO) On the mens side I do enjoy Tsongas, Monfils, Young, and Jenkins, but I can't stand to watch James Blake play. But I also love watching Federer, Kiefer, Haas, Verdasco, Djokovic, Kohlschreiber, Schuettler, Gasquet and to a lesser extent Roddick. And my love and enjoyment of these players has nothing to do with race: its simply because I enjoy their game and personalities.

kiwifan
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:03 PM
I've cheered loud for Connors, Evert, Seles and the Williams Sisters.

Why? Because they all represent players who loved to kick ass - those of you who are too young to know better should know Evert the Ice Maiden used to kick everyone's ass without cracking a smile until the matches were over. Navrat didn't start hitting the weights for fun, check their early head to head :devil:

I don't cheer for skin color - I'd support Connors over Ashe and Seles over Zina; BUT of course I'm happy when Black Tennis Players do well since I know first hand* that there are lots of bigots out there who honestly believe that Blacks are inferior tennis players because they aren't as smart as white people. :rolleyes: And I can't be everywhere to clearly disprove such nonsense. :hehehe: :smoke:

I'm a suburban Black male who has always had and probably always will have more white friends than black friends but my family comes from an American Black Nationalist tradition the creed in summary (in the face of racism): "we are Americans too and you'll beg us to claim equality once we've shown that we're better than you." :lol:

I don't doubt, especially early on that many White Tennis Fans wanted the Williams' family to fail - some because they are Black - some because Richard Williams didn't follow the traditional path or because he talks too much and some simply liked someone else.

I think now the majority have learned to respect the Sisters achievements just like the majority had to learn to respect Navrat's achievements - I don't know that it is "the love" that all athletes want; but money and respect are enough for now.

*from playing tennis since the early 1970s and a small child.

spartanfan
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:06 PM
I suspect that one of the reasons I like Dementieva is that I find her extremely attractive, and the fact that I find a tall, blond woman attractive probably has something to do with being white, and growing up in a white-dominated society and being old enough that tall, blonde and white was pushed as a beauty ideal even harder than it is today. On the other hand, it isn't just that, as there are certainly other (one in particular) tall, blonde white players I could be fans of if that was my sole criteria. I like her game, her personality, her brains, there's a kind of anti-divaness about Elena that was especially refreshing when she came along in 99-00.

I agree that a lot of us wold rather not talk about issues of race. A lot of whites would like to pretend the problem is solved when it isn't. There are times when I feel like perceived prejudice or racism by various groups is actually the result of ignorance or laziness (we had a looong discussion about some ads in this regard, not sure where that thread went). It's a very difficult issue to deal with, especially for those of us who grew with feet in both worlds--we remember and experienced some of the worst of the bad old days, but we have the dream of how it should be. Those two can be very hard to reconcile. I believe Volcana had a very good post on this at one point.

Sometimes, I think whites need to stop and count to 10 before they say "race card." And blacks (and other minorities) should count to 10 before they say "racist." Those are both very poisonous terms and polarize discussions before they can even begin. Just look at some of the discussions around here and see how quickly what could be chances to learn and educate each other about why we feel the way we do quickly devolve into "Well you hate blacks/whites." "Oh yeah? Well you hate whites/blacks" kindergarten tantrums.

On the other hand, some of the most interesting, informative discussions I've had on a number of topics and experiences have been with members of this board who come from different backgrounds than I do. So I know it can be done.

It's also interesting to see how much less of an issue it is for my kids, both of whom go to inner city schools that are majority minority. I notice that. They really don't.
Thankfully, the young people of today have really made progress and don't have many of the same hangups as their parents: racism, ageism, sexism, etc..I really think the election of President Obama has pushed us even more so down the road in terms of really judging a person on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin, or their sex, or age or sexual preference.

misael
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:14 PM
I'm not really sure the match between Jen and Venus had any racial issues in it. I remember when Justine and Jen played for the 2003 USO finals. They were behaving much like you described. I think that had a lot to do with how Justine lost that first set, but obviously fought and rallied to win the match much to the dismay of the spectators. I think the USO crowd just really loves Jen much more than any other American female player in recent memory. Jen has always been a favorite at The US Open, she was the crowd's darling in 1991 when Monica won, also when she played Diemienteva and Justine, The Us crowd has always LOVED Jen.

shap_half
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:17 PM
Jen has always been a favorite at The US Open, she was the crowd's darling in 1991 when Monica won, also when she played Diemienteva and Justine, The Us crowd has always LOVED Jen.

Right, which is why I believe there probably wasn't any racial motivations behind the crowd's sometimes incredibly rowdy behavior in support of Jen.

duhcity
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:19 PM
Just because they are not cheering for Venus or Serena does not mean the crowd is racist.
Wow.

Ciarán
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:21 PM
Oh Tutu :o

morningglory
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:31 PM
:haha: who are u? A clone of Morissey? Another thread on race...

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:32 PM
I always cheer for black players. Period.

It's harder for them in a sport that they are the extreme minority and doesn't have a tradition of being all that welcoming toward them.

That said, they are not ALL my faves. I have plenty of white faves as well, so.... But, being the "lonely only" in almost EVERYTHING I've ever truly desired to do has given me a fair bit of empathy. :shrug:

2Black
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:36 PM
Just because they are not cheering for Venus or Serena does not mean the crowd is racist.
Wow.

Absolutely right and thankfully, no one has said that.

I want to agree with other post who have said that the younger generation doesn't think about it as much as older people. I have a white friend who loves Blake more than me. In fact, I've pretty much jumped off the Blake fan club but this dude refuses to leave. :lol: He bought James' book, t-shirt, etc. When he & i played a match a couple months ago & I came back to beat him 4-6, 7-6 (10-8), 6-1 after being down 4-6, 0-2 and 2 match points in the tie break, I told him he had adopted James' personality on the court. I asked him why he refused to stop being a Blake fan given the guy has no balls when it comes to bearing down & winning big matches, he simply said ... I just love the guy's forehand. :lol:

Slutiana
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:37 PM
Oh Tutu :o
You have a problem, sir? :rolleyes:

Slutiana
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:39 PM
:haha: who are u? A clone of Morissey? Another thread on race...
:rolleyes: Maybe if you read the first post you might learn something, like S'ingTFU. :)

DA FOREHAND
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:45 PM
Just because they are not cheering for Venus or Serena does not mean the crowd is racist.
Wow. He never said the crowd was racist.

I love that match because the crowd was going bananas for Jen up to 4-1 Venus hits a slew of screaming backhands and it was GSM!

:haha: who are u? A clone of Morissey? Another thread on race...

you too sensitve to talk about race?

disco_rage
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:52 PM
Remember that Jennifer was actually born in NEW YORK.... she was a New Yorker, so of course a New York crowd is gonna be heavily for her.

morningglory
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:54 PM
He never said the crowd was racist.

I love that match because the crowd was going bananas for Jen up to 4-1 Venus hits a slew of screaming backhands and it was GSM!



you too sensitve to talk about race?

nah... although srsly on an internet message board? What good will that do? Sooner or later a flame war's gonna break out.
I dont really care about race... most Asians dont really take sides...
And Im supposing "coward" is referring to that attorney general's words that most Americans are wimps when it comes to talking about race

2Black
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:59 PM
Remember that Jennifer was actually born in NEW YORK.... she was a New Yorker, so of course a New York crowd is gonna be heavily for her.

Maybe, maybe not ... you see, even in florida where they both were residents, the crowd was about 95% for Capriati against Venus in the '01 Miami Final (where Venus saved 8 match points). That's why I'm saying maybe people just like cheering for people who look like them. And it's cool if that's what you want to do. We only get in trouble with others when we pretend that isn't the case and then the truth comes out...

disco_rage
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:04 PM
Maybe, maybe not ... you see, even in florida where they both were residents, the crowd was about 95% for Capriati against Venus in the '01 Miami Final (where Venus saved 8 match points). That's why I'm saying maybe people just like cheering for people who look like them. And it's cool if that's what you want to do. We only get in trouble with others when we pretend that isn't the case and then the truth comes out...
With Capriati, i think it's more her story, everyone loved her as a teen sensation, and then her problems, and then the comeback. Everyone loves a comeback.............and remember back in their early career the Williams sisters were kinda cold and prickley compared to nowadays.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:06 PM
Maybe, maybe not ... you see, even in florida where they both were residents, the crowd was about 95% for Capriati against Venus in the '01 Miami Final (where Venus saved 8 match points). That's why I'm saying maybe people just like cheering for people who look like them. And it's cool if that's what you want to do. We only get in trouble with others when we pretend that isn't the case and then the truth comes out...

It doesn't matter. US is the only country that will have spectators wildy cheering against players (read Venus and Serena) from their own country. What happened to Serena at i.w. would never happen in any other country.

disco_rage
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:08 PM
It doesn't matter. US is the only country that will have spectators wildy cheering against players (read Venus and Serena) from their own country. What happened to Serena at i.w. would never happen in any other country.
Are you crazy?...................at the French Open Sandrine Testud (FRA) was being whipped by Hingis one year and someone threw an egg on her side of the court............. the French crowd get onto their players.

sammy01
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:19 PM
It doesn't matter. US is the only country that will have spectators wildy cheering against players (read Venus and Serena) from their own country. What happened to Serena at i.w. would never happen in any other country.

i guess you never saw mary pirece get booed at the french open or momo get treated like a complete choker and booed.

as for the topic, with me its players games i decide on, i think sharapovas game is ugly and boring as do i think the same for venus's, i like neither. off court personality is second, puts me off being a serena fan as i like her game, the same with jj.

chak is the right mix of nice tennis to watch (excluding most matches she plays now :help:) a bit bitchy on court but has the right mix of personality and respect off court.

as for jen vs venus, everyone loves a comeback, i mean who dosen't give seles her dues for coming back. i actualy think its a reason people like venus and serena more thses days also, their both older and have had to go through a lot these last few years, it will always gain empathy will people and people will admire them more for it.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:21 PM
Are you crazy?...................at the French Open Sandrine Testud (FRA) was being whipped by Hingis one year and someone threw an egg on her side of the court............. the French crowd get onto their players.

omg an egg how ever did she recover!?:rolleyes:

volta
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:22 PM
Remember that Jennifer was actually born in NEW YORK.... she was a New Yorker, so of course a New York crowd is gonna be heavily for her.

yeah but remember how they were supporting Mauresmo ALOT MORE then Vee at the 2002 USopen ? i'm not saying that it was because they were racist or something like that but back then it kinda looked like at times they would rather root for someone else rather then Vee :lol:

DA FOREHAND
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:23 PM
i guess you never saw mary piece get booed at the french open or momo get treated like a complete choker and booed.

as for the topic, with me its players games i decide on, i think sharapovas game is ugly and boring as do i think the same for venus's, i like neither. off court personality is second, puts me off being a serena fan as i like her game, the same with jj.

chak is the right mix of nice tennis to watch (excluding most matches she plays now :help:) a bit bitchy on court but has the right mix of personality and respect off court.

as for jen vs venus, everyone loves a comeback, i mean who dosen't give seles her dues for coming back. i actualy think its a reason people like venus and serena more thses days also, their both older and have had to go through a lot these last few years, it will always gain empathy will people and people will admire them more for it.
i have and it was nothing compared to what Serena went through. AND SHE WON!

meyerpl
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:41 PM
Just because they are not cheering for Venus or Serena does not mean the crowd is racist.
Wow.Of course not, and "the crowd" is not all of one mind either. But, when you have two Americans competing, one white and one black, and a predominately white crowd overwhelmingly supporting the white player, anyone who doesn't think there's a racial element present is kidding themselves. And any black person who sees that and thinks "it's cool" if people want to cheer for someone who "looks like them" is pretty open minded, if you ask me. And any black person who, after making that observation, decides to respond in a positive way, by attending matches and being an enthusiastic supporter, is pretty damn cool in my book.

I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if you put 200 black people and 200 white people into an arena to watch two boxers, one black and one white, neither of whom anybody had ever heard of, and you could get the truth from everyone present as to which boxer they wanted to see win, the majority of people would choose the boxer who "looks like them". Why? I don't know. Does that mean most of us are bigots and we hate each other? I don't think so. Is that something many of us are afraid to admit? Absolutely.

I think the moral thing to do is recognize prejudice in ourselves and challenge it, grab it by it's scrawny neck and try to choke the life out of it, rather than deny it's existence. Because if we deny it, we don't have to do anything about it. Recognizing it is uncomfortable, shameful even, but doing so motivates us to be better.

I don't have a problem with yet another thread about race if it is an attempt to start a constructive conversation, as this one clearly is.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:43 PM
Most of my fave players are latinos , I tend to cheer for them because Im latino too

We don´t have black people in my country (Chile), so I don´t feel identified with them . On the other hand Im deeply fond with german national team in Football as germans have helped to the development of Chile more than any other foreign community

Dave.
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:49 PM
hmm, firstly as others have said Jen is from New York. The US Open crowd always cheered for her over anyone. Like they do for Blake.

I know my support for players is based solely on their games & personalities. I couldn't care less if any of my faves were a different race/nationality to what they are. It's stupid to me to support a player for any other reason, and that includes looks too.

I am happy when players from GB do well, but I don't exactly go out of my way to catch their matches or anything like a fan would do.

Harvs
Feb 23rd, 2009, 09:49 PM
i suppose it is the same thing as nationalities... you would feel a need to cheer for them because you have a connection to them... its completely understandable and not racist at all...

misael
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:05 PM
It doesn't matter. US is the only country that will have spectators wildy cheering against players (read Venus and Serena) from their own country. What happened to Serena at i.w. would never happen in any other country.
That's not true, Mauresmo and Mary Pierce,over the years, have a hate/love relation with the French crowd.

Shawn
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:07 PM
i can't believe this thread. I love Venus and she is my number 1, but I was in NYC and I honestly thought they were cheering for the underdog. I was also at the US Open 1997 when Venus made her debut and the crowd was going wild. Everyone wanted her to win and it's simply because she was different, she was fresh and she was the UNDERDOG.

Shawn
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:11 PM
Also race should not be the reason why someone loves or dislikes a player. It should be their beauty, their game, their attitude, their style, but not race. We are all human beings for goodness sake. Nowadays in NYC, Venus gets the loudest applause and people are still ocmplaining. jeez!!!

Slutiana
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:16 PM
^Yeah, its dangerous to lump all the crowd together I mean, its usually just one or two people who will start booing and the other people might get caught up in the emotion of it too, i mean at wimbledon I watched Venus vs Anne live, I wanted to just be impartial as they were both playing eachother but I ended up jumping out my seat for every Anne winnner and groaning on every one of her errors or venus' winners, purely coz of the crowd even though Venus (along with Rena and Tati have been my no.1s and have been for years), I only really supported anne, she was never really a fave until 07.

Trust me, I bet most of the crowd dont come out to boo Serena at the US Open (although there will obviously be one or two who do) but it is so easy to get caught up in the notion of 2 people, then 10, then 200, then 3,000, then 15,000 people cheering one player and or booing another.... :shrug:

Melly Flew Us
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:20 PM
i support vee because she is an older sister like me and i support ree because she reminds me of my little sister; but they are not my favourites.

there is only player i will cheer for over vee and ree and she doesn't like them probably due to their colour but most likely because she is an insecure bitch.

but i will always support the sisters when she isn't playing - and that is because they are 'sistas'.

Shawn
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:20 PM
^Yeah, its dangerous to lump all the crowd together I mean, its usually just one or two people who will start booing and the other people might get caught up in the emotion of it too, i mean at wimbledon I watched Venus vs Anne live, I wanted to just be impartial as they were both playing eachother but I ended up jumping out my seat for every Anne winnner and groaning on every one of her errors or venus' winners, and Venus (along with Rena and Tati are my no.1s and have been for years, I only really supported anne, she was never really a fave until 07.

Trust me, I bet most of the crowd dont come out to boo Serena at the US Open (although there will obviously be one or two who do) but it is so easy to get caught up in the notion of 2 people, then 10, then 200, then 3,000, then 15,000 people cheering one player and or booing another.... :shrug:

there are more people who love the sisters than those who do not and everyone even from Jelena to Sharapova, gets booed. In fact, When Sharapova was playing Radwanska at the Open, I had to shut this heckler up who was saying nasty stuff about her because it was tasteless.

Bayo
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:27 PM
That's not true, Mauresmo and Mary Pierce,over the years, have a hate/love relation with the French crowd.

...When they played poorly. And their heckling was out of frustration. With Venus, I've seen the USO crowd root against her from "Play."

But I've also seen the USO crowd root against Roddick (see 2005 R1, Vs. Muller).

Unfortunately, the USO crowd is not traditionally very supportive of all of its players. Personally, I don't understand the underdog support. When underdogs beat favorites, you eventually end up with matches like the Kuznetsova/Chakvetadze semifinal. :tape:

Shawn
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:33 PM
...When they played poorly. And their heckling was out of frustration. With Venus, I've seen the USO crowd root against her from "Play."

But I've also seen the USO crowd root against Roddick (see 2005 R1, Vs. Muller).

Unfortunately, the USO crowd is not traditionally very supportive of all of its players. Personally, I don't understand the underdog support. When underdogs beat favorites, you eventually end up with matches like the Kuznetsova/Chakvetadze semifinal. :tape:

which US Open are you going to? My family have had season tickets since 1990 and while it's true that the American crowd are not as patriotic as the Europeans or the Australian crowds, they show massive support for their own. That's why any session involving an American is jam-packed and filled with excitement. Whenever they are introduced, the applause is usually thunderous.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:37 PM
yeah but remember how they were supporting Mauresmo ALOT MORE then Vee at the 2002 USopen ? i'm not saying that it was because they were racist or something like that but back then it kinda looked like at times they would rather root for someone else rather then Vee :lol:

Now that was some bs.

I was shocked watching that match. Seeing a French woman cheered heavily over an American woman in America in a tight three set match. I couldn't believe it.

OsloErik
Feb 24th, 2009, 12:51 AM
It was at that point where I thought - "oh o Venus has no support today" - Some booed, others screamed out while the rest were outraged the linesman hadn't called out. It was at that point where I also thought, I've got to start going to some big tennis tournaments so I can give my girls some support. I had no interest in calling anyone racist - waste of my energy. I actually got motivated & called a few fellas about doing our own version of Blake's cheering quad but for the sistahs. (But the bruthas just couldn't come up with the money :help: :lol:)

...

But all I'm doing is what I saw at that US Open. I didn't call those men & women racist. I, maybe naievely, thought they just wanted someone that looked like them to win.

When me & 3 of my boys finally had a chance to go to the 2004 YEC, we hooped & hollered for Serena liked nobody's business as if we were at Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium. So much so, that an older black couple sitting in front of us told us that we were embarrassing them. To which I responded - you must not have seen how Venus was treated at the 2001 semifinal in New York. She turned around & said nothing else to us the rest of the night.

Remember this thread is birthed out of the speech by attorney general Holder for Americans to have open/honest and constructive communication on race. Obviously, tennis has been considered a white racist sport for a long time. So why do we really cheer for who we cheer for? YOUR THOUGHTS?



I'm pretty sure that your entire post got shot to hell when you went from "I had no interest in calling anyone racist" to...well, basically implying that they cheered for Capriati out of racism.

There were numerous reasons people cheered for Capriati and against Venus at the US Open in 2001. Perhaps people don't remember it because it was a while ago and Venus has matured tremendously, but until roughly 2003, neither Williams sister got out from the very, very, very loud and genuinely obnoxious, rude, and hypocritical shadow of Richard Williams. He was loud and protective of them out of love, but it did them absolutely no favors and really has poisoned a lot of tennis fans from approving of the confidence of the Williams sisters. Not anyone's fault, really, but a fact.

Add to it that Capriati has a tremendous (TREMENDOUS) history of coming up just short at the US Open, dating back to when she was 13 or 14 or 15 or so, and Venus was clearly the favorite (defending champion, had won Wimbledon a month and a half earlier, was on a 14 match win streak (and 21-1 run) going into their semifinal, and had never lost to Capriati, of course the US crowd went with the American underdog against the American favorite.

...

As for your defense of cheering loudly during a tennis match and discomforting other ticket buyers...did you ever think that you were assuming the older black couple would agree that the New York crowd racist, as you implied the crowd was? Because as a European of African descent, I haven't seen much racism beyond what happened at Indian Wells, and the few times I've gone to the US Open have been struck by how the crowd cheers between points, but is awfully respectful mid-point. Compared to Australia, even, it's pretty tame.

Obviously? Really? Tennis desegregated before basketball and American football, right around the time Latin American soccer leagues integrated, three years after baseball, and so on. It's a sport that once required money to play, but since the 80's has been a haven for poorer Europeans to make a mark in sports.

I cheer for players because I like the way they play. I couldn't bring myself to cheer for a player as ugly to watch as Asha Rolle, and cringe when I think of the people who asked me what I thought of Scoville Jenkins at the US Open in 2005. But when Venus, Serena, or Tsonga are playing well, they are thrilling to watch.

Is there racism in tennis? Undoubtedly. Is that the only reason someone would be disinclined to cheer for Venus Williams in 2001? Certainly not. And considering the player she was up against (one of the easiest to get behind and cheer for in the past 20 years), I hardly think you are being fair or balanced in your interpretation.

But on another note, I'm very, very glad someone has started a thoughtful, not-name calling thread about race in tennis. And I'm also glad someone who finds anti-Williams cheering inherently racist is still willing to go to tournaments, and cheer and be a part of the modernizing of tennis fandom.

meyerpl
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:36 AM
I'm pretty sure that your entire post got shot to hell when you went from "I had no interest in calling anyone racist" to...well, basically implying that they cheered for Capriati out of racism.

I didn't interpret his post that way at all. I took him to mean that being motivated by race to cheer for one player over another is not necessarily "racist" whether you're black or white.

I think we've heard from a number of fans in this thread who have acknowledged that race plays a part in who they root for, however; as they get to know more about players, race becomes less of an issue. I think that can be said about people in general; as they get to know more about each other, race becomes less of an issue.

eugreene2
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:11 AM
Of course not, and "the crowd" is not all of one mind either. But, when you have two Americans competing, one white and one black, and a predominately white crowd overwhelmingly supporting the white player, anyone who doesn't think there's a racial element present is kidding themselves. And any black person who sees that and thinks "it's cool" if people want to cheer for someone who "looks like them" is pretty open minded, if you ask me. And any black person who, after making that observation, decides to respond in a positive way, by attending matches and being an enthusiastic supporter, is pretty damn cool in my book.

I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if you put 200 black people and 200 white people into an arena to watch two boxers, one black and one white, neither of whom anybody had ever heard of, and you could get the truth from everyone present as to which boxer they wanted to see win, the majority of people would choose the boxer who "looks like them". Why? I don't know. Does that mean most of us are bigots and we hate each other? I don't think so. Is that something many of us are afraid to admit? Absolutely.

I think the moral thing to do is recognize prejudice in ourselves and challenge it, grab it by it's scrawny neck and try to choke the life out of it, rather than deny it's existence. Because if we deny it, we don't have to do anything about it. Recognizing it is uncomfortable, shameful even, but doing so motivates us to be better.

I don't have a problem with yet another thread about race if it is an attempt to start a constructive conversation, as this one clearly is.

Very well said :worship:

2Black
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:29 AM
I'm pretty sure that your entire post got shot to hell when you went from "I had no interest in calling anyone racist" to...well, basically implying that they cheered for Capriati out of racism.

There were numerous reasons people cheered for Capriati and against Venus at the US Open in 2001. Perhaps people don't remember it because it was a while ago and Venus has matured tremendously, but until roughly 2003, neither Williams sister got out from the very, very, very loud and genuinely obnoxious, rude, and hypocritical shadow of Richard Williams. He was loud and protective of them out of love, but it did them absolutely no favors and really has poisoned a lot of tennis fans from approving of the confidence of the Williams sisters. Not anyone's fault, really, but a fact.

Add to it that Capriati has a tremendous (TREMENDOUS) history of coming up just short at the US Open, dating back to when she was 13 or 14 or 15 or so, and Venus was clearly the favorite (defending champion, had won Wimbledon a month and a half earlier, was on a 14 match win streak (and 21-1 run) going into their semifinal, and had never lost to Capriati, of course the US crowd went with the American underdog against the American favorite.

...

As for your defense of cheering loudly during a tennis match and discomforting other ticket buyers...did you ever think that you were assuming the older black couple would agree that the New York crowd racist, as you implied the crowd was? Because as a European of African descent, I haven't seen much racism beyond what happened at Indian Wells, and the few times I've gone to the US Open have been struck by how the crowd cheers between points, but is awfully respectful mid-point. Compared to Australia, even, it's pretty tame.

But on another note, I'm very, very glad someone has started a thoughtful, not-name calling thread about race in tennis. And I'm also glad someone who finds anti-Williams cheering inherently racist is still willing to go to tournaments, and cheer and be a part of the modernizing of tennis fandom.

Sorry you mis-interpreted my post ... what I was saying at that point in my story was ... alot of people would have looked at that situation; saw a black v white with a majority white crowd & screamed racist. To which I reply - waste of energy - and that if you choose to cheer for someone because they look like you, I'm ok with it.

Regarding the older black couple, that was another example in terms of allowing people to be themselves. At every appropriate chance we got (without offending Mauresmo in that match) we cheered loudly & boisterously for Serena but the black lady wanted us to act as if we were at Wimbledon (u know - clap softly & not move). It was clear her embarrassment was based on how the white attendees would perceive 3 black guys acting as if they were at a basketball game. All my response said was if others can cheer wildly for Capriati in New York, why can't we (3 black guys) do the same in Los Angeles.

On another note, I think this thread is going well - we can't understand each other unless communication takes place...

DimaDinosaur
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:35 AM
I suspect that one of the reasons I like Dementieva is that I find her extremely attractive, and the fact that I find a tall, blond woman attractive probably has something to do with being white, and growing up in a white-dominated society and being old enough that tall, blonde and white was pushed as a beauty ideal even harder than it is today. On the other hand, it isn't just that, as there are certainly other (one in particular) tall, blonde white players I could be fans of if that was my sole criteria. I like her game, her personality, her brains, there's a kind of anti-divaness about Elena that was especially refreshing when she came along in 99-00.

I agree that a lot of us wold rather not talk about issues of race. A lot of whites would like to pretend the problem is solved when it isn't. There are times when I feel like perceived prejudice or racism by various groups is actually the result of ignorance or laziness (we had a looong discussion about some ads in this regard, not sure where that thread went). It's a very difficult issue to deal with, especially for those of us who grew with feet in both worlds--we remember and experienced some of the worst of the bad old days, but we have the dream of how it should be. Those two can be very hard to reconcile. I believe Volcana had a very good post on this at one point.

Sometimes, I think whites need to stop and count to 10 before they say "race card." And blacks (and other minorities) should count to 10 before they say "racist." Those are both very poisonous terms and polarize discussions before they can even begin. Just look at some of the discussions around here and see how quickly what could be chances to learn and educate each other about why we feel the way we do quickly devolve into "Well you hate blacks/whites." "Oh yeah? Well you hate whites/blacks" kindergarten tantrums.

On the other hand, some of the most interesting, informative discussions I've had on a number of topics and experiences have been with members of this board who come from different backgrounds than I do. So I know it can be done.

It's also interesting to see how much less of an issue it is for my kids, both of whom go to inner city schools that are majority minority. I notice that. They really don't.



You do make some sense. I actually noticed that many posters on this board do like dementieva just simply because she is white and blonde just like sharapova.

Svetlana.
Feb 24th, 2009, 03:22 AM
When me & 3 of my boys finally had a chance to go to the 2004 YEC, we hooped & hollered for Serena liked nobody's business as if we were at Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium. So much so, that an older black couple sitting in front of us told us that we were embarrassing them. To which I responded - you must not have seen how Venus was treated at the 2001 semifinal in New York. She turned around & said nothing else to us the rest of the night.

There is nothing wrong when someone cheers for athletes that look like them or have the same nationality. I would be very surprised if someone would not feel that way.

but let me ask you... if it was the other way around and the stadium would be full of black spectators not white. How would you react if three white guys would loudly support the white tennis player?

Dawn Marie
Feb 24th, 2009, 03:40 AM
I remember that match. I have it on tape. The crowds and NOT just the NY crowds would jeer for Venus and Serena and cheer for their white counterpart. A lot of times it was racially motivated. #1 being black and #2 being a women playing at a high level was vertially unheard of. I don't have the energy to go back and write about every match that the crowds were going nuts in.

All i know is that, Venus and Serena have shut some of the bitches up with their raquets. I also know that Venus and Serena have gotten more love outside of America then in their own country.
Anyone remember that match where the racist man was calling Serena names while she was beating Kim Clijsters? He was removed from the match? Some people are just ignorant and cowardly.
P.S. I love the fact that Venus owns Capriati. I love that match in NY. Venus had a bad cold. She was coughing like crazy. She went down 4/1. The crowd was going nuts. Then Venus started serving better and held serve. Breaking Jennifer was always easy fro Venus. In fact that first game Venus took it to deuce and ads many times before Jen held.
I remember Venus destroying the crowds hearts that day. I remember when Venus was about to serve and Jen was going nuts on the court. Venus gave Jen this look,like "girl what are you bitching about now"? "I'm about to kick your ass and send you packing again". John Mc said, "That was a stare down right there". Jen missed a return right after the staredown and then Mac said. "And Capriati was the one that blinked". HAHAHA classic.

RFSTB
Feb 24th, 2009, 04:38 AM
People pay wayyyy too much attention to race. Why can't we just support the athletes for what they put out on the field? My favorite athletes are the ones who give their all everytime they step on to the playing field, those great competitors who never give up, and who also treat their opponents and fans with respect. I really could care less if they are black, white, yellow, brown, or whatever else.

Regardless of what people say about Venus and Serena, I think they have always conducted themselves with exemplary manners wherever they compete, and they are amazing competitors, which is why they're my all time favorites, along with Sharapova.

Direwolf
Feb 24th, 2009, 04:45 AM
When me & 3 of my boys finally had a chance to go to the 2004 YEC, we hooped & hollered for Serena liked nobody's business as if we were at Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium. So much so, that an older black couple sitting in front of us told us that we were embarrassing them. To which I responded - you must not have seen how Venus was treated at the 2001 semifinal in New York. She turned around & said nothing else to us the rest of the night.



so what you and your friends try to do is
cry louder than those 98% of the peeps
in that stadium that time???

aggressiveness attracts criticism...
you can cheer yes..
jeer noh...
shout goo Serena yes
continously cheer
for Serena as if it was a soccer match
no!!

our
courts are smaller..

and who said that revenge is sweet??
(note:stupid question next)
does your race feel happier?
since the people in IW booed Serena...
will you do the same??
hopefully..and i think you wont..

let a tennis match be a tennis match..
limit our excitement with cheers
and applause
and let our players do the talking...

kiwifan
Feb 24th, 2009, 05:18 AM
There is nothing wrong when someone cheers for athletes that look like them or have the same nationality. I would be very surprised if someone would not feel that way.

but let me ask you... if it was the other way around and the stadium would be full of black spectators not white. How would you react if three white guys would loudly support the white tennis player?

You would expect it.

Happens all the time in gyms all over the country with a little sport we call Basketball here in the USA.

;)

Also certain NFL players who happen to be white and play either cornerback or wide reciever tend to develop fan bases much larger than their stats often warrent...Phil McConkey of the Giants sucked other than his ability to take a hit over the middle and he had a hit biography. :rolleyes:

A high school classmate of mine was a white wide reciever in the NFL, the guy was cocky, had a big mouth and while part of my gang was generally considered a jerk by the non popular kids...you never heard a bad word about him from NFL announcers - just what a hard worker with great hands he was over his career - yet if you paid attention to his play you could see him out there talking shit to players and being the same dude I knew and tolerated. :angel:

In fact he'd never been any more than a second or third reciever on any of his teams and yet by the end of his career the Great John Madden even wondered aloud why my buddy had never gone to the Pro Bowl. :lol: :eek: :lol:

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 24th, 2009, 08:08 AM
Of course not, and "the crowd" is not all of one mind either. But, when you have two Americans competing, one white and one black, and a predominately white crowd overwhelmingly supporting the white player, anyone who doesn't think there's a racial element present is kidding themselves. And any black person who sees that and thinks "it's cool" if people want to cheer for someone who "looks like them" is pretty open minded, if you ask me. And any black person who, after making that observation, decides to respond in a positive way, by attending matches and being an enthusiastic supporter, is pretty damn cool in my book.

I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if you put 200 black people and 200 white people into an arena to watch two boxers, one black and one white, neither of whom anybody had ever heard of, and you could get the truth from everyone present as to which boxer they wanted to see win, the majority of people would choose the boxer who "looks like them". Why? I don't know. Does that mean most of us are bigots and we hate each other? I don't think so. Is that something many of us are afraid to admit? Absolutely.

I think the moral thing to do is recognize prejudice in ourselves and challenge it, grab it by it's scrawny neck and try to choke the life out of it, rather than deny it's existence. Because if we deny it, we don't have to do anything about it. Recognizing it is uncomfortable, shameful even, but doing so motivates us to be better.

I don't have a problem with yet another thread about race if it is an attempt to start a constructive conversation, as this one clearly is.

This is a great post, and it begs (or highlights) another- broader- issue.

IDENTITY POLITICS.

In the hopefully defunct, heretofore "Rovian" period of American politics "Identity Politics" rose to new heights, preying upon that very dynamic that Myerpl surmises in the boxing example. I guess what I'm getting at is the inherent problem with "Identity Cheering" (for lack of a better term). I think it's important to have a reason to cheer for someone that goes beyond "they look like me." Otherwise, we only exacerbate the racial divide. (non-sequitur Alert!! This is why the Obama election was so signicant) That's not to say that a person's identity can't lead to a reason to cheer for them that goes beyond their appearance.

But, I think it's important for a person to know WHY they're cheering for whomever they're cheering. Or, maybe more important, why they're NOT cheering for whomever they're not cheering. :shrug: Maybe the reasons are completely legitimate/innocent/benign/understandable/well-reasoned/non-bigoted, but a little introspection goes a long way sometimes.

DeLorean
Feb 24th, 2009, 09:00 AM
the concept of race is a joke. I read a great book called War of the World by Niall Ferguson(a great read) which looked at how race caused so many conflicts in the 20th century. it was some crack pot who invented the concept of race to group humans and labled flaws that each race has, and even ranked them. This was hundreds of years ago but still holds true for many today. Its very hard to shake ideas installed in society for so long. the day that everyone can see we are all the same regardless of how we look or live or even who we worship will be truly amazing.

Bijoux0021
Feb 24th, 2009, 09:06 AM
Of course not, and "the crowd" is not all of one mind either. But, when you have two Americans competing, one white and one black, and a predominately white crowd overwhelmingly supporting the white player, anyone who doesn't think there's a racial element present is kidding themselves. And any black person who sees that and thinks "it's cool" if people want to cheer for someone who "looks like them" is pretty open minded, if you ask me. And any black person who, after making that observation, decides to respond in a positive way, by attending matches and being an enthusiastic supporter, is pretty damn cool in my book.

I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if you put 200 black people and 200 white people into an arena to watch two boxers, one black and one white, neither of whom anybody had ever heard of, and you could get the truth from everyone present as to which boxer they wanted to see win, the majority of people would choose the boxer who "looks like them". Why? I don't know. Does that mean most of us are bigots and we hate each other? I don't think so. Is that something many of us are afraid to admit? Absolutely.

I think the moral thing to do is recognize prejudice in ourselves and challenge it, grab it by it's scrawny neck and try to choke the life out of it, rather than deny it's existence. Because if we deny it, we don't have to do anything about it. Recognizing it is uncomfortable, shameful even, but doing so motivates us to be better.

I don't have a problem with yet another thread about race if it is an attempt to start a constructive conversation, as this one clearly is.
:worship::worship::worship:

Great Post!

2Black
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:55 PM
There is nothing wrong when someone cheers for athletes that look like them or have the same nationality. I would be very surprised if someone would not feel that way.

but let me ask you... if it was the other way around and the stadium would be full of black spectators not white. How would you react if three white guys would loudly support the white tennis player?

I've already answered this earlier ... I said, that's cool. The point I'm making in this thread is that people cheer alot of times for players based on what they look like & are too coward to say it.


so what you and your friends try to do is
cry louder than those 98% of the peeps
in that stadium that time???

aggressiveness attracts criticism...
you can cheer yes..
jeer noh...
shout goo Serena yes
continously cheer
for Serena as if it was a soccer match
no!!

our
courts are smaller..

and who said that revenge is sweet??
(note:stupid question next)
does your race feel happier?
since the people in IW booed Serena...
will you do the same??
hopefully..and i think you wont..

let a tennis match be a tennis match..
limit our excitement with cheers
and applause
and let our players do the talking...

please read my post at the beginning of page 4. I think I explained it quite well ... Your post is all over the place & creative. You are making up stuff that I never said. As long as we are not disturbing the other players serve, etc., we are fine. I used Duke's stadium because we were loud & just because it's tennis, you can't tell people how to SUPPORT their player. It's a sport NOT basket weaving.

I'll give you another example ... In Tim Henman's last match in NY against Tsonga, virtually the whole crowd was cheering for Tim while my friends & I were going for Tsonga. People would look at us strange when we hooped & hollered when Tsonga was kickin dat azz ... as if to say, you idiots can't cheer for Jo. Don't you understand Tim is retiring. And we responded with chants of Let's go Tsonga!!!
Why some people think that you can tell people who & how to cheer is lost of mind!

DA FOREHAND
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:23 PM
That's not true, Mauresmo and Mary Pierce,over the years, have a hate/love relation with the French crowd.

again NEVER EVER anything like what Serena endured at i.w. in 2001.

Mary Pierce is only French when she wins. :rolleyes:

misael
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:40 PM
...When they played poorly. And their heckling was out of frustration. With Venus, I've seen the USO crowd root against her from "Play."

But I've also seen the USO crowd root against Roddick (see 2005 R1, Vs. Muller).

Unfortunately, the USO crowd is not traditionally very supportive of all of its players. Personally, I don't understand the underdog support. When underdogs beat favorites, you eventually end up with matches like the Kuznetsova/Chakvetadze semifinal. :tape: But it's always been the same, When Martina Navrotilova, Monica Seles, Steffi Graf, were beating everyone, the crowd was mostly cheering for the other player. Also when, let's say Venus , is playing a lower seeded player and the score is 6-2 4-1, and the crowd starts cheering for the underdog, they just want to see more tennis, I think most tennis fans just wants to see competitve matches.( unless it their favorites, tyhen we want a quick match)

2Black
Feb 26th, 2009, 06:52 PM
That Zina thread is more proof why the AG was right ... people can't have intelligent, constructive communication on race. They simply go to 1 extreme - there is no racism or they shout racists from the loudest mountain. COWARDS!!!

DA FOREHAND
Feb 26th, 2009, 10:30 PM
I think there was an old thread titled "ask black people anything" perhaps it should be revived

miffedmax
Feb 27th, 2009, 01:34 AM
The worst staredowns I ever got were at the Gold Cup in Houston in 2007. My sons and I were surrounded by Hispanics and we were rooting like crazy for Guadaloupe, solely because they were such a massive underdog.

I think by the second half most people had figured out we were rooting for the underdogs, or spotted that there were actually a few white Guadaloupe fans there and thought maybe we were from there, I don't know. I was getting kind of nervous, but my older son would NOT shut up. He's a goalkeeper, and you know how they are.

In The Zone
Feb 27th, 2009, 01:36 AM
Reading the first page, posters left out an important point:
Capriati is from New York. That's why the crowd was cheering for her. When Capriati was around, the crowds didn't put the Sisters at the top.

If you look at the crowds now, the USO love the Sisters.

mboyle
Feb 27th, 2009, 01:39 AM
we hooped & hollered for Serena liked nobody's business as if we were at Duke's Cameron Indoor Stadium.

GOOOO DEVILS GO!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for reppin us bro!

Oh yeah on topic...I actually feel really comfortable around African Americans. I just got back from an African-American Christian group on campus actually, and it was the best campus ministry I've been to so far.

miffedmax
Feb 27th, 2009, 01:56 AM
I think there was an old thread titled "ask black people anything" perhaps it should be revived

Or bring back Paul Mooney as Negrodamus.

darrinbaker00
Feb 27th, 2009, 02:03 AM
Reading the first page, posters left out an important point:
Capriati is from New York. That's why the crowd was cheering for her. When Capriati was around, the crowds didn't put the Sisters at the top.

If you look at the crowds now, the USO love the Sisters.
That's because they're all we've got. Andy Roddick and James Blake were, are, and always will be Roger Federer's b****es.

Jakeev
Feb 27th, 2009, 09:47 AM
:haha: who are u? A clone of Morissey? Another thread on race...

At least this poster has a degree of sensitivity and objectivity. Morrissey clearly has none of that in most of his posts.......

Golovinjured.
Feb 27th, 2009, 10:36 AM
I always cheer for black players. Period.

It's harder for them in a sport that they are the extreme minority and doesn't have a tradition of being all that welcoming toward them.

That said, they are not ALL my faves. I have plenty of white faves as well, so.... But, being the "lonely only" in almost EVERYTHING I've ever truly desired to do has given me a fair bit of empathy. :shrug:

I can't agree with this, sorry. The only instance where I can accept someone 'favouring' or 'preferring' one race over another is physical attraction. I myself, am attracted to very tanned skin, just as I prefer blondes to brunettes and blue eyes to brown, it's something you can't help. I cannot understand cheering for a tennis player purely because of race, because to me that is racist. As any white person who would cheer for any white player versing a black player is a racist, any black person who cheers for a player ONLY because they are black, is equally racist.

Also, I can't understand how it is harder for them, them being black tennis players. What stands in their way? As far as I'm aware, no black player is banned from playing any tournament, they aren't given any less reward, nor is any promising black junior given less help than any promising white junior. I'm not disputing that racism does not/did not ever exist in tennis. It did, and still does. But, in today's game, compare this. Who is it harder for, black players or Israeli players. Shahar Peer's predicament has brought to light a new side to the argument of how hard things actually are. She, and other Israeli's are trying to make it in a sport which is becoming increasingly a Middle Eastern staple. Personally, I believe black players have no barriers left to break down in tennis, and are as likely to succeed as white players. I'm not denying that THERE ARE small minded people out there who will vilify black players, jeer them, smear them, but some things you will not change unfortunately.

serenus_2k8
Feb 27th, 2009, 10:44 AM
I can't agree with this, sorry. The only instance where I can accept someone 'favouring' or 'preferring' one race over another is physical attraction. I myself, am attracted to very tanned skin, just as I prefer blondes to brunettes and blue eyes to brown, it's something you can't help. I cannot understand cheering for a tennis player purely because of race, because to me that is racist. As any white person who would cheer for any white player versing a black player is a racist, any black person who cheers for a player ONLY because they are black, is equally racist.

Also, I can't understand how it is harder for them, them being black tennis players. What stands in their way? As far as I'm aware, no black player is banned from playing any tournament, they aren't given any less reward, nor is any promising black junior given less help than any promising white junior. I'm not disputing that racism does not/did not ever exist in tennis. It did, and still does. But, in today's game, compare this. Who is it harder for, black players or Israeli players. Shahar Peer's predicament has brought to light a new side to the argument of how hard things actually are. She, and other Israeli's are trying to make it in a sport which is becoming increasingly a Middle Eastern staple. Personally, I believe black players have no barriers left to break down in tennis, and are as likely to succeed as white players. I'm not denying that THERE ARE small minded people out there who will vilify black players, jeer them, smear them, but some things you will not change unfortunately.

I agree, racism works both ways and the poster clearly seems to believe a black athlete deserves to beat a white athlete regardless, which is obviously very racist. If the tournament organiser of AO, for eg, had said during the ceremony that he was dissapointed that Serena had won because he wanted to see a fellow white person holding the trophy, I would be absolutely appauled and I think the same thing applies at any level.

I also think saying that is harder for black players isnt true either. I think many players have much bigger problems that are totally seperate from their ethnicity, such as Tatiana and Sarah Gronert for example. I found the original post appauling, sorry.