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View Full Version : How do you qualify who the best players on grass are?


shap_half
Feb 22nd, 2009, 07:36 PM
With the grass season being the shortest of them all, how does one rank the best grass court players of this generation? Obviously Venus and Serena occupy the top two spots, but how do you iron out the rest? After Venus and Serena things get a bit murky because no one else has more than 1 Wimbledon title and even fewer have more than 1 final (I believe only Martina, Lindsay and Justine has). Obviously this is a discussion of who is best, not who is greatest. But with only a number of tournaments to showcase talents most top players rarely even play more than just Wimbledon. Does winning the big W make you better than someone who didn't? Does reaching the final make you better than someone who didn't? ie is Bartoli better on grass thn Clijsters or Capriati? Does winning a tournament on the surface make you better than someone who has never? Does getting a win over a big name on the surface mean anything? Does your WL record on the surface make a difference?

That said what would your grass court ranking look like?

Demska
Feb 22nd, 2009, 07:44 PM
Who has won the most Wimbledon titles.

AcesHigh
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:12 PM
In terms of entire careers of those players who have been active in the last 10 years

1. Venus


2. Serena
3. Davenport
4. Mauresmo
5. Henin
6. Maria Sharapova
7. Martina Hingis

the rest are pretty irrelevant IMHO

Dodoboy.
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:18 PM
I wish we had a longer grass season, i mean the players that are good on clay are rewarded throughout the year :sad:

Vlover
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:40 PM
Does winning the big W make you better than someone who didn't? Does reaching the final make you better than someone who didn't? ie is Bartoli better on grass thn Clijsters or Capriati? Does winning a tournament on the surface make you better than someone who has never? Does getting a win over a big name on the surface mean anything? Does your WL record on the surface make a difference?
That said what would your grass court ranking look like?
More often than not, in sportsresults matter more than feelings and opinions. You don't win seven matches purely by luck without the skills to do so, especially on grass. The obvious top 2 are Venus and Serena....
Lindsay (the reason Lindsay has 1 title is due mainly to Venus)
Moresmo (1 title due mainly to Serena)
Maria ( 1 title due to Venus mainly)
Justine (0 title due to those above who are better on grass
Hingis even though she has 1 title I think this was before the game of the others were fully developed in '97.
Of the remainder they would have to consistently get to the qrts or better for them to be considered. Their main problem is just that they usually meet the better players in the latter rounds.

hingis-seles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:49 PM
I find it surprising that Hingis is being written off so easily. She won the title in 1997, as well as s'Hertogenbosch in 2000. She reached the SF in 1998 and QF in 2000. People forget that in 2000, the top half of the draw was Venus, Serena and Martina with the bottom half consisting of Seles, Davenport and Dokic. If Hingis had gotten Davenport's draws in 2000 at Wimbledon and US Open, she would've been the losing finalist there instead. It's just how the draws played out - I don't think 2000 is necessarily a great indicator of ability. I'd much rather use Davenport's 2005 run to underline her grass court superiority complimented by her 1999 championship.

Edinboro
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:14 PM
Ive never liked grass tennis. Its my least favorite surface and I think the most boring. Of course, I can understand why others like it. I just dont.

TheBoiledEgg
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:16 PM
I wish we had a longer grass season, i mean the players that are good on clay are rewarded throughout the year :sad:

wrong
the players who are good on hard are rewarded 80% of the yr
Clay is no where near as much as hard courts

Edinboro
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:19 PM
What is really that hard about clay courts? Are the points really that much longer? I need to pay more attention to that during this clay court season.

serenus_2k8
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:20 PM
Clay still has a lot more points up for grabs than grass especially this year but it makes sense I guess since clay courts are more easy to manage than grass, but grass should have at least a Premier or higher as well as Wimb I think.

Dave.
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:23 PM
I think there's no question that, in order, V/S/Davenport are the top 3.

Then it's pretty close between Mauresmo, Sharapova, Hingis and Henin.

Although not winning it, Henin reached the most (5) semifinals, and the most (2) finals. AND she is the only one to win Eastbourne, which she did twice and she won s'Hertogenbosch and reached another final for a total of 3 grasscourt titles/6 finals.

Mauresmo won it once, reached 4 semis and Eastbourne final.
Sharapova won it once, reached 3 semis and 2 Birminghams + another final + 2 semis.
Hingis won it once, reached 2 semis & 1 quarter, won s'Hertogenbosch.

The fact that Mauresmo & Sharapova won it and backed it up puts them ahead of Henin IMO, but Henin trumps Hingis, despite not winning it, she still has a better record at Wimbledon.

so..

4. Mauresmo
5. Sharapova
6. Henin
7. Hingis
8. Capriati (2 semis, 5 quarters, win over MN)
9. Clijsters (2 semis, 3 quarters, Eastbourne/s'Hertogenbosch titles)
10. Bartoli (Wimbledon final, 2 Eastbourne semis + Birmingham semi)
11. Dokic (Wimbledon semi + quarter, Birmingham title)



More often than not, in sportsresults matter more than feelings and opinions. You don't win seven matches purely by luck without the skills to do so, especially on grass. The obvious top 2 are Venus and Serena....
Lindsay (the reason Lindsay has 1 title is due mainly to Venus)
Moresmo (1 title due mainly to Serena)
Maria ( 1 title due to Venus mainly)
Justine (0 title due to those above who are better on grass
Hingis even though she has 1 title I think this was before the game of the others were fully developed in '97.
Of the remainder they would have to consistently get to the qrts or better for them to be considered. Their main problem is just that they usually meet the better players in the latter rounds.

I think a win over Novotna on grass is worth more than one over Mauresmo/Sharapova/Henin. I think we need to give Hingis credit for her Wimbledon title and grasscourt skill.

Slutiana
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:28 PM
:sad: Tati is so amaze on grass, its a shame shes always injured at wimbledon. :tape:

Europe rocks
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:37 PM
wrong
the players who are good on hard are rewarded 80% of the yr
Clay is no where near as much as hard courts

I think it's more a reference to the lower ranked girls in the top 100 who can play the International events on clay and then mix them up with the larger ITF events on clay, playing very little on hard or grass, whereas if you're prefer playing on grass, you've only got June where you can pick up some decent points on grass and then you're off playing on hard or clay for the rest of the season

tennisbum79
Feb 23rd, 2009, 02:56 AM
I wish we had a longer grass season, i mean the players that are good on clay are rewarded throughout the year :sad:
That is a good point.
So many clay tournament before RG, and just one before Wimbledon.

tennisbum79
Feb 23rd, 2009, 03:04 AM
wrong
the players who are good on hard are rewarded 80% of the yr
Clay is no where near as much as hard courts

80%, how did you come up with this number?
So the AO, RG and Wimby only have to share 20%?

Because I do not consider AO surface the same as USO hard court.

spartanfan
Feb 23rd, 2009, 03:42 AM
To me its who ever wins the most Wimbledon titles and makes the most finals. And if we're talking ACTIVE players its: Venus, Serena.......Mauresmo, Sharapova.......everyone else. The smaller build up tournaments are pretty meaningless to me. Hell, Venus and Serena have all their Wimbledon titles without a grass court warmup. In fact I think between Venus and Serena they have only played once or twice any warmup grass court tournaments and that was years before they started winning Wimbledon.

Volcana
Feb 23rd, 2009, 04:33 AM
If you want to know who the best grass court players are, you have to look beyond Wimbledon. Well, five Wimbledons, okay you're #1.
But Birmingham and Eastbourne and 's-Hertogenbosch do get played every year, and many players do play one of the three. Jankovic won Birmingham once. Kuznetsova won Eastbourne. Mauresmo and SHarapova both have one Wimbledon title, but Sharapova has also won Birmingham twice. Which would tend to indicate that she's the superior grass court player.

OsloErik
Feb 23rd, 2009, 05:05 AM
It goes predominantly off of Wimbledon, but the smaller events factor in as well. Having numerous deep runs at Wimbledon (SF, QF, R16) and a title on grass is a bigger deal than a fluke run at Wimbledon a la Lucic or Stevenson.

However, I think Bartoli qualifies as a bigger grass talent than a lot because she plays top 20 most of the time and mid-top 10 on grass. I'd put her ahead of Ivanovic and Kuznetsova, but I'd put Kuznetsova, Ivanovic, and Dokic right about even. Of course, there's also the age factor. I don't Davenport or Hingis can figure into this discussion, really, as they are both retired and haven't figured into the grass discussion since 2005, or even 2000 for Hingis.

adner
Feb 23rd, 2009, 06:38 AM
If you want to know who the best grass court players are, you have to look beyond Wimbledon. Well, five Wimbledons, okay you're #1.
But Birmingham and Eastbourne and 's-Hertogenbosch do get played every year, and many players do play one of the three. Jankovic won Birmingham once. Kuznetsova won Eastbourne. Mauresmo and SHarapova both have one Wimbledon title, but Sharapova has also won Birmingham twice. Which would tend to indicate that she's the superior grass court player.

Radwanska won Eastbourne too :hearts:

Serena's Hubby
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:08 AM
Yeah I def agree that there neeeds to be more Grass tournaments before Wimbledon, I really like grass, and I think that would be better for tennis, its barely played on and I just think it produces a lot of great matches..with that said its just like any other surface who ever wins on it the most is how I rank and it would be in my opinion

Venus
Serena
Davenport
Maria
Mauresmo
Myskina
Justine
Clijsters
Capriati
Hingis

for the last 10 years..but for active players


Venus
Serena
Davenport
Maria
Mauresmo
Svetlana
Elena
Jankovic
Zvonereva

for current players

Optima
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:18 AM
Jelena won Birmingham in 2007 (Sharapova in the final), got to the final of Birmingham in 2005, beat Venus at Wimbledon and got to the final at Hertogenbosch. She's underrated on grass.

Mightymirza
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:19 AM
Myskina on Grass over Justine :tape: :spit:

Current player with current form:

Vee
Ree




Pova
Momo(wud be closer to WSs if shes on her game)
Demented
?
?
?
?

pollison
Feb 23rd, 2009, 07:51 AM
I think there's no question that, in order, V/S/Davenport are the top 3.

Then it's pretty close between Mauresmo, Sharapova, Hingis and Henin.

Although not winning it, Henin reached the most (5) semifinals, and the most (2) finals. AND she is the only one to win Eastbourne, which she did twice and she won s'Hertogenbosch and reached another final for a total of 3 grasscourt titles/6 finals.

Mauresmo won it once, reached 4 semis and Eastbourne final.
Sharapova won it once, reached 3 semis and 2 Birminghams + another final + 2 semis.
Hingis won it once, reached 2 semis & 1 quarter, won s'Hertogenbosch.

The fact that Mauresmo & Sharapova won it and backed it up puts them ahead of Henin IMO, but Henin trumps Hingis, despite not winning it, she still has a better record at Wimbledon.

so..

4. Mauresmo
5. Sharapova
6. Henin
7. Hingis
8. Capriati (2 semis, 5 quarters, win over MN)
9. Clijsters (2 semis, 3 quarters, Eastbourne/s'Hertogenbosch titles)
10. Bartoli (Wimbledon final, 2 Eastbourne semis + Birmingham semi)
11. Dokic (Wimbledon semi + quarter, Birmingham title)





I think a win over Novotna on grass is worth more than one over Mauresmo/Sharapova/Henin. I think we need to give Hingis credit for her Wimbledon title and grasscourt skill.


agree with it completely...except henin possibly could be higher than sharpaova...unfourtunately those two never played at wimby.

THERE DEFINITELY SHOULD BE ATLEAST A MONTH OF GRASS WITH A BIG TOURNAMENT ON GRASS AS WELL AS WIMBY

bandabou
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:14 AM
Venus obviously queen of wimbledon, queen of grass..Serena with two titles and 2 other finals, obvious no.2..after that..

TennisViewer531
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:40 AM
Williams sisters definitely rule Wimbledon, not just in singles but doubles too. I read SI columnist Jon Wertheim a month ago and he said that if the Williams sisters are entered in the doubles event, everyone else are just playing for the runner-up trophy. That's true of course!

:)

spartanfan
Feb 23rd, 2009, 04:06 PM
Yeah I def agree that there neeeds to be more Grass tournaments before Wimbledon, I really like grass, and I think that would be better for tennis, its barely played on and I just think it produces a lot of great matches..with that said its just like any other surface who ever wins on it the most is how I rank and it would be in my opinion

Venus
Serena
Davenport
Maria
Mauresmo
Myskina
Justine
Clijsters
Capriati
Hingis

for the last 10 years..but for active players


Venus
Serena
Davenport
Maria
Mauresmo
Svetlana
Elena
Jankovic
Zvonereva

for current players
Only problem with your ranking is that Davenport is no longer an active player! I seriously doubt that we will see Lindsay play competitive tennis again. Her full time job now is being a mom!

StephenUK
Feb 23rd, 2009, 06:09 PM
Let's leave out retired players Henin, Davenport, Myskina et al and look at who's around now:

1 Venus
2 Serena
3 Mauresmo
4 Sharapova

These are the only current players who have won Wimbledon.

5 Bartoli (ex-finalist)
6 Kuznetsova (QF 3 times, Eastbourne winner)
7 A Radwanska (QF, Eastbourne winner)
8 Dementieva, Dokic (SF, QF)
10 Petrova (QF twice, Eastbourne finalist)
11 Ivanovic, Zheng(SF once)
13 Vaidisova (QF twice)

Other players worth a mention: Tanasugarn, Krajicek, Sugiyama, Na Li, Bremond. Golovin, Zvonareva and Jankovic have done well at B'ham but never got beyond the last 16 at Wimbledon.