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bobbynorwich
Feb 22nd, 2009, 12:51 PM
Based on excerpt from the GULF NEWS below, Dubai Women's Tournament has not yet decided whether to accept the WTA contract conditions for continuing the tournament and may appeal. The article does not mention the other new contract terms (wild card for Peer next year, donation of $248K from the $300K fine to the charity of Peer's choice, $2M performance bond by July, and 8 week deadline to approve Israeli players' visas) so it's not clear if those are being considered for appeal also.

It is also not clear to which entity Dubai would appeal, presumably a WTA arbitration board. Does anybody know?

Gulf News
WTA lobbed a $300,000 fine on the organisers of the Dubai tournament.

By Leslie Wilson Jr, Sports Editor and Abbas Al Lawati, Staff Reporter
Published: February 21, 2009, 23:06

Dubai studies response to WTA penalty

DUBAI: Organisers of the Dubai Duty Free Open Championships will decide in the next few days on whether to appeal a $300,000 fine by the governing body of women's tennis (WTA), officials said on Saturday.

The fine came after Israeli tennis player Shahar Peer was barred from taking part in the tournament Ė which Venus Williams won last night - because she was not issued a visa for the UAE.

"There is an appeal situation if we want to use it, in the WTA rule book, but we have not gone into detail on it," Colm McLoughlin, managing director of tournament owners and organisers Dubai Duty Free, told reporters on Saturday. "I recognise the WTA have an issue with their rules. We are looking at it [the fine] and will respond in a few days."

raffles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:12 PM
Well if they don't want to agree, no one is forcing then. They can give do without the tournament. Simple really.

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:14 PM
You forgot to place the url (link) for this article. No discussion on my part is possible without it. The poll is strange. Why would you ask tennis forum users what Dubai would do?

Hurley
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:16 PM
You forgot to place the url (link) for this article. No discussion on my part is possible without it.

Please, for the love of God, don't post the link.

Apoleb
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:19 PM
Couldn't you put that in the main thread?

Troll.

bobbynorwich
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:22 PM
You forgot to place the url (link) for this article. No discussion on my part is possible without it. The poll is strange. Why would you ask tennis forum users what Dubai would do?

Sorry, here's the url. http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth/dubaitennis09/sub_story/10288407.html.

Poll is posters' opinions of what Dubai is likely to do, not what it should do.
.:unsure:

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:53 PM
The article:


Dubai studies response to WTA penalty
By Leslie Wilson Jr, Sports Editor and Abbas Al Lawati, Staff Reporter
Published: February 21, 2009, 23:06


Dubai: Organisers of the Dubai Duty Free Open Championships will decide in the next few days on whether to appeal a $300,000 fine by the governing body of women's tennis (WTA), officials said on Saturday.

The fine came after Israeli tennis player Shahar Peer was barred from taking part in the tournament Ė which Venus Williams won last night - because she was not issued a visa for the UAE.

"There is an appeal situation if we want to use it, in the WTA rule book, but we have not gone into detail on it," Colm McLoughlin, managing director of tournament owners and organisers Dubai Duty Free, told reporters on Saturday. "I recognise the WTA have an issue with their rules. We are looking at it [the fine] and will respond in a few days."

Tournament director Salah Tahlak denied that any errors of judgement had been made, as claimed by a section of the players and the media. Commenting on his statement on Tuesday that Peer's visa had been denied for security reasons, he said: "Whatever reason was given last week, we had our reasons. Maybe then it was still fresh what happened in Gaza and we made that very clear in the statement."

He also said that the organisers and the authorities had done their best under the circumstances. "It is not our responsibility to issue a visa. It is other departments' responsibility. They also did their best. We should not mix politics with sport. We are purely sport. We have done a lot for tennis in the region, especially in the UAE," Tahlak told reporters.

McLoughlin also echoed Tahlak's concerns. "Neither Dubai Duty Free nor the tournament issues visas. We request them. It is the immigration authorities and sometimes the security people who make the decisions," he said.

The UAE has no diplomatic ties with Israel and denies entry to its citizens. Israeli doubles specialist Andy Ram was given a special permit to compete in this week's men's tournament in Dubai, ensuring the event goes ahead as planned.

Shir Hever, an Israeli economist at the joint Palestinian-Israeli Alternative Information Centre in Israel, told Gulf News that boycotts of Israel can be effective in raising awareness, but that it was important to distinguish between boycotting individuals and institutions. "Israel as a state should not be invited to participate in international competitions, and Israelis must realise that as long as their government continues to ignore its international law obligations, Israel will not be accepted as a legitimate member of the international community," he said.

"Clearly Shahar Peer was not personally accused of committing any crime. However, in these cases one should ask Ė are tennis players from Gaza able to participate in international events? Unfortunately, the answer is no. Israel traps the people of Gaza in prison-like conditions, and they cannot participate in any international cultural events," he said.

According to media reports, Shahar Peer completed her mandatory military service in the Israel Defence Forces in October 2007, having enjoyed elementary combat training and excelling in rifle marksmanship. She even faced protests at one of her matches in New Zealand following Israel's war on Gaza, which killed 1,300 people.

Emirati political scientist Dr Ebtisam Al Kitby said: "We like all other countries have laws that have to be followed. This is true for Israel too, as I can't imagine it extending the same opportunities for a Palestinian sportsperson. If the tables had turned and Israel had banned entry to a Palestinian tennis player, I doubt that the Women's Tennis Association would have stood by the Palestinian".

http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth/dubaitennis09/sub_story/10288407.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The article answers your question, laws must be respected.

Launching an anti-Dubai-media campaign is wrong when the media was not provided with any agreement the WTA may have with the UAE state. Because of this wrongful anti-Dubai-media campaign the UAE created a special permit as a defence, in my educated opinion. Israeli passports are being used as political media smear tools. I recall Israel's "brand name" is the lowest amoungst countries, which was voted by people of the world. I don't have the list but would like to know where the United Arab Emirates are ranked.

griffin
Feb 22nd, 2009, 02:15 PM
the media was not provided with any agreement the WTA may have with the UAE state. /[quote]

Yes they were. Dubai had to agree to allow all otherwise-eligible players in to compete as a condition for being granted a tournament.

[quote] I recall Israel's "brand name" is the lowest amoungst countries, which was voted by people of the world.

Totally irrelevant in the context of this argument.

So much for your educated opinion.

Apoleb
Feb 22nd, 2009, 02:27 PM
[quote=OC521;15065449] the media was not provided with any agreement the WTA may have with the UAE state. /[quote]

Yes they were. Dubai had to agree to allow all otherwise-eligible players in to compete as a condition for being granted a tournament.



Totally irrelevant in the context of this argument.

So much for your educated opinion.

As for "We like all other countries have laws that have to be followed. This is true for Israel too, as I can't imagine it extending the same opportunities for a Palestinian sportsperson...." - to my knowledge, Israel has never denied access to Palestinian athletes wishing to enter athletic competitions.

Athletes/teams from muslim countries have certainly forfeited matches rather than enter Israel to compete - but not because the Israelis denied them entrance.

You're completely wrong to say the least. Israel constantly denies Palestinian atheletes in the West Bank and Gaza visas so they can leave Israel to compete elsewhere. Hell, they denied visas for fullbright scholars and others who received scholarships in the US. (http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2007/10/31/sports/19327238&sec=sports, one of many examples)

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 02:31 PM
I found the ranking for Israel. UAE was not surveyed.


Survey: Israel worst brand name in the world


Global Research, November 24, 2006
Israel Today - 2006-11-22

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3960


As if Israelís position in the world in not bad enough, a new survey published in the US Wednesday says that Israel is suffering from the worst public image among all countries of the world.

The study, called the National Brands Index, conducted by government advisor Simon Anholt and powered by global market intelligence solutions provider GMI (Global Market Insite, Inc.), shows that Israel is at the bottom of the list by a considerable margin in the publicís perception of its image.

The Index surveyed 25,903 online consumers across 35 countries about their perceptions of those countries across six areas of national competence: Investment and Immigration, Exports, Culture and Heritage, People, Governance and Tourism. The NBI is the first analytical ranking of the world's nation brands.

"Israel's brand is by a considerable margin the most negative we have ever measured in the NBI, and comes at the bottom of the ranking on almost every question," states report author Simon Anholt.

Anholt believes that the politics of a nation can affect every single aspect of a person's perception about a country. In the light of the recent announcement that the Israeli Foreign Ministry has taken upon itself to re-brand Israel, Anholt comments that to succeed in permanently changing the country's image, the country has to be prepared to change its behavior. He reiterates his strong belief that a reputation cannot be constructed: it has to be earned.

"If Israel's intention is to promote itself as a desirable place to live and invest in, the challenge appears to be a steep one," Anholt concluded.

The survey also indicated that Israel came last in each area by a long margin, including the fact that of the 36 countries ranked, there is nowhere that respondents would like to visit less than Israel. Worse yet, the survey indicates that Israelís people were also voted the most unwelcoming in the world.

And there was one more unpleasant surprise: Whoever thought that the United States is Israelís best friend and Israel is loved in the US, the index indicated that Americans ranked Israel just slightly above China in terms of its conduct in the areas of international peace and security.

The 35 countries polled for the study were: Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, Estonia, France, Germany, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, UK, and the USA.


Original article at Israel Today, an Israeli publication.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=10395

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 02:39 PM
Your quote and message:
" [QUOTE=OC521;15065449] the media was not provided with any agreement the WTA may have with the UAE state. /[quote]

Yes they were. Dubai had to agree to allow all otherwise-eligible players in to compete as a condition for being granted a tournament.



Totally irrelevant in the context of this argument.

So much for your educated opinion.

As for "We like all other countries have laws that have to be followed. This is true for Israel too, as I can't imagine it extending the same opportunities for a Palestinian sportsperson...." - to my knowledge, Israel has never denied access to Palestinian athletes wishing to enter athletic competitions.

Athletes/teams from muslim countries have certainly forfeited matches rather than enter Israel to compete - but not because the Israelis denied them entrance.


My response:
You have mistaken Dubai for United Arab Emirates (UAE). If CNN had a copy of a WTA agreement with the UAE I'm sure there would have been quotes in their online news stories or highlights in their news broadcast if it was done in Atlanta headquarters. That's my observed opinion of CNN news since 1991.

:lol:So much for my educated opinion, eh? :lol:
If the U.S. decided to reduce their multi-billion dollar defence budget in exchange for equal health care through out all 50 united states then Israel would politically collapse.

Bilbo123
Feb 22nd, 2009, 02:46 PM
I found the ranking for Israel. UAE was not surveyed.

There was a poll in many countries as of late of which country is the most popular one. Germany ranked #1 :worship:

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 03:34 PM
[QUOTE=OC521;15065449] the media was not provided with any agreement the WTA may have with the UAE state. /[quote]

Yes they were. Dubai had to agree to allow all otherwise-eligible players in to compete as a condition for being granted a tournament.



Totally irrelevant in the context of this argument.

So much for your educated opinion.

As for "We like all other countries have laws that have to be followed. This is true for Israel too, as I can't imagine it extending the same opportunities for a Palestinian sportsperson...." - to my knowledge, Israel has never denied access to Palestinian athletes wishing to enter athletic competitions.

Athletes/teams from muslim countries have certainly forfeited matches rather than enter Israel to compete - but not because the Israelis denied them entrance.


Palestinian football team was denied a visas for entry to Israel last year ,..."question of security" they said .

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 03:44 PM
SURVEY : ISRAEL WORST BRAND NAME ..

"If Israel's intention is to promote itself as a desirable place to live and invest in, the challenge appears to be a steep one," Anholt concluded.

The survey also indicated that Israel came last in each area by a long margin, including the fact that of the 36 countries ranked, there is nowhere that respondents would like to visit less than Israel. Worse yet, the survey indicates that Israelís people were also voted the most unwelcoming in the world. "


I am not surprised at all lol , who in the earth with a kind of humanity would love to visit this country ?, a country where citizen are also soldiers and dayly kill innocent people in Gaza :rolleyes:....i far more prefer China than this country . I far more prefer visiting Gaza than Israel , unfortunately one cannot enter Gaza without entering Israel it seems .

raffles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 04:28 PM
What does Israel "brand name" have to do with Dubai ability to follow the rules that they signed up for? Dubai and the UAE in general have gone down in my opinion since this incident, does that mean its "brand name" has been affected too?

griffin
Feb 22nd, 2009, 05:38 PM
You're completely wrong to say the least. Israel constantly denies Palestinian atheletes in the West Bank and Gaza visas so they can leave Israel to compete elsewhere. Hell, they denied visas for fullbright scholars and others who received scholarships in the US. (http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2007/10/31/sports/19327238&sec=sports, one of many examples)

Thank you for the correction and the link - I've edited my post.

cypher_88
Feb 22nd, 2009, 05:47 PM
i certainly hope they appeal.

MistyGrey
Feb 22nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
I hope Dubai tells the WTA to shove it and cancels the event...

raffles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 06:01 PM
I hope Dubai tells the WTA to shove it and cancels the event...
So do I, at least the WTA can start rebuilding its diginity after being under the thumb of those devious sheiks.

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 06:12 PM
What does Israel "brand name" have to do with Dubai ability to follow the rules that they signed up for? Dubai and the UAE in general have gone down in my opinion since this incident, does that mean its "brand name" has been affected too?

How could it have gone down? No, Dubai and UAE brand name didnít go down.

Dubai did its part to bring everyone there like Larry Scott said in the CNN interview. UAE did its parts and stated security reasons prevented Peíer from entering the country, even though she is not allowed into the country as a regular citizen of Israel.

The WTA, Peíer and others launched a smear campaign against UAE. In my opinion it could be viewed as politically motivated financial black mail. Why hasnít Israelís Ministry of Foreign Affairs commented on this issue? Sports employment is not politics, perhaps?

I mentioned brand name because I wanted people to get a better understanding of the regions in dispute; that being Israel and UAE, even though it should just be an Israeli citizen Shahar Peíer versus UAE border patrol issue.

Maybe this sports employment issue could be solved by Israel adapting a US Defence Department budget sponsored Dayton Peace Agreement; whereby, Gaza and the West Bank are one entity within Israel and the other entity being a Jewish entity.

They would all have one passport, one currency, one foreign policy, but, two different tax codes and collection decided by each entity. The two entities would have their own temporary entity borders, which would dissolve as time passes with the emerging generations. The same with entity police merging as one if emerging generations get along. There would be no need for an army since the Mediterranean Union (Med U) would need to implement this and not NATO. Thatís maybe why Germany and Poland demanded to become a member of the Med U, so that the Palestinian Arab entity could trust someone within the Med U.

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
Jerusalem would be like Brcko, an international zone.

raffles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 06:25 PM
How could it have gone down? No, Dubai and UAE brand name didn’t go down.
In your opinion!

OC521
Feb 22nd, 2009, 06:26 PM
I have a brilliant IDEA! Jerusalem should be the capital of Med U!

hingis-seles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 07:58 PM
Dubai should tell the WTA to shove it. Right now, the WTA can not afford to anger the UAE tournament officials. If Dubai Duty Free pulls its sponsorship and the event is cancelled, where will they get the finances to replace all the lost revenue? Israel?

UAE is not to blame in this at all. They don't recognise Israel as a state - plain and simple. The WTA should never have let them hold a tournament. All the blame falls on the WTA.

raffles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:02 PM
I can't believe that people are excusing UAE actions by blaming the WTA poor judgement. It's true nowhere in the ME should be hold a WTA tournament but I hardly think that makes the UAE action excusable or in any way noble.

Apoleb
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:10 PM
Dubai should tell the WTA to shove it. Right now, the WTA can not afford to anger the UAE tournament officials. If Dubai Duty Free pulls its sponsorship and the event is cancelled, where will they get the finances to replace all the lost revenue? Israel?

UAE is not to blame in this at all. They don't recognise Israel as a state - plain and simple. The WTA should never have let them hold a tournament. All the blame falls on the WTA.

I agree.. The tournament directors are not in breach of their contract cause they let Peer in the draw. The WTA knew the visa problems that an Israeli player would get, and still decided to ignore them. They should've resolved all those visa issues prior to the tournament (with coordination between Israeli players, the Israeli tennis federation and the UAE government), and if they didn't reach a solution, then they should've dumped the whole thing all together.

Apoleb
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:13 PM
I can't believe that people are excusing UAE actions by blaming the WTA poor judgement. It's true nowhere in the ME should be hold a WTA tournament but I hardly think that makes the UAE action excusable or in any way noble.

Aren't you tired of your whole racist act about those "devious sheiks"?

serenus_2k8
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:26 PM
I felt bad for Dubai as its been a great event (go Vee :woohoo:) and I thought the tourny wasnt responsible for the visas, but after getting Andy Ram one so easily, I guess I was wrong.

The WTA shouldnt fine them so much though IMO, its better to put it behind them and move on.

cehowardrx7
Feb 22nd, 2009, 08:44 PM
I can't believe that people are excusing UAE actions by blaming the WTA poor judgement. It's true nowhere in the ME should be hold a WTA tournament but I hardly think that makes the UAE action excusable or in any way noble.

You know your post always go the same way. Do you have blinders on or you just that out of touch with reality?? Which is it?..

You are talking about UAE actions, as far as I know, the UAE hasn't killed 437 children in the last month..

Your logic is so far down the bottom that fair minded people would need a strong telescope to see it!!

HRHoliviasmith
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM
I hope Dubai tells the WTA to shove it and cancels the event...


Dubai should tell the WTA to shove it. Right now, the WTA can not afford to anger the UAE tournament officials. If Dubai Duty Free pulls its sponsorship and the event is cancelled, where will they get the finances to replace all the lost revenue? Israel?

UAE is not to blame in this at all. They don't recognise Israel as a state - plain and simple. The WTA should never have let them hold a tournament. All the blame falls on the WTA.


I agree.

bobbynorwich
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:24 PM
At this point, I imagine there's so little trust and so much bad blood in the relationship between the Dubai tourney and WTA that it's probably not repairable, even if they can agree on new contract terms.

Maybe the best outcome is to mutually agree to go their separate ways. Doing so is not the end of the world and puts to rest all the distracting international brouhaha.

The players already complain that their schedules are overcrowded with too many events. Why not make it one less?
.

raffles
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:07 PM
At this point, I imagine there's so little trust and so much bad blood in the relationship between the Dubai tourney and WTA that it's probably not repairable, even if they can agree on new contract terms.

Maybe the best outcome is to mutually agree to go their separate ways. Doing so is not the end of the world and puts to rest all the distracting international brouhaha.

The players already complain that their schedules are overcrowded with too many events. Why not make it one less?
.

This is probably a wise move. Admit that hosting the tournament in Dubai just isn't working and move on. Maybe in 20/25 years in the future the WTA came come back to Dubai if the situation has changed and the whole ME hasn't been eradiated in orgy of mutually assured destruction.

Melly Flew Us
Feb 23rd, 2009, 10:37 PM
So do I, at least the WTA can start rebuilding its diginity after being under the thumb of those devious sheiks.
grooming alert.

bobbynorwich
Feb 23rd, 2009, 11:36 PM
Watch trophy presentations at Dubai Womens 2009, including Venus Williams statement regarding visa controversy.

JYQ-OO215HA


Note: In beginning of tape, it stops and starts a few seconds three times.

terjw
Feb 24th, 2009, 12:54 AM
The only thing they can possibly appeal against is the fine. Also - I don't think the penalty was explicitly defined in the contract - so they can whine about that. But if I have a contract with a builder and he doesn't do the work - he's broken the contract even if it wasn't his fault directly like if he got a third party and the third party didn't turn up.

It also depends exactly what the contract said whether they can weasle their way out the fine by saying it was the UAE. If they can - that loophole will be plugged in future.

There's no point appealing about anything else like what they must do next year. They have a choice to abide by the rules and put 2 million dollars up by July as a guarantee or not have the tournament. It won't get them anywhere whining about it or going to court on that. If they don't like the rules - they can decide not to hold a tournament next year without going to court. But of course they want to hold a tournament.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:36 AM
Yes they were. Dubai had to agree to allow all otherwise-eligible players in to compete as a condition for being granted a tournament.

Of course, but the WTA knew the law was active since 2000, Laws are laws, sports do not stand above it, and that's what happened in this case.

You can be eligible as much as you want, it has no ground to break a law for it.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:41 AM
At this point, I imagine there's so little trust and so much bad blood in the relationship between the Dubai tourney and WTA that it's probably not repairable, even if they can agree on new contract terms.

Maybe the best outcome is to mutually agree to go their separate ways. Doing so is not the end of the world and puts to rest all the distracting international brouhaha.

The players already complain that their schedules are overcrowded with too many events. Why not make it one less?
.

WTA can't do much to Dubai, Dubai has invested millions over the past years in the infrastructure of the WTA. If I remembered correctly it was about 96.5 million dollar. It was in an article of the WTA Press section in 2004. And the WTA signed contracts for that too, not sure how long they last, but the amount of money could point at 10 years or more.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:43 AM
I felt bad for Dubai as its been a great event (go Vee :woohoo:) and I thought the tourny wasnt responsible for the visas, but after getting Andy Ram one so easily, I guess I was wrong.

The WTA shouldnt fine them so much though IMO, its better to put it behind them and move on.

Dubai tourney isnt the same as dubai government. They said they tried negotiating with the government to get Peer in, all friday night, but it didn't get approven.

Andy Ram got a visa because of all the controversy, Dubai is very prould of itself, so this way they tried to freeze the headlines about Peer's situation.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:48 AM
Still they managed to "break" their own laws to get Andy Ram a visa. Interesting!

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:53 AM
Still they managed to "break" their own laws to get Andy Ram a visa. Interesting!

He has dual citizenship. (Uruguayan + Israeli). Shahar Peer has dual citizenship too, at least that's what I heard.
Ram was born in Montevideo, Uruguay. His mother is Uruguayan and his father, a former professional soccer player, is Israeli, He has an older brother and younger sister. They moved to Israel when he was 5, which is when he began playing tennis.[1] Ram trained by Ronen Moralli at the Israel Tennis Centers and Wingate Institute. [1] It was at Wingate that he first met Jonathan Erlich, his future doubles partner. He became a professional tennis player in 1996 at the age of 16, but did not compete in a Grand Slam tournament until 2001. [2]
In September 2006, Ram married Shiri, his girlfriend of 10 years.
Ram is known as a fan of the soccer team Beitar Jerusalem FC

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 01:54 AM
He has dual citizenship.
He applied using his Israeli passport.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:00 AM
He applied using his Israeli passport.

Nope he used his Uruguayan.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:02 AM
Nope he used his Uruguayan.
And you know this how?

If you believe that the UAE should continue to exclude qualifying players on the basis of their nationality that is fine but if they continue to do so, the bottom line is they are going to lose the tournament. That has been made clear, they can make their choices either way.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:02 AM
Andy Ram's visa was most likely granted not because of the actions of Congressman Weiner or the magnanimity and sportsmanship of the United Arab Emirates. Andy Ram probably used his Uruguayan passport to get around the ban and so as not to embarrass the UAE.

:)

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:05 AM
And you know this how?

If you believe that the UAE should continue to exclude qualifying players on the basis of their nationality that is fine but if they continue to do so, the bottom line is they are going to lose the tournament. That has been made clear, they can make their choices either way.

You really think the WTA has any ground? A tournament isn't responsible for visa issues, they can ask for visas, but it doesn't that they will get granted. It a sad situation for Peer, but it was the governments decision and not the tournament officials.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:06 AM
You really think the WTA has any ground? A tournament isn't responsible for visa issues, they can ask for visas, but it doesn't that they will get granted. It a sad situation for Peer, but it was the governments decision and not the tournament officials.
Yes they do, if the tournament does not comply with WTA rules it doesn't matter whoes fault it is. If its not suitable it will be removed from the calander and this has already been stated by the WTA.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:14 AM
Yes they do, if the tournament does not comply with WTA rules it doesn't matter whoes fault it is. If its not suitable it will be removed from the calander and this has already been stated by the WTA.

Law >>> WTA. The WTA can put fines as much as they want, or claim whatever they want. If Dubai appeals them, they will lose. Probably the WTA will get sued by both the government and the tournament.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:16 AM
Law >>> WTA. The WTA can put fines as much as they want, or claim whatever they want. If Dubai appeals them, they will lose. Probably the WTA will get sued by both the government and the tournament.

Yeah and on what grounds. They really are better of parting ways.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:19 AM
Yeah and on what grounds. They really are better of parting ways.

* Interferance with governmental laws (by pressuring with sanctions)
* Damaging Dubai's image
...

Those 2 could already cost the WTA millions, easily.

bobbynorwich
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:23 AM
Dubai tourney isnt the same as dubai government. They said they tried negotiating with the government to get Peer in, all friday night, but it didn't get approven.


Consider these facts.
1. The first line of the Dubai tournament states it is: "Under the patronage of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai." http://www.barclaysdubaitennischampionships.com/1/home/default.asp
2. Dubai Duty Free, one of two main sponsors, is a government agency of the United Arab Emirates, analogous to the US Dept of Commerce.
3. Barclays Bank, the other main sponsor, was saved from bankruptcy by a bailout from the UAE.

Now consider an analogous scenario where the US Open refuses the visa of a qualified Iranian tennis player and:
1. The chairman of the event is President Barack Obama.
2. The US Department of Commerce is one of two main sponsors.
3. The other main sponsor is indebted to the US government.

In defending the denial of visa for the Iranian player, the US Open then claims: "We're not to blame because we really, really, really tried to negotiate with the US government to let her in."

So unbelievable that it's beyond laughable.

.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:30 AM
Consider these facts.
1. The first line of the Dubai tournament states it is: "Under the patronage of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai." http://www.barclaysdubaitennischampionships.com/1/home/default.asp
2. Dubai Duty Free, one of two main sponsors, is a government agency of the United Arab Emirates, analogous to the US Dept of Commerce.
3. Barclays Bank, the other main sponsor, was saved from bankruptcy by a bailout from the UAE.

Now consider an analogous scenario where the US Open refuses the visa of a qualified Iranian tennis player and:
1. The chairman of the event is President Barack Obama.
2. The US Department of Commerce is one of two main sponsors.
3. The other main sponsor is indebted to the US government.

In defending the denial of visa for the Iranian player, the US Open then claims: "We're not to blame because we really, really, really tried to negotiate with the US government to let her in."

So unbelievable that it's beyond laughable.

.

They would be slaughtered in the media no doubt and nobody even in the US would believe them. This is all nonsese anyway because if the players who had been denied entry was another other than an Israeli no one would be defending the tournament. If a player got denied a visa for being black, Korean or a Muslim, I don't think we would have people defending the decision for a second.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:32 AM
Consider these facts.
1. The first line of the Dubai tournament states it is: "Under the patronage of His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai." http://www.barclaysdubaitennischampionships.com/1/home/default.asp
2. Dubai Duty Free, one of two main sponsors, is a government agency of the United Arab Emirates, analogous to the US Dept of Commerce.
3. Barclays Bank, the other main sponsor, was saved from bankruptcy by a bailout from the UAE.

Now consider an analogous scenario where the US Open refuses the visa of a qualified Iranian tennis player and:
1. The chairman of the event is President Barack Obama.
2. The US Department of Commerce is one of two main sponsors.
3. The other main sponsor is indebted to the US government.

In defending the denial of visa for the Iranian player, the US Open then claims: "We're not to blame because we really, really, really tried to negotiate with the US government to let her in."

So unbelievable that it's beyond laughable.

.

1. Every tournament consists out of a board of members.
2. The named sheikh is royal and prime minister, but he isn't the leader of UAE. The president of UAE is Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:34 AM
1. Every tournament consists out of a board of members.
2. The named sheikh is royal and prime minister, but he isn't the leader of UAE. The president of UAE is Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
So you are suggesting that the actual website of Dubai is lying and that additionally the Prime Minister has no power and is purely a cerimonial role such as that of British Queen?

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:43 AM
So you are suggesting that the actual website of Dubai is lying and that additionally the Prime Minister has no power and is purely a cerimonial role such as that of British Queen?

Everywhere in which system you are. A president will always have more power than the Prime minister. But also in no system, will a prime minister grant visas. It's a safety commitee and other governmental organs that decide that.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:47 AM
Everywhere in which system you are. A president will always have more power than the Prime minister. But also in no system, will a prime minister grant visas. It's a safety commitee and other governmental organs that decide that.
So the Prime Minister has no ability to influence the distrubution of visa for a high profile event, you are kidding. That kind of thing is done all the time by various countries for all sorts of reason, national security, public opinion. I do believe you are aware that government does not work on a linear pattern without any consulation between different levels of authority.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:51 AM
So the Prime Minister has no ability to influence the distrubution of visa for a high profile event, you are kidding. That kind of thing is done all the time by various countries for all sorts of reason, national security, public opinion. I do believe you are aware that government does not work on a linear pattern without any consulation between different levels of authority.

Surely he does. But the government and president have the last say.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:53 AM
Surely he does. But the government and president have the last say.
The Prime Minister is part of the government. Anyway the sheer fact that Andy Ram has received a visa disproves your claim.

youizahoe
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:55 AM
The Prime Minister is part of the government. Anyway the sheer fact that Andy Ram has received a visa disproves your claim.

Not if Israeli's are claiming he used his uruguayan passport.

raffles
Feb 24th, 2009, 02:59 AM
You've said this before but provided no evidence that this is the case. If he's in on another passport then Dubai can kiss their tournament goodbye and if he's in on his Israeli passport the organisers have proven themselve to be lying hypocrit. It doesn't look good for them either way.