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Morrissey
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:07 PM
I have read articles saying the Williams Sisters should support Shahar Peer but why just because they are black women? Give me a break. When have white women on the WTA ever supported the Williams Sisters? Why should Venus and Serena support Peer? Whatever. I don't see the white female tennis players supporting the Williams Sisters over Indian Wells they remained silent and continue to play the event. I don't see Billie Jean King or Chris Evert part owners of Indian Wells saying anything about it? In fact, Evert and King have made neagtive comments about the Williams Sisters over the years.

Rocketta
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:10 PM
and you couldn't post this opinion in the thread where you read the article? Need attention much? :scratch:

Optima
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:12 PM
When will this board stop being OBSESSED with anything and EVERYTHING Indian Wells and the Williams sisters? Jesus Christ, it's hilarious. We don't know the players, what they think, where they think it, and when they think it, but I'm sure a lot of them definitely want the best for the sisters at the end of the day. End of story.

Morrissey
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:14 PM
Well it's all about double standards isn't it? Here you have a low ranked white Jew Shahar Peer and the media want Venus and Serena to support her. Why? The white women on the WTA have always been very envious and jealous of the Williams Sisters incredible success so no surprise they did not take a stand on Indiann Wells. Yet the WTA NEVER supports the Williams Sisters give me a break.

Uranium
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:21 PM
Because the WS know about being discriminated against and that article writer thought that they would stand up for someone who was also being discriminated against.

Everything I've seen you post BTW, is always black vs. white:rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:21 PM
Well it's all about double standards isn't it? Here you have a low ranked white Jew Shahar Peer and the media want Venus and Serena to support her. Why? The white women on the WTA have always been very envious and jealous of the Williams Sisters incredible success so no surprise they did not take a stand on Indiann Wells. Yet the WTA NEVER supports the Williams Sisters give me a break.
I although you argument has merits, the ESPN article you are trying to rebutle was roundingly dismissed by most posters on this board as poorly researched and disjointed.

Therefore I don't think this thread is necessary.
The WS have moved on, it is time for fans to move on as well.

partbrit
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:24 PM
It's not like the non-white players have taken a stand, either. The silence all around has been very disappointing--but expected.

Dementinator
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:26 PM
Excuse me for being totally Ignorant, but what exactly happened at IW that caused this problem with the WS?

I Obviously missed it, but have heard many things about it, what did the Organisers at IW Do?

Morrissey
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:27 PM
But the WTA has not moved on they want to force the Williams Sisters to promote IW next month. The white women on the WTA have NEVER supported the Williams Sisters over Indian Wells. Not ONE white female tennis player has taken a stand and said the Indian Wells incident was RACIST.


Yet suddenly you have white and black journalists wanting Venus and Serena to support a white Jew whatever.

I doubt Venus and Serena are going to do this I sure hope they don't. It isn't black athletes JOB to be the United Nations of sports. Venus and Serena's job is to LOOK OUT for themselves because NOBODY else is doing it. When Serena was only nineteen all she had was her family when thousands of racists white Americans booed her at the Indian Wells event. White people on this board make a gazilion excuses yet this racism took place within YOUR OWN COUNTRY THE U.S.A. I thought Indian Wells was so disgusting the racism was out of line. I cannot imagine how Serena felt the racist white crowd booing EVERY single shot she hit yet Serena blocked out these white American racists and WON the event anyway that's incredible mental strength.

Next despite the TV footage available you have white people on this board make five million EXCUSES saying the IW incident was not racism. You have white female tennis pros Evert and King CO OWNERS of the Indian Wells event NOT SUPPORT the Williams Sisters of course. Because King and Evert have to make their money right. Next, you have the WTA basically trying to force the Williams Sisters to play the event.

The WTA never supported the Williams Sisters and I don't feel Venus or Serena should support Shahar Peer. Peer never supported them and they shouldn't feel the need to support her.

Dave.
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:31 PM
Why didnt you just post this in the thread? :weirdo:

There is no need to make this a matter of race.

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:31 PM
Another reason why this thread is not necessary, the manufactured outrage and indignation of posters who think they are being unfairly accused of being racist would be the only reaction you get.
For them, that reaction alone is enough to address any substancive argument you make.

None would address the double standards issue that is front and center in your original post.

spice_of_life
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:37 PM
:weirdo: :weirdo: :weirdo:

volta
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:13 PM
you do realise that u do more BAD then GOOD to the girls when u start useless threads like this right? :unsure: it's like opening the flood gates for the haters to come, as if they need more reasons to unleash their venom towards them :o

LeonHart
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:29 PM
You think the Indian Wells incident is racist, and I don't. I'm sure many people don't think it's racist either. The end.

youizahoe
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:30 PM
But the WTA has not moved on they want to force the Williams Sisters to promote IW next month. The white women on the WTA have NEVER supported the Williams Sisters over Indian Wells. Not ONE white female tennis player has taken a stand and said the Indian Wells incident was RACIST.


Yet suddenly you have white and black journalists wanting Venus and Serena to support a white Jew whatever.

I doubt Venus and Serena are going to do this I sure hope they don't. It isn't black athletes JOB to be the United Nations of sports. Venus and Serena's job is to LOOK OUT for themselves because NOBODY else is doing it. When Serena was only nineteen all she had was her family when thousands of racists white Americans booed her at the Indian Wells event. White people on this board make a gazilion excuses yet this racism took place within YOUR OWN COUNTRY THE U.S.A. I thought Indian Wells was so disgusting the racism was out of line. I cannot imagine how Serena felt the racist white crowd booing EVERY single shot she hit yet Serena blocked out these white American racists and WON the event anyway that's incredible mental strength.

Next despite the TV footage available you have white people on this board make five million EXCUSES saying the IW incident was not racism. You have white female tennis pros Evert and King CO OWNERS of the Indian Wells event NOT SUPPORT the Williams Sisters of course. Because King and Evert have to make their money right. Next, you have the WTA basically trying to force the Williams Sisters to play the event.

The WTA never supported the Williams Sisters and I don't feel Venus or Serena should support Shahar Peer. Peer never supported them and they shouldn't feel the need to support her.

Kim Clijsters did. She also felt horrible and ashamed for the reaction the crowd gave to Serena. Hence the fact that since then, the Williams family looked at Kim as if she were one of their own.

canuckfan
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:36 PM
A new thread by Morrissey :bounce:

[making popcorn]The best form of entertainment![/making popcorn] :banana:

InsideOut.
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:42 PM
Most of them don't know the exact details. Sorry, but this isn't as widely known as the Peer incident is. Newspapers are all over this but most people may not know the Indian Wells incident.

améliemomo
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:44 PM
perhaps because being racist appear to people less scandalous than being antisemitic:tape::tape:

timafi
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:45 PM
it's either about black vs white or homosexuality with you Morrisey.When you're not on the espn board;you're here:rolleyes: :mad:

TheAllan
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:54 PM
Give me a break.
And give the board some better trolls.

markdelaney
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:06 PM
perhaps because being racist appear to people less scandalous than being antisemitic:tape::tape:

There are differences between being banned from a tournament and being booed by a few idiot fans.

Racism and anti semitism are as bad as each other. At least venus and Serena could kick sand in the face of those idiots who boo them by playing matches. Shahar didn't get that chance

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:16 PM
You think the Indian Wells incident is racist, and I don't. I'm sure many people don't think it's racist either. The end.
Just because you say so?

BTW, Hingis made a sweeping statement at the time that there was no racism in tennis. Period.
Many people scratch their head then. And many are doing the same now about your statement.

Black Mamba.
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:18 PM
Don't take anything Jemele Hill writes too seriously.

LindsayRulz
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:20 PM
Stop trying Morrissey please :o

Dawson.
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:21 PM
Not everyone believes that the IW incident was racially motivated - whereas the Peer issue unquestionably was. The Williams sisters have left it too late to ever go back to IW. Venus and Serena choose not to play, not thre case with Peer who was rejected. If they had carried on playing, there may have been a few boos and jeers, but everything would have died down in 2/3 years and it would not even be an issue today.

Demska
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:22 PM
because there is nothing to take a stand on? :confused:

cehowardrx7
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:23 PM
When will this board stop being OBSESSED with anything and EVERYTHING Indian Wells and the Williams sisters? Jesus Christ, it's hilarious. We don't know the players, what they think, where they think it, and when they think it, but I'm sure a lot of them definitely want the best for the sisters at the end of the day. End of story.

If you were as old as me, you could undertstand. Such are the ways of HATERS. Haters will try to connect anything and everything bad to the people they hate! In this instance, the WS. The WS, dared to play professional tennis(not a minority sport), and dare to beat everybody too. Who they think they are?? That is what a hater would say, and then come with some crazy stuff behind it.

That is the way HATERS think. So, it shouldn't have suprised you that they tried to link the WS to Dubai, or anything that is negative!!

BTW, haters are funny, and fun to watch too. :lol:

They will try to piss on ya, and tell ya it is raining!!:lol:

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:23 PM
Not everyone believes that the IW incident was racially motivated - whereas the Peer issue unquestionably was. The William sisters have left it too late to ever go back to IW. Venus and Serena choose not to play IW. If they had carried on playing, there may have been a few boos and jeers, but everything would have died down in 2/3 years.
Of course, isn't always that the case?

Kim's_fan_4ever
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:23 PM
Again idiotic thread by Morrissey :weirdo:

Nicolas
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:25 PM
I think Morrissey is the most boring thread starter ever :bigclap:

sammy01
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:28 PM
what a stupid thread made to start a fight by having the word white in the title. if you want to ask why don't other players stick up for the williams sisters fine, but why just single out white players, chanda rubin, jackson, washington, stevenson ect all have played the tournament since the incident should they not stand up for williams as well?

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:29 PM
Again idiotic thread by Morrissey :weirdo:
I wouldn't call idiotic.
I'll say it is counterproductive because most people (including yourself) would not discuss it seriously.

BTW, Clijsters found the whole incident embarrasing and unfair. Maybe you did not know that.

Kim's_fan_4ever
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:31 PM
I wouldn't call idiotic.
I'll say it is counterproductive because most people (including) would not discuss it seriously.

BTW, Clijsters found the whole incident embarrasing and unfair. Maybe you did not know that.

Ok.

dexx80
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:41 PM
oh god stop with this racist discussions. USA now have half black half white guy as president so that is proof that racism is not such a big issue in usa anymore.

Kworb
Feb 21st, 2009, 04:49 PM
Excuse me for being totally Ignorant, but what exactly happened at IW that caused this problem with the WS?

I Obviously missed it, but have heard many things about it, what did the Organisers at IW Do?

Venus and Serena were up against each other in the semi final. Right before the match started, Venus pulled out with a vague injury. This angered the many spectators, particularly because the two are sisters and logically there had been talk of match fixing since they stepped onto the scene.

During the final, the people would not calm down and continuously booed Serena and her family as she defeated Clijsters. Richard claims he also heard racial slurs. To the Williams family it felt like a lynch mob and that's why they vowed to never return to IW.

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:02 PM
Venus and Serena were up against each other in the semi final. Right before the match started, Venus pulled out with a vague injury. This angered the many spectators, particularly because the two are sisters and logically there had been talk of match fixing since they stepped onto the scene.

During the final, the people would not calm down and continuously booed Serena and her family as she defeated Clijsters. Richard claims he also heard racial slurs. To the Williams family it felt like a lynch mob and that's why they vowed to never return to IW.
Excellent synopsis.

The Dementinator or others can also google the incident.

BTW, Kim Clijsters, Serena's opponent, found the incident very embarrasing and unfair to the Williams family and said so.

Richard confronted MJF and Pam Shriver for not being more forceful in denouncing the racials slurs during the match.

In the stand, people were yelling at Venus and Richard as they look to take their seats.
That is when Richard said he first heard racial slurs directed at them.
Wacthing on TV, you could visibly see people pointing, gesturing (in an animated way) at them and shouting things. You could tell by their faces that they were complimenting Richard and Venus.

Venus was wearing dark sun glasses and her head held down making her way to her seat.

jacobruiz
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:08 PM
Venus and Serena were up against each other in the semi final. Right before the match started, Venus pulled out with a vague injury. This angered the many spectators, particularly because the two are sisters and logically there had been talk of match fixing since they stepped onto the scene.

During the final, the people would not calm down and continuously booed Serena and her family as she defeated Clijsters. Richard claims he also heard racial slurs. To the Williams family it felt like a lynch mob and that's why they vowed to never return to IW.

I still don't understand why someone in charge of the tournament didn't order the match to be stopped until the people totally quieted down. I saw the match (on TV) and it was truly horrible. And I don't believe they have ever apologized for failing to control the crowd.

LeonHart
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:15 PM
Excellent synopsis.

The oster can also google the incident.

BTW, Kim Clijsters, Serena's opponent, found the incident very embarrasing and unfair to the Williams family and said so.

Richard confronted MJF and Pam Shriver for not being more forceful in denouncing the racials slurs during the match.

In the stand, people were yelling at Venus and Richard and they look to take their seats. That is when Richard said he first heard racial slurs directed at them. Wacthing on TV, you could visibly see people pointing at them and shouting things.
Venus was wearing dark sun glasses and her head down making her way to her seat.

Ok...but that happened to Serena at Miami as well? Why don't she drop Miami from her list as well. Face it, most of the crowd were not racist, they were just mad that the sisters were giving each other the walk over to a tier I tournament final. I don't get how some of you can justify that the entire tournament is racist therefore its a valid argument that others should stick up for this 'racist' act.

youizahoe
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:16 PM
oh god stop with this racist discussions. USA now have half black half white guy as president so that is proof that racism is not such a big issue in usa anymore.

That's why we still hear, black people having a rough time to get scholarships and mortgages, etc... Racism will always be in the USA, in fact in every country it'll stay.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:19 PM
Nobody is denying Serena or Venus the entry in Indian Wells

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:23 PM
That's why we still hear, black people having a rough time to get scholarships and mortgages, etc... Racism will always be in the USA, in fact in every country it'll stay.
In fact in 2008, same year Obama won the presidency, a black Mayor, in small town in Georgia, about 100 miles from Atlanta, voluntarily relinquished power because KKK and Nazi minority in the town were threatening to kill him is he does not do so.

Although the toiwn is majoriy white and has always been rules by a white mayor, he did win the election, but KKK and the nazis in the town do not think it was appropriate for a black man to rule other whites.

It was coverd on CNN, and I will look it up.

youizahoe
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:27 PM
In fact in 2008, same year Obama won the presidency, a black Mayor, in small town in Georgia, about 100 miles from Atlanta, voluntarily relinquished power because KKK and Nazi minority in the town were threatening to kill him is he does not do so.

Although the toiwn is majoriy white and has always been rules by a white mayor, he did win the election, but KKK and the nazis in the town do not think it was appropriate for a black man to rule other whites.

It was cover on CNN, and I will look it up.

That's really bad. To hear that those things still happen !

sammy01
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:27 PM
In fact in 2008, same year Obama won the presidency, a black Mayor, in small town in Georgia, about 100 miles from Atlanta, voluntarily relinquished power because KKK and Nazi minority in the town were threatening to kill him is he does not do so.

Although the toiwn is majoriy white and has always been rules by a white mayor, he did win the election, but KKK and the nazis in the town do not think it was appropriate for a black man to rule other whites.

It was cover on CNN, and I will look it up.

your doing exactly what the thread starter wants, everything you just posted has nothing to do with tennis, don't let him win and turn the thread into another race row thread. if you want to express those opinions do it in the non tennis section or politics section.

Svetlana.
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:38 PM
That's why we still hear, black people having a rough time to get scholarships and mortgages, etc... Racism will always be in the USA, in fact in every country it'll stay.

are you sure about scholarships or you are just fabricating the facts?

and about mortgages... did you ask yourself a question maybe it's because of their bad credit?

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:39 PM
your doing exactly what the thread starter wants, everything you just posted has nothing to do with tennis, don't let him win and turn the thread into another race row thread. if you want to express those opinions do it in the non tennis section or politics section.
Good point.
I know, but it is hard to let some of the nonsense go unchalenged.

Ifi you look at my earlier posts, I did not think ( and still don't) this thread was good idea because of what it has become.

*JR*
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:39 PM
But the WTA has not moved on they want to force the Williams Sisters to promote IW next month.
They need not promote the event, just the tour and the game. As with clinics or whatever within 125 miles (which takes in the whole LA area, including their childhood home of Compton. I suppose some of what they do will be @ the Home Depot Center in adjacent Carson.)

Yet suddenly you have white and black journalists wanting Venus and Serena to support a white Jew whatever.
Yeah, one can never trust them white Jews I guess. :scratch: They own the media, Hollywood, Wall Street, you name it. Maybe you should post on http://www.vnnforum.com. :secret: Don't tell 'em you're black, they hate U-2, and they don't even consider Jews part of the white race. :shrug:

It isn't black athletes JOB to be the United Nations of sports. Venus and Serena's job is to LOOK OUT for themselves because NOBODY else is doing it.
On this point you're actually correct. I follow golf, and when Tiger Woods was asked repeatedly a few years ago to try to get (Masters home) Augusta National to accept female members, I said that all the major male players in the field should be asked.

But Venus gave up some of the moral high ground with her widely reported comments about how the interests of sponsors were paramount. (I guess if a sponsor wanted an orgy with a bunch of players in "their tournament", she'd call that demand unreasonable.)

Svetlana.
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:44 PM
Yeah, one can never trust them white Jews I guess. :scratch: They own the media, Hollywood, Wall Street, you name it. Maybe you should post on http://www.vnnforum.com. :secret: Don't tell 'em you're black, they hate U-2, and they don't even consider Jews part of the white race. :shrug:


you can be extremely fanny at times :lol:

tennisbum79
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:44 PM
are you sure about scholarships or you are just fabricating the facts?

and about mortgages... did you ask yourself a question maybe it's because of their bad credit?
I don't know where you live.
But are you familiar with the term red-lining or predatory leanding?

Red-lining is a term used to describe exclusion by some banks of minority neighborhoods, regardless of the individual inhabitants credit rating.

Svetlana.
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:49 PM
I don't know where you live.
But are you familiar with the term red-lining or predatory leanding?

Red-lining is a term used to describe exclusion by some banks of minority neighborhoods, regardless of the individual inhabitants credit rating.

Where I live I see no problems for blacks getting mortgages and buying new homes for themselves and their children.

Malva
Feb 21st, 2009, 05:58 PM
I don't know where you live.
But are you familiar with the term red-lining or predatory leanding?

Red-lining is a term used to describe exclusion by some banks of minority neighborhoods, regardless of the individual inhabitants credit rating.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Insuring a house, or a car, is more difficult when you live in some areas. Even if you yourself have as clean record as possible. One is paying for the bad record of one's neighbors. I have been experiencing this myself. At least you said 'by some banks'.

youizahoe
Feb 21st, 2009, 06:38 PM
are you sure about scholarships or you are just fabricating the facts?

and about mortgages... did you ask yourself a question maybe it's because of their bad credit?

I heard it from various black friends I have that are in the usa, with a job and no debts, and they had to visit tons of banks to finally get one.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 21st, 2009, 07:28 PM
You think the Indian Wells incident is racist, and I don't. I'm sure many people don't think it's racist either. The end.

funny how that pretty much breaks down between whites and blacks.

White guilt leads some to deny racial incidents because hey we're carrying enough of that already.

Even if it wasn't a racial incident. That should never happen, especially outside of fed/davis cup. Venus and Serena have every right to refuse to play anywhere where they were made to feel unwelcome.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 21st, 2009, 07:32 PM
oh god stop with this racist discussions. USA now have half black half white guy as president so that is proof that racism is not such a big issue in usa anymore.

wtf would you know...

mimic this:help:

Svetlana.
Feb 21st, 2009, 07:34 PM
I heard it from various black friends I have that are in the usa, with a job and no debts, and they had to visit tons of banks to finally get one.

Possible, especially if they are recent college graduates, but still people with a job and no debts could have a bad credit (things like not paying their bills on time and so on..)

and if your friends are looking for a credit at this present time then it has nothing to do with the color of their skin, but the current troubling banking financial situation. It's very hard for all people to find credits for scholarships or mortgages.

franny
Feb 21st, 2009, 08:27 PM
But the WTA has not moved on they want to force the Williams Sisters to promote IW next month. The white women on the WTA have NEVER supported the Williams Sisters over Indian Wells. Not ONE white female tennis player has taken a stand and said the Indian Wells incident was RACIST.


Yet suddenly you have white and black journalists wanting Venus and Serena to support a white Jew whatever.

I doubt Venus and Serena are going to do this I sure hope they don't. It isn't black athletes JOB to be the United Nations of sports. Venus and Serena's job is to LOOK OUT for themselves because NOBODY else is doing it. When Serena was only nineteen all she had was her family when thousands of racists white Americans booed her at the Indian Wells event. White people on this board make a gazilion excuses yet this racism took place within YOUR OWN COUNTRY THE U.S.A. I thought Indian Wells was so disgusting the racism was out of line. I cannot imagine how Serena felt the racist white crowd booing EVERY single shot she hit yet Serena blocked out these white American racists and WON the event anyway that's incredible mental strength.

Next despite the TV footage available you have white people on this board make five million EXCUSES saying the IW incident was not racism. You have white female tennis pros Evert and King CO OWNERS of the Indian Wells event NOT SUPPORT the Williams Sisters of course. Because King and Evert have to make their money right. Next, you have the WTA basically trying to force the Williams Sisters to play the event.

The WTA never supported the Williams Sisters and I don't feel Venus or Serena should support Shahar Peer. Peer never supported them and they shouldn't feel the need to support her.

While I don't think Venus or Serena owe anything to anyone, I do feel a need to distinguish the situation a little bit for you.

1. I think that the situation here that those articles are comparing about is not that a black woman should help a white woman. This isn't about black v. white. It's about racism, and systematically discriminating against a player because of her minority status - i.e. her race or ethnicity. The main point the article writers were making was that if anyone knew what it would be like to be discriminated as a minority, it would be the Williams Sisters. Thus, rather than a black v. white thing, it is a minority standing up for another minority thing.

2. Another difference is that the Williams Sisters were not discriminated against by the organizers of an event. They were discriminated by fans and people whom the organizers simply had no control over. Was it right? Hell no! Should the Williams play there again? Hell no! Should THOSE Indian Wells fans be ashamed of themselves? FUCK YEA! But what was the WTA Tour supposed to do? Fine the tennis organizers who had no control over the way the fans acted? Take the tournament away from Indian Wells, and thereby robbing from many tennis fans around the world who do enjoy the event just because on that day, those fans acted in such indignant and heinous ways? No, that is not the solution. But Peer's situation is different. Not in that its worst, because its is NOT, but because here there was readily some remedy and punishment available for the WTA to enforce. This time, it was tennis organizers and gov't officials who did something wrong, and as such they should be punished for it (and they did). I think the WTA did the right thing this time. I don't think they should take the tournament away, because again that would be robbing many tennis fans all over the world of a tournament when they did not do anything wrong. But the point is that with regards to the Indian Wells event, the sisters took a major stance against it, and decided never to play there again because they recognized that it was racist what happened to them. And the Williams are defenders against racism, right? If so, then why play in Dubai, when what happened to Shahar Peer was racism in action? I think that that is what the article writers are alluding to.

Let me just say however that I don't think the Williams did anything wrong. I think that those article writers need to realize that the Williams are not boycotting Indian Wells simply because they are "racist," because I think that if what the fans did had been directed towards another player, or another player of another race (say like, Na Li), the Williams would still be playing there today. The point is that the Williams suffered themselves, and that is why they are not playing at Indian Wells ever again. People need to accept that. It is for the same reason that Monica Seles never played in Germany again. Even if she could be assured that her safety would be 100% safe, she'd never go back there because of what she associates with that place - namely the most traumatic event of her life. The Williams, similarly will never go back to Indian Wells because they associate it with an extremely traumatic event of their life. People need to accept it, and just move on with it.

scoobsuk
Feb 21st, 2009, 08:32 PM
Could I get a rough timescale for when the people who still haven't, are going to get OVER this?

pav
Feb 21st, 2009, 08:34 PM
Threadstarter realy does urgently need to seek help, He/She is as we say over here Acouple of kumara short of a hangi!

Shooter
Feb 21st, 2009, 10:36 PM
Nobody is denying Serena or Venus the entry in Indian WellsExactly right. What happened with the Williams sisters at IW was a consequence of their own behavior. True - the crowd may have been rude and some of that may have been racially motivated. I don't blame the Williams sisters for not going back there. They should not be punished for it. But the IW situation is not at all comparable to the Dubai situation. Kudos to Andy Roddick who has more guts than all the WTA players combined who played in Dubai. He will always have my respect from here on in.

Svetlana.
Feb 21st, 2009, 10:43 PM
Exactly right. What happened with the Williams sisters at IW was a consequence of their own behavior. True - the crowd may have been rude and some of that may have been racially motivated. I don't blame the Williams sisters for not going back there. They should not be punished for it. But the IW situation is not at all comparable to the Dubai situation. Kudos to Andy Roddick who has more guts than all the WTA players combined who played in Dubai. He will always have my respect from here on in.

what did Andy say?

HRHoliviasmith
Feb 21st, 2009, 10:50 PM
Exactly right. What happened with the Williams sisters at IW was a consequence of their own behavior. True - the crowd may have been rude and some of that may have been racially motivated. I don't blame the Williams sisters for not going back there. They should not be punished for it. But the IW situation is not at all comparable to the Dubai situation. Kudos to Andy Roddick who has more guts than all the WTA players combined who played in Dubai. He will always have my respect from here on in.

what exactly was it that serena did wrong again?

youizahoe
Feb 21st, 2009, 10:56 PM
Possible, especially if they are recent college graduates, but still people with a job and no debts could have a bad credit (things like not paying their bills on time and so on..)

and if your friends are looking for a credit at this present time then it has nothing to do with the color of their skin, but the current troubling banking financial situation. It's very hard for all people to find credits for scholarships or mortgages.

It was before the recession.

Volcana
Feb 21st, 2009, 10:59 PM
I have read articles saying the Williams Sisters should support Shahar Peer but why just because they are black women? Give me a break. When have white women on the WTA ever supported the Williams Sisters? Why should Venus and Serena support Peer? Whatever. I don't see the white female tennis players supporting the Williams Sisters over Indian Wells they remained silent and continue to play the event. I don't see Billie Jean King or Chris Evert part owners of Indian Wells saying anything about it? In fact, Evert and King have made neagtive comments about the Williams Sisters over the years.If you want to retain a shred of credibility on this is, you might start with 'Billie Jean King has been a big supporter of the Williams sisters over the years, even to the point of drawing considerable criticism for putting Serena on the 2000 US Olympic team over Lisa Raymond. She even coached them for a while."

Where Evert is concerned, you might note that she went to the point of publishing an article apologizing for her criticisms, especially toward Serena.

But, so what? Venus and Serena are the biggest stars on the tour. And they got there as outsiders. So people are going to be taking shots at them. They get paid a lot of money to take those shots with grace. At some point, as Williams fans, we need to stop being so defensive. It's fighting a battle long ago won. The prophecy came true, they did dominate the tour, they've won a bunch of slams and both been ranked #1.

The days of 'The Williams sisters will never win anything' are long gone. And the negativity that comes with winning is not to be complained about. It's an accolade, ultimately. Nobody hated Hingis til she started winning slams.

Melly Flew Us
Feb 21st, 2009, 11:31 PM
oh lord, what a thread!

i have often been disappointed by people who don't give a damn about others who may have analagous predicaments because they refuse to relate to those they consider different from themselves.

regardless of my own opinion the thread starter does have a point - why should any body stick up for any body else just because they are fellow 'victims'?

Machi
Feb 22nd, 2009, 05:55 AM
If IW is racist why does James Blake play there?

DimaDinosaur
Feb 22nd, 2009, 06:35 AM
You think the Indian Wells incident is racist, and I don't. I'm sure many people don't think it's racist either. The end.

You only say that because you're white. :rolleyes:

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:13 AM
If IW is racist why does James Blake play there? :rolleyes:

You're kidding, right?

madlove
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:31 AM
this is such an umcomfortable topic.

Golovinjured.
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:07 AM
Shahar wasn't allowed to play, she wasn't given a choice.
Serena and Venus are allowed to play, they have a choice.

Maybe that's the difference. :shrug:

spice_of_life
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:13 AM
Why is this thread still open? It has fuck all to do with tennis. :rolleyes:

Matt01
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:46 AM
You only say that because you're white. :rolleyes:


And some people think the incident was racist because they're black. :rolleyes:
It always works both ways...

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 11:16 AM
Where I live I see no problems for blacks getting mortgages and buying new homes for themselves and their children.


You mean in Russia ?? Sorry but your country is one of the most racist country in the world ...thats a fact .

Everyday , african students are killed there by skinnehead bands (Russia is full of skinnehead groups since USSR colapsed) , also foreigners workers from countries around( Kazastan , Ousbeskistan etc..) are accused of stealing your jobs and chased away , which provoques an exodus .

Besides , contrary to western countries like France , Great Britan , USA there are a very very low percentage of black people living in this country how can you explain that ? maybe thats the reason why you dont see no problems for black people having mortgages ..lol

The worst is that People know and see what happen to black students in your country everyday , but nobody take a stand against , not even the governement , you know why ? because Russian citizen found no problem in it , maybe this mentality is the reason why you dont no problem in the Williams case .

ChriS.
Feb 22nd, 2009, 11:29 AM
While I don't think Venus or Serena owe anything to anyone, I do feel a need to distinguish the situation a little bit for you.

1. I think that the situation here that those articles are comparing about is not that a black woman should help a white woman. This isn't about black v. white. It's about racism, and systematically discriminating against a player because of her minority status - i.e. her race or ethnicity. The main point the article writers were making was that if anyone knew what it would be like to be discriminated as a minority, it would be the Williams Sisters. Thus, rather than a black v. white thing, it is a minority standing up for another minority thing.

2. Another difference is that the Williams Sisters were not discriminated against by the organizers of an event. They were discriminated by fans and people whom the organizers simply had no control over. Was it right? Hell no! Should the Williams play there again? Hell no! Should THOSE Indian Wells fans be ashamed of themselves? FUCK YEA! But what was the WTA Tour supposed to do? Fine the tennis organizers who had no control over the way the fans acted? Take the tournament away from Indian Wells, and thereby robbing from many tennis fans around the world who do enjoy the event just because on that day, those fans acted in such indignant and heinous ways? No, that is not the solution. But Peer's situation is different. Not in that its worst, because its is NOT, but because here there was readily some remedy and punishment available for the WTA to enforce. This time, it was tennis organizers and gov't officials who did something wrong, and as such they should be punished for it (and they did). I think the WTA did the right thing this time. I don't think they should take the tournament away, because again that would be robbing many tennis fans all over the world of a tournament when they did not do anything wrong. But the point is that with regards to the Indian Wells event, the sisters took a major stance against it, and decided never to play there again because they recognized that it was racist what happened to them. And the Williams are defenders against racism, right? If so, then why play in Dubai, when what happened to Shahar Peer was racism in action? I think that that is what the article writers are alluding to.

Let me just say however that I don't think the Williams did anything wrong. I think that those article writers need to realize that the Williams are not boycotting Indian Wells simply because they are "racist," because I think that if what the fans did had been directed towards another player, or another player of another race (say like, Na Li), the Williams would still be playing there today. The point is that the Williams suffered themselves, and that is why they are not playing at Indian Wells ever again. People need to accept that. It is for the same reason that Monica Seles never played in Germany again. Even if she could be assured that her safety would be 100% safe, she'd never go back there because of what she associates with that place - namely the most traumatic event of her life. The Williams, similarly will never go back to Indian Wells because they associate it with an extremely traumatic event of their life. People need to accept it, and just move on with it.Great post.

sammy01
Feb 22nd, 2009, 11:33 AM
Why is this thread still open? It has fuck all to do with tennis. :rolleyes:

i agree, the thread was opened for 1 reason and that was to stir things, hence the use of the word 'white' in the title. it has totaly gone away from tennis.

Flawless
Feb 22nd, 2009, 12:36 PM
People need to understand the difference between each situation. The WS were subjected to racial slurs by white Americans, people from their own country. Peer got off lucky, all that happened to her is that she wasn't allowed because UAE doesn't recognize Israel.

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 12:44 PM
People need to understand the difference between each situation. The WS were subjected to racial slurs by white Americans, people from their own country. Peer got off lucky, all that happened to her is that she wasn't allowed because UAE doesn't recognize Israel.


You only see the difference , but the common point isnt it racism..?

Flawless
Feb 22nd, 2009, 12:58 PM
You only see the difference , but the common point isnt it racism..?

Racism??? It's more about politics. Has Shahar Peer tried before to enter Dubai before this.

miffedmax
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:00 PM
So, let's see. Clijsters did say something in support of the Williams sisters. And Venus did say something in support of Peer. So this thread has gone from mostly pointless to completely pointless.

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:01 PM
Racism??? It's more about politics. Has Shahar Peer tried before to enter Dubai before this.


NO , she said "i cant even play there " you see ?

Flawless
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:03 PM
NO , she said "i cant even play there " you see ?

Why was this her first time to try and enter Dubai???

dave1971
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:07 PM
how the fuck does this thread not get taken down or merged? Total attention-seeking spam. There are plenty threads - too many - already discussing the same topic.

spencercarlos
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:35 PM
So, let's see. Clijsters did say something in support of the Williams sisters. And Venus did say something in support of Peer. So this thread has gone from mostly pointless to completely pointless.
Some quotes from that day in IW

Serena said "How many people do you know go out there and jeer a 19-year-old? I'm just a kid," and Clijsters commented, "The crowd was very loud, even when she missed a first serve they were clapping. It's not her fault. She's still a tennis player. She's a very nice person and everything."

Again i find hard to believe that if really some racial slurs were clearly said towards Serena that day, i am sure Clijsters would have said something about it, but she is just mentionning about clapping and booing, which was we all saw on tv.

Flawless
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:41 PM
Some quotes from that day in IW

Serena said "How many people do you know go out there and jeer a 19-year-old? I'm just a kid," and Clijsters commented, "The crowd was very loud, even when she missed a first serve they were clapping. It's not her fault. She's still a tennis player. She's a very nice person and everything."

Again i find hard to believe that if really some racial slurs were clearly said towards Serena that day, i am sure Clijsters would have said something about it, but she is just mentionning about clapping and booing, which was we all saw on tv.

Maybe he doesn't know what some racial slurs mean. If someone said "Let's lynch her" Would A girl that grew up in Belgium know what that means or the meaning of a coon.

Why would the Williams sister lie about something this serious

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 01:48 PM
So, let's see. Clijsters did say something in support of the Williams sisters. And Venus did say something in support of Peer. So this thread has gone from mostly pointless to completely pointless.


I dint see her support , she didnt say a word during the ceremony right in front of the haters , which the big difference with venus who spoke in front the organisers .

Golovinjured.
Feb 22nd, 2009, 09:59 PM
Maybe he doesn't know what some racial slurs mean. If someone said "Let's lynch her" Would A girl that grew up in Belgium know what that means or the meaning of a coon.

Coon is a type of cheese in Australia. Aussie Kim would have been very confused.

Richie's
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:18 PM
To tell the true, I still don't know why Williams sisters boycot (or simply don't take part) IW... Can someone tell me?

volta
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:23 PM
So, let's see. Clijsters did say something in support of the Williams sisters. And Venus did say something in support of Peer. So this thread has gone from mostly pointless to completely pointless.

it's been pointless and useless since post #1 :o

pav
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:45 PM
Is it not time a special place for these stupid "Let's blame everything that happens to a person with dark skin because it is an easy excuse to start something" on racism, somewhere down the end of the list of the Women's tennis forums departments as they are only created to get attention!
As to the subject of racists old Richard Williams has proven himself on several well documented occasions to be a leader in the field!

Le Chat
Feb 22nd, 2009, 10:58 PM
Is it not time a special place for these stupid "Let's blame everything that happens to a person with dark skin because it is an easy excuse to start something" on racism, somewhere down the end of the list of the Women's tennis forums departments as they are only created to get attention!
As to the subject of racists old Richard Williams has proven himself on several well documented occasions to be a leader in the field!



As long as there are negationists like you , there is no way we stop denouncing anti-black racism in WTA .

morningglory
Feb 23rd, 2009, 12:01 AM
That's why we still hear, black people having a rough time to get scholarships and mortgages, etc... Racism will always be in the USA, in fact in every country it'll stay.

:o r u kidding me? :o
Out of all the minorities, Blacks have received the most money from affirmative action... you don't hear nearly as much about the latinos, asians, native americans, etc.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 23rd, 2009, 12:03 AM
:o r u kidding me? :o
Out of all the minorities, Blacks have received the most money from affirmative action... you don't hear nearly as much about the latinos, asians, native americans, etc.

FACT!!! white females are the biggest benefactors of afirmative action

Le Chat
Feb 23rd, 2009, 12:09 AM
:o r u kidding me? :o
Out of all the minorities, Blacks have received the most money from affirmative action... you don't hear nearly as much about the latinos, asians, native americans, etc.


Because Asians and latinos in the USA dont go that much far at university , they mostly prefer earning their life by settling businnesses (restaurents and co.) .

As for white americans (and not "native americans", because only indians are native americans , if not then black people are also "native americans" ) saying they dont benefit from affirmative action as often as black people is a lie .

miffedmax
Feb 23rd, 2009, 01:08 AM
Because Asians and latinos in the USA dont go that much far at university , they mostly prefer earning their life by settling businnesses (restaurents and co.) .



Stereotype much?

Also, Asian-Americans are statistically overrepresented at US universities, and 42% of Asian Americans have college degrees, the highest level of any ethnic group in the U.S. Which is not to say they don't face discrimination and challenges, and there is of course tremendous diversity among different Asian ethnic groups, as well as 2nd, third and beyond generation being more likely to be college-degreed than recent immigrants.

*JR*
Feb 23rd, 2009, 01:20 AM
According to my sources, about 5 years ago the IW owners were willing to tie a "peace treaty" with the family (including a statement of regret about the behavior of some "fans" in '01) and the sisters' return to playing there into pulling together various funding for a big low-rise housing and retail complex in their childhood Compton, named if the family wanted it for their late sister Yetunde Price.

The family thru their lawyer reportedly rejected the opportunity to have "ordinary black ppl" living in lousy conditions benefit from such a "win-win" solution. (Which would also have been a moral victory, virtually "restitution" by the IW folks.) Why? I guess cuz there was nothing personally in it for them. They're apparently "typical selfish celebrities" and "too good" for poor black ppl.

tennisbum79
Feb 23rd, 2009, 01:33 AM
Because Asians and latinos in the USA dont go that much far at university , they mostly prefer earning their life by settling businnesses (restaurents and co.) ..
I am not sure where you got this from.
Are you referring to first generation immigrants, who were adults when they got to the US?
Because this is not true for Asians American at all.
Both Asian American who were children when their parents emigrated to the US and those born here are very high achievers academicaly and do "go far at university" as you put it.

Just check out some of the elite technological schools on the west and east coasts, and that will give you an idea.
Also, unlike the past generation, Asian American are no longer only favoring science, Law and Engineering to the detriment of liberal art degree.
They are now embracing those fields that were not prestigious in the eyes of their immigrant parents.

As for white americans (and not "native americans", because only indians are native americans , if not then black people are also "native americans" ) saying they dont benefit from affirmative action as often as black people is a lie .[/quote]

supergrunt
Feb 23rd, 2009, 01:40 AM
lol

V's a star
Feb 23rd, 2009, 01:40 AM
According to my sources, about 5 years ago the IW owners were willing to tie a "peace treaty" with the family (including a statement of regret about the behavior of some "fans" in '01) and the sisters' return to playing there into pulling together various funding for a big low-rise housing and retail complex in their childhood Compton, named if the family wanted it for their late sister Yetunde Price.

The family thru their lawyer reportedly rejected the opportunity to have "ordinary black ppl" living in lousy conditions benefit from such a "win-win" solution. (Which would also have been a moral victory, virtually "restitution" by the IW folks.) Why? I guess cuz there was nothing personally in it for them. They're apparently "typical selfish celebrities" and "too good" for poor black ppl.

Well ur "sources" are obviously FUCKED!!! And its not like either Venus or Serena have ever done anything for poor black people :rolleyes:

Direwolf
Feb 23rd, 2009, 01:42 AM
agree!!!

instead of taking a stand..
momo
n dementieva
dissed them aswell...

its really weird...
that almost everybody
wants the Williams
to do everything what the others cant do...

LeonHart
Feb 23rd, 2009, 02:12 AM
Because Asians and latinos in the USA dont go that much far at university , they mostly prefer earning their life by settling businnesses (restaurents and co.) .

As for white americans (and not "native americans", because only indians are native americans , if not then black people are also "native americans" ) saying they dont benefit from affirmative action as often as black people is a lie .

You're kidding right? Asian-Americans are so over-represented in the U.S. universities that they are cutting down the % of Asian Americans allowed to enter. Even if they score higher than other minority groups.

AkademiQ
Feb 23rd, 2009, 02:31 AM
Well ur "sources" are obviously FUCKED!!! And its not like either Venus or Serena have ever done anything for poor black people :rolleyes:

Venus hasn't. She didn't know Katrina was going on and didn't even know a thing about Obama. She's as anti-black as you come.

Rocketta
Feb 23rd, 2009, 03:50 AM
FACT!!! white females are the biggest benefactors of afirmative action

Isn't it funny how people pull shit out of their asses? :lol:

kris719
Feb 23rd, 2009, 03:55 AM
big difference: Peer was banned from Dubai i.e. she can't go there. The Williamses don't go to IW not because they can't but because they don't want to.

enough of this crap.

morningglory
Feb 23rd, 2009, 05:24 AM
As for white americans (and not "native americans", because only indians are native americans , if not then black people are also "native americans" ) saying they dont benefit from affirmative action as often as black people is a lie .

:rolleyes: That's what I meant by "native americans" I meant american indians :rolleyes:
How could white ppl get "affirmative" action? :spit:

Shooter
Feb 23rd, 2009, 06:06 AM
what did Andy say? According to the Boston Herald, Andy Roddick, the defending champion at Dubai, pulled out of the event due to the Peer incident.

Le Chat
Feb 23rd, 2009, 06:15 AM
Stereotype much?

Also, Asian-Americans are statistically overrepresented at US universities, and 42% of Asian Americans have college degrees, the highest level of any ethnic group in the U.S. Which is not to say they don't face discrimination and challenges, and there is of course tremendous diversity among different Asian ethnic groups, as well as 2nd, third and beyond generation being more likely to be college-degreed than recent immigrants.


OK i didnt know that they were over-represented at university and that a good thing .

But how do you know that they dont benefit from affirmation action as much as black people if they are over represented ? are there any figure ? .

Le Chat
Feb 23rd, 2009, 06:17 AM
:rolleyes: That's what I meant by "native americans" I meant american indians :rolleyes:
How could white ppl get "affirmative" action? :spit:


Because affirmative action is not for black people alone , but every ethnic group .:rolleyes:

morningglory
Feb 23rd, 2009, 08:00 AM
Because affirmative action is not for black people alone , but every ethnic group .:rolleyes:

Let me clarify. "Affirmative action" is based on the doctrine that current restoration to equality is not enough, but attempts to compensate for past discriminations must be made. In one supreme court justice's words: you cannot take a man, bind him, make him live like that, then afterwards make him run a race with others while believing that you have treated him fairly. Hence, affirmative action targets groups that have been discriminated. Blacks have received the most affirmative action because A) They are the biggest minority group in many areas and B) Slavery. The degree of discrimination has been more intense.

Whites as a race hence do not receive "affirmative" action, speaking in the strictest sense. (A white woman may still receive AA for her being female, etc. but not because of her race)

Londoner
Feb 23rd, 2009, 11:42 AM
Well it's all about double standards isn't it? Here you have a low ranked white Jew Shahar Peer and the media want Venus and Serena to support her. Why? The white women on the WTA have always been very envious and jealous of the Williams Sisters incredible success so no surprise they did not take a stand on Indiann Wells. Yet the WTA NEVER supports the Williams Sisters give me a break.

That's the stupidest and bitter sounding post I have ever read. It's also quite offensive too.

darrinbaker00
Feb 23rd, 2009, 12:13 PM
That's the stupidest and bitter sounding post I have ever read. It's also quite offensive too.
Unfortunately, my friend, that's par for Morrissey's course.