PDA

View Full Version : When we speak of best of this generation


DA FOREHAND
Feb 20th, 2009, 06:45 PM
What year do you think this generation started? I say it started in 97 with the rise of Hingis to the top ranking. Steffi was the last player from her generation to win a slam.:worship::worship:

Can another generation start before the descent of the players from the previous generation? In my mind this generation doesn't end until Venus and Serena are no longer winning slams. 97-?

your thoughts..

Volcana
Feb 20th, 2009, 06:56 PM
I don't think it breaks down in so even a way. 'Eras' in a way, are defined by personalities and accomplishments. To my mind, there have been four 'eras', in the Open Era.
1) King vs Court - overlapping from pre-Open era
2) Evert vs Navrtilova
3) Graf
4) After-Graf
The Williams sisters may own 'After Graf'' one day. Let's see in ten years.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:01 PM
I don't think it breaks down in so even a way. 'Eras' in a way, are defined by personalities and accomplishments. To my mind, there have been four 'eras', in the Open Era.
1) King vs Court - overlapping from pre-Open era
2) Evert vs Navrtilova
3) Graf
4) After-Graf
The Williams sisters may own 'After Graf'' one day. Let's see in ten years.

King vs Court
Navratilova vs Evert
Graf vs Navratilova.
Seles vs Graf
Gaf

May own? They are the last champions of their generation. Lindsay gone, Capriati gone, Henin, Kim.... Amelie is still in it, but she's hardly going to go on a tear and blaze through the tour.

shap_half
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:03 PM
May own? They are the last champions of their generation. Lindsay gone, Capriati gone, Henin, Kim.... Amelie is still in it, but she's hardly going to go on a tear and blaze through the tour.

What will the 4th "era" be called then? The Graf "era" is called the "Graf" era because no one comes close to her achievements and the mark she left on the sport. I don't think you can say that about Serena and/or Venus.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:09 PM
What will the 4th "era" be called then? The Graf "era" is called the "Graf" era because no one comes close to her achievements and the mark she left on the sport. I don't think you can say that about Serena and/or Venus.

by your definition, there's likey not to be another generation, as Steffi's accomplishments won't be surpassed in quite some time.

I think generations are defined by the best players passing the torch to the next group of top players displacing them from the top.

RenaSlam.
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Williams Era 1999-present

nokken
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Are you talking of the last generation?

Uranium
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM
I agree with 1997, the rise of Hingis, Venus came on the scene, Davenport won the Olympics the year before and was somewhat challenging for slams in 1997 and then 1998 and 1999 had Venus and Serena again and Davenport win slams, along with Hingis.

Volcana
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:14 PM
May own? They are the last champions of their generation. Lindsay gone, Capriati gone, Henin, Kim.... Amelie is still in it .....What if Hingis was the start of twenty-five years of players at a time winning five to ten slams? As if you always have a third 'dominant' players to split up the goodies.

If it goes like that, it isn't 'The Williams Era', it'll be called something like 'One Hundred Empresses'.

Suppose Henin comes back and wins five more slams?

The point is, you need some distance before you can see where things end. And the edges just aren't hard. What 'era' does Hingis belong in? Graf won her last slam after Hingis won her last. The whole of Hingis' slam-winning career is encompassed by Graf's.

Yet I would agree that Hingis was a nextgen player, relative to Graf.

Nicolás89
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
[/INDENT]The Williams sisters may own 'After Graf'' one day. Let's see in ten years.

I think it's going to be Serena alone.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:18 PM
What if Hingis was the start of twenty-five years of players at a time winning five to ten slams? As if you always have a third 'dominant' players to split up the goodies.

If it goes like that, it isn't 'The Williams Era', it'll be called something like 'One Hundred Empresses'.

Suppose Henin comes back and wins five more slams?

The point is, you need some distance before you can see where things end. And the edges just aren't hard. What 'era' does Hingis belong in? Graf won her last slam after Hingis won her last. The whole of Hingis' slam-winning career is encompassed by Graf's.

Yet I would agree that Hingis was a nextgen player, relative to Graf.

I never said, or meant to imply that this is the Williams era, just that they are the last of the great champions from this era.

Tennisstar86
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:23 PM
I never said, or meant to imply that this is the Williams era, just that they are the last of the great champions from this era.

it is the williams era though... in 100 years... this time period will be remembered for what? the most dominating siblings the tennis world has/ had ever seen. They dominated not only singles but also doubles.....yeah, Henin was in there, but she only got 7 and that will eventually fade away when you compare her with the "sister act."

For the person who said it will be "just" Serena....not likely.... Venus leads their head to head.... and with the way its going right now she will continue to lead it.

shap_half
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:24 PM
by your definition, there's likey not to be another generation, as Steffi's accomplishments won't be surpassed in quite some time.

I think generations are defined by the best players passing the torch to the next group of top players displacing them from the top.

Well Steffi's not playing anymore so she can't own a generation she's not in. I'm saying classifying this post-Graf generation is going to be difficult because there's not one set person who really dominated this time frame.

In my mind this generation doesn't end until Venus and Serena are no longer winning slams.

Question: you say that this generation won't end until S&V retire or stop winning slams. Does this not apply to Graf, who won her last slam in 99? Which would technically make Martina Hingis part of the Graf generation. Hingis was done winning slams when Graf won the French in 99.

Tennisstar86
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Well Steffi's not playing anymore so she can't own a generation she's not in. I'm saying classifying this post-Graf generation is going to be difficult because there's not one set person who really dominated this time frame.



Question: you say that this generation won't end until S&V retire or stop winning slams. Does this not apply to Graf, who won her last slam in 99? Which would technically make Martina Hingis part of the Graf generation. Hingis was done winning slams when Graf won the French in 99.

It depends on how much longer that play.... If Venus and Serena retire in 2012 still winning slams, which i suspect they will be then the new era hasnt started..... IF they retire soon and only have a couple more in them and Safina goes on to be this power player (i doubt) then you could say the "new" era started with Ivanovic winning the FO and Safina making 2 slam finals......

Hingis will be viewed as in a transition zone, kinda like Hewitt is. Pete was number 1 then Hewitt "dominated" got some slams was number 1 and then Federer came along. The difference of course being that Venus/ Serena didnt stay number 1 the whole time they have always been the "players to beat."

DA FOREHAND
Feb 20th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Well Steffi's not playing anymore so she can't own a generation she's not in. I'm saying classifying this post-Graf generation is going to be difficult because there's not one set person who really dominated this time frame.



Question: you say that this generation won't end until S&V retire or stop winning slams. Does this not apply to Graf, who won her last slam in 99? Which would technically make Martina Hingis part of the Graf generation. Hingis was done winning slams when Graf won the French in 99.

you can define it anyway you wish, that's your opinion. I'm saying a generation doesn't have to have a dominant player. It can be a crop of new players vying for the slams and the #1 ranking. I'd say Hingis's 97 def was the beginning of a new era. Steffi was the last and clearly the best of her generation.

Ellen Dawson
Feb 20th, 2009, 08:55 PM
When HIngis took control (and Steffi was injured more than ever) is when the new school started. Lindsay and Mary are part of both generations, I think.

Henpova
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:13 PM
I think you have to call era the Serena Venus and Justine era. I mean each player was the best for more then a year in it and No one of them every truly went away. But always one was the top dog.

I am I would say from 99 throw 01 Venus was on top
Then 02 it was Serena, and then Serena now.
Justine was the Top dog in 03 06 and 07

Also from 99 to now, there was no year that one of these girls did not win a Grand Slam

I just don't think it right to call it just the Williams era. When Justine won 7 slams in five years, was the Year end # 1 three time and won more non slam tittles then Venus or Serena.

Tennisstar86
Feb 20th, 2009, 09:26 PM
I think you have to call era the Serena Venus and Justine era. I mean each player was the best for more then a year in it and No one of them every truly went away. But always one was the top dog.

I am I would say from 99 throw 01 Venus was on top
Then 02 it was Serena, and then Serena now.
Justine was the Top dog in 03 06 and 07

Also from 99 to now, there was no year that one of these girls did not win a Grand Slam

I just don't think it right to call it just the Williams era. When Justine won 7 slams in five years, was the Year end # 1 three time and won more non slam tittles then Venus or Serena.

03 was the year of Serena still and the fall was "too bad Serena and Venus got injured"

06 was the year of Amelie.....
right or not in history this will be remember as the era of the williams sisters....

Henpova
Feb 20th, 2009, 10:16 PM
03 was the year of Serena still and the fall was "too bad Serena and Venus got injured"

06 was the year of Amelie.....
right or not in history this will be remember as the era of the williams sisters....

Really 03 was Serena year :rolleyes:, They both won two slams that year. Serena AO and Wim, and Justine FO and UO. The tie breaker is that Justine won 8 titles in 03 to Serena 4, and Justine finished the year #1 and Serena was #3. You don't know what would of happened if Vee and Ree did not get injured but they did and that last time I checked a year was 12 months not 6 months.

When it comes to 06 you can say Momo, but I think most tennis people would say it was Justine. Justine won 6 titles to Momos 4 and was at the finals of all four of the slams in a year, the first player to do that since Hingis. Also Justine Finished as year end #1 and Momo was #3.

My final point is that the ITF gave Justine the Player of the Year award, in both 03 and 06.

Tennisstar86
Feb 21st, 2009, 01:29 AM
Really 03 was Serena year :rolleyes:, They both won two slams that year. Serena AO and Wim, and Justine FO and UO. The tie breaker is that Justine won 8 titles in 03 to Serena 4, and Justine finished the year #1 and Serena was #3. You don't know what would of happened if Vee and Ree did not get injured but they did and that last time I checked a year was 12 months not 6 months.

When it comes to 06 you can say Momo, but I think most tennis people would say it was Justine. Justine won 6 titles to Momos 4 and was at the finals of all four of the slams in a year, the first player to do that since Hingis. Also Justine Finished as year end #1 and Momo was #3.

My final point is that the ITF gave Justine the Player of the Year award, in both 03 and 06.

Where you watching tennis back then? Im assuming not, cause if you were you would know that 03' was more about the injuries that happened to the WS than what Justine was doing......

06' HA, Justine got 1 slam, Amelie 2 and thats what people will remember..... That Amelie finally had her breakthrough...

Didnt the ITF also give that award to Jelena?:tape:

Volcana
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:35 AM
I think that what we call a 'generation' in tennis isn't really defined until you're well into the next one. In 1992, the future of tennis looked far different than it turned out. In 1997, the future of tennis looked far different than it turned out.

Henpova
Feb 21st, 2009, 09:22 AM
Where you watching tennis back then? Im assuming not, cause if you were you would know that 03' was more about the injuries that happened to the WS than what Justine was doing......

06' HA, Justine got 1 slam, Amelie 2 and thats what people will remember..... That Amelie finally had her breakthrough...

Didnt the ITF also give that award to Jelena?:tape:

Yes I was watching tennis back then, and like I said you don't know what would of heppend if the sister did not get injured. Its like me saying the Justine would of won 3 more slams if she never got sick in 04. Its just stupid to bring up a what if.

Also most true tennis fans know that there is more to a season then just the slams. I am sure just sports fan in general would say 2 > 1 plan and simple. I just don't feel like a true tennis fan would go slams wins only. Yet i do think you can make a good case for Momo.

Also they did give that to Jelena and I will be the first to say I think Serena should of won, but it dose not negate that fact that Justine won a Slam each of those year, won five or more titles each year, and was the year end #1.

Last if you want to say it should be the Williams era just because you don't like Justine, then fine do that. I just think it sad that you can see the facts in back and white.

PizzaMan
Feb 21st, 2009, 11:05 AM
I think the current era started in 97 and will end when the Williams cease winning slams. And the era will be known as the "Williams Era", period. I don't even think that's disputable. Yes, Henin and to a lesser extent Hingis (maybe Maria if she wins a bit more) will be justifiably remembered as major personalities within that era, but the era will be named after the Williams, and it'll be primarily remembered for the Williams.

The Williams sisters are unique to tennis, and maybe unique in all sports. We've not seen a sibling combination dominate a sport like this before, and won't again in our lives, and I think some are under appreciating that. But the fact that two sisters dominated the sport will be remembered beyond any other aspect of this era. And racial factors only increase that remembrance. The Williams' great success in doubles also adds to their "legend". They also changed the game (for good or ill). Finally, the Williams will have been around and competitive for the entire era, which adds to the justification to name the era after them. I don't think you can call an era the "Williams/Henin" era when Henin only played dominant tennis a few years within that era.

Justine will be remembered as a great player, but she won't have an era named after her.

I think that goes even for Serena. She can try to make the era just hers, but I don't see it happening. It'll still be the Williams era with her as the more dominant Williams. She'd have to win an awful lot to completely eliminate Venus from the picture. I don't think it's possible to eliminate a 5-time Wimby champ from the picture.

Lilowannabe
Feb 21st, 2009, 11:27 AM
I think the current era started in 97 and will end when the Williams cease winning slams. And the era will be known as the "Williams Era", period. I don't even think that's disputable. Yes, Henin and to a lesser extent Hingis (maybe Maria if she wins a bit more) will be justifiably remembered as major personalities within that era, but the era will be named after the Williams, and it'll be primarily remembered for the Williams.

The Williams sisters are unique to tennis, and maybe unique in all sports. We've not seen a sibling combination dominate a sport like this before, and won't again in our lives, and I think some are under appreciating that. But the fact that two sisters dominated the sport will be remembered beyond any other aspect of this era. And racial factors only increase that remembrance. The Williams' great success in doubles also adds to their "legend". They also changed the game (for good or ill). Finally, the Williams will have been around and competitive for the entire era, which adds to the justification to name the era after them. I don't think you can call an era the "Williams/Henin" era when Henin only played dominant tennis a few years within that era.

Justine will be remembered as a great player, but she won't have an era named after her.

I think that goes even for Serena. She can try to make the era just hers, but I don't see it happening. It'll still be the Williams era with her as the more dominant Williams. She'd have to win an awful lot to completely eliminate Venus from the picture. I don't think it's possible to eliminate a 5-time Wimby champ from the picture.

:worship: arguement closed lol. Totally agree, Justine was an outstanding player and her accomplishments on clay alone will secure her status in the history of the game. But the sisters have transcended sport, they raised the profile of tennis. While hardcore tennis fans will see this as a multi generation, the casual tennis fan (which is a far larger group) will only remember the williams domination. This will be cemented if the Williams are able to have another dominant year in 09, which looks very likely.

thrust
Feb 21st, 2009, 01:58 PM
I think you have to call era the Serena Venus and Justine era. I mean each player was the best for more then a year in it and No one of them every truly went away. But always one was the top dog.

I am I would say from 99 throw 01 Venus was on top
Then 02 it was Serena, and then Serena now.
Justine was the Top dog in 03 06 and 07

Also from 99 to now, there was no year that one of these girls did not win a Grand Slam

I just don't think it right to call it just the Williams era. When Justine won 7 slams in five years, was the Year end # 1 three time and won more non slam tittles then Venus or Serena.

GREAT POST!!

Pureracket
Feb 21st, 2009, 02:11 PM
I think it's going to be Serena alone.I'm inclined to agree. There is still a 2-3 year time period left where Serena can win everything in site. I suspect she wants to reach that magic number of 15 as far as Slams go. In my honest/humble opinion, that's becoming more and more evident in her non-Slam performances.

bandabou
Feb 21st, 2009, 03:19 PM
For the Juju-fans..I mean come on, so you really think that if Serena keeps winning and ends up with 12/13 majors..this won't be HER era?!? Be serious..