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chuvack
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:00 PM
You know, I realize that the people who moderate this website do not get paid for it and so I honestly don't want to offend anybody. And TBH I have no idea who is really in charge of this website or how the higherarchy of the management works. I just get the feeling that criticism of the website management (who ever this mysterious entities may be) is heavily frowned upon. But I have to speak up and say that during the Grand Slams, it becomes especailly notable how poorly and arbitrarily the GM forum is moderated, and this AO has been the worst condition that I have seen the GM. Inane, randomly titled threads clutter the GM board horribly, acting as (mostly, but not always, unintended) spam. I could go to the 1st 3 pages of GM right now and easily find 50 threads that I would deleat without a second thought if I were a mod. Any idiot can start any random, senseless thread, and as long as it is deemed not to be offensive, the mods will not touch it. Meanwhile, threads with legitamate content are locked, moved or deleted on the basis of arbitrary moderator whims. My request is, please, if you are going to aggresively moderate the content threads (your call as its your website) PLEASE try to moderate the CONTENT-LESS threads as well so that the GM forum stays readable. I think as a start it would be great if there were some kind of syntax or grammer standards for thread titles, at least during the heavy-use Grand Slam periods like currently. Thx for your attention (whoever "you" may be).

Fidello
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:08 PM
I agree. For a commercial forum such as this, it's unacceptable

Kart
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:39 PM
I just get the feeling that criticism of the website management (who ever this mysterious entities may be) is heavily frowned upon.
Not at all.

I don't have any problem with you having an opinion and stating it provided you can do so civilly and provide evidence to back it up.

However, I disagree on what is and isn't legitimate.

It is a General Messages forum - if posters are abusive or spam the forum then moderators intervene, but the rest of it is very much what you posters choose to make of it.

There is a wide variety of age, literacy, interests, cultural backgrounds, intentions etc amongst the posters on this site and policing you all to the point of how to spell, address one another, share an opinion etc is rather beyond a moderator's remit. There are no eligibility criteria for joining this forum so it is always going to have these attributes.

I would remind you that the threads you consider to be irrelevant would rapidly vanish off the screen if posters didn't reply to them and legitimate topics would not be deleted if posters addressed one another with respect - much unlike the two anti-Ivanovic threads I closed about and hour ago.

-Sonic-
Jan 23rd, 2009, 01:47 PM
I'll just have a look through the threads you've reported and see if I can clean them up.

Oh wait, you've reported 0.

If we deleted "50 threads from the first 3 pages of GM" as you think you'd be able to do, for every "thank you" there would be hundreds of complaints.

The staff here have to try to draw a line between what is stupid and yet acceptable, and what is stupid and unacceptable, what is for GM and what is not. The line is a grey one and there are overlaps, sometimes there are 5 mods online and sometimes there are not.

Unfortunately, if 1 thread is deleted that you think should have been deleted, there will be a percentage who will scream and shout and threaten all sorts. For every thread that is posted, there will be a percentage of people who think it should be trashed and will go crazy for every second it stays open.

One thing about the running of here is that it is NOT arbitrary. Mods & Admins discuss things constantly to try to please as many people as much of the time as possible, without breaking the rules.

You just basically saying "it sucks" helps no-one.

chuvack
Jan 23rd, 2009, 02:03 PM
Unfortunately, if 1 thread is deleted that you think should have been deleted, there will be a percentage who will scream and shout and threaten all sorts. For every thread that is posted, there will be a percentage of people who think it should be trashed and will go crazy for every second it stays open.




I think I am going against the grain in asking you to moderate MORE, not less. I think you've hit the point, which is that just because people scream and shout and threaten, does not mean that mods should be obeying the demands of such people. In fact quite the opposite, people who scream and shout and threaten are the exact ones who probably started the useless threads in the first place and should be deleated. "The squeaky wheel is the one to get fixed" is not the best formula for operating a quality message board.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:01 PM
i don't usually remark on this...but you do realise that you make threads which contribute to the "nonsense" in GM

ViennaCalling
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:17 PM
@OP: Could you use paragraphs next time? :help:

Kart
Jan 23rd, 2009, 04:25 PM
I think I am going against the grain in asking you to moderate MORE, not less.
No.

You are asking us to remove threads according to your 'arbitrary whims' whilst conveniently ignoring the demographics of the board members that I have clearly stated for you above.

Not everyone is starting threads that you consider 'content-less' to spam the forum and they have every right to post them in the General Messages forum.

Once again, I say to you: if no one is interested in those threads they wouldn't reply and the threads would rapidly disappear off the main page. Posters are quite able to demonstrate their lack of interest in topics in this effective, albeit passive, manner. I expect it would be quite effective if you collectively put your minds to it.

Lunaris
Jan 23rd, 2009, 05:31 PM
Just a question, you mentioned two anti-Ivanovic threads, I didn't read them, but were any actions taken against those who started them or spread their venom in them? Temporary suspension at least, not just a meaningless warning. If not then I ask why.

-Sonic-
Jan 23rd, 2009, 05:47 PM
Any sanctions given to any poster are only the business of the poster and the member(s) of staff giving the sanction.

As an aside, warnings are not meaningless.

dave1971
Jan 24th, 2009, 01:29 PM
In general it's an open forum and you have to take the bad with the good. Not everybody likes everybody else's threads, period. But I have noticed that during the Grand Slams, GM gets extremely messy and some extra moderation (moving and merging, rather than deleting, threads) might improve the situation.

Zamboni
Jan 24th, 2009, 03:50 PM
In general it's an open forum and you have to take the bad with the good. Not everybody likes everybody else's threads, period. But I have noticed that during the Grand Slams, GM gets extremely messy and some extra moderation (moving and merging, rather than deleting, threads) might improve the situation.
We do merge threads when necessary.
I believe we have merged at least 5 threads with the "AO fashion thread" for example, and when we see double result threads they are always merged as well.

The thing is, during Grand Slams there's just so much to discuss (results, predictions, other tennis news, etc) that GM will always be very full. I'm afraid there's no (realistic) way around this.

sammy01
Jan 25th, 2009, 05:17 PM
i just wish mods would get rid of useless threads, the fact that iszavay deliberately open a thread to prove you can open any pointless thread, and it was left open and actualy got replies shows that mods aren't doing their jobs. the thread was 'what time will serena wake up tomorrow', obviously a very important question and totaly worthy of a gm thread, well according to mods.

~CANUCK~
Jan 25th, 2009, 05:34 PM
i just wish mods would get rid of useless threads, the fact that iszavay deliberately open a thread to prove you can open any pointless thread, and it was left open and actualy got replies shows that mods aren't doing their jobs. the thread was 'what time will serena wake up tomorrow', obviously a very important question and totaly worthy of a gm thread, well according to mods.

Sammy you are still missing the point. You need to report it. If no one reports it and we don't happen to see it, then nothing is going to happen. We don't spend 24/7 on here, we have lives.

sammy01
Jan 25th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Sammy you are still missing the point. You need to report it. If no one reports it and we don't happen to see it, then nothing is going to happen. We don't spend 24/7 on here, we have lives.

im not going to go round reporting threads, i don't feel i should have to unless they are abusive, its the mods job to keep gm clean and have relevant threads in there. im totaly sick of the 'mods are busy, mods aren't on 24/7, mods dont spend forever in gm' lame ass excuse, because if i went and had a thread that discussed livescores in gm it would be moved before i could blink, funny that mods are always there to get rid of livescore threads but miss useless ones about crap :confused:.

Aaron.
Jan 25th, 2009, 07:46 PM
Sammy you are still missing the point. You need to report it. If no one reports it and we don't happen to see it, then nothing is going to happen. We don't spend 24/7 on here, we have lives. He thinks you guys dont have anything else better to do then Mod GM all day.
I dont understand why you all complain so much. If you dont like the thread dont visit it or just report it if you really need too. Its simple mods are doing their best and we are not 5 years old :shrug:

Yasmine
Jan 25th, 2009, 09:38 PM
im not going to go round reporting threads, i don't feel i should have to unless they are abusive, its the mods job to keep gm clean and have relevant threads in there. im totaly sick of the 'mods are busy, mods aren't on 24/7, mods dont spend forever in gm' lame ass excuse, because if i went and had a thread that discussed livescores in gm it would be moved before i could blink, funny that mods are always there to get rid of livescore threads but miss useless ones about crap :confused:.
Nope. It is EVERY POSTER'S responsibility to report threads that are abusive. For information, all the staff members are doing this in their sparetime as volunteers so it is understandable that they do not spend all the time they're on the board reading every thread and post. They were posters long before they became mods for most of them.

sammy01
Jan 25th, 2009, 10:13 PM
Nope. It is EVERY POSTER'S responsibility to report threads that are abusive. For information, all the staff members are doing this in their sparetime as volunteers so it is understandable that they do not spend all the time they're on the board reading every thread and post. They were posters long before they became mods for most of them.


i didn't disclaim this so why caps lock it? i just don't think its posters jobs to report needless threads its mods jobs to remove them, am i expecting too much maybe but then i don't think its a huge task. if i was a mod i would make a point of once a day checking the first couple of pages of gm to see if everything in there was gm worthy (15 mins max), thats all that is needed, if each mod did that once a day (or whenever free) then gm should be clear of needless threads, but maybe thats too simplistic.

~CANUCK~
Jan 25th, 2009, 10:51 PM
i didn't disclaim this so why caps lock it? i just don't think its posters jobs to report needless threads its mods jobs to remove them, am i expecting too much maybe but then i don't think its a huge task. if i was a mod i would make a point of once a day checking the first couple of pages of gm to see if everything in there was gm worthy (15 mins max), thats all that is needed, if each mod did that once a day (or whenever free) then gm should be clear of needless threads, but maybe thats too simplistic.

Do you honestly believe it would only take the 4 mods once a day to look at GM to have it clean all the time. You really have no idea how much work there is to this then. We would have to be on all day to keep GM clean the way you are asking. The amount of threads that get moved/deleted before you even know they exist would floor you. It is not as simple as just looking at GM once a day to keep it clean. I spend a few hours in their pretty much every day cleaning it up, but if something gets posted after I leave and another Mod doesn't come on for a few hours, and no one reports it, things will get missed. I don't understand why you are so against reporting things. We get the most ridiculous reports some times but you are not willing to report things that should be dealt with.

sammy01
Jan 25th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Do you honestly believe it would only take the 4 mods once a day to look at GM to have it clean all the time. You really have no idea how much work there is to this then. We would have to be on all day to keep GM clean the way you are asking. The amount of threads that get moved/deleted before you even know they exist would floor you. It is not as simple as just looking at GM once a day to keep it clean. I spend a few hours in their pretty much every day cleaning it up, but if something gets posted after I leave and another Mod doesn't come on for a few hours, and no one reports it, things will get missed. I don't understand why you are so against reporting things. We get the most ridiculous reports some times but you are not willing to report things that should be dealt with.

because you, i assume, get so many reports that waste your time, mine would only add to the work load even if valid.

i think frankly its both ways, i feel mods could clean up gm more, but i also feel there are certain posters who make threads for the sake of it. i think in my whole time on the board i've made about 10 to 15 gm threads theres some that do that in a day. i do feel that in my time here gm has gone downhill, the threads are becoming more obscure and less tennis related.

p.s 4 mods for a board this size covering gm isn't enough anyway i think thats rather obvious.

Kart
Jan 25th, 2009, 11:18 PM
im not going to go round reporting threads.
If you don't then you're not really in any position to complain I'm afraid.

Moderators are not going to go around reading every thread to find posts worth deleting either.

By all means criticise though if it makes you feel better.

You all collectively make GM what it is, you can apportion as much blame as you like to the moderation but they're not the ones starting the threads or responding to them.

Aaron.
Jan 25th, 2009, 11:27 PM
If GM is so offesnive dont visit it then.

Is it really that hard to avoid a thread if you think its not GM Material or whatever.

sammy01
Jan 25th, 2009, 11:41 PM
If you don't then you're not really in any position to complain I'm afraid.

Moderators are not going to go around reading every thread to find posts worth deleting either.

By all means criticise though if it makes you feel better.

You all collectively make GM what it is, you can apportion as much blame as you like to the moderation but they're not the ones starting the threads or responding to them.

well maybe i'll start reporting more threads then, but surely that will only be more work for mods?

btw it has nothing to do with feeling better, its because i want the board to be the best it can and be more enjoyable, something as a mod you should want and shouldn't be so dismissive of peoples complaints and/or suggestions.

whats obvious from me talking to several mods in this thread is they feel they don't have enough time to man GM, thus the simple solution is there should be more mods. if the current ones feel their time is stretched, maybe if the workload was spread around more it wouldn't be the case.

thats why we have a suggestions/bug/error reporting section to try and figure out if something could work smoother with the suggestions of members. so having seen at least a couple of threads not happy with GM lately in the bug section and mods feeling there doing the best they can, a solution has become clear a couple more mods are needed. im pretty sure there are 2 or 3 viable candidates.

Kart
Jan 26th, 2009, 12:02 AM
well maybe i'll start reporting more threads then, but surely that will only be more work for mods?

btw it has nothing to do with feeling better, its because i want the board to be the best it can and be more enjoyable, something as a mod you should want and shouldn't be so dismissive of peoples complaints and/or suggestions.

whats obvious from me talking to several mods in this thread is they feel they don't have enough time to man GM, thus the simple solution is there should be more mods. if the current ones feel their time is stretched, maybe if the workload was spread around more it wouldn't be the case.

thats why we have a suggestions/bug/error reporting section to try and figure out if something could work smoother with the suggestions of members. so having seen at least a couple of threads not happy with GM lately in the bug section and mods feeling there doing the best they can, a solution has become clear a couple more mods are needed. im pretty sure there are 2 or 3 viable candidates.
If you think I am dismissing you then believe me, you are mistaken. I was simply pointing out that if you (and other posters that have levelled criticisms at GM) ignore the system in place - ie. reporting posts - then it is illogical to argue that it is flawed and needs to be changed.

I take your points on board seriously but I am defensive of GM moderators because they take a lot of bashing in here for something that isn't their fault. The reality is that a minor number of posters complain about GM in this forum whilst a huge majority in GM reply to the troll threads as if they enjoy them and never complain about them.

In the last few months I've read accusations of fan base bias, abuse of power, lack of interest and various other comments that, when the relevant posters were challenged amounted to nothing more than bitter slander. So, though I reply to your comment, it's more of a general comment for the others reading it as well.

I disagree that appointing more moderators is going to solve the problem as quite simply no one agrees on what the problem is.

Is it that we should be sanctioning posters more aggressively ?
Is it that we should be moving more threads into other forums ?
Is it that we should be creating more subforums ?
Is it that we should be policing posters' language more aggressively ?
Is there a problem at all ? I mean a lot of posters seem quite disinterested in having the forum policed more judging by the way they create 'content-less' threads and reply to them repeatedly.
etc.

You say that GM has gone downhill in your time here but I would venture I've been on here a bit longer than you have and I've seen the number of complaints rise with the increase in the number of moderators.

So, put simply, we already tried that.

I hope that doesn't come across as dismissive as it's not meant to be.

sammy01
Jan 26th, 2009, 12:50 AM
^i think my main problem with GM is needless threads. as far as im concerned peoples language isn't a concern (i try not to swear but i do type the odd one) and sanctions are ok, but i feel having threads that promote either bashing of a certain player or needless mickey taking of something, surely only leads to more work for mods, as it these threads that people go round insulting each other or arguing in. maybe i spend too much time in GM but i can tell a mile off when a thread will turn into a complete bitch fest, in which people will just insult each others players ect and 75% of the time the thread is posted for such reactions.

i wouldn't dream, or to be honest, even want to post a thread about chakvetadze eating a hot dog or leaving an airport, yet these threads end up about certain players in GM. now there obviously not GM worthy and they will either waste front page space, or will end up in a fight as certain posters will post sarcastic remarks because the threads a waste of time, the original thread starters player will then be defended in the only way some know how, attacking others, and before you know it you have 5 or 6 reported posts from a thread that had it been posted in the players forum or moved there would have never even got past a page worth of responses.

btw i didn't say you dismissed me i just think there has been 3 or 4 threads on this subject the last few weeks, and the response from mods has been a stock set or predetermined answers to which the thread starter, im sure, feel short changed and unheard.

also i think 2 more mods wouldn't hurt and people may moan for 10 minutes but they will soon get over it. as for there being a rise in complaints even with more mods, that to me only backs up my theory GM has gone downhill as more people are complaining.

my last point is there is a bit of fan based bias by mods, i think with certain threads mods need to not think which player is involved in the thread, just think if this were a thread about say bondarenko would it be in GM, if your answer is no yet it would be yes if the thread was say about venus williams or sharapova, then yes this is biased mod'ing

Yasmine
Jan 26th, 2009, 06:47 AM
As many mentionned, we deal with a whole bunch of crap in here and what you see in GM is the tip of the iceberg, for a thread you see isn't deleted as you think it should you can consider there have been at least 3-4 that have been but that obviously you didn't see because they are gone.

It is our responsability to see it's not going out of line and act accordingly when we notice it (or when fellow posters point them out), but it is surely not our job to decide whether a thread is useful or not. Speaking for myself, I find the big majority of threads in GM uninteresting and pointless, but it's not a good enough reason to take them out.

iGOAT
Jan 26th, 2009, 07:31 AM
i just wish mods would get rid of useless threads, the fact that iszavay deliberately open a thread to prove you can open any pointless thread, and it was left open and actualy got replies shows that mods aren't doing their jobs. the thread was 'what time will serena wake up tomorrow', obviously a very important question and totaly worthy of a gm thread, well according to mods.
:haha: That was so funny :rolls:

~Eclipsed~
Jan 26th, 2009, 05:12 PM
i wouldn't dream, or to be honest, even want to post a thread about chakvetadze eating a hot dog or leaving an airport, yet these threads end up about certain players in GM. now there obviously not GM worthy and they will either waste front page space, or will end up in a fight as certain posters will post sarcastic remarks because the threads a waste of time, the original thread starters player will then be defended in the only way some know how, attacking others, and before you know it you have 5 or 6 reported posts from a thread that had it been posted in the players forum or moved there would have never even got past a page worth of responses.


Where do you see threads like that? I view GM a couple times a day and I never see threads like that, so yeah, you must be in there a lot. I feel sick to my stomach agreeing with Aaron, but he's right, simply overlook threads that you feel are pointless. Not every thread is going to meet your standards, so don't view it. Personally, I only glance at a lot of threads in GM and don't overanalyze their quality.

You've been given some thoughtful responses by the mods/admins in this thread, but I feel like you're not completely absorbing what they are saying. They do a nice job of cleaning up GM and managing other areas of this board. I don't think adding a couple more mods (since that's the only suggested change you made) would make a big difference in "your" standards of this board anyway. :shrug:

Kart
Jan 26th, 2009, 07:39 PM
^i think my main problem with GM is needless threads. as far as im concerned peoples language isn't a concern (i try not to swear but i do type the odd one) and sanctions are ok, but i feel having threads that promote either bashing of a certain player or needless mickey taking of something, surely only leads to more work for mods, as it these threads that people go round insulting each other or arguing in. maybe i spend too much time in GM but i can tell a mile off when a thread will turn into a complete bitch fest, in which people will just insult each others players ect and 75% of the time the thread is posted for such reactions.
You cannot delete a thread just because you don't like it or you think it will turn ugly. That is completely biased.

Well actually you can do it if you can justify it but often posters have to be given a chance to prove us wrong - and they do it sometimes. It's not always that predictable which makes us all err on the side of seeing a thread deteriorate before acting. I make no apology for that - you guys make the forum what it is.
i wouldn't dream, or to be honest, even want to post a thread about chakvetadze eating a hot dog or leaving an airport, yet these threads end up about certain players in GM. now there obviously not GM worthy and they will either waste front page space, or will end up in a fight as certain posters will post sarcastic remarks because the threads a waste of time, the original thread starters player will then be defended in the only way some know how, attacking others, and before you know it you have 5 or 6 reported posts from a thread that had it been posted in the players forum or moved there would have never even got past a page worth of responses.
The problem is that the players forums don't want these threads. We have tried to move threads in the past in this manner and we met resistance from posters in GM that their threads 'wouldn't be read by anybody' and posters in the players forums that their peaceful communities were being flooded with threads that no one read or commented on.
btw i didn't say you dismissed me i just think there has been 3 or 4 threads on this subject the last few weeks, and the response from mods has been a stock set or predetermined answers to which the thread starter, im sure, feel short changed and unheard.
Well, with all due respect, what exactly do you expect ? The same answers are given because the same questions are asked. There are over 50,000 members on this board and I can't name the number of times I read the same question asked in this forum mainly because posters can't be bothered to look up old threads and see their same questions or comments have been made before. This isn't a dig at you because I do try to answer these threads as much as I am able but unless you give me a new angle, I'm going to give you the same response. That isn't short changing anyone - quite simply posters can ask for an answer but that doesn't mean they're going to like the answer they get.
also i think 2 more mods wouldn't hurt and people may moan for 10 minutes but they will soon get over it. as for there being a rise in complaints even with more mods, that to me only backs up my theory GM has gone downhill as more people are complaining.
You're not giving me any evidence that increasing manpower will change anything. To be fair you can't without access to the moderator forum but like I said, I'm not going to support it until someone shows me how it will make a difference. By the way, appointing moderators is not as easy a task as you think it is - several of the posters that applied last time have been discovered to have multiple accounts or contravened other forum rules since their applications. Fortunately we didn't choose them but it's not inconceivable that we could have done and it have led to absolute disaster.
my last point is there is a bit of fan based bias by mods, i think with certain threads mods need to not think which player is involved in the thread, just think if this were a thread about say bondarenko would it be in GM, if your answer is no yet it would be yes if the thread was say about venus williams or sharapova, then yes this is biased mod'ing
Well that your opinion and you're entitled to it. I would point out that every decision that is made is open to criticism of bias in the moderator forum but then I've said that a hundred times in this forum before and no one seems to be interested so I won't try to change your mind.

-Sonic-
Jan 26th, 2009, 09:45 PM
As an aside, while we're sharing...

When you report a post, please don't say "how dare you allow this / you are evil if you keep this posted" and things to that effect.

If you are letting us know the post exists, it stands to reason that we are going to be unaware of it, especially if the post is 3 minutes old. Just because it is there at that moment, doesn't mean that it will be once we are aware of it.

Accusing us of all sorts won't make us respond quicker, and won't affect the outcome of whether the post remains or whether the poster is sanctioned.

sammy01
Jan 26th, 2009, 10:19 PM
kart - thanks for your replies i do appreciate it and im confident that mods do work hard. im only asking these questions/having this debate as i love this board and personaly do see ways it can be improved, maybe you disagree which is cool, but i think i and the mods are adult enough to talk them out even if they end up with nothing being done/changed.

maybe im abit miffed as i feel very little actual tennis talk goes on in GM, MTF although to me poor in terms of its non tennis sections, the GM is very tennis related. maybe this is down to the type of posters mens tennis attracts but there policing of GM does seem tighter.

i think i've gotten very frustrated lately about how wishy washy GM has become and i find myself responding to threads like 'venus curse, the yellow dress' ect as threads like this fill the board. i cling to posters like aceshigh, chrischorse ect who actualy post opinions on actual tennis related stuff. its probably not your fault as mods but i feel like expressing my opinion on it. thanks for listening anyway.

chuvack
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:35 PM
maybe im abit miffed as i feel very little actual tennis talk goes on in GM, MTF although to me poor in terms of its non tennis sections, the GM is very tennis related. maybe this is down to the type of posters mens tennis attracts but there policing of GM does seem tighter.




The mods at MTF do a good job at keeping their GM forum on topic. Over there, the culture of starting a thread just for the sake of doing so is really discouraged, in general threads are expected to have some content and contribute to a tennis dialog among the members. Here, where the mods are far more likely to throw up their hands in the air and say that nothing can be done, you continually get all of kinds of off-topic stuff thrown at you.

chuvack
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:42 PM
If GM is so offesnive dont visit it then.

Is it really that hard to avoid a thread if you think its not GM Material or whatever.



Yes, it is hard. It's supposed to be a board for relavant tennis disscussions. By your logic it is ok to pollute the GM with whatever trash, and the members should simply be forced to wade through all of that (since we all have so much free time, right?). When I open my email I don't want to look through 200 of spam messages before I find the message that I'm looking for. When I visit a topic-specialized, moderated message board it should be the same expectation.

chuvack
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:46 PM
I would remind you that the threads you consider to be irrelevant would rapidly vanish off the screen if posters didn't reply to them.




This is one of the weakest points of your argument of inaction. Of course you and I both know that for every idiot who starts a meaningless thread, there are 10 more who will reply to it. You can not treat moderating a message board like some kind of utopian paradise where content and non-content are treated equally.

Zamboni
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:50 PM
I think we've tried to explain this a million of times already, but lets try again.

1st: General Messages is called General Messages for a reason. It's a place where you can discuss pretty much everything, as long as it's related to the WTA Tour and not insulting to players or in other ways disobeying the forum rules.
We, as the moderator team, make clear choices to keep it that way. We don't want to move too much out of GM because we want it to stay a General forum.

2nd: You may find a lot of threads useless, but as Kart has pointed out, GM is what the posters make of it. Apparantly many people are interested in these "useless" threads.

3rd: I've had the last few days off work, and each day I have literally spent hours moderating this board. If you still feel GM is a mess and needs more moderating, I think it says more about your standards and the amount of moderating this board apparantly needs, than about the amount of moderating that is actually done.

Avid Merrion
Jan 27th, 2009, 02:04 PM
I've had the last few days off work, and each day I have literally spent hours moderating this board.

hours?! what's wrong with you Linda? apparently it should only take you a maximum of 15 minutes a day to moderate GM....:lol:

Zamboni
Jan 27th, 2009, 02:06 PM
hours?! what's wrong with you Linda? apparently it should only take you a maximum of 15 minutes a day to moderate GM....:lol:
Trust me, not during the Dokic-Kleybanova match and after Azarenka-S Williams:sobbing:

sammy01
Jan 27th, 2009, 04:10 PM
maybe policing the board would be quicker if you were tougher, if people knew creating mindless threads was against the rules and creating multiple threads on the same topic is against the rules. they seem to have it down on MTF but then they run a tighter ship.

the care free, be easy on posters attitude mods have in GM only leads to more work in the end. you give people an inch they will take a mile.

Kart
Jan 27th, 2009, 06:09 PM
The mods at MTF do a good job at keeping their GM forum on topic. Over there, the culture of starting a thread just for the sake of doing so is really discouraged, in general threads are expected to have some content and contribute to a tennis dialog among the members. Here, where the mods are far more likely to throw up their hands in the air and say that nothing can be done, you continually get all of kinds of off-topic stuff thrown at you.
This is not MTF and it's not trying to be. You can praise their moderators all day long and I would join you in that as I have a high opinion of them.

However, it will have no effect on any of us beyond that because this is a different forum on a different subject with different issues and a different GM.
Yes, it is hard. It's supposed to be a board for relavant tennis disscussions. By your logic it is ok to pollute the GM with whatever trash, and the members should simply be forced to wade through all of that (since we all have so much free time, right?). When I open my email I don't want to look through 200 of spam messages before I find the message that I'm looking for. When I visit a topic-specialized, moderated message board it should be the same expectation.
Your email analogy is irrelevant as this forum is not here for your enjoyment alone.
This is one of the weakest points of your argument of inaction. Of course you and I both know that for every idiot who starts a meaningless thread, there are 10 more who will reply to it. You can not treat moderating a message board like some kind of utopian paradise where content and non-content are treated equally.
Actually, by your definition, I can and I am. Frankly, as one of the forum administrators, what I think should be in GM to please me is completely irrelevant as well. Therein appears to lie a difference between our outlooks for this forum.

Incidentally, you have yet to provide me with any alternative solutions - other than a totally subjective assessment of what you think should be in GM. Before you reply though, read my posts above as I've already provided answers to the more common suggestions we hear all the time.

Post an original idea and I'll give you a respose.
maybe policing the board would be quicker if you were tougher, if people knew creating mindless threads was against the rules and creating multiple threads on the same topic is against the rules. they seem to have it down on MTF but then they run a tighter ship.

the care free, be easy on posters attitude mods have in GM only leads to more work in the end. you give people an inch they will take a mile.
Work is not the issue.

How we treat the posters is.

For example, I could ban posters for fighting without a second thought and not bother to listen to excuses (and believe you me, everyone has an excuse.)

Thereafter I would have to deal with a barrage of complaints of people's friends saying they'd been banned unfairly.

Still, I suppose I could just ban them all as well.

sammy01
Jan 27th, 2009, 06:19 PM
^again to me that shows an inability to mod properly, if you feel someone is deserving of a ban but don't because he/shes 'friends' will cause a fuss, then you aren't moderating fairly or productively.

in that case we should only ban people who don't have friends.

im sorry but if any mod feels someone deserves a ban but dosen't for fear of what other posters may think/will say they should not be a mod.

Kart
Jan 27th, 2009, 06:38 PM
*sigh*

You've focused on entirely the wrong part of the post.

The point was that we don't ban posters without a reason and without giving them a chance to defend themselves / modify their behaviour and accept the extra work it causes - including the cries of injustice when they do get banned because they've been given chances.

What their friends think is irrelevant.

sammy01
Jan 27th, 2009, 07:21 PM
*sigh*

You've focused on entirely the wrong part of the post.

The point was that we don't ban posters without a reason and without giving them a chance to defend themselves / modify their behaviour and accept the extra work it causes - including the cries of injustice when they do get banned because they've been given chances.

What their friends think is irrelevant.

at the end of the day if you feel someone is worthy of being banned and have gone through the proper channels, whatever someones friends say shouldn't even be an issue, so why bother saying about them complaining if 'What their friends think is irrelevant' :confused:

Yasmine
Jan 27th, 2009, 07:27 PM
People complain with having no idea of how hard the job of moderating can be tough and thankless.

Most people on this board do respect the work we carry out here. Sometimes they disagree with the rules or the decisions but they still respect us. Now I fail to see why we should try to justify ourselves any further on the topic while everything has been said, explained about a dozen times in this thread.

Zamboni
Jan 27th, 2009, 07:39 PM
I think we've now covered pretty much everything in this thread.
We've listened to all your complaints and we've offered our opinions and tried to explain why we take the actions we take (and why we don't take the actions we don't take).


Right now, the discussion is not leading us any further, we can't explain more than we've already done. Therefore I am closing this thread now.