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View Full Version : On-court coaching PLEASE SHARE YOUR VIEWS! IMPORTANT!


iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:18 AM
I just think it is SO stupid!!!!!! It goes against the whole concept of thinking for yourself in tennis. I know that sounds over-rated at first thought, but think about Hingis's losses in the French to Graf and Aussie to Capriati. How about Venus versus Jankovic is Stuttgart. They would have been so different with coaching. It's supposed to be for the fans but I HATE IT SO MUCH and from what I've heard everyone else does too. If people agree with me here, I may start a petition, but be honest, I want to know. PLEASE SAY, this is important to me!

SvetaKuzzy
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:23 AM
based on yesterday, it seems that if a player gets coaching and then loses the next point on the advice of the coach, they get really angry! another person to blame then...

Direwolf
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:44 AM
based on yesterday, it seems that if a player gets coaching and then loses the next point on the advice of the coach, they get really angry! another person to blame then...

atleast their not gonna hit themselves
like MikhaIl Y

saul1333
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:47 AM
ive only seen the lower ranked players use it and they usually dont listen. its funny to see the coach say things and the player doesnt even look like theyre listening.

Direwolf
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:47 AM
oh...

wont really matter really...
one side is going to win eventually...

but i would love on court teaching...
makes it more cleaner i hope...
i mean...the world number 1 is doing it
hahaha

kiwifan
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:50 AM
I've been playing tennis as long as I've been able to hold a racket and I could never respect a player who has to constantly stare at his coach between points.

I've played on tennis teams and don't have a problem with a coach yelling the standard, 'you've got to punch your volleys', 'play attacking tennis' or that kind of stuff every once in a while (I usually tuned out my coaches but then again, I wasn't paying them) but consulting between points about actual match strategy, where to serve, identifying opponent's weaknesses...

...gutless, bullshit.

juki
Jan 6th, 2009, 03:10 AM
I've never heard one coach give substantial feedback to the player, its usually just "be positive" or "go for your shots" or something else like that. Its not like a player will want to change shot techniques mid-match. I don't really think the coaching is having much affect on match outcomes, so if it somehow generates fan interest it might as well stay.

darrinbaker00
Jan 6th, 2009, 03:14 AM
I'm okay with it :shrug:
Of course you are. Your favorite player and her coach/dad are two of the biggest abusers of the no-coaching rule.

-VSR-
Jan 6th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Any player that needs their coach during a match to win it, isn't really all that great of a player afterall. Mentally weak.

Volcana
Jan 6th, 2009, 03:27 AM
If you need a coach to do your thinking for you, you aren't a tennis player. What separates tennis from other sports is that you have to do your own thinking.


But if you're hung up on the fairness issue, most players outside the top hundred can't afford to have a coach travel with them. Have much more of an advantage do the top players need? If they really ARE better, they shouldn't need coaching.

spencercarlos
Jan 6th, 2009, 03:39 AM
Any player that needs their coach during a match to win it, isn't really all that great of a player afterall. Mentally weak.
Yeah sometime you need it to lose it aka i saw live in Miami last year with Venus Kuznetsova :p pure gold!

SharapovaFan16
Jan 6th, 2009, 03:52 AM
Okay what about using a caddy on a golf course? Should that not be allowed? How is that any different? Just because someone is telling you what to do, helping you read the putt, giving you the correct yardage, you still have to go out an execute. Same way in tennis. Regardless of what someone tells you, you still have to go out there and execute. If you aren't doing that all the coaching in the world won't help you.

I don't see the big deal with it.

darrinbaker00
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:36 AM
No, I just don't see what it does to the players. I don't care if they use it or not. To me there's no effect :shrug:
You don't play tennis, do you?

rada
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:40 AM
Hate it

Shafanovic.
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:40 AM
What does it have to do with anything.

And plus the title says, "PLEASE SHARE YOUR VIEWS" and that's how I "VIEW" it.

kyk710
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:41 AM
I think that it is interesting being able to hear what the coaches say to their players, and to see if the player actually changes anything or just continues doing the same exact thing... But I also think that the mental/strategic side is a huge component of tennis and the best players figure out on their own how to win matches... But I don't think on court coaching is going to change the winners of the big tournaments, so I think I'm ok with it.

Shafanovic.
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:43 AM
It's my own opinion and I have a right to say I like it. Why bash me up over it?

I don't bash you up over liking Serena. If it's really that important to you.

It's shit. It shouldn't be allowed.

Now I'll delete the post on my fucking opinion.

Amalgamate
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:44 AM
It is of course fascinating to hear the coaches views on the opponents, but I absolutely despise on court coaching.

Shafanovic.
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:46 AM
Change the title to "Who disagrees with on court coaching" Obviously some people are hell bent on not having on court coaching and bash everyone up who says they like/doesn't mind on court coaching.

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:49 AM
Change the title to "Who disagrees with on court coaching" Obviously some people are hell bent on not having on court coaching and bash everyone up who says they like/doesn't mind on court coaching.
But I don't want to know who disagrees, I want to know what people think. Anyhow, with who disagrees people would still come in and say "I don't", defeating the purpose.

The thing I hate though is that people support on-court coaching cause it "stops illegal coaching" but thats bull. If Yuri Sharapov wants Maria to eat a banana he's not gonna come to the court to tell her that.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:50 AM
On court coaching is a waste of time - it's NOT for the fans when half the players are not speaking english with their coach and so you can't understand what is being said anyway. Players should be able to think for themselves. etc etc...

Shafanovic.
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:53 AM
But I don't want to know who disagrees, I want to know what people think. Anyhow, with who disagrees people would still come in and say "I don't", defeating the purpose.

The thing I hate though is that people support on-court coaching cause it "stops illegal coaching" but thats bull. If Yuri Sharapov wants Maria to eat a banana he's not gonna come to the court to tell her that.

Some people don't and if they don't have the same opinion as the other person they start bashing them up.

fufuqifuqishahah
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:56 AM
just as long as on-court coaching doesn't infiltrate the grand slams it'll be okay. if it does, DOWN WITH WHO EVER THINKS ITS A GOOD IDEA.


a lot of people LOVE TENNIS because of the ability for people to figure out things on their own. whoever advocated for oncourt coaching in the tennis elite needs some help, especially when trying to push the idea that "it's good for the fans". The fans could give a rats ass.

fans love to see players breakdown, jelena dokic talk to herself like she's some crazy bitch, jelena jankovic constantly looking at her box, and have serena coach herself with those little notes.

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:05 AM
On court coaching is a waste of time - it's NOT for the fans when half the players are not speaking english with their coach and so you can't understand what is being said anyway. Players should be able to think for themselves. etc etc...
:worship: exactly my view. I don't even care if they're talking English, it's not interesting!

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:07 AM
On court coaching is a waste of time - it's NOT for the fans when half the players are not speaking english with their coach and so you can't understand what is being said anyway. Players should be able to think for themselves. etc etc...
:worship: exactly my view. I don't even care if they're talking English, it's not interesting!

LindsayRulz
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:09 AM
We have it in table tennis and I think there's also coaching in Badminton, most of the time it doesn't have much impact to the outcome of the match but sometimes it plays a huge role. When they first came up with the idea of on-court coaching in tennis (in 2006?) I thought, and I still think it was a good idea, especially for the women' side. It doesn't happen rarely that a girl crack under pressure or can't get her emotions together on the court and coaching, most of the time, can have an impact on the mental part of a player's game. And IMO, on the court you often forget what you and your coach talked about some part of the strategy to use, so coaching can also be a smart reminder of what you need to do. It's more frustrating to know after the match what you did wrong than during the match.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:11 AM
:worship: exactly my view. I don't even care if they're talking English, it's not interesting!
:lol: True - plus when you are at a match live it's not like you can hear what they are saying, and it's holding up the games more (I thought they wanted to stop that with limiting number of free medical timeouts and stuff during a calendar year) while you wait for the coach to get his/her ass onto court etc... blah.

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:16 AM
:lol: True - plus when you are at a match live it's not like you can hear what they are saying, and it's holding up the games more (I thought they wanted to stop that with limiting number of free medical timeouts and stuff during a calendar year) while you wait for the coach to get his/her ass onto court etc... blah.

Yeah. And when you're watching on TV they don't show what's been said until after the commercial break then you wanna see the match and instead you see a coach blabbing to the player RATHER THAN TENNIS :rolleyes:

We have it in table tennis and I think there's also coaching in Badminton, most of the time it doesn't have much impact to the outcome of the match but sometimes it plays a huge role. When they first came up with the idea of on-court coaching in tennis (in 2006?) I thought, and I still think it was a good idea, especially for the women' side. It doesn't happen rarely that a girl crack under pressure or can't get her emotions together on the court and coaching, most of the time, can have an impact on the mental part of a player's game. And IMO, on the court you often forget what you and your coach talked about some part of the strategy to use, so coaching can also be a smart reminder of what you need to do. It's more frustrating to know after the match what you did wrong than during the match.

That's exactly why I think there shouldn't be coaching. As a player you need to deal with that. That's the whole point.

Leo_DFP
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:20 AM
It's a disgrace to the sport. I hate hate hate it. Anyone who likes it... is not a true tennis fan, IMO.

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:22 AM
Its obviously BS. What i find even funnier is Jankobitch saying she doesnt want it cuz she likes to be independant....LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All that hoe does is talk to her coach during everymatch. thats bigger BS
Like that she says that but, yeah, she's not particularly independent. My all-time favorite was when her coach was timing Venus and they asked her about it at thend and she tried to cover up :lol: "Venus was taking soooo much time I just couldn't keep my rhythm" :lol:

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:22 AM
It's a disgrace to the sport. I hate hate hate it. Anyone who likes it... is not a true tennis fan, IMO.
I feel the same way...

drake3781
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:24 AM
We've done this topic thoroughly at least twice before. It's not so IMPORTANT!!

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:27 AM
We've done this topic thoroughly at least twice before. It's not so IMPORTANT!!
Wow you're dumb. It's because I might do a petition if you had read it :rolleyes:

Leo_DFP
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:35 AM
You should make a petition and mail it to the WTA offices in Florida.

I'll sign gladly.

LindsayRulz
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:45 AM
That's exactly why I think there shouldn't be coaching. As a player you need to deal with that. That's the whole point.

But it doesn't have a direct impact to the match, the player still has to do the job on it's own with or without the advices of it's coach during the match. :)

Anyways I think my opinion is biaised cause I practiced sports where on-court coaching has always been allowed. :p

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:48 AM
You should make a petition and mail it to the WTA offices in Florida.

I'll sign gladly.
Thanks! But how do I do it? :confused:

drake3781
Jan 6th, 2009, 06:31 AM
Wow you're dumb. It's because I might do a petition if you had read it :rolleyes:


No, :rolleyes: , you are overinvested here with over 100 posts per day since you joined at the end of December (as we know that your join date that is recorded is incorrect - it was end of December). And how many new threads? About three per day?

And you are "dumb" if you think a petition is going to have any effect. How about get out of the house for a while, meet some friends, go running, take an overnight trip, sign up for some classes, take up a hobby?

iGOAT
Jan 6th, 2009, 06:36 AM
No, :rolleyes: , you are overinvested here with over 100 posts per day since you joined at the end of December (as we know that your join date that is recorded is incorrect - it was end of December). And how many new threads? About three per day?

And you are "dumb" if you think a petition is going to have any effect. How about get out of the house for a while, meet some friends, go running, take an overnight trip, sign up for some classes, take up a hobby?
Oh, just mind you own life :rolleyes:

aussie_fan
Jan 6th, 2009, 06:45 AM
Okay what about using a caddy on a golf course? Should that not be allowed? How is that any different? Just because someone is telling you what to do, helping you read the putt, giving you the correct yardage, you still have to go out an execute. Same way in tennis. Regardless of what someone tells you, you still have to go out there and execute. If you aren't doing that all the coaching in the world won't help you.

I don't see the big deal with it.

That's one of the big reasons that tennis sepreates itself from any other sport, the individual factor and it's always been part of tennis. In golf, caddies have been always there as they carry the golf bag, that's the way golf is. You can't compare the two sports.

Anybody who belives this on-court coaching is acceptable or actually good, then they aren't real tennis fans because all they are watching is a bunch of uselss robots who have to rely on soemone's brain to play the game, which is not what tennis is.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Jan 6th, 2009, 08:19 AM
Every loss will be blamed on a coach, but who takes credit for a victory? The coach?! I see some ego clashes coming. Also, I see the coaches demanding more money! They'll deserve it if they become even more accountable for a win or loss due to good or to bad advice given during a match.

Coaches are a great help in preparation, but let the damn players battle it out all by their lonesome when it comes match play.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Jan 6th, 2009, 08:28 AM
But it doesn't have a direct impact to the match, the player still has to do the job on it's own with or without the advices of it's coach during the match. :)

Anyways I think my opinion is biaised cause I practiced sports where on-court coaching has always been allowed. :p

I can see where coaching is necessary in team sports where groups of people are having to work together to achieve a common goal, and they need someone to help them pull the different aspects of the team and strategy together. Golf? I'm not sure I consider that a sport.

However, reading your post reminds me that where coaching is allowed in tennis -- Fed Cup and Davis Cup and WTT? I don't believe it's been effective. It seems that what the players are told goes in one ear and out the other as they then do what they will anyway. Thank goodness the new WTA coaching is limited per set.

I read that during a broadcast the audio between coach and player will be there for TV viewers to hear! Can you imagine the coming abuse/cheating by coaching staff as they have team members watching the broadcast, and texting what is being said so the opposing coach can advise their own player. I wonder if the broadcasting of the coaching comments will also be on livestream! The whole concept is laughable.

Elisse
Jan 6th, 2009, 02:48 PM
I hate the on-court coaching! :o

To me it changes the game from being a head-to-head sport to being a team sport. Preparation, practice, tactics and all those sorts of things should be done before the match...and as soon as the match starts, that's when the players actually start earning their money....winning through skill, talent and hopefully with their brain too. By allowing the coaching....takes away that thought process. Also, I find it pretty unfair for players that don't (or can't afford) to travel with their coach and also players such as the Bondarenkos...calling down another player as their 'coach' turns a singles match into exactly the same thing as a doubles match!

Somethings I have noticed, and yeah it's been mentioned in here already.....how many of the players call their coach on court, but don't even bother to listen to them! :help: Sometimes, it seems only being done to break up the momentum of the game and time waste :o Another thing I noticed.....lol most of the coaches don't say anything more useful than the advice most 'intelligent' tennis fans could give!!! :lol: (Note: I said 'intelligent' tennis fans...not TennisForum members hahahahhahaha :lol: j/k :p ;) )

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 6th, 2009, 04:43 PM
safina's comebacks last year, serena's comebacks especially during GS matches where you thought she had lost, venus' comebacks, ana's comebacks....any player's comeback especially during a match on a GS/big stage would not mean nearly as much if they had a coach come down midway and tell them what to do...the beauty of all big stage comebacks was the way the players were able to regroup themselves, change tactics, and play winning tennis from a point where it looked like they weren't...when serena came back from 5-1 down in the 3rd set vs Kim: if it was due to richard coming and telling her what to do, while a win is a win, that AO victory wouldn't nearly be as sweet...

the fact that a player still has to go and execute isn't a way to show that it's a good idea: what happens when they player does execute?? is it still fair then??? it can't only be fair when the player doesn't execute cause the coaches advice didn't help anyways, but unfair once they execute...

what then would be the need to have previous coaching?? if all you have to do is come into a match and wait till your coach can come down and tell you what to do, why go through any pre match preparation...why scout out your opponents, know your opponents strengths/weaknesses when you can just wait till the match starts??

the lure of tennis is that players have to problem solve quickly AND by themselves...it's impressive to watch someone who realised they aren't winning at the back of the court start coming to net more...it's impressive to watch someone who realises their first serve is off, take something off of it and just try to get more in and as the confidence grows then go for more...it's impressive to watch someone in an error prone mode take something off their shots, stop going for the lines, and focus on getting a rhythm by just rallying...it's impressive to watch a power player through up a couple loopy shots to either get back in a point or because they realise their opponent can't handle it...

team sports need a coach in between to keep multiple people focused on a single goal...that is not the case with tennis...and while all the things i listed are impressive to watch does not necessarily happen in all cases, or does not produce a win for the said player, it does not take away from the sport...

sweetpeas
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:04 PM
Any player that needs their coach during a match to win it, isn't really all that great of a player afterall. Mentally weak.


Right on...Hate it....Who' said they can compelete ,the play? anyway! One must be able to do it.

Demska
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:04 PM
Any player that needs their coach during a match to win it, isn't really all that great of a player afterall. Mentally weak.


Right on...Hate it....Who' said they can compelete ,the play? anyway! One must be able to do it.

:lol::tape::cool::):wavey:

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:26 PM
firstly people who like on court coaching or don't mind it shouldn't be labled 'not real tennis fans', what elitest shite some posters spew out, seriously grow up and leave the forum if you cant accept others opinions and have to attack their love of tennis.

secondly my view is i don't mind it at wta level, i don't want it at slams but im cool with it at any other tournament. it is intresting to hear what the coaches say and it does no harm. people on this board have such short memories, many things have changed tennis more dramaticaly than on court coaching, the use of metal in tennis racket frames, the introduction of the tie break, halk eye ect so the game you watch today is a far cry from what it once was. the reason its changed over the years, to please the fans and players and tennis will keep evolving to keep up with other sports and so it should.

as for the argument players should work things out for themselves, please, how many matches have you seen in the last 5 years where a players changed their gameplan to win a match, serena isn't going to serve and volley to turn round a match and ivanovic isn't going to slice her way out of a losing position. the oncourt coaching just keeps players focused and doing the right things, which can only be a good thing. matches turn round because players get tight, the losing player loose, the form of either player fluctuates. i can't even name a match where it was turned round by a player changing tactic since the days of hingis.

Leo_DFP
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:54 PM
firstly people who like on court coaching or don't mind it shouldn't be labled 'not real tennis fans', what elitest shite some posters spew out, seriously grow up and leave the forum if you cant accept others opinions and have to attack their love of tennis.

secondly my view is i don't mind it at wta level, i don't want it at slams but im cool with it at any other tournament. it is intresting to hear what the coaches say and it does no harm. people on this board have such short memories, many things have changed tennis more dramaticaly than on court coaching, the use of metal in tennis racket frames, the introduction of the tie break, halk eye ect so the game you watch today is a far cry from what it once was. the reason its changed over the years, to please the fans and players and tennis will keep evolving to keep up with other sports and so it should.

as for the argument players should work things out for themselves, please, how many matches have you seen in the last 5 years where a players changed their gameplan to win a match, serena isn't going to serve and volley to turn round a match and ivanovic isn't going to slice her way out of a losing position. the oncourt coaching just keeps players focused and doing the right things, which can only be a good thing. matches turn round because players get tight, the losing player loose, the form of either player fluctuates. i can't even name a match where it was turned round by a player changing tactic since the days of hingis.

:rolleyes:

They have to stay focused themselves. They have to do it themselves.

wally1
Jan 6th, 2009, 05:55 PM
as for the argument players should work things out for themselves, please, how many matches have you seen in the last 5 years where a players changed their gameplan to win a match, serena isn't going to serve and volley to turn round a match and ivanovic isn't going to slice her way out of a losing position. the oncourt coaching just keeps players focused and doing the right things, which can only be a good thing. matches turn round because players get tight, the losing player loose, the form of either player fluctuates. i can't even name a match where it was turned round by a player changing tactic since the days of hingis.I can't think of a case where a match has particularly changed after a player has called her coach, but maybe someone else can. The whole thing is absolutely pointless and adds nothing to the game. It's only effect is to make the women players look weak and brainless compared to the ATP who don't have it.

Dodoboy.
Jan 6th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Fuck it!

It is appalling!

serenus_2k8
Jan 6th, 2009, 06:20 PM
I think it might make it more interesting. Imagine a match - a SF for example, where both players and coaches are talking quickly trying to scramble some sort of plan together. When both players go back on court their desire to win and their focus will be very high meaning their will be higher quality IMO.

Also in early rounds the losing player will be more likely to fight to the wire rather than giving up if they can ''phone a friend'' by asking their coach on court. I dunno, I just like it :)

Will Richard be allowed to sit and chat to both WS? That would be quite funny if they all sat in a row at the change of ends :lol:

homogenius
Jan 6th, 2009, 06:28 PM
I can't think of a case where a match has particularly changed after a player has called her coach, but maybe someone else can. The whole thing is absolutely pointless and adds nothing to the game. It's only effect is to make the women players look weak and brainless compared to the ATP who don't have it.

Ckaky d. Bartoli 2-6 6-2 6-0 in Paris GDF SF.Marion talked to her dad/coach between 1rst and 2nd set and won only 2 more games after that :o

terjw
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:02 PM
I can't think of a case where a match has particularly changed after a player has called her coach, but maybe someone else can. The whole thing is absolutely pointless and adds nothing to the game. It's only effect is to make the women players look weak and brainless compared to the ATP who don't have it.

Nor can I - but that is as good a reason as any to get rid of some of the unenforcable rules about coaching. What I don't want to see with coaching though is breaks and timeouts for coaching. As a fan you just want the players to get on with it.

In Fed Cup and Davis Cup - full-blooded coaching is part of thre game. And no-one going to those matches gets upset about it - or even talks about how the coaching spoilt it for them or that the coach won the match and not the player.

Hopefully - some of the silly definitions of what constitutes coaching will in time get repealed or just not matter if coaching is allowed.

For example - a player simply getting factual information as to whether a ball was in or out in before making a challenge is just common sense in my book and it's just silly to call that coaching or say there's anything wrong with that unless you like the idea of a player losing a point not through tennis - but with a wrong call. Anyway - you don't have to be a coach to do that. And in fact ectra information is readily given by the chair umpires when asked.

And if we could get rid of the wails and whining everytime a player looks up for encouragement or is given encouragement from their box - that would be good.

ms. double fault
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:02 PM
i think it's stupid. the players are not twelve year-old kiddies and should know on themselves what to do on court. (and what i think is most ridiculous btw is the fact that the coach needs to wear a microphone..!! tennis is no talk show, dammit!!!!) but with or without on-court coaching, the players still have full responsibility of their performances on court.

so certain things in that department won't change anyway..
and if a certain ricardo sanchez really intends to be more involved in JJ's matches than he already is, he'd have to place his butt directly on the service line !! :lol:

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:03 PM
:rolleyes:

They have to stay focused themselves. They have to do it themselves.

eye rolling and they have to do it for themselves, what a convincing argument you make :help:

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:04 PM
I can't think of a case where a match has particularly changed after a player has called her coach, but maybe someone else can. The whole thing is absolutely pointless and adds nothing to the game. It's only effect is to make the women players look weak and brainless compared to the ATP who don't have it.

i've deffinately seen it help sveta, can't remember the exact matches but a couple of times having her coach on has unscrambled her brain.

terjw
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:16 PM
Okay what about using a caddy on a golf course? Should that not be allowed? How is that any different? Just because someone is telling you what to do, helping you read the putt, giving you the correct yardage, you still have to go out an execute. Same way in tennis. Regardless of what someone tells you, you still have to go out there and execute. If you aren't doing that all the coaching in the world won't help you.

I don't see the big deal with it.

I'm not sure I'd use that as an argument in favour of coaching. I think they've gone too far and there's too much involvement from the caddies - particularly in the women's game. I don't like it when the caddies tell the player exactly what angle to hit it when making a putt. Annika Sorenstam - the best woman golfer this decade - would maybe ask for advice and obviously got her yardages from her caddy - but worked out what to do herself.

With the women golfers - you'd find the caddies lining up the players before their drives and approach shots even. Ridiculous. And time consuming. I used to think - why don't they just hand over their clubs and let their caddies play for them.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:28 PM
It'd be nice to see the coaches commentate on their players matches to see what they're thinking, but On-Court Coaching is going to ruin tennis.

SharapovaFan16
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:36 PM
Okay let's get something straight, by on court coaching do we mean a coach actually coming down and having a chat with their player, or just from the designated box in the stands?

The only way I could agree with a coach actually coming down to talk with their player is if it were used as a "timeout" of sorts. 1 per player, per match. 2 minutes once your coach get's there. Then you would have to ban coaching from the box. Get strict with it.

You guys say coaching shouldn't be allowed because tennis is such an individual sport, but I ask you this who comes up with the game plan in practice?

Fidello
Jan 6th, 2009, 07:42 PM
whatever. I will still shuffling the TV channels during breaks

AndreConrad
Jan 6th, 2009, 08:16 PM
I can't think of a case where a match has particularly changed after a player has called her coach, but maybe someone else can. The whole thing is absolutely pointless and adds nothing to the game. It's only effect is to make the women players look weak and brainless compared to the ATP who don't have it.

The way it will change the game is that everyone will have equal opportunity to use coaching. Since no coaching was not successfully enforced only obnoxious players without regard to rules benefitted from it. Other than that I don't think coaching harms the game and since it equalizes the players I am for it. :shrug:

DA FOREHAND
Jan 6th, 2009, 08:20 PM
I just think it is SO stupid!!!!!! It goes against the whole concept of thinking for yourself in tennis. I know that sounds over-rated at first thought, but think about Hingis's losses in the French to Graf and Aussie to Capriati. How about Venus versus Jankovic is Stuttgart. They would have been so different with coaching. It's supposed to be for the fans but I HATE IT SO MUCH and from what I've heard everyone else does too. If people agree with me here, I may start a petition, but be honest, I want to know. PLEASE SAY, this is important to me!

HIngis lost the 99 French Open to a superior player, and she was outplayed. She lost the 97 French Final because she was outplayed.

I have no real feeling on oncourt coaching. I think it's interesting when they speak a language i understand to get some insgiht as to what the player and coach think is going on in the match.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 09:54 PM
The way it will change the game is that everyone will have equal opportunity to use coaching. Since no coaching was not successfully enforced only obnoxious players without regard to rules benefitted from it. Other than that I don't think coaching harms the game and since it equalizes the players I am for it. :shrug:
Actually, that's not entirely true. Some players can't afford to have travelling coaches, so while the opportunity is there, they may in fact not be able to use it, and this is not fair, as it's generally gonna be the lower ranked players who can't afford the coaches in the first place.

AndreConrad
Jan 6th, 2009, 09:58 PM
Actually, that's not entirely true. Some players can't afford to have travelling coaches, so while the opportunity is there, they may in fact not be able to use it, and this is not fair, as it's generally gonna be the lower ranked players who can't afford the coaches in the first place.

Agreed, however for those players the unfairness extends beyond the actual match. They don't benefit from the presence of the coach before and after the macth as well. I am not sure how to solve that.

The Dawntreader
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:00 PM
I have a split view about this and i'll tell you why:

1. From a bitchy, superficial perspective (:lol:), i kinda like the concept. Gives an insight via the coach into the player's head and their own thoughts personally about how the match is going. Without on-court coaching, it's really pure speculation how we think a player is feeling on court, and i think that adds a nice facet to the tour.

2. However my head says that it's a bit of a gimmick that can prove to be detrimental. Wjat i dont like about it is the advantage it could give a player. For example if a player is picking on an opponents weakness, and the other player is totally oblivious to it, the coach could come on and give them the advantage. The player could then change their tactics accordingly and win a match. It seems tainted then, because the players have their coaches doing the thinking for them. That just seems grossly unethical to me.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Its such a horrible idea..some players win their matches only because of the on-court coaching, their coaches winding up their opponents and taking fake injury time-outs :help:

The wta is just promoting this classless behaviour by granting on-court coaching, next they will allow coaches to throw snide remarks at their player's opponents to reduce their morals.

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:08 PM
i think the main reason for introducing it was, because as someone said earlier, they flick around channels during changeovers. this is obviously not what the wta want as theres always a chance you will find something else to watch. i think its the reason they have encouraged it during injury timeouts as even i as a hardened fan flick around during injury timeouts.

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:14 PM
nicoles just had her coach on and its just such good advice, he told her to believe in her serve think 'im going to serve an ace' when stepping up to serve. he also told her not to 'look for the easy out' when vesnina is attacking hit back crosscourt i.e don't go for huge dtl winners when pushed wide and to believe in herself and stay positive. shes just served a love game lol after the advice after dropping her last 2 service games.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:14 PM
Agreed, however for those players the unfairness extends beyond the actual match. They don't benefit from the presence of the coach before and after the macth as well. I am not sure how to solve that.
Yes, also true, but then why make is even more unfair for them?

Shafanovic.
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:16 PM
nicoles just had her coach on and its just such good advice, he told her to believe in her serve think 'im going to serve an ace' when stepping up to serve. he also told her not to 'look for the easy out' when vesnina is attacking hit back crosscourt i.e don't go for huge dtl winners when pushed wide and to believe in herself and stay positive. shes just served a love game lol after the advice after dropping her last 2 service games.

He said for her to believe in her serve, not take the easy way out and not to hit an ace.

He said to hit her first serve like her second serve. Take the pace off.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:17 PM
i think the main reason for introducing it was, because as someone said earlier, they flick around channels during changeovers. this is obviously not what the wta want as theres always a chance you will find something else to watch. i think its the reason they have encouraged it during injury timeouts as even i as a hardened fan flick around during injury timeouts.
I think alot of tv stations are still gonna go to ads at that time anyway (when a player is getting coaching advice) - why would they give up the chance for more $$ from advertisers? People are probably still gonna flick channels anyway, and it sucks and holds up the game for people who actually paid the money to go see it live.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:17 PM
i think the main reason for introducing it was, because as someone said earlier, they flick around channels during changeovers. this is obviously not what the wta want as theres always a chance you will find something else to watch. i think its the reason they have encouraged it during injury timeouts as even i as a hardened fan flick around during injury timeouts.

Good point.

The bottom line is always going to be to keep the viewer interested. And at the end of the day, it isn't going to change too many matches. It may help a few players to play a bit more sensibly. So maybe once in a while we just might even get a bit better tennis to watch. That's not really such a terrible thing, is it?

Tennis has made many more radical changes than this over years. Some of them were probably for the better some I'm not so sure about. But we have gotten to live with them all up to now and we will learn to live with this one too.

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:18 PM
He said for her to believe in her serve, not take the easy way out and not to hit an ace.

He said to hit her first serve like her second serve. Take the pace off.

really, i thought he said believe your going to hit an ace? why would he tell nicole to not go for her 1st serve its one of her main weapons?

Shafanovic.
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:21 PM
Yes but her serve hasn't worked today. I'm pretty positive he said hit it like a second serve. Because I can tell she took pace off of the serve

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:22 PM
I think alot of tv stations are still gonna go to ads at that time anyway (when a player is getting coaching advice) - why would they give up the chance for more $$ from advertisers? People are probably still gonna flick channels anyway, and it sucks and holds up the game for people who actually paid the money to go see it live.

coaching has to be done at the allotted change of end times or end of set, it dosen't delay matches. also british eurosport show adverts like every other change of ends.

adverts waste time to live watchers of tennis as the umpire will say stay seated untill i call time as the broadcasters are showing adverts, this happens a lot in america.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:26 PM
coaching has to be done at the allotted change of end times or end of set, it dosen't delay matches. also british eurosport show adverts like every other change of ends.

adverts waste time to live watchers of tennis as the umpire will say stay seated untill i call time as the broadcasters are showing adverts, this happens a lot in america.
uhh are they not allowed to call for a coach once at change of ends during a set? Sorry - seen it live at Rosmalen this year a few times - it DOES hold up the set, it takes longer for the coach to get down and back and talk to the player than the normal amount of time for a changeover. In Australia (where I am, and you too judging by your flag) they have always shown ads pretty much every change of end so :shrug:

wtf are you on about with that last bit? I have never seen that happen anywhere else in the world, but I haven't been to tennis in America, but that's just :weirdo: if the unpires say that. Never happened at AO/RG/Wimby?Auckland/Rosmalen/Hobart/Hopman CUp (well Ok that's on ABC here so maybe not relevant).

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:30 PM
uhh are they not allowed to call for a coach once at change of ends during a set? Sorry - seen it live at Rosmalen this year a few times - it DOES hold up the set, it takes longer for the coach to get down and back and talk to the player than the normal amount of time for a changeover. In Australia (where I am, and you too judging by your flag) they have always shown ads pretty much every change of end so :shrug:

wtf are you on about with that last bit? I have never seen that happen anywhere else in the world, but I haven't been to tennis in America, but that's just :weirdo: if the unpires say that. Never happened at AO/RG/Wimby?Auckland/Rosmalen/Hobart/Hopman CUp (well Ok that's on ABC here so maybe not relevant).

have you never heard umpires at the begining of matches say this is televised so i ask you to stay seated for commercial reasons untill i call time, as america wants to fill every second of the change over, it happens a lot.

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:39 PM
have you never heard umpires at the begining of matches say this is televised so i ask you to stay seated for commercial reasons untill i call time, as america wants to fill every second of the change over, it happens a lot.
No, as I just said, I have NEVER EVER at any of the tourneys I mentioned above heard an umpire say anything about a match being televised and to stay in your seats, so I guess it doesn;t actually happen "alot" at the tourneys I go to. Maybe it's just in America? I have never heard it said in Australia/NZ or Europe. :shrug: The only thing I hear the umpire say is for people to take their seats when time has been called and people are still assing around getting their seats and play is about to get underway. :shrug:

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:41 PM
please someone from america back me up :cries: lol

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:43 PM
as for the argument players should work things out for themselves, please, how many matches have you seen in the last 5 years where a players changed their gameplan to win a match, serena isn't going to serve and volley to turn round a match and ivanovic isn't going to slice her way out of a losing position. the oncourt coaching just keeps players focused and doing the right things, which can only be a good thing. matches turn round because players get tight, the losing player loose, the form of either player fluctuates. i can't even name a match where it was turned round by a player changing tactic since the days of hingis.

just because serena, or many others, won't be serving and volleying, doesn't mean they don't do something different....changing up your game can be as simple yet effective as taking some power off your shots and getting a rhythm especially if your opponent is simply feeding off your power...:rolleyes: most people, even on the ATP don't serve and volley simply because returners are so good these days...

and all players these days don't turn simply because someone gets tight...and you shouldn't need on court coaching to keep focused...that's a disgrace to the sport if you need someone out there to keep you focused...go play doubles or another sport...

you choose not to remember matches where people turned it around simply because your idea of "changing" seems to be doing so totally different: if a baseliner starts playing the net is your idea of changing tactics, so you wouldn't appreciate a serena, maria, venus, safina when they decide to stop "bashing", as you people like to call it, and go for a little less, which also classifies as changing tactics...

if you need a coach mid way to tell you to do that then go back to the practice courts, see a sports psychologists or something...what would the point of off court training be???

DutchieGirl
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:43 PM
As I just said PERHAPS IT IS ONLY IN AMERICA - I haven;t been to any tourneys in America. I have been to PLENTY in Europe and Aus/NZ and it NEVER has happened there before. :p

sammy01
Jan 6th, 2009, 10:48 PM
just because serena, or many others, won't be serving and volleying, doesn't mean they don't do something different....changing up your game can be as simple yet effective as taking some power off your shots and getting a rhythm especially if your opponent is simply feeding off your power...:rolleyes: most people, even on the ATP don't serve and volley simply because returners are so good these days...

and all players these days don't turn simply because someone gets tight...and you shouldn't need on court coaching to keep focused...that's a disgrace to the sport if you need someone out there to keep you focused...go play doubles or another sport...

you choose not to remember matches where people turned it around simply because your idea of "changing" seems to be doing so totally different: if a baseliner starts playing the net is your idea of changing tactics, so you wouldn't appreciate a serena, maria, venus, safina when they decide to stop "bashing", as you people like to call it, and go for a little less, which also classifies as changing tactics...

if you need a coach mid way to tell you to do that then go back to the practice courts, see a sports psychologists or something...what would the point of off court training be???

no im with you that players make subtle changes to try and turn matches around already of course, but having the oncourt coaching won't make serena suddenly serve and vollkey ect so wheres the harm, if a coach can remind a player to do the right things or maybe take some pace off and its a better match because of it, then why not?

Mattographer
Jan 6th, 2009, 11:23 PM
WTA is a professional circuit and it means those people need to think about strategies with themselves instead of asking their coach what they should do!

-NAJ-
Jan 7th, 2009, 12:09 AM
Is on-court coaching allowed on GS?

Chance
Jan 7th, 2009, 12:18 AM
on court coaching is only allowed in WTA tournaments not tournaments run by the ITF like Grand Slams.... could be wrong though...

-NAJ-
Jan 7th, 2009, 12:23 AM
Thanks

DutchieGirl
Jan 7th, 2009, 01:48 AM
No it's right - no on court coaching at GSs (or ITFs) - thank God. At least they will let the girls think for themselves in some tourneys. :p

iGOAT
Jan 7th, 2009, 02:04 AM
No it's right - no on court coaching at GSs (or ITFs) - thank God. At least they will let the girls think for themselves in some tourneys. :p
I've agreed with everything you've said :worship: Sorry sammy01, I've never heard that and I have been to tournaments in US often.

Black Mamba.
Jan 7th, 2009, 02:34 AM
I'm not a fan, but if you don't believe that players aren't already receiving "on-court" coaching you're sadly mistaken.

DA FOREHAND
Jan 7th, 2009, 03:40 AM
Okay let's get something straight, by on court coaching do we mean a coach actually coming down and having a chat with their player, or just from the designated box in the stands?

The only way I could agree with a coach actually coming down to talk with their player is if it were used as a "timeout" of sorts. 1 per player, per match. 2 minutes once your coach get's there. Then you would have to ban coaching from the box. Get strict with it.

You guys say coaching shouldn't be allowed because tennis is such an individual sport, but I ask you this who comes up with the game plan in practice?


LOL how ironic that a Sharapova fan would confuse coaching w/oncourt coaching..:tape::lol::lol::wavey:

iGOAT
Jan 7th, 2009, 05:37 AM
Poll added, please vote people! :)

AndreConrad
Jan 7th, 2009, 10:50 AM
I'm not a fan, but if you don't believe that players aren't already receiving "on-court" coaching you're sadly mistaken.

This is my point. Like it or not don't try to police something you proven you can't.

A'DAM
Jan 7th, 2009, 11:05 AM
I like it!

iGOAT
Jan 8th, 2009, 12:37 AM
bump

sammy01
Jan 8th, 2009, 12:42 AM
i think its clear to see that some players totaly ignore what their coaches tell them. peers coach said she had to be aggressive, and she was just arguing with him, hes totaly right but she is totaly having none of it. she will probably keep going through coaches untill she finds one that says 'run around like an idiot and just get the ball back' which will not get her anywhere.