PDA

View Full Version : Tipping ideas- 2009


ronim1
Oct 27th, 2008, 03:51 PM
Hello gamers
Please look at this link
http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=14315746&posted=1#post14315746

and post your thoughts

ma re
Oct 28th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I think that, besides your idea of having players guess the number of games in the final match and results used to resolve ties (which I think is good), it could be fun and possibly useful if we would have seeded players in every tournament. For instance, after every tournament top 4 players in the rankings are awarded seedings for the next tournament, which would mean an extra point for each of them before the first round. For the very first tournament of the next season, seeded could be those who finish this season as the top 4.

DarkchildSwiss
Oct 28th, 2008, 05:12 PM
I think that the tie-brake system suggested by ronim1 is fine. Other possible solutions could be that we count backwards meaning if several players have the same amount of points we compare how many points they received in F, SF, QF and so on or that the player wins who has the most correct picks.

ma re
Oct 28th, 2008, 06:42 PM
I think that the tie-brake system suggested by ronim1 is fine. Other possible solutions could be that we count backwards meaning if several players have the same amount of points we compare how many points they received in F, SF, QF and so on or that the player wins who has the most correct picks.

I think your first idea is great - counting backwards. It would be even easier than that suggested by ronim1 (not to mention compared to mine:lol:), cause in case of a tie we would simply state that the winner is the person who guessed the winner of finals. If they're still tied we'd compare how much points they've earned in semis, and if they're still tied we'd compare their points from quarters. I think it's a really great idea and would be very easy to implement it.

I'm not sure about the "number of correct picks" suggestion though, cause there's 31 match played during every tournament so it might be complicated.

DarkchildSwiss
Oct 28th, 2008, 08:04 PM
I think your first idea is great - counting backwards. It would be even easier than that suggested by ronim1 (not to mention compared to mine:lol:), cause in case of a tie we would simply state that the winner is the person who guessed the winner of finals. If they're still tied we'd compare how much points they've earned in semis, and if they're still tied we'd compare their points from quarters. I think it's a really great idea and would be very easy to implement it.

I'm not sure about the "number of correct picks" suggestion though, cause there's 31 match played during every tournament so it might be complicated.


I am happy that you like the idea with counting backwards which is also used in other games if I am right.

Concerning the "number of correct picks" it is not so difficult to calculate. Here is an example:

mare: 8 7 6 8 5 = 34

This would mean that you have would have 21 correct picks [8 (1 point per pick) +7 (1 point per pick) + 3 (2 points per pick) + 2 (4 points per pick) + 1 (5 points per pick)].

ma re
Oct 28th, 2008, 08:18 PM
You're right, it's not difficult, but counting backwards is still easier so I'd go with that unless it's forbiden to take rules from other games (in case that's one of such rules).

ronim1
Oct 29th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Darkchild's suggestion looks fine by me also, also the most correct picks. Actually, the later looks even more "fair", as it judges the player's ability throughout the whole tourney.

As a compromise, we can always use the counting backwards system as a tie brake for the other solution.

Of course I'm also in favour of giving seeds any kind of benefits. (I'm ranked 3rd :rolleyes: . I'm sure that darkchild will approve also as possible champion of this year.)

Bye the way, it's a pity we don't have an accumulation system, only a race.

ma re
Oct 29th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Bye the way, it's a pity we don't have an accumulation system, only a race.

Yes, but it would be too dificult since the number of points a player gets is diferent for almost every tournament (due to points earned for correct guesses).

It would be possible if we wouldn't count those points for rankings (if we would just count bonus points), but in that case only 8 players would get points from each tournament and the game would, I think, start to look too much like real tennis.

ronim1
Oct 30th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Yes, but it would be too dificult since the number of points a player gets is diferent for almost every tournament (due to points earned for correct guesses).

It would be possible if we wouldn't count those points for rankings (if we would just count bonus points), but in that case only 8 players would get points from each tournament and the game would, I think, start to look too much like real tennis.

The way to do this would be to use the "next off" according to weeks#, regardless of what has been a year before.
In the long run everything would sum up the right way.

ma re
Oct 30th, 2008, 01:48 PM
The way to do this would be to use the "next off" according to weeks#, regardless of what has been a year before.
In the long run everything would sum up the right way.

Not sure I follow - what do you mean by "next off"?

Another idea - maybe it would be good if we would allow only the top 30 from the rankings to play tier I and tier II tournaments, and only top 15 to play slams.

ronim1
Oct 30th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Not sure I follow - what do you mean by "next off"?

Another idea - maybe it would be good if we would allow only the top 30 from the rankings to play tier I and tier II tournaments, and only top 15 to play slams.

"next off"
example- week two rating list will show how many rating point each player had earned last year's week 3, and those points will be deleted in week three's rating;' before adding the new ones

Regarding to limit participants according to rating, I personally believe in "the more the merrier".
Also there are not too may players, so it will look a little sad.

What I do think should change is the possibility to participate in more than one tourney per week.
I think each week should be only one played, the on with the higest tier.

ma re
Oct 30th, 2008, 04:10 PM
"next off"
example- week two rating list will show how many rating point each player had earned last year's week 3, and those points will be deleted in week three's rating;' before adding the new ones

Regarding to limit participants according to rating, I personally believe in "the more the merrier".
Also there are not too may players, so it will look a little sad.

What I do think should change is the possibility to participate in more than one tourney per week.
I think each week should be only one played, the on with the higest tier.

Ah now I get what you meant - like, you only have a 52 week ranking so points earned prior to 52 weeks ago are erased; I like the idea! But rankings should be updated after every tournament, with no exceptions.

I agree that there's not too many players at the moment, but at times there's about 20 playing the same tournament which might be a lot for the moderator - don't know since I've never moderated a tournament. It could get complicated with all the new rules.

I also like your last idea - only tournament of the highest rank to be played each week, cause it's not easy to follow all the matches and make all the tipps if there's more than one tournament going on.

DarkchildSwiss
Oct 30th, 2008, 07:18 PM
zveeen updated the normal ramkings and the race weekly but then it stopped and only the race was updated. I think that the race is enough and that no picks should be deleted because next year there will be a totally different schedule.

From my point of view the highest tournament should be played and only one tournament per week.

Marco-Nicole
Oct 31st, 2008, 02:09 AM
Hello guys,

since I'm manager of Tipping I'm very pleased to view that the game is popular.
In my opinion I'll accept all your final decisions for the system but I want to take a my little final decision only for these points:

- there will be only Race
- there will be not points to defend

For any other question you can discuss by yourselves and then one of you send me pm or write here in bold the final decision, ok?

;):worship::wavey:

ronim1
Nov 2nd, 2008, 08:16 AM
I have no objections to Marco's statement about not playing the 56 weeks games.
( I'm not sure I understand the "only one race " statement.

Let me try so summarize the issues on hand

1) Tie brake-
Solution a: sending number of games prediction either by PM to manager ,or
posting them, posts cannot be repeated., or ma re's proposal, but I
think we all agree it's a bit too complicated
Solution b: counting number or correct picks throughout the whole tourney
Solution c: ma re's proposal, but I think we all agree it's a bit too complicated
2) Playing only one tourney each week- the highest tier.
I think we could also review the pointing system ( is this the right terminology?)
Maybe we should change this too . Example 1st round 1 point ,second 2 and so on, until SF and finals- just a thought.

Anyway, do you think we should post a poll on our recommendations?

Adrian.
Nov 2nd, 2008, 09:26 AM
Well, I loved the old style of tipping when zveeen was running it:weirdo:
OOP, Weekly Ranks and Race, 1 tournament a week...
And I also think there should be more people running the tournaments than only Marco:rolleyes:
:wavey:

ronim1
Nov 8th, 2008, 11:49 AM
I think there's another issue which should be discussed.
What are the rules of withdrawals.
Should we accept any kind of pick changes, as long as the match hasn't started?

ma re
Nov 8th, 2008, 12:42 PM
I think there's another issue which should be discussed.
What are the rules of withdrawals.
Should we accept any kind of pick changes, as long as the match hasn't started?

I think that should stay as it is.

But I got an idea regarding players missing picks for some days - maybe that should be penalized by taking away one point for each day missed?

And another idea. I don't think all tournament should receive same bonus points; not because of the playing field, but because of the number of matches. So, I'd keep current bonus points for all 32-player tournaments, but would make diferent bonus point distributions for tournaments with more players. For instance, if there's 3 rounds to play before quarters, winner of the tournament should win 160, finalist 120, semifinalists 80 and quarterfinalists 60 bonus points. If there are 4 rounds to play before quarters (like in slams or some of the biggest tournaments), winner should get 200, finalist 150, semifinalists 100 and quarterfinalists 75 points. Something like this should be employed because it's more dificult to win tournaments with more matches, since there's a greater chance of mistakes.

ronim1
Nov 9th, 2008, 10:49 AM
But I got an idea regarding players missing picks for some days - maybe that should be penalized by taking away one point for each day missed?

I think not getting points for missing picks is penalty enough.

Regarding points distribution- I'm not sure about your suggestion.
The more rounds there are in the tourney, the more points you can accumulate anyway, so why adding for bonuses?
But I wouldn't fight over your suggestion.
If the others like your Idea, it would be fine by me

ma re
Nov 9th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Regarding points distribution- I'm not sure about your suggestion.
The more rounds there are in the tourney, the more points you can accumulate anyway, so why adding for bonuses?

Simply because, the more matches there is, more chances to miss i.e. harder to win the tourney. Glad you don't object this, I think it might make things more interesting.

Marco-Nicole
Nov 10th, 2008, 12:40 AM
For me all your kind of final decisions are good and valid. So when you have decided the final solutions for 2009 season write me here in bold the official rules, ok? ;):wavey:
:worship::cool::p

ma re
Nov 10th, 2008, 08:23 AM
For me all your kind of final decisions are good and valid. So when you have decided the final solutions for 2009 season write me here in bold the official rules, ok? ;):wavey:
:worship::cool::p

No problem.

I think we should leave this thread open for the rest of the month (in case people come up with more ideas), and then "officially declare" rules for 2009, so that folks have enough time to learn them.

ma re
Nov 24th, 2008, 02:42 PM
So, among changes that no one objects to, are those of implementing tournament seedings and adding new bonus point distributions for tournaments with larger draws.

But, when it comes to resolving ties, we had 3 suggestions:

A) sending guesses of number of games played in the finals, along with prediction of the winner (with the faster poster winning in case of a tie)
B) comparing points won in each round counting backwards
C) counting correct picks made throughout the tournament

I did a small research and compared each of those in the example of this year's last tournament, in Quebec, and here's what I discovered:

solutions B and C wouldn't resolve all ties, even if we would include the rule of "higher rounds worth more" into sollution C. Check it out for yourself if you're not convinced. So I think we should go with A.

Of course, I think guesses of number of games in the finals should be posted publicly, along with a final tipp.

Any objections?

ma re
Nov 30th, 2008, 01:30 PM
So, end of the month has come, and I think it's time to make these new rules official. There aren't many of them, but they're sure to make the game even better and more fun.

Here they are:

1. Top four players from the latest rankings are seeded in a tournament and therefore receive 1 additional point each into their point count for that tournament, before matches start. Seeded for the first tournament of the year will be those who have finished 2008 at the top four places - DarkchildSwiss, savitri, ronim1 and Marco-Alize. If one of them doesen't participate in the first tournament, Vicmatibla will be seeded.

2. Only one tournament is played during the week, that with the highest tier category. For those weeks when 2 of the same category tournaments are played, a poll found here: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=14485672&posted=1#post14485672
will allow participants to choose which of the two will be played.

3. New bonus point distribution will take place in 2009, in addition to current bonus points.
- in tournaments where 2 rounds are played before quarterfinals, current bonus points will be awarded
- in tournaments where 3 rounds are played before quarterfinals, point distribution will be
W 160
F 120
SF 80
QF 60
- in tournaments where 4 rounds are played before quarterfinals, point distribution will be
W 200
F 150
SF 100
QF 75

4. A tie-breaker will be employed to resolve point ties at the end of tournaments. Each participant will, along with her/his prediction of the winner of a final match, send her/his prediction of the number of games played in the final match. Number should be typed next to a name of the predicted winner, before the match starts and posted in the tipping thread of that tournament. If, at the end of the tournament, two participants have equal number of total points, the one who was closer to correct number of games played in the finals will be awarded a place higher in the final rankings for that tournament, while the other one will be the next best ranked. In case participants are tied even after final's games are taken into account, the faster poster wins.

That's all when it comes to new rules, enjoy tipping in 2009!

ma re
Nov 30th, 2008, 04:50 PM
Folks, we have a problem! On several places in 2009 calendar, there are two tournaments with the same tier category played on the same week. Should we play both tournaments on those several occasions, or skip those weeks altogether?

DarkchildSwiss
Nov 30th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Hi ma re.

Thanks a lot for your ideas regarding tipping which I really like. In the meantime I updated the race for 2008. Concerning your point that there are weeks where several tournament in the same category are played, I would suggest that some weeks before we start a poll in the tipping section and everyone has the chance to vote for the tournament he/she wants and the tournament with the most votes is then chosen. How do you like this idea?

Bye

DCS

ma re
Nov 30th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Hi ma re.

Thanks a lot for your ideas regarding tipping which I really like. In the meantime I updated the race for 2008. Concerning your point that there are weeks where several tournament in the same category are played, I would suggest that some weeks before we start a poll in the tipping section and everyone has the chance to vote for the tournament he/she wants and the tournament with the most votes is then chosen. How do you like this idea?

Bye

DCS

Fine by me, but we could do that poll here (maybe in another thread) for all "problem weeks" before the season even starts?

Tournaments in question (in case we all agree on a poll) are:

January 4th Brisbane vs. Auckland
July 6th Budapest vs. Bastad
July 13th Palermo vs. Prague
July 20th Portoroz vs. Warsaw
September 14th Guangzhou vs. Quebec City
September 21st Seoul vs. Tashkent
October 12th Linz vs. Osaka

Marco-Nicole
Dec 31st, 2008, 05:54 PM
Thread for Brisbane's Tipping is now open. Since there are two rounds before quarter finals the rules for bonus points are the same of last year.

See you all in Brisbane and try to invite your forum's friends to our game :wavey:;):D

ma re
Jan 1st, 2009, 08:45 AM
Thread for Brisbane's Tipping is now open. Since there are two rounds before quarter finals the rules for bonus points are the same of last year.

See you all in Brisbane and try to invite your forum's friends to our game :wavey:;):D

Don't forget the seedings, and hope everybody remembers to post a tie-breaker for the finals. See ya:wavey:

DarkchildSwiss
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:06 PM
Hi.

I really miss the old times when the game was run by oooo86. Nowadays there is a lot of cheating going on and there is no justice. These are the reasons why the Australian Open will be my last tipping tournament although I really enjoyed playing this game, after having participated in 2 consecutive YECs and finishing 2008 as #1 but now it is my turn to leave. I wish you all good luck for the future and may the best one win.

@ Marco-Alize: I really appreciate your effort but you really have to be honest and give everyone the right number of points even though you do not always like it. I know that there was a 'fight' going on last year between bhebhe and you but it is only a game.

Bye

Adrian.
Jan 19th, 2009, 09:12 PM
Well, he forgot my points also often, last year:rolleyes:
I think you destroyed this game:mad:

ronim1
Jan 20th, 2009, 06:42 AM
Hi.

I really miss the old times when the game was run by oooo86. Nowadays there is a lot of cheating going on and there is no justice. These are the reasons why the Australian Open will be my last tipping tournament although I really enjoyed playing this game, after having participated in 2 consecutive YECs and finishing 2008 as #1 but now it is my turn to leave. I wish you all good luck for the future and may the best one win.

@ Marco-Alize: I really appreciate your effort but you really have to be honest and give everyone the right number of points even though you do not always like it. I know that there was a 'fight' going on last year between bhebhe and you but it is only a game.

Bye

DCS, it would be a great loss to this game if you would quit. I asked ma re if he would like to take over, so keep an eye on what's going on here, and maybe you could come back.

Hele.
Jan 28th, 2009, 09:49 AM
I don't care who will be manager, I just want that everything is fair to everyone. I remember how my first tournament in Montreal last year was great. I think that Montreal is example of tournament how we are expect(at least me). I can understand that Marco is buisy, but someone other can help him to managing or I don't what... I have some ideas to this game also. First about bounus point. Ok, if first 4th seeds are bye on some tournaments than first four players should recive bonus point, but on grand slams no one is bye and I think that on grand slam that rule is not fair. Second is about bounus points. My opinion is that for stronger tournaments should be more bounus points(like in every other game). It's really not interest to play when bounus points on challenger are same like tier I or II bounus points. Next idea is ranking that we have ranking and race. What is sence of playing tipping last year if that won't be counted. My fourth idea is that everyone can't play every tournament. I mean, what is sence of ranking then if everyone can play everything. And last idea is that we have doubles.

savitri
Feb 24th, 2009, 06:47 PM
I'm leaving too... :wavey:

DarkchildSwiss
Feb 25th, 2009, 09:12 PM
I'm leaving too... :wavey:

with you gone, the best two players of 2008 left the game. i wish you all the best.