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Kworb
Sep 29th, 2008, 11:38 AM
TP = Tournaments Played
TW = Tournaments Won
WL = Win/Loss Percentage
GS = Grand Slams Won


YEAR PLAYER TP TW WL GS
1975 Evert 22 16 0.929 2
1976 Evert 17 12 0.915 2
1977 Evert 15 11 0.934 1
1978 Navratilova 20 11 0.899 1
1979 Navratilova 23 10 0.880 1
1980 Evert 15 8 0.904 2
1981 Evert 15 9 0.923 1
1982 Navratilova 18 15 0.968 2
1983 Navratilova 17 16 0.989 3
1984 Navratilova 15 13 0.976 3
1985 Navratilova 17 12 0.944 2
1986 Navratilova 17 14 0.967 2
1987 Graf 13 11 0.974 1
1988 Graf 14 11 0.960 4
1989 Graf 16 14 0.977 3
1990 Graf 15 10 0.935 1
1991 Seles 16 10 0.925 3
1992 Seles 15 10 0.933 3
1993 Graf 15 10 0.927 3
1994 Graf 13 7 0.906 1
1995 Graf 11 9 0.959 3
1996 Graf 11 7 0.931 3
1997 Hingis 17 12 0.934 3
1998 Davenport 21 6 0.821 1
1999 Hingis 20 7 0.845 1
2000 Hingis 20 9 0.885 0
2001 Davenport 17 7 0.873 0
2002 S. Williams 13 8 0.918 3
2003 Henin 18 8 0.872 2
2004 Davenport 17 7 0.875 0
2005 Davenport 16 6 0.857 0
2006 Henin 13 6 0.882 1
2007 Henin 14 10 0.940 2
2008 Jankovic 22 4 0.773 0
2009 S. Williams 16 3 0.806 2
2010 Wozniacki 22 6 0.785 0
2011 Wozniacki 22 6 0.788 0

Dave.
Sep 29th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Navratilova in 83 :bowdown: 0.989 is insane and 16/17 tournaments won, just 1 loss the entire season. Her other years are great too.

Lindsay :kiss: Very healthy numbers from all these players, as they would have to be to finish at no.1.

enchantrezz
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Interesting :)
Hingis and Davenport were the only players to end as rank 1 without winning a GS.

ElusiveChanteuse
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:37 PM
Looking at these stats, Serena would be a very deserving #1 among the 3 of them but compared to the others, she'd still pale in comparison especially on title counts since she has like 4 and the previous #1s had at least 6 titles.;) Thank god her W/L record is pretty decent.:)

-Sonic-
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I guess there is still time for the potentials to add to their title count, but this is a bit of a freakish year...

Does it mean that the improved depth has meant no-one has dominated as in previous years?

Jankovic & Safina's number of tournaments played will be comparable to Hingis and Davenport in the past.

M&M
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:47 PM
steffi really didn't play a lot to become number one in da world... :)

Dave.
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Interesting :)
Hingis and Davenport were the only players to end as rank 1 without winning a GS.

Yes, what a distinguished pair too. Let's hope they remain the only two come this November. :tape:

Ben.
Sep 29th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Great stats :yeah:

Renalicious
Sep 29th, 2008, 01:16 PM
It looks like Serena is the only deserving one...but I think she still has to win at least 1 more title.

doni1212
Sep 29th, 2008, 01:18 PM
She will, ;)

PLP
Sep 29th, 2008, 01:22 PM
It looks like Serena is the only deserving one...but I think she still has to win at least 1 more title.

I agree with that, it would be strange for a #1 to end the year with less than an 82% (and w/o a slam) ratio considering that is the lowest in the open era (still great though)

LeRoy.
Sep 29th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Navratilova in 1983 :eek:

Serena please end the year ranked # 1 :help:

Kworb
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:25 AM
Jelena does kind of stick out like a sore thumb with her 22 tournaments played (most since Martina in '79), least number of tournaments won and worst W/L percentage. You can do better next year, Jelena. :hearts:

Miss Atomic Bomb
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:33 AM
2002 :hearts:

Jelena has the worst ever record :spit: what a joke

Dave.
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:36 AM
Kworb i thought you were one of the ones who stuck up for Jankovic's no.1? :o


Her stats to stand out but just look at who she is being compared with. These aren't just slam champs, they are out and out tennis legends.

Kworb
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:40 AM
Kworb i thought you were one of the ones who stuck up for Jankovic's no.1? :o


Her stats to stand out but just look at who she is being compared with. These aren't just slam champs, they are out and out tennis legends.

Yes I stick up for her, just by making this list she is now one of the legends, doesn't matter how she got there. :hearts:

RenaSlam.
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:45 AM
Yes I stick up for her, just by making this list she is now one of the legends, doesn't matter how she got there. :hearts:

:spit:

And with one post, all the credibility Kworb ever had (which was very little) has now completely gone out the window.

Uranium
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:48 AM
:spit:

And with one post, all the credibility Kworb ever had (which was very little) has now completely gone out the window.

:lol:

Optima
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:57 AM
Janka :hearts:

Martina, Serena, Lindsay, Justine :yeah:

simonsaystennis
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:59 AM
:spit:

And with one post, all the credibility Kworb ever had (which was very little) has now completely gone out the window.

I wouldn't go that far, but I do disagree with what Kworb is saying. Doesn't matter how she got there? I mean come on, look at her percentage of wins! It just shows how quantity over quality prevailed this year. I'm not saying Jelena didn't play extremely good tennis for parts of the year, but overall she didn't have a dominant winning percentage that a number one player should have. Just by making the list doesn't mean anything in terms of being a legend. Players like Pierce, Capriati, and Venus are definitely more of a legend than Jelena because quite frankly, Jelena isn't one. Yet. She could be, but it all depends on if she can win a Slam or at least the Year end Championships, and play consistent, dominant tennis throughout '09 and the rest of her career.

Tennisstar86
Dec 28th, 2008, 04:16 AM
Its doesnt even just stick out that Jelena is the low, shes a full 100th lower than everybody else.... so sad....

Tennisstar86
Dec 28th, 2008, 04:22 AM
Yes I stick up for her, just by making this list she is now one of the legends, doesn't matter how she got there. :hearts:

Jankovic is not a legend :haha:


anyways I always thought year end #1 was a bit overrated..... you get to #1 based on a your previous year of work....being number 1 in december is no different that being number 1 in april etc....

Optima
Dec 28th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Now children...
listen up.

We have been over this.

Write "blame it on the ranking system" on the test or it will be

COUNTED WRONG.

:help:

:smash:

We have been over this a million and a half times.

duhcity
Dec 28th, 2008, 05:29 AM
I wouldn't go that far, but I do disagree with what Kworb is saying. Doesn't matter how she got there? I mean come on, look at her percentage of wins! It just shows how quantity over quality prevailed this year. I'm not saying Jelena didn't play extremely good tennis for parts of the year, but overall she didn't have a dominant winning percentage that a number one player should have. Just by making the list doesn't mean anything in terms of being a legend. Players like Pierce, Capriati, and Venus are definitely more of a legend than Jelena because quite frankly, Jelena isn't one. Yet. She could be, but it all depends on if she can win a Slam or at least the Year end Championships, and play consistent, dominant tennis throughout '09 and the rest of her career.


All she needed to do was be the best throughout the year, which she was.
Serena definetly could have ended this year number 1 if she had pushed herself a little harder and played 1 or 2 more tournaments. She didnt. Thus she did not deserve number 1.

fufuqifuqishahah
Dec 28th, 2008, 06:55 AM
Jelena :worship:

TiraTira!!
Dec 28th, 2008, 08:37 AM
Yes I stick up for her, just by making this list she is now one of the legends, doesn't matter how she got there. :hearts:
:rolleyes: are you serious???:eek: not yet,but I think that she will get there someday..

terjw
Dec 28th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Jankovic is not a legend :haha:


anyways I always thought year end #1 was a bit overrated..... you get to #1 based on a your previous year of work....being number 1 in december is no different that being number 1 in april etc....

No - Jelena is not a legend. You have to do a lot more to make it to that exclusive class. Though I see no reason to laugh at her. She worked really hard for that YE #1.

I also agree that YE #1 is overrated. As you say - it's exactly the same as getting to #1 any other time of the year since it's a rolling 12 months - not a race. But getting to #1 at any time is still a great achievement.

I know Jelena herself is proud to have got the YE #1 and talks as if it's better than #1 at any time. Objectively I disagree with that - but I think she's every right to because:

She's achieved something which up to now only a few really elite players have managed to do. That's totally different from saying she's up in that group with the all time greats.
She set out after the USO to achieve YE #1 reckoning she'd need to win three titles to do it. And she did it.
She's actually said when she first got to #1 in the summer for one week - she didn't feel like the #1 then. She sort of got it by default as opposed to when she won a title to get it.
Rightly or wrongly - more is made of it than at any other time.

-VSR-
Dec 28th, 2008, 04:21 PM
One of these things are not like the other.

Tennisstar86
Dec 28th, 2008, 05:38 PM
No - Jelena is not a legend. You have to do a lot more to make it to that exclusive class. Though I see no reason to laugh at her. She worked really hard for that YE #1.

I also agree that YE #1 is overrated. As you say - it's exactly the same as getting to #1 any other time of the year since it's a rolling 12 months - not a race. But getting to #1 at any time is still a great achievement.

I know Jelena herself is proud to have got the YE #1 and talks as if it's better than #1 at any time. Objectively I disagree with that - but I think she's every right to because:

She's achieved something which up to now only a few really elite players have managed to do. That's totally different from saying she's up in that group with the all time greats.
She set out after the USO to achieve YE #1 reckoning she'd need to win three titles to do it. And she did it.
She's actually said when she first got to #1 in the summer for one week - she didn't feel like the #1 then. She sort of got it by default as opposed to when she won a title to get it.
Rightly or wrongly - more is made of it than at any other time.

I wasnt laughing at Jelena... I was laughing at Kworb praising her as a legend....

maya-serbia
Dec 28th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Here we goooo again.... :rolleyes:




Jelena #1 :worship:

Aaron.
Dec 28th, 2008, 08:49 PM
Jelena deserves her number one! I mean she really dominated top ten players this year :tape: and Won many big titles :tape:

mboyle
Dec 28th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Now children...
listen up.

We have been over this.

Write "blame it on the ranking system" on the test or it will be

COUNTED WRONG.

:help:

:smash:

We have been over this a million and a half times.

This is the truth. It isn't poor Jelena's fault. She is a good player, clearly one of the best five in the world in my opinion. And I mean, as has been said, there wasn't really a best player this year. No one won more than a single slam. Ivanovic collapsed after her win, Sharapova injured her shoulder, not her fault but no one else's either, Venus could have won the US Open but couldn't convert those set points against Serena, and Serena was a disaster in the fall.

I think Jankovic is as deserving as anyone else for the ranking because she went after it this fall, but that's not saying much. Honestly, I'd have preferred not to have awarded the no. 1 to anyone lol. But yeah, I think Jankovic should win a slam eventually but who knows.

BuTtErFrEnA
Dec 29th, 2008, 01:25 AM
lol nicely done kworb :yeah:

Inger67
Dec 29th, 2008, 04:29 AM
Hmm.. The only previous no.1 to have played more tournaments than JJ this year was Navratilova in 79'

JJ at 22 and Martina with 23. Interesting :) Not to mention Navratilova still won 10 of them with a slam.

Ahem.

Kworb
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:19 PM
Updated. Jankovic still has the worst W/L percentage for a year end #1.

sammy01
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:25 PM
just goes to show what a state the tour is in right now. no player before 2007 ever had a win loss ratio of below 82%, now 3 of the last 4 years it has been below 79%. the standards are just soo much lower these days.

Pops Maellard
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:25 PM
Navrat in '84 :worship:.

Pops Maellard
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:27 PM
Graf in '89 :worship:

Chaosm21
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:27 PM
Wozniacki was better than Jankovic:eek:

Soliloque
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:32 PM
At least, Jelena had a GS final.

Miracle Worker
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:36 PM
The last dominate player was Justine Henin. Even Serena wasn't able to dominate as Justine did. Henin retirement first gave us JJ (:hearts:) as number 1 and now Caroline Wozniacki... I blame Justine for current state in WTA.

Irute
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:36 PM
The title of the thread is incorrect. It is not an analysis of the #1, but the analysis of #1 in the context of the field they are playing that year. They are not winning or losing to themselves, if the field is strong then the wins are more distributed :shrug:. This is again a "sheep" attitude that wants to follow only one leader.

Soliloque
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:40 PM
The title of the thread is incorrect. It is not an analysis of the #1, but the analysis of #1 in the context of the field they are playing that year. They are not winning or losing to themselves, if the field is strong then the wins are more distributed :shrug:. This is again a "sheep" attitude that wants to follow only one leader.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltmnqeQrsW1qantido1_500.gif

mac47
Oct 28th, 2011, 12:49 PM
By every objective metric, Jankovic and Wozniacki had the three least impressive, weakest years by a YE #1 in the Open Era. They won the fewest tournaments (apart from the year when Serena only won 3, but two were slams). They won zero slams, and had the three lowest WL % years on the list.

Irute
Oct 28th, 2011, 01:00 PM
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltmnqeQrsW1qantido1_500.gif

Ask your neighborhood friendly drug dealer for some ibuprofen :confused:

Soliloque
Oct 28th, 2011, 01:02 PM
Ask your neighborhood friendly drug dealer for some ibuprofen :confused:

My head is pretty fine thanks. Plus, I'm allergic to ibuprofen. But thank you so much for caring :hearts:

ElusiveChanteuse
Oct 28th, 2011, 01:03 PM
and Caro also played the most events by a YE #1 ever with 23 events since Martina in '79.:lol:

Mynarco
Oct 28th, 2011, 01:52 PM
In retrospect, I am okay with Caro being YE#1 last year - Overall her Montreal title and tokyo-beijing run were impressive. But being the YE#1 this year :o

bandabou
Oct 28th, 2011, 02:12 PM
0 slams, lowest winning %..ouch! :lol:

LoveFifteen
Oct 28th, 2011, 02:18 PM
The decline of the WTA is indisputable. Numbers don't lie. :o

L'Enfant Sauvage
Oct 28th, 2011, 02:21 PM
I was actually expecting Caro's numbers(at least in W/L %) to measure up a little bit better than that, especially her 2010.

KBdoubleu
Oct 28th, 2011, 02:46 PM
0 slams, lowest winning %..ouch! :lol:

That would be Jankovic in '08 actually (though I would consider her year in '08 much better than Wozniacki's 2011).

spencercarlos
Oct 28th, 2011, 02:49 PM
At least in 2008 Sharapova played her peak at the Asutralian Open, she beat Jankovic, at Roland Garros it was peak Ivanovic who too Janokiv out, and at the Usopen hungry Serena beat her too. Those are by far .

Caro had no business losing to Na at the Australian Open, especially after serving for the match and having match point. Neither her loses to Cibulkova and Hantuchova at Wimbledon and Roland Garros.

Lets not even talk what followed after the Usopen, a dismal end of the season. Jankovic ended the year really strong in 2008.

And again in 2008 had way much better field than this year. Serena, Venus, Sharapova were slam winners.

Mistress of Evil
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:02 PM
Princess Karolina is making the most out of her career and talent :shrug: So good for her :yeah: This stats does not discredit her amazing achievements :dance:

sammy01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:05 PM
Princess Karolina is making the most out of her career and talent :shrug: So good for her :yeah: This stats does not discredit her amazing achievements :dance:

exactly, that poor win loss record includes her big titles at charleston and copenhagen the highlights of her year :worship:

pov
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:08 PM
Thanks for this. I don't care at all about a #1 not having won a major (in a way that's even a plus) but I do care lots about the overall W/L ratio. Seeing that Wozniacki has the 2nd lowest, makes me consider her the 2nd worst-performing player to be ranked #1.

pov
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:10 PM
. . 'course that also means I consider Henin a better performing #1 than Serena Williams.

Mistress of Evil
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:17 PM
exactly, that poor win loss record includes her big titles at charleston and copenhagen the highlights of her year :worship:

and New Haven, too!

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab210/_svetlio_/tennis/wmhwjn.gif

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:19 PM
0 slams, lowest winning %..ouch! :lol:


What do you think about your fave in 2008? Only 3 titles won :help:
At least Caro won a decent amount of titles.

pov
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Princess Karolina is making the most out of her career and talent :shrug: So good for her :yeah: This stats does not discredit her amazing achievements :dance:
I agree with that. The fact is that she's performed better overall than any other active player two years in a row.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:21 PM
exactly, that poor win loss record includes her big titles at charleston and copenhagen the highlights of her year :worship:


Maybe you missed it but no one is laughing about your jokes when you repeat them for 766768th time. :help:

theFutureisNow
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:24 PM
I agree with that. The fact is that she's performed better overall than any other active player two years in a row.

The fact is that she has not. Kvitova has unquestionably had a better year than her this year.

The real fact is that Wozniacki has had 2 of the 3 worst years ever for a year end #1.

Despite the protests of all the Caro fans, it isn't good for tennis to have such a mediocre #1.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:29 PM
The fact is that she has not. Kvitova has unquestionably had a better year than her this year.


Then why isn't she ahead in the rankings? :confused:

MakarovaFan
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:31 PM
What do you think about your fave in 2008? Only 3 titles won :help:
At least Caro won a decent amount of titles.

It was 4(which is just 2 less:rolleyes:) plus she made the SF of 3/4 GSs and reached a GS Final, on top of that she went on an awesome 3 week-3 title run in the fall to finalize her ascent to number 1

Soliloque
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:33 PM
Kvitova had a better year ? Lol. She lost 2 times in ITF and her HC record outdoors is terrible. She doesn't deserve to be number one either.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:34 PM
It was 4(which is just 2 less:rolleyes:) plus she made the SF of 3/4 GSs and reached a GS Final, on top of that she went on an awesome 3 week-3 title run in the fall to finalize her ascent to number 1


Oh, I was talking about Serena in 2009. Sorry :lol:

shap_half
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:36 PM
QUESTION: I think of all the slam winners this year, Kvitova is the only player with a legit claim to the YE #1 ranking, but how would that measure up against other YE #1s?

theFutureisNow
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:40 PM
Then why isn't she ahead in the rankings? :confused:

The rankings overvalue tier 2 wins. This isn't rocket science.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:40 PM
2002 :hearts:

Jelena has the worst ever record :spit: what a joke
teehee

pov
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:42 PM
The fact is that she has not. Kvitova has unquestionably had a better year than her this year.
I don't even know what to say to that. You're free to twist things to suit whatever outcome you like. For me, overall performance is best judged by the standard way - the accumulation of points.

sammy01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Then why isn't she ahead in the rankings? :confused:

if kvitova wins the YEC she will be just over 100 points behind caro, caro played 2 more tournaments than petra this year. do you really think petra couldn't have made up that 100 odd points if she had played a couple more tournaments?

again woz played more than kvitova that is why she is number 1.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:42 PM
The rankings overvalue tier 2 wins. This isn't rocket science.


You get 470 points for a Premier win, 900 for P5 and 1000 for PM and 2000 for a Slam. I respectfully disagree with your stupid rocket science.

I could make a joke about the value of Challengers but I resist since I want to keep this dicussion serious.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:46 PM
if kvitova wins the YEC she will be just over 100 points behind caro, caro played 2 more tournaments than petra this year. do you really think petra couldn't have made up that 100 odd points if she had played a couple more tournaments?

again woz played more than kvitova that is why she is number 1.


Only your best 16 tournaments count anyway. It's not Caro' fault or the ranking system's fault that Petra decided to play Challenger Events instead of real WTA tourneys.

MakarovaFan
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Kvitova had a better year ? Lol. She lost 2 times in ITF and her HC record outdoors is terrible. She doesn't deserve to be number one either.


Duh, she won a GRAND SLAM!!! That's really all that needs to be said, but incase you don't follow, she has also backed it up with 4 other titles, a GS QF, 6 finals and an additional PM SF plus atleast SF of YEC!! Caro's outdoor HC record is hardly better: 3 titles and 2 GS SFs but then 3,THREE!!! 1st Rd losses, 2 3rd losses and a 4Rd loss. Kvitova has 1 title, 1 SF,1 GS QF and then 1 1stRd loss,and 4 3rd losses

spencercarlos
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:48 PM
What do you think about your fave in 2008? Only 3 titles won :help:
At least Caro won a decent amount of titles.
Jankovic won 4 titles in 2008.

GS Record of Jelena in 2008 SF SF 4R RU + YEC SF this is notably better than GS Record Wozniacki 2011 SF 3R 4R SF + YEC R1 . Even with those two more MM events that Wozniacki won ...


But i can wait for your pushing response :oh:

SAISAI-GOAT
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:49 PM
so Woz had the lowest winning percentage of all time in 2010 and 2011 :eek:

Soliloque
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:50 PM
Duh, she won a GRAND SLAM!!! That's really all that needs to be said, but incase you don't follow, she has also backed it up with 4 other titles, a GS QF, 6 finals and an additional PM SF plus atleast SF of YEC!! Caro's outdoor HC record is hardly better: 3 titles and 2 GS SFs but then 3,THREE!!! 1st Rd losses, 2 3rd losses and a 4Rd loss. Kvitova has 1 title, 1 SF,1 GS QF and then 1 1stRd loss,and 4 3rd losses

I dislike both of them equally so no need to compare Kvitova with Caro. What I said about Petra is the truth, she lost two times in challengers, she had terrible results on American HC (IW, Miami, USO). Having for number one an erratic player who can lose matches on ITF level and win a GS in the span of three months is kinda bad too, as bad as having Wozniacki as number one.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Jankovic won 4 titles in 2008.

GS Record of Jelena in 2008 SF SF 4R RU + YEC SF this is notably better than GS Record Wozniacki 2011 SF 3R 4R SF + YEC R1 . Even with those two more MM events that Wozniacki won ...


But i can wait for your pushing response :oh:


See my post #66 in this thread :oh:
That should push all questions away :p


so Woz had the lowest winning percentage of all time in 2010 and 2011 :eek:


No?
Can you read the stats?

SAISAI-GOAT
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:53 PM
No?
Can you read the stats?

I did not see the Jankovic number because it is not align with the others :tape:

spencercarlos
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:54 PM
See my post #66 in this thread :oh:
That should push all questions away :p





No?
Can you read the stats?
:p :lol:

Bah i had expected some nonsense from you this time :devil:

theFutureisNow
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:55 PM
You get 470 points for a Premier win, 900 for P5 and 1000 for PM and 2000 for a Slam. I respectfully disagree with your stupid rocket science.

I could make a joke about the value of Challengers but I resist since I want to keep this dicussion serious.

The problem isn't that they get 470 points, but that you can count 5 of them in your rankings. Tier 2s have a clearly inferior level of competition. You can sometimes win one without facing a single top player.

A fairer system would require the top players to count all tier 1s in their rank, with only 2 tier 2s allowed to count. Tier 3s should not count at all for top players.

sammy01
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Only your best 16 tournaments count anyway. It's not Caro' fault or the ranking system's fault that Petra decided to play Challenger Events instead of real WTA tourneys.

and if petra played 2 more premiers, in which she would have had a bye in most likely, one match win in each would have given her the chance of finishing the year number 1. caro played more than petra hence ending the year number 1.

spencercarlos
Oct 28th, 2011, 04:59 PM
I did not see the Jankovic number because it is not align with the others :tape:
Still winning % means nothing, when you read that some ridiculous assumtions are made.

Henin 2007>Serena 2002 %. Despite 1 slam less by Justine.

Wozniacki had a better year in 2011 in comparisson to 2010 because of the winning %. So she actually improved this year. :lol: :tape:

If anything she regressed some.. but oh well..

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 05:02 PM
The problem isn't that they get 470 points, but that you can count 5 of them in your rankings. Tier 2s have a clearly inferior level of competition. You can sometimes win one without facing a single top player.

A fairer system would require the top players to count all tier 1s in their rank, with only 2 tier 2s allowed to count.


If you think that Tier I's are so much more important and have better fields this year...well Caro certainly did better than Petra in then since she pretty much s*cked in Miami, IW, Canada and Cincy while Caro won at least two of them.


and if petra played 2 more premiers, in which she would have had a bye in most likely, one match win in each would have given her the chance of finishing the year number 1. caro played more than petra hence ending the year number 1.


Petra also could have won her 1st round match at the US Open, which also would have gotten her exactly 100 points, but for some reason she wasn't able to do that.
You're grasping at straws.

sammy01
Oct 28th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Petra also could have won her 1st round match at the US Open, which also would have gotten her exactly 100 points, but for some reason she wasn't able to do that.
You're grasping at straws.

had kvitova entered 2 more premiers and got the 116 points she needed to be in with a chance of finishing number 1, but only won 2 or 3 matches in those to earn them, it would have actually pulled her year win/loss percentage down. but playing more is all that matters with the current ranking system.

theFutureisNow
Oct 28th, 2011, 05:36 PM
If you think that Tier I's are so much more important and have better fields this year...well Caro certainly did better than Petra in then since she pretty much s*cked in Miami, IW, Canada and Cincy while Caro won at least two of them.





Petra also could have won her 1st round match at the US Open, which also would have gotten her exactly 100 points, but for some reason she wasn't able to do that.
You're grasping at straws.

Under my much fairer system Caro actually still leads Petra, 6601 to 6001.

I'll make you a deal. If Petra loses the YEC, then I'll admit that Caro deserved to finish #1(barely :o). If Petra wins the YEC, then you have to admit that Kvitova definitely should have been the #1 player this year.

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 05:49 PM
Under my much fairer system Caro actually still leads Petra, 6601 to 6001.

I'll make you a deal. If Petra loses the YEC, then I'll admit that Caro deserved to finish #1(barely :o). If Petra wins the YEC, then you have to admit that Kvitova definitely should have been the #1 player this year.


If Kvitova wins the YEC, I will admit that Kvitova had the greatest year (i.e. winning the biggest tournaments).
The player who should be #1 is always the player who has collected the most ranking points.

Aramitz_II
Oct 28th, 2011, 05:51 PM
just goes to show what a state the tour is in right now. no player before 2007 ever had a win loss ratio of below 82%, now 3 of the last 4 years it has been below 79%. the standards are just soo much lower these days.


What a weird conclusion. The fact that the top have a much lover winning percentage is much more due to the opposite. The general level is much higher today. In Navratilova's days anything below top 10 was absolutely trash (except for floaters).

sammy01
Oct 28th, 2011, 05:54 PM
What a weird conclusion. The fact that the top have a much lover winning percentage is much more due to the opposite. The general level is much higher today. In Navratilova's days anything below top 10 was absolutely trash (except for floaters).

really, thats not what henin's 2007 record tells us is it. but then she was a great player playing great tennis, not playing loads of tournaments and picking up points anywhere possible. unless you are going to tell me the 'depth' is much more now than 4 years ago?

Aramitz_II
Oct 28th, 2011, 06:23 PM
really, thats not what henin's 2007 record tells us is it. but then she was a great player playing great tennis, not playing loads of tournaments and picking up points anywhere possible. unless you are going to tell me the 'depth' is much more now than 4 years ago?

No 4 year is not enough to make any reliable stats. But if you for play with Kworps Matchfinder and look for let say:

Grand slam upset's



Top 5 against top 50 in round 3 and lower.

they are very rare. From 1991-1995 there are only 6 loses to top 5 compared to top 50.

Making the same search for 2006- 2010 gives 11

And it is a vary consistent picture. If I remove the grand slam requirement the figures got even worse 20 in 1991-1995 79 in 2006-2010

And yes Henin was an exceptional player

Irute
Oct 28th, 2011, 06:31 PM
What a weird conclusion. The fact that the top have a much lover winning percentage is much more due to the opposite. The general level is much higher today. In Navratilova's days anything below top 10 was absolutely trash (except for floaters).

Higher or lower is debatable, or not really measurable (between years) but what the numbers show that the level is more equal in the top 10, 20 or even 30 then it was few years back. This is why I said it is not really analysis of #1, but #1 in the context of her opponents.

marineblue
Oct 28th, 2011, 06:38 PM
Then why isn't she ahead in the rankings? :confused:

Because that's just so easy and you only need to play a lot of tournaments. Ahh, these Kvitty trolls...

marineblue
Oct 28th, 2011, 06:44 PM
Duh, she won a GRAND SLAM!!! That's really all that needs to be said, but incase you don't follow, she has also backed it up with 4 other titles, a GS QF, 6 finals and an additional PM SF plus atleast SF of YEC!! Caro's outdoor HC record is hardly better: 3 titles and 2 GS SFs but then 3,THREE!!! 1st Rd losses, 2 3rd losses and a 4Rd loss. Kvitova has 1 title, 1 SF,1 GS QF and then 1 1stRd loss,and 4 3rd losses

Oh she has won a slam? Thanks for informing us :rolleyes:. Schiavone, Na also won a slam. Look at where are they now. The rankings are about all events not 4slams.

Aramitz_II
Oct 28th, 2011, 08:56 PM
Higher or lower is debatable, or not really measurable (between years) but what the numbers show that the level is more equal in the top 10, 20 or even 30 then it was few years back. This is why I said it is not really analysis of #1, but #1 in the context of her opponents.

Yes thats right. That is also somewhat what i am trying to say. People but together all sorts off numbers, but most off it is cherry picking with one sole purpose, to gloat ;)

Six Feet Under
Oct 28th, 2011, 09:01 PM
2007 Henin was GOAT :speakles:

bandabou
Oct 28th, 2011, 09:56 PM
What do you think about your fave in 2008? Only 3 titles won :help:
At least Caro won a decent amount of titles.

Ah Matty, Matty..:drive::smoke: Got the years mixed up brother. Serena in 08 won 4 titles: Bangalore, Miami Charleston and U.S. open and was the finalist at Wimbledon. :lol: Nowwww, even THAT year was better than any year Caroline has had.

In '09 it was that Serena won 'only' 3 titles...Oz open, Wimbledon AND YEC, finalist at Miami ( at the yec alone she beat more top 10 opponents than Caro has beaten in her whole career..:lol: Kinda, kinda...)

Stop talking about Serena, much less compare her to Caroline or mentioning her a thread about Caro..only gonna make Caro look worse than she already does. :wavey:

Matt01
Oct 28th, 2011, 10:08 PM
In '09 it was that Serena won 'only' 3 titles...Oz open, Wimbledon AND YEC, finalist at Miami ( at the yec alone she beat more top 10 opponents than Caro has beaten in her whole career..:lol: Kinda, kinda...)


I'm just noticing, while we're at it...this is also relevant for the Azarenka-tanking-thread :lol:
How a player can finish a season as #1, win 2 Slams and YEC and tank all the other WTA tournaments...that's really something special. :worship: BUt I'm sure you already have your explainations and excuses prepared for that ;)

MakarovaFan
Oct 29th, 2011, 12:54 AM
Oh she has won a slam? Thanks for informing us :rolleyes:. Schiavone, Na also won a slam. Look at where are they now. The rankings are about all events not 4slams.
Selective reading at it's FINEST!!! not ONLY has she won a slam but she also won 4 other titles(including a PM), played 6 Finals and atleast 2 other PM SFs, GS QF and chance to claim a 6th title at the YEC(just to repeat as you clearly failed to read the entire rest of that post).....how many other events did Na win this year? or Schiavone last year? And btw Na is still top 5, so where she is now isn't bad at all :rolleyes:

MakarovaFan
Oct 29th, 2011, 01:00 AM
I'm just noticing, while we're at it...this is also relevant for the Azarenka-tanking-thread :lol:
How a player can finish a season as #1, win 2 Slams and YEC and tank all the other WTA tournaments...that's really something special. :worship: BUt I'm sure you already have your explainations and excuses prepared for that ;)

She didn't tank(minus the Miami-RG 4 event stretch,which itself was claimed to be because of an "injury"), she was just highly overrated and therefore beaten by better players majority of that year in her events. 2009 was really the start of the "opportunist"/Peak for Slams only idea Serena and Kim haters have thrown around.

KBdoubleu
Oct 29th, 2011, 01:22 AM
I'm just noticing, while we're at it...this is also relevant for the Azarenka-tanking-thread :lol:
How a player can finish a season as #1, win 2 Slams and YEC and tank all the other WTA tournaments...that's really something special. :worship: BUt I'm sure you already have your explainations and excuses prepared for that ;)

Serena won 70% of her matches outside of the tournaments she won in '09 (3 of the 5 biggest tournaments in the sport). Wozniacki won 66% of the matches she played outside of her tournament victories in '11 (not even reaching a final of the 5 biggest tournaments in 2011).

SwingVolley93
Oct 29th, 2011, 01:29 AM
Pathetic that Woz-tards are trying to compare their desperate fave to Serena. :facepalm:

spencercarlos
Oct 29th, 2011, 01:36 AM
Serena won 70% of her matches outside of the tournaments she won in '09 (3 of the 5 biggest tournaments in the sport). Wozniacki won 66% of the matches she played outside of her tournament victories in '11 (not even reaching a final of the 5 biggest tournaments in 2011).
Oh Matt are you trying to diss Serena's 2009 and try to teach us that Wozniacki is better because the honors the tour by playing a lot of events? :lol:

shoryuken
Oct 29th, 2011, 05:13 AM
Yes Serena only won 3 titles in 2009 but they were 3/5 of the most important titles of the year :lol:

MrSerenaWilliams
Oct 29th, 2011, 05:20 AM
Interesting :)
Hingis and Davenport were the only players to end as rank 1 without winning a GS.


http://i41.tinypic.com/14vs7ll.jpg

I remember when.....

bandabou
Oct 29th, 2011, 06:22 AM
I'm just noticing, while we're at it...this is also relevant for the Azarenka-tanking-thread :lol:
How a player can finish a season as #1, win 2 Slams and YEC and tank all the other WTA tournaments...that's really something special. :worship: BUt I'm sure you already have your explainations and excuses prepared for that ;)

Tank?! :lol: Aahh Matty...that she didn't WIN them, doesn't mean that she didn't do well at them. Serena started the year with very nice streak of reaching at least the SF at all events she played. That got a bit derailed by the clay-season, but still..there wasn't no losses to the mcHales and Kanepi's of this world.

Matt01
Oct 29th, 2011, 09:45 AM
She didn't tank(minus the Miami-RG 4 event stretch,which itself was claimed to be because of an "injury"), she was just highly overrated and therefore beaten by better players majority of that year in her events. 2009 was really the start of the "opportunist"/Peak for Slams only idea Serena and Kim haters have thrown around.


So Bammer is a better player than Serena now? Getting breadsticked by Demented twice then beat her in 2 sets in a Slam? I'm sorry but your theory is :bs:


Oh Matt are you trying to diss Serena's 2009 and try to teach us that Wozniacki is better because the honors the tour by playing a lot of events? :lol:


I'm not trying to teach you that Serena is better than Woz. Read again.
I'm saying that Woz won 6 WTA tournaments while Serena as #1 won only 3 titles and only one of them outside of her 2 Slam wins. Azarenka gets cruficied for tanking a useless RR match which potentially affects her important YEC semi match while Serena tanked her WTA matches in 2009 left and right. A disgrace.


Serena won 70% of her matches outside of the tournaments she won in '09 (3 of the 5 biggest tournaments in the sport). Wozniacki won 66% of the matches she played outside of her tournament victories in '11 (not even reaching a final of the 5 biggest tournaments in 2011).


That's not my point. Fail.
My point is that Woz won 6 tour events while Serena outside of the ITF and YEC won NOTHING.


Tank?! :lol: Aahh Matty...that she didn't WIN them, doesn't mean that she didn't do well at them. Serena started the year with very nice streak of reaching at least the SF at all events she played. That got a bit derailed by the clay-season, but still..there wasn't no losses to the mcHales and Kanepi's of this world.


"A bit derailed"? Are you for real? She lost 3 times on clay in her first match :happy:
And Kanepi is much better player than Bammer or Zakopalova :tape:

Pops Maellard
Oct 29th, 2011, 09:47 AM
^ Well, she lost in the Miami final to Vika 'cause she was injured and then made the silly decision to play Marbella and lose to Zakopalova like 2 days later :sobbing:.

Safe-From-Harm
Oct 29th, 2011, 09:57 AM
Jelena is a legend :hearts:

bandabou
Oct 29th, 2011, 11:04 AM
So Bammer is a better player than Serena now? Getting breadsticked by Demented twice then beat her in 2 sets in a Slam? I'm sorry but your theory is :bs:





I'm not trying to teach you that Serena is better than Woz. Read again.
I'm saying that Woz won 6 WTA tournaments while Serena as #1 won only 3 titles and only one of them outside of her 2 Slam wins. Azarenka gets cruficied for tanking a useless RR match which potentially affects her important YEC semi match while Serena tanked her WTA matches in 2009 left and right. A disgrace.





That's not my point. Fail.
My point is that Woz won 6 tour events while Serena outside of the ITF and YEC won NOTHING.





"A bit derailed"? Are you for real? She lost 3 times on clay in her first match :happy:
And Kanepi is much better player than Bammer or Zakopalova :tape:

So now what, Matty?! Succes with finding ANYBODY who will say that Caro's last two seasons were greater than Serena's '09 or even her '08. :lol: You used to be smart, but now you've been watching too much Caro..seems like the brain's gone. :lol:


It isn't how much you win, it's WHAT you win. That's why everybody say that Juju's '07 was better than her '06 season. Capiche, my friend?!

Marlene
Oct 29th, 2011, 03:39 PM
Higher or lower is debatable, or not really measurable (between years) but what the numbers show that the level is more equal in the top 10, 20 or even 30 then it was few years back. This is why I said it is not really analysis of #1, but #1 in the context of her opponents.

Well said.

Kworb, do you have the data for, say, top-10 in 1975, 1980, ..., 2010?

KBdoubleu
Oct 29th, 2011, 04:13 PM
I'm not trying to teach you that Serena is better than Woz. Read again.
I'm saying that Woz won 6 WTA tournaments while Serena as #1 won only 3 titles and only one of them outside of her 2 Slam wins. Azarenka gets cruficied for tanking a useless RR match which potentially affects her important YEC semi match while Serena tanked her WTA matches in 2009 left and right. A disgrace.

That's not my point. Fail.
My point is that Woz won 6 tour events while Serena outside of the ITF and YEC won NOTHING.

"A bit derailed"? Are you for real? She lost 3 times on clay in her first match :happy:
And Kanepi is much better player than Bammer or Zakopalova :tape:

So, in order to defend Azarenka's tank yesterday, you're trying to prove Serena tanked matches in 2009 by comparing her to Wozniacki? Not sure I understand the thought process behind that, but alright...You bring up the clay season in '09 - but are you not aware that Serena was injured in the Miami final which led to some of those losses? There is no point in comparing Kanepi to Zakopalova/Bammer. Maybe Zakopalova and Bammer are bad matchups for Serena? Serena lost to Zakopalova while injured in Marbella in three sets. A few weeks later Zakopalova stretched her to three at the French Open - which you seem to think is one of only five tournaments she didn't tank in 2009. Her next loss on clay was to Schnyder in three sets - who she has lost to on clay during her peak year in 2002. Her loss after that was to Schiavone by retirement (bc she was INJURED) - who went on to win the French the next year. You also bring up Dementieva, but Serena has struggled with her also. Dementieva is know as someone who doesn't stand up in big moments (Slams & YEC) and Serena is someone who does step it up.

Matt01
Oct 29th, 2011, 04:23 PM
So, in order to defend Azarenka's tank yesterday, you're trying to prove Serena tanked matches in 2009 by comparing her to Wozniacki? Not sure I understand the thought process behind that, but alright...You bring up the clay season in '09 - but are you not aware that Serena was injured in the Miami final which led to some of those losses? There is no point in comparing Kanepi to Zakopalova/Bammer. Maybe Zakopalova and Bammer are bad matchups for Serena? Serena lost to Zakopalova while injured in Marbella in three sets. A few weeks later Zakopalova stretched her to three at the French Open - which you seem to think is one of only five tournaments she didn't tank in 2009. Her next loss on clay was to Schnyder in three sets - who she has lost to on clay during her peak year in 2002. Her loss after that was to Schiavone by retirement (bc she was INJURED) - who went on to win the French the next year. You also bring up Dementieva, but Serena has struggled with her also. Dementieva is know as someone who doesn't stand up in big moments (Slams & YEC) and Serena is someone who does step it up.


Serena lost quite a lot of matches because of injury, no? Why did she play all those matches/tournaments while being injured?

As for your last statement...Serena lost 3:6, 1:6 in the final of Sydney and two weeks later she won in easy 2 sets in a Slam...in Canada she got breadsticked again but in Wimbeldon she again soemhow won...Serena could have stepped it up in her losses but she didn't because she didn't care. I think that is quite obvious.

bbjpa
Oct 29th, 2011, 05:17 PM
Wozniacki being 2011 #1 YE is the biggest joke of WTA history :haha:

brickhousesupporter
Oct 29th, 2011, 05:27 PM
There does seem to be a decline in the quality of the year end #1, but hopefully we have hit rock bottom, and things will pick up