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Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Two-and-out for you.....

Don't feed the trolls. :lol:

Dave.
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:23 PM
Waa, waa, waa Somebody call the whambulance. :baby: Justine has always been weak with a low self-esteem. It was obvious in her life off court and on court. Serena is the sole reason she left. She is a tennis player and she knows when Serena is in form and she saw this in Miami. She knew her name was going along side Maria's name, in the "YOU'LL NEVER BEAT ME AGAIN, BITCH" column, along with a certified resolution stating, "Be it resolved, I Serena Williams will be taking your No. 1 ranking from you at a GS this year...NOW THEREFORE, be ready or be gone". :lol:

Wow, this really is delusional. Someone with low self-esteeem doesn't become a tennis champion and TOTALLY DOMINATE their entire field. She doesn't compare with Maria. Justine has been able to overturn heavy losses and bad H2H's before, one loss to Serena wouldn't have had any effect on her decision.

Even if (this didn't happen it's just an example) she was going to retire because she was scared of Serena, Justine would have been smart enough to realise that 1) Serena is not known for her consistency so it would be unlikely they would be meeting all the time and 2) Serena has not exactly been immune in injury these past years.

After Miami, it's not like Serena went on a roll and dominated the tour. She's had plenty of hard moments since then and only at the USO has she really been convincing.

Seriously, Serena had nothing to do with her retirement. I would think being a Serena fan you would know that Justine wasen't intimidated by her.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:23 PM
THE OMNISCIENT ONE HAS SPOKEN! And that is good enough for me :D
Close this puppy down now....or else Denise will pull up every post from page 1 to page 16 just to make some comment.

We don't need to read it all over again.

Okay, why are personally attacking me? :confused: Oh, I get it, because you have nothing else.

Marshmallow
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:23 PM
A "severe anemia" which didn't stop her from winning Wimby, play her best match outside grass since forever against Henin at USO and make the trip (just after USO) to Asia to play 3 MM in a row.mmm...


You know there are different forms of Anemia, and so differing visible effects... I'm sure they even explain this on the likes of Wikipedia. I can't believe Venus' health issues that have been obvious for all to see (her 3 set record in recent history). Why we're at it, why don't we call into question Justine's mystery illness in 2004. She ... similarly to Venus was complaining of fatugie earlier in the year, but that didn't stop her winning the Olympic Gold. was her supposed illness real?

Anik
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Waa, waa, waa Somebody call the whambulance. :baby: Justine has always been weak with a low self-esteem. It was obvious in her life off court and on court. Serena is the sole reason she left. She is a tennis player and she knows when Serena is in form and she saw this in Miami. She knew her name was going along side Maria's name, in the "YOU'LL NEVER BEAT ME AGAIN, BITCH" column, along with a certified resolution stating, "Be it resolved, I Serena Williams will be taking your No. 1 ranking from you at a GS this year...NOW THEREFORE, be ready or be gone". :lol:

:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
i can understand now why some players have so many hater on this forum with fan like that :o

Anik
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:26 PM
THE OMNISCIENT ONE HAS SPOKEN! And that is good enough for me :D
Close this puppy down now....or else Denise will pull up every post from page 1 to page 16 just to make some comment.

We don't need to read it all over again.

same for me :lol:

IceHock
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:27 PM
Waa, waa, waa Somebody call the whambulance. :baby: Justine has always been weak with a low self-esteem. It was obvious in her life off court and on court. Serena is the sole reason she left. She is a tennis player and she knows when Serena is in form and she saw this in Miami. She knew her name was going along side Maria's name, in the "YOU'LL NEVER BEAT ME AGAIN, BITCH" column, along with a certified resolution stating, "Be it resolved, I Serena Williams will be taking your No. 1 ranking from you at a GS this year...NOW THEREFORE, be ready or be gone". :lol:

Now i've grown to like you Denise and know that your not a big fan of Henin, but you can't honestly believe what i've quoted from your paragraph can you? Serena was in form in Miami yes but outside of there, Wimbledon, and the USO she has been completely mediocre to her standards that she sets for herself at least I believe so, do I think the Miami loss hurt Justine? Yes I do, but the sole reason she left, I think far from it, like Clijsters, Henin has to put so much more into her game because of her size and chase down alot of balls and also play bigger than what her body might have allowed her to, and I think it caught up with her this year, obviously I did not see it coming but it was showing in the losses to Maria, Serena, and Dinara. Justine has always had guts, so I believe her leaving because Serena beat her once within the last 4 of their matches is a little farfetched to me.

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:28 PM
Don't feed the trolls. :lol:
As expected, the moderators whacked him/her/it. :armed:

Dave.
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:28 PM
You know there are different forms of Anemia, and so differing visible effects... I'm sure they even explain this on the likes of Wikipedia. I can't believe Venus' health issues that have been obvious for all to see (her 3 set record in recent history). Why we're at it, why don't we call into question Justine's mystery illness in 2004. She ... similarly to Venus was complaining of fatugie earlier in the year, but that didn't stop her winning the Olympic Gold. was her supposed illness real?

That is true, but to say Venus lost to Henin because of the anemia is simply untrue. If Henin really was playing the match of her life, she wasen't going to be losing to a below 100% Venus (and Venus for most of 2007 away from Wimbledon was below 100% in match form).

Marshmallow
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:34 PM
That is true, but to say Venus lost to Henin because of the anemia is simply untrue. If Henin really was playing the match of her life, she wasen't going to be losing to a below 100% Venus (and Venus for most of 2007 away from Wimbledon was below 100% in match form).

:) I didn't say it like that. Put simply, I think Venus' anemia played a role in her loss, the size of which only she knows. But she was visibly off in that second set especially, and still managed to break Henin back twice.

shell
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:34 PM
Okay, why are personally attacking me? :confused: Oh, I get it, because you have nothing else.

Number 1: It wasn't a personal attack. It is called sarcastic humor. Let me explain...if you look at the last 4 pages of this thread, you are on a posting roll. You are pulling up posts from way back. One could assume you will continue this for the NEXT 16 pages.

Number 2: With your snotty little comment above, because you couldn't let the first post rest (which was a fine post, and one I was going to let rest), you deserve it.

And I know you will find something snotty to say about this one, because you just can't stand to miss an opportunity. Go ahead, Denise, post away. WHATEVER.

VishaalMaria
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:34 PM
The women's quarters at USO are played on Tuesday and Wednesday, semis on Friday, so Venus had almost two days off between her quarterfinal and her semifinal match. She lost fair and square and your excuses are irrelevant

And please don't even get me started about her supposed "anemia".

Two womens quarter final matches are supposed to be played on Tuesday [top half of the womens draw], the other two on Wednesday [bottom half of the womens draw]; that was NOT the case at the 2007 US Open. Justine played her QF match on Tuesday, and Venus on Wednesday [both were in the top half of the draw] giving Justine an extra day to rest and therefore an advantage, which was my earlier point.

As for Venus' anaemia, Oracene confirmed that Venus has it so you dont need to get started on [and question] her anaemia.

So I do know what I'm talking about, you need to get your facts straight before you say anything because 1) It just makes you look stupid, and 2) It's plain annoying.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:35 PM
Wow, this really is delusional. Someone with low self-esteeem doesn't become a tennis champion and TOTALLY DOMINATE their entire field. She doesn't compare with Maria. Justine has been able to overturn heavy losses and bad H2H's before, one loss to Serena wouldn't have had any effect on her decision.

Even if (this didn't happen it's just an example) she was going to retire because she was scared of Serena, Justine would have been smart enough to realise that 1) Serena is not known for her consistency so it would be unlikely they would be meeting all the time and 2) Serena has not exactly been immune in injury these past years.

After Miami, it's not like Serena went on a roll and dominated the tour. She's had plenty of hard moments since then and only at the USO has she really been convincing.

Seriously, Serena had nothing to do with her retirement. I would think being a Serena fan you would know that Justine wasen't intimidated by her.

Justine has often demonstrated low self-esteem to me. I think she's weak and I have no respect for her. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about her because of her behavior.

Secondly, Justine is a rival of Serena and she knows Serena is a better tennis player then she so she wouldn't even consider any inconsistencies Serena has shown in the past because she knew if Serena really dedicated herself to coming back to the No. 1 spot that the results would come and at her expense. Lastly, no tennis player is ever immune to injury, but people do recover and it shouldn't be something to pop up in another players' mind in evaluating whether they should stay in the game or not.

Oh really, Serena was only convincing at US Open this year? Okay...:rolleyes: If that's what you want to believe, whatever.

Ha!!! I think Justine was totally intimidated by Serena. Always has been.

And, why do you guys take everything so seriously?? Don't you know when you're being razzed? :ras:

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:36 PM
CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where are the mods?

:haha:

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:37 PM
:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
i can understand now why some players have so many hater on this forum with fan like that :o

I can understand the reaction now. You guys just don't get my sense of humor.

Noctis
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:38 PM
No wa so ever they are playing top levels/

bandabou
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Somehow I think the irony was lost on you.

I guess..:lol:

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:41 PM
I can understand the reaction now. You guys just don't get my sense of humor.
You have learned well, grasshopper. ;)

homogenius
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:42 PM
You know there are different forms of Anemia, and so differing visible effects... I'm sure they even explain this on the likes of Wikipedia. I can't believe Venus' health issues that have been obvious for all to see (her 3 set record in recent history). Why we're at it, why don't we call into question Justine's mystery illness in 2004. She ... similarly to Venus was complaining of fatugie earlier in the year, but that didn't stop her winning the Olympic Gold. was her supposed illness real?

I supposed one could (and surely did already) questionned the run of Henin at OG.However, her virus forced her not to play between Amelia I. and FO (where she win only one match) and between FO and OG.After that her only tourny of the year was USO I think, and she only came back next year in Miami.Seems pretty serious to me...

In Venus case, she may have suffered from anemia at one point but I think it has been blown out of proportions.I know what I saw : Venus played at a great level in that match and it just happened that Henin was a bit better.After that match, Oracene claimed that Venus needed to go to the hospitaL ASAP cause she was in really bad state.If that was as serious as claimed, why did Venus play meaningless tournies in Asia (just to end withdrawing from YEC btw) ?
I ask this last year and no one came with an answer.

Both sisters had "good enough" resume to be part of the greatest players of all time.Apparently, for some of their fans (not you specifically)it's not enough...they must be invicible.Reading some posts year after year, they can't lose because the other player was better on that day.In reality it happened, more than once.Giving excuses won't change it.

shell
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:42 PM
THE OMNISCIENT ONE HAS SPOKEN! And that is good enough for me :D
Close this puppy down now....or else Denise will pull up every post from page 1 to page 16 just to make some comment.

We don't need to read it all over again.

And for the above post, I get my first ever RED REP DOT! And from none other than Denise.

Somehow I feel honored, and it couldn't come from a more predictable source.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:43 PM
Now i've grown to like you Denise and know that your not a big fan of Henin, but you can't honestly believe what i've quoted from your paragraph can you? Serena was in form in Miami yes but outside of there, Wimbledon, and the USO she has been completely mediocre to her standards that she sets for herself at least I believe so, do I think the Miami loss hurt Justine? Yes I do, but the sole reason she left, I think far from it, like Clijsters, Henin has to put so much more into her game because of her size and chase down alot of balls and also play bigger than what her body might have allowed her to, and I think it caught up with her this year, obviously I did not see it coming but it was showing in the losses to Maria, Serena, and Dinara. Justine has always had guts, so I believe her leaving because Serena beat her once within the last 4 of their matches is a little farfetched to me.

You would honestly stop liking me because we have a difference of opinion? Actually, to be honest in a way I think Serena's resurgence has a lot to do with it but not everything, but I think my earlier, serious, posts in this thread speak for themselves on this subject.

People get so serious and up in arms, especially on the subject of Justine. I know that we all don't come from the same culture, but I'm doing what is called, "selling wolf tickets", i.e. "talking shit" to her fans to get a rise out of them and laugh out of Serena fans. That's all. I guess it's just a difference in culture. :shrug:

shell
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:44 PM
I guess..:lol:

Dude...in your post you mention that if Serena gets past the QF she always wins. Well, remember Quarterena last year. It was a joke about Serena not getting past the finals because Justine beat her.

My humor must not translate!:)

Dave.
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:45 PM
I can understand the reaction now. You guys just don't get my sense of humor.

You were joking about the whole thing? Phew! It's just hard to tell with someone who calls themselves the duchess of williamsburg. ;)

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Number 1: It wasn't a personal attack. It is called sarcastic humor. Let me explain...if you look at the last 4 pages of this thread, you are on a posting roll. You are pulling up posts from way back. One could assume you will continue this for the NEXT 16 pages.

Number 2: With your snotty little comment above, because you couldn't let the first post rest (which was a fine post, and one I was going to let rest), you deserve it.

And I know you will find something snotty to say about this one, because you just can't stand to miss an opportunity. Go ahead, Denise, post away. WHATEVER.

Yes, I will thanks :)

Sarcastic humor at my personal expense...same thing. :)

I deserve what? :confused:

shell
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:47 PM
You would honestly stop liking me because we have a difference of opinion? Actually, to be honest in a way I think Serena's resurgence has a lot to do with it but not everything, but I think my earlier, serious, posts in this thread speak for themselves on this subject.

People get so serious and up in arms, especially on the subject of Justine. I know that we all don't come from the same culture, but I'm doing what is called, "selling wolf tickets", i.e. "talking shit" to her fans to get a rise out of them and laugh out of Serena fans. That's all. I guess it's just a difference in culture. :shrug:

Alright, I guess we can still be ene...I mean friends. :confused:

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:47 PM
You have learned well, grasshopper. ;)

:lol: Well, I'm glad someone got it.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:49 PM
And for the above post, I get my first ever RED REP DOT! And from none other than Denise.

Somehow I feel honored, and it couldn't come from a more predictable source.

Cause, in your mind I was supposed to take that little attack. That just ain't me, honey. :)

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:50 PM
You were joking about the whole thing? Phew! It's just hard to tell with someone who calls themselves the duchess of williamsburg. ;)

Wow, and you took that seriously too. :unsure:

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:51 PM
Dude...in your post you mention that if Serena gets past the QF she always wins. Well, remember Quarterena last year. It was a joke about Serena not getting past the finals because Justine beat her.

My humor must not translate!:)

Well, now Justine is the joke and Serena is No. 1. :) Does that translate?

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:53 PM
You would honestly stop liking me because we have a difference of opinion? Actually, to be honest in a way I think Serena's resurgence has a lot to do with it but not everything, but I think my earlier, serious, posts in this thread speak for themselves on this subject.

People get so serious and up in arms, especially on the subject of Justine. I know that we all don't come from the same culture, but I'm doing what is called, "selling wolf tickets", i.e. "talking shit" to her fans to get a rise out of them and laugh out of Serena fans. That's all. I guess it's just a difference in culture. :shrug:
To be fair, De, I must point out that a lot of Williams fans get the same way, especially when it comes to Serena's size. For instance, if I were to go into the Serena forum and post "Serena's butt should have 'Official Game Ball of the NBA' tattooed on it," I would get a red dot from somebody. You know that.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:54 PM
To be fair, De, I must point out that a lot of Williams fans get the same way, especially when it comes to Serena's size. For instance, if I were to go into the Serena forum and post "Serena's butt should have 'Official Game Ball of the NBA' tattooed on it," I would get a red dot from somebody. You know that.

Yeah, but is that just cruel humor or selling wolf tickets? :scratch:

shell
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Well, now Justine is the joke and Serena is No. 1. :) Does that translate?

No, honey...I guess it's just that difference in culture

Dave.
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Wow, and you took that seriously too. :unsure:

No, I can just see your a big fan of the Williams sisters, and it's not like those same (deluded) things you were saying to "sell wolf tickets" haven't been said before by other Williams sisters fans who actually meant them. I guess I mistook you for being one of them, and I apologise for that, it's kind of hard to tell over the internet.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 08:58 PM
No, honey...I guess it's just that difference in culture

Yeah, I'm not too familiar with the trailer sect. :)

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Yeah, but is that just cruel humor or selling wolf tickets? :scratch:
Who's not getting the joke now? ;)

VishaalMaria
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:06 PM
In Venus case, she may have suffered from anemia at one point but I think it has been blown out of proportions.I know what I saw : Venus played at a great level in that match and it just happened that Henin was a bit better.After that match, Oracene claimed that Venus needed to go to the hospitaL ASAP cause she was in really bad state.If that was as serious as claimed, why did Venus play meaningless tournies in Asia (just to end withdrawing from YEC btw) ?
I ask this last year and no one came with an answer.


Venus does suffer from anaemia. I guess things are just subjective because from what I saw in her match against Justine was a player that looked tired from the onset and generally lacking in energy throughout the match.

In perspective that was Venus' first semi-final in her homeland the US since 2002, do you really think she'd start off flat footed, error-prone, and get herself into a 3-5 deficit? Especially considering Justine beat Serena in her previous match; all the more reason for Venus to come out all guns blazing, but she just looked fragile though she tried.

I'm not saying that Justine won purely because Venus was anaemic; Justine played some great tennis and deserved to be in the final, but it's wrong for people to say that Venus was playing her best and Justine still beat her in straight sets when that's just a delusional fantasy.

As for Venus' MM tournaments later that year in Asia, Venus made an obligation to play those tournaments and Venus is "true" like that with any organiser. Venus won one and lost the other two. Something was definitely up, she squandered two set points against Flavia and squandered three match points against Virginie Razzano. Is that characteristic of Venus considering her opponents and the circumstances [tier III and below]?No.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:07 PM
No, I can just see your a big fan of the Williams sisters, and it's not like those same (deluded) things you were saying to "sell wolf tickets" haven't been said before by other Williams sisters fans who actually meant them. I guess I mistook you for being one of them, and I apologise for that, it's kind of hard to tell over the internet.

Oh, I don't think what I said was deluded at all. I think that a great portion of what I said in jest is true. I do think Serena was a big reason why she retired. :shrug: But, that's my opinion and I have my reasons.

But, when did this thread become about Justine? :confused:

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:07 PM
Who's not getting the joke now? ;)

I got it, I was laughing. You just couldn't hear me. :p

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:09 PM
I got it, I was laughing. You just couldn't hear me. :p
Still can't admit when you've been had, eh? That's OK. You and I both know I gotcha. :bounce:

VishaalMaria
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:11 PM
You guys are like a married couple!

Dave.
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Oh, I don't think what I said was deluded at all. I think that a great portion of what I said in jest is true. I do think Serena was a big reason why she retired. :shrug: But, that's my opinion and I have my reasons.

But, when did this thread become about Justine? :confused:

This thread became about Justine when you were supposedly trying to wind up Justine's fans by saying she's weak and lacks fight. If you think that's true aswell then fine, but people are obviously going to have a problem with that (regardless of whether they are fans of her or not).

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:19 PM
To be fair, De, I must point out that a lot of Williams fans get the same way, especially when it comes to Serena's size. For instance, if I were to go into the Serena forum and post "Serena's butt should have 'Official Game Ball of the NBA' tattooed on it," I would get a red dot from somebody. You know that.

exactly, i feel the williams sisters are the only fanbase on this board you can't have a joke about because of their over zealous fans. i love having a laugh with dvorak about lena, joking about tati's slutishness and nutjob anna.

williams sisters fans take themselves and venus and serena way to seriously. chaky's an over-emotional, nutcase dosen't make me any lesser fan for joking about it or admitting it.

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:26 PM
exactly, i feel the williams sisters are the only fanbase on this board you can't have a joke about because of their over zealous fans. i love having a laugh with dvorak about lena, joking about tati's slutishness and nutjob anna.

williams sisters fans take themselves and venus and serena way to seriously. chaky's an over-emotional, nutcase dosen't make me any lesser fan for joking about it or admitting it.
No, that's Dinara Safina. Anna Chakvetadze is a CUTE nutcase. ;)

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:27 PM
Two womens quarter final matches are supposed to be played on Tuesday [top half of the womens draw], the other two on Wednesday ; that was NOT the case at the 2007 US Open. Justine played her QF match on Tuesday, and Venus on Wednesday [both were in the top half of the draw][B] giving Justine an extra day to rest and therefore an advantage, which was my earlier point.
As for Venus' anaemia, Oracene confirmed that Venus has it so you dont need to get started on [and question] her anaemia.

So I do know what I'm talking about, you need to get your facts straight before you say anything because 1) It just makes you look stupid, and 2) It's plain annoying.


You said earlier that Venus had less than a day off between her matches against Jelena and Justine, you were proven wrong by me and now you say that I need to get my facts straight? Obviously you have the IQ of a hamster.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Still can't admit when you've been had, eh? That's OK. You and I both know I gotcha. :bounce:

Never :ras:

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:33 PM
No, that's Dinara Safina. Anna Chakvetadze is a CUTE nutcase. ;)

ok i can go with that lol

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:33 PM
This thread became about Justine when you were supposedly trying to wind up Justine's fans by saying she's weak and lacks fight. If you think that's true aswell then fine, but people are obviously going to have a problem with that (regardless of whether they are fans of her or not).

Actually, if you look back it was before that. But as far as people having problems with what I say, that's fine. :shrug:

Nabalonge
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:34 PM
exactly, i feel the williams sisters are the only fanbase on this board you can't have a joke about because of their over zealous fans. i love having a laugh with dvorak about lena, joking about tati's slutishness and nutjob anna.

williams sisters fans take themselves and venus and serena way to seriously. chaky's an over-emotional, nutcase dosen't make me any lesser fan for joking about it or admitting it.
YOU love doing this, YOU love doing that, will you find it within yourself to see that is is alright that there are some of us who may not love to do what you love? I'm also fairly certain you would be able to find those who appreciate the sisters who could joke with you. You may have to befriend them because I think any statement is softened when it comes from someone who is perceived as a friend or friendly. Some fans of Serena and or Venus don't have to love making fun of them. Some fans of Serena and or Venus don't have to love making fun of them or other players. This is a note for you not to generalize because it certainly doesn't open the door to anything outside of animosity postings. It's not about taking oneself seriously either, or admitting to a belief that is truth to YOU, it's about personal preference.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:37 PM
exactly, i feel the williams sisters are the only fanbase on this board you can't have a joke about because of their over zealous fans. i love having a laugh with dvorak about lena, joking about tati's slutishness and nutjob anna.

williams sisters fans take themselves and venus and serena way to seriously. chaky's an over-emotional, nutcase dosen't make me any lesser fan for joking about it or admitting it.

sammy, you're still talking about us like we're not here. :lol:

Besides, darrin said he was joking.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:39 PM
YOU love doing this, YOU love doing that, will you find it within yourself to see that is is alright that there are some of us who may not love to do what you love? I'm also fairly certain you would be able to find those who appreciate the sisters who could joke with you. You may have to befriend them because I think any statement is softened when it comes from someone who is perceived as a friend or friendly. Some fans of Serena and or Venus don't have to love making fun of them. Some fans of Serena and or Venus don't have to love making fun of them or other players. This is a note for you not to generalize because it certainly doesn't open the door to anything outside of animosity postings. It's not about taking oneself seriously either, or admitting to a belief that is truth to YOU, it's about personal preference.

It also doesn't help to say you don't like a whole fan base for one reason or another. Just sayin'....

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:46 PM
YOU love doing this, YOU love doing that, will you find it within yourself to see that is is alright that there are some of us who may not love to do what you love? I'm also fairly certain you would be able to find those who appreciate the sisters who could joke with you. You may have to befriend them because I think any statement is softened when it comes from someone who is perceived as a friend or friendly. Some fans of Serena and or Venus don't have to love making fun of them. Some fans of Serena and or Venus don't have to love making fun of them or other players. This is a note for you not to generalize because it certainly doesn't open the door to anything outside of animosity postings. It's not about taking oneself seriously either, or admitting to a belief that is truth to YOU, it's about personal preference.

you merely prove my point with this response, its not making fun, its having a laugh and sense of humour. darrinbaker00 gets it, hes one of the very few.

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:48 PM
It also doesn't help to say you don't like a whole fan base for one reason or another. Just sayin'....

its obviously not every fan but its too many to name. the williams fans i get along with will not take offence as they know i was generalising, such as darrinbaker00.

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:48 PM
sammy, you're still talking about us like we're not here. :lol:

Besides, darrin said he was joking.
De, you and I both know that doesn't work with some of our fellow Williams fans (Paneru). They can see my tongue in my cheek when I post, and they still get upset (whatever King./Justin is calling himself these days).

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:50 PM
De, you and I both know that doesn't work with some of our fellow Williams fans (Paneru). They can see my tongue in my cheek when I post, and they still get upset (whatever King./Justin is calling himself these days).

Aww, let's get off our fellow WS fans and continue to talk about sammy and Justine. That's so much more enjoyable. :p

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:51 PM
its obviously not every fan but its too many to name. the williams fans i get along with will not take offence as they know i was generalising, such as darrinbaker00.

But, that's what you said. So, now it's everyone but darrin? :lol:

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:53 PM
Aww, let's get off our fellow WS fans and continue to talk about sammy and Justine. That's so much more enjoyable. :p

well i am a pale skinned prince, show some respect :bounce::p

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:55 PM
But, that's what you said. So, now it's everyone but darrin? :lol:

let me put it simple for you, it would be a lot quicker to list the williams fans with a sense of humour and who can be self depricating, than listing the ones that haven't.

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Aww, let's get off our fellow WS fans and continue to talk about sammy and Justine. That's so much more enjoyable. :p


Why not trying to start to get a life instead? :rolleyes:
As a supposed laywyer one would think you have one, but obviously that is not the case.

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:57 PM
But, that's what you said. So, now it's everyone but darrin? :lol:
Well, I am special. ;)

(Insert "mentally-challenged" joke here)

Nabalonge
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:58 PM
you merely prove my point with this response, its not making fun, its having a laugh and sense of humour. darrinbaker00 gets it, hes one of the very few.
You are mistaken. Darrin can make fun or have a laugh at Serena and Venus if he wishes. I am not against that. It is not my choice to dictate what he finds humorous. It is also not your place or your right to tell me what should be found funny. Do you get that?
It is fine that Darrin can share laughs with you, but it is also fine that I miss your humour. You may not understand what I find funny and that too should be just fine. It isn't something I care to judge you on so you should afford that same right. You should accept how this cuts both ways instead of being judgmental because Darrin is no better a fan because he finds humor in what I may scratch my head over.

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:58 PM
dance dance dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


so what!!!

gaghasdasdasd



dujddkkd



aaaiiiright?

Why is everyone so oily in this pic??http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2640/serenavenuswilliamszacppl6.jpg

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Why not trying to start to get a life instead? :rolleyes:
As a supposed laywyer one would think you have one, but obviously that is not the case.
1. You have enough time to comment on Denise's so-called lack of a life, so what does that say about you?

2. If you're going to insult someone, don't misspell simple words like "lawyer." It doesn't look good.

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:00 PM
It's crazy that these girls from COmpton are the toast of New York Fashion Week. It's great that they shared their life together.

Their lives are better because of it.

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Why did shell bad-rep me in page 10?, i did NOTHING wrong :rolleyes:

So pathetic!

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:04 PM
let me put it simple for you, it would be a lot quicker to list the williams fans with a sense of humour and who can be self depricating, than listing the ones that haven't.

Wow, I didn't know self-deprecation was a virtue. :lol:

Anyway, I'm ready to see the list, or is it still just darrin?

sammy01
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Why did shell bad-rep me in page 10?, i did NOTHING wrong :rolleyes:

So pathetic!

i don't know, but don't show that pic to jj you know what shes like, she'll come out in tokyo looking like you could fry chips on her lmao

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:06 PM
1. You have enough time to comment on Denise's so-called lack of a life, so what does that say about you?


It was only a short post.
And look up how many posts I have written in this thread and how many has Denise-trolly. Then you'll see the difference.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:06 PM
Well, I am special. ;)

(Insert "mentally-challenged" joke here)

Check. :lol:

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:09 PM
1. You have enough time to comment on Denise's so-called lack of a life, so what does that say about you?

2. If you're going to insult someone, don't misspell simple words like "lawyer." It doesn't look good.

:tape: Thorougly PWNED!!

:lol: I just don't feed trolls anymore darrin.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:11 PM
It's crazy that these girls from COmpton are the toast of New York Fashion Week. It's great that they shared their life together.

Their lives are better because of it.

I love that pic of them and the two Vogue-rs in sunglasses sandwiching them and looking over at each other. :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:14 PM
I love that pic of them and the two Vogue-rs in sunglasses sandwiching them and looking over at each other. :lol:

oh so you decide to stop the jh hating when i get here!!! not fair de!!!! :awww:

daffodil
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:14 PM
Let's look @ Justine's Slams:

'03 French Open - should've lost to Serena, if it weren't for her gamesmanship.
'03 US Open - even Capriati said that there would always be an asterisk beside the tournament b/c the Williams sisters weren't there.
'04 Australian Open - Serena wasn't there.
'05 French Open - Serena wasn't there.
'06 French Open - Serena wasn't there.
'07 French Open - played great.
'07 US Open - played unbelieveable & deserved to win.

Now look @ Serena's Slams:

'99 US Open - smacked 3 former/current World #1's.
'02 French Open - beat Top 2 players & 2 former French Open champs.
'02 Wimbledon - beat 2-time defending Wimby champ.
'02 US Open - beat 2-time defending US Open champ, & Davenport.
'03 Australian Open - beat Venus & Kim.
'03 Wimbledon - loved it.
'05 Australian Open - beat in-form Sharapova, Davenport, Mauresmo. Justine wasn't there.
'07 Australian Open - beat 6 seeds. Justine wasn't there.
'08 US Open - better than everybody in the draw. Justine wasn't there.

VishaalMaria
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:14 PM
You said earlier that Venus had less than a day off between her matches against Jelena and Justine, you were proven wrong by me and now you say that I need to get my facts straight? Obviously you have the IQ of a hamster.

Well first of all, you really need to learn some manners and discuss topics in a civil manner. I can see that I bruised your ego for you to make such a childish comment.

Secondly, my point was that Justine had extra time to rest after her QF match whereas Venus played a long night match and would have went to sleep late, only to awake in the morning and have less than a day to be ready for her match against Justine.

So no, I wasnt wrong. All you've proved is that you're childish and an ego-maniac which is re-enforced by the fact that you tried to nit pick my post to make it seem as if you were right but failed miserably.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:19 PM
oh so you decide to stop the jh hating when i get here!!! not fair de!!!! :awww:

Hey, it's a party. :aparty: Go for what you know, you know I got your back. ;)

But, I'm just having a great time and loving every minute of Serena and Vee's victories this year. It's been a wonderful year with Serena's thrashing of Justine at Miami, winning that. Serena's win at Charleston. Dinara's successes oncourt. Vee and Serena at Wimbledon, the Olympics and their doubles win, and Serena's win at the US and getting No. 1 back. It's just been fabulous this year and I hope the train continues chugging along.

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:21 PM
Well first of all, you really need to learn some manners and discuss topics in a civil manner. I can see that I bruised your ego for you to make such a childish comment.

Secondly, my point was that Justine had extra time to rest after her QF match whereas Venus played a long night match and would have went to sleep late, only to awake in the morning and have less than a day to be ready for her match against Justine.

So no, I wasnt wrong. All you've proved is that you're childish and an ego-maniac which is re-enforced by the fact that you tried to nit pick my post to make it seem as if you were right but failed miserably.

:worship::worship::worship:

Another pwning of Matt. :p

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:23 PM
Well first of all, you really need to learn some manners and discuss topics in a civil manner. I can see that I bruised your ego for you to make such a childish comment.

Secondly, my point was that Justine had extra time to rest after her QF match whereas Venus played a long night match and would have went to sleep late, only to awake in the morning and have less than a day to be ready for her match against Justine.

So no, I wasnt wrong. All you've proved is that you're childish and an ego-maniac which is re-enforced by the fact that you tried to nit pick my post to make it seem as if you were right but failed miserably.


Yes, you were wrong.

And BTW, Jelena and Venus were both asked if they would play the Night Match on that day and they both agreed, so you can stop useing that cheap excuse for Venus' loss against Justine. Not even Venus herself is useing it :wavey:

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:28 PM
Let's look @ Justine's Slams:

'03 French Open - should've lost to Serena, if it weren't for her gamesmanship.
'03 US Open - even Capriati said that there would always be an asterisk beside the tournament b/c the Williams sisters weren't there.
'04 Australian Open - Serena wasn't there.
'05 French Open - Serena wasn't there.
'06 French Open - Serena wasn't there.
'07 French Open - played great.
'07 US Open - played unbelieveable & deserved to win.

Now look @ Serena's Slams:

'99 US Open - smacked 3 former/current World #1's.
'02 French Open - beat Top 2 players & 2 former French Open champs.
'02 Wimbledon - beat 2-time defending Wimby champ.
'02 US Open - beat 2-time defending US Open champ, & Davenport.
'03 Australian Open - beat Venus & Kim.
'03 Wimbledon - loved it.
'05 Australian Open - beat in-form Sharapova, Davenport, Mauresmo. Justine wasn't there.
'07 Australian Open - beat 6 seeds. Justine wasn't there.
'08 US Open - better than everybody in the draw. Justine wasn't there.

:angel:

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:29 PM
Hey, it's a party. :aparty: Go for what you know, you know I got your back. ;)

But, I'm just having a great time and loving every minute of Serena and Vee's victories this year. It's been a wonderful year with Serena's thrashing of Justine at Miami, winning that. Serena's win at Charleston. Dinara's successes oncourt. Vee and Serena at Wimbledon, the Olympics and their doubles win, and Serena's win at the US and getting No. 1 back. It's just been fabulous this year and I hope the train continues chugging along.
Even though I know it's not going to happen, I would love to see Venus and Serena qualify for Doha in singles and doubles. If only they had played and won the Open doubles..... :sad:

Denise4925
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Even though I know it's not going to happen, I would love to see Venus and Serena qualify for Doha in singles and doubles. If only they had played and won the Open doubles..... :sad:

Oh well...

Anyway, I'm gone for the week-end guys. Hope everyone has a safe and happy weekend. I'll try to log in this weekend, but it depends on the weather here in Texas and whether I will have power. :p I don't think the hurricane is going to hit us hard at all here though.

Anyway, have a good one. :wavey:

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Hey, it's a party. :aparty: Go for what you know, you know I got your back. ;)

But, I'm just having a great time and loving every minute of Serena and Vee's victories this year. It's been a wonderful year with Serena's thrashing of Justine at Miami, winning that. Serena's win at Charleston. Dinara's successes oncourt. Vee and Serena at Wimbledon, the Olympics and their doubles win, and Serena's win at the US and getting No. 1 back. It's just been fabulous this year and I hope the train continues chugging along.

you want to give some people here a heart attack lol....we'd never see the end of these threads :rolls:

Olórin
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:36 PM
Good to see the classless, holier than thou, Williams detractors having their asses handed to them in this thread :yeah:

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Bye D :wavey:

God bless.

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Good to see the classless, holier than thou, Williams detractors having their asses handed to them in this thread :yeah:


What a classy, intelligent and insightful post :yeah:

Dodoboy.
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Serena even said in her interview she wished she had played doubles. Then why the heck didn't you??

Il Primo!
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Oh. Why even bothering WS's fans? I mean, this thread is so meaningless.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:38 PM
What a classy, intelligent and insightful post :yeah:

as opposed to yours????

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Oh well...

Anyway, I'm gone for the week-end guys. Hope everyone has a safe and happy weekend. I'll try to log in this weekend, but it depends on the weather here in Texas and whether I will have power. :p I don't think the hurricane is going to hit us hard at all here though.

Anyway, have a good one. :wavey:
Hey, I almost forgot. Texas is playing the role of Tina Turner this weekend. Stay safe, counselor. :wavey:

Olórin
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:41 PM
What a classy, intelligent and insightful post :yeah:

As ever.

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:45 PM
It was only a short post.
And look up how many posts I have written in this thread and how many has Denise-trolly. Then you'll see the difference.
You studied under Savion Glover, didn't you?

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:46 PM
Good to see the classless, holier than thou, Williams detractors having their asses handed to them in this thread :yeah:
By us classless, holier-than-thou Williams fans, of course..... ;)

VishaalMaria
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:51 PM
Yes, you were wrong.

And BTW, Jelena and Venus were both asked if they would play the Night Match on that day and they both agreed, so you can stop useing that cheap excuse for Venus' loss against Justine. Not even Venus herself is useing it :wavey:

I know that :) But it still doesn't change the fact that Venus' anaemia caused her to play less than 100% in her match against Justine; in which you keep proclaiming that Venus played her ultimate best and still lost.

After her match against Justine, Venus sly-ly stated that she wasnt feeling hundred per-cent and was going in for tests [with regards to her anaemia]; so she was using her anaemia as a factor, so that' where you're wrong yet AGAIN.

Olórin
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:51 PM
By us classless, holier-than-thou Williams fans, of course..... ;)

Oh Darrin, you're not classless ;)

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:53 PM
Oh Darrin, you're not classless ;)
As I all-too-often say to my opponents on the court, nice shot. :yeah:

Matt01
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:56 PM
I know that :) But it still doesn't change the fact that Venus' anaemia caused her to play less than 100% in her match against Justine; in which you keep proclaiming that Venus played her ultimate best and still lost.

After her match against Justine, Venus sly-ly stated that she wasnt feeling hundred per-cent and was going in for tests [with regards to her anaemia]; so she was using her anaemia as a factor, so that' where you're wrong yet AGAIN.


I never said that Venus played her ultimate best against Justine.
I have said in other threads that Venus played one of her best matches in 2007 and still lost in straight sets to Justine. And I stand by that opinion.

And I don't think that Venus was using her "anemia" as an excuse for her loss like you did. She's way more classy than you and lots of her fans.

hingis-seles
Sep 12th, 2008, 10:59 PM
I'm not going to read all 237847 pages in this thread. Whatever the case, if their major rivals chose to retire and/or are suffering from injuries, that's not the Williams Sisters' fault. Just like Justine and Kim were deservingly at the top when Serena and Venus were out in '03-'04, so are the Sisters today. Retirements and injuries due to the game are a part of the sport - the Sisters can't be held responsible for the weaknesses and lack of desire of other potential rivals.

The only scenario where I would consider a what if would be something drastic like the Monica Seles stabbing which altered the game - but even with the that tragedy, you can't fault the players who took over and won, for they were deserving champions, defeating whoever was in front of them.

darrinbaker00
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:01 PM
I'm not going to read all 237847 pages in this thread. Whatever the case, if their major rivals chose to retire and/or are suffering from injuries, that's not the Williams Sisters' fault. Just like Justine and Kim were deservingly at the top when Serena and Venus were out in '03-'04, so are the Sisters today. Retirements and injuries due to the game are a part of the sport - the Sisters can't be held responsible for the weaknesses and lack of desire of other potential rivals.

The only scenario where I would consider a what if would be something drastic like the Monica Seles stabbing which altered the game - but even with the that tragedy, you can't fault the players who took over and won, for they were deserving champions, defeating whoever was in front of them.
That sounds too much like right. STOP IT!! :fiery:

Marshmallow
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:42 PM
In Venus case, she may have suffered from anemia at one point but I think it has been blown out of proportions.I know what I saw : Venus played at a great level in that match and it just happened that Henin was a bit better.After that match, Oracene claimed that Venus needed to go to the hospitaL ASAP cause she was in really bad state.If that was as serious as claimed, why did Venus play meaningless tournies in Asia (just to end withdrawing from YEC btw) ?
I ask this last year and no one came with an answer.

Hmmm... It's a tough question to answer, but really the best person to ask would be Vee herself. While at it, I'd also love to know why Venus played Doha-Memphis-Bangalore in consecutive weeks - a not so smart idea, why Venus insists on played WTT and Fed cup immediately after Wimbledon instead of resting for the hardcourts, and why for instance in Luxemburg Vee carried on playing when she injured her wrists (and needed surgery soon after). Considering these cases, I don't think it's clear cut to any of us why she played... perhaps her doctors told her her condition wouldn't get worse and she felt compelled to honour commitments and didn't think playing tier 3 and tier 4 opponents would be too taxing - plus visiting new cultures.

With all that said, I can't for the life of me understand how someone can watch the USO 2007 match and tell me there was nothing wrong with Venus, espeically in that second set. She called for the trainer twice, was gasping for air, holding her head at times. You can give Henin credit for playing a good match but it has to be selective blindness not to acknowledge Venus was not well. It just seemed so clear. She DID pull out of the YEC in the end too, so go figure what that tells us. But I do think that there is little doubt left that Venus is battling SOME illness considering her decision to take part of the clay season out to take further tests. Venus herself has been very secretive and generally never gives much away so really none of us understand the severity and nature of IT, but it seems apparent there is/ was something wrong. [Venus spoke of dizziness in her post match conference and was reported by those who saw her after her 07 semi match that she was slumping onto Hank (and it wasn't oracene who said this)].

My final bit of babble on the medical issue is that... Well look at Federer this year. He was battling Mono sometime early this year but carried on playing. He too was still able to play some lengthy intense matches (9-7 in the fifth against Tipsarevic), but perhaps the issue was in short-term recovery. Another plyer with some issue that didn't simply stop play all together for lengthy periods - these things are sometimes complex.

starin
Sep 12th, 2008, 11:58 PM
They have to play against GOATfina. I'd say that's tough enough.

Timariot
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:31 AM
I'm not going to read all 237847 pages in this thread. Whatever the case, if their major rivals chose to retire and/or are suffering from injuries, that's not the Williams Sisters' fault. Just like Justine and Kim were deservingly at the top when Serena and Venus were out in '03-'04, so are the Sisters today. Retirements and injuries due to the game are a part of the sport - the Sisters can't be held responsible for the weaknesses and lack of desire of other potential rivals.

The only scenario where I would consider a what if would be something drastic like the Monica Seles stabbing which altered the game - but even with the that tragedy, you can't fault the players who took over and won, for they were deserving champions, defeating whoever was in front of them.

Whoa, an overdose of common sense. I'm not sure I can handle this...

RVD
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:38 AM
I'm not going to read all 237847 pages in this thread. Whatever the case, if their major rivals chose to retire and/or are suffering from injuries, that's not the Williams Sisters' fault. Just like Justine and Kim were deservingly at the top when Serena and Venus were out in '03-'04, so are the Sisters today. Retirements and injuries due to the game are a part of the sport - the Sisters can't be held responsible for the weaknesses and lack of desire of other potential rivals.

The only scenario where I would consider a what if would be something drastic like the Monica Seles stabbing which altered the game - but even with the that tragedy, you can't fault the players who took over and won, for they were deserving champions, defeating whoever was in front of them.Very nicely stated. :worship:

In fact, you make too much damn sense! GET OUTTA HERE! ;)

Marshmallow
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:41 AM
Oh lawd... Hingis-seles just stole what I said in my first post. I feel like Melanie griffith in Working girl!

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Whoa, an overdose of common sense. I'm not sure I can handle this...

OMG, I guess the last person to say the very same thing as someone else gets all of the credit. :rolleyes:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=14042286&postcount=116

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:12 AM
Oh lawd... Hingis-seles just stole what I said in my first post. I feel like Melanie griffith in Working girl!

You too??? :eek:

G1Player2
Sep 13th, 2008, 02:41 AM
You trolls are something else. :lol: Spamming and posting in this thread because you are sad and bitter that Venus and Serena won slams this year and Serena is back at No.1. :lol: I told myself I wouldn't post in this bait thread and I certainly didn't want to contribute to the 20+ pages, but I couldn't resist.

Anyway, get use to the WS train, hop on it, or get derailed. I'll just let their racket do the rest of the talking. :lol:

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 02:43 AM
You trolls are something else. :lol: Spamming and posting in this thread because you are sad and bitter that Venus and Serena won slams this year and Serena is back at No.1. :lol: I told myself I wouldn't post in this bait thread and I certainly didn't want to contribute to the 20+ pages, but I couldn't resist.

Anyway, get use to the WS train, hop on it, or get derailed. I'll just let their racket do the rest of the talking. :lol:

I'm on it. :drive: :lol: :worship:

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 13th, 2008, 03:10 AM
OMG, I guess the last person to say the very same thing as someone else gets all of the credit. :rolleyes:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=14042286&postcount=116

hey i said that before you!!!!!! :(

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 03:38 AM
hey i said that before you!!!!!! :(

:lol: Hey, we all got dissed. :rolls:

VS Fan
Sep 13th, 2008, 04:30 AM
Yeah... this is the SAME reason Team Williams won TWO majors in 2003, 2005, 2007, and 2008. Also Serena THREE in 2002, Venus TWO in 2001 and Venus TWO in 2000. Did I mention Serena ONE in 1999?
Yeah... I guess based on the above evidence, Team Williams is just WASHED UP, and dependent on other players retiring or choking to steal their SIXTEEN Grand Slam Titles.
Thank you for enlightening me!

In The Zone
Sep 13th, 2008, 04:33 AM
The Williams Sisters' recent success can be summarized by two things, which are not mutually exclusive: (1) they are healthy and playing consistently and (2) when one does well, it urges the other on.

Bottom line.

cehowardrx7
Sep 13th, 2008, 09:43 AM
You trolls are something else. :lol: Spamming and posting in this thread because you are sad and bitter that Venus and Serena won slams this year and Serena is back at No.1. :lol: I told myself I wouldn't post in this bait thread and I certainly didn't want to contribute to the 20+ pages, but I couldn't resist.

Anyway, get use to the WS train, hop on it, or get derailed. I'll just let their racket do the rest of the talking. :lol:


You are way better than me..:yeah:

I fell for the bait, hook, line and sinker!!:lol:

cehowardrx7
Sep 13th, 2008, 09:49 AM
I'm not going to read all 237847 pages in this thread. Whatever the case, if their major rivals chose to retire and/or are suffering from injuries, that's not the Williams Sisters' fault. Just like Justine and Kim were deservingly at the top when Serena and Venus were out in '03-'04, so are the Sisters today. Retirements and injuries due to the game are a part of the sport - the Sisters can't be held responsible for the weaknesses and lack of desire of other potential rivals.

The only scenario where I would consider a what if would be something drastic like the Monica Seles stabbing which altered the game - but even with the that tragedy, you can't fault the players who took over and won, for they were deserving champions, defeating whoever was in front of them.

Hey man, you copied my topic!! grrrrrreeerrrrrr1!:mad:

I mentioned in my first rebuttal to this WHINING THREAD, that the only setback I saw in tennis was when that crazy HATER stabbed Seles, and then Graf went on to win those slams. All that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the Seles being stabbed. And the stabbers confessed that the reason he stabbed Seles was to keep her from beating Graf.

Anyway, just kiddin on being mad..;)

Great post..:yeah:

Lindsayfan32
Sep 13th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Serena and Venus win a major 2 seasons in a row and some people think about how weak the Womens game is dead.

Shut up for once the WS are champions stop acting like they are scrubs and cant win anything if thier rivals are playing

I don't agree with the original poster in the case of Venus as Venus is a cut above the rest on grass but I do agree in case of Serena if everyone was fully fit and all the top players were playing right now Serena would've have won the US open or even come close case in point the Australian open she comes against Jankovic and is beaten she is no where near as good as she like to think she is pure and simple.

vettipooh
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:14 PM
I don't agree with the original poster in the case of Venus as Venus is a cut above the rest on grass but I do agree in case of Serena if everyone was fully fit and all the top players were playing right now Serena would've have won the US open or even come close case in point the Australian open she comes against Jankovic and is beaten she is no where near as good as she like to think she is pure and simple.
Huh? :confused: Did you mean Serena would not have? Anyway she faced an in-form JJ at US Open :shrug: ;)

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:31 PM
I don't agree with the original poster in the case of Venus as Venus is a cut above the rest on grass but I do agree in case of Serena if everyone was fully fit and all the top players were playing right now Serena would've have won the US open or even come close case in point the Australian open she comes against Jankovic and is beaten she is no where near as good as she like to think she is pure and simple.

bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :haha: :haha:

crazillo
Sep 13th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Well of course they benefit from others not competing anymore, but it's not their fault.

In former generations, there always was some kind of a mixture between established champions and young-guns coming up. Now it seems nothing is really sorted out yet, and that's why it doesn't seem so great right now... But the WTA is def. getting more one-sided and has less characters who speal out their mind...

So all in all I def. preferred former times, but I won't give up on tennis yet. :p

iPatty
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:02 PM
I have absolutely nothing to add because it has all been said repeatedly and this thread should have been closed by now, but I just wanted to say that this:

ummmm so what happened when the sisters weren't playing??? everyone else should give back their titles because the sisters were not playing :wavey: jh has to give up her 03 us open and 04 AO title, 07 us open title because clearly serena/venus were not in their best physical condition....so i'd say jh and the others have to give back their titles since obviously the sisters were sidelined

03- both left the tour due to career threatening injuries (give back your US Open jh)
04- came back but were not the same as the previous two years (give back your AO title jh, FO title Mys. Wimbly title Masha, US Open Kuzzy)
05- serena won AO then was sidelined the rest of the year/venus won wimbly and that was it (so give back your RG title jh and US Open title Kim)
06- both were sidelined with injuries the majority of the year (give back your AO and Wimbly titles MoMo, your RG title jh and your US Open title Masha)
07- serena couldn't sustain her momentum after winning AO/Miami and became out of shape, venus had anaemia and couldn't last in long matches but won wimbledon just cause its grass (give back your RG and US Open titles jh)
08- serena/venus played like **** in their QF and 3rd rd losses at the AO and RG (give back your AO title masha, but you can keep yours ana :angel: )

14 GS titles should belong to venus/serena since they were sidelined by injuries a lot and the others only won their titles because of this :)

...is one of the worst posts I have ever read on this board.

jamesuk
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Another pathetic thread with the intention to stir up conflict on this board.

Well done to all who participated

Corswandt
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Serena was not in top form at the 2007 French Open. Stop lying. She did not play any clay warm-ups before RG '07 and hardly any tennis after AO '07 because she had dental surgery.

CHARLESTON
VS, I, USA, SC, April 15, 2007, $ 1,340,000 , CLAY (O)
Draw: 64M/32Q/32D, Rank: 11, Seed/Entry: 3

Rnd Opponent Rank W/L Score
R64 BYE
R32 H2H (Q) CHAN, YUNG-JAN TPE 92 L 5-3 ret.
WTA Championship Pts: 1 WTA Ranking Pts.: 1 Prize Money: $6265

ROME
VS, I, ITALY, May 20, 2007, $ 1,340,000 , CLAY (O)
Draw: 64M/32Q/32D, Rank: 11, Seed/Entry: 8

Rnd Opponent Rank W/L Score
R64 BYE
R32 H2H (L) KRAJICEK, MICHAELLA NED 39 W 6-4 6-1
R16 H2H (11) PEER, SHAHAR ISR 15 W 6-3 6-3
Q H2H (14) SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI 17 L 6-3 2-6 7-6(5)
WTA Championship Pts: 110 WTA Ranking Pts.: 110 Prize Money: $24075

---------------

I agree with the "stop lying" bit.

Lindsayfan32
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Another pathetic thread with the intention to stir up conflict on this board.

Well done to all who participated

If you don't like what's in a thread there's a simple solution. Don't post in it and leave people alone who want to take part in the discussion. :mad:

sweetpeas
Sep 13th, 2008, 01:41 PM
It"s just silly...Venus and Serena beat all these people before any injures!

cehowardrx7
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:03 PM
I don't agree with the original poster in the case of Venus as Venus is a cut above the rest on grass but I do agree in case of Serena if everyone was fully fit and all the top players were playing right now Serena would've have won the US open or even come close case in point the Australian open she comes against Jankovic and is beaten she is no where near as good as she like to think she is pure and simple.

This post is confusing to say the least! :lol: I am senile, so be plain!!:lol:

is that phrase I have in bold meant to be "Serena would NOT have won"???

Other than that, your post was a good whining post!! :lol:

Timariot
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:32 PM
OMG, I guess the last person to say the very same thing as someone else gets all of the credit. :rolleyes:


Now wait a minute, weren't you the very person who said, and I quote:
The only time Henin or anyone else beat Serena or Vee on hardcourt or grass was when they weren't in top form.
Why yes, indeed you were! Now from what you wanted to get credit from, other than demonstrating yourself to be just as daft as the thread starter?

Timariot
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:33 PM
I have absolutely nothing to add because it has all been said repeatedly and this thread should have been closed by now, but I just wanted to say that this:
<snip>
...is one of the worst posts I have ever read on this board.

It's sarcasm. I hope so, anyway.

Don't hate the playah, hate the game.

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:47 PM
CHARLESTON
VS, I, USA, SC, April 15, 2007, $ 1,340,000 , CLAY (O)
Draw: 64M/32Q/32D, Rank: 11, Seed/Entry: 3

Rnd Opponent Rank W/L Score
R64 BYE
R32 H2H (Q) CHAN, YUNG-JAN TPE 92 L 5-3 ret.
WTA Championship Pts: 1 WTA Ranking Pts.: 1 Prize Money: $6265

ROME
VS, I, ITALY, May 20, 2007, $ 1,340,000 , CLAY (O)
Draw: 64M/32Q/32D, Rank: 11, Seed/Entry: 8

Rnd Opponent Rank W/L Score
R64 BYE
R32 H2H (L) KRAJICEK, MICHAELLA NED 39 W 6-4 6-1
R16 H2H (11) PEER, SHAHAR ISR 15 W 6-3 6-3
Q H2H (14) SCHNYDER, PATTY SUI 17 L 6-3 2-6 7-6(5)
WTA Championship Pts: 110 WTA Ranking Pts.: 110 Prize Money: $24075

---------------

I agree with the "stop lying" bit.

Okay, along with a few others, I forgot about the warm-ups she played last year. So, it wasn't a lie, just my old age. :p But, what's your point? I still stand by the fact that she wasn't in form going into the French. She still wasn't in form and you can't argue from these stats that she was. Going out in the second round at Charleston (which she won this year) due to injury and the quarters in Rome against Patty. Come on. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 05:56 PM
Now wait a minute, weren't you the very person who said, and I quote:
The only time Henin or anyone else beat Serena or Vee on hardcourt or grass was when they weren't in top form.
Why yes, indeed you were! Now from what you wanted to get credit from, other than demonstrating yourself to be just as daft as the thread starter?

:lol: I don't need credit from the likes of your daft ass. I stand by what I said. Justine has never beaten Venus or Serena on grass or hardcourt when they were in top form and in the case of Serena, when she was in top form at RG '03, Justine had to cheat to win. :shrug: Name one player who did beat them on those surfaces when they were in top form. So, yeah I said it, and I also said the very same thing hingis-seles said, who you bowed down and praised. Not that it even matters to me what you think, but this post is just another attempt to discredit me, just like you attempt to discredit the WS. :rolleyes:

Talk about me being as daft as the thread starter, aren't you the one who said this:

Venus & Serena won a lot because Hingis and Davenport suffered a mental and physical burnout.

How daft is that? :lol:

Dave.
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Denise are you winding people up again or are you serious this time? :o

Serena's 2007 season was her best season since 2004. She was playing a high level of tennis throughout the year. Henin was simply too good for everyone. If you're saying Serena and Venus aren't in top form every time they lose on hard or grass, then you're suggesting they spend quite a bit of time out of form. That is untrue and almost insulting to them, because great champions don't spend so much time out of form.




How daft is that? :lol:

I'm not agreeing with that statement, but Hingis and Davenport were both stuggling with various problems when the Williams sisters took over the top 2.

UDACHi
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:15 PM
:rolls:
can't tell if this is a serious thread, but nice to see a reversal of the usual "everyone who is good would suck if the williams sisters were healthy" threads.

iPatty
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:19 PM
It's sarcasm. I hope so, anyway.

Don't hate the playah, hate the game.

Now that I read it again, I guess it could be. Still he sounds really serious, which is quite sad.

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Denise are you winding people up again or are you serious this time? :o

Serena's 2007 season was her best season since 2004. She was playing a high level of tennis throughout the year. Henin was simply too good for everyone. If you're saying Serena and Venus aren't in top form every time they lose on hard or grass, then you're suggesting they spend quite a bit of time out of form. That is untrue and almost insulting to them, because great champions don't spend so much time out of form.



I'm not agreeing with that statement, but Hingis and Davenport were both stuggling with various problems when the Williams sisters took over the top 2.

No, I'm serious. I do believe that everytime they are beaten on those surfaces, they were not in top form. I didn't say they weren't in form, I said they weren't in top form. There's a difference. I do believe that from 2003 to present, they have not always been in top form. They haven't been in top form for quite a while. I don't think it's an insult to them, because it's true and they know it. That doesn't take away from them being great champions, but they've had a lot of injuries and illnesses over the years and a lot of personal issues that have kept them from being in top form. What makes them great champions to me, is that yeah they've had some issues, but they continue to pick themselves up and come back to compete. A great champion never quits, unless they can't compete physically any more.

I disagree that Henin was that good, period.

With regard to Hinigs and Davenport, I'm not sure if you were watching tennis from 1999-2001, but I don't remember them struggling during that time. Martina Hingis was still playing 20 tournaments a season, which is why she stayed at No. 1. I don't know what issues Lindsay was experiencing, but she was still playing deep into draws. They just were not winning slams because Venus was too good on hardcourt and grass. Then you had JenCap in the mix. That AO final between her and Martina was fabulous tennis. The only struggle Martina had physically in that final was the heat.

Dave.
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:32 PM
No, I'm serious. I do believe that everytime they are beaten on those surfaces, they were not in top form. I didn't say they weren't in form, I said they weren't in top form. There's a difference. I do believe that from 2003 to present, they have not always been in top form. They haven't been in top form for quite a while. I don't think it's an insult to them, because it's true and they know it. That doesn't take away from them being great champions, but they've had a lot of injuries and illnesses over the years and a lot of personal issues that have kept them from being in top form. What makes them great champions to me, is that yeah they've had some issues, but they continue to pick themselves up and come back to compete. A great champion never quits, unless they can't compete physically any more.

I disagree that Henin was that good, period.

Ok, they weren't in top form everytime they lost on those surfaces? That's a fair point, but can also be said about most other top players. Very rarely, if ever, do top players in top form lose (I can only think of 1 match that Davenport has lost on grass where she was playing her best, and she was injured).

Although alot of the time, the reason they aren't in top form is because of the person on the other side of the net, whether it's pshychological or something they are doing on the court.

Denise4925
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Ok, they weren't in top form everytime they lost on those surfaces? That's a fair point, but can also be said about most other top players. Very rarely, if ever, do top players in top form lose (I can only think of 1 match that Davenport has lost on grass where she was playing her best, and she was injured).

Although alot of the time, the reason they aren't in top form is because of the person on the other side of the net, whether it's pshychological or something they are doing on the court.

Well, I can't speak for any other top players because I don't follow them as closely as I follow Vee and Rena. But, I know that's not true for them. If they are in top form, they are going to figure out how to win the match if they are down.

Demska
Sep 13th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Denise4925 63
sammy01 18
shell 18
darrinbaker00 17
MЯ iGlenn™ 16
Timariot 14

:yawn:

Stop trolling and go buy a hamster.

shell
Sep 13th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Denise4925 63
sammy01 18
shell 18
darrinbaker00 17
M? iGlenn™ 16
Timariot 14

:yawn:

Stop trolling and go buy a hamster.

Now, I'm not really sure what you do with your hamster, but I have never had one nor do I reallly want one. But thanks for asking.

Olórin
Sep 13th, 2008, 10:35 PM
Denise are you winding people up again or are you serious this time? :o

Serena's 2007 season was her best season since 2004. She was playing a high level of tennis throughout the year. Henin was simply too good for everyone. If you're saying Serena and Venus aren't in top form every time they lose on hard or grass, then you're suggesting they spend quite a bit of time out of form. That is untrue and almost insulting to them, because great champions don't spend so much time out of form.

With regards to one particular match, the USO QF against Henin. Serena was in awful form, she was out of shape, and was coming off a couple of month injury lay off. The standard she showed there was very different to earlier on in the year.



I'm not agreeing with that statement, but Hingis and Davenport were both stuggling with various problems when the Williams sisters took over the top 2.

Venus and Capriati were the top two players in the world when Serena first entered the top two. They were holding the slams between them. Hingis and Davenport were not even remotely in the question :shrug:

Olórin
Sep 13th, 2008, 10:44 PM
When Serena had her period of success in 2002 she had to beat the defending champion to win every and each slam. She had to do it in the SF/F/F: the business end of the tournament. At the 2003 Australian Open, the defending champion lost in the first round, but Serena had beaten her the last six times in a row anyway. In any case the maxim "winning while the competition is weaker" certainly doesn't seem to apply to Serena.

Even in the slams since then, she's had to beat a reigning Grand Slam Champion to win all of them.

She's simply a champion of the highest calibre, who beats opponents of the highest calibre to win her titles and to shape her greatness. It's not even a discussion.

Matt01
Sep 13th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Venus and Capriati were the top two players in the world when Serena first entered the top two. They were holding the slams between them. Hingis and Davenport were not even remotely in the question :shrug:


Davenport was the #1 at the end of 2001 and then couldn't play in 2002for the most part. Hingis was coming back from injury in 2002 and reached the final of the first Slam of the year (and not Venus or Serena).

Nice try, though :yeah:

Olórin
Sep 13th, 2008, 10:57 PM
Davenport was the #1 at the end of 2001 and then couldn't play in 2002for the most part. Hingis was coming back from injury in 2002 and reached the final of the first Slam of the year (and not Venus or Serena).

Nice try, though :yeah:

As usual your intellectual incompetence and ignorance embarasses you. Lindsay was number one, although she herself said she was not comfortable with the ranking and didn't feel like the number one player. And she was correct, she wasn't.

Hingis was coming back from injury, but again getting to one Grand Slam final doesn't make you a top two player, which is what I was talking about.

Nice try though :yeah: (Well not really, but you do try, bless ya :p )

Matt01
Sep 13th, 2008, 11:07 PM
As usual your intellectual incompetence and ignorance embarasses you. )


That's ironic, coming from you. Your extreme biases everytime when it come to the WS are a little bit too obvious, so your opinions about those topics have absolutely no value IMHO.

Olórin
Sep 13th, 2008, 11:08 PM
That's ironic, coming from you. Your extreme biases everytime when it come to the WS are a little bit too obvious, so your opinions about those topics have absolutely no value IMHO.

Well your opinion is rightfully humble, so I'll just dismiss it if that's ok with you.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 13th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Well your opinion is rightfully humble, so I'll just dismiss it if that's ok with you.

Constantly the most terse and intelligent poster I read on here, and I would disagree with Matt that you are subjective, you seem very fair to me and fricking hilarious :cool:

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 14th, 2008, 12:30 AM
Now that I read it again, I guess it could be. Still he sounds really serious, which is quite sad.

i'm a she...and its called sarcasm :weirdo:

Marshmallow
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:23 AM
ummmm so what happened when the sisters weren't playing??? everyone else should give back their titles because the sisters were not playing :wavey: jh has to give up her 03 us open and 04 AO title, 07 us open title because clearly serena/venus were not in their best physical condition....so i'd say jh and the others have to give back their titles since obviously the sisters were sidelined

03- both left the tour due to career threatening injuries (give back your US Open jh)
04- came back but were not the same as the previous two years (give back your AO title jh, FO title Mys. Wimbly title Masha, US Open Kuzzy)
05- serena won AO then was sidelined the rest of the year/venus won wimbly and that was it (so give back your RG title jh and US Open title Kim)
06- both were sidelined with injuries the majority of the year (give back your AO and Wimbly titles MoMo, your RG title jh and your US Open title Masha)
07- serena couldn't sustain her momentum after winning AO/Miami and became out of shape, venus had anaemia and couldn't last in long matches but won wimbledon just cause its grass (give back your RG and US Open titles jh)
08- serena/venus played like **** in their QF and 3rd rd losses at the AO and RG (give back your AO title masha, but you can keep yours ana :angel: )

14 GS titles should belong to venus/serena since they were sidelined by injuries a lot and the others only won their titles because of this :)

Pay no mind to him Team, you made a good point actually. This entire thread is based on shoulda, coulda, hypothetical coulda. Hypothetically, had Serena and Venus not gotten the injuries in 2003 - who knows exactly how many other players would have won slams up to today. You only have to look to that Chris evert letter for support.

http://**************/forums/images/smilies/humor/smiley-cheer.gif

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:32 AM
Denise are you winding people up again or are you serious this time? :o

Serena's 2007 season was her best season since 2004. She was playing a high level of tennis throughout the year. Henin was simply too good for everyone. If you're saying Serena and Venus aren't in top form every time they lose on hard or grass, then you're suggesting they spend quite a bit of time out of form. That is untrue and almost insulting to them, because great champions don't spend so much time out of form.



I'm not agreeing with that statement, but Hingis and Davenport were both stuggling with various problems when the Williams sisters took over the top 2.

Hingis wasn't struggling at all, she had no injury and she went away cause she couldn't handle the pace. It was publish that Hingis had no serious chronic ankle injury at all during her career, even the doctors she claimed to have diagnosed that, said it could have been easily fixed by a minor injury.

Davenport on the other hand had some problems, but still, at her best she wouldn't have been able to put venus nor serena away.

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:35 AM
That's ironic, coming from you. Your extreme biases everytime when it come to the WS are a little bit too obvious, so your opinions about those topics have absolutely no value IMHO.

Like the shit you are talking has any value. It's easily comparable with something rotting away in the gutter.

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:48 AM
You said earlier that Venus had less than a day off between her matches against Jelena and Justine, you were proven wrong by me and now you say that I need to get my facts straight? Obviously you have the IQ of a hamster.

If we did a poll test about your iq, you'd finally have had a test you didn't fail on.

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 01:52 AM
Wow, and you took that seriously too. :unsure:

Some people can't devide reality from jokes... Given the fact they are all living in their all imaginary world with elves and trolls.

Dave.
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:10 AM
Hingis wasn't struggling at all, she had no injury and she went away cause she couldn't handle the pace. It was publish that Hingis had no serious chronic ankle injury at all during her career, even the doctors she claimed to have diagnosed that, said it could have been easily fixed by a minor injury.

Davenport on the other hand had some problems, but still, at her best she wouldn't have been able to put venus nor serena away.

What I meant was, rankings-wise, it is unlikely the Williams sisters would have got to the top 2 places had Davenport and Hingis not had their own problems at the time. And please, Davenport has had plenty of wins over them.

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:12 AM
What I meant was, rankings-wise, it is unlikely the Williams sisters would have got to the top 2 places had Davenport and Hingis not had their own problems at the time. And please, Davenport has had plenty of wins over them.

Yeah because they weren't good enough. Anybody can beat davenport once u get her running, and thats what they figured out, and since then the owned davenport. I do love davenport but I'm realistic.

If they had injuries or not, doesn't matter. If graff was still around with a great physique, Hingis would have never won many slams anyway. We all know that.

Dave.
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:20 AM
Yeah because they weren't good enough. Anybody can beat davenport once u get her running, and thats what they figured out, and since then the owned davenport. I do love davenport but I'm realistic.

If they had injuries or not, doesn't matter. If graff was still around with a great physique, Hingis would have never won many slams anyway. We all know that.

Um, no. Lindsay's 753-194 record speaks for itself. I don't know what you mean by "anyone" can beat Davenport. Of all the top players of their generation, Davenport has probably had the least suspect losses (no Srebotniks or Pennettas have beaten her while she was at the top). And there was a time when Davenport dominated Venus. As for Serena, she's always been the worst matchup for Lindsay, but alot of Serena's wins were very close matches.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:27 AM
Um, no. Lindsay's 753-194 record speaks for itself. I don't know what you mean by "anyone" can beat Davenport. Of all the top players of their generation, Davenport has probably had the least suspect losses (no Srebotniks or Pennettas have beaten her while she was at the top). And there was a time when Davenport dominated Venus. As for Serena, she's always been the worst matchup for Lindsay, but alot of Serena's wins were very close matches.

This whole conversation is nonsense. Tennis players do the job they are given, they play the best players available. Everyone who wins 7/9 major titles is a legend, regardless of who was injured or whatever. With the exception of Justine Venus and Serena are undoubtedly the best of their generation, so talking backwards and forwards about the shoulda woulda couldas will do nothing to tarnish their achievments.

On your point about the suspect losses, the Williamses were not 'on top' during those losses :lol: and even if they were who cares, they win big when it counts more than Davers ever did. Although I do :hearts: her.

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:30 AM
Um, no. Lindsay's 753-194 record speaks for itself. I don't know what you mean by "anyone" can beat Davenport. Of all the top players of their generation, Davenport has probably had the least suspect losses (no Srebotniks or Pennettas have beaten her while she was at the top). And there was a time when Davenport dominated Venus. As for Serena, she's always been the worst matchup for Lindsay, but alot of Serena's wins were very close matches.

A win is a win. Serena and Venus own Davenport, if they lose it's because Davenport played above her capacity or that Venus and Serena errored themselves out of the match.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:33 AM
A win is a win. Serena and Venus own Davenport, if they lose it's because Davenport played above her capacity or that Venus and Serena errored themselves out of the match.

I disagree. Davenport is and was a fabulous player able to cope with, and at her best totally outplay every player even the Williamses. How can you say Vee owns Lindsay when the head to head is in favour of Lindsay. What one could say is that Venus and Serena own her on the big stage.

Dave.
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:35 AM
This whole conversation is nonsense. Tennis players do the job they are given, they play the best players available. Everyone who wins 7/9 major titles is a legend, regardless of who was injured or whatever. With the exception of Justine Venus and Serena are undoubtedly the best of their generation, so talking backwards and forwards about the shoulda woulda couldas will do nothing to tarnish their achievments.

On your point about the suspect losses, the Williamses were not 'on top' during those losses :lol: and even if they were who cares, they win big when it counts more than Davers ever did. Although I do :hearts: her.

I'm not denying that they are great players who have obviously done better at slams than Davenport has. I agree, the conversation and this whole thread has gone crazy. I was replying to the little comments like Dav can lose to anyone/she's not a threat etc. which I disagree with. I wasen't taking anything away from Serena or Venus'' wins, they have proved many times they can beat the best players when it counts most.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:38 AM
I'm not denying that they are great players who have obviously done better at slams than Davenport has. I agree, the conversation and this whole thread has gone crazy. I was replying to the little comments like Dav can lose to anyone/she's not a threat etc. which I disagree with. I wasen't taking anything away from Serena or Venus'' wins, they have proved many times they can beat the best players when it counts most.

:lol: ^^^^ See my above post. I know, these threads can get so out of hand.

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:43 AM
I'm not denying that they are great players who have obviously done better at slams than Davenport has. I agree, the conversation and this whole thread has gone crazy. I was replying to the little comments like Dav can lose to anyone/she's not a threat etc. which I disagree with. I wasen't taking anything away from Serena or Venus'' wins, they have proved many times they can beat the best players when it counts most.

With anyone i meant, who can make her run. If you make davenport run a lot the whole time, she'll mostly not win that match, since all her losses were caused by her sluggish movement, same for Serena.

Dave.
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:46 AM
:lol: ^^^^ See my above post. I know, these threads can get so out of hand.

I saw it and totally agree :worship: The Linds-Venus rivalry is perhaps my all-time favourite matchup, and she's had many entertaining matches with Serena too.

You put it perfectly, both Venus and Serena have always seemed to find that bit extra on the big stage against Lindsay when it gets close.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:51 AM
I saw it and totally agree :worship: The Linds-Venus rivalry is perhaps my all-time favourite matchup, and she's had many entertaining matches with Serena too.

You put it perfectly, both Venus and Serena have always seemed to find that bit extra on the big stage against Lindsay when it gets close.

Well thanx and good night sir, cuz i'm in the UK too and I'm wrecked :o:lol: you and Mr Glenn can verbally slug it out till dawn then!!!!!!!

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:55 AM
Nah I'm gonna go to bed, wish you all a good night ! :hug:

Dave.
Sep 14th, 2008, 02:58 AM
Yeah i'm pretty much sick of this thread now :lol: and it's 3:50am here too but i guess that's just not late enough to go to sleep anymore :o

serenafan08
Sep 14th, 2008, 03:24 AM
:rolleyes: It's not Serena and Venus's fault that their competition couldn't stay up to the task of being the best in the world. The Williams sisters have outlasted everybody - whatever the excuse. They'll still be around for another five years too.

rjd1111
Sep 14th, 2008, 04:49 AM
I dont want to show a disrespect for 2008 Wimbledon and USOpen performances of Serena and Venus. They won the trophies fair and fair. However, the WTA is in a truly awful state. Take a look at the condition of the former rivals and supposed up-and-coming challengers and tell me the Williams arent beneficiaries:


Kim Clijsters: Quit the WTA at age 23
Justine Henin: Quit the WTA at age 25 (after owning Williams in '07)
Masha Sharapova: 2008 has been a non-year for her after Aus Open
Ana Ivanovic: Played like average Top 30 player at Wimby/USO
Amelie Mauresmo: Satisfied & complacent with her 2 GS in '06
Nicole Vaidisova: Supposed next WTA big star is a train wreck
Tati Golovin: Repeated injuries destroy her chances to be top player
Sveta Kuznetsova: Appears simply not to give a damn
Jelena Jankovic: The weakest #1 player in the history of pro tennis
Anna Chakvetadze: Her 2007 successes now appear simply a fluke
Martina Hingis: Her comeback had potential but ended with a thud

not to mention smaller scale disasters of players once touted as the "future of womens tennis" like Shahar Peer, Sania Mirza, Michaella Krajicek, Tamira Paszek, Lucie Safarova, etc. If the WTA was in any kind of normal shape I doubt the Williams would be able to winning GS titles, except maybe at Wimby. Safina and Dementieva are really the only players this year performing up to standard, but both suffer from serious built-in weaknesses that kept them from winning a GS this year.



The Williams aren't the beneficiaries of anything. They were beating
Clisters butt for years except for one YEC. They have been beating Henin
for years except for her brief run at the end of last year. Henin made
a career winning when the Sisters were injured and Cheating. Things went
back to normal at Miami this year. They ( especially Serena ) have owned
Pova's ass since '04 and they have been beating all those others all along.

There is no lack of talent in the WTA. There are two players who, despite

a few lapses due to injury, death in the family, or whatever, continue

to do what they have done for ten years. Kick Ass and take names showing

over and over again that they are the best at what they do when they put

their minds to it. They won during the American era, The belgian era, the

Russian era, and in what was touted as the Serbian era after the FO

it was the Sisters who won the next 2 slams. I say the last ten years

has been the Williams Era. And its still going strong.

Two Sisters the best players in the same sport. When will some people

stop trying to put down their accomplishments and learn to appreciate

seeing something in sports that has never been and may never be again.

J.Bravo
Sep 14th, 2008, 04:54 AM
:worship:The Williams aren't the beneficiaries of anything. They were beating
Clisters butt for years except for one YEC. They have been beating Henin
for years except for her brief run at the end of last year. Henin made
a career winning when the Sisters were injured and Cheating. Things went
back to normal at Miami this year. They ( especially Serena ) have owned
Pova's ass since '04 and they have been beating all those others all along.

There is no lack of talent in the WTA. There are two players who, despite

a few lapses due to injury, death in the family, or whatever, continue

to do what they have done for ten years. Kick Ass and take names showing

over and over again that they are the best at what they do when they put

their minds to it. They won during the American era, The belgian era, the

Russian era, and in what was touted as the Serbian era after the FO

it was the Sisters who won the next 2 slams. I say the last ten years

has been the Williams Era. And its still going strong.

Two Sisters the best players in the same sport. When will some people

stop trying to put down their accomplishments and learn to appreciate

seeing something in sports that has never been and may never be again.

Matt01
Sep 14th, 2008, 09:27 AM
Like the shit you are talking has any value. It's easily comparable with something rotting away in the gutter.

If we did a poll test about your iq, you'd finally have had a test you didn't fail on.

I won't even bother replying to the BS you are spreading about Davenport..."anyone can beat her" --> Yeah right :lol:

youizahoe
Sep 14th, 2008, 11:36 AM
And I won't even bother replying to the BS you are spreading about Davenport..."anyone can beat her" --> Yeah right :lol:



Hi How are you?

I meant anyone who can make her move around, get some glasses, you might be able to read for once in your life.

:yeah:

-VSR-
Sep 14th, 2008, 04:33 PM
Let's end this discussion:

Serena: 9
Venus: 7
Justine: 7
Hingis: 5
Sharapova: 3
Davenport: 3
Mauresmo: 2
Ivanovic: 1
Kuznetsova: 1
Clijsters: 1

End of.

mdterp01
Sep 14th, 2008, 06:46 PM
It is what it is...just like Justine and others benefited after Wimbledon 2003 when Serena had to have knee surgery, Venus had injuries, and their sister was killed. So your point would be? This happens all the time in tennis. Didn't Steffi Graf benefit from the stabbing of Monica Seles? I mean really people! :rolleyes:

mdterp01
Sep 14th, 2008, 06:48 PM
The Williams aren't the beneficiaries of anything. They were beating
Clisters butt for years except for one YEC. They have been beating Henin
for years except for her brief run at the end of last year. Henin made
a career winning when the Sisters were injured and Cheating. Things went
back to normal at Miami this year. They ( especially Serena ) have owned
Pova's ass since '04 and they have been beating all those others all along.

There is no lack of talent in the WTA. There are two players who, despite

a few lapses due to injury, death in the family, or whatever, continue

to do what they have done for ten years. Kick Ass and take names showing

over and over again that they are the best at what they do when they put

their minds to it. They won during the American era, The belgian era, the

Russian era, and in what was touted as the Serbian era after the FO

it was the Sisters who won the next 2 slams. I say the last ten years

has been the Williams Era. And its still going strong.

Two Sisters the best players in the same sport. When will some people

stop trying to put down their accomplishments and learn to appreciate

seeing something in sports that has never been and may never be again.

:worship::hearts::yeah:

frontier
Sep 15th, 2008, 02:12 AM
Why don't you go back to your disgusting "Justine and family"-bashing? You were much better at that :yeah:

And I won't even bother replying to the BS you are spreading about Davenport..."anyone can beat her" --> Yeah right :lol:

Troll.look at what the cat dragged in:cuckoo:

Denise4925
Sep 15th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Um, no. Lindsay's 753-194 record speaks for itself. I don't know what you mean by "anyone" can beat Davenport. Of all the top players of their generation, Davenport has probably had the least suspect losses (no Srebotniks or Pennettas have beaten her while she was at the top). And there was a time when Davenport dominated Venus. As for Serena, she's always been the worst matchup for Lindsay, but alot of Serena's wins were very close matches.

That's true of Venus and Serena also when they were at the top. :shrug:

Dave.
Sep 15th, 2008, 04:13 PM
That's true of Venus and Serena also when they were at the top. :shrug:

By top I meant ranked inside the top 10, holding a slam title or being in some sort of form. Venus has had a number of early round slam losses throughout the decade and Serena has had a few too. Lindsay, didn't matter what form she was in, always made the second week of slams (there was 1 occasion between 1998-2007 that she didn't). My point was that not "anybody" can beat Lindsay.

Denise4925
Sep 15th, 2008, 04:14 PM
By top I meant ranked inside the top 10, holding a slam title or being in some sort of form. Venus has had a number of early round slam losses throughout the decade and Serena has had a few too. Lindsay, didn't matter what form she was in, always made the second week of slams (there was 1 occasion between 1998-2007 that she didn't). My point was that not "anybody" can beat Lindsay.

Oh, I thought you were talking about at the top of the rankings. But, I agree about Linds. She's one of my faves outside of Vee and Rena.

Geisha
Sep 15th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Denise are you winding people up again or are you serious this time? :o

Serena's 2007 season was her best season since 2004. She was playing a high level of tennis throughout the year. Henin was simply too good for everyone. If you're saying Serena and Venus aren't in top form every time they lose on hard or grass, then you're suggesting they spend quite a bit of time out of form. That is untrue and almost insulting to them, because great champions don't spend so much time out of form.



I'm not agreeing with that statement, but Hingis and Davenport were both stuggling with various problems when the Williams sisters took over the top 2.

Venus and Serena had been kicking Hingis' and Davenport's butts way before they got to #1 and #2.

Geisha
Sep 15th, 2008, 07:53 PM
What I meant was, rankings-wise, it is unlikely the Williams sisters would have got to the top 2 places had Davenport and Hingis not had their own problems at the time. And please, Davenport has had plenty of wins over them.

Yeah right!

Venus was beating Lindsay left, right, and center before and after her injury problems. Serena was dominant in 2002. Lindsay could have served 120 MPH bombs and Serena would've beaten her routinely.

Geisha
Sep 15th, 2008, 07:56 PM
A win is a win. Serena and Venus own Davenport, if they lose it's because Davenport played above her capacity or that Venus and Serena errored themselves out of the match.

Venus has a losing record against Davenport, doesn't she? Venus didn't own her. At one point, she was dominating her. But, they had a lasting and competitive rivalry.

Dave.
Sep 15th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Venus and Serena had been kicking Hingis' and Davenport's butts way before they got to #1 and #2.

Hmm, I wouldn't quite put it like that, but regardless of whether they were beating them, they weren't close to them rankings-wise.

Yeah right!

Venus was beating Lindsay left, right, and center before and after her injury problems. Serena was dominant in 2002. Lindsay could have served 120 MPH bombs and Serena would've beaten her routinely.

Venus and Lindsay had a very competitive rivalry during that time. Don't forget it was Lindsay who snapped Venus' winning streak in 2000. Besides, Lindsay had an equally dominant run against Venus in the late-90's. When Lindsay returned from surgery and 7 months off, she was not the same mentally, for which reason she put up little resistance against the WS/Belgium Big 4 in 2002-2003. I'm not denying that the Williams sisters were a league above everyone in 2002, but I feel Lindsay would have been much more of a threat to them had she been allowed to carry her momentum into 2002 (she was on a winning streak of her own when she got injured).

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Venus has a losing record against Davenport, doesn't she? Venus didn't own her. At one point, she was dominating her. But, they had a lasting and competitive rivalry.

14-13. Since 2000, it's 10-5 in favor of Venus. Of those 15 matches;

9 x 2 sets [7 for venus, 2 for davenport]
6 x 3 sets [3 for venus, 3 for davenport]

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 12:41 PM
8 / 4 1997 INDIAN WELLS HARD (O) Q L. DAVENPORT 6-4 5-7 7-6(1) 211 / --
6 / 4 1997 ZURICH CARPET (I) Q L. DAVENPORT 6-0 6-4 26 / --
3 / 2 1998 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) Q L. DAVENPORT 1-6 7-5 6-3 16 / --
2 / 1 1998 OKLAHOMA CITY HARD (I) S V. WILLIAMS 6-7(5) 6-2 6-3 14 / 3
3 / 1 1998 STANFORD HARD (O) F L. DAVENPORT 6-4 5-7 6-4 5 / 3
3 / 2 1998 US OPEN HARD (O) S L. DAVENPORT 6-4 6-4 5 / 5
1 / 1 1998 ZURICH CARPET (I) F L. DAVENPORT 7-5 6-3 5 / 2
1 / 1 1999 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) Q L. DAVENPORT 6-4 6-0 6 / 5
1 / 1 1999 STANFORD HARD (O) F L. DAVENPORT 7-6(1) 6-2 4 / 2
1 / 1 1999 SAN DIEGO HARD (O) S V. WILLIAMS 6-4 7-5 4 / 4
2 / 1 1999 NEW HAVEN HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 6-2 7-5 4 / 2
2 / 2 1999 PHILADELPHIA CARPET (I) S L. DAVENPORT 6-1 6-2 3 / 3
2 / 2 2000 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F V. WILLIAMS 6-3 7-6(3) 5 / 5
2 / 1 2000 STANFORD HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 6-1 6-4 3 / 2
2 / 2 2000 US OPEN HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 6-4 7-5 3 / 3
2 / 1 2000 LINZ CARPET (I) F L. DAVENPORT 6-4 3-6 6-2 3 / 2
3 / 3 2001 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) S V. WILLIAMS 6-2 6-7(1) 6-1 2 / 2
4 / 4 2001 SAN DIEGO HARD (O) S V. WILLIAMS 6-2 7-5 3 / 2
3 / 1 2001 NEW HAVEN HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 7-6(6) 6-4 4 / 3
9 / 3 2002 SAN DIEGO HARD (O) S V. WILLIAMS 6-2 6-1 2 / 1
10 / 2 2002 NEW HAVEN HARD (O) F V. WILLIAMS 7-5 6-0 2 / 1
5 / 5 2003 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) Q V. WILLIAMS 6-2 2-6 6-1 4 / 4
5 / 2 2004 STANFORD HARD (O) F L. DAVENPORT 7-6(4) 5-7 7-6(4) 15 / --
5 / 3 2004 LOS ANGELES HARD (O ) S L. DAVENPORT 7-5 2-0
ret. 13 / 2
4 / 5 2004 US OPEN HARD (O) R16 L. DAVENPORT 7-5 6-4 12 / 11
1 / 1 2005 AMELIA ISLAND CLAY (O) Q L. DAVENPORT 1-6 6-3 6-4 8 / 5
1 / 1 2005 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F V. WILLIAMS 4-6 7-6(4) 9-7 16 / 14

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Venus has a losing record against Davenport, doesn't she? Venus didn't own her. At one point, she was dominating her. But, they had a lasting and competitive rivalry.

10-4. Since 2000, it's 7-3 in favor of Serena. Of those 14 matches;

9 x 2 sets [6 for Serena, 3 for davenport]
5 x 3 sets [4 for venus, 1 for davenport]

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 12:50 PM
S.Williams leads 10-4
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
5 / 3 1997 CHICAGO CARPET (I) S L. DAVENPORT 6-4 6-4 304 / --
3 / 2 1998 SYDNEY HARD (O) Q S. WILLIAMS 1-6 7-5 7-5 96 / --
2 / 2 1999 INDIAN WELLS HARD (O) R32 S. WILLIAMS 6-4 6-2 21 / --
2 / 2 1999 US OPEN HARD (O) S S. WILLIAMS 6-4 1-6 6-4 6 / 7
/ 2 1999 GRAND SLAM CUP HARD (I) S S. WILLIAMS 6-3 6-4 / 3
2 / 2 2000 LOS ANGELES HARD (O) F S. WILLIAMS 4-6 6-4 7-6(1) 7 / 5
2 / 2 2000 US OPEN HARD (O) Q L. DAVENPORT 6-4 6-2 6 / 5
2 / 2 2001 INDIAN WELLS HARD (O) Q S. WILLIAMS 6-1 6-2 10 / 7
3 / 3 2001 US OPEN HARD (O) Q S. WILLIAMS 6-3 6-7(7) 7-5 10 / 10
2 / 2 2001 SANEX CHAMPIONSHIPS HARD (I) F S. WILLIAMS
W/O 10 / 7
10 / 4 2002 US OPEN HARD (O) S S. WILLIAMS 6-3 7-5 1 / 1
5 / 3 2003 CHARLESTON CLAY (O) S S. WILLIAMS 6-1 7-5 1 / 1
5 / 3 2004 LOS ANGELES HARD (O ) F L. DAVENPORT 6-1 6-3 16 / 1
1 / -- 2004 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS HARD (I) R1 L. DAVENPORT 3-6 7-5 6-1 8 / --
1 / 1 2005 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) F S. WILLIAMS 2-6 6-3 6-0 7 / 7

Dave.
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:00 PM
..and what about the stats before 2000? :o You can post as many statistics as you want, fact is that most of the matches between Venus and Lindsay were close, hard fought affairs. To say either won "owned" each other is simply untrue.

As for Serena, I already said, Serena has been the worst matchup for Lindsay. She is the only player to have caused her trouble on a long-term basis throughout her career; the only one you can say has dominated her. Still, most of those matches there were tough ones. Davenport was by no means a walkover for Serena, she made Serena play her best to beat her.

I don't know what more needs to be said in this thread.

RenaSlam.
Sep 16th, 2008, 01:48 PM
This thread is silly.

Justine's success in 03 was due to Serena's injury hiatus.
The only reason Venus didn't get to #1 in 00/01/02 was because she didn't play enough tournaments.


BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Matt01
Sep 16th, 2008, 03:50 PM
10-4. Since 2000, it's 7-3 in favor of Serena. Of those 14 matches;

9 x 2 sets [6 for Serena, 3 for davenport]
5 x 3 sets [4 for venus, 1 for davenport]


14-13. Since 2000, it's 10-5 in favor of Venus. Of those 15 matches;

9 x 2 sets [7 for venus, 2 for davenport]
6 x 3 sets [3 for venus, 3 for davenport]


Get a clue! No one here cares about your selective stats :wavey:

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 03:56 PM
..and what about the stats before 2000? :o You can post as many statistics as you want, fact is that most of the matches between Venus and Lindsay were close, hard fought affairs. To say either won "owned" each other is simply untrue.

As for Serena, I already said, Serena has been the worst matchup for Lindsay. She is the only player to have caused her trouble on a long-term basis throughout her career; the only one you can say has dominated her. Still, most of those matches there were tough ones. Davenport was by no means a walkover for Serena, she made Serena play her best to beat her.

I don't know what more needs to be said in this thread.

Serena owned Davenport. Venus didn't, although the last 8 years, they both did.

Btw, if you can read, you can see the full h2h after each stats section ;-)

Il Primo!
Sep 16th, 2008, 03:58 PM
Ridiculous thread.

Can someone paste and copy Justine's victorious runs in 03USO and 04OZ please?:D

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Ridiculous thread.

Can someone paste and copy Justine's victorious runs in 03USO and 04OZ please?:D

GS, USA, NY, September 7, 2003, $ 6,682,980 , HARD (O)
Draw: 128M/128Q/64D, Rank: 3, Seed/Entry: 2

Rnd Opponent Rank W/L Score
(Q) KAPROS, ANIKO HUN 129 W 7-5 6-3
TALAJA, SILVIJA CRO 70 W 6-1 6-2
OBATA, SAORI JPN 75 W 6-1 6-2
SAFINA, DINARA RUS 71 W 6-0 6-3
MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS 10 W 6-2 6-3
CAPRIATI, JENNIFER USA 7 W 4-6 7-5 7-6(4)
CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL 1 W 7-5 6-1

WTA Championship Pts: 1074 WTA Ranking Pts.: 1074 Prize Money: $910984

GS, AUSTRALIA, February 1, 2004, $ 5,590,310 , HARD (O)
Draw: 128M/128Q/64D, Rank: 1, Seed/Entry: 1

Rnd Opponent Rank W/L Score
(W) LUKASZEWICZ, OLIVIA AUS 870 W 6-0 6-0
(Q) PIN, CAMILLE FRA 168 W 6-1 6-4
(30) KUZNETSOVA, SVETLANA RUS 33 W 6-2 7-5
(Q) SANTANGELO, MARA ITA 129 W 6-1 7-6(5)
(5) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY USA 5 W 7-5 6-3
(32) ZULUAGA, FABIOLA COL 36 W 6-2 6-2
(2) CLIJSTERS, KIM BEL 2 W 6-3 4-6 6-3

WTA Championship Pts: 958 WTA Ranking Pts.: 958 Prize Money: $771879

Dave.
Sep 16th, 2008, 05:01 PM
Serena owned Davenport. Venus didn't, although the last 8 years, they both did.

Btw, if you can read, you can see the full h2h after each stats section ;-)

Serena did own Davenport for a period, correct. As I said, she is the only player one could say "owned" Lindsay Davenport. Again, I don't understand why you posted the Serena-Lindsay H2H.

Venus didn't own her. Have you seen any of those matches since 2000? Which ones gave you the feeling that Lindsay had no chance before it started. Which ones did Lindsay look leagues below her and out of her depth? I'd be interested to know, because I've never felt that way about either of them against each other. Apart from maybe 1 or 2 matches either side, all of their matches have seen the winner work very hard to earn it.

Here are my stats: (matches before 2000)

4 3-setters (3-1 Davenport)
8 2-setters (6-2 Davenport)

I don't understand why you only felt the second half of their H2H was relevant.

DA FOREHAND
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:31 PM
:worship:

Mind you, these would be some of the same folkers bashing Serena for being gracious or not 'giving enough credit' and yet look at the threadstarter's content :lol:

Sorry but the loss to Bartoli was last year pre "meltdown".

sit down somewhere, you spin so much it's making you dizzy!:help::unsure:

youizahoe
Sep 16th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Serena did own Davenport for a period, correct. As I said, she is the only player one could say "owned" Lindsay Davenport. Again, I don't understand why you posted the Serena-Lindsay H2H.

Venus didn't own her. Have you seen any of those matches since 2000? Which ones gave you the feeling that Lindsay had no chance before it started. Which ones did Lindsay look leagues below her and out of her depth? I'd be interested to know, because I've never felt that way about either of them against each other. Apart from maybe 1 or 2 matches either side, all of their matches have seen the winner work very hard to earn it.

Here are my stats: (matches before 2000)

4 3-setters (3-1 Davenport)
8 2-setters (6-2 Davenport)

I don't understand why you only felt the second half of their H2H was relevant.

1999 - 2000 was the period when both Williams's got at their best. Lindsay was too. That's why it's the most relevant.

bandabou
Sep 29th, 2008, 06:09 PM
The stats clearly show it: Serena doesn't have a rival. There are people who troubled her during a spell here or there..but whether it was old guard, same guard or new guard...she beat them all during all times.

Ciarán
Sep 29th, 2008, 09:35 PM
:yeah:

Nemo_Kool
Sep 29th, 2008, 09:41 PM
H.a.t.e.r

serenafan08
Sep 29th, 2008, 10:04 PM
The stats clearly show it: Serena doesn't have a rival. There are people who troubled her during a spell here or there..but whether it was old guard, same guard or new guard...she beat them all during all times.

Serena and Venus are looking like they're each other's biggest rivals. Watching those last two matches, they push each other to heights that the other girls can't push them to. No one on the tour can match their athleticism and power, except them. I'm really interested to see where their head-to-head goes over the next couple of years.

shell
Sep 30th, 2008, 01:31 AM
Serena and Venus are looking like they're each other's biggest rivals. Watching those last two matches, they push each other to heights that the other girls can't push them to. No one on the tour can match their athleticism and power, except them. I'm really interested to see where their head-to-head goes over the next couple of years.

Agree with you, as the tour currently stands. Although I am not sure they always push the best out of each other, their matches are the best of the bunch right now. This may be the rivalry to watch next year too.

Geisha
Sep 30th, 2008, 02:35 AM
Serena did own Davenport for a period, correct. As I said, she is the only player one could say "owned" Lindsay Davenport. Again, I don't understand why you posted the Serena-Lindsay H2H.

Venus didn't own her. Have you seen any of those matches since 2000? Which ones gave you the feeling that Lindsay had no chance before it started. Which ones did Lindsay look leagues below her and out of her depth? I'd be interested to know, because I've never felt that way about either of them against each other. Apart from maybe 1 or 2 matches either side, all of their matches have seen the winner work very hard to earn it.

Here are my stats: (matches before 2000)

4 3-setters (3-1 Davenport)
8 2-setters (6-2 Davenport)

I don't understand why you only felt the second half of their H2H was relevant.

It isn't about "having a chance" before the match, it is about who is the winner at the end. Technically, Jennifer had chances in every match she played with Serena, but that doesn't take from the fact that she lost eight straight or something like that.

From San Diego '99 to Wimbledon '03, Venus won 11 of 13 matches against Lindsay. Some of the scorelines: 7-5 6-0, 6-2 6-1, 6-1 6-4, 6-2 7-5, 6-2 7-5. And, most of the matches were big tournaments too.

bandabou
Sep 30th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Agree with you, as the tour currently stands. Although I am not sure they always push the best out of each other, their matches are the best of the bunch right now. This may be the rivalry to watch next year too.

Lately the seem to start to push other..playing each other more intensely. Their last two meetings was certainly great and intense affairs. Should be good..if they keep this up for next year.

bandabou
Oct 18th, 2008, 10:18 AM
Serena did own Davenport for a period, correct. As I said, she is the only player one could say "owned" Lindsay Davenport.

For a period?! Make that for a career..10-4 is OWNING!

brickhousesupporter
Feb 11th, 2010, 12:34 PM
What about now....Does it all change?

miffedmax
Feb 11th, 2010, 12:38 PM
The only WS rivalry I care about right now is pretty interesting right now...or would be if SOMEBODY would step it up at a goddam slam. :mad:

cehowardrx7
Feb 11th, 2010, 02:59 PM
The only WS rivalry I care about right now is pretty interesting right now...or would be if SOMEBODY would step it up at a goddam slam. :mad:

That takes HEART!! http://www.cehoward.net/badteeth%5b1%5d.gif

miffedmax
Feb 11th, 2010, 03:38 PM
Actually, in her case it's her brain, not her heart that lets her down. Lena's proven she has plenty of heart, even at big matches in slams, but too often she turns off her brains in quarters and semis.

But to address the main point of this thread, no, never the case. Really, in the end, it's about Serena, and no challenger has been able to hang with her for the decade since she took charge. Hingis has walked away twice. Cappy is gone. Davenport and Momo had some good longevity and game, but never quite came through at enough slams. Henin and Clijsters both had to have long breaks. Vee's star has faded a bit. TOB and Sveta have had their moments, but are too inconsistent. Lena's Indian Summer rivalry is nice in that they are the two grande dames in terms of seniority, but until my beloved Big Golden Delicious can win a slam (and beat Serena along the way) it's a rivalry that only matters to their respective fans, not the tennis world at large.

Henin's as close to a rival as Serena has, but increasingly she looks to stand alone, more of a Graf or Brinker than a Navratilova or King, untroubled by an Evert or a Court.

Callystarr
Feb 11th, 2010, 04:59 PM
smh

People are always trying to discredit. Heck I can say that Steffi Graf dominated tennis because she didn't have enough talent around her outside of Monica Seles, and later Martina Hingis...

and we all know how Martina gets her arse whooped now adays. :rolleyes:


Furthermore,

Was there a thread of this magnitude when Venus had her injury in 2003 and has not been the same since? Or when Serena was overweight etc?

The bottom line is Serena is the BEST player hands down of her time, and Venus is arguably #2 with only Justine being perhaps better. Let it go, and deal with the fact that two African American Tennis players, kick some serious arse when they want to...whether Capriati, Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, Sharapova or whoever is in their way. :cool:

miffedmax
Feb 11th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Annoyingly, Venus is really going to relegated to also-ranness compared to her irritating baby sister at this rate, barring a sudden regaining of form.

Yeah, I know it's crazy to relegated like that when you have 7 majors. She, Justine, Monica and Arantxa can form some kind of club

Denise4925
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:01 PM
The only WS rivalry I care about right now is pretty interesting right now...or would be if SOMEBODY would step it up at a goddam slam. :mad:

Aww :hug:

Denise4925
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:03 PM
Actually, in her case it's her brain, not her heart that lets her down. Lena's proven she has plenty of heart, even at big matches in slams, but too often she turns off her brains in quarters and semis.

But to address the main point of this thread, no, never the case. Really, in the end, it's about Serena, and no challenger has been able to hang with her for the decade since she took charge. Hingis has walked away twice. Cappy is gone. Davenport and Momo had some good longevity and game, but never quite came through at enough slams. Henin and Clijsters both had to have long breaks. Vee's star has faded a bit. TOB and Sveta have had their moments, but are too inconsistent. Lena's Indian Summer rivalry is nice in that they are the two grande dames in terms of seniority, but until my beloved Big Golden Delicious can win a slam (and beat Serena along the way) it's a rivalry that only matters to their respective fans, not the tennis world at large.

Henin's as close to a rival as Serena has, but increasingly she looks to stand alone, more of a Graf or Brinker than a Navratilova or King, untroubled by an Evert or a Court.

:worship::worship: This post gave me chills. Thank you for that Max. :hug:

Denise4925
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:04 PM
smh

People are always trying to discredit. Heck I can say that Steffi Graf dominated tennis because she didn't have enough talent around her outside of Monica Seles, and later Martina Hingis...

and we all know how Martina gets her arse whooped now adays. :rolleyes:


Furthermore,

Was there a thread of this magnitude when Venus had her injury in 2003 and has not been the same since? Or when Serena was overweight etc?

The bottom line is Serena is the BEST player hands down of her time, and Venus is arguably #2 with only Justine being perhaps better. Let it go, and deal with the fact that two African American Tennis players, kick some serious arse when they want to...whether Capriati, Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, Sharapova or whoever is in their way. :cool:

True that. :worship:

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Maybe we should party over here? :devil:

Arnian
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:30 PM
This thread is bound to get ugly, all though I could see some of the arguments. Especially with a few of the grand slams.

miffedmax
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:33 PM
:worship::worship: This post gave me chills. Thank you for that Max. :hug:

Well, I'm STILL counting on my girl to throw at least one wrench into the works sooner or later...:p

but you don't have to be a fan to be an admirer sometimes. And truth be told, the Lena/Rena rivalry has made me like them BOTH more.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:39 PM
Actually, in her case it's her brain, not her heart that lets her down. Lena's proven she has plenty of heart, even at big matches in slams, but too often she turns off her brains in quarters and semis.

But to address the main point of this thread, no, never the case. Really, in the end, it's about Serena, and no challenger has been able to hang with her for the decade since she took charge. Hingis has walked away twice. Cappy is gone. Davenport and Momo had some good longevity and game, but never quite came through at enough slams. Henin and Clijsters both had to have long breaks. Vee's star has faded a bit. TOB and Sveta have had their moments, but are too inconsistent. Lena's Indian Summer rivalry is nice in that they are the two grande dames in terms of seniority, but until my beloved Big Golden Delicious can win a slam (and beat Serena along the way) it's a rivalry that only matters to their respective fans, not the tennis world at large.

Henin's as close to a rival as Serena has, but increasingly she looks to stand alone, more of a Graf or Brinker than a Navratilova or King, untroubled by an Evert or a Court.

...meh, :shrug:























j/king

Great friggin' post, man. :yeah:

Arnian
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:43 PM
We will just have to see how the rest of the year pans out to see whether or not there's any truth to this idea. Now that both belgians are back and Maria has no excuses for her failures, we will see.
Kim and Justine have obviously both already made their presence known, but as for the others? Who knows.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:49 PM
We will just have to see how the rest of the year pans out to see whether or not there's any truth to this idea. Now that both belgians are back and Maria has no excuses for her failures, we will see.
Kim and Justine have obviously both already made their presence known, but as for the others? Who knows.
She had none at AO '07. :shrug:

When was the last time Serena actually lost to her?

Denise4925
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:52 PM
She had none at AO '07. :shrug:

When was the last time Serena actually lost to her?

2004. :tape:

Arnian
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:52 PM
She had none at AO '07. :shrug:

When was the last time Serena actually lost to her?

I don't know :lol: Doesn't me she can't lose to her though, all though it is unlikely with how things are going presently.

I'm not going to say Maria can't challenge for majors though, if and when she gets her shit together.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 11th, 2010, 08:00 PM
I don't know :lol: Doesn't me she can't lose to her though, all though it is unlikely with how things are going presently.

I'm not going to say Maria can't challenge for majors though, if and when she gets her shit together.
I'm not saying she CAN'T challenge for majors. I think she can, but I just want to dispel this notion that she had an "excuse" for not being able to stop the resurgence of the Williams.

I like Maria, I consider myself a fan (perhaps a little bit better of a fan of hers than you are Serena's :devil: ), but lets be real. She snuck up on Serena at Wimby in '04 and stole her thunder and - aside from that fiasco YEC - Serena has been out for blood ever since.

Arnian
Feb 11th, 2010, 08:04 PM
I'm not saying she CAN'T challenge for majors. I think she can, but I just want to dispel this notion that she had an "excuse" for not being able to stop the resurgence of the Williams.

I like Maria, I consider myself a fan (perhaps a little bit better of a fan of hers than you are Serena's :devil: ), but lets be real. She snuck up on Serena at Wimby in '04 and stole her thunder and - aside from that fiasco YEC - Serena has been out for blood ever since.

I like Serena a lot more than I like Maria, I took great joy in watching her get beat down in the 2007 AO final.
I've seen them play each other in person before and there is a lot of passion. I mean I think Maria has a few more great runs left in her, but who knows when that will happen.

AcesHigh
Feb 11th, 2010, 08:15 PM
So are we digging up all the threads back to 1997? :lol:

hotandspicey
Feb 11th, 2010, 08:18 PM
That takes HEART!! http://www.cehoward.net/badteeth%5b1%5d.gif

And a damn good serve!!:lol:

hingis-seles
Feb 11th, 2010, 08:35 PM
Annoyingly, Venus is really going to relegated to also-ranness compared to her irritating baby sister at this rate, barring a sudden regaining of form.

Yeah, I know it's crazy to relegated like that when you have 7 majors. She, Justine, Monica and Arantxa can form some kind of club

I wouldn't include Monica in that group. The way she dominated, so quickly and so young, and the duration for which she was able to sustain it before her forced removal, competing against Graf and Navratilova puts her in a different league compared to Venus and Henin, let alone Arantxa.

miffedmax
Feb 11th, 2010, 08:43 PM
But the bottom line is she ended up with "only" 8 slams and, despite being mind-bogglingly, stupendously, talented and, in fact, for a time a worthy, even more than worthy competitor for Graf, her name's not going to come up in any discussion of GOATness (pointless though they may be IMHO). It's horribly unfair in her case, but that's the way of the world.

That's why I include her with the others, not as a direct comparison of their abilities because I think such comparisons are impossible and unjust anyway.

omoruyi
Feb 12th, 2010, 04:40 AM
~ The Big Golden Delicious ~

:lick:
i love it! :dance:

hingis-seles
Feb 12th, 2010, 06:18 AM
But the bottom line is she ended up with "only" 8 slams and, despite being mind-bogglingly, stupendously, talented and, in fact, for a time a worthy, even more than worthy competitor for Graf, her name's not going to come up in any discussion of GOATness (pointless though they may be IMHO). It's horribly unfair in her case, but that's the way of the world.

That's why I include her with the others, not as a direct comparison of their abilities because I think such comparisons are impossible and unjust anyway.

She has 9 Slams, two more than Justine or Venus, which puts her ahead of them for now anyway. And Arantxa is at 4 Slams. I think we're discussing two different things; perhaps I misunderstood your initial post - I assumed you were grouping Monica with Justine, Venus and Arantxa, when she's more accomplished than any of them.

Serena's in a different league altogether. Monica has nowhere near the numbers to be considered in a GOAT discussion, but I would place her in the Top 10 all-time.

Tennisstar86
Feb 12th, 2010, 08:59 AM
She has 9 Slams, two more than Justine or Venus, which puts her ahead of them for now anyway. And Arantxa is at 4 Slams. I think we're discussing two different things; perhaps I misunderstood your initial post - I assumed you were grouping Monica with Justine, Venus and Arantxa, when she's more accomplished than any of them.

Serena's in a different league altogether. Monica has nowhere near the numbers to be considered in a GOAT discussion, but I would place her in the Top 10 all-time.

yeah, I dont understand the logic. Arantxa is not in the same league as Venus and Henin....and Monica is an outlier....Noone will ever be in her "league" she is the outlier of womens tennis...... Sadly, she will always be the great player that got stabbed and people will wonder what could have been......

Vlover
Feb 12th, 2010, 01:36 PM
She has 9 Slams, two more than Justine or Venus, which puts her ahead of them for now anyway. And Arantxa is at 4 Slams. I think we're discussing two different things; perhaps I misunderstood your initial post - I assumed you were grouping Monica with Justine, Venus and Arantxa, when she's more accomplished than any of them.

Serena's in a different league altogether. Monica has nowhere near the numbers to be considered in a GOAT discussion, but I would place her in the Top 10 all-time.
I think Max put Monica in that group because the possibilities exist where Venus and Justine could win two more majors while Monica is already retired therefore her total is now set. I do agree that ASV is out of that group as her results are also set and should be in a group with Hingis and others with 5 majors and under.

Vlover
Feb 12th, 2010, 01:55 PM
yeah, I dont understand the logic. Arantxa is not in the same league as Venus and Henin....and Monica is an outlier....Noone will ever be in her "league" she is the outlier of womens tennis...... Sadly, she will always be the great player that got stabbed and people will wonder what could have been......

It is rather sad that Monica was not given a fair chance to maximize her true potential.:sad: That is one of the reasons why I see all this GOAT stuff as :bs: because how can you judge the competition of each era fairly when you have a fan of one player grossly interfering with the career of your fiercest rival then claim your fave is the greatest ever when the remaining competition is clearly not comparable to other eras.

I really don't want to get into a big discussion now but for the record look at Serena's competition for the decade. Venus, Hingis, Jennifer, Lindsay, Justine, Pova, Kim, Moresmo and the host of other challengers. Anyway at the end of the reign of the Sisters we will see how things stock up.

miffedmax
Feb 12th, 2010, 02:14 PM
I think Max put Monica in that group because the possibilities exist where Venus and Justine could win two more majors while Monica is already retired therefore her total is now set. I do agree that ASV is out of that group as her results are also set and should be in a group with Hingis and others with 5 majors and under.

My point in placing them together again was to say that in a vacuum, ALL of them accomplished something amazing, yet ALL of them will suffer in comparison to a single dominant player of their era.

I'm not trying to say they are all equally accomplished, although all are pretty amaze.

And I'm sorry I cheated Monica out of a slam. My bad. :tape:

hingis-seles
Feb 12th, 2010, 02:20 PM
My point in placing them together again was to say that in a vacuum, ALL of them accomplished something amazing, yet ALL of them will suffer in comparison to a single dominant player of their era.

I'm not trying to say they are all equally accomplished, although all are pretty amaze.

And I'm sorry I cheated Monica out of a slam. My bad. :tape:

No worries about cheating her out of a Slam - she has 9 as it is, no need for us to be so greedy. :p ;) That's the beauty/curse of Seles, though. A direct comparison with Graf will have her coming in second, but she does have some respectable stats in her favour - undefeated against Graf on rebound ace, 3-3 record in GS finals and what have you not.

However, your point is taken.

HRHoliviasmith
Feb 12th, 2010, 02:34 PM
yeah, I dont understand the logic. Arantxa is not in the same league as Venus and Henin....and Monica is an outlier....Noone will ever be in her "league" she is the outlier of womens tennis...... Sadly, she will always be the great player that got stabbed and people will wonder what could have been......

!!!!!!!!!!!!

trufanjay
Feb 12th, 2010, 03:22 PM
People on this forum really make terrible threads :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 12th, 2010, 03:30 PM
So are we digging up all the threads back to 1997? :lol:

you're gonna complain every time someone bumps a thread?

stfu :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 12th, 2010, 03:31 PM
My point in placing them together again was to say that in a vacuum, ALL of them accomplished something amazing, yet ALL of them will suffer in comparison to a single dominant player of their era.

I'm not trying to say they are all equally accomplished, although all are pretty amaze.

And I'm sorry I cheated Monica out of a slam. My bad. :tape:

we know who you gave that slam to :angel: it's forgiven

DA FOREHAND
Feb 12th, 2010, 07:02 PM
WTA sucks this days so much but they were the best at Wimbledon and Us Open. I just don't see better player at Wimbledon then Williams and Serena was too good in NY.

Probably Venus or Serena would win Wimbledon anyway but i don't think Serena would win Us Open with Clijsters, Henin, Sharapova and Mauresmo in top form.

in what year where they all in top form?

Donny
Feb 12th, 2010, 07:09 PM
in what year where they all in top form?

Any time any of the mentioned players are good enough to beat Serena, they're considered 'in top form' regardless of Serena's form.

Notice for example how Sharapova's 'slump' began after the AO 07 final.

Or how only the h2h AFTER Henin beat Serena at the FO semis count.

Or how Miami 08 doesn't count because Henin had 'lost her motivation'.

etc.

Matt01
Feb 12th, 2010, 07:22 PM
Donny: Clever as always :yeah:

Donny
Feb 12th, 2010, 07:23 PM
Donny: Clever as always :yeah:

Matt01: On my jock, as always.

hingis-seles
Feb 12th, 2010, 07:33 PM
If you're willing to step on to the court, you're ready to play. If we waited for everyone to be in top form, we'd never see any tennis.

Olórin
Feb 12th, 2010, 08:15 PM
If we waited for everyone to be in top form, we'd never see any tennis.

I like this, a lot. :lol: :yeah:

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 12th, 2010, 08:20 PM
If you're willing to step on to the court, you're ready to play. If we waited for everyone to be in top form, we'd never see any tennis.

while i don't agree with that, i agree with the rest :lol:

some players play because they have to (especially with this roadmap :o), or some feel a "sense of duty" to make sure the fans at least get to see SOME form of tennis (not always the best idea but hey)

hingisGOAT
Feb 12th, 2010, 08:35 PM
The Williams sisters have definitely been opportunistic. They didn't win a Slam until Graf retired. Their three greatest rivals -- Hingis, Henin, Clijsters -- retired in their early 20s. :tape: These facts speak for themselves. This is without mentioning that their dominance of the WTA doubles tour comes at -- you guessed it! -- the weakest era in doubles history. Now those are some "lucky shots" :lol:

tennisbum79
Feb 12th, 2010, 10:25 PM
The Williams sisters have definitely been opportunistic. They didn't win a Slam until Graf retired. Their three greatest rivals -- Hingis, Henin, Clijsters -- retired in their early 20s. :tape: These facts speak for themselves. This is without mentioning that their dominance of the WTA doubles tour comes at -- you guessed it! -- the weakest era in doubles history. Now those are some "lucky shots" :lol:
Graf was not the best player then, Hingis was.
I believe Serena turned pro in 1998, then won her first USO in 1999, gainst Hingis.
Venus turned pro in 1997, then read the final that year, to lose to Hingis, the best palyer then.

Tennisstar86
Feb 12th, 2010, 10:37 PM
The Williams sisters have definitely been opportunistic. They didn't win a Slam until Graf retired. Their three greatest rivals -- Hingis, Henin, Clijsters -- retired in their early 20s. :tape: These facts speak for themselves. This is without mentioning that their dominance of the WTA doubles tour comes at -- you guessed it! -- the weakest era in doubles history. Now those are some "lucky shots" :lol:

If ever there was a player who took advantage of a lack of competition it was Hingis...

AcesHigh
Feb 12th, 2010, 11:01 PM
If ever there was a player who took advantage of a lack of competition it was Hingis...

Ouch :tape:

miffedmax
Feb 12th, 2010, 11:04 PM
When your opponents are quitting the field of battle...it's not a victory. It's a rout.

Trying to argue that somebody lucked out because you ducked and ran is lame even by tennisforum standards.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 12th, 2010, 11:34 PM
Matt01: On my jock, as always.
:spit:

Olórin
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:00 AM
If ever there was a player who took advantage of a lack of competition it was Hingis...

Ouch :tape:

Bam! :lol:

Olórin
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:01 AM
When your opponents are quitting the field of battle...it's not a victory. It's a rout.


One liner alert :D :cool:

Dave.
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:27 AM
The Williams sisters have definitely been opportunistic. They didn't win a Slam until Graf retired. Their three greatest rivals -- Hingis, Henin, Clijsters -- retired in their early 20s. :tape: These facts speak for themselves. This is without mentioning that their dominance of the WTA doubles tour comes at -- you guessed it! -- the weakest era in doubles history. Now those are some "lucky shots" :lol:

Sooo the team in your avatar are one of the weakest in doubles history? :scratch:

Uranium
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:29 AM
If ever there was a player who took advantage of a lack of competition it was Hingis...

:speakles:. :sobbing:

Dave.
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:31 AM
while i don't agree with that, i agree with the rest :lol:

some players play because they have to (especially with this roadmap :o), or some feel a "sense of duty" to make sure the fans at least get to see SOME form of tennis (not always the best idea but hey)

And other players simply withdraw from tournaments or flat out don't play them even if the roadmap makes it mandatory.

So I think what hingis-seles said is true. If you physically step out on the court, you're ready to play.

Njay16
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:37 AM
And other players simply withdraw from tournaments or flat out don't play them even if the roadmap makes it mandatory.

So I think what hingis-seles said is true. If you physically step out on the court, you're ready to play.

Not always true. Injuries can show up right before the match or in the opening games (Venus USO 2009). Some players are just stubborn, and will not try to go down without a fight. Especially now a days with all the mental lapses. Chances are if the players rough it out long enough, they can find themselves right back in the match.

miffedmax
Feb 13th, 2010, 12:49 AM
It's also a bit absurd the way all of us (myself included) bandy around words like "best" like there really this absolute. The fact is all our favorite players have a pretty broad range of play, and physcial shape, mental exhaustion and injury affect their performance levels. You may be ready to play, you may be able to win, but you can be far from playing well. It's more realistic to talk about playing well, playing average and playing poorly. For example, Serena and Lena can both play well, and Lena can still win because as Top 10 level their respective wells are going to overlap, although Serena is going to win more often than not if they're playing at their highest level because she's #1, and Lena's #7.

So yes, every time you step on the court, you're ready to play. But are you ready to play at 75%, 95% or 45%? A lot of factors kick in, some of them out of your control.