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View Full Version : Does Anyone Feel Henin Will Leave A Seles-esque Legacy Behind?


Vamos.
Sep 7th, 2008, 02:46 AM
Obviously, obviously Seles was a completely unique case and to all those nutters out there who often fail to read properly; I'm not trying to diminish the horrible events that preceded Seles' hiatus on any level. :o

I just think that now Henin's retirement will always be looked at as "What could've been"... and accordingly we will get that same old "Henin could've dominated for another few years and ended up with X amount of Slams." "Henin could've been the best of her generation etc etc".

Does anybody sense this coming? Right now we cannot possibly judge; it will be 10-15 years time at least before we see how Henin is being remember.

I definitely sense that it will be a case of "The Tour was such an awful mess after she left; she would've stayed #1 for years and won many more Slams"...hence the Seles-effect.

RJWCapriati
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:00 AM
The only difference is that Henin was on decline when she retired......having sustainted 4 losses in the year with 2 of those being utter beat downs.

In the case of Seles......she was playing in peak form.......winning 17 of 18 matches that year coming into the maleeva match.

But yes there will always be talk of what could have been for both players.......and no one will ever know.

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:00 AM
no, because she wasn't doing well in 2008 :sad:

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:03 AM
No more talk than 'what could Serena have achieved if she was fit/focused/healthy. TBH I think we will hear more of that around Serena than Henin regardless of her slam count. I don't feel Henin could have given more, I really believe her when she said she was totally finished at that point.

mirzalover
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:07 AM
I dont agree with the decline. I HATE Justine as a player but she quit right before the French which she probably would have won, that probably would have given her more confidence so who knows what could have happened this year for her. Plus She had a bad start to the year not a whole 3 years, 2, or even full year of bad results. I do think she we have sort of a Seles type legacy but not as big as in people will say she could have won a FEW more slams but not A LOT like they do with Seles.

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:08 AM
she lost 6-0 to Safina on clay

Nicolás89
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:10 AM
People will ask "WTH did she retire".

mirzalover
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:12 AM
she lost 6-0 to Safina on clay

and...


Is that the French Open. Look how Safina played the final, Justine probably would have danced up and down Dinara, Ana, Sveta, and Elena's ass at the French this year.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:15 AM
and...


Is that the French Open. Look how Safina played the final, Justine probably would have danced up and down Dinara, Ana, Sveta, and Elena's ass at the French this year.

I seen little in her form that would suggest she would have done that, and clearly nor did she.

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:18 AM
well Idk.. but because at the end of the day it is all about SEREENAAA!! :( I would like to thank Justine for making SERENa play more and get quciker and better :D

mirzalover
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:19 AM
I seen little in her form that would suggest she would have done that, and clearly nor did she.

And how do you know that...you dont


Just like I dont know she would have won the French but I think its stupid to say her career was in a decline as if she would never do anything else again with her playing 1 slam and winning to 2 titles earlier this year. Venus, Serena, Lindsay, and Jennifer all went through longer periods of shitastic results for the type of players they are and came back and won majors *exclude Davenport* but Justine has a bad January to what May and its Oh she never could have won another slam.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:25 AM
And how do you know that...you dont


Just like I dont know she would have won the French but I think its stupid to say her career was in a decline as if she would never do anything else again with her playing 1 slam and winning to 2 titles earlier this year. Venus, Serena, Lindsay, and Jennifer all went through longer periods of shitastic results for the type of players they are and came back won won major *exclude Davenport* but Justine has a bad January to what May and its Oh she never could have won another slam.

The difference being that the one person with great insight into 'knowing' was Henin. And she said she would not have won. I'll side with her assumption. Had she played like in 2007 she might have won a few more but not as many as people often predict with Seles.

mirzalover
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:28 AM
The difference being that the one person with great insight into 'knowing' was Henin. And she said she would not have won. I'll side with her assumption. Had she played like in 2007 she might have won a few more but not as many as people often predict with Seles.

I said that in my first post. So yeah I agree.

AcesHigh
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:31 AM
No, because she lost her fire and quit voluntarily. Not even close to Seles. More like Graf maybe?

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:31 AM
I said that in my first post. So yeah I agree.

I know :p would I disagree with you ;)

tennisbear7
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:34 AM
No.

If Seles had not been stabbed, she would have rivalled Evert/Nav/Graf in their grand slam singles count.

You can't say the same for Henin. Sure, Henin, if she didn't quit, would be looking at around 10 slams. But that's purely speculation of course, until she comes back in 2009.

Slutati
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:35 AM
she lost 6-0 to Safina on clay
No.

Veritas
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:15 AM
No, because she lost her fire and quit voluntarily. Not even close to Seles. More like Graf maybe?

That pretty much sums it up. Monica was forced out of the game when she was at a peak form - two key differences that separate her and Henin's situation.

Tennisstar86
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:21 AM
no, she'll be remembered as a quitter. When the goin got rough she quit. Shes no Seles... the big deal with Seles is that had she not been stabbed she could have arguebly been the goat. Graf wouldnt have ended with the slam count she ended with. Whereas Henin could have won the French a couple more times. But thats it IMO and thats debatable considering the horrible form she was showing in 2008.

Zealisa
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:14 AM
Juju retired because she felt both mentally and physically drained. But so many players go through that at some point and it's very upsetting that she decided to quit when it happened to her. I'm sure that if she just took a break from sport, she would return stronger than ever and would dominate the tour for many years to come. I hope that after 10 years or so we'll see many girls who loved Henin's style of the game and grew up not ballbashers, but something more.

Zealisa
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:16 AM
Juju retired because she felt both mentally and physically drained. But so many players go through that at some point and it's very upsetting that she decided to quit when it happened to her. I'm sure that if she just took a break from sport, she would return stronger than ever and would dominate the tour for many years to come. I hope that after 10 years or so we'll see many girls who loved Henin's style of the game and grew up not ballbashers, but something more.

Geisha
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:27 AM
Henin's retirement was all mental. She was physically still a champion, but she didn't have it in her heart. Monica was stabbed, and she even stated that the psychological injury was more intense than the physical - but, it's on totally different playing fields.

Spartan
Sep 7th, 2008, 08:15 AM
Obviously the circumstances surrounding their retirements are completely different but I would agree that like Seles, Henin could have won more slams (maybe not as many more as Monica but certainly a few). I don't think she would have dominated the tour in the way she did last year but certainly could have been around the top of the game for a few more years.
I don't think her game was permanently in decline, she had a poor (by her standards) start to 08 but it was always going to be difficult to maintain her 07 form. With a bit of a break I think she could have recovered mentally and physically and could have come back strong.

Calypso
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:02 AM
Obviously, obviously Seles was a completely unique case and to all those nutters out there who often fail to read properly; I'm not trying to diminish the horrible events that preceded Seles' hiatus on any level. :o

I just think that now Henin's retirement will always be looked at as "What could've been"... and accordingly we will get that same old "Henin could've dominated for another few years and ended up with X amount of Slams." "Henin could've been the best of her generation etc etc".

Does anybody sense this coming? Right now we cannot possibly judge; it will be 10-15 years time at least before we see how Henin is being remember.

I definitely sense that it will be a case of "The Tour was such an awful mess after she left; she would've stayed #1 for years and won many more Slams"...hence the Seles-effect.

Yes. There will be a lot of discussions about what could have been.

I hope she comes back, she added a special dimension to the game and had exciting matches against most of her leading rivals.

She definitely would have won a few more slams.

Calypso
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:14 AM
Juju retired because she felt both mentally and physically drained. But so many players go through that at some point and it's very upsetting that she decided to quit when it happened to her. I'm sure that if she just took a break from sport, she would return stronger than ever and would dominate the tour for many years to come. I hope that after 10 years or so we'll see many girls who loved Henin's style of the game and grew up not ballbashers, but something more.

She was a ball basher, albeit a stylish one;).

AnomyBC
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Obviously, obviously Seles was a completely unique case and to all those nutters out there who often fail to read properly; I'm not trying to diminish the horrible events that preceded Seles' hiatus on any level. :o

I just think that now Henin's retirement will always be looked at as "What could've been"... and accordingly we will get that same old "Henin could've dominated for another few years and ended up with X amount of Slams." "Henin could've been the best of her generation etc etc".

Does anybody sense this coming? Right now we cannot possibly judge; it will be 10-15 years time at least before we see how Henin is being remember.

I definitely sense that it will be a case of "The Tour was such an awful mess after she left; she would've stayed #1 for years and won many more Slams"...hence the Seles-effect.

Henin's retirement would be more Borg-esque then Seles-esque. A more Seles-esque situation would be what happened to Maureen Connolly---except Connolly was much more seriously injured than Seles.

die_wahrheit
Sep 7th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Don't be stupid, Seles was much more successfull/dominant than Henin.

Matt01
Sep 7th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Don't be stupid, Seles was much more successfull/dominant than Henin.


"Much more"? Not really....

die_wahrheit
Sep 7th, 2008, 11:17 AM
"Much more"? Not really....

She was.
Seles was only 19 when her career stopped and she won every big tournament she entered except for Wimbledon.

Matt01
Sep 7th, 2008, 11:21 AM
She was.
Seles was only 19 when her career stopped and she won every big tournament she entered except for Wimbledon.


Yeah, and Justine won every big tournament except for Wimbledon as well. :rolleyes: Plus she won OG which Seles never did :wavey:

Lucemferre
Sep 7th, 2008, 11:29 AM
PLEASE!!! Do not ever try to compare the coward's OWN decision to Monica's tragic accident.

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Patrick345
Sep 7th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Yeah, and Justine won every big tournament except for Wimbledon as well. :rolleyes: Plus she won OG which Seles never did :wavey:

Please. At age 19 Seles had won 11 of the last 12 major tournaments (if you also count the Masters) she entered, with a single loss in the Wimbledon final. We are talking about a three year span of Federer-like domination in the presence of her own Rafael Nadal. With all due respect, as great a champion Henin is, she is not even close.

Martian Jeza
Sep 7th, 2008, 12:07 PM
ZooZoo only may dream of Seles legacy... You don't have to forget she was a pure wonderkid , what she did at her age against an in form Steffi was magnificient but we know what happened in 1993 : still have the images in my mind, horrible.

Seles also has a way much better personnality than ZooZoo. Seles was a true fighter, ZooZoo is a quitter. I'm sure Seles would never have retired like a little coward like ZooZoo did.

Olórin
Sep 7th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Most ludicrous comparison ever.

When Seles was stabbed she was dominating and had an aura of invincibility. She had just beaten the Wimbledon Champion and world number two Steffi Graf in a pretty convincing display at the Australian.

When Henin retired she was getting bagelled by her biggest rivals and struggling to make it past the QFs of a tournament.

That said, their achievements are pretty comparable, but their legacys are not.

new-york
Sep 7th, 2008, 12:37 PM
nope.

will is a part of the game, if you don't have it, you don't win.

she certainly would have remained a force, that's for sure, but nobody prevented her from achieving more.

she mentally couldn't do it anymore for various reasons so she left.

Seles was stabbed while looking like she was unstoppable.

Kworb
Sep 7th, 2008, 12:48 PM
She was a ball basher, albeit a stylish one;).
The term ball basher is usually reserved for players who can't really do anything well except serving and/or bashing from the baseline; players like Dementieva, Ivanovic, Vaidisova and Sharapova. So I would not call Henin one. :p But yes, she could really bash the ball.

shap_half
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:15 PM
I love how people are so desperate trying to insinuate that Justine quit because she wasn't winning tournaments anymore. It's the other way around. Don't think Justine would ever lose love games if she were committed to winning.

Judge her all you want for deciding to retire, but at the end of the day, I'd rather see my favorite leave the sport at number 1 than leave it riddled with injuries and losing in the first week of a major. If you're that much of an idiot, go ahead and call her a quitter.

Vamos.
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:24 PM
I love how people are so desperate trying to insinuate that Justine quit because she wasn't winning tournaments anymore. It's the other way around. Don't think Justine would ever lose love games if she were committed to winning.

Judge her all you want for deciding to retire, but at the end of the day, I'd rather see my favorite leave the sport at number 1 than leave it riddled with injuries and losing in the first week of a major. If you're that much of an idiot, go ahead and call her a quitter.

That is exactly my point. I think her rather untimely retirement has resulted in something of an enigma. Now people will look back at 2008 and say that the WTA was in pure turmoil; they will cite the 6-person race for #1 etc etc. Then it will look like Justine WAS the WTA. I think it will make her legacy all that much more, to be honest.

Matt01
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:25 PM
Please. At age 19 Seles had won 11 of the last 12 major tournaments (if you also count the Masters) she entered, with a single loss in the Wimbledon final. We are talking about a three year span of Federer-like domination in the presence of her own Rafael Nadal. With all due respect, as great a champion Henin is, she is not even close.


So what? Seles took down the possible GOAT Graf in 90/91, but Henin took down Serena, the best player of her generation, in 03 and again in 07 in 3 consecutive Slams. :wavey:


ZooZoo only may dream of Seles legacy... You don't have to forget she was a pure wonderkid , what she did at her age against an in form Steffi was magnificient but we know what happened in 1993 : still have the images in my mind, horrible.

Seles also has a way much better personnality than ZooZoo. Seles was a true fighter, ZooZoo is a quitter. I'm sure Seles would never have retired like a little coward like ZooZoo did.


LOL...some people are so dumb...blinded by their hatred...

Olórin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:32 PM
That is exactly my point. I think her rather untimely retirement has resulted in something of an enigma. Now people will look back at 2008 and say that the WTA was in pure turmoil; they will cite the 6-person race for #1 etc etc. Then it will look like Justine WAS the WTA. I think it will make her legacy all that much more, to be honest.

I don't think anyone will remember the 6 person reace for number one. I had forgotten about the three person race for number one during the 2006 YECs, until I was thinking about different people becoming number one this USO. I doubt Justine herself was aware that 6 people could have become number one at the start of this tournament, if she's even watching.

People won't look back and say the WTA was in turmoil, because it isn't. Not everyone is as overdramatic as people on here.

At the end of the day, people will remember that Seles was stabbed by a maniac and that Justine retired unexpectedly, as number one, and that she won 7 Grand Slams during her career.

Olórin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:37 PM
So what? Seles took down the possible GOAT Graf in 90/91, but Henin took down Serena, the best player of her generation, in 03 and again in 07 in 3 consecutive Slams. :wavey:


Serena love :hearts:

But Steffi's better :shrug:

shap_half
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:48 PM
I don't think anyone will remember the 6 person reace for number one. I had forgotten about the three person race for number one during the 2006 YECs, until I was thinking about different people becoming number one this USO. I doubt Justine herself was aware that 6 people could have become number one at the start of this tournament, if she's even watching.

People won't look back and say the WTA was in turmoil, because it isn't. Not everyone is as overdramatic as people on here.

At the end of the day, people will remember that Seles was stabbed by a maniac and that Justine retired unexpectedly, as number one, and that she won 7 Grand Slams during her career.

While I don't think women's tennis is in "turmoil," I do think that there's something to be said that so many people are battling for that number 1 position with none of them really playing all that consistently well. MJF even mentioned that if Justine were still around, none of this would even be happpening becuase she was that far ahead of everyone else. You've got to consider the massive void this woman left when in her absence if way too many people were all of a sudden vying for position they wouldn't have had a shot at otherwise. That kind of chaos has to mean something. I mean JJ, whom I love and will cheer on to win the USO, became number without a winning a single title since May. And now, Ana Ivanovic is number 1 despite awful performances since RG.

And to be completely honest, I do think that had Justine shown up at RG, she would have won. No one in that tournament showed anything that would have troubled Justine even in her 2008 form. Not even Safina would defeated her a couple of weeks prior. Because this is RG...not the Berlin Open. When she's at RG, I don't think she's playing for herself, she's playing for the promise she made her mother.

Bijoux0021
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:51 PM
no, she'll be remembered as a quitter. When the goin got rough she quit. Shes no Seles... the big deal with Seles is that had she not been stabbed she could have arguebly been the goat. Graf wouldnt have ended with the slam count she ended with. Whereas Henin could have won the French a couple more times. But thats it IMO and thats debatable considering the horrible form she was showing in 2008.
:worship::worship::worship:

EXACTLY!

Olórin
Sep 7th, 2008, 03:58 PM
While I don't think women's tennis is in "turmoil," I do think that there's something to be said that so many people are battling for that number 1 position with none of them really playing all that consistently well. MJF even mentioned that if Justine were still around, none of this would even be happpening becuase she was that far ahead of everyone else. You've got to consider the massive void this woman left when in her absence if way too many people were all of a sudden vying for position they wouldn't have had a shot at otherwise. That kind of chaos has to mean something. I mean JJ, whom I love and will cheer on to win the USO, became number without a winning a single title since May. And now, Ana Ivanovic is number 1 despite awful performances since RG.

And to be completely honest, I do think that had Justine shown up at RG, she would have won. No one in that tournament showed anything that would have troubled Justine even in her 2008 form. Not even Safina would defeated her a couple of weeks prior. Because this is RG...not the Berlin Open. When she's at RG, I don't think she's playing for herself, she's playing for the promise she made her mother.

I think Justine leaving has left a notable mark, perhaps scar on the tour. Particularly all those thousands of ranking points she took with her. I wish she was still playing, and I think most tennis fans do.

But I think her retirement can be compared to a gale that will eventually blow itself over and leave order to be reinstated (perhaps soon ;) ), rather than a hurricance of destruction that will reverberate down the ages.

I think with Seles there were asteriks by most of the slams in 1993/4. With Justine there is an asterik by the 2008 French Open at most.

Bijoux0021
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:12 PM
ZooZoo only may dream of Seles legacy... You don't have to forget she was a pure wonderkid , what she did at her age against an in form Steffi was magnificient but we know what happened in 1993 : still have the images in my mind, horrible.

Seles also has a way much better personnality than ZooZoo. Seles was a true fighter, ZooZoo is a quitter. I'm sure Seles would never have retired like a little coward like ZooZoo did.
So true! And people need to keep in mind that, after all those years, Seles was still fighting and hoping to make a comeback. She had never quit. She didn't officially retire until recently. That should tell you how much of a fighter she was. It's delusional to be comparing Seles' situation to Justine's who clearly quit when the going got tough. Remember 2006 AO final?

Bijoux0021
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:17 PM
PLEASE!!! Do not ever try to compare the coward's OWN decision to Monica's tragic accident.

NOT EVEN CLOSE!
Thank you!

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:17 PM
I know I shouldn't even write this because I'm going to have people going mad at me and a few crazy bad reps but in MY OPINION Henin at her best > Seles at her best. I think Henin is the better player, legacy, shoulda woulda couldas and achievements aside, I think Henin was a better tennis player than Seles. Then again I know I am with a huge minority in this. I suppose one thing could be said I am quite objective, being a fan of neither...

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:18 PM
FYI Justine Henin was not, and has never been a coward, she is one of the GOAT, and one of the toughest players in the world. She took Serena to the cleaners mentally in 2007, not many do that for one match let alone three. Extenuating circumstances and injuries aside.

Olórin
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:22 PM
I know I shouldn't even write this because I'm going to have people going mad at me and a few crazy bad reps but in MY OPINION Henin at her best > Seles at her best. I think Henin is the better player, legacy, shoulda woulda couldas and achievements aside, I think Henin was a better tennis player than Seles. Then again I know I am with a huge minority in this. I suppose one thing could be said I am quite objective, being a fan of neither...

I think quite a few people on this board would say that Henin at her best is better than Seles at her best. But then again most people on this board are under 20 and have probably never seen Seles playing at her best. :shrug:

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:26 PM
I think quite a few people on this board would say that Henin at her best is better than Seles at her best. But then again most people on this board are under 20 and have probably never seen Seles playing at her best. :shrug:

Yeah, but you never can doubt the bounds of hatred...;)

Bijoux0021
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:35 PM
FYI Justine Henin was not, and has never been a coward, she is one of the GOAT, and one of the toughest players in the world. She took Serena to the cleaners mentally in 2007, not many do that for one match let alone three. Extenuating circumstances and injuries aside.
The fact that Justine Hinin couldn't withstand to take her beatings in 2008, as Serena Williams did in 2007, clearly made her a COWARD!

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:38 PM
The fact that Justine Hinin couldn't withstand to take her beatings in 2008, as Serena Williams did in 2007, clearly made her a COWARD!

Henin handled her loses with a great deal more class than Serena did from what I seen. Her leaving had nothing to do with those loses she was burnt out. :rolleyes:. Stop making categorical statements as if what you are saying is fact :lol:

Bijoux0021
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Henin handled her loses with a great deal more class than Serena did from what I seen. Her leaving had nothing to do with those loses she was burnt out. :rolleyes:. Stop making categorical statements as if what you are saying is fact :lol:
Quiting when the going got tough was not handled with class. The name "Justine Henin" and the word, "class" shouldn't even be in the same sentence, especially for someone such as her who has a history of cheating, lying and gamesmanship. Phuleeeeeeze!

VishaalMaria
Sep 7th, 2008, 04:54 PM
Let's get one thing straight, Justine retired because of her lack of will and desire which in turn caused the horrible results. She did not retire because of the losses themselves. That's a big difference which many people fail to see.

And as for her comparison to Seles, well Seles was forced out of the game. Henin wasn't.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Quiting when the going got tough was not handled with class. The name "Justine Henin" and the word, "class" shouldn't even be in the same sentence, especially for someone such as her who has a history of cheating, lying and gamesmanship. Phuleeeeeeze!

Your arguments are too subjective I'll just agree to disagree :p

rolandg
Sep 7th, 2008, 05:33 PM
No, I don't think so. She will have a legacy similar to Borg I think but not Seles, because the circumstances are too different.

I think that a lot of other players on the tour will have an asterix next to their names though, in the way a lot of Seles' contempories do. For example, it will probably always be mentioned when talking about Ivanovic that she won her French Open in a Henin-less field.

danieln1
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:09 PM
No because Seles was stopped during her prime, while the belgian retired because she was eating a lot of bagels from diferent players, so it´s nonsense to compare this players, since Seles was the better one by far

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:09 PM
Henin handled her loses with a great deal more class than Serena did from what I seen. Her leaving had nothing to do with those loses she was burnt out. :rolleyes:. Stop making categorical statements as if what you are saying is fact :lol:

That's because the reporter's practically defend Henin and make excuses for her.. right there during the interview! No one defends Serena- she has to defend herself. :shrug:

danieln1
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Quiting when the going got tough was not handled with class. The name "Justine Henin" and the word, "class" shouldn't even be in the same sentence, especially for someone such as her who has a history of cheating, lying and gamesmanship. Phuleeeeeeze!

perfect post!

Serenita
Sep 7th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Henin was washed up/ physicaly and mentally. she needed to retire.

shap_half
Sep 7th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Justine had many tought losses. Why did she quit now? I mean the know-it-alls can start trying to enlighten me now. And also, can you tell me if God really does exist? What's the cure for cancer?

AcesHigh
Sep 7th, 2008, 08:57 PM
So many :weirdo: responses in this thread.

kiwifan
Sep 7th, 2008, 08:59 PM
No.

Sharapova - bagel
Serena - bagel
Safina - the final ass kicking.

Nothing suggests that Henin was going anywhere but downhill in 2008. :shrug:

No comparison with Seles. Seles, "what if's" are tragic.

Henin herself said she didn't want to do the work necessary to be at the top of her game anymore...

...nothing tragic about that. Just a decision a player made for herself and as long as she's happy her fans should let it go already. :tape:

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:07 PM
That's because the reporter's practically defend Henin and make excuses for her.. right there during the interview! No one defends Serena- she has to defend herself. :shrug:

Nonsense. Damn those pesky racist reporters forcing the melodramitc hissy fit 'She Hit Lucky Shots' out of Serena Wiliiams' mouth...:rolleyes:

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:12 PM
I never said racist. You added that yourself.

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Abd if you want to see classlessness personified just look at the French Open 2003 and the interview that took place afterwards. Please, spare me.

Thanx4nothin
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:21 PM
I never said racist. You added that yourself.

You are correct I did. Just like you added your own specific moral measuring stick, creating your own distorted image of class or lack there of....point? The fact that this interview is classy or otherwise does nothing to answer the fact that Serena made many remarks which were quite bad after her matches with Henin in 2007, does it? :confused:

Kart
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:23 PM
"Much more"? Not really....
Seles won seven out of eight slams she contested from the start of 1991 to the time she was stabbed in 1993. Not to mention three successive YEC titles.

Henin never demonstrated she was capable of that level of domination anywhere other than Paris.

That's not even considering the fact that Seles was still ranked in the top ten over ten years after she started on the tour.

This is no blow to Justine who proved last year she was the best player around but really, she's gone now and she was not good enough for long enough IMHO.

The only player on tour at the moment I see leaving a Seles-esque legacy (and possibly an even greater one) is Serena Williams.

Miss Amor
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Nope, even tatiana has more chance than henin of being remembered, here is why-->
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=tatiana+golovin&word2=henin+justin

supergrunt
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Hmmm. Could it be that perhaps Serena was very upset? She is human. Furthermore, what do Serena's comments have to with Henin's lgacy. Why did you bring it up in the first place.

I want to end this Henin stuff hoenstly. She is retired and right now probaly on a tranquil beach sipping on lemonade. I highly doubt she is worried about her legacy what Serena said in a press conference, or what could have been. So why do we have to continue to pontificate on her career? It is over. I hope she is happy in whatver she is doing. 'What ifs?' are just that: 'What ifs'. There is no validity to them so what is the purpose of even bringing them up? It is just going to end up in a heated arguement that is never going to end.

Matt01
Sep 7th, 2008, 09:47 PM
Seles won seven out of eight slams she contested from the start of 1991 to the time she was stabbed in 1993. Not to mention three successive YEC titles.

Henin never demonstrated she was capable of that level of domination anywhere other than Paris.


Justine dominated Women's tennis on two different occasions (03/04 and again 07) for about one year. Seles dominated longer, but only on one occasion. Justine won 7 Slams, Seles 9, both lacking Wimbledon. Seles won a few more tournaments and had 30 or so weeks longer as #1.

Conclusion: Seles is greater than Justine but, in my book not "by much".

Kart
Sep 7th, 2008, 10:00 PM
Justine dominated Women's tennis on two different occasions (03/04 and again 07) for about one year. Seles dominated longer, but only on one occasion. Justine won 7 Slams, Seles 9, both lacking Wimbledon. Seles won a few more tournaments and had 30 or so weeks longer as #1.

Conclusion: Seles is greater than Justine but, in my book not "by much".
We'll have to agree to disagree as I'd say the gap is significant.

However, I will concede that Justine was spectacular last year.

Slutati
Sep 7th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Nope, even tatiana has more chance than henin of being remembered, here is why-->
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=tatiana+golovin&word2=henin+justin
Henin Justin? :lol:

Tatiana :hearts:

Matt01
Sep 7th, 2008, 10:04 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree


OK ;) :)

Optima
Sep 7th, 2008, 10:13 PM
I've never said this before for fear of being all googled at, but I always thought it was weird Seles left like that after she was stabbed. If that happened to me I would be outraged and would have went batshit crazy trying to win everything. That's what I say now, but if it actually happened to me, maybe it would have been different. But I always found that kind of strange. I mean, from what I've heard, it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

You can't even compare Monica to Justine. They're completely different players with completely different stories, personalities, circumstances and players surrounding them.

rolandg
Sep 7th, 2008, 10:36 PM
I've never said this before for fear of being all googled at, but I always thought it was weird Seles left like that after she was stabbed. If that happened to me I would be outraged and would have went batshit crazy trying to win everything. That's what I say now, but if it actually happened to me, maybe it would have been different. But I always found that kind of strange. I mean, from what I've heard, it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

You can't even compare Monica to Justine. They're completely different players with completely different stories, personalities, circumstances and players surrounding them.

Fair point, but she was a teenage girl, and I think she was just scared.

hingis-seles
Mar 18th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Well, did she leave a Seles-esque legacy behind? I don't think so.

bobito
Mar 18th, 2012, 03:14 PM
No, because she lost her fire and quit voluntarily. Not even close to Seles. More like Graf maybe?

This. I'm a huge fan of Justine but she had lost her passion for the game and without that she was only half the player she had been. In all honesty this was apparent from the very start of the year. Even when she won Sydney she was clearly not at her best.

justineheninfan
Mar 18th, 2012, 04:29 PM
They are nothing alike really. Both great champions but their stories and even playing styles are nothing similar, nor their personalities. Seles is a tragic figure who should have been a top 3 or 4 player all time but was stabbed. She was the first to introduce power baseline tennis off both sides. Henin was basically an upgraded version of Hingis's game, and showed what a smaller player can do even in this era of big babe tennis with enough heart, work ethic and determination.

RenaSlam.
Mar 18th, 2012, 04:45 PM
Hellz naw. She isn't a GOAT like Seles is.

Galang
Mar 18th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Definately not.

Seles will be remembered as an underachiever due to her stabbing, whereas Henin is the second biggest over-achiever in tour history, after Kim Clijsters. She was absolutely nothing special and her second "career" proved that.

StoneRose
Mar 18th, 2012, 05:11 PM
No i'm certainly not a Henin hater, much respect for her tennis actually. But she had to work extremely hard as she admitted herself to play so well. Once she couldn't set herself to do that anymore she started losing and eventually called it a day. Once she returned she played good tennis but others were better and it soon became apparent that she wasn't able to get fit enough physically anymore as well. She did well but couldn't have achieved more i feel unlike Seles.

jameshazza
Mar 18th, 2012, 05:21 PM
I think yes because I'm not a major fan of hers but I did respect her, and for me she was the most talented player. However she was burnt out, wasn't doing well due to that ridiculous service change and she wasn't actually anywhere near as good when she came back. However, she could easily have picked up a few more slams in the current state of the WTA.

Lilowannabe
Mar 18th, 2012, 05:31 PM
I dont think so. I was never a fan of her, but she gained so much respect from me in 2007!! She was a supreme talent, but she had to work soo hard to remain at the top. She was always one of the hardest workers ever, i only wish serena had her work ethic. So i believed her in 08 when she sed she had no more to give etc. Sure she had the ability to win slams, but im not sure she'll be the 'what if...' seles story. I think Serena will be more of a case of 'could she have won more if she played more, injuries etc' but she choose her path so i dont see the point in debating that...

thrust
Mar 18th, 2012, 05:47 PM
No.

If Seles had not been stabbed, she would have rivalled Evert/Nav/Graf in their grand slam singles count.

You can't say the same for Henin. Sure, Henin, if she didn't quit, would be looking at around 10 slams. But that's purely speculation of course, until she comes back in 2009.

I AGREE. Justine was physically spent when she retired in 08, whereas, Seles was probably at her physical and tennis peak when she was attacked. Had not Seles been attacked, I would compare she and Graf with Federer and Nadal. Seles would have had good results against Graf and others, winning more slams. Steffi though, with her game style, would probably have lasted longer on top than Monica. Unfortunately, we will never know.

thrust
Mar 18th, 2012, 05:54 PM
Definately not.

Seles will be remembered as an underachiever due to her stabbing, whereas Henin is the second biggest over-achiever in tour history, after Kim Clijsters. She was absolutely nothing special and her second "career" proved that.

SENSELESS AND INACCURATE POST IN EVERY WAY!

danieln1
Mar 18th, 2012, 06:34 PM
SENSELESS AND INACCURATE POST IN EVERY WAY!

The Clijsters part is right though, and she is the biggest overachiver of all time. I don´t think Henin overachived, I think 7 slams for her is a great number, she was a very talented player despite some shady actions.

Doully
Mar 18th, 2012, 06:47 PM
Definately not.

Seles will be remembered as an underachiever due to her stabbing, whereas Henin is the second biggest over-achiever in tour history, after Kim Clijsters. She was absolutely nothing special and her second "career" proved that.

Total nonsense :o.
Not winning Wimbledon alone is considered a total under-achievement for Henin, never mind the fact that people had her pegged to match Evert's RG record after 07.

Henin has left her own legacy behind. Just look at the train-wreck of the WTA rankings since 08 as a result of her absence.

naranka
Mar 18th, 2012, 06:47 PM
I know I shouldn't even write this because I'm going to have people going mad at me and a few crazy bad reps but in MY OPINION Henin at her best > Seles at her best. I think Henin is the better player, legacy, shoulda woulda couldas and achievements aside, I think Henin was a better tennis player than Seles. Then again I know I am with a huge minority in this. I suppose one thing could be said I am quite objective, being a fan of neither...

Then following that logic, you're saying that Henin at her best > Graf at her best, since Seles, at her peak, was at least Graf's equal.

Kworb
Mar 18th, 2012, 06:50 PM
Justine definitely underachieved, it's crazy she has the same number of Slams as Venus. But she can't be compared with Seles whose opportunity to become an all-time great was violently taken from her. Henin chose to walk away and skip the Slams she surely would've won, and then when she came back she injured herself, an injury which cost her that Slam and many more. But injury is a common "what if" story, while what Seles endured was unique.

Vincey!
Mar 18th, 2012, 06:55 PM
Humm I think she'll be remembered for her great clay court game, but I feel that everybody will forget how consistent and good she was on hard as well. I don't think she'll ever be remembered like Seles cuz Seles had a shocking story, a player never will truly be remembered like Seles every again I think. Of course Seles was more than a stabbing and she was still an awesome player when she got back but if you think of Seles you'll think of the stabbing. Personally I don't like Henin at all but she was a great player and she'll be remembered for her clay domination and probably sadly for her the hiccups she had in her career, retiring early twice, retiring from a GS final her odd relationship with her coach etc...people will forget and they'll probably be surprised to see that she had won many GS on HC as well. Of course I'm talking about what people will most likely remember of her in 10-15 years.

Nicolás89
Mar 18th, 2012, 08:07 PM
Hahahaha Seles the most unlucky & underachieved player to have played in the open era compared to a 1 court specialist?

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2012, 08:09 PM
She was never as good as Seles, nor did she leave such an indelible mark in the history of the sport.

Helen Lawson
Mar 18th, 2012, 08:51 PM
I don't think so at all. I think Henin will be remembered as maximizing what she had and achieving the best she could whereas Monica was a far greater player who could have accomplished far more than she did.

Matt01
Mar 18th, 2012, 08:55 PM
Hahahaha Seles the most unlucky & underachieved player to have played in the open era compared to a 1 court specialist?


A 1 court specialist who dominated woman's tennis on HC in 2004 and 2007. Get out of this thread now :wavey:

hingisGOAT
Mar 18th, 2012, 09:02 PM
Henin is definitely an over-achiever. Her game always looked like she was pressing, going for bigger shots than she should. That cost her a lot of matches early in her career IMO, but when she suddenly bulked up in 2003, her body caught up to her playing style. That she was able to sustain such aggression for 4 years is remarkable. Certainly her decline in 2008 was one of the most dramatic falls from form that I've ever seen, but in hindsight not a shock; we can't expect her to keep her overly-aggressive game, with her tiny body, perfectly tuned for her whole career.

She was, however, a thorn in Serena's side when she was in-form, so IF she didn't retire and IF she regained form, she might have added a Slam or two and Serena might have a Slam or two less. I guess we'll never know.

Certainly, however, players like Hingis, Clijsters, Seles are way bigger underachievers than Justine, and have a lot more "what if" questions surrounding their circumstances.

thrust
Mar 18th, 2012, 11:25 PM
Justine definitely underachieved, it's crazy she has the same number of Slams as Venus. But she can't be compared with Seles whose opportunity to become an all-time great was violently taken from her. Henin chose to walk away and skip the Slams she surely would've won, and then when she came back she injured herself, an injury which cost her that Slam and many more. But injury is a common "what if" story, while what Seles endured was unique.

The fact that Henin at 5-6 has the same # of slams as Venus at 6-1 makes Justine an overachiever. Justine was the biggest overachiever of her time, considering her size, compared to other top players of her time. Some also forget that most of Justine's wins were on hard courts, including 3 of her 7 slam wins.

The Dawntreader
Mar 18th, 2012, 11:33 PM
A 1 court specialist who dominated woman's tennis on HC in 2004 and 2007. Get out of this thread now :wavey:

In the first half of the year. Not the second.

Critique
Mar 18th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Justine Henin brought a style of play to the game that is a huge rarity these days. It was refreshing to watch. When you consider her success came with a 5'5 frame in the 2000s power game it is incredible really.

Apoleb
Mar 18th, 2012, 11:39 PM
Justine Henin brought a style of play to the game that is a huge rarity these days. It was refreshing to watch. When you consider her success came with a 5'5 frame in the 2000s power game it is incredible really.

Yep, and that's her legacy. It's Henin-esque, and it's very special. This thread is very stupid to start with, and the one who bumped it is probably dumber.

Matt01
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:07 AM
In the first half of the year. Not the second.


We all know why that was (she got ill). :p And she still won the Olympics on HC in the 2nd half of the year.

Miss Amor
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:11 AM
Not even close. One is a lame quitter, the other is the ultimate fighter.

cecilija
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:12 AM
Henin is unique, her style will never be emulated, or at least noone who tries to emulate her will have her success.

The shots she was able to produce, the points she was able to muster, the way she moved were all truly one of a kind.

goat
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Definately not.

Seles will be remembered as an underachiever due to her stabbing, whereas Henin is the second biggest over-achiever in tour history, after Kim Clijsters. She was absolutely nothing special.

LOL, u mad?

Matt01
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Not even close. One is a quitter, the other is the ultimate fighter.


Don't be so harsh with Seles. :sad: Her foot injury looked serious.

The Dawntreader
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:19 AM
We all know why that was (she got ill). :p And she still won the Olympics on HC in the 2nd half of the year.

So? The fact remains.

goat
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:21 AM
Do people really think Henin was shit? I think she is ugly as fuck but her game was beautiful.

Matt01
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:22 AM
So? The fact remains.


The fact remains that she was not a 1 court specialist.

The Dawntreader
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:25 AM
The fact remains that she was not a 1 court specialist.

I never said she wasn't:kiss:

Matt01
Mar 19th, 2012, 12:28 AM
I never said she wasn't:kiss:


And I never said she dominated the whole year :kiss: