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court70
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Serena won't play Indian Wells; WTA's new rule won't change it



Serena and Venus Williams' ongoing boycott of the Pacific Life Open at Indian Wells, Calif., could jeopardize their participation at other tournaments under recently adopted rules for mandatory events set to kick in next year. But provisions in the rules should allow the sisters to avoid suspensions.
Approved by the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour board at Wimbledon, the new rules stipulate that players who withdraw from one of the tour's five "premier" events (Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid, Beijing and the Tour Championships) face fines as well as a two-tournament ban at the next two premier events unless they perform promotional activities for the missed event. That obligation can be met during the tournament or within a year.

Current penalties include fines, but no suspension.

"It would have to be activities mutually agreed upon between the tournament and the tour," WTA CEO Larry Scott said earlier this month, and must fall within a 125-mile radius of the event. That leaves plenty of flexibility.

The Williams sisters have steadfastly declined to participate at the Pacific Life Open since 2001. That year, Venus defaulted to Serena minutes before their semifinal started. Spectators subsequently jeered Serena in the final. The sisters and their father, Richard, have said they believe the crowd's actions were racially motivated.


"Hopefully they'll play, but if they don't they will have to do what any other player would have to do," Scott said of the two multiple major winners.

Monday at the Bank of the West Classic in Palo Alto, Calif., top-seeded Serena reiterated her unwillingness to play in the California desert near Palm Springs.

"I'm not going to Indian Wells," said the fifth-ranked American, who lost the Wimbledon final to older sister Venus. "That's just the bottom line."

"I honestly don't think they would want me to go," she added when asked about fulfilling promotional obligations to avoid a suspension. "I wouldn't have anything positive to say. It would be kind of shooting themselves in the foot. I would be more than happy to go and tell them how I really feel."

Serena's agent, Jill Smoller, said the eight-time Grand Slam champ would meet her obligations so that she could compete at the Sony Ericsson Open in Florida, which is the week after Indian Wells. Serena has won the Key Biscayne event five times.

"Some things you have to stand up for," Serena said. "There's been a lot of people in the past that are my race that have stood up for a lot more than not playing Indian Wells. That's the least I can do."

Elwin.
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Good decision :yeah:

mirzalover
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Good, if I honestly thought I was treated wrong for my race I wouldnt go either. Anyone who says they need to get over it are probably white or a minority themselves with no backbone.

The Daviator
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Good for Serena sticking to her guns, even in the face of a fine/suspension, she's a very principled person :yeah:

Dave.
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:04 PM
I don't get why so much attention is given to this. Serena and Venus have made it clear they aren't playing. The event goes on fine and the Williams sisters (rightfully) stick by their decision. End of.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:08 PM
I don't get why so much attention is given to this. Serena and Venus have made it clear they aren't playing. The event goes on fine and the Williams sisters (rightfully) stick by their decision. End of.

Because they are going to get fined for this :shrug: . Which is obviously unfair. Otherwise, I agree with you.

ASP0315
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:14 PM
Larry scott sucks.

Good for serena for sticking with her decision.

She won't get fined or suspended i'm sure. WTA already lost henin and they certainly don't wan't to lose the william sisters. ;)

kinseh
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:14 PM
Good that Serena is sticking with her decisions. :yeah:

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:19 PM
what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

Bijoux0021
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Stop this sick obsession already! :devil: They are NEVER going back to Indian Wells.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:21 PM
what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

Richard claimed that he was called racial slurs and that one person threatend to skin him alive.

Dave.
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:27 PM
Because they are going to get fined for this :shrug: . Which is obviously unfair. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Oh right, good point. I don't agree with this fining thing at all.

what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

Whether it's to do with race or not, if a player feels uncomfortable in a tournament due to whatever reason, they have the right not to go back there again. It's pretty simple. And they shouldn't be fined for it either.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Richard claimed that he was called racial slurs and that one person threatend to skin him alive.

i didn't know that, but then i never truely trust anything richard says. i dont realy mind either way if serena plays IW or not she hasn't for 7 years and its made no difference, though this wont be the only case like this with IW and miami there will be others not playing 1 making up stupid injuries or getting fined!

ASP0315
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:28 PM
what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

i partially agree with what you said.
race got nothing to with it true. ;)

Chance
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:29 PM
What Serena went through in 2001 was horrendous- I wouldn't wish that on my enemy !
Hmm but how is Serena and Venus going to perform promotional activities for IW??When clearly they hate the event...

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Oh right, good point. I don't agree with this fining thing at all.



Whether it's to do with race or not, if a player feels uncomfortable in a tournament due to whatever reason, they have the right not to go back there again. It's pretty simple. And they shouldn't be fined for it either.

in my next post i did say i dont realy care either way if serena play IW or not, its up to her! she hasn't for 7 years and its not bothered me so i doubt it will next year. im not saying she should play i just didn't like the reasoning!

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:31 PM
i didn't know that, but then i never truely trust anything richard says. i dont realy mind either way if serena plays IW or not she hasn't for 7 years and its made no difference, though this wont be the only case like this with IW and miami there will be others not playing 1 making up stupid injuries or getting fined!

I would give him the benfit of the doubt :shrug: .I can not imagine what reason he would have to make such claims other than if they were true. In addition, Serena expressed that she felt that there was predjudice at the event and both the Williams Sisters are the last to use the race card.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:33 PM
I would give him the benfit of the doubt :shrug: .I can not imagine what reason he would ahve to make such claims. In addition, Serena expressed that she felt that there was predjudice at the event and both the Williams Sisters are the last to use the race card.

im sorry but this is not true, richard has been shouting his mouth of claiming the race card already this year.

Dawson.
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:44 PM
good for her, staying true to what she believes.

IMO, the incident in 2001 didnt have anything to do with race, but that still doesnt justify the crowd jeering her in such a way. its not the first time someone has pulled out before a match. the only reason it was an issue was because they are sisters :shrug:.

look at davenport! how many matches has she pulled out of in her career (this week also) - yet she doesnt get booed off the court

if she is not able to play miami after this, than thats the tournaments loss, not serena's

The Dawntreader
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:45 PM
I'm sorry but even if there was a flicker of racism at IW, it's still completely unacceptable.

Bravo Serena for promoting moral courage:D:worship:

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:47 PM
im sorry but this is not true, richard has been shouting his mouth of claiming the race card already this year.

I said "Venus and Serena NEVER use the race card" and that Serena expressed that she felt that there was racism at Indian Wells.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:54 PM
I said "Venus and Serena NEVER use the race card" and that Serena expressed that she felt that there was racism at Indian Wells.

jajajja, yeah, right, they never used it, WHATEVER. I really think it is ridiculous to say that she was booed because of her skin colour. It has always been the same, always with their victimism that people do not like them because they are black. They should realise that upon that time people did not like them for the way they were/behaved. I have to say that now they are much more mature and they have changed and they are not so vain but they have definitively used the race card (nothing compared to their father to be honest). Anyway, the key point is the WTA has some rules of attendance to important tournaments and I really see there should be no exception for anyone either you are a williams sister or a top 100 ranked.

thrust
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:55 PM
Richard claimed that he was called racial slurs and that one person threatend to skin him alive.

Richard does have a tendency to exaggerate. I think the Sisters need to get over it. This happened years ago, and they were part of the problem. I am sure they would be well received if they were to compete now. If they refuse to compete, they should suffer whatever punishment the tour calls for. They are not above the Tour whatever they, or their fans, think.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:58 PM
jajajja, yeah, right, they never used it, WHATEVER. I really think it is ridiculous to say that she was booed because of her skin colour. It has always been the same, always with their victimism that people do not like them because they are black. They should realise that upon that time people did not like them for the way they were/behaved. I have to say that now they are much more mature and they have changed and they are not so vain but they have definitively used the race card (nothing compared to their father to be honest). Anyway, the key point is the WTA has some rules of attendance to important tournaments and I really see there should be no exception for anyone either you are a williams sister or a top 100 ranked.

Show me an interview or a quote where they have said that they were victimized because they were black. Please. Show me it. I mean, whenever they are asked questions about race the seem to try and dodge it if anything (especially Venus) . You are confusign the Williams Sisters with their father.

Anyways, I think their decision should be respected regardless of whether or not one thinks that their choice is correct.

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:03 PM
Because they are going to get fined for this :shrug: . Which is obviously unfair.Actually, it's not. The tour has to make rules for everybody. The also have to see to both the long and short-term health of the tour. Larry Scott knew going in this would be aproblem, and according him, and Venus and Serena, they've been talking about how to hanlde it for over a year. Further, any fine has to be one that most players could afford, and Venus and Serena are two of the wealthiest players on the tour. They'll be able to hanlde a $250,000 fine. It would hurt Marion Bartoli a lot more.

I also think that 'promotional activities' is deliberately left vague. Obviously, they don't want Serena telling sponsors how she really feels. But if Serena did extra promotional work for Miami and Beijing, allowing the WTA to free up extra resources to spend on Indian Wells, that would meet the letter of the rule.

Sorana_Cirstea
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:05 PM
I think that the whole idea of racial discrimination is stupid. And I think that any playing or their parents trying to bring it up are stupid. I don't particularly care for the sisters, although they are skilled, they both tend to be arrogant; especially Serena. I do love both of their games, but I do not like the way they, nor their father carry his or herself. It is stupid, and rather annoying. You can't just watch a simple match with one of the sisters in it, because in the states and elsewhere, the interviewers/commentators are too busy blowing up their(Venus && Serena) heads. I like their mother better, because she chooses to stay quiet, and enjoy he match. It's time Richard does too.

And Serena, honey... Grow up. It's really immature to get all pissy when you lose. You may not like losing, but it is a part of the game. Get the F used to it.

V-MAC
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:11 PM
Glad to hear this.
Anyway, if Vee and Rena did decide to go play Indian Wells, who is to say that the crowd wouldn't act up again? In fact, I bet they would in a sort of "haha, ye were forced to play here" taunt :rolleyes:

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:13 PM
I KNEW it was not going to take long before this thread turned into a Williams-bashing affair :haha: .

SAEKeithSerena
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:14 PM
good for her.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:18 PM
I KNEW it was not going to take long before this thread turned into a Williams-bashing affair :haha: .

It's good to see how their fans act just like them. To the very first accusation their show their victimism.

Vamos.
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Good, if I honestly thought I was treated wrong for my race I wouldnt go either. Anyone who says they need to get over it are probably white or a minority themselves with no backbone.

wow. amazing working out. your logic surpasses even the greatest thinkers. :worship:

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:19 PM
i didn't know that, but then i never truely trust anything richard says. i dont realy mind either way if serena plays IW or not she hasn't for 7 years and its made no difference, though this wont be the only case like this with IW and miami there will be others not playing 1 making up stupid injuries or getting fined!Yet....you have no problem going on and on about it. You have absolutely no idea of what transpired, and admit it.....you don't know if it has anything to do with race or not.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:21 PM
I KNEW it was not going to take long before this thread turned into a Williams-bashing affair :haha: .

comments like this are why serena fans put me off her, she is openly saying she is going to break the rules, whatever her reasons she will still be breaking the rules, if posters on this board are not happy with that or her reasons for breaking them they have every right to post their opinion on it.

you spout shit like this because people are speaking up and not bowing down to the fact that she is serena williams, 8 grand slams or not theres rules and you can take a defensive attitude towards people disagreeing with her decision but it only shows you cant have a proper debate or discusion with differing views!

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:21 PM
It's good to see how their fans act just like them. To the very first accusation their show their victimism.From your posts, I seriously doubt you have the ability to ever make this Williams fan feel victimized.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:21 PM
It's good to see how their fans act just like them. To the very first accusation their show their victimism.

No one is claiming to be a victim. Just read the post and you will understand why I say this.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:22 PM
Yet....you have no problem going on and on about it. You have absolutely no idea of what transpired, and admit it.....you don't know if it has anything to do with race or not.

and you dont know what truely happend either or wether it had anything to do with race, so whats your point, least i've got a pair and can have an opinion on it!

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:26 PM
comments like this are why serena fans put me off her, she is openly saying she is going to break the rules, whatever her reasons she will still be breaking the rules, if posters on this board are not happy with that or her reasons for breaking them they have every right to post their opinion on it.

you spout shit like this because people are speaking up and not bowing down to the fact that she is serena williams, 8 grand slams or not theres rules and you can take a defensive attitude towards people disagreeing with her decision but it only shows you cant have a proper debate or discusion with differing views!

I really do not know how to respond to this but I will try my best. First of all, I am not Serena. Therefore, I DO NOT CARE if random people on a tennis forum bow down to her or not :tape:. The posts that I have responded to I have found unfair so I said soemthing. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I am sure if Chakvetadze had said that she felt uncomfortable playing in Madrid or whatever, you would say "I respect her decision." And you know what, I would too.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:27 PM
From your posts, I seriously doubt you have the ability to ever make this Williams fan feel victimized.

Actually I did not mean about my post and there is nothing further from my intentions than wanting anyone to feel victimized. It is just curious how their fans 'cry' as soon as you speak something against them.

RenaSlam.
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Good.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:30 PM
I really do not know how to respond to this but I will try my best. First of all, I am not Serena. Therefore, I DO NOT CARE if random people on a tennis forum bow down to her or not :tape:. The posts that I have responded to I have found unfair so I said soemthing. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I am sure if Chakvetadze had said that she felt uncomfortable playing in Madrid or whatever, you would say "I respect her decision." And you know what, I would too.

I would also respect that she is fined for it, rules are for everyone on tour. I really respect their decision, and if they do not want to go noone can force them but they should carry with the consecuencies of those decisions.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:31 PM
Actually I did not mean about my post and there is nothing further from my intentions than wanting anyone to feel victimized. It is just curious how their fans 'cry' as soon as you speak something against them.

Don't ALL fans do that (in general)? If I attacked someone you support and you thought it was an unfair assessment would not you repsond.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:31 PM
I really do not know how to respond to this but I will try my best. First of all, I am not Serena. Therefore, I DO NOT CARE if random people on a tennis forum bow down to her or not :tape:. The posts that I have responded to I have found unfair so I said soemthing. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I am sure if Chakvetadze had said that she felt uncomfortable playing in Madrid or whatever, you would say "I respect her decision." And you know what, I would too.

but she didn't say that 'shes standing up for her race' i would have respected her more had she said 'i've had my issues with IW which are well documented, i dont plan on playing it for personal reasons next year, if this means i have to take a fine or whatever, then thats what i will do'

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:33 PM
what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

Name one other player on the WTA tour that's ever been acused of match fixing. ....I'll wait.


So you're saying because they are sisters it's easy to see how they would commit a felony in order to not play a tennis match?

The crowd is racist becasue they can so easily believe the "sistahs" would cheat.

I'm sure the same people that believe Venus and Serena cheated them out of a match also are among the %12 of Idiots that believe Obama is a Muslim. (Not that that's any kind of crime/indictment)

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:34 PM
but she didn't say that 'shes standing up for her race' i would have respected her more had she said 'i've had my issues with IW which are well documented, i dont plan on playing it for personal reasons next year, if this means i have to take a fine or whatever, then thats what i will do'

To each's own I suppose. I am not going to keep arguing about this because her decision is already made fine or no fine.

Vincey!
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Good Decision, the tour is trying to control too much the players...Some guys out there are turning into a dictator or a Sect master.."You won't do that, you'll do this! Give me all your money!"

I'm wondering if the tour will keep that rule when they'll realize that some players are playing a bit injured to play those stupid mandatory tournments and are forced to not play at all most part of the year or when the Miami's crowd will destroy the WTA's office :devil:

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:35 PM
im sorry but this is not true, richard has been shouting his mouth of claiming the race card already this year.

R.I.F.

When have you known Venus or Serena to pull the race card?

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Don't ALL fans do that (in general)? If I attacked someone you support and you thought it was an unfair assessment would not you repsond.

I would, the thing is what you said was, 'I KNEW it was not going to take long before this thread turned into a Williams-bashing affair'. For these words what I understand is that is common as if they are always bashed. To me that is victimism because I don't think it is true but maybe I missunderstood your words.

Craig.
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:36 PM
So there'll be fines, but no suspension?

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Richard does have a tendency to exaggerate. I think the Sisters need to get over it. This happened years ago, and they were part of the problem. I am sure they would be well received if they were to compete now. If they refuse to compete, they should suffer whatever punishment the tour calls for. They are not above the Tour whatever they, or their fans, think.

they are over it. IW isn't on their schedules, and hopefully never will be.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:39 PM
Name one other player on the WTA tour that's ever been acused of match fixing. ....I'll wait.


So you're saying because they are sisters it's easy to see how they would commit a felony in order to not play a tennis match?

The crowd is racist becasue they can so easily believe the "sistahs" would cheat.

I'm sure the same people that believe Venus and Serena cheated them out of a match also are among the %12 of Idiots that believe Obama is a Muslim. (Not that that's any kind of crime/indictment)

again you make it about race, had it been 2 white sisters who carried themselves and acted the way the williams do/did and the same thing would have happend, they would have been jeered in the final to. the crowd didn't like venus pulling out when the stadium was full waiting for the players to walk out on court. venus fucked up the same way henin did pulling out half way through the oz open final and people bashed her endlessly for it, even momo in press confrences and shes white.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:39 PM
I'm sure the same people that believe Venus and Serena cheated them out of a match also are among the %12 of Idiots that believe Obama is a Muslim. (Not that that's any kind of crime/indictment)[/QUOTE]

What a ridiculous statement.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:40 PM
I would, the thing is what you said was, 'I KNEW it was not going to take long before this thread turned into a Williams-bashing affair'. For these words what I understand is that is common as if they are always bashed. To me that is victimism because I don't think it is true but maybe I missunderstood your words.

They are always overly disparaged. All top players are. So if I see a thread about Serena amking a controversial decision I know that there is going to be some "bashing" . I do not think that that is a victim mentality.

kiwifan
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:41 PM
i didn't know that the only thing you've said of substance in this thread. :rolleyes:


:wavey:

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:42 PM
I think that the whole idea of racial discrimination is stupid. And I think that any playing or their parents trying to bring it up are stupid. I don't particularly care for the sisters, although they are skilled, they both tend to be arrogant; especially Serena. I do love both of their games, but I do not like the way they, nor their father carry his or herself. It is stupid, and rather annoying. You can't just watch a simple match with one of the sisters in it, because in the states and elsewhere, the interviewers/commentators are too busy blowing up their(Venus && Serena) heads. I like their mother better, because she chooses to stay quiet, and enjoy he match. It's time Richard does too.

And Serena, honey... Grow up. It's really immature to get all pissy when you lose. You may not like losing, but it is a part of the game. Get the F used to it.

Name one top player in the history of tennis that wasn't arrogant? Seems to me it's only objectionable when the players involved are Venus and Serena.

Sorana_Cirstea
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Ana Ivanovic.

She's #1 in the world, and isn't the least bit cocky. Any more questions?

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:45 PM
They are always overly disparaged. All top players are. So if I see a thread about Serena amking a controversial decision I know that there is going to be some "bashing" . I do not think that that is a victim mentality.

bashing you have no idea what it means, try getting bad repped by people because chakvetadzes in your sig, or putting up with chakys shit every other post.
people dont generaly bash the williams (though there are 1 or 2 who are dicks that shouldn't be here) they just disagree with something or pull williams fans up on something when there ignoring facts or being disrespectful like saying 'serena beat serena'.
trust me you can count yourself lucky being a venus or serena fan!

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:45 PM
again you make it about race, had it been 2 white sisters who carried themselves and acted the way the williams do/did and the same thing would have happend, they would have been jeered in the final to. the crowd didn't like venus pulling out when the stadium was full waiting for the players to walk out on court. venus fucked up the same way henin did pulling out half way through the oz open final and people bashed her endlessly for it, even momo in press confrences and shes white.
Again, you've entered into another race argument, and you've shown your relative immaturity regarding this issue. You do this all the time. Your opening diatribe in this thread was tainted with ignorance, and then you went on later to admit that you don't fully know what happened.

This post is more evidence. You don't know what happened in the crowd, and now you are implying that Richard is lying when he says what he says. Sometimes it's best to keep quiet.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:45 PM
again you make it about race, had it been 2 white sisters who carried themselves and acted the way the williams do/did and the same thing would have happend, they would have been jeered in the final to. the crowd didn't like venus pulling out when the stadium was full waiting for the players to walk out on court. venus fucked up the same way henin did pulling out half way through the oz open final and people bashed her endlessly for it, even momo in press confrences and shes white.

and exactly how do the Williams sisters carry themselves?

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Name one top player in the history of tennis that wasn't arrogant? Seems to me it's only objectionable when the players involved are Venus and Serena.

mmm, do you think Federer is arrogant? Nadal? Davenport? Henin? And there are many that are/were arrogant but not to the limits of these two ladies. And as I said before I really think they have changed a bit and are nothing compared to the way they used to act.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:48 PM
the only thing you've said of substance in this thread. :rolleyes:


:wavey:

this post again shows someone who just cant have a debate on something concerning serena, whats the point of a forum if everyone agrees, i have given a very valid opinion you've chosen to ignore it. richard has lied in the past and i would never trust a word that comes out of his mouth!

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:49 PM
bashing you have no idea what it means, try getting bad repped by people because chakvetadzes in your sig, or putting up with chakys shit every other post.
people dont generaly bash the williams (though there are 1 or 2 who are dicks that shouldn't be here) they just disagree with something or pull williams fans up on something when there ignoring facts or being disrespectful like saying 'serena beat serena'.
trust me you can count yourself lucky being a venus or serena fan!

Definition of "bash":
vt criticize: to criticize harshly

I think it is fair to say that the Williams Sisters are "bashed".

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:49 PM
I would also respect that she is fined for it, rules are for everyone on tour. I really respect their decision, and if they do not want to go noone can force them but they should carry with the consecuencies of those decisions.

apparently they don't give a damn about being fined. so what's your beef?

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:50 PM
this post again shows someone who just cant have a debate on something concerning serena, whats the point of a forum if everyone agrees, i have given a very valid opinion you've chosen to ignore it. richard has lied in the past and i would never trust a word that comes out of his mouth!

You could not say it better. Do people really give any credit to the words of Richard Williams? It really surprises me.

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:51 PM
this post again shows someone who just cant have a debate on something concerning serena, whats the point of a forum if everyone agrees, i have given a very valid opinion you've chosen to ignore it. richard has lied in the past and i would never trust a word that comes out of his mouth!Kinda like how your "opinions" in discussions like these lack substance, eh?

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:52 PM
apparently they don't give a damn about being fined. so what's your beef?

They do not give a damn for sure, is their fans that do apparently. I really don't give a shit if they go or not but they should not be treated in any special way.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Kinda like how your "opinions" in discussions like these lack substance, eh?

least i've got an opinion! what have you done or contributed to this thread!?

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:53 PM
again you make it about race, had it been 2 white sisters who carried themselves and acted the way the williams do/did and the same thing would have happend, they would have been jeered in the final to. the crowd didn't like venus pulling out when the stadium was full waiting for the players to walk out on court. venus fucked up the same way henin did pulling out half way through the oz open final and people bashed her endlessly for it, even momo in press confrences and shes white.

was henin booed and jeered nonstop thoughout the award ceremony? has any player in the history of tennis including fed cup ever been booed and jeered from the first point thru to the trophy presentation?

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:55 PM
this post again shows someone who just cant have a debate on something concerning serena, whats the point of a forum if everyone agrees, i have given a very valid opinion you've chosen to ignore it. richard has lied in the past and i would never trust a word that comes out of his mouth!How do the Williams Sisters carry themselves?

FoxyliciousKhat
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:55 PM
what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

SO tell me how many other times before and since have the disappointed crowd BOOO the opponent who receive a walkover due to their opponent retiring whether it is last minute, or during a match? This situation has nothing to do with fans being disappointed that they were robbed of a match, because this has been happening for years. They just jumped to the conclusion that the sisters did not want to play each other and that Venus faked an injury. Whether it is racist or not we will never know, but not give them the benefit of the doubt so graciously afforded others is ridiculous.

Foxy

mal
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:55 PM
"I'm not going to Indian Wells," said the fifth-ranked American, who lost the Wimbledon final to older sister Venus. "That's just the bottom line."

"I honestly don't think they would want me to go," she added when asked about fulfilling promotional obligations to avoid a suspension. "I wouldn't have anything positive to say. It would be kind of shooting themselves in the foot. I would be more than happy to go and tell them how I really feel."

Serena's agent, Jill Smoller, said the eight-time Grand Slam champ would meet her obligations so that she could compete at the Sony Ericsson Open in Florida, which is the week after Indian Wells. Serena has won the Key Biscayne event five times.

"Some things you have to stand up for," Serena said. "There's been a lot of people in the past that are my race that have stood up for a lot more than not playing Indian Wells. That's the least I can do."

I can't wait for the racist tennis players to come out and start calling her nuts and cuckoo, (Venus I mean, not Serena).

And I'd like to hear what all the other black women tennis players have to say about it. Lets see how many of them criticize Venus, or start saying she's bullying Serena into making a stand.

HippityHop
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Ana Ivanovic.

She's #1 in the world, and isn't the least bit cocky. Any more questions?

She's also the best player in the world. She must be because she's ranked number one. :devil:

VishaalMaria
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:57 PM
They do not give a damn for sure, is their fans that do apparently. I really don't give a shit if they go or not but they should not be treated in any special way.


The WS dont "give a shit" as you put it, and they aren't asking for special treatment. The fans don't care either, they're just calling you out on your stupid [no offence] posts. There's a difference.

Methinks you just came into this thread to bash the WS on the sly, but that plan sure backfired.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:58 PM
She's also the best player in the world. She must be because she's ranked number one. :devil:

Jejeje, you are evil but totally agree. I miss Justine so much.

HippityHop
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:59 PM
bashing you have no idea what it means, try getting bad repped by people because chakvetadzes in your sig, or putting up with chakys shit every other post.
people dont generaly bash the williams (though there are 1 or 2 who are dicks that shouldn't be here) they just disagree with something or pull williams fans up on something when there ignoring facts or being disrespectful like saying 'serena beat serena'.
trust me you can count yourself lucky being a venus or serena fan!

Bad reps? Do people actually give a fat rat's ass about being bad repped on a message board? Some folks need to get a life in the real world. :rolleyes:

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:59 PM
was henin booed and jeered nonstop thoughout the award ceremony? has any player in the history of tennis including fed cup ever been booed and jeered from the first point thru to the trophy presentation?

did you not see the way maria and chaky were treated this year in fed cup, it was a lot worse than serena was treated trust me, the crowd was behind barbed wire and booed maria, intimidated her grunts, cheered every mistake, same with chaky, marias response was to say the atmosphere charged her up and she loved it and its what she played tennis for when she was obviously rattled!

In The Zone
Jul 17th, 2008, 03:59 PM
SO tell me how many other times before and since have the disappointed crowd BOOO the opponent who receive a walkover do to their opponent retiring whether it is last minute or during a match? This situation has nothing to do with fans being disappointed that they were robbed of a match because this has been happening for years. They just jumped to the conclusion that the sisters did not want to play each other and that Venus faked an injury. Whether it is racist or not we will never know but not give them the benefit of the doubt so graciously afforded others is ridiculous.

Foxy

Exactly. This is how we all need to think of it. The Sisters were clearly wronged and treated like dirt. I can't even recall the number of times I've seen someone who was not Venus or Serena withdraw minutes before a match and then nothing happens. Oh, and the fact that the trainer confirmed Venus' injury and told her not to compete is meaningless, right? Obviously race may be an issue, but running around accusing everyone of being racist doesn't make the situation better. There's no way to prove it. However, whether yellow, pink, purple, green, whatever -- the situation was a nightmare for the Williams family. Regardless of how they view it, you never relive a nightmare. They do not have to go back to Indian Wells. And for all those who criticize them for not returning are ignorant fools.

More importantly, I find it incredibly insulting that Venus or Serena would surrender their career, prize money, ranking points, etc. simply because they were playing their sister. I play with my brother and let me tell you, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER just give him a win. Venus and Serena are just as ( if not more ) competitive and professional. No way Venus and Serena would insult the likes of Billie Jean King, Navratilova, Graf, Seles, and Gibson by having "family decisions".

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:00 PM
Good for you, Serena. I'm not related to the sisters, but I still feel sick to my stomach remembering how a 19 yr old was booed from start to finish for the decision her sister had made. That is unforgivable to me. These people didn't even let up during the trophy presentation. Even when this teenage girl tried to light up the mood and said "you guys were very hard on me". They booed yet again. They should look at that tape and feel very ashamed of themselves. A Williams should not be forced to set their foot on that court ever again.

Serenita
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Well done serena! take stand to this BS!

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:01 PM
mmm, do you think Federer is arrogant? Nadal? Davenport? Henin? And there are many that are/were arrogant but not to the limits of these two ladies. And as I said before I really think they have changed a bit and are nothing compared to the way they used to act.

Yes they are all arrogant. They could not be top players w/out being overly confident, arrogant.

Steffi Graf was arrogant too. It's part of what makes them the best.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Bad reps? Do people actually give a fat rat's ass about being bad repped on a message board? Some folks need to get a life in the real world. :rolleyes:

tell that to the people that send them :rolleyes:

Pheobo
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Oh good. No Williams Sisters is the reason Indian Wells is one of my favorite tournaments to attend.

mal
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Whether it is racist or not we will never know but not give them the benefit of the doubt so graciously afforded others is ridiculous.

Foxy
Whether what was racist or not we will never know?
What we will never know is what is just around the corner, and please don't tell me you know what's around the corner, and it is a clothing chain and a butcher's shop.

I'm afraid to say, if Venus says she won't play at their racist club, it probably means it was more than just a slight racial slur, and she has been told in the past that she will never play there because she is black. If that is what she says, who are you to not know whether it is true or not?

Believe it or not, I was excluded from my local golf club, and I'm not even black, I'm white, but those attitudes persist, and they can exclude people who don't wear the right clothes, or because their hair is too long. people talk about people behind their backs, and in front of other people at their peril, because I exclude those people from my company, and I don't see any double standard in doing so.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:02 PM
The WS dont "give a shit" as you put it, and they aren't asking for special treatment. The fans don't care either, they're just calling you out on your stupid [no offence] posts. There's a difference.

Methinks you just came into this thread to bash the WS on the sly, but that plan sure backfired.

If you read the full thread before I even posted anything you will realised that what you say is not true, the fans if they wouldn't care they would have not started complaining. And I guarantee you bashing them was not my intention I am just giving my opinion (this is what a forum is for, right?) Should all opinions be respected? Or just the ones of those who praised the WS?

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:04 PM
this post again shows someone who just cant have a debate on something concerning serena, whats the point of a forum if everyone agrees, i have given a very valid opinion you've chosen to ignore it. richard has lied in the past and i would never trust a word that comes out of his mouth!

understandable. but what does that have to do w/Venus and Serena not wanting to ever play there again?

People thought Richard lied when he said his girls would dominate the tour and be number one and two in the world.

FoxyliciousKhat
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:04 PM
Richard does have a tendency to exaggerate. I think the Sisters need to get over it. This happened years ago, and they were part of the problem. I am sure they would be well received if they were to compete now. If they refuse to compete, they should suffer whatever punishment the tour calls for. They are not above the Tour whatever they, or their fans, think.

I think that the whole idea of racial discrimination is stupid. And I think that any playing or their parents trying to bring it up are stupid. I don't particularly care for the sisters, although they are skilled, they both tend to be arrogant; especially Serena. I do love both of their games, but I do not like the way they, nor their father carry his or herself. It is stupid, and rather annoying. You can't just watch a simple match with one of the sisters in it, because in the states and elsewhere, the interviewers/commentators are too busy blowing up their(Venus && Serena) heads. I like their mother better, because she chooses to stay quiet, and enjoy he match. It's time Richard does too.

And Serena, honey... Grow up. It's really immature to get all pissy when you lose. You may not like losing, but it is a part of the game. Get the F used to it.

You know what ALWAYS amazes me?! Going to Forums whenever this topic is up and seeing the vast number of posters with American flags, rooting for every player from the most obscure places list every other American (even Rodddick with his attitude) except the sisters then claim they are ignorant and deserve not to get their support. And then they claim the sisters using racism when there is none. Yeah right!

Foxy

mal
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:05 PM
Oh good. No Williams Sisters is the reason Indian Wells is one of my favorite tournaments to attend.

You are probably the type of person who eats their own children.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:07 PM
mmm, do you think Federer is arrogant? Nadal? Davenport? Henin? And there are many that are/were arrogant but not to the limits of these two ladies. And as I said before I really think they have changed a bit and are nothing compared to the way they used to act.

how did they used to act?

Why is it ok for other players to be arrogant but not the sisters?

I can tell you from personal exp. some white people have a hard time dealing w/confident don't know their place blacks, but have no problem w/someone that looks more like themselves expressing the same views/or attitude.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Yes they are all arrogant. They could not be top players w/out being overly confident, arrogant.

Steffi Graf was arrogant too. It's part of what makes them the best.

Being confident is nothing to do with being arrogant. Nadal is one of the most modest players on tour(at least for his declarations he seems)

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:08 PM
understandable. but what does that have to do w/Venus and Serena not wanting to ever play there again?

People thought Richard lied when he said his girls would dominate the tour and be number one and two in the world.

please read my post, i've never said they should play, i said if serena dosen't want to then well ok, its been the same for 7 years, i just wasn't happy with the reasoning for not playing and the way she put it.
people will just jump on my back assume i hate serena think they should play when none of this is true!

FoxyliciousKhat
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Whether what was racist or not we will never know?
What we will never know is what is just around the corner, and please don't tell me you know what's around the corner, and it is a clothing chain and a butcher's shop.

I'm afraid to say, if Venus says she won't play at their racist club, it probably means it was more than just a slight racial slur, and she has been told in the past that she will never play there because she is black. If that is what she says, who are you to not know whether it is true or not?

Believe it or not, I was excluded from my local golf club, and I'm not even black, I'm white, but those attitudes persist, and they can exclude people who don't wear the right clothes, or because their hair is too long. people talk about people behind their backs, and in front of other people at their peril, because I exclude those people from my company, and I don't see any double standard in doing so.

Whether what happened at IW, and of course we are only going on perception but like you said people talk behind your backs etc. Who knows maybe they are saying something positive but you perceive it must be negative. The thing is we don't know, but Venus and Serena clearly felt based on how they were treated that is was racially motivated. They could be wrong of course but who are we to tell them, they should suck it up and go back to a place they are not comfortable at?

Foxy

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:11 PM
Oh good. No Williams Sisters is the reason Indian Wells is one of my favorite tournaments to attend.They beat your favs too, eh?:lol:

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:11 PM
They do not give a damn for sure, is their fans that do apparently. I really don't give a shit if they go or not but they should not be treated in any special way.

Who said anything about special treatment? they will be fined or they will do the extra promotional work. Why would any of their fans care about them being fined? I don't believe any of them will be making financial contributions to help defray the cost.

Sorana_Cirstea
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:11 PM
You know what ALWAYS amazes me?! Going to Forums whenever this topic is up and seeing the vast number of posters with American flags, rooting for every player from the most obscure places list every other American (even Rodddick with his attitude) except the sisters then claim they are ignorant and deserve not to get their support. And then they claim the sisters using racism when there is none. Yeah right!

Foxy


Look at my signature again. I don't believe any of those women are american. Thanks.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:12 PM
how did they used to act?

Why is it ok for other players to be arrogant but not the sisters?

I can tell you from personal exp. some white people have a hard time dealing w/confident don't know their place blacks, but have no problem w/someone that looks more like themselves expressing the same views/or attitude.

For sure, this is not an ideal world and unfortunately there are lots of bigotry and racist people. In my opinion Hingis was as arrogant (if not even more) and that is why I disliked her so much though I loved to see her play (exactly the same that happens to me with the WS). Love the watch them play I dislike them personally (and is nothing to do with race in my case)

Miss Amor
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:12 PM
who cares what the fucking haters say...


for serena..you go girl...stick to your principles :worship:

VishaalMaria
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:13 PM
If you read the full thread before I even posted anything you will realised that what you say is not true, the fans if they wouldn't care they would have not started complaining. And I guarantee you bashing them was not my intention I am just giving my opinion (this is what a forum is for, right?) Should all opinions be respected? Or just the ones of those who praised the WS?


I did read the whole post, which made me informed of what was being said and so accordingly I posted. What do you take me for? :P ;)

Giving your opinion is what the forum is for, but hating is something else; that's my opinion. If you didnt care about this whole WS deal, then you wouldnt be in the thread so you obviously care moreso than the supposed WS fans do about the whole thing.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Whether what happened at IW, and of course we are only going on perception but like you said people talk behind your backs etc. Who knows maybe they are saying something positive but you perceive it must be negative. The thing is we don't know, but Venus and Serena clearly felt based on how they were treated that is was racially motivated. They could be wrong of course but who are we to tell them, they should suck it up and go back to a place they are not comfortable at?

Foxy

Absolutely not!! If they don't feel confortable for whatever the reason they should not go (if WS on Indian Wells or whoever in any tournamet) just pay the fine, end of the story.

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:15 PM
who cares what the fucking haters say...


for serena..you go girl...stick to your principles :worship:I only gave this post a cursory glance, and I thought it read, "stick to your nipples." :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

This thread was about to really get interesting.

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Absolutely not!! If they don't feel confortable for whatever the reason they should not go (if WS on Indian Wells or whoever in any tournamet) just pay the fine, end of the story.

They are going to be fined and they are not goign to go. Okay then. You have no arguement.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:17 PM
I did read the whole post, which made me informed of what was being said and so accordingly I posted. What do you take me for? :P ;)

Giving your opinion is what the forum is for, but hating is something else; that's my opinion. If you didnt care about this whole WS deal, then you wouldnt be in the thread so you obviously care moreso than the supposed WS fans do about the whole thing.

So now I am a hater?? Ok, right, whatever you say.

FoxyliciousKhat
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Look at my signature again. I don't believe any of those women are american. Thanks.

I never said you were one, I SAID THE VAST MAJORITY! Reading is fundamental! Plus just because you don't list all your faves in your signature do not mean you don't root for some American at some point.

Foxy

Philbo
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:19 PM
Good for the sisters! Taking a principled stand is something I applaud!

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Because they are going to get fined for this :shrug: . Which is obviously unfair. Otherwise, I agree with you.

No, I have no argument, you were the one that saw it unfair I just disagree with your statement.

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:20 PM
did you not see the way maria and chaky were treated this year in fed cup, it was a lot worse than serena was treated trust me, the crowd was behind barbed wire and booed maria, intimidated her grunts, cheered every mistake, same with chaky, marias response was to say the atmosphere charged her up and she loved it and its what she played tennis for when she was obviously rattled!

Fed Cup is a different story. Things like that are expected. The crowd cheer for their team and jeer the opponents. Can you imagine a player being booed in their own country, by the people who are supposed to be on her side? I've been watching tennis since 1989, the only other American booed by her own crowd was Venus Williams at the US Open a few years later while playing against Amelie Mauresmo. The American crowd wanted the French player to beat their own:-(

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:21 PM
please read my post, i've never said they should play, i said if serena dosen't want to then well ok, its been the same for 7 years, i just wasn't happy with the reasoning for not playing and the way she put it.
people will just jump on my back assume i hate serena think they should play when none of this is true!

WTF do you care? Reasoning? If they say they were treated unfairly who the hell are you to say they weren't? Where you there? Have you put yourself in their shoes?

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:22 PM
Fed Cup is a different story. Things like that are expected. The crowd cheer for their team and jeer the opponents. Can you imagine a player being booed in their own country, by the people who are supposed to be on her side? I've been watching tennis since 1989, the only other American booed by her own crowd was Venus Williams at the US Open a few years later while playing against Amelie Mauresmo. The American crowd wanted the French player to beat their own:-(

mary pierce list her match against rittner as one of her worst when the french crowd turned agaist her and it wasn't because of her race!

VishaalMaria
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:23 PM
So now I am a hater?? Ok, right, whatever you say.


It's funny how you didnt respond to anything else I said in that post.......

Hater? I sense we're going to go off topic, so I'm going to stop this here. I dont mind getting involved into a proper, mature discussion with you but this is childish.

Have a nice day.

eck
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:24 PM
Serena :yeah:

Larry :help:

supergrunt
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:24 PM
No, I have no argument, you were the one that saw it unfair I just disagree with your statement.

I think it is unfair but if they pay the fines then whatever. I understand.

ASP0315
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:24 PM
I looked at some posters who are complaining about getting fined.

whats the big deal of getting fined.? :lol:
that fine is just a pocket change for the Williams sisters. ;)
Apart from thier regular tour salary, They earn a lot thorugh ads, commericials , appearence money etc etc.
I'm pretty sure they don't have problems with paying the fine and skipping the event. ;)

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:25 PM
WTF do you care? Reasoning? If they say they were treated unfairly who the hell are you to say they weren't? Where you there? Have you put yourself in their shoes?

your not in there shoes either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so who the hell are you to stick up for them or tell me otherwise, dont be so stupid no one truely knows what happend it dosen't stop people having a opinion for or against them, which we are both doing!

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:29 PM
[quote]Serena won't play Indian Wells; WTA's new rule won't change it
I think Scott initially thought he could bully the sisters into playing at Indian Wells but he should have known better.


The sisters and their father, Richard, have said they believe the crowd's actions were racially motivated. Racially motivated is a nice way of them stating it It's not as though they were just booed, the fact is that they were called racial names. IMO, that's a big difference.

"I honestly don't think they would want me to go," she added when asked about fulfilling promotional obligations to avoid a suspension. "I wouldn't have anything positive to say. It would be kind of shooting themselves in the foot. I would be more than happy to go and tell them how I really feel." I know that's right.:lol:

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:31 PM
mary pierce list her match against rittner as one of her worst when the french crowd turned agaist her and it wasn't because of her race!

yoU ARE just ignorant. and Mary is as French as a hamburger.

for a gay, you sure don't have much empathy for anyone else. would you go swishing through a biker bar in Texas? Do you want to live in the town where Matthew Shephard was strung to a fence and left to die because of his sexuality? Now apply that reasoning to Venus and Serena not wanting to play at IW.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:31 PM
It's funny how you didnt respond to anything else I said in that post.......

Hater? I sense we're going to go off topic, so I'm going to stop this here. I dont mind getting involved into a proper, mature discussion with you but this is childish.

Have a nice day.

That's because I am not going to reply to someone that suggest that I am not giving my opinion but hatting (maybe my english is not good enough and I don't understand your post) Anyway, no point in going any further about this.

Serenita
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:32 PM
Well i find that Serena is doing the right thing, not to participate in Indian wells.
This is an example of great strength and courage, espacially in this world where allmost everybody, runs and follow the rest of the crowd!(peer presure)

So for all you haters and bashers; learn that the most popular road, not alway's is the best road to go with. Learn to have a backbone!

serenafan08
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:33 PM
WTG Serena. :yeah: She knows that she's a pioneer for this sport in many ways. I think it's great to see a player stick to their guns even when it's not the most convenient thing to do. Serena and Venus will do the promotional stuff and that'll be that.

mal
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:36 PM
yoU ARE just ignorant. and Mary is as French as a hamburger.

for a gay, you sure don't have much empathy for anyone else. would you go swishing through a biker bar in Texas? Do you want to live in the town where Matthew Shephard was strung to a fence and left to die because of his sexuality? Now apply that reasoning to Venus and Serena not wanting to play at IW.

She may have been French, but I'll let you into a little secret, Mary pierce was as UGLY as hamburger.

At least Maria Sharapova is beautiful, and I guess the Williams are black and ugly too. Oh well.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:37 PM
your not in there shoes either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so who the hell are you to stick up for them or tell me otherwise, dont be so stupid no one truely knows what happend it dosen't stop people having a opinion for or against them, which we are both doing!

i've been in situations where I felt i was treated unfairly, and the treatment was racially motivated. So yes i can say i've been in their shoes.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:40 PM
Well i find that Serena is doing the right thing, not to participate in Indian wells.
This is an example of great strength and courage, espacially in this world where allmost everybody, runs and follow the rest of the crowd!(peer presure)

So for all you haters and bashers; learn that the most popular road, not alway's is the best road to go with. Learn to have a backbone!


With that you just lost any kind of credibility your words could have. It is very easy to insult someone that you do not agree with but next time try just with arguments, they are much more effective.

Serenita
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:40 PM
She may have been French, but I'll let you into a little secret, Mary pierce was as UGLY as hamburger.

At least Maria Sharapova is beautiful, and I guess the Williams are black and ugly too. Oh well.


what a statement, i guess this say's so much of your caracter, i feel sorry for you.:sad:

Olórin
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:43 PM
With that you just lost any kind of credibility your words could have. It is very easy to insult someone that you do not agree with but next time try just with arguments, they are much more effective.

The credibility of Moriah's words are just fine. The words of someone who has disabled their rep system, has less than 100 posts and goes around threads like these nit picking and looking for arguments are far more questionable. :)

Bijoux0021
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:44 PM
SO tell me how many other times before and since have the disappointed crowd BOOO the opponent who receive a walkover do to their opponent retiring whether it is last minute or during a match? This situation has nothing to do with fans being disappointed that they were robbed of a match because this has been happening for years. They just jumped to the conclusion that the sisters did not want to play each other and that Venus faked an injury. Whether it is racist or not we will never know but not give them the benefit of the doubt so graciously afforded others is ridiculous.

Foxy
:worship::worship::worship:

EXACTLY!

And I don't understand why on earth do Williams haters care to see Venus and Serena play tennis at Indian Wells or any other place. If I don't like a player, I don't care to see her/him play unless s/he is playing one of my favorites.

Il Primo!
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I'd be pissed if she's not allowed to enter Miami because of this though :o

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:46 PM
I'd be pissed if she's not allowed to enter Miami because of this though :oTrust me....I don't think you'd be more pissed than the organizers of the Miami tournament.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:48 PM
:worship::worship::worship:

EXACTLY!

And I don't understand why on earth do Williams haters care to see Venus and Serena play tennis at Indian Wells or any other place. If I don't like a player, I don't care to see her/him play unless s/he is playing one of my favorites.

exactly. Which was Venus' initial response to why she does not want to play there ever again. They obviously don't appreciate our tennis and I only want to play where i'm appreciated.

I'd be pissed if she's not allowed to enter Miami because of this though :o

you won't be pissed because that will not happen.

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:49 PM
The credibility of Moriah's words are just fine. The words of someone who has disabled their rep system, has less than 100 posts and goes around threads like these nit picking and looking for arguments are far more questionable. :)

Right, so for being new and having less than 100 post I have less credibility, ok, I kind of understand that. To be honest I have no idea of what the rep system is (maybe because I'm new?), maybe you could explain me because I haven't looked much into putting this thing up. And I am not looking for arguments, just giving my opinion that has been distorted into a way that so far I have been called hater. Anyway, I will wait a couple of years until I have thousands of posts so my opinion can be taken into account without being accused of looking for arguments.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:49 PM
i've been in situations where I felt i was treated unfairly, and the treatment was racially motivated. So yes i can say i've been in their shoes.

for a gay, you sure don't have much empathy for anyone else

something you've posted a few mins ago towards me, so because im gay i should be soft and have empathy or should empathise with anyone else who has been treated unfairly? you pigeon holed me and have assumed that me being gay dictates my charecter or should do.
i let this slip by me as i understand what you meant, but its a example of assuming the way i should think because of my minority! it happens all the time and i dont think your homophobic, the same way as people can assume things about the williams's because there black but the people saying it are not racist!

jjlove
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:52 PM
for a gay, you sure don't have much empathy for anyone else

something you've posted a few mins ago towards me, so because im gay i should be soft and have empathy or should empathise with anyone else who has been treated unfairly? you pigeon holed me and have assumed that me being gay dictates my charecter or should do.
i let this slip by me as i understand what you meant, but its a example of assuming the way i should think because of my minority! it happens all the time and i dont think your homophobic, the same way as people can assume things about the williams's because there black but the people saying it are not racist!

:worship::worship::worship:

ASP0315
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:58 PM
regardless weather or not serena is playing indian well or not.
We can all agree on one thing. WTA rules next year are a fucking joke.
They are already banning some top ten players next year in some of tier II and Tier III events. They are already destryoing the wta tour because of these stupid rules. players have the right to play whatever event they like.

The Sad thing Serena isn't allowed to defend her Banglore title next year because of the stupid wta tour rules.

jimbo mack
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:59 PM
i'm in full support for serena in this decision

larry needs to realise he cant control the tour fully, we do not live in an ideal world

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 04:59 PM
for a gay, you sure don't have much empathy for anyone else

something you've posted a few mins ago towards me, so because im gay i should be soft and have empathy or should empathise with anyone else who has been treated unfairly? you pigeon holed me and have assumed that me being gay dictates my charecter or should do.
i let this slip by me as i understand what you meant, but its a example of assuming the way i should think because of my minority! it happens all the time and i dont think your homophobic, the same way as people can assume things about the williams's because there black but the people saying it are not racist!

I'm glad that you caught the gist of what i was trying to say. If you've ever felt you've been treated unfairly because you are gay, then you should be able to begin to understand what that how that feels when other minorities are treated unfairly. I was saying nothing about your character. I don't know you, only your short sighted ignorance.

Dawn Marie
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:03 PM
You act like there no racism in tennis. You apparently didn't watch many of Serena's LIVE matches. Did you see it a couple of years ago when the racist white man called Serena names while she was playing tennis. They kicked his ass out. IT WAS ON TV. Not sure what tournament it was. You werent at Indian Wells. V@S left that tournament for good. The Tournament apologized to V@S. Yet you still think that it was all made up. Many playes pull out and don't get the treatement that V@S have gotten in the past.

You can't accept that white folks have treated Venus and Serena badly at Indian Wells. Hopefully this thread will make you understand yourself. Why are you so quick to discount what happened. Racism and Sexism are alive and well in this sport but look inside your soul and accept reality. Many people can't accept this because it's their own own race at fault. top looking at race and just realize that some people at Indian Wells were treating the family wrong. Really get over it.

VENUS AND SERENA dont play INDIAN WELLS BECAUSE OF THE OVERT RACISM THAT OCURED THAT DAY IN 2001.

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:05 PM
mary pierce list her match against rittner as one of her worst when the french crowd turned agaist her and it wasn't because of her race!

Yes, French crowds boo their players when they're not playing well out of the desire to see them do better. To my knowledge, Serena was doing great against Kim despite the booing and Venus was fighting for her life against Amelie in NY. Yet the American crowd wanted to see them lose.

Bijoux0021
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:05 PM
Good for you, Serena. I'm not related to the sisters, but I still feel sick to my stomach remembering how a 19 yr old was booed from start to finish for the decision her sister had made. That is unforgivable to me. These people didn't even let up during the trophy presentation. Even when this teenage girl tried to light up the mood and said "you guys were very hard on me". They booed yet again. They should look at that tape and feel very ashamed of themselves. A Williams should not be forced to set their foot on that court ever again.

Fed Cup is a different story. Things like that are expected. The crowd cheer for their team and jeer the opponents. Can you imagine a player being booed in their own country, by the people who are supposed to be on her side? I've been watching tennis since 1989, the only other American booed by her own crowd was Venus Williams at the US Open a few years later while playing against Amelie Mauresmo. The American crowd wanted the French player to beat their own:-(
DITTO!

In The Zone
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:06 PM
I'm glad that you caught the gist of what i was trying to say. If you've ever felt you've been treated unfairly because you are gay, then you should be able to begin to understand what that how that feels when other minorities are treated unfairly. I was saying nothing about your character. I don't know you, only your short sighted ignorance.

You act like there no racism in tennis. You apparently didn't watch many of Serena's LIVE matches. Did you see it a couple of years ago when the racist white man called Serena names while she was playing tennis. They kicked his ass out. IT WAS ON TV. Not sure what tournament it was. You werent at Indian Wells. V@S left that tournament for good. The Tournament apologized to V@S. Yet you still think that it was all made up. Many playes pull out and don't get the treatement that V@S have gotten in the past.

You can't accept that white folks have treated Venus and Serena badly at Indian Wells. Hopefully this thread will make you understand yourself. Why are you so quick to discount what happened. Racism and Sexism are alive and well in this sport but look inside your soul and accept reality. Many people can't accept this because it's their own own race at fault. top looking at race and just realize that some people at Indian Wells were treating the family wrong. Really get over it.

VENUS AND SERENA dont play INDIAN WELLS BECAUSE OF THE OVERT RACISM THAT OCURED THAT DAY IN 2001.

Notice the difference in class and intelligence between these two posts which both are saying the same thing. Dawn Marie, :rolleyes:, the Williams Fans were doing a great job and then .. that.

Philbo
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Once upon a time, a few years ago, I was on my way to the Olympic tennis centre in Sydney to watch a semi final of the Adidas International between Mauresmo and Davenport.

Mauresmo pulled out of the match about half before play was meant to start. I was disapointed. But did I think that was reason to boo Mauresmo the next year? No. The media is partly to blame with the Indian Welles furore for perpetuating the stupid stupid insinuation that the sisters fix their matches...

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:12 PM
Yes, French crowds boo their players when they're not playing well out of the desire to see them do better. To my knowledge, Serena was doing great against Kim despite the booing and Venus was fighting for her life against Amelie in NY. Yet the American crowd wanted to see them lose.

serena lost the 1st set to kim if i remember rightly, but still they weren't booing to encourage her, but they weren't to mary either, they were booing because she choked she was incontrol and lost it. no one boos to encourage, mary was treated realy badly that day to by the french crowd theres no denying it!

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:27 PM
And Serena, honey... Grow up. It's really immature to get all pissy when you lose. You may not like losing, but it is a part of the game. Get the F used to it.

:unsure: :scratch: She actually won the tournament that year :scratch:

What the "F" are you talking about?
Once upon a time, a few years ago, I was on my way to the Olympic tennis centre in Sydney to watch a semi final of the Adidas International between Mauresmo and Davenport.

Mauresmo pulled out of the match about half before play was meant to start. I was disapointed. But did I think that was reason to boo Mauresmo the next year? No. The media is partly to blame with the Indian Welles furore for perpetuating the stupid stupid insinuation that the sisters fix their matches...
:worship:
Serena and Venus might have had ugly, nervous matches, but the ONLY insinuation that their matches were fixed came from the media/tennis "authorities".

What about the Maleeva/Bondarenko/Serra Zanetti sisters? Did anyone ever accuse them of fixing their matches? :unsure:
NOPE!

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:28 PM
So there'll be fines, but no suspension?It's the tour's option. But preventing the Wimbledon champ, and the most accomplished player on the tour, from playing Miami or Rome or Beijing wouldn't be in the interest of the tour. Especially since it would drag the annual Indian Well contretemps into other parts of the year.

The only way suspensions happen is if Larry Scott loses his mind, or Venus and/or Serena decide they want to make a point.

Kart
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:30 PM
It never ceases to amuse me that this topic comes up year after year.

There's never been even the remotest possibility of them playing there ever again after what happened.

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:31 PM
what this is so stupid whats this got to do wit race? the crowd were not nice to her which was unacceptable but it was because they thought venus pulling out of her semi last minute with a packed stadium was wrong and were angry. had serena beat venus in the semi's the crowd would have been totaly on the side of serena in the final, but most of the people attending the final were the same that felt they were robbed of a semi final because the sisters didn't want to play each other. race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!
Being called racial slurs has everything to do with race. :smash:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:33 PM
comments like this are why serena fans put me off her, she is openly saying she is going to break the rules, whatever her reasons she will still be breaking the rules, if posters on this board are not happy with that or her reasons for breaking them they have every right to post their opinion on it.

She said she was never playing IW again, before it was a rule. She's not going to change her principles because of a new "rule". And OBVIOUSLY she, and her sister, are not in the wrong, or else Larry Scott wouldn't have gone through SO many measures to make sure that this situation works out cleanly for all parties invovled (WTA, Williams Sisters, tournaments)

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:36 PM
race had nothing to do with it, like i said had serena beaten venus fairly in the semi's the crowd would have been on her side!

You've OBVIOUSLY not watched a lot of Venus and Serena's earlier matches. Crowds (even in the US) were RARELY on their side. Commentators talked about it a LOT and were quite perplexed that crowds would be cheering much louder for the WS opponents than for the WS.

serenus_2k8
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:39 PM
serena lost the 1st set to kim if i remember rightly, but still they weren't booing to encourage her, but they weren't to mary either, they were booing because she choked she was incontrol and lost it. no one boos to encourage, mary was treated realy badly that day to by the french crowd theres no denying it!

Why dont you just be happy that Jokevetadze has a more respectable chance of stringing together some matches when the WS arent around and leave the important comments to those who know what happened fool.

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:39 PM
You've OBVIOUSLY not watched a lot of Venus and Serena's earlier matches. Crowds (even in the US) were RARELY on their side. Commentators talked about it a LOT and were quite perplexed that crowds would be cheering much louder for the WS opponents than for the WS.A very good point. It actually came up in quite a number of post-match interviews as well.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Why dont you just be happy that Jokevetadze has a more respectable chance of stringing together some matches when the WS arent around and leave the important comments to those who know what happened?

there you go attack chaky, how mature of you!

after you said that anything else you post is as a HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slutiana
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:44 PM
i didn't know that, but then i never truely trust anything richard says. i dont realy mind either way if serena plays IW or not she hasn't for 7 years and its made no difference, though this wont be the only case like this with IW and miami there will be others not playing 1 making up stupid injuries or getting fined!

Well richard also said his girls would be the world no.1 and no.2 and win GSs left, right and center. He predicted Venus to win Wimbledon last year and there are many more predictions. No one believed him then... ;) Trust me, as a black person I know how it feels to be racially abused. Even if they didn't tell him that they'd skin him alive, it probably was racially motivated joking or no joking and I admire Venus and Serena for sticking to their guns. Please don't start a whole other racial argument again because Im sorry but until you experience people being racist to you, you have no right to accuse him of pulling the race card or whatever.

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Is there any other off-court topic in women's tennis that inspires more passion than this? It was seven years ago, a tennislifetime and then some. And people are still freaking out over it. The principals are letting practicality reign. As long as one or both of the Williams sisters are defending slam champs, they aren't going to be suspended from anything. And the fines won't be large enough to matter to them. It might have been better for the WTA to only require players to make four out of five 'required' tournaments, but the new rules aren't unfair. Or rather, they are equally unfair to all the players.

Davenport skipped Miami for years. Will she play next year? Maybe. Maybe not. If the air quailty at the Olympics is as bad as advertised, there could be mass pull-outs from Beijing 2009.

kwilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:51 PM
I couldn't be bothered reading the petty arguments in this thread but to get back to the original subject matter...

The sisters have every right to pick and choose what tournaments they do and don't play in. Serena has won 8 slams. Venus has won 7 slams. Next in line are Davenport and Sharapova. Right now they are the most accomplished players in the sport. You can say all you like about how great Sharapovan, Ivanovic and whoever else you like are...and you're dead right - they are great but not as great as either sister...yet (and I do concede that that is just 'yet').

Who the fuck cares whether the crowd were or weren't racist...the bottom line is they felt the crowd's reaction was racially motivated (they haven't complained other crowds were racist, just this one) and they have chosen not to play the tournament again. It is their choice...are they being over sensitive...maybe, maybe not but they are not the ones making an issue out of it. They have been tight lipped until now. All they have said is that they won't play it. I'm glad Serena finally broke and said what she said and I fully support both sisters in their decision.

If the tour wants to shoot itself in the foot as well as perhaps shooting other tournaments, such as Miami, in the foot then that is entirely their decision.

Personally, I don't want to ever see the sisters playing IW again, purely because I know they wouldn't feel in the least bit comfortable doing so and I have the utmost respect for their professionalism and dedication to the sport.

The executives of the tour should respect the very personal choices of its two most accomplished players.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:52 PM
but she didn't say that 'shes standing up for her race' i would have respected her more had she said 'i've had my issues with IW which are well documented, i dont plan on playing it for personal reasons next year, if this means i have to take a fine or whatever, then thats what i will do'
OH, I get it. So you're saying you BASICALLY agree with what she said, you just wanted to word it better.
You should be Serena's P.R. director. Too bad you're 7 years late. The "disappointed crowd" at Indian Wells (who had a day to cool off AND free tickets to a Tier I FINAL) could have used someone with your gift of wordcraft.

:rolleyes:

gmak
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:54 PM
:yeah: Serena

i remember watching the final being a big fan of Kim, but the crowd was just horrible!
i felt really bad for Serena for something which definitely wasn't her fault :shrug:

and winning that match under those circumstances shows you how tough she is!

if i was Serena, i would never play IW again!

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:55 PM
again you make it about race, had it been 2 white sisters who carried themselves and acted the way the williams do/did and the same thing would have happend, they would have been jeered in the final to. the crowd didn't like venus pulling out when the stadium was full waiting for the players to walk out on court. venus fucked up the same way henin did pulling out half way through the oz open final and people bashed her endlessly for it, even momo in press confrences and shes white.
Ok, so boo Venus. Boo Venus (and Richard for that matter) until your vocal chords come FLYING out of your mouth, but why boo Serena :shrug:


unless.....;)

serenus_2k8
Jul 17th, 2008, 05:58 PM
there you go attack chaky, how mature of you!

after you said that anything else you post is as a HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of being mature is learning when its appropriate to speak and when you should stay out of conversations that dont concern you rather than feeling the need to express an ignorant opinion, which clearly you havent realised.


If you aren't a hater yourself, why do you feel the need to come in here and talk about how the WS are making out that race wasnt the issue when you know NOTHING on the topic. Sit down and shut up.

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Ok, so boo Venus. Boo Venus (and Richard for that matter) until your vocal chords come FLYING out of your mouth, but why boo Serena :shrug:


unless.....;)

thats the whole thing, venus left and let lil sister deal with the unhappy people that felt robbed of a match, if the crowds at IW were so racist, why did we hear nothing about this in their earlier rounds or qtr finals?
serena didn't get booed in any of her other matches which tells me it was down to the situation not there hate for her!

Pureracket
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:04 PM
thats the whole thing, venus left and let lil sister deal with the unhappy people that felt robbed of a match, if the crowds at IW were so racist, why did we hear nothing about this in their earlier rounds or qtr finals?
serena didn't get booed in any of her other matches which tells me it was down to the situation not there hate for her!LOL!!!!! Somebody is daring you to say this shit! Admit it. When did Venus "leave" Serena? I'm seriously beginning to think you never saw the match nor did you know about the semi. You've been (mis)informed by hearsay.

Since it seems you have an inside track (for some reason), give us more things that motivate racists.

Serenita
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I think this can motivate many more people in standing up for there principles.
I just love the fact that, that WTAtour and IW tried to pressure serena and venus. And they just didn't give into that presurre. like i said many times they are not only great tennis players, but they are also great rolemodels, for blacks and whites. That you can stand-up and be strong for what you believe in.

for all Good people!

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:09 PM
serena lost the 1st set to kim if i remember rightly, but still they weren't booing to encourage her, but they weren't to mary either, they were booing because she choked she was incontrol and lost it. no one boos to encourage, mary was treated realy badly that day to by the french crowd theres no denying it!

Let's rephrase then. Mary was booed b/c her home crowd was disappointed in her performance. They expected and wanted her to win the match. The Williams were booed b/c their home crowd wanted them to lose. But I'm sure you already knew what the point was.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:12 PM
did you not see the way maria and chaky were treated this year in fed cup, it was a lot worse than serena was treated trust me, the crowd was behind barbed wire and booed maria, intimidated her grunts, cheered every mistake, same with chaky, marias response was to say the atmosphere charged her up and she loved it and its what she played tennis for when she was obviously rattled!

Ok...that was a Fed Cup AWAY match. :shrug: That's fair.


Now explain that kind of behavior (CONSTANT boos from WALK-OUT to TROPHY CEREMONY) IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY! IN THE STATE YOU'RE FROM!?!?

Seriously, come on. In the words of:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/derby/content/images/2005/06/21/tennis_mcenroe_argues_body_203x152.jpg
You CANNOT be serious!

serenus_2k8
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:14 PM
thats the whole thing, venus left and let lil sister deal with the unhappy people that felt robbed of a match, if the crowds at IW were so racist, why did we hear nothing about this in their earlier rounds or qtr finals?
serena didn't get booed in any of her other matches which tells me it was down to the situation not there hate for her!

Please, just shut up, I beg you.

moby
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:17 PM
EFDHvi7moVs

I actually think the 99 final is better evidence for the IW crowd being racist than the 2001 fiasco. Am I the only one hearing the catcalls after Serena won?

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Pheobo http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images2007/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=13643940#post13643940)
Oh good. No Williams Sisters is the reason Indian Wells is one of my favorite tournaments to attend.

They beat your favs too, eh?:lol:
:shrug: who's faves haven't they beaten :lol:

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Is there any other off-court topic in women's tennis that inspires more passion than this? It was seven years ago, a tennislifetime and then some. And people are still freaking out over it. The principals are letting practicality reign. As long as one or both of the Williams sisters are defending slam champs, they aren't going to be suspended from anything. And the fines won't be large enough to matter to them. It might have been better for the WTA to only require players to make four out of five 'required' tournaments, but the new rules aren't unfair. Or rather, they are equally unfair to all the players.

Davenport skipped Miami for years. Will she play next year? Maybe. Maybe not. If the air quailty at the Olympics is as bad as advertised, there could be mass pull-outs from Beijing 2009.

Yup! Look how long I've been here and check my posts count. This is one subject that I feel so strongly about.

Serenita
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:25 PM
Disgusting!

In The Zone
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:25 PM
I actually think the 99 final is better evidence for the IW crowd being racist than the 2001 fiasco. Am I the only one hearing the catcalls after Serena won?

Wow, thank you for this. Never saw it. You can definitely hear it.

It also alludes to the earlier point -- the American crowds have never favored the Williams Sisters. (Favored is too nice of a word, really).

In fact, Venus noted it at this past year's Open. "I've never had this much support, it feels great." Something along those lines. 10 years after her debut, the American crowd finally cheered for her. Watch the Mauresmo 2002 SF at the USO. Venus Williams is never cheered for and Mauresmo is basically seen as a god. You'd think they were in France.

Venus finally is a fan favorite in New York. But the crowds did not turn around for Serena in 2007 there. Maybe it has to do with their characters? Sure. But nothing erases that it took 10 years for them to finally cheer for Venus. What that means? I don't think it needs to be said.

I mean, 17 year old American beats Steffi Graf in an American final! Any other country but America they would eat that up. But Serena gets hissed. A really big precursor as to what was to come.

Serenidad.
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:26 PM
EFDHvi7moVs

I actually think the 99 final is better evidence for the IW crowd being racist than the 2001 fiasco. Am I the only one hearing the catcalls after Serena won?

Her knee was even bothering her then.

Justnotthesamerena. :sad:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:29 PM
mary pierce list her match against rittner as one of her worst when the french crowd turned agaist her and it wasn't because of her race!
It's because she was playing poorly. And the French crowd....don't even get me STARTED on them. :o

Serenidad.
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:34 PM
It's because she was playing poorly. And the French crowd....don't even get me STARTED on them. :o

Agreed. If the FO wasn't a slam, Serena and SEVERAL others would not play there.

moby
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Wow, thank you for this. Never saw it. You can definitely hear it.

It also alludes to the earlier point -- the American crowds have never favored the Williams Sisters. (Favored is too nice of a word, really).

Nah, I think NY's fine. The crowd explodes everytime Vee wins a point in the 1997 semifinal. Electric.

8PG7ORtKbeo
n2BesRcp0AU

Maybe in 2002 USO - I didn't watch the match - there's the underdog factor going for Amelie. But in the 1999 IW final, Serena was the underdog and the American. And her victory was not all that well received. Unbelieveable.

starin
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Agreed. If the FO wasn't a slam, Serena and SEVERAL others would not play there.

lol so many Americans and Sharapova would skip it.

But anyhoo good for Serena. Drama over. Serena and Venus will skip the event, get a fine and then do some promotional work for the tour, maybe play an exhibition match in CA somewhere.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:37 PM
I'd be pissed if she's not allowed to enter Miami because of this though :o
Trust me....I don't think you'd be more pissed than the organizers of the Miami tournament.

I think there'd be a bounty on Larry Scott's head if that were to happen :lol:

LDVTennis
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:41 PM
It never ceases to amuse me that this topic comes up year after year.

There's never been even the remotest possibility of them playing there ever again after what happened.

It is one big ongoing joke. At the expense of whom?

Indian Wells? Hardly, the tournament has continued to thrive without the Williams' sisters. It is the most well-attended tournament outside of the four majors.

So, if I had to answer the question, I think the joke is on the WTA.

They are the ones who concocted the new rules and schedule. Out of what is looking more and more like a vain exercise, they hoped to get more prize money from the tournaments.

Now, it seems they are about to soften the new rules because they couldn't get two player to follow them. Ah, the soap opera that is the WTA.

How do you think that makes the WTA look to the tournaments that put up more money to be part of the new WTA schedule? Not good.

You may not see it this year, but in a year or two you will see the large tournaments like Indian Wells and Miami back down from their commitments to put up equal prize money for the women. This may have been what they wanted all along. They just needed to give the WTA enough rope to hang itself. And, it looks from this report that the WTA can't wait to jump off the gallows.

LDVTennis
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:44 PM
EFDHvi7moVs

I actually think the 99 final is better evidence for the IW crowd being racist than the 2001 fiasco. Am I the only one hearing the catcalls after Serena won?


Were you there?

I was there in 1999 for this match. There were no catcalls after the match!

moby
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Were you there?

I was there in 1999 for this match. There were no catcalls after the match!No. I was going by the video; I remember being very surprised when I first saw it. Thought I heard catcalls, and it seems that at least one other poster agrees. :shrug:

starin
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:50 PM
No. I was going by the video; I remember being very surprised when I first saw it. Thought I heard catcalls, and it seems that at least one other poster agrees. :shrug:

i hear some boooing at the end of the match as well, which is weird it's not like Serena did anythign wrong except win. maybe gunther parche was at that match w/ all his friends.

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 06:52 PM
EFDHvi7moVs

I actually think the 99 final is better evidence for the IW crowd being racist than the 2001 fiasco. Am I the only one hearing the catcalls after Serena won?

Who cares about the catcalls? You have just made my day but posting this video. Great, great memories even if Steffi was on the decline by then.

Destiny
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Bloody hell

Bijoux0021
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Thanks for posting the video.

Serenita
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:14 PM
i get all emo when seeing serena and venus play when they where younger. So cute they really has changed the game of tennis.

Back on the issue, someone should sent Larry Bogus an open letter in a tennis magazine and explain him what the sisters position are. Remember like so many has done against the sisters.

Veronique
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Nah, I think NY's fine. The crowd explodes everytime Vee wins a point in the 1997 semifinal. Electric.

8PG7ORtKbeo
n2BesRcp0AU

Maybe in 2002 USO - I didn't watch the match - there's the underdog factor going for Amelie. But in the 1999 IW final, Serena was the underdog and the American. And her victory was not all that well received. Unbelieveable.

I don't know how much of this I can take. Wonderful, wonderful memories. At the time it was so tense I didn't remember the small details. She already jumped for joy as early as 1997. My 1st memory of seeing her jump was at Wimbledon 2000 final against Lindsay.

danieln1
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:29 PM
The sisters are just right doing this, watching the 99 and 01 finals Serena was totally attacked... Indian Wells crowed sucked big time, now they´re paying for what they did during those years

bandabou
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:44 PM
It is one big ongoing joke. At the expense of whom?

Indian Wells? Hardly, the tournament has continued to thrive without the Williams' sisters. It is the most well-attended tournament outside of the four majors.

So, if I had to answer the question, I think the joke is on the WTA.

They are the ones who concocted the new rules and schedule. Out of what is looking more and more like a vain exercise, they hoped to get more prize money from the tournaments.

Now, it seems they are about to soften the new rules because they couldn't get two player to follow them. Ah, the soap opera that is the WTA.

How do you think that makes the WTA look to the tournaments that put up more money to be part of the new WTA schedule? Not good.

You may not see it this year, but in a year or two you will see the large tournaments like Indian Wells and Miami back down from their commitments to put up equal prize money for the women. This may have been what they wanted all along. They just needed to give the WTA enough rope to hang itself. And, it looks from this report that the WTA can't wait to jump off the gallows.

Then so be it...'cause it's B.S. anyways that the tournaments would let their decision depend on two players not playing who nobody wanna see playing anyways no?!

sweetpeas
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Whether it's to do with race or not, if a player feels uncomfortable in a tournament due to whatever reason, they have the right not to go back there again. It's pretty simple. And they shouldn't be fined for it either.

I agree!

In The Zone
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Nah, I think NY's fine. The crowd explodes everytime Vee wins a point in the 1997 semifinal. Electric.

Maybe in 2002 USO - I didn't watch the match - there's the underdog factor going for Amelie. But in the 1999 IW final, Serena was the underdog and the American. And her victory was not all that well received. Unbelieveable.

1997 was the only time in Venus' career she was the underdog. The crowd wanted the new underdog to cause trouble.

After 1997, nothing like that for Venus. Obviously they would cheer amazing shots and points. But nothing similar to anyone else in their own nation.

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:09 PM
did you not see the way maria and chaky were treated this year in fed cup, it was a lot worse than serena was treated trust me, the crowd was behind barbed wire and booed maria, intimidated her grunts, cheered every mistake, same with chaky, marias response was to say the atmosphere charged her up and she loved it and its what she played tennis for when she was obviously rattled!
What's so sad it that I think you believe that bullshit you're spouting? :help: :smash:

sammy01
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:21 PM
What's so sad it that I think you believe that bullshit you're spouting? :help: :smash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeLeOUWCv4&feature=related

have a watch! :wavey:

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Bad reps? Do people actually give a fat rat's ass about being bad repped on a message board? Some folks need to get a life in the real world. :rolleyes:
ain't that the truth.

Good for you, Serena. I'm not related to the sisters, but I still feel sick to my stomach remembering how a 19 yr old was booed from start to finish for the decision her sister had made. That is unforgivable to me. These people didn't even let up during the trophy presentation. Even when this teenage girl tried to light up the mood and said "you guys were very hard on me". They booed yet again. They should look at that tape and feel very ashamed of themselves. A Williams should not be forced to set their foot on that court ever again.
Scott tried to call their bluff and make them play there but they still refused. His little underhanded scheme back fired and go for the sisters. They're the one's that had to endure it and anyone that claims to know what they felt is dillusional or just plain stupid.

What bothered the Williams family more than anything is that the officials at IW didn't do anything to try and calm the crowd down but let it go on even through the awards ceremony to a 19 year old child. Those people had a mob mentality and the family had the right to to afraid. Vee and Serena would quit tennis b4 bowing down to Scott's underhanded pressure about IW and I agree with them 1000%..

tell that to the people that send them :rolleyes:
It's typical of the people that talk the most shit to get their feelings hurt about a stupid rep. on a message board.

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:38 PM
mary pierce list her match against rittner as one of her worst when the french crowd turned agaist her and it wasn't because of her race!

Are you are idiot? Serena was also booed at the French and she didn't say they booed her because she was black either. Please grow the fvck up and stop trying to prove that racism doesn't exist. It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not the Williams family does and they won't be going back. End of story.

Pheobo
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:41 PM
You are probably the type of person who eats their own children.

it's so much easier than adoption.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Serena has won IW a couple of times but you won't find her champions pic anywhere on the grounds hmmmmmm.


Sammy01 does being white carry negative connotations w/the gen public?
does being gay? Muslim? Black?

Volcana
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:44 PM
It is one big ongoing joke. At the expense of whom?

Indian Wells? Hardly, the tournament has continued to thrive without the Williams' sisters. It is the most well-attended tournament outside of the four majors.But compared to Miami, it's TV ratings are pitiful. And TV is where the big revenue, not ticket sales. That's where the absence of the Williams sisters has hurt IW.

Nicolás89
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Indian Wells sucks every year anyway. :shrug: Good choice.

Craigy
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:52 PM
There should be a new section created on this board where people can talk about the Williams Sisters and Indian Wells. It never stops. :lol:

serenus_2k8
Jul 17th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Are you are idiot? Serena was also booed at the French and she didn't say they booed her because she was black either. Please grow the fvck up and stop trying to prove that racism doesn't exist. It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not the Williams family does and they won't be going back. End of story.

:lol: Finally!!!

Sammy is the one of the biggest idiots I've seen in a long time. Shes just determined to try and undermine the WS decision to not play and imply they are OTT when the treatment of Serena was appauling.

The WTA shouldn't force either WS to play. Its disgusting that the tour would even try.

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 09:06 PM
OH, I get it. So you're saying you BASICALLY agree with what she said, you just wanted to word it better.
You should be Serena's P.R. director. Too bad you're 7 years late. The "disappointed crowd" at Indian Wells (who had a day to cool off AND free tickets to a Tier I FINAL) could have used someone with your gift of wordcraft.

:rolleyes:
:lol::lol::lol:

:yeah: Serena

i remember watching the final being a big fan of Kim, but the crowd was just horrible!
i felt really bad for Serena for something which definitely wasn't her fault :shrug:

and winning that match under those circumstances shows you how tough she is!

if i was Serena, i would never play IW again!
Thank you

Dodoboy.
Jul 17th, 2008, 09:08 PM
There should be a new section created on this board where people can talk about the Williams Sisters and Indian Wells. It never stops. :lol:

I don't even get a chance to read what they are talking about because as soon as the thread is open 100 replies and i'll be damned if i read that!

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 09:18 PM
thats the whole thing, venus left and let lil sister deal with the unhappy people that felt robbed of a match, if the crowds at IW were so racist, why did we hear nothing about this in their earlier rounds or qtr finals?
serena didn't get booed in any of her other matches which tells me it was down to the situation not there hate for her!
:eek:


LOL!!!!! Somebody is daring you to say this shit! Admit it. When did Venus "leave" Serena? I'm seriously beginning to think you never saw the match nor did you know about the semi. You've been (mis)informed by hearsay.

Since it seems you have an inside track (for some reason), give us more things that motivate racists.
Hopefully :lol:

Ok...that was a Fed Cup AWAY match. :shrug: That's fair.


Now explain that kind of behavior (CONSTANT boos from WALK-OUT to TROPHY CEREMONY) IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY! IN THE STATE YOU'RE FROM!?!?

Seriously, come on. In the words of:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/derby/content/images/2005/06/21/tennis_mcenroe_argues_body_203x152.jpg
You CANNOT be serious!
Good one


EFDHvi7moVs

I actually think the 99 final is better evidence for the IW crowd being racist than the 2001 fiasco. Am I the only one hearing the catcalls after Serena won?
Thanks for the memories. She was so excited.

Nicolás89
Jul 17th, 2008, 09:26 PM
thats the whole thing, venus left and let lil sister deal with the unhappy people that felt robbed of a match, if the crowds at IW were so racist, why did we hear nothing about this in their earlier rounds or qtr finals?
serena didn't get booed in any of her other matches which tells me it was down to the situation not there hate for her!

So what? Apparently, they did call her racial names. That still is racism! The context doen't matter.

Willam
Jul 17th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Great from her to stick to her veelivings :p

jazar
Jul 17th, 2008, 09:40 PM
what a load of bull. they say they'll suspend players for missing the tournaments, then they go and say this. its hardly any sort of punishment

Dawson.
Jul 17th, 2008, 10:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeLeOUWCv4&feature=related

have a watch! :wavey:

oh so thats why the tier 4 tournament in tel aviv has been cancelled for the past few years :lol:

Lindsayfan32
Jul 17th, 2008, 10:34 PM
This soft. That promotional part of the rule was put in so there would be no ugly incident with the Williams sisters. The incident should never have happened but they really need to get over it. it was eight years ago next year. They aren't going to go the tournament and do promotional stuff. So just fine them and suspend them and be done with it. What is good for the rest of the tour is good enough for the Williams sister. :fiery:

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 10:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeLeOUWCv4&feature=related

have a watch! :wavey:
Yep, you've confirmed it, you're an idiot. What the hell does that video have to do with IW? :lol:

mykarma
Jul 17th, 2008, 10:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeLeOUWCv4&feature=related

have a watch! :wavey:

This soft. That promotional part of the rule was put in so there would be no ugly incident with the Williams sisters. The incident should never have happened but they really need to get over it. it was eight years ago next year. They aren't going to go the tournament and do promotional stuff. So just fine them and suspend them and be done with it. What is good for the rest of the tour is good enough for the Williams sister. :fiery:
They have gotten over it. It's Scott and IW that hasn't. Scott tried to make some underhanded bullshit rule esp. to make the sisters play there and the result is the same. :shrug:

VishaalMaria
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:08 PM
This soft. That promotional part of the rule was put in so there would be no ugly incident with the Williams sisters. The incident should never have happened but they really need to get over it. it was eight years ago next year. They aren't going to go the tournament and do promotional stuff. So just fine them and suspend them and be done with it. What is good for the rest of the tour is good enough for the Williams sister. :fiery:

Why did you put the ":fiery:" emoticon? Don't throw you're attitude around when you obviously havent read the articles or the 100000000000000000 others that are published by the media when they talk about Indian Wells and the William Sisters. Venus and Serena have constantly said "We wont play there again" and in this instance Serena is willing to pay the fine she hasnt kicked up a fuss about the new rule thats going to be enforced in 2009.

They are over it, they dont actively bring it up, they just answer the same old question that's been asked of them since 2001 "Will you play at Indian Well?"

Everytime the words "Indian Wells" are mentioned, the words "Willaims Sisters" are NEVER far behind. So who needs to get over it? The media.

Matt01
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:26 PM
So what? Apparently, they did call her racial names. That still is racism! The context doen't matter.


"Apparently" is the key word here. Until we don't know for sure what exactly was said by whom, there should be no accusations of racism.

StarDuvallGrant
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Good on Serena for standing firm. She should never have had to experience such a public hurt and while it's unfortunate and in the past, she has decided not to participate and this with the consequences fully in mind. I respect and support her decision considering the events happened to her and she dealt with it very admirably.

LDVTennis
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:31 PM
But compared to Miami, it's TV ratings are pitiful. And TV is where the big revenue, not ticket sales. That's where the absence of the Williams sisters has hurt IW.

Keep telling yourself that Volcana, it is not true.

TV ratings mean nothing to tennis tournaments because outside of the four majors there is no market for broadcast rights to a tournament.

drake3781
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Richard does have a tendency to exaggerate. I think the Sisters need to get over it. This happened years ago, and they were part of the problem. I am sure they would be well received if they were to compete now. If they refuse to compete, they should suffer whatever punishment the tour calls for. They are not above the Tour whatever they, or their fans, think.

Succintly said, and ita.

eugreene2
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:38 PM
I say this everytime this topic comes up ... Venus Williams is an ambassador for the WTA. She was in the stands with her dad. if Venus refuses to return then I believe something racist happened or was said because she has been a woman of integrity and character for her profession.

LDVTennis
Jul 17th, 2008, 11:41 PM
Then so be it...'cause it's B.S. anyways that the tournaments would let their decision depend on two players not playing who nobody wanna see playing anyways no?!

Hey, if you were to poll the majority of season ticket holders at Indian Well, the consensus would probably be that they are there primarily to watch the men's tennis.

So, as long as Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic show up, as they are required by the ATP, all is well.

That is why the men deserve the prize money they will be getting in 2009 and the women don't.

Melly Flew Us
Jul 18th, 2008, 12:03 AM
.... im not saying she should play i just didn't like the reasoning!
oh well. you'll get over it.

Melly Flew Us
Jul 18th, 2008, 12:10 AM
Richard does have a tendency to exaggerate. I think the Sisters need to get over it. This happened years ago, and they were part of the problem. I am sure they would be well received if they were to compete now. If they refuse to compete, they should suffer whatever punishment the tour calls for. They are not above the Tour whatever they, or their fans, think.
they don't have to come to terms with the incident at all. they are perfectly entitled to do as they please. and i am sure that you will be pleased when the details of fines are released next spring.

here's hoping that it is many thousands, that it irks them even more and provokes them into swapping it for suspension from two big tournments on the tour and focus on winning australia, paris and new york.

lizchris
Jul 18th, 2008, 12:34 AM
Are we still talking about this incident?

Serena said she wasn't playing and that is it. It seems to me that people who don't like the sisters want to see them play at IW more than their fans do.

atptour03
Jul 18th, 2008, 12:48 AM
I don't get why so much attention is given to this. Serena and Venus have made it clear they aren't playing. The event goes on fine and the Williams sisters (rightfully) stick by their decision. End of.

The reason so much attention is paid to this issue is because of the fact that two of the biggest stars in the game, refuse to play a major event. I would think it would be weird for the tournament to have Venus and Serena doing promotional obligations for the tournament, and possibly saying negative things about it. It would be like "shooting themselves in the foot."

Noctis
Jul 18th, 2008, 12:52 AM
She Aint going back END OFF!!!!

Wolverines08
Jul 18th, 2008, 12:53 AM
Lol at Ree and Vee making some people so angry.

azinna
Jul 18th, 2008, 01:02 AM
There should be a new section created on this board where people can talk about the Williams Sisters and Indian Wells. It never stops. :lol:

I don't even get a chance to read what they are talking about because as soon as the thread is open 100 replies and i'll be damned if i read that!

Ditto to both.

Meanwhile, my two cents: neither sister will attend IW. Neither will get fined or suspended. Both will do extra promotional work for the WTA tour, but not IW specifically. Whether or not racism was at play -- (hard to imagine a 19yo Evert or Capriati getting booed from walk-on to trophy ceremony for her sister's withdrawal in the semis) -- the scene and treatment by crowd and tournament was bad enough for the sisters to decide not to return and not be punished for that.

Folks saying, "rules are rules and they should apply to everyone" are being obtuse. This rule is being conjured up; it isn't natural to tennis or to sporting tours. It's a bit draconian, and so its flaw is merely being revealed by the Williams-IW issue.

hablo
Jul 18th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Good that Serena & Venus are sticking to their principles.

Maybe it's time other people get over the fact that they never will play there again. :shrug:

Volcana
Jul 18th, 2008, 03:12 AM
Keep telling yourself that Volcana, it is not true.

TV ratings mean nothing to tennis tournaments because outside of the four majors there is no market for broadcast rights to a tournament.Of course there's a market. That's why so tournaments are televised and some aren't. Because there's money in it. Indian Wells does get paid a certain amount for the right to televise that tournament. So does Miami. The amount whatever network will pay, be that NBC, ESPN, The Tennis Channel or whatever, is based on what they can charge for commercials. What it can charge for commercials is based on TV ratings. Miami gets better ratings because Miami usually has more popular players in the later rounds, so more people watch.

mal
Jul 18th, 2008, 03:19 AM
here's hoping that it is many thousands, that it irks them even more and provokes them into swapping it for suspension from two big tournments on the tour and focus on winning australia, paris and new york.

I don't think they will.
They have enough street cred to set up a whole new series of tennis in Africa and take the game to new levels. It has always been popular in South Africa, where a lot of Californians have traditionally spent the winter, and after all WTA don't own the game.

Prove they can win Australia, Paris and New York? Now theres a challenge too good to turn down.
Why not challenge them to climb Mt Everest single handed while you're at it? :lol:

Lulu.
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:07 AM
Good. I'm glad that no matter what the WTA says, Serena does what Serena wants. :lol:

DimaDinosaur
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:17 AM
I'm proud of Serena and her statements. I'm glad someone is standing up for the black community and minority in tennis and sports in general.



LOL, if Serena is forced to go to Indian Wells to promote, I would love to hear what blunt things she would say

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:24 AM
3 words.... FUCK INDIAN WELLS....I think its cute how they are tryign to force my girls to play at this tournament by tryign to fine them...i'm sorry...but if i was treated that way, I woulnd't step a foot back in that tournament..and I hope Venus and Serena stick to their guns and NEVER return there. If anything...they'ed better just leave them alone...because right now...Venus and Serena are about the only thing happening for tennis in MY opinion.

Optima
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:26 AM
I like that Serena and Venus stick to their words, however I wish they would play; progress is about forgiving but not forgetting. It happened ages ago, and I think they would be well received there if they decided to play again (which, they won't.)

Volcana
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:51 AM
I like that Serena and Venus stick to their words, however I wish they would play; progress is about forgiving but not forgetting. It happened ages ago, and I think they would be well received there if they decided to play again (which, they won't.)If the rxn of the fanbase wasn't qite so visceral, it's possible, albeit unlikely, that they might have played at IW by now. People change thier minds all the time. But once it's evident that a decision holds major meaning to a lot of people, this becomes less likely.

Seyz
Jul 18th, 2008, 06:08 AM
I mean their reasoning for not playing is personal, and if I were put in their shoes , I would definitely not play at IW ever again. There's something to be said of pride, and going back although can be seen as "forgiving", can also be seen as condoning that type of behavior from such a vile crowd. So, I say No, don't go back. If something like that happened to me, I would be three times as vengeful.

bandabou
Jul 18th, 2008, 07:50 AM
Hey, if you were to poll the majority of season ticket holders at Indian Well, the consensus would probably be that they are there primarily to watch the men's tennis.

So, as long as Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic show up, as they are required by the ATP, all is well.

That is why the men deserve the prize money they will be getting in 2009 and the women don't.

And the same held true when Steffi was playing as well, sooo...

sipnsurfMurph
Jul 18th, 2008, 08:19 AM
"I would be more than happy to go and tell them how I really feel." - Serena Willians.

Thats signature material stuff!:lol:

sipnsurfMurph
Jul 18th, 2008, 08:24 AM
BTW, whats within a 150 mile radius of IW? And wouldn't doing any IW mandated promo stink?

Pony up the $'s seems the best choice.

mykarma
Jul 18th, 2008, 02:11 PM
"Apparently" is the key word here. Until we don't know for sure what exactly was said by whom, there should be no accusations of racism.
This is not a court of law and the Williams family said they were called racist names. Non of the officials or Scott has denied their allegations so what's your beef. What we all know is that you're never believe it just because it's the Williams family. They said they weren't playing there in 2001 and haven't changed their minds since then. Ask yourself why do they feel so strongly about not playing in this particular tournament and not others. Serena was booed at the French, it hurt her feelings but she's continued to play there.

Admit it, you just hate the Williams family and will look for anything to try and degrade them but they continue to show what stand up young ladies they are. They are always trying to help the disadvantaged. It's already been reported that Serena will build a school in Senegal while it was just reported that Venus just donated shoes to young kids in a school in India. The Williams family raised their daughters correctly and to be strong, wonderful, compassionate, and caring young ladies so just suck it up. They're not going to be bullied into anything they believe is unjust or wrong.

Pureracket
Jul 18th, 2008, 02:16 PM
This is not a court of law and the Williams family said they were called racist names. Non of the officials or Scott has denied their allegations so what's your beef. What we all know is that you're never believe it just because it's the Williams family. They said they weren't playing there in 2001 and haven't changed their minds since then. Ask yourself why do they feel so strongly about not playing in this particular tournament and not others. Serena was booed at the French, it hurt her feelings but she's continued to play there.

Admit it, you just hate the Williams family and will look for anything to try and degrade them but they continue to show what stand up young ladies they are. They are always trying to help the disadvantaged. It's already been reported that Serena will build a school in Senegal while it was just reported that Venus just donated shoes to young kids in a school in India. The Williams family raised their daughters correctly and to be strong, wonderful, compassionate, and caring young ladies so just suck it up. They're not going to be bullied into anything they believe is unjust or wrong.:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship :

Sharapowerr
Jul 18th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Richard Williams is also a racist....

,"Well, I’m black and I’m prejudiced, very prejudiced. People are prejudiced in tennis. I don’t think Venus or Serena was ever accepted by tennis. They never will be. But if you get some little white no-good trasher in America like Tracy Austin or Chris Evert, who cannot hit the ball, they (the media) will claim this is great,” he said.

Venus & Serena have enjoyed extreme acceptance in spite of their and their father's classless behavior and comments.

Actually i don t get why people/media let him even speak..

Miss Amor
Jul 18th, 2008, 03:12 PM
Venus & Serena have enjoyed extreme acceptance in spite of their and their father's classless behavior and comments.

Actually i don t get why people/media let him even speak..

you look bitchy..are you having your woman times?

mirzalover
Jul 18th, 2008, 03:14 PM
^^^^:lol:

DA FOREHAND
Jul 18th, 2008, 03:29 PM
I like that Serena and Venus stick to their words, however I wish they would play; progress is about forgiving but not forgetting. It happened ages ago, and I think they would be well received there if they decided to play again (which, they won't.)

really? what makes you "think" they will be well recieved? Is it the fact that Serena Williams is a two time champion at this event, but you won't find her picture anywhere among the former champions pics? :help::wavey:

I LOVE THE FACT THAT SO MANY BUCKRAH'S ARE UPSET AT THEM NOT PLAYING. That validates to me that they are doing the right thing.

Optima
Jul 18th, 2008, 03:48 PM
really? what makes you "think" they will be well recieved? Is it the fact that Serena Williams is a two time champion at this event, but you won't find her picture anywhere among the former champions pics? :help::wavey:

I LOVE THE FACT THAT SO MANY BUCKRAH'S ARE UPSET AT THEM NOT PLAYING. That validates to me that they are doing the right thing.

:lol: I'm not upset they're not playing. They do whatever they want, go figure, good for them. Who says they won't? Things change, things evolve, and people make stupid ass mistakes. Maybe I'm just more forgiving, but sometimes you have to look past what stupid ignorant people do. I'm sure there are great people who live in the area who would love to see them back.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 18th, 2008, 04:08 PM
"What we all know is that you're never believe it just because it's the Williams family.

That is the crux of this entire situation. for some reason everyone else is given the benifit of the doubt, EXCEPT when it comes to the Williams Sisters. It's hard not to believe race has something to do with that.

serenus_2k8
Jul 18th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Richard Williams is also a racist....

,"Well, I’m black and I’m prejudiced, very prejudiced. People are prejudiced in tennis. I don’t think Venus or Serena was ever accepted by tennis. They never will be. But if you get some little white no-good trasher in America like Tracy Austin or Chris Evert, who cannot hit the ball, they (the media) will claim this is great,” he said.

Venus & Serena have enjoyed extreme acceptance in spite of their and their father's classless behavior and comments.

Actually i don t get why people/media let him even speak..


Hes the father of the two best tennis players of their generation who taught them how to play after he taught the game to himself.

I think his opinion is worth hearing, more so than yours :)

Sharapowerr
Jul 18th, 2008, 04:49 PM
Hes the father of the two best tennis players of their generation who taught them how to play after he taught the game to himself.

I think his opinion is worth hearing, more so than yours :)

I don t hate the WS or anything and btw i m a guy , i only think that the father is crossing the line with his comments...he also said this once:

“The White man hated me all my life and I hate him" That’s no secret.”

The father is confusing his perception of racism with his soutr personal behaviour.. includes his own racism, I think there s nothing in the world that would make this man happy... He s all the time busy with racism , The medical term for this is paranoid.

Volcana
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:01 PM
It might be more clear not to view this as a punishment, but rather a simple set of choices for all players. Players are needed at big events to guarantee money from invetors. 'Investors' in this case, meaning tournament sponsors and TV advertisers. (It obviously does NOT mean ticket sales, since, as has been pointed out, Indian Wells get tremendous ticket sales. It's the other revenue streams where they suffer.) This is what is meant by players 'supporting the tour'. If a player doesn't want to play a mandatory event, they can do promotional work, give the tour money, or not play in subsequent tour events. The players have a lot, though not total, control over which option comes to pass.


But womens' tennis (maybe men's too) suffers from an unusual problem. Some of their players draw vastly higher TV ratings than others. (The only other sport where the disparity is as high is men's golf. Tiger Woods plays, TV ratings double.) Unfortuantely, this has led the WTA into the sticky realm of 'givebacks'. Well, not the WTA per se, but rather whoever is televising them. Advertisers demand a portion of their money back if certain players aren't present in the later rounds. So if the WTA suspends Sharapova, or Venus, or Serena, they are actually costing the tournaments those players are suspended from far more than they are costing those players.


Here's a bet that Serena's 'promotional work' for Indian Wells is goingto involve giving clinics to poor kids a hundred miles. And the Indian Wells brand will NOT be prominently featured.

Matt01
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:05 PM
This is not a court of law and the Williams family said they were called racist names. Non of the officials or Scott has denied their allegations so what's your beef. What we all know is that you're never believe it just because it's the Williams family. They said they weren't playing there in 2001 and haven't changed their minds since then. Ask yourself why do they feel so strongly about not playing in this particular tournament and not others. Serena was booed at the French, it hurt her feelings but she's continued to play there.

Admit it, you just hate the Williams family and will look for anything to try and degrade them but they continue to show what stand up young ladies they are. They are always trying to help the disadvantaged. It's already been reported that Serena will build a school in Senegal while it was just reported that Venus just donated shoes to young kids in a school in India. The Williams family raised their daughters correctly and to be strong, wonderful, compassionate, and caring young ladies so just suck it up. They're not going to be bullied into anything they believe is unjust or wrong.


I think that you need some serious help :tape:

Yes, I've criticised the WS in the past and I often have a different opinion than their crazy fans, but that doesn't mean that I hate the whole family :lol:

Pureracket
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:10 PM
I think that you need some serious help :tape:

Yes, I've criticised the WS in the past and I often have a different opinion than their crazy fans, but that doesn't mean that I hate the whole family :lol:You're NOT crazy, right?

serenus_2k8
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:11 PM
I think that you need some serious help :tape:

Yes, I've criticised the WS in the past and I often have a different opinion than their crazy fans, but that doesn't mean that I hate the whole family :lol:

:haha:

Understatement of the century. Its a well known fact that you appear in virtually all of the WS threads to knock the family and try and automatically adopt the opposite opinion to WS fans because you love the attention. :help:

I'm sure you really love the Williams family :rolleyes:

Sharapowerr
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:14 PM
We should go for a time when colour no longer figures in anything, just Let s all trie and look past William’s paranoid behaviour and enjoy multiculturalism:)

Pureracket
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:15 PM
We should go for a time when colour no longer figures in anything, just Let s all trie and look past William’s paranoid behaviour and enjoy multiculturalism:):lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Matt01
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:16 PM
Understatement of the century. Its a well known fact that you appear in virtually all of the WS threads to knock the family and try and automatically adopt the opposite opinion to WS fans because you love the attention. :help:


I'm buildig my opinion based on different things. Thank you very much. :rolleyes:

Pureracket
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:19 PM
I'm buildig my opinion based on different things. Thank you very much. :rolleyes:
They are just never positive about the Williams family, right?

drake3781
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:23 PM
........... It's already been reported that Serena will build a school in Senegal.........



Here is where we get to the problem with people not questioning what they read. Other than in Serena's own blog, where has it been "reported" that Serena will build a school in Senegal? Can I please have one link to a reputable news source? I've asked before and not received.


The problem is that when people believe things that cannot be fact-checked, then use them as basis for making other decisions and judgments, their thinking becomes flawed. You always want to be sure to have a sound basis for decision making, even when you are thinking about a sports "hero" you may have.


I hope Serena is building a school in Senegal - but let's first get some verification and status information before we use that so-called "report" to support other opinions. This post is not about Serena per se, but about using critical thinking in understanding and using information.


As for Indian Wells, she will not go and that is her right. While I think exceptions could have been made, it's better overall that they weren't so as not to establish a precedent that the rules can be broken.

drake3781
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:25 PM
We should go for a time when colour no longer figures in anything, just Let s all trie and look past William’s paranoid behaviour and enjoy multiculturalism:)

I cannot rep anymore, but I wanted to compliment you on your beautiful post. :hug:

Pureracket
Jul 18th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Here is where we get to the problem with people not questioning what they read. Other than in Serena's own blog, where has it been "reported" that Serena will build a school in Senegal? Can I please have one link to a reputable news source? I've asked before and not received.


The problem is that when people believe things that cannot be fact-checked, then use them as basis for making other decisions and judgments, their thinking becomes flawed. You always want to be sure to have a sound basis for decision making, even when you are thinking about a sports "hero" you may have.


I hope Serena is building a school in Senegal - but let's first get some verification and status information before we use that so-called "report" to support other opinions. This post is not about Serena per se, but about using critical thinking in understanding and using information.


As for Indian Wells, she will not go and that is her right. While I think exceptions could have been made, it's better overall that they weren't so as not to establish a precedent that the rules can be broken.It's from Serena's blog. What other info do you need? You're running this little scrutiny thing like you have secret IRS info or something. Were you planning to donate to the school?

Weird how I've never seen you fact check on anybody else's charitable intentions. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Comedy!