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spiceboy
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:00 AM
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.2392863.0.tennis_star_laura_robson_got _uk_passport_four_months_ago.php

Tennis star Laura Robson got UK passport four months ago

The new hopeful for British tennis has only had a UK passport for four months, it emerged today.

Laura Robson, 14, who won the Wimbledon girls' title this year, played all her matches for her native Australia until February.

Laura, who now lives close to the All England Club in Wimbledon, came to this country at the age of six.

Her father, Andrew Robson, obtained his British passport in February, which enabled Laura to apply for UK citizenship.

Now both she had her dad hold dual British and Australian nationality, while her mother, Kathy, still travels using an Australian passport, the Mail on Sunday reported.

Left-handed Laura won the final of the girls' competition last weekend in a 6-3, 3-6, 6-1 match.

She was instantly hailed a national hero as the first British winner of the title since Annabel Croft's victory 24 years ago.

She holds four other junior tennis titles as an Australian.

Laura is tipped to earn more than £10million from tennis and sportswear endorsements.

daniel122292
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:02 AM
wow I wonder if that effects any of her British fans.

Mattographer
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:15 AM
I already know that :lol:

V-MAC
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:18 AM
Yeah I remember Pat Cash claiming her as one of their own on the BBC during Wimbledon :lol:

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:41 AM
£10m! Is she single? :devil: that's a lot of clothes

Josh.
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:43 AM
Known fact. She's been asked about it 100 times and she states she doesn't feel Australian at all.

Cp6uja
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:49 AM
5 months ago Aussies have golden opportunity to acquire 15y young 25y old Anastasia Rodionova which is just perfect for national hero or role model and also supertalented:p Jarmila Gajdosova... so who realy cares about some 14 old brat?

:devil:

*hingis_forever*
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:00 AM
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/topstories/display.var.2392863.0.tennis_star_laura_robson_got _uk_passport_four_months_ago.php

Tennis star Laura Robson got UK passport four months ago

The new hopeful for British tennis has only had a UK passport for four months, it emerged today.

Laura Robson, 14, who won the Wimbledon girls' title this year, played all her matches for her native Australia until February.

Laura, who now lives close to the All England Club in Wimbledon, came to this country at the age of six.

Her father, Andrew Robson, obtained his British passport in February, which enabled Laura to apply for UK citizenship.

Now both she had her dad hold dual British and Australian nationality, while her mother, Kathy, still travels using an Australian passport, the Mail on Sunday reported.

Left-handed Laura won the final of the girls' competition last weekend in a 6-3, 3-6, 6-1 match.

She was instantly hailed a national hero as the first British winner of the title since Annabel Croft's victory 24 years ago.

She holds four other junior tennis titles as an Australian.

Laura is tipped to earn more than £10million from tennis and sportswear endorsements.
I thing they got that wrong. She represented Australia a long time ago. Every tournament I've seen her name in, she has had GBR next to her name.

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:00 AM
5 months ago Aussies have golden opportunity to acquire 15y young 25y old Anastasia Rodionova which is just perfect for national hero or role model and also supertalented:p Jarmila Gajdosova... so who realy cares about some 14 old brat?
:devil:

I do. As do millions of people in England:rolleyes:

That's the 1st post of yours I havent liked

RenaSlam.
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:02 AM
Why is she considered a "star" already?

Sean.
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:05 AM
Why is she considered a "star" already?

Because English people have a habit of dressing up the slighest bit of telent. ONly way we have any hope:shrug:

DutchieGirl
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:07 AM
:shrug: She's been living in London since she was 6 - meh. Whatever. If she feels British, then fine. :)

Cp6uja
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:43 AM
I do. As do millions of people in England:rolleyes:

That's the 1st post of yours I havent liked:shrug: I just present in that post oppinion of Tennis Australia officials (and how they thinking) 5 months ago... not my personal oppinion.






:lol: :lol: :lol:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:47 AM
If she wins Grand Slam tournaments in the future , she is aussie for sure :rocker2:

DutchieGirl
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:49 AM
If she wins Grand Slam tournaments in the future , she is aussie for sure :rocker2:
:scratch: Why? She can be whatever she wants to be. If she wants to be British, and is now a British citizen, then she is. I have the same as her - I'm Aussie, but I have dual citizenship, the same as her. I've lived in Australia my whole life, so I'm Aussie. She has been living in England most of her life. If she feels British, then she is. :)

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:54 AM
:scratch: Why? :)

Aussies have talent for this sport . So , Aussie and Grand Slam Champion in the same sentence make sense for me

backslapu
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:59 AM
I guess the brits will take anything. They deemed her next big thing and she JUST BECAME A CITIZEN!!!! COME ON.!!

*hingis_forever*
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:31 AM
I guess the brits will take anything. They deemed her next big thing and she JUST BECAME A CITIZEN!!!! COME ON.!!
She didn't "just" become a citizen. This article is wrong! She's been representing Britain for as long as I can rememeber.

DutchieGirl
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:32 AM
She didn't "just" become a citizen. This article is wrong! She's been representing Britain for as long as I can rememeber.
But do you HAVE to be a citizen to represent a country? I mean if you are living there, can you represent them without being a technical citizen? I'm not sure...just a thought though.

DutchieGirl
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:34 AM
Aussies have talent for this sport . So , Aussie and Grand Slam Champion in the same sentence make sense for me

What's that got to do with anything? I am Aussie - we have a talent for alot of sports. We are a good sporting nation - doesn't mean everyone who lived in Oz at one stage is now Aussie just becasuse we are good at sport. ;)

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:36 AM
I guess the brits will take anything. They deemed her next big thing and she JUST BECAME A CITIZEN!!!! COME ON.!!

Have you heard her accent? It's pretty obvious she's been living in the UK for quite some time now.

aussie_fan
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:36 AM
She's been living there since she's six, she has the english accent, and she would of spent probably most of her training and development in Britain so doesn't bother me really, she's British, no doubt about it.

DutchieGirl
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:43 AM
She's been living there since she's six, she has the english accent, and she would of spent probably most of her training and development in Britain so doesn't bother me really, she's British, no doubt about it.
And she had quite a bit of British support at Roehampton. ;)

LudwigDvorak
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:45 AM
spiceboy and his bombshell. I love him. :lol:

Keep it up.

Wintermute
Jul 16th, 2008, 04:40 AM
This feels like a newspaper trying to make something out of a non-story. I think most people who were following Laura were aware of her Aussie roots. But if you hear her speak she sounds English and she also said she felt British when asked that question directly in an interview.
What does it matter anyway? She was definitely representing Britain when she won Wimbledon.

bad_angel_109
Jul 16th, 2008, 04:49 AM
5 months ago Aussies have golden opportunity to acquire 15y young 25y old Anastasia Rodionova which is just perfect for national hero or role model and also supertalented:p Jarmila Gajdosova... so who realy cares about some 14 old brat?

:devil::lol: she was still an aussie in Jan. haha Wow that's news to me. To me she's an Aussie, even if she's now got a British passport as well. She looks aussie and has a tan (which is sorta surprising since there's barely any sun in the UK) :p

Huntress55
Jul 16th, 2008, 04:57 AM
Yeah I knew that, alot of that was mentioned.
But shes been over there forever, so if she feels British then yeah, good on her :D

gaynor
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:43 AM
I hope you all realise this story is a load of crap, just typical British tennis journilists who think they know the game because they watched a bit of Wimbledon last week. It is not a BOMBSHELL!, she has been representing Britain for many years.

bad_angel_109
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:10 AM
I hope you all realise this story is a load of crap, just typical British tennis journilists who think they know the game because they watched a bit of Wimbledon last week. It is not a BOMBSHELL!, she has been representing Britain for many years.That may be true but she's still an aussie in my eyes as she was born here and went to school and eveything here until she was 6 yrs old. :p

moby
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:29 AM
That may be true but she's still an aussie in my eyes as she was born here and went to school and eveything here until she was 6 yrs old. :pNot true. She was born in Australia but she only lived there for the first 18 months of her life.

Then she came to Singapore and lived here till she was 6 (according to wiki)

Australia - 1.5 years
Singapore - 4.5 years
Britain - 8 years and counting

If the Australians are claiming Laura, the Singaporeans can too. :p

nouf
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:30 AM
That may be true but she's still an aussie in my eyes as she was born here and went to school and eveything here until she was 6 yrs old. :p


i talk with laura and i think u didn't know her very well! :tape:
she was reading article then said to me that

Lauraaa dit :
its so bad
Lauraaa dit :
they dont know anything
Lauraaa dit :
i played all my tournaments for england
Lauraaa dit :
i left australia when i was 18 months old

this bombshell is a shitshell :rolleyes:

azza
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:44 AM
WHO CARES. k

Hachiko
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Bombshell? I thought this was common knowledge.

Libertango
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:56 AM
OMG why would you move from Australia to England?!?! It's ALWAYS the other way round! :p

jokeys, Laura is a Brit, no question! :)

Golovinjured.
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:56 AM
But do you HAVE to be a citizen to represent a country? I mean if you are living there, can you represent them without being a technical citizen? I'm not sure...just a thought though.

:silly:


See Rodionova/Gajdosova

:help:

lympyisthebest
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:59 AM
I don't see why this is even an issue. I have triple citizenship, but i have been living in Australia for 15 years out of the 17 years i've been alive, and i couldn't imagine myself representing any country other than Australia.

young_gunner913
Jul 16th, 2008, 08:01 AM
And when she doesn't live up to the hype, no country will want her. :lol:

kinseh
Jul 16th, 2008, 09:05 AM
The girl can be whatever she wants to be. In my opinion, she's British. :)

bad_angel_109
Jul 16th, 2008, 09:08 AM
i talk with laura and i think u didn't know her very well! :tape:
she was reading article then said to me that

Lauraaa dit :
its so bad
Lauraaa dit :
they dont know anything
Lauraaa dit :
i played all my tournaments for england
Lauraaa dit :
i left australia when i was 18 months old

this bombshell is a shitshell :rolleyes:I actually don't know Laura at all, never said I did. All I said was that I consider Laura an Australian, even if she now lives in England and deemed a Brit. Through my eyes anyone who's born here in Australia will always be an Aussie, no matter where they are, where the live in the world, etc.

Even if they take up citizenship in another country as Laura has. Plus she has an Australian passport. :p

OMG why would you move from Australia to England?!?! It's ALWAYS the other way round! :pLmao, that's SOOO true!

And when she doesn't live up to the hype, no country will want her. :lol::lol:

47eggs
Jul 16th, 2008, 09:12 AM
She's been living there since she's six, she has the english accent, and she would of spent probably most of her training and development in Britain so doesn't bother me really, she's British, no doubt about it.

Excactly right.

aussie_fan
Jul 16th, 2008, 09:44 AM
I actually don't know Laura at all, never said I did. All I said was that I consider Laura an Australian, even if she now lives in England and deemed a Brit. Through my eyes anyone who's born here in Australia will always be an Aussie, no matter where they are, where the live in the world, etc.

Even if they take up citizenship in another country as Laura has. Plus she has an Australian passport. :p



Doesn't work like that. Let me use a silly hypotheical, say if someone was born in New Zealand and then after just one month they decide to move to Australia for whatever is the reason is. This child will grow up and go through life's exprenices in Australia, get all the training and development through Australian coaches and facilities. You think that they should represent New Zealand because they lived in that country for one month when they don't even remember, no that's silly. They would of feel Australian not an New Zealander. You think it's fair for all the development that would of been put in by australian coaches that it's fair?

Same goes here, Britain have helped through her young tennis career so far, she has live most of her life in Britain, doesn't matter if she lives the first 18 months of her life in Australia, she wouldn't remember it and would remember all her experiences in Britain, she defiantely would feel British.

Please don't try and accept her as one of ours, she's not. I hate it when I hear this talk about a couple of Aussies who have been training her as juniors suddenly switch countries because they have a dual citzenship because their parents lived there or they moved out when they were 2, after all the training and development they have been given and they lived here, then they switch countries like it's moving to another football club. It's a joke.

This thread is just Birtish newspapers trying to make up a story from nothing. Sadly, this is what this poor girl is going to have to deal with from now on.

bad_angel_109
Jul 16th, 2008, 09:50 AM
^ I would consider them an Aussie. Even tho they were born in NZ. Its just imo, I still see Luara as an Aussie.

aussie_fan
Jul 16th, 2008, 10:09 AM
^ I would consider them an Aussie. Even tho they were born in NZ. Its just imo, I still see Luara as an Aussie.

But you just agreed with me, 1 month, 18 month, there is no difference, the kid is not going to remember. Laura didn't sepnd her first 18 months of her life training for her tennis, that's impossible.

Caz
Jul 16th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I read in a newspaper during Wimbledon that she was born in Australia and both her parents were Australian, so I had been wondering how she was British and representing the UK, (as far as I understand it, you either have to have been born in the UK or have a British parent to be a British citizen without having lived for the required number of years in the UK), now I understand. I guess having grown up in the UK and having undertaken most of her training here, it makes perfect sense for her to have dual nationality ... and if she wants to represent us, that's fine by me!!! ;):D

Freakan
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Not true. She's always been playing for GBR in international tournaments.

Ksenia.
Jul 16th, 2008, 12:38 PM
I think Laura's decision is clear for people who were born and raised in (or moved at young age to) a country they don't ethnically belong to and not really understandable for those who have been living their lives in a country their ancestors come from.
For example, my parents are Russian, Russian is my native language, I am a citizen of Russia (I'll be able to change my citizenship to Estonian only when I turn 18) but I was born in Estonia and if I was an athlete I would definitely want to represent Estonia because I don't feel any kind of connection to Russia, if I had some kind of international success in sports it would be merit of Estonian facilities :shrug:

Shepster
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:19 PM
Why is she considered a "star" already?
Because her girls final got more viewers in Britain than the womens final.

bad_angel_109
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:23 PM
But you just agreed with me, 1 month, 18 month, there is no difference, the kid is not going to remember. Laura didn't sepnd her first 18 months of her life training for her tennis, that's impossible.I only agreed with u on that part. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go back on my word and agree with u completely. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :p

And I thought Laura moved to the UK when she was 6 yrs old, not 18 months? How the hell can anyone play tennis when they're 18 months old? :scratch: Lol.

Slumpsova
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:23 PM
:haha: this is just great!

Dawson.
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:35 PM
old news :shrug:

Dawson.
Jul 16th, 2008, 01:42 PM
:lol: @ all the aussies on this thread trying to claim her as there own! just like dokic, rodionova and gajdosova :lol:

the article is wrong. i followed her junior results last year and it said she was representing britain (why else would i sit up and take notice :shrug:)

but hey, hopefully this will mean she gets some wild cards into aussie events as well as british events in the future :)

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:01 PM
OMG why would you move from Australia to England?!?! It's ALWAYS the other way round!


This may surprise you but there must be many such cases. When I was at Oxford, there were plenty of Aussies around who were planning to stay in UK for good.

Because English people have a habit of dressing up the slighest bit of telent. ONly way we have any hope:shrug:

That great sense of irony that they apply even to themselves -- the reason I like Brits.

debopero
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:15 PM
And when she doesn't live up to the hype, no country will want her. :lol:

:haha:

But why is this such a big deal? If she plays for Britian, then she's British.

Dave.
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:16 PM
I actually don't know Laura at all, never said I did. All I said was that I consider Laura an Australian, even if she now lives in England and deemed a Brit. Through my eyes anyone who's born here in Australia will always be an Aussie, no matter where they are, where the live in the world, etc.

Even if they take up citizenship in another country as Laura has. Plus she has an Australian passport. :p


So you don't consider Dokic, Rodionova etc. as Australian?

Laura is British. She has lived most of her life here and as a British citizen. Most importantly, she herself considers herself British and therefore she is. She does not consider herself Australian, she has never played for them, she hasen't lived there for years. I cannot understand why you would consider her Australian.

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Not true. She was born in Australia but she only lived there for the first 18 months of her life.

Then she came to Singapore and lived here till she was 6 (according to wiki)

Australia - 1.5 years
Singapore - 4.5 years
Britain - 8 years and counting

If the Australians are claiming Laura, the Singaporeans can too. :p

Singapore here is totally irrelevant.

Who her parents are is the most important factor. Otherwise you would have to accept that one of the Radwański sisters is German because her parents were living in Germany when she was born there.

For me the most important factor is the nationality of the parents not just the place one is born. If her parents were Brits living in Australia when Laura was born then she is British to me.

In this case there one additional factor to be considered. Great Britain and Australia are not just two different countries. Very close links existing between Australia and Great Britain from the moment Australia was claimed for the British crown make the task of differentiating between Australian and British nationality particularly difficult. The case of Laura Robson may be a good example. In a sense she is both Australian and British. The problem is, in sports we still have monogamy: one is allowed to represent only one country.

I think Laura's decision is clear for people who were born and raised in (or moved at young age to) a country they don't ethnically belong to and not really understandable for those who have been living their lives in a country their ancestors come from.
For example, my parents are Russian, Russian is my native language, I am a citizen of Russia (I'll be able to change my citizenship to Estonian only when I turn 18) but I was born in Estonia and if I was an athlete I would definitely want to represent Estonia because I don't feel any kind of connection to Russia, if I had some kind of international success in sports it would be merit of Estonian facilities :shrug:

I don't think, Niya, your comparison with Russians living in Estonia is apt here. In the case of Laura Robson there is no question about ethnic difference, since the original core of Australian population (I am not talking about Aboriginals) is British.

paul_masterton
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:44 PM
lol lets not start talking about Johanna Konta who is a complete Ozzie but is about to stat epresenting UK when he passpot comes through.

Laura has only EVER competed under 'GBR'

moby
Jul 16th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Singapore here is totally irrelevant.I thought my facetiousness was self-evident. Obviously not.

The girl feels British. She has the documents to show for it. A debate should not even exist.

Ksenia.
Jul 16th, 2008, 03:51 PM
I don't think, Niya, your comparison with Russians living in Estonia is apt here. In the case of Laura Robson there is no question about ethnic difference, since the original core of Australian population (I am not talking about Aboriginals) is British.Well, it is, I think I used wrong terminology. Aussies and Britons are considered different as nationalities. When it comes to Laura, she started playing tennis in UK, so her tennis success has nothing to do with Australia IMO. And she has British accent I think :)

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 03:53 PM
I thought my facetiousness was self-evident. Obviously not.

In this forum you never know.


The girl feels British. She has the documents to show for it. A debate should not even exist.

In modern world, when traveling is so much easier and cheaper, when migration due to economic factors is such a common phenomenon, the question of nationality becomes obfuscated.

One of the fallacies, however, is the often heard opinion that she feels ..., she has documents to show for it. Thus she is ... .

Nationality and feelings are two different subjects altogether. Suppose I feel Tibetan, I am not going to be Tibetan even if I settle in Tibet (assuming Chinese authorities allow me which is doubtful) and have documents to show it. I would remain an American living in Tibet.

Part of the problem is that citizenship and nationality are often taken to be the same thing. In the past the two were close, today they parted ways with each other. Just look at who is playing for various countries in soccer... Roger Guerreiro, born in São Paulo, his nationality is Polish or Brazilian? He is saying he feels Polish, and represented Poland in the European Championship...

So for me, somebody saying in an interview that she feels British is no proof that she is. And by the way, what do you think she could say? No, I don't feel British?

Monica_Rules
Jul 16th, 2008, 03:55 PM
This story is a pile of shite. I have followed Laura since she was 11 and have never seen her noted in a draw as Aus. Although someone on britishtennis.net said she did represent Aus in some tournament when she was 13.

This story comes from the mail on sunday which is the sunday paper for the dialy mail, also knows as a pile of shite!

lympyisthebest
Jul 16th, 2008, 04:01 PM
In this forum you never know.



In modern world, when traveling is so much easier and cheaper, when migration due to economic factors is such a common phenomenon, the question of nationality becomes obfuscated.

One of the fallacies, however, is the often heard opinion that she feels ..., she has documents to show for it. Thus she is ... .

Nationality and feelings are two different subjects altogether. Suppose I feel Tibetan, I am not going to be Tibetan even if I settle in Tibet (assuming Chinese authorities allow me which is doubtful) and have documents to show it. I would remain an American living in Tibet.

Part of the problem is that citizenship and nationality are often taken to be the same thing. In the past the two were close, today they parted ways with each other. Just look at who is playing for various countries in soccer... Roger Guerreiro, born in São Paulo, his nationality is Polish or Brazilian? He is saying he feels Polish, and represented Poland in the European Championship...

So for me, somebody saying in an interview that she feels British is no proof that she is. And by the way, what do you think she could say? No, I don't feel British?


So what defines "Nationality"?

Caz
Jul 16th, 2008, 04:10 PM
Because her girls final got more viewers in Britain than the womens final.
Also, when the resale ticket office opened, just before 3pm, on the day of the women singles and girls singles final, my friend and I got tickets for Centre Court (my friend wanted to see the doubles final) in a matter of minutes, we then had to wait 30 mins for a Court 1 ticket to see Laura's match (but were offered several more Centre Court tickets while we waited!!). It was really quite unbelievable!!

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 05:16 PM
So what defines "Nationality"?

Read my previous post in this thread. I am not offering an easy clear cut definition. I am rather alert to the fact that the concept of nationality lost its sharp borders.

There are too many cases in modern world where it would be very difficult to decide for one nationality versus the other.

Since I don't know the details about Laura Robson, I offer no opinion as to whether she is Australian, or British. The fact that she grew up in UK doesn't mean per se that she is British, as well as the fact that she was born in Australia doesn't make her automatically an Australian. If her parents were British who for a number of years relocated to Australia, I would consider this to be a good case to treat Laura as British. If her parents were Australian, then in my eyes Laura was and remains Australian.

Maybe because I believe that your nationality -- it never changes, your citizenship -- sometimes it does.

A better example is the case of Marina Eraković. She plays for New Zealand, even though she is Croatian. She was even born in Croatia. She would be Croatian even if she was born after her parents came to New Zealand. The place where you are born is less important than the nationality of your parents. So who she is? A Croatian with a New Zealand passport. Whether she keeps her Croatian roots or not does not affect her nationality.

lympyisthebest
Jul 16th, 2008, 05:31 PM
In this forum you never know.



In modern world, when traveling is so much easier and cheaper, when migration due to economic factors is such a common phenomenon, the question of nationality becomes obfuscated.

One of the fallacies, however, is the often heard opinion that she feels ..., she has documents to show for it. Thus she is ... .

Nationality and feelings are two different subjects altogether. Suppose I feel Tibetan, I am not going to be Tibetan even if I settle in Tibet (assuming Chinese authorities allow me which is doubtful) and have documents to show it. I would remain an American living in Tibet.

Part of the problem is that citizenship and nationality are often taken to be the same thing. In the past the two were close, today they parted ways with each other. Just look at who is playing for various countries in soccer... Roger Guerreiro, born in São Paulo, his nationality is Polish or Brazilian? He is saying he feels Polish, and represented Poland in the European Championship...

So for me, somebody saying in an interview that she feels British is no proof that she is. And by the way, what do you think she could say? No, I don't feel British?


But how do you define one's nationality, and label them as a Brit or Australian for example, you didn't actually say that.



For me the most important factor is the nationality of the parents not just the place one is born. If her parents were Brits living in Australia when Laura was born then she is British to me.

Shepster
Jul 16th, 2008, 05:32 PM
The place where you are born is less important than the nationality of your parents.
Exactly. There was a white guy playing for Trinidad and Tobago at the World Cup in 2006, his parents were English but they were on holiday and she happened to give birth to her son on one of the islands. He was never going to be good enough to play for England so he took the opportunity to play for a country who *just happened* to be where he was born.

For me it's family and environment, those are the main shaping factors. I have a friend who was born in Wales to Iranian parents, went back to Iran at the age of 2 and came back to England a couple of years later and has lived here ever since. She has dual nationality, says if you put a gun to her head she'd say she was Iranian but says she is definitely British too. Never refers to herself as Welsh though :).

moby
Jul 16th, 2008, 05:35 PM
In this forum you never know.
It will do you well to note that most Henin fans, especially those that post in her subforum regularly, have a penchant for irony. Eschewing obfuscation is a motto we take to heart. ;)
One of the fallacies, however, is the often heard opinion that she feels ..., she has documents to show for it. Thus she is ... .

Nationality and feelings are two different subjects altogether. Suppose I feel Tibetan, I am not going to be Tibetan even if I settle in Tibet (assuming Chinese authorities allow me which is doubtful) and have documents to show it. I would remain an American living in Tibet.If indeed you feel Tibetan, give your allegiances to Tibet, settle in Tibet, and become a Chinese citizen living in Tibet (or Tibetan citizen, depending on your stance), then you are Tibetan. (I think the actual act of settling in Tibet is somewhat less important than the other factors.) Perhaps you perceive some difficulty in reconciling your choice of homeland with your roots; I don't. To me, there is no dilemma; you may choose to adopt the appellation of American-Tibetan as an identifier, and in so doing pay respect to your origins, but that makes you no less Tibetan than someone who was born and bred in Tibet. Ethnicity enjoys but an incomplete correlation with nationality.

I didn't know you were American though - interesting. :)

As for Laura, while there are valid rational reasons for her claiming to feel British even if she didn't, I see little reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt. She spent most of her formative years in Britain; and above all, she comes across as a very genuine person.
The place where you are born is less important than the nationality of your parents.I agree, but venture to assert that both are only important in so far as they affect our "feelings", "choice of allegiance", and of course our original citizenship - most people after all do not change their citizenships.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 16th, 2008, 05:40 PM
The new british hero is aussie :eek:

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 05:51 PM
It will do you well to note that most Henin fans, especially those that post in her subforum regularly, have a penchant for irony. Eschewing obfuscation is a motto we take to heart.


When I learn more about you, moby, then it would be easier for me to make a proper judgment.


If indeed you feel Tibetan, give your allegiances to Tibet, settle in Tibet, and become a Chinese citizen living in Tibet (or Tibetan citizen, depending on your stance), then you are Tibetan. Perhaps you perceive some difficulty in reconciling your choice of homeland with your roots; I don't. To me, there is no dilemma;

This is where we differ. For me there is no dilemma either: I would remain American. Similarly I would remain American even if I spent 20 years living in Paris where I go very often and had excellent prospects of staying for good.


I didn't know you were American though - interesting. :)

You meant to say it didn't square well with an opinion currently in vogue in Europe that all Americans are ignorant simpletons? The flag next to my avatar actually stands for something.

moby
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:08 PM
When I learn more about you, moby, then it would be easier for me to make a proper judgment.Of course. That was just a word of advice in case you should have the good fortune - or misfortune? - of running into other Henin fans (those who display with pride in their signature: "Justine Phillistines' - that should set off a few alarms).
This is where we differ. For me there is no dilemma either: I would remain American. Similarly I would remain American even if I spent 20 years living in Paris where I go very often and had excellent prospects of staying for good.Things may get a little trickier if you suddenly feel French, take on French loyalties and apply successfully for a French citizenship, don't you think?
You meant to say it didn't square well with an opinion currently in vogue in Europe that all Americans are ignorant simpletons? The flag next to my avatar actually stands for something.Not just in Europe, mon cherie. ;) But it was more the writing style. Flags don't always mean anything; I, for one, do not have a flag; your flag could simply be an indication of your location - Berkeley, CA, USA, where you could easily be a foreign graduate student at UC Berkeley.

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:09 PM
Does OUR new hero sound like an Aussie?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GyoG5CpjG4E

Nope, case closed.

Most non English speaking folks would never be able to determine that somebody is an Aussie from his accent.

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM
Things may get a little trickier if you suddenly feel French, take on French loyalties and apply successfully for a French citizenship, don't you think?


This would only make me an American with a French passport.


But it was more the writing style. Flags don't always mean anything; I, for one, do not have a flag; your flag could simply be an indication of your location - Berkeley, CA, USA, where you could easily be a foreign graduate student at UC Berkeley.

Such a guess certainly would make sense. Even though it isn't correct.

About the writing style: it must be some strange idiolect which is partly the result of my unusual lifestyle, constant reading of classical literature in the languages it was written, and the fact that I cut myself from the polluting influence of mass media years ago. I had a TV set only once in my life, for about 6 months, when I was at the University of Oxford. I was so disappointed even with BBC that I did't renew the TV license, and never wanted to have a TV set in my living space afterwards.

wally1
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:35 PM
OMG why would you move from Australia to England?!?! It's ALWAYS the other way round! :p

jokeys, Laura is a Brit, no question! :)You should try coming to England, particularly London - the whole place is full of aussies :lol:

In my view it depends on what the person feels in their heart in terms of nationality. If Robson feels deep down she's British that's good enough for me. A similar case is the Australian cricketer Andrew Symonds who was born in Birmingham I believe and moved to Australia when he was quite young. He was offered the chance to play for England but declared he was a "fair dinkum aussie" which is fair enough. Pity as he's a very good player and was a pain in the arse in the last ashes series.

wally1
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Most non English speaking folks would never be able to determine that somebody is an Aussie from his accent.No, but British and Australians could, which is probably where the interest lies in this case.

Willam
Jul 16th, 2008, 06:53 PM
Where she got that Tan? :eek:

thegreendestiny
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:03 PM
Most non English speaking folks would never be able to determine that somebody is an Aussie from his accent.

I'm neither british nor aussie yet i know when im speaking with one. i also know if im speaking to a scottish or an irish.

Malva
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:14 PM
I'm neither british nor aussie yet i know when im speaking with one. i also know if im speaking to a scottish or an irish.

Sure, but I wrote in my post

Most non English speaking folks

ninanina19
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Didn't she live in England for most of her life though. Her father is English as well. Also, a lot of people don't bother getting citizenship if there is no reason to.

johnoo
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:31 PM
There's so many people in the world who could/can play for different countries that its really upto the individual which country they feel they belong to or want to play for.You could like John McEnroe be born elsewhere (in his case germany)because your parents were working/serving over there,But I bet McEnroe has never felt german or wanted to represent germany at tennis(although I don't know that for certain?).I know the robson case is different but its her choice for whatever reasons.

wally1
Jul 16th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Where she got that Tan? :eek:Probably from the all the time she's spent training in Florida, though contrary to most opinion you can actually get sunburned in England in the summer :lol: Anyway, it's almost certainly not a legacy of the 18 months she spent as a baby in Australia :eek:

DutchieGirl
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:39 AM
:silly:


See Rodionova/Gajdosova

:help:

What about them? The rules don't have to be the same in EVERY country. So my question was not stupid. Bitchi has Aussie citizenship now as far as I know...not sure about Jarka, but they aren't playing for Australia NOW, but they did during the AO - so what is your point exactly?

DutchieGirl
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:42 AM
I actually don't know Laura at all, never said I did. All I said was that I consider Laura an Australian, even if she now lives in England and deemed a Brit. Through my eyes anyone who's born here in Australia will always be an Aussie, no matter where they are, where the live in the world, etc.

Even if they take up citizenship in another country as Laura has. Plus she has an Australian passport. :p

Lmao, that's SOOO true!

:lol:
Your thought process is interesting. I was born in Australia to British parents (they are both "Aussies" now - but my Mum said she always sees me as British. :shrug: I never call myself British, even though I have British citizenship - I am Aussie, but if I moved to England, doesn't mean I wouldn't then consider myself British. :shrug:

DutchieGirl
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:43 AM
Doesn't work like that. Let me use a silly hypotheical, say if someone was born in New Zealand and then after just one month they decide to move to Australia for whatever is the reason is. This child will grow up and go through life's exprenices in Australia, get all the training and development through Australian coaches and facilities. You think that they should represent New Zealand because they lived in that country for one month when they don't even remember, no that's silly. They would of feel Australian not an New Zealander. You think it's fair for all the development that would of been put in by australian coaches that it's fair?

Same goes here, Britain have helped through her young tennis career so far, she has live most of her life in Britain, doesn't matter if she lives the first 18 months of her life in Australia, she wouldn't remember it and would remember all her experiences in Britain, she defiantely would feel British.

Please don't try and accept her as one of ours, she's not. I hate it when I hear this talk about a couple of Aussies who have been training her as juniors suddenly switch countries because they have a dual citzenship because their parents lived there or they moved out when they were 2, after all the training and development they have been given and they lived here, then they switch countries like it's moving to another football club. It's a joke.

This thread is just Birtish newspapers trying to make up a story from nothing. Sadly, this is what this poor girl is going to have to deal with from now on.
Oh yeah - poor NZ - their top player is actually Croatian because she was born there. ;) :angel:

DutchieGirl
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:47 AM
:lol: @ all the aussies on this thread trying to claim her as there own! just like dokic, rodionova and gajdosova :lol:

the article is wrong. i followed her junior results last year and it said she was representing britain (why else would i sit up and take notice :shrug:)

but hey, hopefully this will mean she gets some wild cards into aussie events as well as british events in the future :)
I'm Aussie - I don't claim Laura as an Aussie. Nor do I claim Rodionova or Gajdosova (as they are still playing under their respective countries at WTA tourneys). Dokic I do say is Australian (unfortunately) coz she grew up here the most, and she calls herself Aussie - her choice.

*hingis_forever*
Jul 17th, 2008, 01:56 AM
I do find it a bit funny because Laura considers herself British which is great and obviously I consider her British too but I have similar story to hers in that I was born in England to English parents and moved to America when I was not even two years old. Even though I have spent 17 of my 19 years of life in America I consider myself 100% English and would NEVER consider becoming anything else. Despite living in America most of my life, I still have a pretty thick English accent and try to keep an altogether English way of life (which, admittedly, isn't much different than an American way of life).

Malva
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:24 AM
But how do you define one's nationality, and label them as a Brit or Australian for example, you didn't actually say that.

Sorry, I missed your response to my post.

What constitutes being British, or being Australian, is an entirely different issue. Interesting in itself. I suppose, discussing it inevitably leads to a deeper historical reflection.

This is not a forum for such discussions I am afraid.

In my previous posts I focused rather on relative criteria of nationality, and I was aware that some readers of my posts may pose the following question:

All right, you define the nationality of the child in terms of the nationality of child's parents. How do you determine their nationality?

My answer would be: I assume that their nationality is a given.

Prizeidiot
Jul 17th, 2008, 02:47 AM
I think she only lived something like the first 6 years (or was it 6 months? I think years) in Australia. She's 14 now. She'd barely even remember life in Australia.

Try as we might to claim her as our own, it won't happen. She's a Brit

DutchieGirl
Jul 17th, 2008, 07:21 AM
Sorry, I missed your response to my post.

What constitutes being British, or being Australian, is an entirely different issue. Interesting in itself. I suppose, discussing it inevitably leads to a deeper historical reflection.

This is not a forum for such discussions I am afraid.

In my previous posts I focused rather on relative criteria of nationality, and I was aware that some readers of my posts may pose the following question:

All right, you define the nationality of the child in terms of the nationality of child's parents. How do you determine their nationality?

My answer would be: I assume that their nationality is a given.
I'm sorry to say, but my parents are both British, and I am so NOT British. I'm Australian. I was born in Australia, and have lived here all my life. Although I guess with Aust-Britain it's a little less clear cut, as you noted before there are close ties between the two countries, but even though I have dual citizenship, I sure as hell don't call myself British ever.