PDA

View Full Version : One more match Serena and you'll surpass Monica.


Nicolás89
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:36 PM
If she beats Venus you could pretty much say once and for all that she surpassed the great Monica Seles in singles accomplishments.

Do not screw it though. :p

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:41 PM
One more match Venus and you'll surpass no one.

mckyle.
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:42 PM
If Serena wins, she will have tied Seles in number of grand slam singles titles. Monica still has more WTA titles and more weeks at #1. So I don't know how Serena will have passed Seles in accomplishments (yet).

Nicolás89
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:44 PM
If Serena wins, she will have tied Seles in number of grand slam singles titles. Monica still has more WTA titles and more weeks at #1. So I don't know how Serena will have passed Seles in accomplishments (yet).

Her lack of "Wimbledons" let her down IMO. Serena has every big title on her wall.

Kart
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:46 PM
Many people on here feel Serena has already surpassed Monica.

There's a fair argument for both sides though until Serena overtakes Monica, I'll favour Monica as I like her more.

thrust
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:54 PM
If Serena wins, she will have tied Seles in number of grand slam singles titles. Monica still has more WTA titles and more weeks at #1. So I don't know how Serena will have passed Seles in accomplishments (yet).

CORRECT!! Many more titles, and Many more weeks at #1. The only real advantae Serena would have is one FO title. Serea would certainly be the best of her era, but not quite in the same league as Monica. Having said that, perhaps today it is tougher to do as well as players of the past. The game, since 2000, the game has become much more of a power game which is harder on the body which makes injuries more common.

Pureracket
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:56 PM
CORRECT!! Many more titles, and Many more weeks at #1. The only real advantae Serena would have is one FO title. Serea would certainly be the best of her era, but not quite in the same league as Monica. Having said that, perhaps today it is tougher to do as well as players of the past. The game, since 2000, the game has become much more of a power game which is harder on the body which makes injuries more common.wimbledon

Serenita
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:04 PM
Don't jinx the girl!

Dave.
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:15 PM
No way, still a while to go before Serena overtakes the great Monica Seles.

AnomyBC
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:16 PM
You're getting ahead of yourself. She needs two more majors to pass Monica, and even if Serena gets to 10, most people would probably still consider Monica to have been the better player since she would have almost certainly won more majors had she not been stabbed. And remember, Venus has a good 50/50 chance (at least) of winning tomorrow, so Serena may very well still be stuck at 8 for after this.

Nicolás89
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:19 PM
You're getting ahead of yourself. She needs two more majors to pass Monica, and even if Serena gets to 10, most people would probably still consider Monica to have been the better player since she would have almost certainly won more majors had she not been stabbed. And remember, Venus has a good 50/50 chance (at least) of winning tomorrow, so Serena may very well still be stuck at 8 for after this.

She did not. What's the point on that?

And that's what I said with "IF she beats Venus", she could still lose.

Pureracket
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:39 PM
No way, still a while to go before Serena overtakes the great Monica Seles.wimbledon

Pureracket
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:41 PM
You're getting ahead of yourself. She needs two more majors to pass Monica, and even if Serena gets to 10, most people would probably still consider Monica to have been the better player since she would have almost certainly won more majors had she not been stabbed. And remember, Venus has a good 50/50 chance (at least) of winning tomorrow, so Serena may very well still be stuck at 8 for after this.wimbledon

Kabezya
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Comparisons with respect to history are nice. If Serena wins it will be another slam title she adds to her own list and legacy.

IceSkaTennisFan
Jul 5th, 2008, 02:39 AM
You're getting ahead of yourself. She needs two more majors to pass Monica, and even if Serena gets to 10, most people would probably still consider Monica to have been the better player since she would have almost certainly won more majors had she not been stabbed. And remember, Venus has a good 50/50 chance (at least) of winning tomorrow, so Serena may very well still be stuck at 8 for after this.
Had Serena not been injured and gone through the legal battles, who knows how many more slams she would have won. Life is full of what ifs, but all that matters is what was actually accomplished and what has yet to be accomplished. Serena has time on her side. What happened to Monica was a travesty and that's all it can ever be. Monica's potential at that point in time was lost and the travesty is that we will never know what would have happened.

AnomyBC
Jul 5th, 2008, 03:23 AM
She did not. What's the point on that?

Well if you're only interested in who achieved more, than certainly things like Monica's stabbing wouldn't matter, but usually people are more concerned with who was the better player and for that question you can't just go by who won more majors. If a player's career was cut short by a tragedy---the best example of that being Maureen Connolly---then you either have to imagine how many majors the person was likely to win had they had a full career or have you have to find some other fair way of comparing them to other players. The bottom line is, if Serena ends her career having only won 9 majors, it's going to be extremely difficult to make the argument that she was a better player than Monica or Connolly, simply because they achieved the same thing in a much shorter period of time and would have likely won much more than 9 majors had it not been for their respective tragedies.

AnomyBC
Jul 5th, 2008, 03:35 AM
Life is full of what ifs, but all that matters is what was actually accomplished and what has yet to be accomplished.

Like I said above, most people are more interested in the question of who was best player, not the question of who achieved more. If Serena Williams was struck by lightning and killed before tomorrow's final, it wouldn't stop the Serena fans in this thread from arguing that she was a better player than Monica---even though Monica won one more major than Serena did. Similarly, Margaret Smith Court has won more majors than any other female, but when people debate who the best female player of all time is, it usually winds up being a battle between Steffi Graf and Martina Navratilova. The bottom line is, all achievements need to be put in context because while they result primarily from skill, they're also greatly influenced by random events and the quality of the competition.

IceSkaTennisFan
Jul 5th, 2008, 03:38 AM
Like I said above, most people are more interested in the question of who was best player, not the question of who achieved more. If Serena Williams was struck by lightning and killed before tomorrow's final, it wouldn't stop the Serena fans in this thread from arguing that she was a better player than Monica---even though Monica won one more major than Serena did. Similarly, Margaret Smith Court has won more majors than any other female, but when people debate who the best female player of all time is, it usually winds up being a battle between Steffi Graf and Martina Navratilova. The bottom line is, all achievements need to be put in context because while they result primarily from skill, they're also greatly influenced by random events and the quality of the competition.
True, but that still doesn't justify calling Monica better because of what she would have accomplished had she not been stabbed like you suggested in your earlier post.

AnomyBC
Jul 5th, 2008, 03:41 AM
True, but that still doesn't justify calling Monica better because of what she would have accomplished had she not been stabbed like you suggested in your earlier post.

Well if Monica would have accomplish more, then she's the better player. Is there an argument against that?

spencercarlos
Jul 5th, 2008, 03:43 AM
wimbledon
Im sure you ass think that Venus is better/has her own case over Monica because of Wimbledon :lol: delusion

AnomyBC
Jul 5th, 2008, 03:45 AM
PS - Just for the record, I think Maureen Connolly is a better player than both Monica and Serena. I think had it not been for her accident Connolly would have likely won at least 20 majors and quite possibly would hold the all-time record. She actually won the last NINE majors she competed in before her accident. Can you believe that? And she was only 19 years old!

Julian
Jul 5th, 2008, 06:17 AM
wow cant believe we are already comparing Monica Seles with Serena Williams..my time has flown by lol i feel old

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 5th, 2008, 08:22 AM
You're getting ahead of yourself. She needs two more majors to pass Monica, and even if Serena gets to 10, most people would probably still consider Monica to have been the better player since she would have almost certainly won more majors had she not been stabbed. And remember, Venus has a good 50/50 chance (at least) of winning tomorrow, so Serena may very well still be stuck at 8 for after this.

You cant sing your shoulda coulda woulda's with Monica Seles. There are many athletes that have big injuries and still come back and play as well and some cases better. It is what it is..after 1996 it was a wrap for Seles in slams...I see Serena as the better player..simply because the head to head match up with Monica favors Serena. Monica is a legendary tennis player without a doubt but Serena and her sister has already made history in the sport...and people already see them as Legends. Monica, I think fell to the level of competition while Serena was one of the pioneers to bring the game UP a level and is able to keep up with it playing patches of her highest level and playing half the tennis she use to play ;) While I respect monica and miss her on the court, I see Serena eventually passing Seles in slams if she continues to play another 4 or 5 years...its only a matter of time.

Dodoboy.
Jul 5th, 2008, 08:31 AM
I really wish Monica had a wimbledon title. :(

blamoh
Jul 5th, 2008, 08:44 AM
One scenario we should look at as well is the rivalry. During Monica's time there were only her and stiffi. That made it very easy too for her to have
won more slams in my opinion.
As for serena, it is or was not to win those slams in presence of likes
Hingis, davenport, Venus, Clijsters, Henin to name a few.

venus_rulez
Jul 5th, 2008, 08:49 AM
I love Monica Seles, but it's hard to imagine her, even in her heyday, being able to consistently beat either Williams Sister. The biggest difference in my opinion being that they could consistently run down her shots, even in her fittest days, Monica's movement wasn't spectacular. Not a weakness, but hardly a strength if you ask me. But she's already into the book of legends in tennis as is Serena whether she wins or loses today.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 5th, 2008, 08:49 AM
One scenario we should look at as well is the rivalry. During Monica's time there were only her and stiffi. That made it very easy too for her to have
won more slams in my opinion.
As for serena, it is or was not to win those slams in presence of likes
Hingis, davenport, Venus, Clijsters, Henin to name a few.

And it was players like this that prevented her to winning slams after 1996. Though I think her unfortunate stabbing took a toll on her tennis, I dont think it caused her to stop winning slams because to my understanding she won a slam after being stab...am I right? like I said, I think Monica didnt keep up with the competition..players eventually hit almost as hard as her and they were faster.

jimbo mack
Jul 5th, 2008, 09:13 AM
i personally thik serena needs ten slams to surpass monica's achievements, completely

Calypso
Jul 5th, 2008, 11:24 AM
No way, still a while to go before Serena overtakes the great Monica Seles.

With a win Serena, will *overtake Seles.

Dodoboy.
Jul 5th, 2008, 12:07 PM
I love Monica Seles, but it's hard to imagine her, even in her heyday, being able to consistently beat either Williams Sister. The biggest difference in my opinion being that they could consistently run down her shots, even in her fittest days, Monica's movement wasn't spectacular. Not a weakness, but hardly a strength if you ask me. But she's already into the book of legends in tennis as is Serena whether she wins or loses today.

I agree and Venus in particular.