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Serenidad.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 05:46 PM
If Serena wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Seles?
If Venus wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Henin?
If Venus wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Hingis? I put this one because a considerable amount of people said Hingis was still greater due to variety of slams and her other accomplishments. So, will this slam finally end the argument?

Thanx4nothin
Jul 3rd, 2008, 05:54 PM
Both Venus and Serena have a lot of other things to win B4 they catch up with Seles (Serena) and Henin (Venus) as I believe Seles has many more titles than Serena and Justine a few more titles that Venus. If Serena can win ten slams and Venus 8 or 7 and more titles than Henin they will be greater.

Tennisstar86
Jul 3rd, 2008, 05:57 PM
ummm are we talkin singles career or career as a whole... If venus wins She and Henin tie cause in the long run its not titles blah blah, its Grand slams that you're remembered by and they'll both have 7... but career Venus> than Henin by merit of her doubles career...

Destiny
Jul 3rd, 2008, 05:59 PM
Who cares they are both great

Dave.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 05:59 PM
Firstly, Serena and Venus are already greater than Seles and Henin as they have been successful at doubles too.

But Seles will still be a greater singles player than Serena even if she wins 1 or 2 more slams. Seles won alot more titles, spent alot more time as no.1 and has achieved more as a singles player.

Just Do It
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:02 PM
Serena and Venus cant be compared to Seles. If Seles did not have a tragedy she had, she would have achieved a lot more. Even with that she achieved a lot more.

Serenita
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:09 PM
They are the greatest, ON and OFF court

Dave.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:15 PM
Serena and Venus cant be compared to Seles. If Seles did not have a tragedy she had, she would have achieved a lot more. Even with that she achieved a lot more.

You could make the same argument for Serena and Venus if their sister haden't been killed in 2003. Either way, you can only compare the actual achievements of the players not the 'what-ifs?' and as it currently stands Seles is a greater singles player than Serena.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:17 PM
I think Serena Williams will be bigger in a few years. She's clearly bigger than Henin, Hingis.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:18 PM
Serena and Venus cant be compared to Seles. If Seles did not have a tragedy she had, she would have achieved a lot more. Even with that she achieved a lot more.

Her carreer was already falling before the incident, and I don't believe she would have been able to compete with Davenport, Hingis, Venus, Serena on a higher level.

the cat
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:27 PM
Serena is a level better than Venus as far as I'm concerned because of her rare career grand slam. Venus is great has only won 2 of the 4 grand slams and is not quite at Serena's level of greatness.

As far as Monica Seles goes I don't think it's fair to include her in this because without the adbsurd stabbing she suffered at 19 years old in 1993 she would have dominated women's tennis for the next 5 years or so and likely won between 15 and 25 grand slam singles titles instead of the 9 she ended up with. Monica was robbed of so much when she was stabbed. :(

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:34 PM
Serena is a level better than Venus as far as I'm concerned because of her rare career grand slam. Venus is great has only won 2 of the 4 grand slams and is not quite at Serena's level of greatness.

As far as Monica Seles goes I don't think it's fair to include her in this because without the adbsurd stabbing she suffered at 19 years old in 1993 she would have dominated women's tennis for the next 5 years or so and likely won between 15 and 25 grand slam singles titles instead of the 9 she ended up with. Monica was robbed of so much when she was stabbed. :(

Don't really agree. She would have been no match for Hingis of Davenport. Maybe she would have won a few grand slams, but that's it.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:34 PM
Her carreer was already falling before the incident, and I don't believe she would have been able to compete with Davenport, Hingis, Venus, Serena on a higher level.

:help:

Monica was coming off an Australian Open title, and she had dominated the three previous seasons.

Venus still needs one more GS after Wimbledon to be "greater" than Henin. Serena is already greater than Seles. Venus was greater than Hingis last year.

That's just singles, though.

Venus has a greater career than Henin, if we count doubles and mixed.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:36 PM
Don't really agree. She would have been no match for Hingis of Davenport. Maybe she would have won a few grand slams, but that's it.

No match against Hingis? She was very competitive with Martina throughout their rivalry. Seles' game was so advanced compared to other players, while many critics argue that Hingis didn't last because her game was more suited to the 1970s and 80s.

Davenport had great strokes, but even she's lost to Seles.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:38 PM
You could make the same argument for Serena and Venus if their sister haden't been killed in 2003. Either way, you can only compare the actual achievements of the players not the 'what-ifs?' and as it currently stands Seles is a greater singles player than Serena.

No way.

The way I see it is that both Seles and Serena had the greatest opposition in Graf and Venus. Serena has all four GS, while Seles doesn't have Wimbledon. Seles' period of dominance was longer than Serena's, but Serena has "lasted" longer - Serena won her first GS in 1999, and if she wins on Saturday, it'll be a span of nine years, which is remarkable. Monica won her first in 1990 and her last in 1996.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:39 PM
No match against Hingis? She was very competitive with Martina throughout their rivalry. Seles' game was so advanced compared to other players, while many critics argue that Hingis didn't last because her game was more suited to the 1970s and 80s.

Davenport had great strokes, but even she's lost to Seles.

Hingis's game was good for any period. She was really a pain in the ass on court, and Davenport had double the power of Seles, and that's the reason why Seles was so good, and her obnoxious and overreacted grunts.

Dodoboy.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:45 PM
You could make the same argument for Serena and Venus if their sister haden't been killed in 2003. Either way, you can only compare the actual achievements of the players not the 'what-ifs?' and as it currently stands Seles is a greater singles player than Serena.

definitely!

Just Do It
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:45 PM
Her carreer was already falling before the incident, and I don't believe she would have been able to compete with Davenport, Hingis, Venus, Serena on a higher level.

What are you talking about ? The incident happened when she was on her peak in 1993. She was out of tennis for 2 years and was never the same player/person after she came back. She achieved a lot in her come back though.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:47 PM
Hingis's game was good for any period. She was really a pain in the ass on court, and Davenport had double the power of Seles, and that's the reason why Seles was so good, and her obnoxious and overreacted grunts.

Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about tennis? Seles was one of the first and purest strikers of the ball in tennis. She hit the ball extremely hard and flat. Hingis' game wasn't good for any period. That is why they call this year and the past couple of years "power tennis". Hingis had little power - Venus and Serena, and the other power hitters forced her into her first retirement because of it.

Just Do It
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:47 PM
You could make the same argument for Serena and Venus if their sister haden't been killed in 2003. Either way, you can only compare the actual achievements of the players not the 'what-ifs?' and as it currently stands Seles is a greater singles player than Serena.

Sorry, but you really cant compare those 2 things.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:48 PM
What are you talking about ? The incident happened when she was on her peak in 1993. She was out of tennis for 2 years and was never the same player/person after she came back. She achieved a lot in her come back though.

Very true! :drool:

Even as an overweight and unfit player, Monica still won a GS and reached another final. She had some terrific results, and won many titles at a time when her peak was way over.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:50 PM
Sorry, but you really cant compare those 2 things.

You can't...really, but they are the same in essence.

Venus, Serena, and Monica were greatly impacted by injuries and psychopaths.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:52 PM
Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about tennis? Seles was one of the first and purest strikers of the ball in tennis. She hit the ball extremely hard and flat. Hingis' game wasn't good for any period. That is why they call this year and the past couple of years "power tennis". Hingis had little power - Venus and Serena, and the other power hitters forced her into her first retirement because of it.

Let's talk about my knowledge in tennis.

I Have A+ level and I'm qualified to play at the ATP. Throughout my national tennis carreer

I've won my first tournament at the age of 10
I've won 47 Singles National Titles
I've won 25 Doubles National Titles
I've had a streak of 45 unbeaten matches
I've obtained sponsorship by Nike, Wilson when I was 12
I've won over 300 matches, and had mutiple streaks of at least 30 consecutive wins

YTD

I've won 6 singles titels + 2 doubles titles + 3 mixed doubles titles
I've obtained a 34-1 record in singles & 25-0 in doubles and currently have a 30 win streak.

PREDICTIONS

In my life so far predicting in tennis, i've been 88% right, since 1990. Over 2000 matches I've predicted and even journalist ask me what my picks are.

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:53 PM
this should be a multiple choice poll.

Dave.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:53 PM
No way.

The way I see it is that both Seles and Serena had the greatest opposition in Graf and Venus. Serena has all four GS, while Seles doesn't have Wimbledon. Seles' period of dominance was longer than Serena's, but Serena has "lasted" longer - Serena won her first GS in 1999, and if she wins on Saturday, it'll be a span of nine years, which is remarkable. Monica won her first in 1990 and her last in 1996.

It's not as simple as just counting their Slams. Just because Monica won her last slam in 96 doesn't mean she was finished then. Monica remained a solid top player up until the start of 2003, consistently ranked inside the top10 and reaching the later stages of Grand Slams and big tournaments. Monica has certainly "lasted longer" than Serena (which is understandable since she's older!).

Graf was totally dominating when Seles first came onto the tour. To break that up and start dominating herself was a huge achievement for Monica. Serena started dominating at a slighly weaker time in tennis (although it was still pretty strong).

Dodoboy.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:55 PM
Let's talk about my knowledge in tennis.

I Have A+ level and I'm qualified to play at the ATP. Throughout my national tennis carreer

I've won my first tournament at the age of 10
I've won 47 Singles National Titles
I've won 25 Doubles National Titles
I've had a streak of 45 unbeaten matches
I've obtained sponsorship by Nike, Wilson when I was 12
I've won over 300 matches, and had mutiple streaks of at least 30 consecutive wins

:worship::worship:

Dodoboy.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:55 PM
Very true! :drool:

Even as an overweight and unfit player, Monica still won a GS and reached another final. She had some terrific results, and won many titles at a time when her peak was way over.

2007 AO according to most :lol:

Just Do It
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:55 PM
Let's talk about my knowledge in tennis.

I Have A+ level and I'm qualified to play at the ATP. Throughout my national tennis carreer

I've won my first tournament at the age of 10
I've won 47 Singles National Titles
I've won 25 Doubles National Titles
I've had a streak of 45 unbeaten matches
I've obtained sponsorship by Nike, Wilson when I was 12
I've won over 300 matches, and had mutiple streaks of at least 30 consecutive wins

That's all standing,but Monica is Monica :lol:

Dave.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:56 PM
Sorry, but you really cant compare those 2 things.

There's no doubt that Monica's stabbing had a worse affect on her personally, but both tragedies had a similar effect on their careers. Monica and Serena were dominating at those times and those tragedies broke up that domination.

LDVTennis
Jul 3rd, 2008, 06:56 PM
Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about tennis? Seles was one of the first and purest strikers of the ball in tennis. She hit the ball extremely hard and flat. Hingis' game wasn't good for any period. That is why they call this year and the past couple of years "power tennis". Hingis had little power - Venus and Serena, and the other power hitters forced her into her first retirement because of it.

For someone who was such a "weak" player, Hingis sure had great success against Seles. Hingis is 15-5 against Seles. Hingis won their first 5 matches. Ouch!

Davenport's head to head against Seles is equally devastating. Davenport is 10-3 against Seles. Davenport won 9 straight matches at one point. Ouch!

Hingis also won Wimbledon.
So, did Davenport.
Seles did not.

If Serena wins on Saturday, based on her grand slam record alone, she will be greater than Seles. She's already won Wimbledon.

Just Do It
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:02 PM
There's no doubt that Monica's stabbing had a worse affect on her personally, but both tragedies had a similar effect on their careers. Monica and Serena were dominating at those times and those tragedies broke up that domination.

Of course, but Monica was affected mentally and physically and was not able to play tennis for 2 years. While sisters were affected metally and were back on tour in couple of months.

serenus_2k8
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:09 PM
A win here and yes, Vee is certainly greater than Henin.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:17 PM
It's not as simple as just counting their Slams. Just because Monica won her last slam in 96 doesn't mean she was finished then. Monica remained a solid top player up until the start of 2003, consistently ranked inside the top10 and reaching the later stages of Grand Slams and big tournaments. Monica has certainly "lasted longer" than Serena (which is understandable since she's older!).

Graf was totally dominating when Seles first came onto the tour. To break that up and start dominating herself was a huge achievement for Monica. Serena started dominating at a slighly weaker time in tennis (although it was still pretty strong).

I disagree. There were great champions in both Seles and Serena's dominant periods. If anything, dominating in the 2000s is much more difficult than dominating in the early 1990s because the game has changed so much, and injuries are much more common.

Venus Williams was Serena's biggest competition. Venus will go down as one of the all-time greats, just like Seles, Graf, and Serena. Serena beat Venus, who is arguably the greatest grasscourt player of her generation in two Wimbledon finals.

The "lasting longer" thing was just to emphasize the number of years between their first and last GS. Evert is noted for this. Sure, Monica was consistently reaching the QFs of GS in the 2000s, but most people knew her time had passed.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:24 PM
Let's talk about my knowledge in tennis.

I Have A+ level and I'm qualified to play at the ATP. Throughout my national tennis carreer

I've won my first tournament at the age of 10
I've won 47 Singles National Titles
I've won 25 Doubles National Titles
I've had a streak of 45 unbeaten matches
I've obtained sponsorship by Nike, Wilson when I was 12
I've won over 300 matches, and had mutiple streaks of at least 30 consecutive wins

YTD

I've won 6 singles titels + 2 doubles titles + 3 mixed doubles titles
I've obtained a 34-1 record in singles & 25-0 in doubles and currently have a 30 win streak.

PREDICTIONS

In my life so far predicting in tennis, i've been 88% right, since 1990. Over 2000 matches I've predicted and even journalist ask me what my picks are.

The number of tournaments you've won says nothing about your tennis knowledge.

You said Davenport had double the power of Seles. You said Seles was good because of her excessive grunts. And, I say you are an idiot.

Ova
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:28 PM
Where is the poll option for "I don't think either Williams sister is that great" ?

:devil::devil::devil::devil:

die_wahrheit
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:29 PM
If Serena wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Seles?
If Venus wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Henin?
If Venus wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Hingis? I put this one because a considerable amount of people said Hingis was still greater due to variety of slams and her other accomplishments. So, will this slam finally end the argument?

Yes,
Yes,
Of course.

Sure thing.

Seles has done nothing at Wimbledon. We all know that Wimbledon is more important than others.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:29 PM
The number of tournaments you've won says nothing about your tennis knowledge.

You said Davenport had double the power of Seles. You said Seles was good because of her excessive grunts. And, I say you are an idiot.

It says nothing about my tennis knowledge. I have talked with almost any greatest tennis champion, at the women's and men's side. I have a couple players that are close friends of mine, and I get to know new ones everyday.

Davenport's fastest strokes are at 101 mph and serves at 120 mph. Seles is at 95 mph and 115 mph.

And btw ESPN and other channels would say the same and they have more knowledge than me.

But I'm not gonna have a argument-less discussion with a nobody.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:31 PM
Where is the poll option for "I don't think either Williams sister is that great" ?

:devil::devil::devil::devil:

How is Hingis's crack-house oops cocaine-house doing? :devil: :haha:

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:32 PM
I agree that Serena is greater then Seles.

But...Hingis and Seles never played before the stabbing. The guy was saying that Hingis would have destroyed Seles regardless of the stabbing. He's wrong!

And, I don't think I said Hingis was "weak", but I said she lacked power.

For someone who was such a "weak" player, Hingis sure had great success against Seles. Hingis is 15-5 against Seles. Hingis won their first 5 matches. Ouch!

Davenport's head to head against Seles is equally devastating. Davenport is 10-3 against Seles. Davenport won 9 straight matches at one point. Ouch!

Hingis also won Wimbledon.
So, did Davenport.
Seles did not.

If Serena wins on Saturday, based on her grand slam record alone, she will be greater than Seles. She's already won Wimbledon.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:35 PM
I agree that Serena is greater then Seles.

But...Hingis and Seles never played before the stabbing. The guy was saying that Hingis would have destroyed Seles regardless of the stabbing. He's wrong!

And, I don't think I said Hingis was "weak", but I said she lacked power.

Now mate, that's not what I said. I said, she wouldn't have won 15 or 25 GS titles like a guy stated on here. She would have won some, but not all in the next 5 years.

ys
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:38 PM
Serena will be greater than Seles with a win.
Venus will be greater than Henin with a win.
Forget about Hingis. She is long out of picture..

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:38 PM
There is no way they both can be better than Seles

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:40 PM
You proved me right. You said Davenport had DOUBLE the power. 101 MPH to 95 MPH is not double. 120 MPH to 115 MPH is not double.

Instead of speaking with a "nobody", I suggest you get off WTAWorld, call Steffi, Martina, Monica, Venus, Serena, or Davenport, and go out to lunch with them - and maybe hire someone to teach you better English.

It says nothing about my tennis knowledge. I have talked with almost any greatest tennis champion, at the women's and men's side. I have a couple players that are close friends of mine, and I get to know new ones everyday.

Davenport's fastest strokes are at 101 mph and serves at 120 mph. Seles is at 95 mph and 115 mph.

And btw ESPN and other channels would say the same and they have more knowledge than me.

But I'm not gonna have a argument-less discussion with a nobody.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:40 PM
Serena will be greater than Seles with a win.
..

I don´t think so

We all know that Seles is the real GOAT of this sport

unretrofied
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:41 PM
Damn, I can't believe that many people are actually participating in a discussion as dumb and childish as this one. Ridiculous!

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:41 PM
There is no way they both can be better than Seles

One title and serena is.

ys
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:43 PM
If Serena wins, her comparisons with Seles are history. We would have to start comparing her record to BJK's one.

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:45 PM
Now mate, that's not what I said. I said, she wouldn't have won 15 or 25 GS titles like a guy stated on here. She would have won some, but not all in the next 5 years.

Someone said Seles would have stood no chance against Hingis. That is how this whole debacle started.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:51 PM
If Serena wins, her comparisons with Seles are history. We would have to start comparing her record to BJK's one.

Monica won at 19 years old what Serena has not won at 27 years old

If you think Monica was the same player after Hamburg , then you are crazy

Geisha
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:55 PM
Monica won at 19 years old what Serena has not won at 27 years old

If you think Monica was the same player after Hamburg , then you are crazy

Serena did in one match what Seles couldn't do her whole career - win a Wimbledon final.

And, right now, that's what separates them.

youizahoe
Jul 3rd, 2008, 07:59 PM
You proved me right. You said Davenport had DOUBLE the power. 101 MPH to 95 MPH is not double. 120 MPH to 115 MPH is not double.

Instead of speaking with a "nobody", I suggest you get off WTAWorld, call Steffi, Martina, Monica, Venus, Serena, or Davenport, and go out to lunch with them - and maybe hire someone to teach you better English.

Double the power, is an expression, if your English is really better than mine, you should have known.

I'm Belgian American, My english is quite fine. But hey, at least I can speak 6 languages fluently? Can you?

Volcana
Jul 3rd, 2008, 08:00 PM
Serena is one of the top ten players of all time NOW. A win just adds to that. A win wouldn't squeeze Venus into my alltime top ten, but she'd get closer.

As for Henin vs Venus, they were so close in age, the H2H is relevant. So once slams singles titles are equal ....


Subjectively, Henin was the best player on the tour for longer than Venus was. I'm not basing that on ranking. Hingis held the #1 ranking for almost three years longer than she was the best player on the tour. Her reighn as 'best player' ende at the 1999 US Open. (Which was eight month AFTER her last slam win.) The #1 ranking is a bogus meaure.

Calypso
Jul 3rd, 2008, 08:22 PM
If Serena wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Seles?
If Venus wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Henin?
If Venus wins Wimbledon 2008, will she be greater than Hingis? I put this one because a considerable amount of people said Hingis was still greater due to variety of slams and her other accomplishments. So, will this slam finally end the argument?


If Serena wins, she will be equal to Seles in singles slams won (9). Though we all know Seles really should have a lot more than *9...

If Venus wins, she'll be greater than Hingis, with the gap in singles slams starting to widen...

Tennisstar86
Jul 4th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Let's talk about my knowledge in tennis.

I Have A+ level and I'm qualified to play at the ATP. Throughout my national tennis carreer

I've won my first tournament at the age of 10
I've won 47 Singles National Titles
I've won 25 Doubles National Titles
I've had a streak of 45 unbeaten matches
I've obtained sponsorship by Nike, Wilson when I was 12
I've won over 300 matches, and had mutiple streaks of at least 30 consecutive wins

YTD

I've won 6 singles titels + 2 doubles titles + 3 mixed doubles titles
I've obtained a 34-1 record in singles & 25-0 in doubles and currently have a 30 win streak.

PREDICTIONS

In my life so far predicting in tennis, i've been 88% right, since 1990. Over 2000 matches I've predicted and even journalist ask me what my picks are.

All that and you're still an idiot.... Seles' career was on the "downslide when she got stabbed" after she had won the AO the same as she had done the previous 3 years....before going on to win the FO and the US in 93....:rolleyes:

Hingis didnt come on the scene till 95 and didnt make it past a quaterfinal till the end of 96.... thats a good 3 years.... It took davenport till 97 to make a SF....

Seles couldnt compete with Davenport/ Hingis..... even if she hadnt gotten stabbed.... even if she couldnt they didnt even factor during the time Seles missed (which would have been her peak) because of the stabbing...

Matt01
Jul 4th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Damn, I can't believe that many people are actually participating in a discussion as dumb and childish as this one. Ridiculous!


Oh, that's actually nothing too uncommon here...you probably haven't seen very much of WTA World yet ;)

Uranium
Jul 4th, 2008, 06:59 PM
I said Venus will be greater than Martina.
Venus won't be equal or greater than Henin, even thought they have the same amount of slams, Henin has 3/4 slams.
But Venus in my opinion is greater than Martina since she has more slams.

LightWarrior
Jul 4th, 2008, 07:44 PM
What a dumb poll. It doesn't work that way. Even with fewer GS titles than Seles Serena is already greater than Seles, having won ALL GS.