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View Full Version : Why Serena Williams often beats Venus Williams


pov
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:10 AM
In another thread, it was pointed out that Venus Williams can't quite get that "killer instinct" against her younger sister. I added that was due in part to her years of "mothering" her. The thing is that Serena Williams has no problem finding that "I'll take you out" vibe against Venus. She gives no quarter as these comments make clear:

Q. Do you think you and Venus can become No. 1 and 2 again? Is that still your target?
SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, my target is obviously to be the best in my sport. I don't really know what her target is.
---
Q. The Bryan brothers focus on tennis, but they have a sense of knowing what the next move is. Do you have the sense with Venus, ESP, or is it more clunky?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I think I do have that sense, but just because I've practiced against her so much and I know her game and I watch her game and I kind of know what's going on. You know, she's an opponent. You scout your opponents.
---
Q. Do you remember when she beat you here for the first time? You were none too happy. She put her arm around you and consoled you.
SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, I hate to lose.
---
Q. Does it hurt you more to lose to Venus than to others, or does it hurt less?
SERENA WILLIAMS: It definitely hurts less to lose to her. I mean, I'll be bitter, but at the end of the day it's a lot easier to losing to someone that I feel I should normally beat.
---
Q. Do you see your sister as the favorite for this tournament now?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I would never sit here and say she's the favorite when I'm still in the draw. What are you on?

Q. The oddsmakers are 11‑5, 13‑5. She is the favorite slightly.
SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, well, she won last year. Maybe that has something to do with it. But I'm not going to sit here and say she's the favorite when I'm still in the tournament. That's not me. I always believe that I'm the favorite. Even if I'm not the favorite, I'm always going to believe that I am.

ladydiana
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:15 AM
That was true 5 years ago, but I think both sisters have matured and are past that now.

Venus will have no problem playing Serena on Saturday.

Stamp Paid
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:30 AM
Yes, the serve and forehand have nothing to do with it...

pov
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:33 AM
That was true 5 years ago, but I think both sisters have matured and are past that now.
Those comments are from today's interview

virtue05
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:34 AM
I do not think there will be a problem with Venus beating Serena either, in my opinion, it is Venus's time. I think she is older and wiser and realizes that the opportunities will not last forever. I look for Venus to go on a dominant run, if she can stay healthy. Her health has always been her problem after Wimbledon. I just have a feeling that this is Venus's time.

pov
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:34 AM
Yes, the serve and forehand have nothing to do with it...
You got it. Venus Williams has a more powerful serve and forehand than Serena Williams.

Uranium
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:37 AM
Serena is very arrogant:lol:
But that's good to see in a player, shows that they have confidence in themselves, but i want Venus to win:p

jbeacinu
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:38 AM
idk who deserves to win more :(
probably venus

comfortably.numb
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:39 AM
One day people will accept the fact that Serena was, is, and always will be better than Venus. This "lack of killer instict" garbage is nothing more than delusion used by those who refuse to see what's right in front of them. Serena defeated Venus in all those finals because she was the better player in those matches. Same for Venus in the huge matches she won. I don't see Serena fans here making excuses for those times Venus beat Serena. It seems that bitterness runs deep in Venus's fanbase and that's too bad.

tennisIlove09
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:44 AM
They both do everything so well. On grass, I think Venus is a touch better at everything. Movement, serving, net play ... the key things that make a winning combo on grass. To me, Serena would have to play the match of her life (like 2002) to beat Venus.

In The Zone
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:47 AM
Venus doesn't have that killer instinct against anyone. :confused:

The only times I have ever seen her with fire in her eyes, like she wanted to rip someone apart limb by limb was against Sharapova 2x at Wimbledon. All the other matches, it was just tennis. Amazing tennis, but Venus isn't cut-throat. But she won 6 slams, and soon to be 7 by not being cut-throat. Not something I would complain about.

Tennisstar86
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:47 AM
well I think thats why the matches in 2002 werent very close..... but even to say if she had it she still would have only factored in the Wimbledon matches IMO...

court70
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:05 AM
Let's not forget that they have one more match to play before we start saying they will be in the final.

weforvee
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:10 AM
One day people will accept the fact that Serena was, is, and always will be better than Venus. This "lack of killer instict" garbage is nothing more than delusion used by those who refuse to see what's right in front of them. Serena defeated Venus in all those finals because she was the better player in those matches. Same for Venus in the huge matches she won. I don't see Serena fans here making excuses for those times Venus beat Serena. It seems that bitterness runs deep in Venus's fanbase and that's too bad.

If you think their sisterly bond hasn't affected either of them at one time or another then you are delusional.
THE 00 Wimby Semi and 02 French final come to mind. In the former Serena plays the best up until the semi then folds when facing Vee - you don't think Serena already accomplishing Papa Williams "prophecy" winning a slam could deny Venus her opportunity to win her 1st. In the latter, Venus is up 4 to 1 in slams while during her run Serena was slumping - you think Venus went out and gave it her all for that French final?
And as for Serena winning all their slam finals because she was the better player, revisted Wimby 03 - It was Venus that was on fire until her abdominal tear halted her in her tracks - not Serena.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:15 AM
The reason Serena has beaten Venus is because she is just a better player! No mental crap involved. Serena's game is better. Her serve is BETTER! Her forehand is BETTER! Hell even her backhand is better, with the way Venus hits it now. Venus has the better movement/court coverage and volleys but Serena is the better fighter. Hence why Serena is better than Venus. Also, Serena is more willing to change up her game.

AcesHigh
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:21 AM
Serena WAS significantly better and has been this year. I don't believe that Serena is always better than Venus b/c she definitely wasn't for the second half of last year IMO and she has lost much of the physical prowess that gave her domination in 2002-2003. They are really close in talent level and if Venus plays to her ability, I think she's a better player than Serena at the moment. The only problem is Venus is so much more inconsistent and her techinique is a lot worse than Serena's. IN Bangalore neither one played well, but VEnus broke down while Serena played well in the clutch. That's the main difference right now is that SErena's technique is solid so she can rely on it when she needs it most. Venus is a fighter but her game will not always coincide with her heart and fight.

And to say that VEnus doesn't have a killer instinct is complete BS. Venus has been wanting to win BADLY against Serena ever since AO 2003. She just doesn't scream and fist pump as much as Serena. Serena is the ultimate fighter on tour, I believe that.. but Venus just doesn't show it outwardly. Anyone who watched Wimbledon 2003 or Wimbledon 2005(esp. the final) and says Venus has no fight or killer instinct is blind.

pov
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:26 AM
The reason Serena has beaten Venus is because she is just a better player! No mental crap involved. Serena's game is better. Her serve is BETTER! Her forehand is BETTER! Hell even her backhand is better, with the way Venus hits it now. Venus has the better movement/court coverage and volleys but Serena is the better fighter. Hence why Serena is better than Venus. Also, Serena is more willing to change up her game.
IMO Venus Williams is the better player - better movement, better strokes, more power, just about any facet. Except the mental game. Serena Williams has that extra mental notch - what you call "better fighter" Hilarious that you say that while claiming "no mental crap involved"

pov
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:29 AM
And to say that VEnus doesn't have a killer instinct is complete BS. Venus has been wanting to win BADLY against Serena ever since AO 2003. She just doesn't scream and fist pump as much as Serena. Serena is the ultimate fighter on tour, I believe that.. but Venus just doesn't show it outwardly. Anyone who watched Wimbledon 2003 or Wimbledon 2005(esp. the final) and says Venus has no fight or killer instinct is blind.

Consciously, of course Venus wants to win against Serena. On deeper levels I think she has a very hard time calling that "killer instinct" against her sister. To me, it's really plain.

Oh and there have been periods where Serena is playing better. However I consider Venus to be the better player.

AcesHigh
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:32 AM
Consciously, of course Venus wants to win against Serena. On deeper levels I think she has a very hard time calling that "killer instinct" against her sister. To me, it's really plain.

Oh and there have been periods where Serena is playing better. However I consider Venus to be the better player.

Venus is definitely not the better player. SErena has teh better serve, better technique, better forehand, better variety, better mental toughness and a backhand that's almost as good.

And did you watch their matches at Miami 2005 or USO 2005?

Tennisstar86
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:33 AM
The reason Serena has beaten Venus is because she is just a better player! No mental crap involved. Serena's game is better. Her serve is BETTER! Her forehand is BETTER! Hell even her backhand is better, with the way Venus hits it now. Venus has the better movement/court coverage and volleys but Serena is the better fighter. Hence why Serena is better than Venus. Also, Serena is more willing to change up her game.

I have to disagree here... One Fire Venus is better... Serena is just more consistant... especially the way they have been playing lately....Been so long since ive seen Serena's 2002 game... she puts to much spin etc on it now....hits to the center of the court more....IMO....

tennisIlove09
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:36 AM
Venus is definitely not the better player. SErena has teh better serve, better technique, better forehand, better variety, better mental toughness and a backhand that's almost as good.

And did you watch their matches at Miami 2005 or USO 2005?

Serena's serve is better in terms of placement. Speed goes to Venus. And you cant even say Serena's second serve is better anymore, because her second serve is just as much of a liablility in today's game as Venus.
Serena's forehand breaks down JUST as much as Venus, and Venus' backhand has always been more stellar than Serena's. More variety? What matches are you watching? Venus has much better feel at net and has a more all court game. Most of the time Serena looks very uncomfortable at the net.

Miami 05: the first set Venus was on FIRE.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:37 AM
Re: Why Serena Williams often beats Venus Williams

I think it's pretty simple.

I've said it before, but...

Venus' game was built to beat all the other players on the tour.

Serena's game was built to beat Venus. Plain and simple.

While Venus was out there battling the other girls and learning hard lessons with GI-NORMOUS expectations on her, Serena was (for the most part) flying under the radar, practicing on the regular with Vee, learning from Vee's mistakes, shoring up her own game in areas she believed Vee's game was weak, ie, serve & forehand, overall stroke production.

For all those that know the computer programing process, Vee was the Williams BETA test. Serena was the final "Release" version. ;)

Serena knew(based many of her statements) that, if she can beat Venus, she can beat anyone. Now, whether that statement is true or not is a matter of opinion, but I'm just saying that's Serena mind set. Her game evolved with BEATING VENUS in mind.

Il Primo!
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:41 AM
Venus's game is more effective than Serena's on fast hardcourt and grass.

If you don't believe me, just check on the stats (Vee has the best of the whole tour in BOTH Flushing and SW19)

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:45 AM
Serena's serve is better in terms of placement. Speed goes to Venus. And you cant even say Serena's second serve is better anymore, because her second serve is just as much of a liablility in today's game as Venus.
Serena's forehand breaks down JUST as much as Venus, and Venus' backhand has always been more stellar than Serena's. More variety? What matches are you watching? Venus has much better feel at net and has a more all court game. Most of the time Serena looks very uncomfortable at the net.

Miami 05: the first set Venus was on FIRE.

Serena is able to hit the lobs. She will actually hit a decent slice in the middle of the rally. She will come out with drop shots. With Venus it is the same thing almost all the time. Serena will hit her shots hard but can also come up with some great angles.

Venus' backhand hasn't been the shot it once was for a very long time. Serena's serve is better. Even her second serve. Yes Serena's second serve isn't as good as it used to be but it is still less attackable than Venus'. Serena's first serve is still better. Venus hits big but the placement is a problem. Against a good returner they can just block the ball back into play.

I'll leave it to Lindsay Davenport to finally end who is the better player. When asked by Andrew Castle what tactics she would use against Serena, Lindsay said there wasn't really any tactics to use. When Serena plays her best she is near impossible to beat. When asked the same question today by Simon Reed Lindsay said that she would always zone in to the middle of the court and not let Venus run. She also says that Venus' second serve is a liability. From someone who has played both sisters in big time matches and when they were playing their best, to basically say there aren't any tactics to playing against Serena and that she is near impossible to beat when at her best and that she is the best ever at her best, I think it is pretty clear that Serena is the better player. No matter how Venus fans try to spin it, the reason Venus lost to Serena was because Serena was better. Hell even their dad said Serena is the better player.

IF they both make the final and if Venus beats Serena, then Venus will be too good and will be the better player on Saturday. However, for Venus fans to basically put Serena's wins due to some mental block Venus has against Serena is just such :bs:

Tennisstar86
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:49 AM
Serena's serve is better in terms of placement. Speed goes to Venus. And you cant even say Serena's second serve is better anymore, because her second serve is just as much of a liablility in today's game as Venus.
Serena's forehand breaks down JUST as much as Venus, and Venus' backhand has always been more stellar than Serena's. More variety? What matches are you watching? Venus has much better feel at net and has a more all court game. Most of the time Serena looks very uncomfortable at the net.

Miami 05: the first set Venus was on FIRE.

I know...I use to think Serena was good up at net, but after watching her matches this year at Wimbledon she looks lost and confused everytime she was up there and dinks her volleys into the open court.... Whereas Venus net game has become amazing....

Tennisstar86
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:54 AM
Serena is able to hit the lobs. She will actually hit a decent slice in the middle of the rally. She will come out with drop shots. With Venus it is the same thing almost all the time. Serena will hit her shots hard but can also come up with some great angles.

Venus' backhand hasn't been the shot it once was for a very long time. Serena's serve is better. Even her second serve. Yes Serena's second serve isn't as good as it used to be but it is still less attackable than Venus'. Serena's first serve is still better. Venus hits big but the placement is a problem. Against a good returner they can just block the ball back into play.

I'll leave it to Lindsay Davenport to finally end who is the better player. When asked by Andrew Castle what tactics she would use against Serena, Lindsay said there wasn't really any tactics to use. When Serena plays her best she is near impossible to beat. When asked the same question today by Simon Reed Lindsay said that she would always zone in to the middle of the court and not let Venus run. She also says that Venus' second serve is a liability. From someone who has played both sisters in big time matches and when they were playing their best, to basically say there aren't any tactics to playing against Serena and that she is near impossible to beat when at her best and that she is the best ever at her best, I think it is pretty clear that Serena is the better player. No matter how Venus fans try to spin it, the reason Venus lost to Serena was because Serena was better. Hell even their dad said Serena is the better player.

IF they both make the final and if Venus beats Serena, then Venus will be too good and will be the better player on Saturday. However, for Venus fans to basically put Serena's wins due to some mental block Venus has against Serena is just such :bs:

Also not true.... Have you been watching Venus serve this tourny.... Theirs no blocking back her outwide slices..... or the bombs that hit the tee....

And as for Serena's Hot mess slice she throws in there randomly just to say that she can hit it...:help:

moby
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:55 AM
Hell even their dad said Serena is the better player.He also said some time after that comment that, at her best, Venus is unbeatable.

Apoleb
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:56 AM
Serena's serve is better in terms of placement. Speed goes to Venus. And you cant even say Serena's second serve is better anymore, because her second serve is just as much of a liablility in today's game as Venus.

*dead*

Lay down the pipe. Venus' second serve is a mess and is arguably her biggest weakness. Serena's second serve is arguably the best in the game.

supergrunt
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:56 AM
Serena has more variety and can improvise. That is really it.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:57 AM
Also not true.... Have you been watching Venus serve this tourny.... Theirs no blocking back her outwide slices..... or the bombs that hit the tee....

And as for Serena's Hot mess slice she throws in there randomly just to say that she can hit it...:help:

It worked very well against Mattek and she ended it with a gorgeous drop shot. It also worked will when she used it against Agnieska. Obviously it's not a shot she should use to often but it gives the player a different look.

Venus' slice serve is very good, but more often than not she just goes for power. Against Morigami last year, those serves were coming back (especially in the first set) because she wasn't placing them well. That's one problem in her game, she mostly goes for power and occassionally goes for the placement.

SV_Fan
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:03 AM
Venus isnt as intense as serena. I would love for her to be more emotional and intense not so clijsters quiet.

supergrunt
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:05 AM
I just want to add that when Venus is on Serena has no chance :p .

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:07 AM
Serena's serve is better in terms of placement. Speed goes to Venus. And you cant even say Serena's second serve is better anymore, because her second serve is just as much of a liablility in today's game as Venus.
Serena's forehand breaks down JUST as much as Venus, and Venus' backhand has always been more stellar than Serena's. More variety? What matches are you watching? Venus has much better feel at net and has a more all court game. Most of the time Serena looks very uncomfortable at the net.

Miami 05: the first set Venus was on FIRE.

to say serena's second serve is as much a liability as venus' :spit: i love them both dearly but take venus off of grass and her serve breaks down far too quickly...any commentator would tell you serena has THE best serve on tour because it the least likely part of her game to break down...she's never gonna hit you with a flurry of dfs like venus can...

venus' slice 2nd serve is perfect for grass so she grooves it on grass and becomes a weapon...on other surfaces, as you can see, it becomes a liability and she therefore gets a whole lot of dfs...it's why she's easier to break on other surfaces except grass....

serena on the other hand, can bomb it, slice it or kick it...it's why she's hard to break on all surfaces...even on crappy days where her groundies are spraying left right and centre, her serve still holds up....her QF at RG last year where her game was just wack saw jh only break her twice...4th rd and QF at wimbledon last year: couldn't do much running or hitting off the ground but her serve kept her in those matches...

i've had the privilege of listening to different commentators on different channels commentating on both sisters and they both say if it's one thing that separates the sisters is the fact that serena has the best serve technique and is less likely to break down....

moby
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:08 AM
Serena has more variety and can improvise. That is really it.And a better serve. And more consistency. Although if Venus is zoning, she serves as hard, hits the ball harder off the ground, and comes in to net with full confidence. All the consistency and variety in the world cannot help Serena on those days.

Ultimately it comes down to Serena's better technique. Her game doesn't fall apart like Venus's does, so she has fewer off days when it matters.

This is why all that talk about "at her best..." is ridiculous, because most rational people would take Serena's game over Venus's.

vwfan
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:20 AM
I think it's pretty simple.

I've said it before, but...

Venus' game was built to beat all the other players on the tour.

Serena's game was built to beat Venus. Plain and simple.

While Venus was out there battling the other girls and learning hard lessons with GI-NORMOUS expectations on her, Serena was (for the most part) flying under the radar, practicing on the regular with Vee, learning from Vee's mistakes, shoring up her own game in areas she believed Vee's game was weak, ie, serve & forehand, overall stroke production.

For all those that know the computer programing process, Vee was the Williams BETA test. Serena was the final "Release" version. ;)

Serena knew(based many of her statements) that, if she can beat Venus, she can beat anyone. Now, I whether that statement is true or not is a matter of opinion, but I'm just saying that's Serena mind set. Her game evolved with BEATING VENUS in mind.I completely agree with you. If Serena had not been Venus' sister and able to study up close and practice time and again against Venus, her game would never have evolved to the competitive level that it reached in 2002-3. Oh, and Venus would have 11 slams and 6 Wimbledon titles if Serena were any other player and hadn't had the advantage of studying up close.

But that is water under the bridge.

If ever there was a time for her to "take it to her little sis" then the Wimbledon final (assuming they both get there) is the time and the place.

Apoleb
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:27 AM
And a better serve. And more consistency. Although if Venus is zoning, she serves as hard, hits the ball harder off the ground, and comes in to net with full confidence. All the consistency and variety in the world cannot help Serena on those days.

Ultimately it comes down to Serena's better technique. Her game doesn't fall apart like Venus's does, so she has fewer off days when it matters.

This is why all that talk about "at her best..." is ridiculous, because most rational people would take Serena's game over Venus's.

I would agree about Serena's game being easily superior to Venus' if we were talking from 2003 and before. But since at least last year, Serena's footwork has been for the large part quite bad, and imo it continues to be so even in this Wimbledon. She's not able to generate the power she used to during rallys and is very error prone because of clumsy footwork. (Justine completely exposed her footwork at the USO and FO). Apparently people have been so amazed by her performance today, but for me as soon as she was taken into rallys by Radwanska, she seemed in trouble. Her serve and return are still top notch, but I think anyone who could absorb her power on those two shots and bring her into rallys has a decent shot. I think Venus will be able to do that on Saturday. (footwork on grass will be even more important).

AkademiQ
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:29 AM
Serena's a better player and therefore champion has been next to her name a lot more than it has Venus.

supergrunt
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:31 AM
I would agree about Serena's game being easily superior to Venus' if we were talking from 2003 and before. But since at least last year, Serena's footwork has been for the large part quite bad, and imo it continues to be so even in this Wimbledon. She's not able to generate the power she used to during rallys and is very error prone becomes of clumsy footwork. (Justine completely exposed her footwork at the USO and FO). Apparently people have been so amazed by her performance today, but for me as soon as she was taken into rallys by Radwanska, she seemed in trouble. Her serve and return are still top notch, but I think anyone who could absorb her power on those two shots and bring her into rallys has a decent shot. I think Venus will be able to do that on Saturday.

I suggest you watch Serena's match against Henin this year. She was sharp in the rallies hitting with depth and consistency. She can still so that. And today? She was in control of 80% of the rallies.

Brooklyn90
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:31 AM
Serena :lol: "What are you on"

Apoleb
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:35 AM
I suggest you watch Serena's match against Henin this year. She was sharp in the rallies hitting with depth and consistency. She can still so that. And today? She was in control of 80% of the rallies.

How do you think Radwanska got 4 games in the first set with no serve and no pace on her shots and with Serena serving bombs? Whenever they got into the rallys, they were almost on equal footing, and it ended up with a Serena error. I watched the first 4 games of the second set, and Serena definitely improved her movement but still not much imo. SHe didn't need to because her serve was just huge, Rad made a few more errors in the execution and the second serve was sitting up perfectly.

As for the Justine-Serena match, I watched the highlights, and almost all of it is Justine errors. :help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdBO-08f7jM

Tennisstar86
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:58 AM
Serena's a better player and therefore champion has been next to her name a lot more than it has Venus.

you do know if Venus wins her 5th Wimbledon she'll have 7 GS titles right and shes got more titles in general over Serena right? just checking.....

AkademiQ
Jul 2nd, 2008, 04:07 AM
you do know if Venus wins her 5th Wimbledon she'll have 7 GS titles right and shes got more titles in general over Serena right? just checking.....

Let's not deal with ifs and deal with what's written in stone. Serena has been and is the better player. Thanks.

kwilliams
Jul 2nd, 2008, 04:32 AM
The head to head is at 8-7. That pretty much sums it up for me. Serena is a slightly better player. I hope they both make it to the finals and the head to head is evened there. If Venus can even the head to head it will be on grass.

Their head to head in slam finals 1-5 does indicate that Venus doesn't quite have the killer instinct that Serena has. That's not to say that she has no killer instinct but she's not as ferocious as Serena and whatever ferocity she does have wanes a little when Serena is on the other side of the net.

However it's been five years since they last played each other in a slam final in that time their head to head is 2-1 in favour of Venus and that match in Bangalore was one tough affair. Venus knows she could've won that Wimbledon final in 2003. I hope she will fight just as hard as Serena if they do both make the finals.

Serenidad.
Jul 2nd, 2008, 04:38 AM
How is Serena arrogant? To me Serena is the favorite against Venus on any surface.

Stamp Paid
Jul 2nd, 2008, 05:24 AM
How do you think Radwanska got 4 games in the first set with no serve and no pace on her shots and with Serena serving bombs? Whenever they got into the rallys, they were almost on equal footing, and it ended up with a Serena error. I watched the first 4 games of the second set, and Serena definitely improved her movement but still not much imo. SHe didn't need to because her serve was just huge, Rad made a few more errors in the execution and the second serve was sitting up perfectly.

As for the Justine-Serena match, I watched the highlights, and almost all of it is Justine errors. :help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdBO-08f7jMThose are bad highlights. Serena served, returned, and more importantly moved better than any match she played against Ju in 2007. She moved better in Miami than she is now at Wimbledon. Ju could have made it more competitive, but Serena finally was able to rise to the occasion against her.

Jeff
Jul 2nd, 2008, 06:37 AM
Well, I'm only going to focus on topic about Serena's mental edge over Venus. For those of you who say that is not the case, well I disagree. Serena definitely has had that "I really want to beat her" attitude. While Venus wants to win, she always has that "Well I want to play well, but I also want to see her play well and will be happy for her if she wins." The only time I can recall seeing Venus have that killer instinct look when playing Serena, was their match in Miami in 2005. Her eyes at match point were the one and only time I have seen Venus have that look against Serena :p

Serena is the more complete player and has the edge in more ways than mentality, except maybe Wimbledon but we'll have to wait and see if they get there. But, no doubt Serena has the mental edge on any day.

Destiny
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:37 AM
Go William's :woohoo:

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2008, 09:05 AM
battle is onn!!

Cp6uja
Jul 2nd, 2008, 09:36 AM
No mistery in sisters h2h... actualy better player on the day always wins. Before 2002 since younger Serena is still "upcoming player" in comparation with already established Venus and between 2002 and 2003 Serena dominated in world tour ahead all other players including her older sister:

Venus 7-6(4) 6-1 , 1998 - AUSTRALIAN OPEN
Venus 6-4 6-2 , 1998 - ROME
Venus 6-1 4-6 6-4 , 1999 - MIAMI
Serena 6-1 3-6 6-3 , 1999 - GS CUP
Venus 6-2 7-6(3) , 2000 - WIMBLEDON
Venus 6-2 6-4 , 2001 - US OPEN
------------------------------------------
Serena 6-2 6-2 , 2002 - MIAMI
Serena 7-5 6-3 , 2002 - FRENCH OPEN
Serena 7-6(4) 6-3 , 2002 - WIMBLEDON
Serena 6-4 6-3 , 2002 - US OPEN
Serena 7-6(4) 3-6 6-4 , 2003 - AUSTRALIAN OPEN
Serena 4-6 6-4 6-2 , 2003 - WIMBLEDON
------------------------------------------
Venus 6-1 7-6(8) , 2005 - MIAMI
Venus 7-6(5) 6-2 , 2005 - US OPEN
Serena 6-3 3-6 7-6(4) , 2008 - BANGALORE


Talking about upcoming final i give to both sisters same 50% chances. Grass is only surface where Venus is better player than Serena, but Ree is in better shape player this season and which is most important she needs to win just one set to win whole match, because Venus in last two seasons is not able anymore to play 3rd set on same level (unlike Serena). So my final prediction is:

Venus in two - 40%
Serena in three - 30%
Serena in two - 20%
Venus in three - 10%

So Serena have "fitnes" edge on Venus, not "mental" (reason why she won 4 of theirs 5 three-seters so far) which is even more case now in 2008 than in past! Venus WTA tour 3-setters h2h vs TOP10 is just 1 win of 8 matches since 2007 (in same period Serena have good 3-set 6-1 h2h record vs TOP10). So Venus "only" advantage is fact that she is better grasscourt player, and nothing else ;).

Huntress55
Jul 2nd, 2008, 09:56 AM
Oh man I hope its not the case if its an all Williams final!

vesanto
Jul 2nd, 2008, 11:24 AM
That interview! :help::tape:
Thank you for me reminding me why I keep on liking your sister!

I admit that Serena is a better player than Venus, I believe that Venus had potential to be much better than she is but I am fine with the way she is. People tend to say Venus is a better grass player and her style indeed fits the surface, especially the serve. However, I believe Serena is the big favourite to win the tournament as she is very strong on grass too and seems quite determined. In an all Williams final, she would probably come on top because of all the things envolved, namely the mental edgness over Venus.

However, as they have been getting older, we can notice that the "respect" between each other has been decreasing, in the sense that I wouldn't be too surprised (in the case they both reach the final) if this would turn into the bitchiest final between them. I would love Venus to beat Serena and I would die in the other case around so I guess if that match-up really happens I better not see the match.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 2nd, 2008, 11:48 AM
I would agree about Serena's game being easily superior to Venus' if we were talking from 2003 and before. But since at least last year, Serena's footwork has been for the large part quite bad, and imo it continues to be so even in this Wimbledon. She's not able to generate the power she used to during rallys and is very error prone because of clumsy footwork. (Justine completely exposed her footwork at the USO and FO). Apparently people have been so amazed by her performance today, but for me as soon as she was taken into rallys by Radwanska, she seemed in trouble. Her serve and return are still top notch, but I think anyone who could absorb her power on those two shots and bring her into rallys has a decent shot. I think Venus will be able to do that on Saturday. (footwork on grass will be even more important).

you dislike serena so much you can't even give her credit :haha: she won the majority of rallies but then again...this is you we are talking about...so i don't expect you to ever credit serena...and big whoop jh exposing poor footwork from big serena at us open last year :o

Matt01
Jul 2nd, 2008, 11:53 AM
you dislike serena so much you can't even give her credit :haha:


Read his post again. Apoleb gives credit where credit is due :worship:

blamoh
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:23 PM
I am a fan of the sisters. I think serena is a bad girl or sister.
Do you know what she does to Venus if she is beaten by her. if
she has the nerve to say what she said in her press conference, then
I believe she did more than this.
serena was the one who gave the press people the wapon to accuse
Richard of match fixing between the two.
she cried after the 2000 wimbledom semi-final defeat to venus. many
people considered her to be the favourite that year after winning usopen
in late 1999. That was not the case. Venus had beaten her flat that day.
I am not liking the williams final again because of serena attitude.

tennisIlove09
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:28 PM
I think it became a mental issue for Venus after the 2001 US Open. As soon as the match was over, and Venus defended her US Open title, she went to Serena at the net and said "This doesn't even feel like a win ..."

She just beats her sister to win a Slam, and it doesn't feel like a win? What happens in the next two matches they played? Venus plays two of the worst matches in her career, IMO. It totally became a mental block.

Destiny
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:37 PM
Venus needs to gain the same attitude as Serena when they play

Apoleb
Jul 2nd, 2008, 02:49 PM
you dislike serena so much you can't even give her credit :haha: she won the majority of rallies but then again...this is you we are talking about...so i don't expect you to ever credit serena...and big whoop jh exposing poor footwork from big serena at us open last year :o

I'm judging it like I see it. You're free to interpret that the way you want. I'm not losing sleep over it.

Those are bad highlights. Serena served, returned, and more importantly moved better than any match she played against Ju in 2007. She moved better in Miami than she is now at Wimbledon. Ju could have made it more competitive, but Serena finally was able to rise to the occasion against her.

OK I probably should check the full match out. In any case, I'm not saying that this how Serena has been always playing. There have been exception where her footwork was good, but for the large part (and including this Wimby), it hasn't been good.

sweetpeas
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:11 PM
Let's not forget that they have one more match to play before we start saying they will be in the final.

That"s what im talking about!They say Serena arrogant..Ha ha...

sweetpeas
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:15 PM
think serena is a bad girl or sister.
Do you know what she does to Venus if she is beaten by her. if
she has the nerve to say what she said in her press conference, then
I believe she did more than this.
serena was the one who gave the press people the wapon to accuse
Richard of match fixing between the two.
she cried after the 2000 wimbledom semi-final defeat to venus. many
people considered her to be the favourite that year after winning usopen
in late 1999. That was not the case. Venus had beaten her flat that day.
I am not liking the williams final again because of serena attitude.

She cry because she doubled fault..Please....You don"t like Serena,period.Stop lieing to yourself..

SAEKeithSerena
Jul 2nd, 2008, 03:33 PM
didn't Serena beat her in a TIEBREAK in Bangalore? expect a VERY close match, if they meet.

V's a star
Jul 2nd, 2008, 05:16 PM
Serena def has the mental edge. Venus just needs to keep her UF errors down. in those horrible finals her shots just didnt make sense cuz of her mental problems playing Serena. I remember in there 02 USO final Venus made 11 winners to 33 ERRORS thats just not how she plays against other ppl in finals. and she had blisters on her hands and feet lol.

But i hope for the best. Im going to die on saturday, jus to intense :tape:

soomaal
Jul 2nd, 2008, 05:36 PM
Serena only won cuz Venus let her, with Vee being such a good sister and all. :p

But no more of that nonsense it's time for revenge now for Vee and all her fans. :devil:

blamoh
Jul 2nd, 2008, 06:02 PM
think serena is a bad girl or sister.
Do you know what she does to Venus if she is beaten by her. if
she has the nerve to say what she said in her press conference, then
I believe she did more than this.
serena was the one who gave the press people the wapon to accuse
Richard of match fixing between the two.
she cried after the 2000 wimbledom semi-final defeat to venus. many
people considered her to be the favourite that year after winning usopen
in late 1999. That was not the case. Venus had beaten her flat that day.
I am not liking the williams final again because of serena attitude.

She cry because she doubled fault..Please....You don"t like Serena,period.Stop lieing to yourself..
Those two girls are compound. anyone who separates them
is not thinking well. I wish you see the person whom you
are talking. I like serena the same way I like Venus.
Her attitude is the only problem I have with her.

bandabou
Jul 2nd, 2008, 07:43 PM
Nice!! It's good..even more intense than Bangalore??

TSequoia01
Jul 2nd, 2008, 08:26 PM
I have watched them both and admire both. At their best, Serena is above Venus but Serena has not been at her best for a long time and may never be again. Venus has held up better, while lil sis has grown above her fighting weight lets say. I truly believe right now Venus could defeat Serena. Serena still has that serve but off the ground, I would give the edge to Venus. Venus's serve is now a consistent weapon and her forehand is the best it has ever been.

slamchamp
Jul 2nd, 2008, 09:55 PM
"SERENA WILLIAMS: I would never sit here and say she's the favorite when I'm still in the draw. What are you on?"
:haha:

RVD
Jul 2nd, 2008, 10:21 PM
LOVED this part:Q. Do you see your sister as the favorite for this tournament now?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I would never sit here and say she's the favorite when I'm still in the draw. What are you on?
:haha: Serena is so honest and straight forward. :worship:

Threadwise:
I agree with the poster who said that Serena beats Venus simply because she's the better player. :shrug:
Venus didn't have a problem kicking Serena's azz during the early years, so why would she now or even before?

Much to do about nothing, IMHO.
Just a ridiculous fantasy that people have who can't accept the fact that Serena is a damn good tennis player and champion. :rolleyes:

b_o_r
Jul 2nd, 2008, 10:24 PM
Those who are using the "little sister syndrome" as an excuse for Venus failings are calling Venus a mental midget, which isn't true. What has been the story of Venus career? Inconsistency Yeah Venus moves better, she hits deeper, she hits harder and faster, and all that jazz but Serena knows what everyone else knows--apply pressure to any part of Venus game and her technique falls apart.

Doublefist is spot on in his assesment of the Sisters. Serena's game is designed to beat Venus. She returns Venus 1st and 2nd serves with interest, she changes the pace of her shots to cause errors off Venus forehand. Serena places her serve so well that not even Venus can use her reach to return them correctly. Serena gets a enough kick off her second serve so that Venus can't hit all out winners on them. Serena is way to familiar with Venus's game which forces Venus to have to play very good tennis (or Serena level has to drop) for Venus to get the victory.

RVD
Jul 2nd, 2008, 10:29 PM
Those who are using the "little sister syndrome" as an excuse for Venus failings are calling Venus a mental midget, which isn't true. What has been the story of Venus career? Inconsistency Yeah Venus moves better, she hits deeper, she hits harder and faster, and all that jazz but Serena knows what everyone else knows--apply pressure to any part of Venus game and her technique falls apart.

Doublefist is spot on in his assesment of the Sisters. Serena's game is designed to beat Venus. She returns Venus 1st and 2nd serves with interest, she changes the pace of her shots to cause errors off Venus forehand. Serena places her serve so well that not even Venus can use her reach to return them correctly. Serena gets a enough kick off her second serve so that Venus can't hit all out winners on them. Serena is way to familiar with Venus's game which forces Venus to have to play very good tennis (or Serena level has to drop) for Venus to get the victory.Spot on.

Add to that the fact that Serena's approach to tennis is completely different, as both sisters have informed us time and time again.
Serena goes out there with idea that she will mangle her opponent...or destroy them from the get go. Whereas Venus prefers to whittle down the opponent, then go for the win. This probably explains why Venus loses to some unknowns or lower ranked players as well, when she's a little bit off.

Honestly, where is the argument?
The better player wins more often, and is more consistent, regardless of extraneous excuses, are reasoning.