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*W*
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:48 AM
Serena's on the list...."The Black List"

http://i29.tinypic.com/2rwx8x0.jpg

The always caring and concerned Serena Williams contributes to "The Black List." “The Black List” is a documentary which seeks to bury the negative weight of the term by allowing African-Americans to provide an up-to-the-minute answer to the grim origins of “blacklist.” In a film that works as series of living portraits, twenty-five prominent African Americans of various professions, disciplines and backgrounds offer their own stories and insights on the struggles, triumphs and joys of black life in this country and manage to re-define “blacklist” for a new century in the process.

It is comprised of an HBO documentary film, a museum exhibition of photographic portraits, a forthcoming book of those photographs and a national interactive, curriculum-based educational program. The film is presented as a series of vignettes – a kind of living portraiture – in which the subjects address the camera directly as they tell their stories.

Timothy Greenfield-Sanders directed the film in collaboration with Elvis Mitchell who conducted the interviews. Mitchell is never seen on camera or heard, thus allowing the subjects’ own voices to remain the focus. "The Black List" film premieres on HBO August 25th. Each compelling interview serves as a potent illustration of empowerment in the face of unique limitations and broader obstacles. For more information, visit www.blacklistproject.com

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:56 AM
what is that thing on her head lol!

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:58 AM
She looks hot there.

Watching
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:58 AM
Hair you retard.

debopero
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:58 AM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?

:yawn:

InsideOut.
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:59 AM
Wow...she looks...very very classy and elegant. :yeah:

volta
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:01 AM
waw nice . hopefully she will do some damage at Wimbledon :hearts:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:02 AM
Hair you retard.

:rolleyes: ok why is it such a mess? :wavey:

дalex
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:05 AM
Cool. Go Rena! :hearts:

Craigy
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:05 AM
:rolleyes: ok why is it such a mess? :wavey:

This thread isn't about Serena's hair so why don't you just keep on track.

No Name Face
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:06 AM
great info and all, but she looks amazing in that picture. she really is a beautiful woman.

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:08 AM
This thread isn't about Serena's hair so why don't you just keep on track.

whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

Watching
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:12 AM
:rolleyes: ok why is it such a mess? :wavey:

You are a absolute tit for sure.

kittyking
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:16 AM
That hair does not look real :lol:

Cp6uja
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:16 AM
I find at that link names of all 25 "The Black List":

Serena Williams
Colin Powell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Keenan Ivory Wayans
Richard Parsons
Sean Combs
Thelma Golden
Vernon Jordan
Toni Morrison
Susan Rice
Chris Rock
Russel Simmons
Slash
Steve Stoute
Zane
Mahlon Duckett
Lou Gossett
Bill T Jones
Marc Morial
Suzan Lori Parks
William Rice
Al Sharpton
Lorna Simpson
Dawn Staley
Faye Wattleton


Perhaps Americans knows about all this African-Americans (for me is more than half unknown).

BTW i will not be too much surprised if Serena and Venus in next 4 or maybe 8 years will be part of many US Media "kissObama*ss" projects :lol::tape::lol:

Mina Vagante
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Serena :D Looks good :)

kittyking
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:19 AM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

There are a number of shows that are about people helping white people, this is a noticable exeption. It's a bit of a stretch to call it racist.

дalex
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:21 AM
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

:hug: It is impressive but this particular documentary deals with struggles of African-Americans in the US. :shrug:
I'm white too. ;)

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:23 AM
There are a number of shows that are about people helping white people, this is a noticable exeption. It's a bit of a stretch to call it racist.

i didn't call it racist, i just think that a lot of black people or the way that there portrayed is as victims, there are many very privilaged black people. i think shows like these dont help things because its setting black people aside from white. why cant it just be a list of anybody who has struggled, be it white, black, hispanic ect.

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:24 AM
sorry double post my bad!

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:30 AM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

everything on tv promotes white people...go on E! and you have the E! True Hollywood Story, where the only time i saw black people on that were when they did the Williams' story....Celebrity Expose, more white people....its about time i hear of something putting us blacks in a positive light...we're always stereotyped as the poor, helpless, needy, ever dependent, underclass, uneducated, violent people who ruin society....

anyways....she looks fine :hearts:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:34 AM
i didn't call it racist, i just think that a lot of black people or the way that there portrayed is as victims, there are many very privilaged black people. i think shows like these dont help things because its setting black people aside from white. why cant it just be a list of anybody who has struggled, be it white, black, hispanic ect.

but you wouldn't think so with the way the media portrays everything...it's therefore not their fault when they set aside a show specifically catered to show successful black people, the media made it that way since as you said, they always portray us as victims...should we wait for them to have a change of heart before taking the initiative and portraying ourselves in a positive light???

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:45 AM
but you wouldn't think so with the way the media portrays everything...it's therefore not their fault when they set aside a show specifically catered to show successful black people, the media made it that way since as you said, they always portray us as victims...should we wait for them to have a change of heart before taking the initiative and portraying ourselves in a positive light???

well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:53 AM
i don't think i am hard done by anyone either...however i do think there's nothing wrong with a show specifically catered to show us in a positive light...especially when the media makes it seem as though there aren't any successful black people that i can look up to....as successful as donald trump is, if you put him in a room with serena and a host of black people who you try to motivate, they would take more inspiration from serena because it would be like "she knows EXACTLY where i come from"...to be honest you can't say that whites and blacks have the same struggle in a society....

it's why i will always love serena and venus in and out of tennis...they represent people i can look to and say: there's one of us who didn't fall along the stereotypical path of violence and drugs and whatever else

debopero
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:56 AM
well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.

How do you know that many black people walk around with chips on their shoulder? Could it be that the person on "Big Brother" just had an explosive and defensive attitude? I was not going to respond to you but your stupidity drew me in.

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:59 AM
Did something go wrong with the angles/editing of this picture?:confused:

At first I thought, wow, nice picture, but then I looked down at her hands, and they seem way out of proportion, not her own natural hands at all.... I can't look at it now, it scares me. It's like the hands are coming to get me...

Really random this is, anyone else getting this vibe? :confused:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:06 PM
i don't think i am hard done by anyone either...however i do think there's nothing wrong with a show specifically catered to show us in a positive light...especially when the media makes it seem as though there aren't any successful black people that i can look up to....as successful as donald trump is, if you put him in a room with serena and a host of black people who you try to motivate, they would take more inspiration from serena because it would be like "she knows EXACTLY where i come from"...to be honest you can't say that whites and blacks have the same struggle in a society....

it's why i will always love serena and venus in and out of tennis...they represent people i can look to and say: there's one of us who didn't fall along the stereotypical path of violence and drugs and whatever else

i personaly think serena is a great role model and dont think of her as a black role model just a role model. the problem is the people that are put up on pedastal these days, i mean 50 cent is probably a lot more known than serena but we all no which 1 is a better role model, but he sends out all the wrong messages. its a problem with all western cultures these days that the people that are in the media spotlight are bad role models and these incourage young people down the wrong road, case being amy winehouse in the uk at the moment.

svetaisthebest
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Did something go wrong with the angles/editing of this picture?:confused:

At first I thought, wow, nice picture, but then I looked down at her hands, and they seem way out of proportion, not her own natural hands at all.... I can't look at it now, it scares me. It's like the hands are coming to get me...

Really random this is, anyone else getting this vibe? :confused:

yeah i know... i thought i was the only one thinking that :lol:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:12 PM
How do you know that many black people walk around with chips on their shoulder? Could it be that the person on "Big Brother" just had an explosive and defensive attitude? I was not going to respond to you but your stupidity drew me in.

because i live in a multicultural society, i went to multicultural school. its my experience. i formed my opinion from experience which is all i can go on. i went to a school in which ethnic minorities outwayed white people by 2 to 1 yet they still had a defensive attitude and were always so quick to claim that 'x' was happening because of there ethnicity.

bridgepea
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Hey, to the person who posted that they are white and was bullied, hey welcome to our world.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:22 PM
i personaly think serena is a great role model and dont think of her as a black role model just a role model. the problem is the people that are put up on pedastal these days, i mean 50 cent is probably a lot more known than serena but we all no which 1 is a better role model, but he sends out all the wrong messages. its a problem with all western cultures these days that the people that are in the media spotlight are bad role models and these incourage young people down the wrong road, case being amy winehouse in the uk at the moment.

winehouse is just :weirdo: but the case with serena is whereas the average person will see her as a role model, a black person who came up just like her sees her as a black role model....that is something i see her as.....50 cent is just :weirdo: he and that lot of them are some people i would never look up to...unfortunately IMO THOSE are the sort of blacks that the media portrays, but the good ones like serena and venus aren't....this is particulary why i think that show is a great idea... :)

debopero
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:31 PM
because i live in a multicultural society, i went to multicultural school. its my experience. i formed my opinion from experience which is all i can go on. i went to a school in which ethnic minorities outwayed white people by 2 to 1 yet they still had a defensive attitude and were always so quick to claim that 'x' was happening because of there ethnicity.

Well, I think it is important to understand that the minorities in your school do not speak for all black people :) . I go to school with mostly whites and could easily say that all whites are all raicst just because a lot of the ones in my school are (just a few months ago one person said that all black people should be lined up and shot) but I do not.

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:32 PM
winehouse is just :weirdo: but the case with serena is whereas the average person will see her as a role model, a black person who came up just like her sees her as a black role model....that is something i see her as.....50 cent is just :weirdo: he and that lot of them are some people i would never look up to...unfortunately IMO THOSE are the sort of blacks that the media portrays, but the good ones like serena and venus aren't....this is particulary why i think that show is a great idea... :)

i agree i just think it could be the same but with white people in it, have say sheryl crow on it instead of an amy winehouse. show that wether your black, white ect there is a celebrity/role model out there doing the right things, working hard and getting the rewards.
i think there aren't enough shows out there that actualy show a positive light on good role models, its seems the more contriversial you are the more your rewarded which is just wrong. i think were on the same wavelength i just think there are white people who deserve to be held in high esteem with a show like this as well as black, because theres a generation of girls growing up looking upto winehouse, just like there are a gerenation of people growing up looking up to 50 cent and these aren't the people that should have the spotlight on them or be held up on pedastals.

Pureracket
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:34 PM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?It airs every night on about every channel in the US.

doni1212
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:36 PM
everything on tv promotes white people...go on E! and you have the E! True Hollywood Story, where the only time i saw black people on that were when they did the Williams' story....Celebrity Expose, more white people....its about time i hear of something putting us blacks in a positive light...we're always stereotyped as the poor, helpless, needy, ever dependent, underclass, uneducated, violent people who ruin society....

anyways....she looks fine :hearts:

:worship::worship::worship:

well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.

This is always the excuse and defense, :rolleyes:

doni1212
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:38 PM
It airs every night on about every channel in the US.

:lol:
:worship::worship::worship:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:39 PM
This is always the excuse and defense, :rolleyes:

:confused: denfense of what? have i said anything that needs defending?

Pureracket
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:41 PM
:haha: sammy used the "one of my best friends is Black" defense. OMG! Classic!

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:44 PM
:haha: sammy used the "one of my best friends is Black" defense. OMG! Classic!

your point is, she is black and she is a very close friend? obviously because i have an opinion about this i am not allowed black friends. have you ever thought that the reason im friends with her is because shes a beautiful human being that i share a connection with and dosen't have a victim attitude, guess that would go strait over your head. omg classic! :wavey:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:44 PM
i agree i just think it could be the same but with white people in it, have say sheryl crow on it instead of an amy winehouse. show that wether your black, white ect there is a celebrity/role model out there doing the right things, working hard and getting the rewards.
i think there aren't enough shows out there that actualy show a positive light on good role models, its seems the more contriversial you are the more your rewarded which is just wrong. i think were on the same wavelength i just think there are white people who deserve to be held in high esteem with a show like this as well as black, because theres a generation of girls growing up looking upto winehouse, just like there are a gerenation of people growing up looking up to 50 cent and these aren't the people that should have the spotlight on them or be held up on pedastals.

paris hilton anyone :tape:

meanwhile...do you think they should do it with tennis?? lol have a show like this highlighting tennis players???

Pureracket
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:44 PM
:confused: denfense of what? have i said anything that needs defending?You use it as an excuse to show that you have an idea what Black people are going through.

Look, it's sooo exhausting sometimes trying to explain the issue of race to people who already seem to have preconceived notions of what racism is. Regardless of how you want to look @ it, any sane person will tell you that Black people are not portrayed favourably in the media. There aren't an abundant of role models on television compared to other groups, and many little Black girls and boys don't have the same point of inspiration.

For you to point @ "victimhood" as your rational to object to such a list highlighting positive role models only points to an approach to racism that's informed by the most closed minded groups.

doni1212
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:46 PM
You use it as an excuse to show that you have an idea what Black people are going through.

Look, it's sooo exhausting sometimes trying to explain the issue of race to people who already seem to have preconceived notions of what racism is. Regardless of how you want to look @ it, any sane person will tell you that Black people are not portrayed favourably in the media. There aren't an abundant of role models on television compared to other groups, and many little Black girls and boys don't have the same point of inspiration.

For you to point @ "victimhood" as your rational to object to such a list highlighting positive role models only points to an approach to racism that's informed by the most closed minded groups.

Exactly, :worship:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:48 PM
paris hilton anyone :tape:

meanwhile...do you think they should do it with tennis?? lol have a show like this highlighting tennis players???

i think that would be good but it would maybe put off people who aren't intrested in tennis. i think a sort of unsung heros show would be cool, with people who are from all fields of celebrity and race.

Pureracket
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:49 PM
your point is, she is black and she is a very close friend? obviously because i have an opinion about this i am not allowed black friends. have you ever thought that the reason im friends with her is because shes a beautiful human being that i share a connection with and dosen't have a victim attitude, guess that would go strait over your head. omg classic! :wavey:You're the only one talking about the victim attitude. I would imagine anyone who's friends with you, regardless of race, would consider herself a victim.

Vamos.
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:50 PM
i didn't call it racist, i just think that a lot of black people or the way that there portrayed is as victims, there are many very privilaged black people. i think shows like these dont help things because its setting black people aside from white. why cant it just be a list of anybody who has struggled, be it white, black, hispanic ect.

It is because it challenges the term "black list" and the negative connotations. It is that whole thing about "white" being pure and holy whereas "black" is cold and sinister.

There is no such thing as a "white list" which is why there isn't a film about it.

:rolleyes:

Emina.
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:50 PM
http://i29.tinypic.com/2rwx8x0.jpg


I like this pic! She looks great :cool:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 12:52 PM
You use it as an excuse to show that you have an idea what Black people are going through.

Look, it's sooo exhausting sometimes trying to explain the issue of race to people who already seem to have preconceived notions of what racism is. Regardless of how you want to look @ it, any sane person will tell you that Black people are not portrayed favourably in the media. There aren't an abundant of role models on television compared to other groups, and many little Black girls and boys don't have the same point of inspiration.

For you to point @ "victimhood" as your rational to object to such a list highlighting positive role models only points to an approach to racism that's informed by the most closed minded groups.

your so wrong, i said it to show that im not anti black, if someones a decent person i will be more than happy to be there friend regardless of sex, age or race. again you just took it a certain way and got defensive and proved my point. infact i have like 4 or 5 people getting defensive towards me for having an open opinion that is niether racist or disrespectful and then you wonder why black people are portrayed or seen as victims/defensive?

Pureracket
Jun 16th, 2008, 01:10 PM
your so wrong, i said it to show that im not anti black, if someones a decent person i will be more than happy to be there friend regardless of sex, age or race. again you just took it a certain way and got defensive and proved my point. infact i have like 4 or 5 people getting defensive towards me for having an open opinion that is niether racist or disrespectful and then you wonder why black people are portrayed or seen as victims/defensive?Honestly, I don't care how you see me. You're not my measuring stick, and what people like you say would barely warrant a second look.

I never said I wondered what you thought of me. I never said I cared if you thought I was being defensive. I don't. You are the one who brought all that up.

Il Primo!
Jun 16th, 2008, 01:14 PM
Serena's on the list...."The Black List"

http://i29.tinypic.com/2rwx8x0.jpg

The always caring and concerned Serena Williams contributes to "The Black List." “The Black List” is a documentary which seeks to bury the negative weight of the term by allowing African-Americans to provide an up-to-the-minute answer to the grim origins of “blacklist.” In a film that works as series of living portraits, twenty-five prominent African Americans of various professions, disciplines and backgrounds offer their own stories and insights on the struggles, triumphs and joys of black life in this country and manage to re-define “blacklist” for a new century in the process.

It is comprised of an HBO documentary film, a museum exhibition of photographic portraits, a forthcoming book of those photographs and a national interactive, curriculum-based educational program. The film is presented as a series of vignettes – a kind of living portraiture – in which the subjects address the camera directly as they tell their stories.

Timothy Greenfield-Sanders directed the film in collaboration with Elvis Mitchell who conducted the interviews. Mitchell is never seen on camera or heard, thus allowing the subjects’ own voices to remain the focus. "The Black List" film premieres on HBO August 25th. Each compelling interview serves as a potent illustration of empowerment in the face of unique limitations and broader obstacles. For more information, visit www.blacklistproject.com


She actually looks classy.

Radix2
Jun 16th, 2008, 01:23 PM
Serena has such a beautiful face

thrust
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:01 PM
Wow...she looks...very very classy and elegant. :yeah:

Yes, she does!

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Ok, after looking at the picture a second time... I'm even more afraid!

What has the photographer done to the poor girl's hands????? :sad:

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:23 PM
But at least her face looks gorgeous :)

hankqq
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:34 PM
I like this pic of Serena, although I'll say again, I prefer longer hair on women.


Without getting into a heated discussion about race, here's my comment...

For those who are curious, here's what wikipedia had to say:

A blacklist is a list or register of entities who, for one reason or another, are being denied a particular privilege, service, mobility, access or recognition. As a verb, to blacklist can mean to deny someone work in a particular field, or to ostracize them from a certain social circle. Conversely, a whitelist is a list or compilation or list identifying entities that are accepted, recognised, or privileged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklist


Now, just imagine if you are a black person growing up and you read this definition. What does that mean to you? If you're black, and you see how the word "black" is associated with something negative (BTW there are MANY other words that use the word "black" in a negative way), how would that make you feel about yourself? Personally, I like how this documentary will be taking the term "blacklist" and making something positive out of it.

I'm all for lists that include people of all backgrounds, etc., but I think this documentary which is talking about a specific group of people is a good thing too.

hankqq
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Her hands are very veiny. :tape:


Almost all tennis players (male and female) have veiny hands. :shrug: This just means they didn't photoshop it this time.

Optima
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:48 PM
Serena :hearts: She looks amazing. I love her hair, it looks really nice.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:48 PM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

There you have it. It's not as impressive.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 16th, 2008, 02:55 PM
i personaly think serena is a great role model and dont think of her as a black role model just a role model. the problem is the people that are put up on pedastal these days, i mean 50 cent is probably a lot more known than serena but we all no which 1 is a better role model, but he sends out all the wrong messages. its a problem with all western cultures these days that the people that are in the media spotlight are bad role models and these incourage young people down the wrong road, case being amy winehouse in the uk at the moment.

%70 of all hip hop music is sold to whites...Just thought I'd point that out to you.

All your whining sounds like projection. How big is the chip on your shoulder? What do you think the world owes you?:wavey:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 16th, 2008, 03:05 PM
Sammy01, instead of bitching and whining why don't you just tune it to the program, STFU, for the duration, and hopefully learn something.

Destiny
Jun 16th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Serena looks great:hearts:

Can't wait to see the clips of this :)

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 03:18 PM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!
Im sorry but what you are saying is completely bullshit. There are white people all over TV talking about their struggles however, unless they are foreign white people, their struggles have nothing to do with race.
I find at that link names of all 25 "The Black List":

Serena Williams
Colin Powell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Keenan Ivory Wayans
Richard Parsons
Sean Combs
Thelma Golden
Vernon Jordan
Toni Morrison
Susan Rice
Chris Rock
Russel Simmons
Slash
Steve Stoute
Zane
Mahlon Duckett
Lou Gossett
Bill T Jones
Marc Morial
Suzan Lori Parks
William Rice
Al Sharpton
Lorna Simpson
Dawn Staley
Faye Wattleton


Perhaps Americans knows about all this African-Americans (for me is more than half unknown).

BTW i will not be too much surprised if Serena and Venus in next 4 or maybe 8 years will be part of many US Media "kissObama*ss" projects :lol::tape::lol:
Well all I know is Serena, Russel Simmons (I think), Sean Coombs (P Diddy), and Chris Rock.
everything on tv promotes white people...go on E! and you have the E! True Hollywood Story, where the only time i saw black people on that were when they did the Williams' story....Celebrity Expose, more white people....its about time i hear of something putting us blacks in a positive light...we're always stereotyped as the poor, helpless, needy, ever dependent, underclass, uneducated, violent people who ruin society....

anyways....she looks fine :hearts:
Well said.
well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.
Don't try and bring Charley and Alex into it. Firstly, there are loads of white people who like confrontation and arguments, second, the reason they got onto big brother is because they are the exception, not the common black girl (wow, i forgot the word i was going to use :lol:)
because i live in a multicultural society, i went to multicultural school. its my experience. i formed my opinion from experience which is all i can go on. i went to a school in which ethnic minorities outwayed white people by 2 to 1 yet they still had a defensive attitude and were always so quick to claim that 'x' was happening because of there ethnicity.
How many times have people called you a white piece of shit (or whatever racist word is used against white people) to your face by someone of another race, even when they are "joking"? My friends call me a nigga to my face sometimes and even though they are 'joking' and I will give them a mouthful back while joking, people have different attitudes to me and will take so much offense if you were to go and call them a nigga. I mean, I used to get really pissed off at them a couple of years ago before I realised that I could easily just give it straight back to them and have a laugh. But people have different personalities and for some people, if one person was 'joking' and called them a nigga, it would stay with them for the rest of their life....
It airs every night on about every channel in the US.
:lol:
:worship::worship::worship:



This is always the excuse and defense, :rolleyes:

:haha: sammy used the "one of my best friends is Black" defense. OMG! Classic!
Exactly. :lol:
You use it as an excuse to show that you have an idea what Black people are going through.

Look, it's sooo exhausting sometimes trying to explain the issue of race to people who already seem to have preconceived notions of what racism is. Regardless of how you want to look @ it, any sane person will tell you that Black people are not portrayed favourably in the media. There aren't an abundant of role models on television compared to other groups, and many little Black girls and boys don't have the same point of inspiration.

For you to point @ "victimhood" as your rational to object to such a list highlighting positive role models only points to an approach to racism that's informed by the most closed minded groups.
Well said.

your so wrong, i said it to show that im not anti black, if someones a decent person i will be more than happy to be there friend regardless of sex, age or race. again you just took it a certain way and got defensive and proved my point. infact i have like 4 or 5 people getting defensive towards me for having an open opinion that is niether racist or disrespectful and then you wonder why black people are portrayed or seen as victims/defensive?
What you say may not be racist but you are generalising black people by saying every single one of them walks around with 'a chip on their shoulder', feeling victimised. And you are basically saying that every single one of them should get over it and why? Because you went to a school where coloured people outnumbered white people and you dont act like that. Well how old are you? I mean no offense by it but im 15 and I feel like I have waaaay more wisdom than you right now. I don't mean to say that you are stupid or anything but it seems that you just don't get it. It was black people who came to england, it was black people who were told they should go back, it was black people who were slaves. If it was the other way round and black people had populated England first, im sure you wouldn't be complaining about how we always victimise ourselves. I want to say that you don't understand because you're white, but many people here do, and I know because we have had this conversation a million times.

PatrickRyan
Jun 16th, 2008, 03:44 PM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

White people aren't the minority in America. They weren't slaves and didn't have equal rights till 40 years ago.

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 03:54 PM
im going to stop talking about this after this post and box you have realy pissed me off. im gay and get sterotyped all the time, so what. i dont rally round saying we need more gay people on t.v or they never have programes focusing on things that gay people have done, or gay people need to be shown in a different way. in all my posts i added that its not all black people.

you know what realy pisses me off is my first post i nearly didn't post about me thinking its not a good idea for a t.v and its wrong because of this whole thing. you cant have an opinion on a race without being portrayed as racist or ignorant. in a world of supposedly free speach how sad is that i feel i shouldn't post my feelings that are not disrespectful but honest as people like pureracket spout bullshit and take the piss.

Infiniti2001
Jun 16th, 2008, 04:28 PM
BTW i will not be too much surprised if Serena and Venus in next 4 or maybe 8 years will be part of many US Media "kissObama*ss" projects :lol::tape::lol:

I typically do not post in Serena threads, but I had to make an exception to respond to this ignorance :help: The sisters are Jehovah's witnesses who do not vote or part take in politics--- Yet in your mind apparently all black people are out to kiss Obama's ass :rolleyes: :help:

égalité
Jun 16th, 2008, 04:32 PM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

Uh, well, the show is about people growing up with a specific struggle: being black. If you think people of all races start out on equal playing fields, then you're pretty naive. If the show were about people getting bullied for whatever reasons you were bullied, then maybe you and I and other white people could be on it. :)

And since you're gay, would you have a problem with a show concerning 25 gay people and their struggles?

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 04:51 PM
im going to stop talking about this after this post and box you have realy pissed me off. im gay and get sterotyped all the time, so what. i dont rally round saying we need more gay people on t.v or they never have programes focusing on things that gay people have done, or gay people need to be shown in a different way. in all my posts i added that its not all black people.

you know what realy pisses me off is my first post i nearly didn't post about me thinking its not a good idea for a t.v and its wrong because of this whole thing. you cant have an opinion on a race without being portrayed as racist or ignorant. in a world of supposedly free speach how sad is that i feel i shouldn't post my feelings that are not disrespectful but honest as people like pureracket spout bullshit and take the piss.

Race is a sensitive subject. Especially with us black people because of the struggles black people went through before.

Just because you don't go around campaigning for gay rights, doesn't mean no one else does. You don't see me campaining for black rights or whatever but it doesn't mean other people don't. And bullshit that there are no programs on T.V saying that the perception of gay people needs to change. Trust me, if there wasn't, then you wouldn't be able to show yourself in public without bbeing abused and beaten up or whatevr in the same way that if there weren't people campaigning for black rights it would be legal for someone to walk up to me, spit on me and call me a '"fucking nigga".

No one said that you're rasict here, but these people are embracing the fact that race is an issue in society. Especially in the black society of which black people have been abused because of that for so long. You're the one who started talking about black people walking around with a chip on their shoulder. As someone said, would you have a problem if 25 famous gay people went on TV and talked about their struggle, or 25 white people living in Africa spoke about their struggle. I think I know what the answer would be...

No one's having a go at you. You started off this discussion.so don't get all sulky when more people disagree with you. Especially when it's in a Serena thread and a bulk of her fans are black.

homogenius
Jun 16th, 2008, 05:07 PM
You use it as an excuse to show that you have an idea what Black people are going through.

Look, it's sooo exhausting sometimes trying to explain the issue of race to people who already seem to have preconceived notions of what racism is. Regardless of how you want to look @ it, any sane person will tell you that Black people are not portrayed favourably in the media. There aren't an abundant of role models on television compared to other groups, and many little Black girls and boys don't have the same point of inspiration.

For you to point @ "victimhood" as your rational to object to such a list highlighting positive role models only points to an approach to racism that's informed by the most closed minded groups.

While I agree on the "misrepresented blacks people in the medias" thing, there's something that I don't understand : why Black girls or Boys couldn't be inspired by "role models" that aren't black ?
Personnally, I can be inspired by people who are not of the same color than me, or who have not the same sexuality, social background, cultur etc...than me.So I have a hard time to understand why some would reduce their identity at a color of skin (or sexuality, social origin etc...) ?

Ntour
Jun 16th, 2008, 05:34 PM
did she get a breast reduction?

Dodoboy.
Jun 16th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Wow, she looks great!

I wonder what she will have to say :)

markdelaney
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:19 PM
She looks beautiful and proof of the environment Serena grew up in was the tragic death of her sister Yetunde in a shooting.

Just taking UK and USA as examples, black kids are drawn into crime at a very disproportionate rate due to so many living in poor areas and difficult conditions. Positive role models are essential to give these kids something to look to and I applaud the list.

Destiny
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:35 PM
did she get a breast reduction?

no that was what i was thinking too
:lol:

Her boobs do look bigger on tv i have to say. I swear the photoshop it in pictures:tape::help::)

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:37 PM
While I agree on the "misrepresented blacks people in the medias" thing, there's something that I don't understand : why Black girls or Boys couldn't be inspired by "role models" that aren't black ?
Personnally, I can be inspired by people who are not of the same color than me, or who have not the same sexuality, social background, cultur etc...than me.So I have a hard time to understand why some would reduce their identity at a color of skin (or sexuality, social origin etc...) ?
I dno, I guess people would rather a role model who's like them and probabaly went or are going through the same as them (race, sexuality, gender, even age - when you look at the millions of girls who watch miley cyrus' every move.. or whatever her name is...)

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:37 PM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?

Call HBO and find out.

Cp6uja
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I typically do not post in Serena threads, but I had to make an exception to respond to this ignorance :help: The sisters are Jehovah's witnesses who do not vote or part take in politics--- Yet in your mind apparently all black people are out to kiss Obama's ass :rolleyes: :help::confused: :confused: :confused:

That my comment is directed on new (and near future) trend in American media which "discovered" now, just couple months before Obama (probably) win - how great African-Amerikan people with great achivments and career live in their country and how many problems they have to reach all that. So in this case i talking about HBO, not about this 25 successful people from that list.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:40 PM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

No, it's not. :shrug:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:47 PM
well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.

You are using Big Brother to further your point :tape: It's an audition process. The producers pick characters out. As for Alex having a chip on her shoulder, it is NOT because she is black! It's because her mother showed her tough love when she got pregnant at 15/16 and made her work to support her child. It's being forced to fight & work for everything she had that made into an idiot. Charley never had a chip on her shoulder, she was just argumentative and she was up her own arse.

Using people from Big Brother to make a point about black people having a chip on their shoulders is just dumb! It's a freakshow and they pick idiots. But if you do believe it furthers your point, does it also mean that a lot of white people are sluts that love to have sex in front of millions of people? Or that a lot of white people are racists who tell people of a different race to them to "F*ck off back home"? Exactly, it's such a dumb point you brought up!

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:49 PM
well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.

Do you live in America? Are you psychic? If not, then how do you know what "alot of black people walk around thinking or acting like"? If there are a lot of white people who act like this as well, why are you singling out blacks for this behavior that you find so abhorent and what most of us do?

Who died and made you the judge of all black people, how they should act and what makes up better people? Are you saying that we are not good people to begin with, that because your friend acts the way you prefer, she is a better person?

Destiny
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy01 View Post
well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder. obviously there are plenty of white people like this as well. on the new series of big brother in the uk theres a black girl on it (alex) and she has such a victim mentality and inturn is a horrible person. the same thing happend last year with charlie, she was a black girl who had such a chip on her shoulder and was a nasty piece of work. im not saying big brother is totaly indictive of life but in my experience black people dont always do themselves favours with the way they act.
obviously this is only some as 1 of my best friends is a amazing black girl who dosen't think shes hard done by being black and is therefore a better person for it.
Don't bring Charlie into this :rolleyes: Did you actually know what she had been through

Matt01
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Damn, Denise0815 has discovered this thread :scared:

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:52 PM
I think I found the reason why the proportions on this picture look wrong:

-as someone pointed out, her boobs look smaller
-as I noticed and someone agreed, her hands look larger than usual

It might have to do with the dress. With the high belt, high neck, smart shape and black color it is a dress that makes everything in it look smaller than it really is. Her hands are not in it, so by contrast they are made to look larger, while her boobs look small.

So much for my analysis of this picture

And notice how I and others have tried to move this conversation into another direction, but were (unsurprisingly) unsuccesful :sad:

Destiny
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:55 PM
^^ I know :mad:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 06:58 PM
i agree i just think it could be the same but with white people in it, have say sheryl crow on it instead of an amy winehouse. show that wether your black, white ect there is a celebrity/role model out there doing the right things, working hard and getting the rewards.
i think there aren't enough shows out there that actualy show a positive light on good role models, its seems the more contriversial you are the more your rewarded which is just wrong. i think were on the same wavelength i just think there are white people who deserve to be held in high esteem with a show like this as well as black, because theres a generation of girls growing up looking upto winehouse, just like there are a gerenation of people growing up looking up to 50 cent and these aren't the people that should have the spotlight on them or be held up on pedastals.

I think you are contradicting yourself. On one hand you think of Serena as just a role model, not a black role model, yet you want white people represented on the show. :weirdo:

What difference does it make that all of the people on the show are black?
There are plenty of shows on TV that have all-white casts. :shrug: I don't see you complaining about that. You are the one who seems to be making more of a big deal out of it than anyone else.

Instead of fighting it, why don't you take a look at the show and maybe you'll learn a little more about the black culture then from what you see at your school and on Big Brother.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:01 PM
:confused: denfense of what? have i said anything that needs defending?

Well, when you say something negative and racially offensive, like you have about black people, using the excuse of having a black person as a best friend keeps people from accusing you of being prejudice against blacks.

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:03 PM
I guess the mother hen just woke up. :lol: :p

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:08 PM
This thread got awful in no time :(. How does it always start as a tribute to a player and end in a mudthrowing racefest?

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:10 PM
I guess the mother hen just woke up. :lol: :p

:haha:

Btw, dont get too pissed at Sammy, there is a lot of shit in British media so people kinda get over defensive about this kinda thing, he is just putting across his opinion REALLY badly :rolleyes:

However, to assume that a black person has had a more difficult route to get somewhere than a white person who has achieved the same is stupid too, I dont see the need for such lists as this :rolleyes:

Destiny
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:11 PM
People like to put their foot in their mouth's :tape:

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:12 PM
I guess we europeans (yes, I'm including you british people :p) will never understand the complexities of american society...

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:12 PM
im going to stop talking about this after this post and box you have realy pissed me off. im gay and get sterotyped all the time, so what. i dont rally round saying we need more gay people on t.v or they never have programes focusing on things that gay people have done, or gay people need to be shown in a different way. in all my posts i added that its not all black people.

you know what realy pisses me off is my first post i nearly didn't post about me thinking its not a good idea for a t.v and its wrong because of this whole thing. you cant have an opinion on a race without being portrayed as racist or ignorant. in a world of supposedly free speach how sad is that i feel i shouldn't post my feelings that are not disrespectful but honest as people like pureracket spout bullshit and take the piss.

But you are obviously ignorant based on your posts and your opinion, and your posts are disrespectful. But, you only see your point of view. You don't even try to open your mind to how someone else feels. This is why people are coming at you in this manner.

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Tbh Sammy, no1 opens up a mature ''discussion'' with 'Whats that on her head?' or whatever crap you posted, so you really have no point...

Stamp Paid
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:16 PM
This thread is a mess. But Serena looks so pretty, with her self-proclaimed "manhands" and all! :hearts: :p

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Damn, Denise0815 has discovered this thread :scared:

Another post by Matt that has no relevance to the thread or any of the conversations in the thread.

Matt01
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Another post by Matt that has no relevance to the thread or any of the conversations in the thread.


But you think your posts have? :lol:

:wavey:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I guess the mother hen just woke up. :lol: :p

No, some of us work for a living. :) We are not priviledged to be on summer vacay from school.

Reuchlin
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:24 PM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?

When racial minorities will no longer have to affirm their identities to counter hundreds of years of oppression, discrimination and prejudice from whites.

Il Primo!
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Another post by Matt that has no relevance to the thread or any of the conversations in the thread.

For once I agree with that piece of dirty thing.

You need to calm down. Stop believing that Serena can't do no wrong because this is NOT the reality. For some people, like me, she looks hip hop trash most of the time. So what? Each to their own. (I'm talking about your stupid rep)

And lol at the folks who bring the race-card. Pathetic.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:26 PM
But you think your posts have? :lol:

:wavey:

Yes Matt. Do we have to have the exact same conversation everytime I'm in a thread and you find me?

Unlike you, my purpose in the thread is give my opinion on the topic and address other people's opinions and have a discussion. I don't enter a thread just to harass and denigrate people I don't like. I'm just not as childish as you. However, everytime you do this to me, I report you to the mods. Just so you know.

:wavey:

Reuchlin
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Serena's on the list...."The Black List"


Good for Serena. Although the hair wreaks of white influences.

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:27 PM
For once I agree with that piece of dirty thing.

You need to calm down. Stop believing that Serena can't do no wrong because this is NOT the reality. For some people, like me, she looks hip hop trash most of the time. So what? Each to their own. (I'm talking about your stupid rep)

And lol at the folks who bring the race-card. Pathetic.

:help:

I dont think Serena made the list herself? So where was Denise suggesting she can do no wrong?

Destiny
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Wow wow

Can i just say i love Serena and she rocks and she looks hot :):):)

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Good for Serena. Although the hair wreaks of white influences.

Ehm... care to elaborate?

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:30 PM
For once I agree with that piece of dirty thing.

You need to calm down. Stop believing that Serena can't do no wrong because this is NOT the reality. For some people, like me, she looks hip hop trash most of the time. So what? Each to their own. (I'm talking about your stupid rep)

And lol at the folks who bring the race-card. Pathetic.

Calm down?? :lol: I don't think I said or done anything excitable in the thread.

Yeah, the rep stings doesn't it? :lol: Yeah to each his own. Just like Serena looks hip hop trash to you most of the time and you commented on it, your posts about Serena look negative and unecessarily crass to me, so I bad repped you about it. So what? Take it like a grown-up and move on.

Il Primo!
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:34 PM
:help:

I dont think Serena made the list herself? So where was Denise suggesting she can do no wrong?

I was talking about this rep.;)

I'm just really sick of your negative comments about Serena. "She actually looks classy" as opposed to what she naturally looks?

Dodoboy.
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Go Denise :kiss:

Some people :o

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:36 PM
I was talking about this rep.;)

I'm just really sick of your negative comments about Serena. "She actually looks classy" as opposed to what she naturally looks?

Oh, ok thanks for clearing that up.

Great repping Denise :wavey:

Andrew Laeddis
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:37 PM
White people aren't the minority in America. They weren't slaves and didn't have equal rights till 40 years ago.

:worship: Thank you. I swear its as if people forget that these things ever happened.

Il Primo!
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:38 PM
Calm down?? :lol: I don't think I said or done anything excitable in the thread.

Yeah, the rep stings doesn't it? :lol: Yeah to each his own. Just like Serena looks hip hop trash to you most of the time and you commented on it, your posts about Serena look negative and unecessarily crass to me, so I bad repped you about it. So what? Take it like a grown-up and move on.


You're contradicting yourself.

You once said you never told anything remotely bad or went against WS's fans. So by reading your rep, I'm assuming you're upset by my comment on Serena's looks. And my point is this is stupid to get upset each time someone, fan or not, tell something "wrong" about Serena.

Got it? :)

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:41 PM
You're contradicting yourself.

You once said you never told anything remotely bad or went against WS's fans. So by reading your rep, I'm assuming you're upset by my comment on Serena's looks. And my point is this is stupid to get upset each time someone, fan or not, tell something "wrong" about Serena.

Got it? :)

No, because you constantly make little nasty comments about her, trying to be funny to your little friends who aren't her fans. I just wanted you to know that I was sick of it. And what I said to you in the rep is not remotely bad towards you. :rolleyes:

winone23
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:41 PM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?

You missed it. It came on yesterday. Next time check your TV guide.

winone23
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:42 PM
Serena looks nice. I'm looking forward to seeing this project.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:44 PM
Go Denise :kiss:

Some people :o

Oh, ok thanks for clearing that up.

Great repping Denise :wavey:

:wavey:

Il Primo!
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:47 PM
No, because you constantly make little nasty comments about her, trying to be funny to your little friends who aren't her fans. I just wanted you to know that I was sick of it. And what I said to you in the rep is not remotely bad towards you. :rolleyes:

My comments are most of the time in WS sub-forum, so people who post there are fans of her.:)

You once made this kind of silly remark, like I wanted to be liked by Maria's fans by mocking Reena or something like that. I told you were tripping, I thought you learnt, but it's seems like you're not even close to understand.

Don't go too ahead of yourself and don't forget to think before speaking. :yawn:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:47 PM
:worship: Thank you. I swear its as if people forget that these things ever happened.

You think?


Forgive....but NEVER forget.

PatrickRyan
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:54 PM
She does something good and positive and yet people still attack her :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:55 PM
My comments are most of the time in WS sub-forum, so people who post there are fans of her.:)

You once made this kind of silly remark, like I wanted to be liked by Maria's fans by mocking Reena or something like that. I told you were tripping, I thought you learnt, but it's seems like you're not even close to understand.

Don't go too ahead of yourself and don't forget to think before speaking. :yawn:

:lol: You're funny and a Pova suck up.

fouc
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:58 PM
i didn't call it racist, i just think that a lot of black people or the way that there portrayed is as victims, there are many very privilaged black people. i think shows like these dont help things because its setting black people aside from white. why cant it just be a list of anybody who has struggled, be it white, black, hispanic ect.

that's a weird opinion. u could find a lot of programmes about people who have struggled because of their age, weight, high, sexual orientation, class, gender, and here u have another one about black people. the thing is that black people come up against obstacles that differs from the one u have to cope with. it's lovely to see everyone as a mankind unity, but the truth is, that we differ and some of us have to face specific prejudice :shrug:

young_gunner913
Jun 16th, 2008, 07:58 PM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

Your skin color doesn't make your accomplishments in life important. Recognition for your accomplishments in life doesn't make them important. It matters about how you view them.

winone23
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:00 PM
She does something good and positive and yet people still attack her :rolleyes:

Bingo!! some people really need to get over themselves.

Il Primo!
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:01 PM
:lol: You're funny and a Pova suck up.

Don't make me humiliate your juridic ass, like 132785 posters did before me :)

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Don't make me humiliate your juridic ass, like 132785 posters did before me :)

:haha: Just stop!

If you could humiliate her half as well as you humiliate urself she would be in trouble :haha:

StarDuvallGrant
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:09 PM
I guess we europeans (yes, I'm including you british people :p) will never understand the complexities of american society...

I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:21 PM
I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.

:worship: this is a masterpiece

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Don't make me humiliate your juridic ass, like 132785 posters did before me :)

Shoot your best shot, if you haven't already blown your wad. :lol:

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:26 PM
I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.

I was talking about how much more heated discussions about race tend to be in America. Don't drag me into this mudslinging contest please :lick:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:27 PM
:haha: Just stop!

If you could humiliate her half as well as you humiliate urself she would be in trouble :haha:

:spit:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I guess we europeans (yes, I'm including you british people :p) will never understand the complexities of american society...

This is why we have all been in here trying to enlighten sammy, but I don't think he is open to understand or try to and not be defensive about it.

StarDuvallGrant
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:30 PM
I was talking about how much more heated discussions about race tend to be in America. Don't drag me into this mudslinging contest please :lick:

It's fairly clear who the mudslingers are when they attempted to turn this positive thread/subject matter into something wrong. Your post about not understanding complexities of US society (which I find odd considering race is something we as an international community deal with from time to time) was the post that caught my attention and the one I responded to. Nothing more.

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:32 PM
No, some of us work for a living. :) We are not priviledged to be on summer vacay from school.
I was joking... :p Time zone differences...

Im glad you came and put them in their place because they just refused to listen to what I said. Maybe it was when I said that I am 15. :o :banghead:
I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.
:worship:

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:36 PM
I was joking... :p Time zone differences...

Im glad you came and put them in their place because they just refused to listen to what I said. Maybe it was when I said that I am 15. :o :banghead:



Trust me, there are 5 year olds with more brain than these haters. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:39 PM
I was joking... :p Time zone differences...

Im glad you came and put them in their place because they just refused to listen to what I said. Maybe it was when I said that I am 15. :o :banghead:

:worship:

I know. :)

At 15, you're a lot more mature than some others. :rolleyes:

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:40 PM
It's fairly clear who the mudslingers are when they attempted to turn this positive thread/subject matter into something wrong. Your post about not understanding complexities of US society (which I find odd considering race is something we as an international community deal with from time to time) was the post that caught my attention and the one I responded to. Nothing more.

This entire thread has been turned into something it shouldn't have been, I agree.

But what I was trying to explain was that the whole black/white racial tension is something I have no experience with, and I think most europeans have very little experience with. We have our own singularities, and yes, we do live in an international community, but in my experience on this side of the ocean there is less dialogue about it. There's no european version of Martin Luther King and such if you get what I mean.

Most racial arguments about race in Belgium anyways are about immigrants, now those discussions can get heated :lol:

serenus_2k8
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:46 PM
This entire thread has been turned into something it shouldn't have been, I agree.

But what I was trying to explain was that the whole black/white racial tension is something I have no experience with, and I think most europeans have very little experience with. We have our own singularities, and yes, we do live in an international community, but in my experience on this side of the ocean there is less dialogue about it. There's no european version of Martin Luther King and such if you get what I mean.

Most racial arguments about race in Belgium anyways are about immigrants, now those discussions can get heated :lol:

I think its the same story in the UK. Black and white people get on totally fine where I live, and I dont think there is any HUGE problems in the UK between black and white people, since loooads of white people have black rolemodels (and vice versa)

But immigration...well...thats a different story! :lol:

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:53 PM
This entire thread has been turned into something it shouldn't have been, I agree.

But what I was trying to explain was that the whole black/white racial tension is something I have no experience with, and I think most europeans have very little experience with. We have our own singularities, and yes, we do live in an international community, but in my experience on this side of the ocean there is less dialogue about it. There's no european version of Martin Luther King and such if you get what I mean.

Most racial arguments about race in Belgium anyways are about immigrants, now those discussions can get heated :lol:
Yeah, there's not much racial tension between black and white people anymore. However, go and ask an asian person in England and it will be a different story...

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:55 PM
when i posted what i did i meant no offence. i guess the uk is ahead of the US interms of equality as i dont feel theres the need for a show like this in the uk. i guess we have moved forward more than a lot of other countries, i mean the biggest sport in the uk is football and about 40% of the premiership footballers are black. i guess maybe its more important to americans black people who maybe feel more repressed than black people do in the uk.
i am sorry if i caused anyone offence it was not intended in that way and i think most of you know my posts well enough to know my intensions are not malice. i hope someone will post the programe on youtube as i want to watch it and im always open to the thing people have told me.

Bijoux0021
Jun 16th, 2008, 08:59 PM
what is that thing on her head lol!
It's called hair, STUPID!

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Well, the circle is complete, we're back at the start :lol:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:01 PM
when i posted what i did i meant no offence. i guess the uk is ahead of the US interms of equality as i dont feel theres the need for a show like this in the uk. i guess we have moved forward more than a lot of other countries, i mean the biggest sport in the uk is football and about 40% of the premiership footballers are black. i guess maybe its more important to americans black people who maybe feel more repressed than black people do in the uk.
i am sorry if i caused anyone offence it was not intended in that way and i think most of you know my posts well enough to know my intensions are not malice. i hope someone will post the programe on youtube as i want to watch it and im always open to the thing people have told me.

That took a lot of courage. It was very mature. I hope it was sincere.

RVD
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:06 PM
My god she looks gorgeous!! :hearts:
And this is a GREAT idea for a documentary at a time when the country has the potential to elect the first Black president. :bounce: :worship:
Serena is AMAZING!!! She'll do the sport and the Black communuty proud.

Bijoux0021
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:08 PM
I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.
:worship::worship:

Slutiana
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:09 PM
when i posted what i did i meant no offence. i guess the uk is ahead of the US interms of equality as i dont feel theres the need for a show like this in the uk. i guess we have moved forward more than a lot of other countries, i mean the biggest sport in the uk is football and about 40% of the premiership footballers are black. i guess maybe its more important to americans black people who maybe feel more repressed than black people do in the uk.
i am sorry if i caused anyone offence it was not intended in that way and i think most of you know my posts well enough to know my intensions are not malice. i hope someone will post the programe on youtube as i want to watch it and im always open to the thing people have told me.

:)

I don't know why you got so pissed off with me, I didn't think for one second that you were being racist.... Maybe someone else said something about it but all I did was disagree with what you were saying. But yeah, you are right, some people got really heated and I was thinking. :confused: I guess it's because they come from different countries.

RVD
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:13 PM
It airs every night on about every channel in the US.:worship: :worship:

I can't believe what I'm reading in here.
White people talking about ALL Blacks having attitudes and do not deserve positive exposure? :haha:
Jeevus!
IN-CRE-DI-BLE!

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:18 PM
when i posted what i did i meant no offence. i guess the uk is ahead of the US interms of equality as i dont feel theres the need for a show like this in the uk. i guess we have moved forward more than a lot of other countries, i mean the biggest sport in the uk is football and about 40% of the premiership footballers are black. i guess maybe its more important to americans black people who maybe feel more repressed than black people do in the uk.
i am sorry if i caused anyone offence it was not intended in that way and i think most of you know my posts well enough to know my intensions are not malice. i hope someone will post the programe on youtube as i want to watch it and im always open to the thing people have told me.

well why did you go and do that!!!! now the forum will crash because people are being nice and understanding and rational in a thread about serena...:ras:

lol :lol:

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:22 PM
well why did you go and do that!!!! now the forum will crash because people are being nice and understanding and rational in a thread about serena...:ras:

lol :lol:

lol i think i may have actualy learnt something as well :cool:

Stamp Paid
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM
That took a lot of courage. It was very mature. I hope it was sincere.Despite that apology, there was too much condescension and arrogance in that post for me to cosign it. 40% of soccer players are black in the UK so their racial/ethnic relations are more evolved than here in the US? I guess.

Convoluted
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM
well why did you go and do that!!!! now the forum will crash because people are being nice and understanding and rational in a thread about serena...:ras:

lol :lol:

DOn't worry, someone will come and stir it up a little ;)

RVD
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM
I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.Great statement here! :worship:

And yeah, a lot of it has to do with F*E*A*R.Despite that apology, there was too much condescension and arrogance in that post for me to cosign it. 40% of soccer players are black in the UK so their racial/ethnic relations are more evolved than here in the US? I guess.That makes two of us. I don't but it. Sorry.

SerenaSlams
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:29 PM
Just giving credit where credit is due.... article taken from (blogsite) Serena Williams: Diary of a Grand Slam Champion - http://simplyserenawilliams.blogspot.com

Serena's on the list...."The Black List"

http://i29.tinypic.com/2rwx8x0.jpg

The always caring and concerned Serena Williams contributes to "The Black List." “The Black List” is a documentary which seeks to bury the negative weight of the term by allowing African-Americans to provide an up-to-the-minute answer to the grim origins of “blacklist.” In a film that works as series of living portraits, twenty-five prominent African Americans of various professions, disciplines and backgrounds offer their own stories and insights on the struggles, triumphs and joys of black life in this country and manage to re-define “blacklist” for a new century in the process.

It is comprised of an HBO documentary film, a museum exhibition of photographic portraits, a forthcoming book of those photographs and a national interactive, curriculum-based educational program. The film is presented as a series of vignettes – a kind of living portraiture – in which the subjects address the camera directly as they tell their stories.

Timothy Greenfield-Sanders directed the film in collaboration with Elvis Mitchell who conducted the interviews. Mitchell is never seen on camera or heard, thus allowing the subjects’ own voices to remain the focus. "The Black List" film premieres on HBO August 25th. Each compelling interview serves as a potent illustration of empowerment in the face of unique limitations and broader obstacles. For more information, visit www.blacklistproject.com

Andrew Laeddis
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:32 PM
when i posted what i did i meant no offence. i guess the uk is ahead of the US interms of equality as i dont feel theres the need for a show like this in the uk. i guess we have moved forward more than a lot of other countries, i mean the biggest sport in the uk is football and about 40% of the premiership footballers are black. i guess maybe its more important to americans black people who maybe feel more repressed than black people do in the uk.
i am sorry if i caused anyone offence it was not intended in that way and i think most of you know my posts well enough to know my intensions are not malice. i hope someone will post the programe on youtube as i want to watch it and im always open to the thing people have told me.

Very mature of you

sammy01
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Despite that apology, there was too much condescension and arrogance in that post for me to cosign it. 40% of soccer players are black in the UK so their racial/ethnic relations are more evolved than here in the US? I guess.

well ok then, i said i was wrong and sorry, and gave my reason where i think i went wrong. i realy do think black people are very intergratted in the uk and after this thread i think there a lot more intergratted than the US. i guess it was my ignorance for thinking that other countries had the same social growth as the uk does. i have learn't something

again im sorry if you have been offended i can only appologise and hope you accept it and tell you it was never meant maliciously. if you dont accept it thats cool to.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:45 PM
Despite that apology, there was too much condescension and arrogance in that post for me to cosign it. 40% of soccer players are black in the UK so their racial/ethnic relations are more evolved than here in the US? I guess.

Yeah, I caught that, but one babystep at a time. :lol:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:48 PM
well ok then, i said i was wrong and sorry, and gave my reason where i think i went wrong. i realy do think black people are very intergratted in the uk and after this thread i think there a lot more intergratted than the US. i guess it was my ignorance for thinking that other countries had the same social growth as the uk does. i have learn't something

again im sorry if you have been offended i can only appologise and hope you accept it and tell you it was never meant maliciously. if you dont accept it thats cool to.

Social growth? :tape: If your thoughts about black people in the UK are indicative of the social growth of the UK in comparison the US, I feel sorry for the black people in the UK. :lol:

pov
Jun 16th, 2008, 09:59 PM
i didn't call it racist, i just think that a lot of black people or the way that there portrayed is as victims, there are many very privilaged black people. i think shows like these dont help things because its setting black people aside from white. why cant it just be a list of anybody who has struggled, be it white, black, hispanic ect.
:yeah: I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:02 PM
:yeah: I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.

:haha: I think pov to some degree has a mental disorder.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:02 PM
:yeah: I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.

:weirdo: are you on something???


edit* why do white people always have a problem when blacks try to portray themselves in a positive light...there's nothing wrong with BET cause they degrade themselves on that channel so there's no argument there...show something positive...omg blacks always think they are the victim bla bla bla...where are the shows dedicated to whites bla bla bla....

pov
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:07 PM
:weirdo: are you on something???
:haha: Yeah. I'm on facts. Care to offer any viable refutations or do you ,like the moronic Denise4925, want to simply throw out quips? Do you really think that the terms black and white are intrinsic and accurate descriptions of people?

Stamp Paid
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:09 PM
well ok then, i said i was wrong and sorry, and gave my reason where i think i went wrong. i realy do think black people are very intergratted in the uk and after this thread i think there a lot more intergratted than the US. i guess it was my ignorance for thinking that other countries had the same social growth as the uk does. i have learn't something

again im sorry if you have been offended i can only appologise and hope you accept it and tell you it was never meant maliciously. if you dont accept it thats cool to.Number 1, you could never offend me. I just chuckled at the ignorance, arrogance, and limited perspective that characterized your posts in this threead

I have met and talked to several black people (who's family's origins are from both Africa and the Caribbean) from the UK and they have expressed to me views on race relations in the UK that are completely different from what you've described. And your foolishness in this thread only substantiates their views even more. For one, you confuse integration with assimilation, because a show such as 'The Blacklist' does not indicate any sort of lack of integration in a multicultural society.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:10 PM
:haha: Yeah. I'm on facts. Care to offer any viable refutations or do you ,like the moronic Denise4925, want to simply throw out quips?

What's the point in refuting idiocy?

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:11 PM
What's the point in refuting idiocy?

:worship:

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Number 1, you could never offend me. I just chuckled at the ignorance, arrogance, and limited perspective that characterized your posts in this threead

I have met and talked to several black people (who's family's origins are from both Africa and the Caribbean) from the UK and they have expressed to me views on race relations in the UK that are completely different from what you've described. And your foolishness in this thread only substantiates their views even more. For one, you confuse integration with assimilation, because a show such as 'The Blacklist' does not indicate any sort of lack of integration in a multicultural society.

He's not going to understand that, you realize. But, it was damn good. :worship::worship::worship:

Maybe pov can come up with a fact, not just his racist imagination, to refute what you've just said. Although I highly doubt it.

pov
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:14 PM
What's the point in refuting idiocy?
The point is that you're being meaningless. It's easy to call anything one doesn't like dumb, stupid, etc. We can all do that. So point out what you consider idiocy. Plus how will we people who aren't as smart as you ever learn ;)

pov
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:18 PM
He's not going to understand that, you realize. But, it was damn good. :worship::worship::worship:

Maybe pov can come up with a fact, not just his racist imagination, to refute what you've just said. Although I highly doubt it.???
What I do understand is that my post has nothing to do with the content of the show. And if anyone here is "racist" it would be you. Your views and perspectives on "Black" people are deeming to people in general. Yes I know that is too much for you to comprehend. So stick to the defensive quips - that way you never have to actually move beyond your knee-jerk reactions.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:29 PM
The point is that you're being meaningless. It's easy to call anything one doesn't like dumb, stupid, etc. We can all do that. So point out what you consider idiocy. Plus how will we people who aren't as smart as you ever learn ;)

pov, I'm not 12 years old. If you really want my opinion on what you said, you don't have try to use psychology, just say you want it. :shrug: It's not that hard.

Here's what I consider idiocy:

I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.

Why do I think it's idiocy? First, black people do not have a victim mentality. If anything, it's a survival mentality. Whites are four hundred years ahead of us in literacy, society and economics, yet we've caught up. We are proud of our survival, which is the whole point of the show "Black List". Celebrating a once negative thing and turning it into something positive. That fact that you don't even see how such a connotation can be taken as offensive is in and of itself deluded and moronic.

It is not by happenstance that connatations for the word black are all negative and those for white are all positive. Surely even you can see that. And, tell me why doesn't it occur to you that it's offensive? Do you even see that you make the case, that it's not because of black people that the word black has a negative connotation? It is because of the connotation of the word, along with ignorance and greed of most white people then, that black people were viewed negatively.

Denise4925
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:33 PM
???
What I do understand is that my post has nothing to do with the content of the show. And if anyone here is "racist" it would be you. Your views and perspectives on "Black" people are deeming to people in general. Yes I know that is too much for you to comprehend. So stick to the defensive quips - that way you never have to actually move beyond your knee-jerk reactions.

Really?? Tell me how I could possibly be racist. :) I must have hit a nerve.

Please tell me how you think my views and perspectives on black people are "deeming" to people in general?

Or is it, you don't like black people so in your face about reality. Maybe it's because you feel guilty about how you are and how your ancestors were and don't want to face it? I don't know. You tell me. :lol: Or maybe you want to be able to get away with your little negative and generalizing remarks about black people without having to defend them.

Selah
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:43 PM
:haha: sammy used the "one of my best friends is Black" defense. OMG! Classic!

Why am I surprised that a thread about Serena is this long *scratches ass*.. My god, with some of the comments in here, I feel like I am back in 1989 or some shite. Anyway, I'll calendar this, seems interesting enough.

pov
Jun 16th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Really?? Tell me how I could possibly be racist. :) I must have hit a nerve.

Please tell me how you think my views and perspectives on black people are "deeming" to people in general?

Or is it, you don't like black people so in your face about reality. Maybe it's because you feel guilty about how you are and how your ancestors were and don't want to face it? I don't know. You tell me. :lol: Or maybe you want to be able to get away with your little negative and generalizing remarks about black people without having to defend them.
:haha: :haha: :haha:
Reality? So the way you choose to see things is "reality"? And the "feeling guilty" silliness? Umm - not.

While I'm happy to clarify if needed, I see no need to defend anything. That said, if you can find in my post any negative or generalizing remarks any group as a whole - I will own up to it. Are you willing to do the same?

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:01 PM
i think instead of an ignore list we should have an "idiot box" and make sure pov is at the top of it :weirdo:

RVD
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:38 PM
pov, I'm not 12 years old. If you really want my opinion on what you said, you don't have try to use psychology, just say you want it. :shrug: It's not that hard.

Here's what I consider idiocy:



Why do I think it's idiocy? First, black people do not have a victim mentality. If anything, it's a survival mentality. Whites are four hundred years ahead of us in literacy, society and economics, yet we've caught up. We are proud of our survival, which is the whole point of the show "Black List". Celebrating a once negative thing and turning it into something positive. That fact that you don't even see how such a connotation can be taken as offensive is in and of itself deluded and moronic.

It is not by happenstance that connatations for the word black are all negative and those for white are all positive. Surely even you can see that. And, tell me why doesn't it occur to you that it's offensive? Do you even see that you make the case, that it's not because of black people that the word black has a negative connotation? It is because of the connotation of the word, along with ignorance and greed of most white people then, that black people were viewed negatively.Very well stated Denise. :)

What I find particularly amazing in this case is that it's the same posters who don't want Blacks to be seen in a positive light here on this site [minus a few absent posters :lol: ]
The pattern seems to be...

Assume...
Generalize...
Make prejudicial remarks...
Claim not to be racist...
Claim to have Black friends...
Apologize for the ignorance...
Repeat ignorance in future threads, with the hope that no one remembers. :tape:

But here we have a very positive article and scheduled documentary about Blacks in America, and yet you have ignorant UK folks commenting on our condition here. :scratch: Something's wrong with this picture.

Also, rather than learn a thing or two from previous debates on the Black condition in America, these very same people return with the very same pathetic rhetoric and nonsense, having learned absolutely nothing from previous threads. THAT'S the most frustrating thing here.
Oh well, this is undeniable proof that some people just never learn. :shrug:

mirzalover
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Very well stated Denise. :)

What I find particularly amazing in this case is that it's the same damn podters who don't want Blacks to be seen in a positive light here on this site [minus a few absent posters :lol: ]
The pattern seems to be...

Assume...
Generalize...
Make prejudicial remarks...
Claim not to be racist...
Claim to have Black friends...
Apologize for the ignorance...
Repeat ignorance in future threads, with the hope that no one remembers. :tape:

But here we have a very positive article and scheduled documentary about Blacks in America, and yet you have ignorant UK folks commenting on our condition here. :scratch: Something's wrong with this picture.

Also, rather than learn a thing or two from previous debates on the Black condition in America, these very same people return with the very same pathetic rhetoric and nonsense, having learned absolutely nothing from previous threads. THAT'S the most frustrating thing here.
Oh well, this is undeniable proof that some people just never learn. :shrug:




Wrong!:rolleyes:






Anytime one of these fights happen on here or real life they always say, "I have a black friend". As if that one black friend they have reps every black person in the world.

Marshmallow
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:50 PM
While I agree on the "misrepresented blacks people in the medias" thing, there's something that I don't understand : why Black girls or Boys couldn't be inspired by "role models" that aren't black ?
Personnally, I can be inspired by people who are not of the same color than me, or who have not the same sexuality, social background, cultur etc...than me.So I have a hard time to understand why some would reduce their identity at a color of skin (or sexuality, social origin etc...) ?

I think Box explained it pretty well:

I dno, I guess people would rather a role model who's like them and probabaly went or are going through the same as them (race, sexuality, gender, even age - when you look at the millions of girls who watch miley cyrus' every move.. or whatever her name is...)

IMO, Black boys and girls CAN be inspired by people of different genders, different sexualities and so on, so it's not a matter of not being able. But inspiration is perhaps most powerful when we can identify with the person. It becomes easier to believe that WE too can achieve what they have. Especially when you put this together with social politics / racism. And I think that's why the whole positive role model thing is so important, to really get the message across to black boysand girls that they can do it to, and should aspire higher.

But black boys and girls CAN be inspired by other demographic groups. I think any black person that is a fan of someone who isn't black in any field is a testament to that, and I am 100% sure the majority do.

RVD
Jun 16th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Wrong!:rolleyes:






Anytime one of these fights happen on here or real life they always say, "I have a black friend". As if that one black friend they have reps every black person in the world.My bad...


..."a" Black friend. :tape:

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:06 AM
:yeah: I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.

But pov does it not occur to you that the title of the show is a pun, being used to denote the social crisis that has been faced by the 'black community' for a while and seems to continue to do so? I don't think anyone has argued or seemed to believe that the term black list was deised AFTER black people were 'labelled so'. :shrug: I think most people were aware ofthe former, so using that as an example of the victim mentality is pretty weak IMO.

At the same time, have you considered why two groups of people, one with a beige/egg shell skin tone, and another with a brown skin tone were labelled WHITES and BLACKS respectively? Simple coincidence, or was it a calculated play in view of existing connotations about colours black (evil) and white (good) used as part of the dehumanisation process that helped and justified the mistreating of 'blacks' for centuries. I guess it's an irrelevant point on the whole, but since we're talking about colours.

Denise4925
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:11 AM
But pov does it not occur to you that the title of the show is a pun, being used to denote the social crisis that has been faced by the 'black community' for a while and seems to continue to do so? I don't think anyone has argued or seemed to believe that the term black list was deised AFTER black people were 'labelled so'. :shrug: I think most people were aware ofthe former, so using that as an example of the victim mentality is pretty weak IMO.

At the same time, have you considered why two groups of people, one with a beige/egg shell skin tone, and another with a brown skin tone were labelled WHITES and BLACKS respectively? Simple coincidence, or was it a calculated play in view of existing connotations about colours black (evil) and white (good) used as part of the dehumanisation process that helped and justified the mistreating of 'blacks' for centuries. I guess it's an irrelevant point on the whole, but since we're talking about colours.

I said the same thing, but you said it better. ;)

Aaron.
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:11 AM
This thread is a great example on why Serena and Venus are hated so much :help:

Denise4925
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:23 AM
:haha: :haha: :haha:
Reality? So the way you choose to see things is "reality"? And the "feeling guilty" silliness? Umm - not.

No, the black skin I wear is merely fantasy. I don't live in reality whatsoever. If I could choose to see things a certain way, it wouldn't have anything to do with reality. Trust me. :rolleyes: Whereas you having white skin, can see things whatever way you want to because you don't have to deal with the same issues I do.

While I'm happy to clarify if needed, I see no need to defend anything. That said, if you can find in my post any negative or generalizing remarks any group as a whole - I will own up to it. Are you willing to do the same?


Originally Posted by pov
I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.

Negative and generalizing. Negative because being a "victim" constitutes weakness, which is far from the truth about black people.

Just because you didn't say "all", doesn't mean that "many" isn't a generalization. What constitutes "many" to you? The majority, half, three-fourths? It's got to be more than "a few", which could mean less than the majority or one-fourth of the entire black population.

Also, you never said how my views and perspectives on black people are "deeming" to people in general and how I'm a racist. Answer that and try to refrain from trying to deflect from that.

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:36 AM
I guess we europeans (yes, I'm including you british people :p) will never understand the complexities of american society...

I think its the same story in the UK. Black and white people get on totally fine where I live, and I dont think there is any HUGE problems in the UK between black and white people, since loooads of white people have black rolemodels (and vice versa)

But immigration...well...thats a different story! :lol:

Yeah, there's not much racial tension between black and white people anymore. However, go and ask an asian person in England and it will be a different story...

This entire thread has been turned into something it shouldn't have been, I agree.

But what I was trying to explain was that the whole black/white racial tension is something I have no experience with, and I think most europeans have very little experience with. We have our own singularities, and yes, we do live in an international community, but in my experience on this side of the ocean there is less dialogue about it. There's no european version of Martin Luther King and such if you get what I mean.

Most racial arguments about race in Belgium anyways are about immigrants, now those discussions can get heated :lol:

I beg to differ on some points. I think in Europe as a whole there quite a lot of racial tension, but it gets less attention and isn't limited to the black/white box. For example, not so long ago, weren't ethnic minoirty people in Russia or around there told to stay in their homes for three days because it was Hitler's birthdaycelebreration. Its an extreme example but in my view while of course not everyone is racist, white supremacy is triumphant across Europe as a whole, than in the states where it is confronted head on, perhaps because of the civil rights movement. I mean there are countries that Black people and other minorities fear to go because of their ethnicity, but the entire issue is under rug swept. But of course there are numeorous nations like Switzerland, perhaps sweden that are very anti-racism.

With respect to the UK, I think overt racial tensions are frowned upon, but institutional racism and other forms of oppression are a BIG problem IMO. Racial inequality STILL exists, it's just that the manifestations have changed, and so people generally just accept some of it as everyday. For example, last year the Prime minister went as a far as to say that gun crime and violent crime was a 'Black community issue' when it wasn't, and isn't. Or some of the discussions about black underachievement in schools, and the high exclusion and unemployment rates. I don't think these are good examples but what I'm trying to point out is that we have an internalised system now where groups are discriminated against, and because no obvious wrong is done, people blame the community as a whole for the problem underplaying the influence of negative stereotyping for example in the process. Or how people throw around racist jokes (racism wrapped in humour) - and accuse the offended as being oversensitive or PC. [I'm so tired I don't think I'm making the point clear...]
[And the Brixton riots, 'muggers=black' issues weren't all that long ago.]

I just think that the issue thatthis thread has been touching isn't just american complexitity, it's far reaching. At the very least, IGNORANCE when it comes to race is a HUGE problem.


PS - Martin Luther King Jr. 'movement' time may have just been in the US but ithad a significant role in UK social politics, and Black social identity here too. But thats another issue I guess.

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:40 AM
I said the same thing, but you said it better. ;)

:lol: You were probably as clear or better. My bad for repetition, but I'm in no state to read every post in a 12+ page thread :lol:.

But in skimming, you've made a lot of good points 'mother hen' :tape:

slamchamp
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:41 AM
Renababygurl:heartd:

Denise4925
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:43 AM
:lol: You were probably as clear or better. My bad for repetition, but I'm in no state to read every post in a 12+ page thread :lol:.

But in skimming, you've made a lot of good points 'mother hen' :tape:

;) Thank you :lol:

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:48 AM
This thread is a great example on why Serena and Venus are hated so much :help:

A joke?

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:58 AM
Number 1, you could never offend me. I just chuckled at the ignorance, arrogance, and limited perspective that characterized your posts in this threead

I have met and talked to several black people (who's family's origins are from both Africa and the Caribbean) from the UK and they have expressed to me views on race relations in the UK that are completely different from what you've described. And your foolishness in this thread only substantiates their views even more. For one, you confuse integration with assimilation, because a show such as 'The Blacklist' does not indicate any sort of lack of integration in a multicultural society.


I really like this post, agree totally, though personally would have phrased it in a more cute and diplomatic way :D. Wished I'd have seen it sooner, so I wouldn't have bothered posting a much before.

starin
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:59 AM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!

:rolls::rolls::rolls:

But congrats on overcoming what you did to get where you are. I want to give some advice but not knowing anything about your life i'll refrain. So instead, congrats. :worship:


Serena looks hot and yes her hair is obviously a weaver or a wig. can't really tell. but she looks so great in the pic :hearts::hearts:
Can't wait to watch this documentary, anyone know when it's coming out???

Aaron.
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:06 AM
A joke? I mean the posts :o

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:10 AM
I mean the posts :o

Which posts, I thought most of Serena's fans came off well. They were some of the most articulate. It's chakvetadze fans that should be ashamed, just look at the filth she attracts... I'm just kidding.

This thread is a mess though.

I forgot to add that Serena looks FAB. Her Photos of late have been great!

d_crawford3
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:24 AM
although im not a big serena fan she looks really, really nice in this pic, big ups to her

spiritedenergy
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:46 AM
When racial minorities will no longer have to affirm their identities to counter hundreds of years of oppression, discrimination and prejudice from whites.

:worship:

I think both in Europe and America there is not much integration yet... but in America it's probably talked about more. And I agree with who stated that integration does not equal assimilation. It's understandable that different nationalities and racial groups are kind of closed to each other, as long as they have equal rights and are treated equally.

Monirena Wiles
Jun 17th, 2008, 02:22 AM
whats to comment on the show is stupid and contridictory, if it was 25 white people that have made something of themselves recalling their struggles excluding black people from the list it would be wrong.
im white come from a broken home and have been bullied for various reason and have struggled to make something of my life but im not black so i guess its not as impressive!
I'm also white, but unlike you I get it. Almost every list made by mainstream magazines is a list of white people. They will sprinkle in one or two blacks but that is it. When was the last time a black man was named the sexiest man alive? Never. If black people sat back and waited to be recognized by us white people then they would spend most of their lives waiting.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 17th, 2008, 02:52 AM
I'm also white, but unlike you I get it. Almost every list made by mainstream magazines is a list of white people. They will sprinkle in one or two blacks but that is it. When was the last time a black man was named the sexiest man alive? Never. If black people sat back and waited to be recognized by us white people then they would spend most of their lives waiting.

oh my :worship:

darrinbaker00
Jun 17th, 2008, 04:34 AM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?
Not surprisingly, you miss the point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklist

As stated in the opening post, the documentary aims to put a positive spin on a term that has historically had a negative connotation.

Stamp Paid
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:28 AM
Then why not include Asians, Latinos or Native Americans? It sounds like "Blacklist" is being used racially.Why the hell does it matter to you, either way???

Just accept the fact that you disagree with it and pump out of the thread, geez. You children are so simple.

mirzalover
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:29 AM
Then why not include Asians, Latinos or Native Americans? It sounds like "Blacklist" is being used racially.

Because they arent black. They can all make a list if they want to and Im pretty sure most people in here who have a problem with the "Blacklist" wouldnt care:).

mckyle.
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:30 AM
*drama*

mckyle.
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:39 AM
http://i27.tinypic.com/11lqu5e.jpg http://i31.tinypic.com/ehao84.jpg http://i27.tinypic.com/6p5j0o.jpg http://i25.tinypic.com/2eebkoi.jpg

Stamp Paid
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:49 AM
Lmao

mckyle.
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:50 AM
Danke King :)

mal
Jun 17th, 2008, 06:51 AM
:yeah: I think many "Black" people do have some degree of a victim mentality. The name of the show is an example. It doesn't occur to many that the color black had various connotations long before it was a term used to describe people. Same with the color white.


Well I think pov has a point.
White people were slaves in Africa long before Black people became slaves to moslems.
Facts are the worst thing to be in the USA is a Black man, even worse than being a woman or black woman.
Same thing as a pecking order. Asian Elephants were on this planet before African elephants appeared, but all elephants are now of equal status, whether wild or domesticated, whether they can write their name or not, elephants still rank below humans.

serenus_2k8
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:28 AM
Because people keep quoting me and replying to me. I wouldn't have said anything else if they didn't.

BTW, Serena's hands are very veiny, like a man's.

:rolleyes: I knew when Henin fans joined the thread it was not gonna get any better.

Serena needs a strong grip to hit the ball as well as she did, hence she has a good blood supply to her hand muscles, its not manly at all, moron.


The racism stuff runs too deep to discuss and clear up on a tennis forum. The bottom line is if Serena found a cure for cancer, the haters would attack her in exactly the same way they do now. They dont care what she does or why she does it, they find it far easier to insult her than to praise her and always will.

homogenius
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:36 AM
I think Box explained it pretty well:



IMO, Black boys and girls CAN be inspired by people of different genders, different sexualities and so on, so it's not a matter of not being able. But inspiration is perhaps most powerful when we can identify with the person. It becomes easier to believe that WE too can achieve what they have. Especially when you put this together with social politics / racism. And I think that's why the whole positive role model thing is so important, to really get the message across to black boysand girls that they can do it to, and should aspire higher.

But black boys and girls CAN be inspired by other demographic groups. I think any black person that is a fan of someone who isn't black in any field is a testament to that, and I am 100% sure the majority do.

lol
Of course they can.It was a kinda rethoric question.
I agree that people need to identify with successfull people and that positives representations of some minorities (like Black people here)are missing in the medias.
Gays are lacking of these representations too (most of gays grew up watching tv and the few time they saw stories with gays it was some gross representation or some impossible love with generally the gay dying at the end).

I understand the need to be "pride" of for Blacks people in America, gays everywhere, and some other minorities who suffered and are badly represented in medias.It pay off cause things have changed (slowly but still...).
However, I'm not a "fan" of the "communauty state of mind" and I think there are side effects in things like this programm, or say the gay pride for example.
What questionned me is why some Blacks keep positionning themselves as Blacks (when they're more than just a color of skin) or Gays as gays (when they're more than just a sexuality's choice) ? Isn't that what some Whites in America want ? (or what the heterosexual majority for the gays).Keeping people in boxes they have created ?
I'm not sure that this positionning (besides the fact that it's reducing people's identity)is the best way for people coming from some minorities to be assimililated and it certainly doesn't help people to live together despite their differences...(just imo)

Stamp Paid
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:36 AM
...with her self-proclaimed "manhands" and all!

Because people keep quoting me and replying to me. I wouldn't have said anything else if they didn't.

BTW, Serena's hands are very veiny, like a man's.Late troll.

starin
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:38 AM
Well I think pov has a point.
White people were slaves in Africa long before Black people became slaves to moslems.
Facts are the worst thing to be in the USA is a Black man, even worse than being a woman or black woman.
Same thing as a pecking order. Asian Elephants were on this planet before African elephants appeared, but all elephants are now of equal status, whether wild or domesticated, whether they can write their name or not, elephants still rank below humans.

:haha:
i'm not sure if you intended this to be funny but lol. :worship:
otherwise if you're serious then :tape::help:

Stamp Paid
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:58 AM
Danke King :)Welcome bish

Destiny
Jun 17th, 2008, 08:48 AM
when i posted what i did i meant no offence. i guess the uk is ahead of the US interms of equality as i dont feel theres the need for a show like this in the uk. i guess we have moved forward more than a lot of other countries, i mean the biggest sport in the uk is football and about 40% of the premiership footballers are black. i guess maybe its more important to americans black people who maybe feel more repressed than black people do in the uk.
i am sorry if i caused anyone offence it was not intended in that way and i think most of you know my posts well enough to know my intensions are not malice. i hope someone will post the programe on youtube as i want to watch it and im always open to the thing people have told me.

:haha:

There is a need.

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 10:48 AM
lol
Of course they can.It was a kinda rethoric question.
I agree that people need to identify with successfull people and that positives representations of some minorities (like Black people here)are missing in the medias.
Gays are lacking of these representations too (most of gays grew up watching tv and the few time they saw stories with gays it was some gross representation or some impossible love with generally the gay dying at the end).

I understand the need to be "pride" of for Blacks people in America, gays everywhere, and some other minorities who suffered and are badly represented in medias.It pay off cause things have changed (slowly but still...).
However, I'm not a "fan" of the "communauty state of mind" and I think there are side effects in things like this programm, or say the gay pride for example.
What questionned me is why some Blacks keep positionning themselves as Blacks (when they're more than just a color of skin) or Gays as gays (when they're more than just a sexuality's choice) ? Isn't that what some Whites in America want ? (or what the heterosexual majority for the gays).Keeping people in boxes they have created ?
I'm not sure that this positionning (besides the fact that it's reducing people's identity)is the best way for people coming from some minorities to be assimililated and it certainly doesn't help people to live together despite their differences...(just imo)

IMO, assuming we accept the NEED/PREFERENCE for black people and gay people to have positive role models fom their own communities, this is how I see these pride events. I might totally agree with you if we were beginning with a level playing feild, but in spite of the illusion of inclusion as some posters have stated before me there is some work to be done before we have some kind of harmonious integrated communities. Specifically looking at the black and gay communities, both are STILL facing some kind of a crisis, rooted in their reactionary identities that have been formed as a product of oppression (dating back years, decades and maybe centuries). It seems to me at least, that there are maldaptive issues at the very root of what it means to be black and to be gay for a lot of people in these communities, that manifest in their aspirations (low), certain behaviours that some think are the norm/expected that are maladptive for their communtities (gun crime, vanity for example) and so on.

In view of this, IMO Black pride and gay pride events and acts such as the black list are still needed today to sort of act as some damage control. To help raise aspirations and to expand the horizons of those members of the communitiy that have fallen into traps. To help raise them on a social level, so we can actually have a level playing field, and get to a place where both group members are empowered enough to first realise that they can achieve too, and then be inspired by people from all backgrounds in the feilds that they want to excell in. I think a lot of people mistakenly think, now that slavery and racism are frowned upon that things are fine now, but I can assure you it's not the case. Its not a victim mentality as though white people are calculating trying to keep black people down, or that heteros are trying to keep gays in limited positions (e.g. gays aren't seen as wholesome people these days, just the latest fashion accessory for their best heterosexual female friend :tape:) - but the are internalised implict discriminatory issues that remain.

Thats why I think pride stuff has a role still, or at they will if they're done correctly. I think Blacklist could help raise the aspirations of some youths.

Hope that makes some sense, my view anyway.

I will never understand why there are those who are almost afraid of others expressing positive feelings, thoughts about themselves, their culture and history. It's as if the idea that anyone who isn't white/European that chooses to show pride is somehow bad and this 'how dare they' attitude comes out. Those of you who have this knee jerk reaction should look inside to see why you have problems with people who simply show pride and why you can't tell there is a difference or need for this.

I like this post too, some truth in it, but sometimes I think that 'how dare they' attitude is rooted in absolute ignorance and the belief that the world is fine now. The unconscious maintenance of inequalities along gender, racial, sexual lines. It's amazing and depressing.

mal
Jun 17th, 2008, 11:05 AM
lol

Gays are lacking of these representations too (most of gays grew up watching tv and the few time they saw stories with gays it was some gross representation or some impossible love with generally the gay dying at the end).


My mother, who was really an academic despite her only being a nurse, who grew up before the war, and who learned Latin despite coming to it late and having to catch up, and who incidentally shares a Christian name with Maria Sharapova, Mary, and was the most kind, caring honest and trusting person you could possibly imagine, and whose face I could not recall, had I not painted her image to have permanently on my wall, the wall of her and my fathers (both deceased) house, always lamented the use of the word gay when it was applied to homosexuals, and said it was the ruin of a perfectly good word.

debopero
Jun 17th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Well I think pov has a point.
White people were slaves in Africa long before Black people became slaves to moslems.
Facts are the worst thing to be in the USA is a Black man, even worse than being a woman or black woman.
Same thing as a pecking order. Asian Elephants were on this planet before African elephants appeared, but all elephants are now of equal status, whether wild or domesticated, whether they can write their name or not, elephants still rank below humans.

I needed this laugh :haha: .

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 17th, 2008, 11:32 AM
My mother, who was really an academic despite her only being a nurse, who grew up before the war, and who learned Latin despite coming to it late and having to catch up, and who incidentally shares a Christian name with Maria Sharapova, Mary, and was the most kind, caring honest and trusting person you could possibly imagine, and whose face I could not recall, had I not painted her image to have permanently on my wall, the wall of her and my fathers (both deceased) house, always lamented the use of the word gay when it was applied to homosexuals, and said it was the ruin of a perfectly good word.

are you family to sweetcleo :awww:

mal
Jun 17th, 2008, 11:37 AM
are you family to sweetcleo :awww:

I'm just quoting my well respected mother.
No I have no family.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 17th, 2008, 11:39 AM
I'm just quoting my well respected mother.

ok....

No I have no family.

:weirdo:

winone23
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:30 PM
lol
Of course they can.It was a kinda rethoric question.
I agree that people need to identify with successfull people and that positives representations of some minorities (like Black people here)are missing in the medias.
Gays are lacking of these representations too (most of gays grew up watching tv and the few time they saw stories with gays it was some gross representation or some impossible love with generally the gay dying at the end).

I understand the need to be "pride" of for Blacks people in America, gays everywhere, and some other minorities who suffered and are badly represented in medias.It pay off cause things have changed (slowly but still...).
However, I'm not a "fan" of the "communauty state of mind" and I think there are side effects in things like this programm, or say the gay pride for example.
What questionned me is why some Blacks keep positionning themselves as Blacks (when they're more than just a color of skin) or Gays as gays (when they're more than just a sexuality's choice) ? Isn't that what some Whites in America want ? (or what the heterosexual majority for the gays).Keeping people in boxes they have created ?
I'm not sure that this positionning (besides the fact that it's reducing people's identity)is the best way for people coming from some minorities to be assimililated and it certainly doesn't help people to live together despite their differences...(just imo)

Blacks keep positioning themselves as Blacks because they are Black!!! What are Blacks to do deny that they are Black??? Being Black is not just about skin color, it's about our history, heritage, traditions, etc.... No matter what way you spin it at the end of the day we are all different and our backgrounds/races/heritages greatly influence our identities, it makes no sense to pretend otherwise.

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Blacks keep positioning themselves as Blacks because they are Black!!! What are Blacks to do deny that they are Black??? Being Black is not just about skin color, it's about our history, heritage, traditions, etc.... No matter what way you spin it at the end of the day we are all different and our backgrounds/races/heritages greatly influence our identities, it makes no sense to pretend otherwise.

A great point too. The way people of African descent / of the African Diaspora community have been reduced to a skin colour, when they do have cultural heritages, and a right to be culturally centred in multicultural communities - just makes the whole issue confusing for many to understand.

Thanx for reminding winone.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 17th, 2008, 12:52 PM
A great point too. The way people of African descent / of the African Diaspora community have been reduced to a skin colour, when they do have cultural heritages, and a right to be culturally centred in multicultural communities - just makes the whole issue confusing for many to understand.

Thanx for reminding winone.

there is also a problem when we try to be positive and make something of ourselves...we are accused of forgetting said heritage and trying to be white....

Marshmallow
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:12 PM
there is also a problem when we try to be positive and make something of ourselves...we are accused of forgetting said heritage and trying to be white....

I know, this is what I'm referring to when I speak about maladaptive black identities based on oppression. Some people are in a place where they think success = being white, and this is a very real problem.

In truth, I don't think you have to chose between either, you can be culturally centred and still have a strong sense of black/afrocentric identity and aspire to achieve so much. But what has to chance is what everyday youths think being black is. Its part of the unconscious and implicit inequality - black males were so marginalised that the identity they internalised and the ideas about black masculinity really did more harm tothem than good. This is part ofthe social crisis, and that'swhat has to change. There shouldn't be a dilema between success and being black, it's possible to be both.

Hope it makes sense, there's a lotof worktobe done. But it's exciting, change is starting. And I think this show Blacklist has a positive role in the process.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 17th, 2008, 01:24 PM
I know, this is what I'm referring to when I speak about maladaptive black identities based on oppression. Some people are in a place where they think success = being white, and this is a very real problem.

In truth, I don't think you have to chose between either, you can be culturally centred and still have a strong sense of black/afrocentric identity and aspire to achieve so much. But what has to chance is what everyday youths think being black is. Its part of the unconscious and implicit inequality - black males were so marginalised that the identity they internalised and the ideas about black masculinity really did more harm tothem than good. This is part ofthe social crisis, and that'swhat has to change. There shouldn't be a dilema between success and being black, it's possible to be both.

Hope it makes sense, there's a lotof worktobe done. But it's exciting, change is starting. And I think this show Blacklist has a positive role in the process.

good rep coming ;)

Cam'ron Giles
Jun 17th, 2008, 02:39 PM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?


It's on every channel everyday...enjoy!!!!!

harloo
Jun 17th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Isn't the purpose of watching a documentary to hear the perspectives from those who have experienced important historical events? It seems most posters in this thread are projecting their own insecurities and prejudiced beliefs on the, "Black List" title. Despite several explanations of the intention of this term the same posters continue discussing racial topics which have no relevance to the subject at hand. I find most documentaries enlightening and a way for me to learn the mentality of people who directly or indirectly experienced institutional racism, discrimination, sexism, or unfair treatment regardless of skin color.

For those of you who are worried about this documentary, please take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why? If you're honest, you'll most likely find that this documentary has nothing to do with your feelings about race. Somewhere along the way, you've internalized preconceived notions about African Americans which has caused resentment.

yassiesj20
Jun 17th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I'm getting really tired of this shit. Why can't black people celebrate themselves without everyone else moannig about it.?

Slutiana
Jun 17th, 2008, 03:11 PM
Wrong!:rolleyes:






Anytime one of these fights happen on here or real life they always say, "I have a black friend". As if that one black friend they have reps every black person in the world.
:haha:
I beg to differ on some points. I think in Europe as a whole there quite a lot of racial tension, but it gets less attention and isn't limited to the black/white box. For example, not so long ago, weren't ethnic minoirty people in Russia or around there told to stay in their homes for three days because it was Hitler's birthdaycelebreration. Its an extreme example but in my view while of course not everyone is racist, white supremacy is triumphant across Europe as a whole, than in the states where it is confronted head on, perhaps because of the civil rights movement. I mean there are countries that Black people and other minorities fear to go because of their ethnicity, but the entire issue is under rug swept. But of course there are numeorous nations like Switzerland, perhaps sweden that are very anti-racism.

With respect to the UK, I think overt racial tensions are frowned upon, but institutional racism and other forms of oppression are a BIG problem IMO. Racial inequality STILL exists, it's just that the manifestations have changed, and so people generally just accept some of it as everyday. For example, last year the Prime minister went as a far as to say that gun crime and violent crime was a 'Black community issue' when it wasn't, and isn't. Or some of the discussions about black underachievement in schools, and the high exclusion and unemployment rates. I don't think these are good examples but what I'm trying to point out is that we have an internalised system now where groups are discriminated against, and because no obvious wrong is done, people blame the community as a whole for the problem underplaying the influence of negative stereotyping for example in the process. Or how people throw around racist jokes (racism wrapped in humour) - and accuse the offended as being oversensitive or PC. [I'm so tired I don't think I'm making the point clear...]
[And the Brixton riots, 'muggers=black' issues weren't all that long ago.]

I just think that the issue thatthis thread has been touching isn't just american complexitity, it's far reaching. At the very least, IGNORANCE when it comes to race is a HUGE problem.


PS - Martin Luther King Jr. 'movement' time may have just been in the US but ithad a significant role in UK social politics, and Black social identity here too. But thats another issue I guess.
Yeah, reading through some of my responses and other people, I realise that I was wrong in agreeing with that sammy guy.

I suppose another example of institutional racism in England is the whole stop-and-search fiasco. I think you are right, definatly. :worship:
I'm also white, but unlike you I get it. Almost every list made by mainstream magazines is a list of white people. They will sprinkle in one or two blacks but that is it. When was the last time a black man was named the sexiest man alive? Never. If black people sat back and waited to be recognized by us white people then they would spend most of their lives waiting.

:worship:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 17th, 2008, 03:21 PM
I'm getting really tired of this shit. Why can't black people celebrate themselves without everyone else moannig about it.?

Because, "we freed them, let them be educated next to our children(well not mine they go to pvt school) gave them the right to vote, let them ride in the front of the bus, and even eat in the same resturaunts. What more do they want? I mean cmon now they keep throwing it in our faces with programs like this. I'm fed up.:help:

Isn't it bad enough the jews win an Oscar every year for a documentary on the holacaust. :tape:

yassiesj20
Jun 17th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Because, "we freed them, let them be educated next to our children(well not mine they go to pvt school) gave them the right to vote, let them ride in the front of the bus, and even eat in the same resturaunts. What more do they want? I mean cmon now they keep throwing it in our faces with programs like this. I'm fed up.:help:

Isn't it bad enough the jews win an Oscar every year for a documentary on the holacaust. :tape:

You see,it's comments like yours that piss me off. Everyday,black people are achieving something positive, but no,the mainstream can't allow that to be covered-they have to accentuate the negative and then have the nerve to say we have a chip on our shoulder, when we (rightly)complain. This 'Black List' is a way of showing that we are mobile-why is that such a big problem?:mad:

sunset
Jun 17th, 2008, 03:44 PM
what is that thing on her head lol!

It's called a wig. :lol: :lol: :lol:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 17th, 2008, 03:52 PM
You see,it's comments like yours that piss me off. Everyday,black people are achieving something positive, but no,the mainstream can't allow that to be covered-they have to accentuate the negative and then have the nerve to say we have a chip on our shoulder, when we (rightly)complain. This 'Black List' is a way of showing that we are mobile-why is that such a big problem?:mad:

It's called sarcasm sweety. :wavey::wavey:

yassiesj20
Jun 17th, 2008, 04:00 PM
It's called sarcasm sweety. :wavey::wavey:

Really? I wouldn't have guessed:rolleyes:

Matt01
Jun 17th, 2008, 04:28 PM
Blacks keep positioning themselves as Blacks because they are Black!!! What are Blacks to do deny that they are Black???


I think you missed the point. No one said that they should deny that they are black. :rolleyes:

sweetpeas
Jun 17th, 2008, 05:13 PM
When does "The White List" documentary air on HBO?

It"s call sex in the city!!!!!!!!

OLD YELLOW

Iwant to live...Hiltler,,,,people mag,,,,Vogue Look White house,,,,the hampton,,,,,,C

DA FOREHAND
Jun 17th, 2008, 07:42 PM
Really? I wouldn't have guessed:rolleyes:

my brand of humor/sarcasm isn't for everyone. either you catch it or you don't.

OsloErik
Jun 17th, 2008, 08:27 PM
That's such a great photo! I miss seeing Serena look classy and elegant! Get back into the high-fashion mags, Serena.

Melly Flew Us
Jun 17th, 2008, 08:35 PM
well i think its a 2 way thing, alot of black people walkaround thinking the world owes them something and with a chip on their shoulder....
bam! just exposed your own self;well done, you should feel proud of that achievement and i applaud you.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 18th, 2008, 01:37 AM
funny how every thread on Serena has multiple pages.

cocco80
Jun 18th, 2008, 01:51 AM
I'm getting really tired of this shit. Why can't black people celebrate themselves without everyone else moannig about it.?

Because some white pricks don't appreciate the fact they are losing the power after so many centuries. They are afraid that they won't be able to feel superior anymore cuz nowdays it's so obvious that they're not (and that they never were).

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Well I think pov has a point.
White people were slaves in Africa long before Black people became slaves to moslems.
Facts are the worst thing to be in the USA is a Black man, even worse than being a woman or black woman.
Same thing as a pecking order. Asian Elephants were on this planet before African elephants appeared, but all elephants are now of equal status, whether wild or domesticated, whether they can write their name or not, elephants still rank below humans.

:confused: First, what white people were slaves in Africa before black people were slaves of other Africans? And, why did you say that blacks became slaves of moslems? And what do elephants have to do with any of this? :scratch:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 18th, 2008, 08:58 PM
leave that alone denise....that one still has everyone baffled :tape:

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 09:04 PM
lol
Of course they can.It was a kinda rethoric question.
I agree that people need to identify with successfull people and that positives representations of some minorities (like Black people here)are missing in the medias.
Gays are lacking of these representations too (most of gays grew up watching tv and the few time they saw stories with gays it was some gross representation or some impossible love with generally the gay dying at the end).

I understand the need to be "pride" of for Blacks people in America, gays everywhere, and some other minorities who suffered and are badly represented in medias.It pay off cause things have changed (slowly but still...).
However, I'm not a "fan" of the "communauty state of mind" and I think there are side effects in things like this programm, or say the gay pride for example.
What questionned me is why some Blacks keep positionning themselves as Blacks (when they're more than just a color of skin) or Gays as gays (when they're more than just a sexuality's choice) ? Isn't that what some Whites in America want ? (or what the heterosexual majority for the gays).Keeping people in boxes they have created ?
I'm not sure that this positionning (besides the fact that it's reducing people's identity)is the best way for people coming from some minorities to be assimililated and it certainly doesn't help people to live together despite their differences...(just imo)

Why do Irishman keep "positioning" themselves to be Irish? Why do Italians keep "positioning" themselves to be Italian? Why do Asians keep "positioning" themselves at Asians? Why do Latins or Hispanics keep "positioning" themselves as such?

Also, why is it that people tend to compare the experience of gay people in American society to that of black people?

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 09:13 PM
IMO, assuming we accept the NEED/PREFERENCE for black people and gay people to have positive role models fom their own communities, this is how I see these pride events. I might totally agree with you if we were beginning with a level playing feild, but in spite of the illusion of inclusion as some posters have stated before me there is some work to be done before we have some kind of harmonious integrated communities. Specifically looking at the black and gay communities, both are STILL facing some kind of a crisis, rooted in their reactionary identities that have been formed as a product of oppression (dating back years, decades and maybe centuries). It seems to me at least, that there are maldaptive issues at the very root of what it means to be black and to be gay for a lot of people in these communities, that manifest in their aspirations (low), certain behaviours that some think are the norm/expected that are maladptive for their communtities (gun crime, vanity for example) and so on.


See, I don't understand this. White gays have done it all and can do whatever they want. For white gays, nothing like skin color can get in the way of people acknowledging what they can do, because no one sees anything obvious at first glance. This is where I have a problem with comparing gays and blacks. Black people are judged at first glance.

I understood gay pride to mean that they no longer hide and come out to everyone. That is totally different from aspiring people to be all they can be, despite the treatment received because of the color of their skin.

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I know, this is what I'm referring to when I speak about maladaptive black identities based on oppression. Some people are in a place where they think success = being white, and this is a very real problem.

In truth, I don't think you have to chose between either, you can be culturally centred and still have a strong sense of black/afrocentric identity and aspire to achieve so much. But what has to chance is what everyday youths think being black is. Its part of the unconscious and implicit inequality - black males were so marginalised that the identity they internalised and the ideas about black masculinity really did more harm tothem than good. This is part ofthe social crisis, and that'swhat has to change. There shouldn't be a dilema between success and being black, it's possible to be both.

Hope it makes sense, there's a lotof worktobe done. But it's exciting, change is starting. And I think this show Blacklist has a positive role in the process.

Love it!! :worship::worship::worship:

darrinbaker00
Jun 18th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Why do Irishman keep "positioning" themselves to be Irish? Why do Italians keep "positioning" themselves to be Italian? Why do Asians keep "positioning" themselves at Asians? Why do Latins or Hispanics keep "positioning" themselves as such?

Also, why is it that people tend to compare the experience of gay people in American society to that of black people?
I've been wondering about that myself. The fact of the matter is, gay white people have a way to escape from the nonsense (don't ask, don't tell). Fair-skinned Jews have several ways to escape from the nonsense (change to a European surname, change their religion). Most black people don't have those options, so we're subject to the nonsense 24/7.

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 09:18 PM
Because, "we freed them, let them be educated next to our children(well not mine they go to pvt school) gave them the right to vote, let them ride in the front of the bus, and even eat in the same resturaunts. What more do they want? I mean cmon now they keep throwing it in our faces with programs like this. I'm fed up.:help:

Isn't it bad enough the jews win an Oscar every year for a documentary on the holacaust. :tape:

:lol::tape::help::lol:

Marshmallow
Jun 18th, 2008, 10:56 PM
See, I don't understand this. White gays have done it all and can do whatever they want. For white gays, nothing like skin color can get in the way of people acknowledging what they can do, because no one sees anything obvious at first glance. This is where I have a problem with comparing gays and blacks. Black people are judged at first glance.

I understood gay pride to mean that they no longer hide and come out to everyone. That is totally different from aspiring people to be all they can be, despite the treatment received because of the color of their skin.

I can go further and say that sometimes I've actually seen members of the gay community trying to leech onto the black equality movement and using it when they feel victimised, yet show no support to the movement itself. I really dislike comparing the black struggle with the gay struggle partly because of this, because it sometimes appeared as though the gay community were hiding behind and trying to benefit behind the the hard work and suffering of black people across the years.

But that said, the reason I decided to use them in the same sentence aside from the fact that I was responding to Homogenius who make the link, there are SOME parallels, if not perfect. I think the dynamics of oppression in general (including misogyny) are very similar, the difference being that if you put social groups on a hierarchy, white gay males and white women will always come above black people as a whole, and so experience some levels of privilige denied to others.

The similarity that I see with the gay community is the idenity issue, and the problem of creating identities in reaction to oppression. In the gay community IMO you have a kind of superficiality problem, no positive gay identity that young gay boys can try to develop with, resulting with a set of, kind of heterosexist assimilation identities. The frowing upon of effeminate gay men/their marginalisation within the gay community, sex roles, promiscuity/std issue (however real that might be) etc... Now, these issue aren't like those experienced by black men and can be conbsidered less serious because black men are having trouble finding jobs and staying out of jail, whereas the identity issues experienced by gay men might only affect their social lives. But IMO they're still identity issues which is why I sometimes compair.

But I do so reluctantly, I don't like the comparisions either. I think if I had to rank issues, as a black gay male - I think the racism problems are far greater and more serious, to me anyway.

pov
Jun 18th, 2008, 11:18 PM
Blacks keep positioning themselves as Blacks because they are Black!!! What are Blacks to do deny that they are Black??? Being Black is not just about skin color, it's about our history, heritage, traditions, etc.... No matter what way you spin it at the end of the day we are all different and our backgrounds/races/heritages greatly influence our identities, it makes no sense to pretend otherwise.

Race is a fiction. "Black" as a race is a fiction! "White" as a race is a fiction. It often seems to be overlooked that all these fictions were devised by people who were "White" It's great that "Black" people will go on about "White" this, that, etc while buying into, and defending, much of the crap devised by some archaic "White" scientists.

There is often as much if not more difference among people who identify within those categories as there is between the categories.

The idea that being proud of, and respecting oneself, is rooted in any sort of constructed group identity is false. It is also popular and an effective means of control.


At the end of the day, you will see what you choose to see.:)

ghost world
Jun 18th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Ms. Williams is looking divine, per usual. I approve. :worship:

To the poster above,

You're evaluation of social constructs is naive, to say the least, and kind of has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

[Edit]

Or what Denise4925 said.

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 11:30 PM
I can go further and say that sometimes I've actually seen members of the gay community trying to leech onto the black equality movement and using it when they feel victimised, yet show no support to the movement itself. I really dislike comparing the black struggle with the gay struggle partly because of this, because it sometimes appeared as though the gay community were hiding behind and trying to benefit behind the the hard work and suffering of black people across the years.

But that said, the reason I decided to use them in the same sentence aside from the fact that I was responding to Homogenius who make the link, there are SOME parallels, if not perfect. I think the dynamics of oppression in general (including misogyny) are very similar, the difference being that if you put social groups on a hierarchy, white gay males and white women will always come above black people as a whole, and so experience some levels of privilige denied to others.

The similarity that I see with the gay community is the idenity issue, and the problem of creating identities in reaction to oppression. In the gay community IMO you have a kind of superficiality problem, no positive gay identity that young gay boys can try to develop with, resulting with a set of, kind of heterosexist assimilation identities. The frowing upon of effeminate gay men/their marginalisation within the gay community, sex roles, promiscuity/std issue (however real that might be) etc... Now, these issue aren't like those experienced by black men and can be conbsidered less serious because black men are having trouble finding jobs and staying out of jail, whereas the identity issues experienced by gay men might only affect their social lives. But IMO they're still identity issues which is why I sometimes compair.

But I do so reluctantly, I don't like the comparisions either. I think if I had to rank issues, as a black gay male - I think the racism problems are far greater and more serious, to me anyway.

Thanks for the clarification, Marsh. I understand what you're saying now and I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Denise4925
Jun 18th, 2008, 11:34 PM
Race is a fiction. "Black" as a race is a fiction! "White" as a race is a fiction. It often seems to be overlooked that all these fictions were devised by people who were "White" It's great that "Black" people will go on about "White" this, that, etc while buying into, and defending, much of the crap devised by some archaic "White" scientists.

There is often as much if not more difference among people who identify within those categories as there is between the categories.

The idea that being proud of, and respecting oneself, is rooted in any sort of constructed group identity is false. It is also popular and an effective means of control.


At the end of the day, you will see what you choose to see.:)

We are talking about black as a culture and heritage, not just as a race. Similar to the Irish, the Italians, the Scots, the Hispanics, the Chinese, the Japanese, etc.

But, at the end of the day, you will see what you choose to see.

ghost world
Jun 19th, 2008, 12:21 AM
:lol: at the afroromance banner (http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1113/lolic2.png) at the top of the page. Kind of funny, all things considered.

pov
Jun 19th, 2008, 12:21 AM
We are talking about black as a culture and heritage, not just as a race. Similar to the Irish, the Italians, the Scots, the Hispanics, the Chinese, the Japanese, etc.

But, at the end of the day, you will see what you choose to see.

Denise,
Instead of "fighting" I'm going to see if I can do my part to make this a discussion.

So . . . yeah, I agree that, no more or less than anyone else, I will see what I choose to see. However I did see that "Black" is also being talked about as a culture and heritage. My perspective is that it isn't - nor is "White" a culture and heritage. Note that you mention Irish, Scots, Chinese, Japanese. Those nationalities do encompass cultures and heritages. Yet even within those nationalities there are differing cultural traditions.

Marshmallow
Jun 19th, 2008, 12:35 AM
Denise,
Instead of "fighting" I'm going to see if I can do my part to make this a discussion.

So . . . yeah, I agree that, no more or less than anyone else, I will see what I choose to see. However I did see that "Black" is also being talked about as a culture and heritage. My perspective is that it isn't - nor is "White" a culture and heritage. Note that you mention Irish, Scots, Chinese, Japanese. Those nationalities do encompass cultures and heritages. Yet even within those nationalities there are differing cultural traditions.

I still don't see the contribution to the discussion by getting stuck on the language used. It seems pretty clear that people are talking about patterns in experience by social groups, particularly here the experiences of 'black people' or dark skinned people of African descent. Moreover the focus has been on how this group has been treated by others, based on skin tone. In any case, whether ideologically Black means nothing, or social groups in your view are socially constructed and therefore, not real, the fact remains that this perceptual illusion has lead to differential treatment, marginalisation and discrimination. Whether it is socially constructed or not seems irrelevant, because what has been created in - on a general level - a pattern or experience, a cultural experience. It's a very real topic, so why get hung up on what we call it? :shrug:

pov
Jun 19th, 2008, 12:52 AM
I still don't see the contribution to the discussion by getting stuck on the language used. It seems pretty clear that people are talking about patterns in experience by social groups, particularly here the experiences of 'black people' or dark skinned people of African descent. Moreover the focus has been on how this group has been treated by others, based on skin tone. In any case, whether ideologically Black means nothing, or social groups in your view are socially constructed and therefore, not real, the fact remains that this perceptual illusion has lead to differential treatment, marginalisation and discrimination. Whether it is socially constructed or not seems irrelevant, because what has been created in - on a general level - a pattern or experience, a cultural experience. It's a very real topic, so why get hung up on what we call it? :shrug:

Hmm . . I addressed my response to Denise. Anyway:

Stuck on language used? wtf?? When?

The point is the concepts on which the premise is based. The idea that there is some common pattern or experience based on "Black" or "White" is another fiction. It often shows up as another facet of racism. Unintentional of course, but based on the ideas propagated by racists. That is why the "how it was constructed" is relevant. What you call experience is sometimes just as much about the interpretations people bring to events as much as the events themselves.

d_crawford3
Jun 19th, 2008, 01:02 AM
Well I think pov has a point.
White people were slaves in Africa long before Black people became slaves to moslems.
Facts are the worst thing to be in the USA is a Black man, even worse than being a woman or black woman.
Same thing as a pecking order. Asian Elephants were on this planet before African elephants appeared, but all elephants are now of equal status, whether wild or domesticated, whether they can write their name or not, elephants still rank below humans.


:timebomb:OMG!!! are u serious? white people were slaves in africa before blacks.. ok first of all if u read the bible u would kno that people in general came from africa and of the people the first one's were black. "adam and eve" also if u knew anything white people were sent from america to africa to bring back slaves all who were black. how could u even think that, if u want to go back even father kings and queens of egypt were black then moses came, set the slaves free who were black and that's how the world came to be.and while all this was going on whites in general were in america or europe trying to work a sail boat. i think u should go back to history class i can see u were not a very bright student:lol:...

Marshmallow
Jun 19th, 2008, 01:26 AM
Hmm . . I addressed my response to Denise. Anyway:

Stuck on language used? wtf?? When?

The point is the concepts on which the premise is based. The idea that there is some common pattern or experience based on "Black" or "White" is another fiction. It often shows up as another facet of racism. Unintentional of course, but based on the ideas propagated by racists. That is why the "how it was constructed" is relevant. What you call experience is sometimes just as much about the interpretations people bring to events as much as the events themselves.

I'm still puzzled as to why you keep referring to some things as fiction. For example, Back in the day if a restruant was labelled as WHITES ONLY IN / NO BLACKS ALOUD, this is a clear and real example of a common experience based on skin colour. It is an example of the very real experiences of discrmination based on skin colour.

So when people decide to discuss the disproportionately high numbers of black males in prison, the 1:5 ratio in unemployment between 'white' and 'black', institutional racism, the high exclusion rates, high drop out rates affecting black boys in particular, or even the 'white is good debate' / Implicit association test (or racial prejudice) - how would someone fit this into the whole fiction idea. Do we just view these as highly frequent coincidences?

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jun 19th, 2008, 01:28 AM
very very good ...

pov
Jun 19th, 2008, 01:52 AM
I'm still puzzled as to why you keep referring to some things as fiction. For example, Back in the day


I'm not interested in notions of "back in the day." How many people posting here have had the experience of encountering such a sign? The rest of the litany you posted fits perfectly within the fallout from the fictions I mentioned.

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 19th, 2008, 07:52 AM
I'm not interested in notions of "back in the day." How many people posting here have had the experience of encountering such a sign?

I've never experienced the sign.


I've experienced the more personal touch- multiple times, ie, have been told TO MY FACE "No Blacks Allowed."

Once, when trying to book a facility for a party for my fraternity, and once when I was dancing with a co-worker (she happened to be white) at a bar in Arkansas, only to name a couple incidents. There have been others, but my point and, perhaps more importantly, Marsh's point is made.


btw, MM and D', et, al, I truly appreciate the perspectives in here and the GENERAL civility of the conversation. :yeah:

homogenius
Jun 19th, 2008, 07:55 AM
I've been wondering about that myself. The fact of the matter is, gay white people have a way to escape from the nonsense (don't ask, don't tell). Fair-skinned Jews have several ways to escape from the nonsense (change to a European surname, change their religion). Most black people don't have those options, so we're subject to the nonsense 24/7.

Despite some kind of evolution, being gay is not considered as a "natural thing" and gays aren't treated equally.In most western countries, they haven't the same rights that the others (they have less rights than Blacks for that matter) and wordwilde, there'is still a lot of countries where being gay end by the death of the people who don't hide their sexuality.
Of course you can always try to hide something like your sexuality, but is that a normal life to live ?
Just take tennis : we have one or two lesbians who are courageous enough to be honest like Mauresmo and the others (and we know they are quite a lot on the women tour).It's even worse with the men's tour : not a single player feel free enough to say he's gay.
You can see that in a lot of areas still (professionnal, familial etc...).
I don't see how it's better to being able to "eskape from the non-sense" (and you never really totally eskape anyway) by hiding who you are.