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liuxuan
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:53 AM
Since one smidgeon of a rumour that Kim may return seems to have descended into endless arguments about whether Kim or Maria is better (how predictable!), who do we actually rate to be the better player??

Sure, Maria has won 3 grandslams while Kim only has one. Kim however, has won many more titles, and has had long periods of absense through injury when she would have been a major favuorite for grandslam titles. Maria has been acknoeldged for her tough play under pressure, while Kim has been criticised for underperforming under pressure. However, Kim has displayed periods of utter brilliance and dominance, such as her hardcourt performance in 2005, where she displayed a level of tennis that no-one could dispute wasnt way better than anyone else at the time. Maria has never shown that kind of form over any period of time, but instead has been a consistent top 5 contender without ever putting a real class between herself and the rest of the field the way Kim did at certain periods. Kim also had 2 different years where she won 9 titles each, Maria has never won more than 5 titles in a year.

Kim leads their head to head 4-3

anyways, the question is - who is the better player when both are playing at their very best?? For me, its Kim every time!! Kim's game reached a standard of play only matched in this generation by Venus, Serena and Justine. Maria, Mauresmo and any other grandslam champions on this decade have not played at the same level these four women have displayed at various points in this decade, and while Maria has won more grandslams, in my mind and in any hardcore tennis fans mind, I think they would have to admit that Kim in top form would humble Maria on top form on any surface other than grass - on US Hardcourts and on Clay Maria wouldnt have a chance against Kim playing in top form!

faboozadoo15
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:58 AM
Is this a joke?

goldlion
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:59 AM
This is a ridiculous poll for a meaningless result.

cocco80
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:00 AM
:haha:


poor maria and her fans.

Emina.
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:01 AM
Kim.

spiritedenergy
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:02 AM
Kim. She could do everything better than Maria.

Slutati
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:03 AM
Kim, of course:)

Il Primo!
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Oh God. And I read that Maria is overrated? This thread is so pointless. Go compare Kim with the likes of Pierce and Mauresmo, Maria's in the superior league. :wavey:

Dave.
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:10 AM
The answer is in the original post. Kim won 9 titles in an individual year twice. The most Sharapova has won in a year is 5. When Kim played well, she won more. Plus her game is alot more complete than Sharapova's. She has great defense and decent offense from the baseline, plus a great net game to back all that up. Kim only struggled mentally in bigger matches against the mentally stronger players (Henin, Serena, Venus) but Maria does not fall into their category, hence the 4-3 H2H.

faboozadoo15
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:16 AM
The answer is in the original post. Kim won 9 titles in an individual year twice. The most Sharapova has won in a year is 5. When Kim played well, she won more. Plus her game is alot more complete than Sharapova's. She has great defense and decent offense from the baseline, plus a great net game to back all that up. Kim only struggled mentally in bigger matches against the mentally stronger players (Henin, Serena, Venus) but Maria does not fall into their category, hence the 4-3 H2H.

:weirdo: Sharapova is 4 years younger than Kim and currently boasts a 30-3 record with 3 titles, heading into her best part of the season. Let's wait and see.

And Kim built up that head2head against Maria with her best tennis, and Maria won their last three matches in straight sets, all on Kim's favorite surface.

How about you look at Kim's head2head against Ana, for instance. :haha:

Il Primo!
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:19 AM
The answer is in the original post. Kim won 9 titles in an individual year twice. The most Sharapova has won in a year is 5. When Kim played well, she won more. Plus her game is alot more complete than Sharapova's. She has great defense and decent offense from the baseline, plus a great net game to back all that up. Kim only struggled mentally in bigger matches against the mentally stronger players (Henin, Serena, Venus) but Maria does not fall into their category, hence the 4-3 H2H.

Kim is the best example of "quantity over quality". Maria has thrice more slams and more tiers1 under her belt.

Thanx4nothin
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:20 AM
Kim by a smidgeon, but masha maintains a high level more frquently, and if a mental strength category was given equal weight as forehands and backhands, it would be maria hands down.

hingisGOAT
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:21 AM
Actually, I think Clijsters' brought the highest level of tennis to the court of any player I've ever seen. She was easily the most athletic, fast, versatile champion of the last decade and could crush the ball at will... If her game was pulled together like it was in '05 nobody else could compete, Maria too.

And their h2h is meaningless. Look at their match in Australia 2007, have you ever seen Clijsters play such a dreadful match? I don't think so...

danieln1
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:22 AM
Is this a joke?

Yes it is, and an awful joke!
First of all, Kim was a real choker and afraid of facing Henin during those slam finals, then she stated herself as a quitter because she couldn´t handle her injuries and quit the sport because of that... And her game, she could attack, but the retrieving was the most of it
To compare her to Maria, a real fighter who NEVER gives up, it´s not afraid to face anyone, she also had her share of injuries, but she did manage to cope with them and return fiercely to competition, diferent from clijsters. Also Maria is way more effective than Kim ever was when Maria is on
So, Maria is the better player, without a doubt

Dave.
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:39 AM
:weirdo: Sharapova is 4 years younger than Kim and currently boasts a 30-3 record with 3 titles, heading into her best part of the season. Let's wait and see.

And Kim built up that head2head against Maria with her best tennis, and Maria won their last three matches in straight sets, all on Kim's favorite surface.

How about you look at Kim's head2head against Ana, for instance. :haha:

You're right Sharapova is 4 yrs younger so she really should not be compared with greats like Kim until she's had her full career.

The H2H shows that Kim was comfortable against Sharapova. Kim was just coming back when she beat Sharapova (the current Wimbledon champion) in the Miami final, so she was not expected to win that. By the end of 06-start of 07 Kim was playing far from her best.

Ana has nothing to do with this.

Andrew Laeddis
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:50 AM
Actually, I think Clijsters' brought the highest level of tennis to the court of any player I've ever seen. She was easily the most athletic, fast, versatile champion of the last decade and could crush the ball at will... If her game was pulled together like it was in '05 nobody else could compete, Maria too.

And their h2h is meaningless. Look at their match in Australia 2007, have you ever seen Clijsters play such a dreadful match? I don't think so...

Yes I have the previous match against Hingis which was pure crap. Clijsters didnt play that well against Maria Maria used the right strategy. She came forward to end points instead of allowing Kim to get back into points with her speed and defense. And by the way Shara's was less than stunning in her 05 USO match against Clijters.

faboozadoo15
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:55 AM
You're right Sharapova is 4 yrs younger so she really should not be compared with greats like Kim until she's had her full career.

The H2H shows that Kim was comfortable against Sharapova. Kim was just coming back when she beat Sharapova (the current Wimbledon champion) in the Miami final, so she was not expected to win that. By the end of 06-start of 07 Kim was playing far from her best.

Ana has nothing to do with this.

Wow, you're such a clown.

Kim had just won Indian Wells, and had beaten 5 top 5 players within the previous 2 weeks. Kim was the favorite against Maria.

Maria's career is already better than Kim's.

Kim may have been "comfortable" against Maria, but the record also shows that Maria figured Kim out, and Maria was able to dispatch Kim in straight sets three times in a row on Kim's best surface. How do you explain that?

ASP0315
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:05 AM
Kim offcourse
too bad she should have won atleast 4 to 5 slams imo.
one of them is at french where she lost a heartbreaking match to capriati.
Sandra DeJenkin Screwed her chances at Australian open 2004.
I was happy that she finally managed to get one at USO.
She was a terrific player. her griding game is very good.
i really enjoyed her match against sharapova at USO 2005.

skanky~skanketta
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:40 AM
Wow, you're such a clown.

Kim had just won Indian Wells, and had beaten 5 top 5 players within the previous 2 weeks. Kim was the favorite against Maria.

Maria's career is already better than Kim's.

Kim may have been "comfortable" against Maria, but the record also shows that Maria figured Kim out, and Maria was able to dispatch Kim in straight sets three times in a row on Kim's best surface. How do you explain that?
Kim had already won her slam. I think it was pretty obvious by the way she played that she didn't give a shit anymore.

The question was: who was better at their best. Kim, without a doubt.

GrafMariaPetraK
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:45 AM
:help::shrug:

Il Primo!
Jun 11th, 2008, 03:09 AM
This thread really is a mess. I can't believe what I'm reading:help:

AlmostCrimes
Jun 11th, 2008, 03:28 AM
I may like Kim more, but in terms of results, I would have to say that Maria proved to be the better player, at least towards the end of Kim's career.

morningglory
Jun 11th, 2008, 03:57 AM
3>1
Enough said.

Geisha
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:29 AM
Wow, you're such a clown.

Kim had just won Indian Wells, and had beaten 5 top 5 players within the previous 2 weeks. Kim was the favorite against Maria.

Maria's career is already better than Kim's.

Kim may have been "comfortable" against Maria, but the record also shows that Maria figured Kim out, and Maria was able to dispatch Kim in straight sets three times in a row on Kim's best surface. How do you explain that?

I agree. In my opinion, Clijsters would have the better career if she had won one more Grand Slam or Sharapova won one less.

Clijsters pretty much leads in every category other than the Majors. I give points to both for their consistency - Sharapova reached the QFs or better in 11 of 13 Grand Slams, and Clijsters reached the SFs or better five straight Grand Slams twice in her career. I give extra points to Clijsters for playing competitively during the peak of the Williams Sisters and Henin (2002-2004), and for the Indian Wells and Miami double. Points go to Sharapova for her longevity - she's won three Grand Slams in a four-year period, which is mighty impressive. I place great emphasis on "dominating" periods; Clijsters was extremely successful at the end of 2002 going into her 2004 injury, and also in 2005. Sharapova has simply played at a "high level" for three/four straight years, which is impressive, but not as much as Clijsters.

Both of these ladies have been impacted by injuries, so I'm not really included that as one of my factors. I think Clijsters has more weeks at #1 than Sharapova, but I'm not sure. So, yes...Clijsters may have terrific results, but you can't look away from two more Major titles.

Geisha
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:31 AM
Wow, you're such a clown.

Kim had just won Indian Wells, and had beaten 5 top 5 players within the previous 2 weeks. Kim was the favorite against Maria.

Maria's career is already better than Kim's.

Kim may have been "comfortable" against Maria, but the record also shows that Maria figured Kim out, and Maria was able to dispatch Kim in straight sets three times in a row on Kim's best surface. How do you explain that?

I agree. In my opinion, Clijsters would have the better career if she had won one more Grand Slam or Sharapova won one less.

Clijsters pretty much leads in every category other than the Majors. I give points to both for their consistency - Sharapova reached the QFs or better in 11 of 13 Grand Slams, and Clijsters reached the SFs or better five straight Grand Slams twice in her career. I give extra points to Clijsters for playing competitively during the peak of the Williams Sisters and Henin (2002-2004), and for the Indian Wells and Miami double. Points go to Sharapova for her longevity - she's won three Grand Slams in a four-year period, which is mighty impressive. I place great emphasis on "dominating" periods; Clijsters was extremely successful at the end of 2002 going into her 2004 injury, and also in 2005. Sharapova has simply played at a "high level" for three/four straight years, which is impressive, but not as much as Clijsters.

Both of these ladies have been impacted by injuries, so I'm not really included that as one of my factors. I think Clijsters has more weeks at #1 than Sharapova, but I'm not sure. So, yes...Clijsters may have terrific results, but you can't look away from two more Major titles.

You know...I just re-read the title. At their "best", Kim is better. She had better "peak" results than Maria.

mashamaniac
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:31 AM
Undoubtedly maria has had the better peak of the two! just take a look at their results and you'll find it out! unfortunately again ivanovic fans have voted against maria(in a poll that doesn't have anything to do with their fave player!!) and that's why the result is so close,otherwise it would have been with a very big gap...

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:34 AM
Kim vs Maria - whose the better player at their best?

This question is a joke right?

Maria without question.

AcesHigh
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Kim.... EASSSSSSYYY.

Kim does almost EVERYTHING better than Maria. She only has better results because she is mentally tougher and had easier competition. Kim is the biggest underachiever of this generation and at her best could hang with the WS and Henin at their best, something I doubt Maria could do, no offense.

This question isn't who had the better career(that is Maria easily), it's who is the better player at their best, which is easily Kim.

Sharapowerr
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:55 AM
What is this? Maria played better the last years she won the last 3 meetings i think they re both ok.. but Maria is IMO a better player then Kim

Serenidad.
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:35 AM
Clijsters is the more complete player at their respective best. Defense, Movement, Slice Backhand, Dropshot, Volley.

Sharapova may have the more stinging groundstrokes at her peak, but Clijsters' could still penetrate.

hingisGOAT
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:36 AM
Yes I have the previous match against Hingis which was pure crap. Clijsters didnt play that well against Maria Maria used the right strategy. She came forward to end points instead of allowing Kim to get back into points with her speed and defense. And by the way Shara's was less than stunning in her 05 USO match against Clijters.

Oh please. Sharapova's game was terrible in that match, she "allowed" Kim to do whatever the hell she wanted...

...I can't believe people are even discussing this. Kim was three times the athlete that Sharapova could ever hope to be. If they are "at their best" then it's Kim in two easy sets.

Hagar
Jun 11th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Kim had a more complete game. Maria's game is pretty onedimensional. There is a lot of work on it. This said, she is amazingly strong in the mental department and makes great use of the weapons she has. But there is a lot of room for improvement.

SOA_MC
Jun 11th, 2008, 08:58 AM
Undoubtedly maria has had the better peak of the two! just take a look at their results and you'll find it out! unfortunately again ivanovic fans have voted against maria(in a poll that doesn't have anything to do with their fave player!!) and that's why the result is so close,otherwise it would have been with a very big gap...

Yes we're all out to get Maria:rolleyes:

Beat
Jun 11th, 2008, 09:00 AM
Kim won 9 titles in an individual year twice. The most Sharapova has won in a year is 5.

sorry, i liked kim way better than maria, but all that counts are grand slams, and 3 (+ ...) > 1. kim was an underachiever as far as GS titles go, and we all know that.

Mashafaaaaan
Jun 11th, 2008, 09:05 AM
:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Nikkiri
Jun 11th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Undoubtedly maria has had the better peak of the two! just take a look at their results and you'll find it out! unfortunately again ivanovic fans have voted against maria(in a poll that doesn't have anything to do with their fave player!!) and that's why the result is so close,otherwise it would have been with a very big gap...

:rolleyes: Oh please. Stop with this bs Ana/Maria crap. Not everyone is as petty as you are.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 11th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Maria fans => "Maria!"

Maria haters => "Definately not Maria! Anyone else will do!"

Everyone else => "Is this a joke?"

Miss Amor
Jun 11th, 2008, 09:27 AM
even though i dont like both of them ..maria >kim...if you dont know why, your tennis knowledge is faulty...kkthnxbyebye

Sharapowerr
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:01 AM
You're right Sharapova is 4 yrs younger so she really should not be compared with greats like Kim until she's had her full career.

The H2H shows that Kim was comfortable against Sharapova. Kim was just coming back when she beat Sharapova (the current Wimbledon champion) in the Miami final, so she was not expected to win that. By the end of 06-start of 07 Kim was playing far from her best.

Ana has nothing to do with this.`

The last 3 meetings Sharapova won Kim won 2 of their meetings in 2003 Maria was just 16!

Clijsters leads 4-3
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
2 / 1 2003 LOS ANGELES HARD (O) R16 K. CLIJSTERS 6-4 1-6 6-1 56 / --
2 / 1 2003 LUXEMBOURG HARD (I) S K. CLIJSTERS 6-0 6-3 37 / 5
38 / -- 2005 MIAMI HARD (O) F K. CLIJSTERS 6-3 7-5 3 / 2
4 / 4 2005 US OPEN HARD (O) S K. CLIJSTERS 6-2 6-7(4) 6-3 2 / 1
2 / 1 2006 SAN DIEGO HARD (O) F M. SHARAPOVA 7-5 7-5 4 / 2
6 / -- 2006 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS HARD (I) Q M. SHARAPOVA 6-4 6-4 2 / --
5 / 4 2007 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) S M. SHARAPOVA 6-4 6-2 2 / 1

Maria had 3 GS by the age 20!
Kim retired when she was 24 and does have 1 GS

At Wimbledon 2004 Maria won from 2 top 10 players on route ( Davenport/S Williams)
t the us open 2006 Maria won from the number 2 and 1 (Meuresmo and Henin)
At the AO 2008 she won from the entire top 3 Henin/Jankovic /Ivanovic

But Kim was a great player.. i respect her a lot Kim and Maria where respecting each other if you look how Ana did won RG 2008 She beat only one top 10 player on route Jankovic SF !! SCHOCK

2007 ANTWERP CARPET (I) Q K. CLIJSTERS def A.IVANOVIC 6-2 6-1 and then start threads comparing Ana with Maria:rolleyes:

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:12 AM
Kim was the better player. Maria is greater.

Uranus
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:18 AM
Kim.... EASSSSSSYYY.

Kim does almost EVERYTHING better than Maria. She only has better results because she is mentally tougher and had easier competition. Kim is the biggest underachiever of this generation and at her best could hang with the WS and Henin at their best, something I doubt Maria could do, no offense.

This question isn't who had the better career(that is Maria easily), it's who is the better player at their best, which is easily Kim.
Agreed.

Kim had more skills but Maria is the one who will be remembered the most.

Sharapowerr
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:20 AM
If Maria wins 3 more GS in a few years people here are still gonna say overrated or weak competition....

Shimizu Amon
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Without any doubt in my mind I'm positive that Maria would beat the living crap out of Kim when both would play at their best tennis. Kim couldn't handle the immense power of Maria. I've seen it during the match at the USO which Maria lost eventually. Maria played for a couple of games at her top and Kim could't come close to the level of Maria. So I'm really positive that if Maria could've hold that level an entire match she would've beaten Kim easily.

Dave.
Jun 11th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Kim.... EASSSSSSYYY.

Kim does almost EVERYTHING better than Maria. She only has better results because she is mentally tougher and had easier competition. Kim is the biggest underachiever of this generation and at her best could hang with the WS and Henin at their best, something I doubt Maria could do, no offense.

This question isn't who had the better career(that is Maria easily), it's who is the better player at their best, which is easily Kim.

Exactly :worship:

sorry, i liked kim way better than maria, but all that counts are grand slams, and 3 (+ ...) > 1. kim was an underachiever as far as GS titles go, and we all know that.

Grand Slams are the most important tournaments but no they are not al that counts. If that was the case there wouldn't be a tour.

`

The last 3 meetings Sharapova won Kim won 2 of their meetings in 2003 Maria was just 16!

Clijsters leads 4-3
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
2 / 1 2003 LOS ANGELES HARD (O) R16 K. CLIJSTERS 6-4 1-6 6-1 56 / --
2 / 1 2003 LUXEMBOURG HARD (I) S K. CLIJSTERS 6-0 6-3 37 / 5
38 / -- 2005 MIAMI HARD (O) F K. CLIJSTERS 6-3 7-5 3 / 2
4 / 4 2005 US OPEN HARD (O) S K. CLIJSTERS 6-2 6-7(4) 6-3 2 / 1
2 / 1 2006 SAN DIEGO HARD (O) F M. SHARAPOVA 7-5 7-5 4 / 2
6 / -- 2006 TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS HARD (I) Q M. SHARAPOVA 6-4 6-4 2 / --
5 / 4 2007 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) S M. SHARAPOVA 6-4 6-2 2 / 1

Maria had 3 GS by the age 20!
Kim retired when she was 24 and does have 1 GS

At Wimbledon 2004 Maria won from 2 top 10 players on route ( Davenport/S Williams)
t the us open 2006 Maria won from the number 2 and 1 (Meuresmo and Henin)
At the AO 2008 she won from the entire top 3 Henin/Jankovic /Ivanovic

But Kim was a great player.. i respect her a lot Kim and Maria where respecting each other if you look how Ana did won RG 2008 She beat only one top 10 player on route Jankovic SF !! SCHOCK

2007 ANTWERP CARPET (I) Q K. CLIJSTERS def A.IVANOVIC 6-2 6-1 and then start threads comparing Ana with Maria:rolleyes:



Firstly, Ana has nothing to do with this thread. If I didn't have her in my sig you wouldn't have brought her into this thread so grow up.


I'm not taking anything away from Sharapova's GS titles- all 3 of them were done in spectacular style beating good players. But Kim played in a tougher time. The thread title says who was better at their best. There's no doubt that Sharapova has achieved more (in singles only though), but Kim was a better player.

tennisbear7
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Kim was the better player.

She was able to, at times, outplay both Serena and Venus, two of the most powerful players ever to lift racquets. She would match them in terms of their athleticism, their power, but not their minds.

Maria has, by far in a way, the better career. But Kim was just a pool of unfulfilled talent. She just didn't give a stuffing after taht USO win. Maria's mentality alone makes her a better player CONSISTENTLY, but not te better player than Kim when both are at their best.

lundi2510
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Maria's a good player but at her best I think Kim would win! But it would be close

liuxuan
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:38 AM
i knew this thread wouuld turn out the way it has as everyone who is getting their knickers in a twist has failed to read the question - guys im well aware, as much as anyone else is, that Maria will go down as greater, 3 slams>1 slam, and thats the deciding factor - however, that wasnt the question as that fact goes without question.

The issue was who is the better player at their best and I think that from the end of 2002-beginning of 2004 and then in 2005, the level of tennis Kim was playing at was higher than anything Maria has consistently managed to achieved outside a few individual tournaments, hence Kim superior 2003 and 2005 individual seasons to any individual season Maria has had.

Kim was able to go toe to toe with Venus and Serena playing at their best, and beat them at times, while at other times they were mentally stronger! whenever Maria has beaten them they have been injured or playing like shit, and when she has lost to them they have totally humiliated her!! That never happened to Kim after she hit top form in 2002.

Maria strikes a bit the ball more viciously than Kim did - but Kim was 10 times the athlete Maria body could ever allow her to be and would beat her in straights sets on any surface other than grass if they both met in peak form!

Uranus
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Maria fans can laugh as much as they want but what I'm reading about Kim is very true and smart. The only thing we'll never know about is who will win if they face each other when playing their best tennis.

I miss the Belgians vs. Williams rivalry and I don't think we'll get to see such a rivalry in the coming years and esp. when it comes to the level of play developed.

Mashafaaaaan
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:34 PM
Kim was able to go toe to toe with Venus and Serena playing at their best, and beat them at times, while at other times they were mentally stronger! whenever Maria has beaten them they have been injured or playing like shit, and when she has lost to them they have totally humiliated her!! That never happened to Kim after she hit top form in 2002.

Maria strikes a bit the ball more viciously than Kim did - but Kim was 10 times the athlete Maria body could ever allow her to be and would beat her in straights sets on any surface other than grass if they both met in peak form!

Oh please, Maria too played like a shit when she lost against WS:rolleyes:
Beside Maria was able to beat Henin when she played her best level 2006 and 2007, what about WS, Henin beat Serena three times in a row and Venus during US open. I'm not even talking about Clijsters who was totally freak out when she played Justine.

Adal
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Peak *** vs Peak *** threads are back :bigcry:

Uranus
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:19 PM
Beside Maria was able to beat Henin when she played her best level 2006 and 2007
Ah and when did Maria beat an in-form Justine?
- Miami 2005, first tournament for Justine after a 6+ month break?
- US Open 2006, with such poor play from Justine in the final?
- Australian Open 2008, the beginning of the end for Justine?
Those are the 3 only wins Maria got over her.
The only match when both players were playing really well was the YEC 2007 final. And Maria lost it.
I'm no hater at all but I'm just refreshing your mind.

Dawson.
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:21 PM
you just need to look at the head to heads...

cocco80
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:26 PM
Undoubtedly maria has had the better peak of the two! just take a look at their results and you'll find it out! unfortunately again ivanovic fans have voted against maria(in a poll that doesn't have anything to do with their fave player!!) and that's why the result is so close,otherwise it would have been with a very big gap...

excuse me but that's not true.

tequila
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:29 PM
3 slams > 1 slam. Sharpie plays her best when it counts.

btw Ana > Kim ;) Didn't take Ana till 22 to win one. ;)

Brengle_Nation
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Their semi final meeting at the US Open in 2005 settled this debate.

Dan23
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Their semi final meeting at the US Open in 2005 settled this debate.
:lol: explain how?

Russianboy
Jun 11th, 2008, 04:01 PM
:weirdo: Sharapova is 4 years younger than Kim and currently boasts a 30-3 record with 3 titles, heading into her best part of the season. Let's wait and see.

And Kim built up that head2head against Maria with her best tennis, and Maria won their last three matches in straight sets, all on Kim's favorite surface.

How about you look at Kim's head2head against Ana, for instance. :haha:

NOW this is hilarious :lol: :yeah:

Russianboy
Jun 11th, 2008, 04:04 PM
Ah and when did Maria beat an in-form Justine?
- Miami 2005, first tournament for Justine after a 6+ month break?
- US Open 2006, with such poor play from Justine in the final?
- Australian Open 2008, the beginning of the end for Justine?
Those are the 3 only wins Maria got over her.
The only match when both players were playing really well was the YEC 2007 final. And Maria lost it.
I'm no hater at all but I'm just refreshing your mind.

girl, with ur logic it would have been:

in 2007 YEC maria hasn't played for months so she wasn't playing her best. ;)

Il Primo!
Jun 11th, 2008, 04:06 PM
Kim.... EASSSSSSYYY.

Kim does almost EVERYTHING better than Maria. She only has better results because she is mentally tougher and had easier competition. Kim is the biggest underachiever of this generation and at her best could hang with the WS and Henin at their best, something I doubt Maria could do, no offense.

This question isn't who had the better career(that is Maria easily), it's who is the better player at their best, which is easily Kim.

Maria has the best BH, FH and serve. Maria's elementary shots are better. We don't see the same game.

Adal
Jun 11th, 2008, 04:08 PM
girl, with ur logic it would have been:

in 2007 YEC maria hasn't played for months so she wasn't playing her best. ;)
Yeah.
2005 RG and Berlin - Maria playing on her worst surface.
2006 YEC - Maria tired after playing many matches and winning many tournaments
2006 AO - Maria with the shoulder injury. She wasn't even supposed to be playing the tournament.
2006 Dubai - Maria tired after playing and beating two former world #1s in ONE day

:worship::worship::worship:

Russianboy
Jun 11th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Yeah.
2005 RG and Berlin - Maria playing on her worst surface.
2006 YEC - Maria tired after playing many matches and winning many tournaments
2006 AO - Maria with the shoulder injury. She wasn't even supposed to be playing the tournament.
2006 Dubai - Maria tired after playing and beating two former world #1s in ONE day

:worship::worship::worship:

:worship:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Kim.... EASSSSSSYYY.

Kim does almost EVERYTHING better than Maria. She only has better results because she is mentally tougher and had easier competition. Kim is the biggest underachiever of this generation and at her best could hang with the WS and Henin at their best, something I doubt Maria could do, no offense.

This question isn't who had the better career(that is Maria easily), it's who is the better player at their best, which is easily Kim.

people see a 'vs' in the thread title and don't read anything else...Kim wins this hands down...Kim has less GS wins but check who her opposition was...WS at their dominant best then JH when she was coming to the front...and even then she was able to hang with them (even a win vs 2002 peak serena)...if you put masha against any of those 3 in that period she would be crushed handily...just look at her h-2-h OUTSIDE of their peak years...

-serena outside of her peak years leads masha 5-2 with some very crushing victories

-venus outside of her peak years has a 2-3 deficit but, when she plays near her best has crushed masha while the opposite has never occurred..

-henin leads the head to head 6-3....that wasn't about to change....

mboyle
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:14 PM
. She has great defense and decent offense from the baseline, plus a great net game to back all that up. Kim only struggled mentally in bigger matches against the mentally stronger players (Henin, Serena, Venus) but Maria does not fall into their category, hence the 4-3 H2H.

She won the last 3. She dominated the last two. Offense beats defense in tennis. Maria has won 3 grand slams. Kim won 1. Maria beat the two best players of her generation to win her slams. Kim never beat either of them in a major after 03.

Kim won 9 titles in a season because she played more than Maria ever did or will.

IceHock
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Seeing as it's not really about titles but rather who's better, I think Maria is far more competitve than Kim however, Kim takes everything else, she was an amazing athlete, and she really had everything in her game, she was better than average at every aspect of tennis.

The Daviator
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:24 PM
:weirdo: Sharapova is 4 years younger than Kim and currently boasts a 30-3 record with 3 titles, heading into her best part of the season. Let's wait and see.

And Kim built up that head2head against Maria with her best tennis, and Maria won their last three matches in straight sets, all on Kim's favorite surface.

How about you look at Kim's head2head against Ana, for instance. :haha:

Yeah, and Kim whacked Pova 6-0 6-3 one time :haha: :haha: :weirdo:

Can't believe all the posts about Ana, she's running this joint :lol:

roelc
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:27 PM
well, the surface matters too

if peak-kim would play peak-maria on clay, kim should win it easily
if it'd be on grass, I'd probably say maria
on hardcourt, hard to tell, I think peak-kim in a very tight match

joăo.
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:52 PM
Yeah, and Kim whacked Pova 6-0 6-3 one time :haha: :haha: :weirdo:

Can't believe all the posts about Ana, she's running this joint :lol:

That was in 2003. :rolleyes:
Let's look at more recent results: Kim def. Ana 2007 Antwerp 62 61, for instance then. :wavey:

I don't know what Ana has to do with this too, though.

The Daviator
Jun 11th, 2008, 08:03 PM
That was in 2003. :rolleyes:
Let's look at more recent results: Kim def. Ana 2007 Antwerp 62 61, for instance then. :wavey:

I don't know what Ana has to do with this too, though.

My post was a response to someone bringing that result up :wavey: Both of them were whipped by Kim, big deal, had Kim not left she'd have suffered some losses to Ana by now.

Uranus
Jun 11th, 2008, 09:22 PM
girl, with ur logic it would have been:

in 2007 YEC maria hasn't played for months so she wasn't playing her best. ;)
I'm a boy. ;)

Btw, since when 3-4 weeks equal to months? :lol:

Yeah.
2005 RG and Berlin - Maria playing on her worst surface.
2006 YEC - Maria tired after playing many matches and winning many tournaments
2006 AO - Maria with the shoulder injury. She wasn't even supposed to be playing the tournament.
2006 Dubai - Maria tired after playing and beating two former world #1s in ONE day

:worship::worship::worship:
Did you actually see the matches I put in bold?

They were all pretty good, Maria had a very nice level but Justine was just better.

franny
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:11 PM
The thing is, if we're talking about "at their bests who would win," my vote would always go for the more aggressive and powerful player. That player is Maria Sharapova. If they are at their best, Maria would just blast groundstrokes from the baseline and if Kim can chase down 10-20 of them, Sharapova "at her best" would theoretically just keep making them since it's her "best." Assuming that at their best neither missed a shot, then Sharapova would still win since her shots would penetrate more and she would be on the offensive more.

It's like saying who is better at their peak, Mary Pierce or Kim Clijsters? Kim's acheived arguably more, but I'd still bet on Mary winning the match.

AcesHigh
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:30 PM
The thing is, if we're talking about "at their bests who would win," my vote would always go for the more aggressive and powerful player. That player is Maria Sharapova. If they are at their best, Maria would just blast groundstrokes from the baseline and if Kim can chase down 10-20 of them, Sharapova "at her best" would theoretically just keep making them since it's her "best." Assuming that at their best neither missed a shot, then Sharapova would still win since her shots would penetrate more and she would be on the offensive more.

It's like saying who is better at their peak, Mary Pierce or Kim Clijsters? Kim's acheived arguably more, but I'd still bet on Mary winning the match.

Does that logic make any sense? Roddick is more aggressive and arguably more powerful than Fed or Nadal or Djokovic, but he's not going to beat them at his best.

Even at her best, Sharapova is not making all those shots. "Best" does not mean invincible. Especially if she's being pushed around the court.
Kim IS NOT a retriever. She only played like one at her worst moments. So at her best, Kim can be just as accurate and aggressive as Sharapova could be. The difference is Sharapova does not have a great return game, she is not fast, she does not have amazing footwork, she can't volley, and she doesn't really have a plan B.

GrafMariaPetraK
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:59 PM
Does that logic make any sense? Roddick is more aggressive and arguably more powerful than Fed or Nadal or Djokovic, but he's not going to beat them at his best.

Even at her best, Sharapova is not making all those shots. "Best" does not mean invincible. Especially if she's being pushed around the court.
Kim IS NOT a retriever. She only played like one at her worst moments. So at her best, Kim can be just as accurate and aggressive as Sharapova could be. The difference is Sharapova does not have a great return game, she is not fast, she does not have amazing footwork, she can't volley, and she doesn't really have a plan B.You seem to think everybody's better than Maria:rolleyes: both at there best i'd say Maria even though i love Kim.

Il Primo!
Jun 12th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Does that logic make any sense? Roddick is more aggressive and arguably more powerful than Fed or Nadal or Djokovic, but he's not going to beat them at his best.

Even at her best, Sharapova is not making all those shots. "Best" does not mean invincible. Especially if she's being pushed around the court.
Kim IS NOT a retriever. She only played like one at her worst moments. So at her best, Kim can be just as accurate and aggressive as Sharapova could be. The difference is Sharapova does not have a great return game, she is not fast, she does not have amazing footwork, she can't volley, and she doesn't really have a plan B.

Kim is not agressive for the hell of it. She never goes to the net, unlike Maria. Her shots are NOT that penetrating compared to Maria's.

Let your bias on the road, get your brain together dude.

slamchamp
Jun 12th, 2008, 12:30 AM
That was in 2003. :rolleyes:
Let's look at more recent results: Kim def. Ana 2007 Antwerp 62 61, for instance then. :wavey:

I don't know what Ana has to do with this too, though.:lol: owned

AcesHigh
Jun 12th, 2008, 12:46 AM
You seem to think everybody's better than Maria:rolleyes: both at there best i'd say Maria even though i love Kim.

Sharapova is the best player on tour(unless Ana and Serena show otherwise). HOWEVER, the question is asking at their best, and I'd pit Kim against the best of any generation and she's have a chance. She's just a tremendous athlete with a big shot selection.

Kim is not agressive for the hell of it. She never goes to the net, unlike Maria. Her shots are NOT that penetrating compared to Maria's.

Let your bias on the road, get your brain together dude.

the question was AT THEIR BEST.. and if you've seen Kim at her best, she can hang with the likes of Henin, Serena and Venus at their peaks. :rolleyes: She can smack winners from the baseline with the best of them.

Thanx4nothin
Jun 12th, 2008, 12:46 AM
Kim is not agressive for the hell of it. She never goes to the net, unlike Maria. Her shots are NOT that penetrating compared to Maria's.

Let your bias on the road, get your brain together dude.

Well to me Kim has a better game off the ground than Maria, and was equally agressive. Her net skills were leagues ahead of Pova's and as for the gap in the movement....

Uranus
Jun 12th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Serve: Maria
BH: Kim (even though Maria's one is amazing as well but Kim could do whatever she wanted with hers)
FH: Maria
Volley: Kim by a mile
Movement/Athleticism: Kim by a mile
Skills: Kim (she has all the shots)
Tactics: Kim (Maria just hits the ball the hardest possible, has no B-plan)
Mental: Maria by a mile

bwahahahahaha
Jun 12th, 2008, 01:41 PM
You're right Sharapova is 4 yrs younger so she really should not be compared with greats like Kim until she's had her full career.

The H2H shows that Kim was comfortable against Sharapova. Kim was just coming back when she beat Sharapova (the current Wimbledon champion) in the Miami final, so she was not expected to win that. By the end of 06-start of 07 Kim was playing far from her best.

Ana has nothing to do with this.

:spit:

Sharapova is already greater than Clijsters.

RenaSlam.
Jun 12th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Maria > Kim

The facts.

Adal
Jun 12th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Did you actually see the matches I put in bold?

They were all pretty good, Maria had a very nice level but Justine was just better.
I saw most of Maria's matches, and believe me, that wasn't a really nice level for her ;)

Emina.
Jun 12th, 2008, 01:55 PM
:haha::haha:

Kim of course ;) as I said Kim's greater than Maria and Ana put together :D Fact!

Come back Kim :rocker:

Oh and btw, I dont think these two girls will have greater careers than Kims sorry :D

Uranus
Jun 12th, 2008, 02:22 PM
I saw most of Maria's matches, and believe me, that wasn't a really nice level for her ;)
Then Maria plays maximum 1 tournament per year with a nice level of play. :tape:

Vaidisova Ruled
Jun 12th, 2008, 02:23 PM
:haha::haha:

Kim of course ;) as I said Kim's greater than Maria and Ana put together :D Fact!

Come back Kim :rocker:

Oh and btw, I dont think these two girls will have greater careers than Kims sorry :D
But Maria has 3 slams and 3>1.

Emina.
Jun 12th, 2008, 02:33 PM
But Maria has 3 slams and 3>1.

I know but so what? We know Kim is greater, facts dont matter here in the GM;)

KIM!!!!!!1111 :bounce:

I like them both though :)

Princeza
Jun 12th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Kim, of course:)

Lol i think i'm in love.

Olórin
Jun 12th, 2008, 02:39 PM
But Maria has 3 slams and 3>1.

The thread title is who is better at their best...so actually stats don't matter. Just how they played.

Slutati
Jun 12th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Lol i think i'm in love.
:rolls::rolls:
I know paperslut is so lovable:hearts::inlove:

AcesHigh
Jun 12th, 2008, 03:28 PM
The thread title is who is better at their best...so actually stats don't matter. Just how they played.

:yeah:

Princeza
Jun 12th, 2008, 03:35 PM
:rolls::rolls:
I know paperslut is so lovable:hearts::inlove:

Indeed, if only you liked Pova a bit, we would be married.

slamchamp
Jun 12th, 2008, 03:36 PM
lol who cares who's better at their best..Maria is a bigger champion that's all that matters :)

Il Primo!
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Serve: Maria
BH: Kim (even though Maria's one is amazing as well but Kim could do whatever she wanted with hers)
FH: Maria
Volley: Kim by a mile
Movement/Athleticism: Kim by a mile
Skills: Kim (she has all the shots)
Tactics: Kim (Maria just hits the ball the hardest possible, has no B-plan)
Mental: Maria by a mile

No you can't buddy! That is so so so wrong!

And maybe Kim has volley skills..but when does she actually goes to the net?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l1ujsa0RTQ

Dave.
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:29 PM
People here are making the mistake of thinking more aggression = better. Wrong.

Kim had enough talent to perfectly mix aggression and defense. Kim at her best > Maria at her best. End of.


:spit:

Sharapova is already greater than Clijsters.

Only in singles. Kim has achieved more in her tennis career (which is understandable as she has played longer).

mankitako
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:42 PM
Hi all I'm a new poster in this forum.

I find it very weird that the Maria fans get all defensive and post some really bias comment without seeing the fact. There are so many things that's just wrong.

First of all I think many people have a false impression of Maria as the harder hitter. If you guys check the stats of both Kim and Maria's match, their groundstroke speed are actually more or less the same. Even sometimes Kim hit a fast speed groundstroke than Maria. The different is that Maria hit a very flat groundstroke whereas Kim put a lot more spin in her strokes. So it looks like as if Maria hit harder. But in fact it is not the case. Compare to players like Serena, Venus or even Justin and Ana, Maria actually hit not as hard as them. No doubt she is one of the hard hitter, but to say like she is the hardest hitter on earth is a bit over the top. You can also see the result of hitting a flatter strokes, Maria often hit more errors compare to Kim. Cos Kim put more spin and leave more margin for error. The only player would can hit flat groundstrokes with so much consistency is Davenport. (or to some extend Elena too.)

And I think people said Maria is more offensive is also not correct cos they have a completely different style of game. Maria hit every stroke hard and keep giving a lot of pressure to the other, and Kim, she actually mix up her strokes more and when she sees the opportunity, she will quickly go for her shot. They both play aggressively but just they do that in a different way. Kim has a way better speed but that does not mean she is a retriever. If you see a lot of her match, you can see that she ALWAYS turn defense into offense in an eye blink. Her defensive skill is just her natural gift. And she takes advantage of it to mix with her offensive game style.

I think people shouldn't get too upset when someone is talking about Maria's weakness. Cos she indeed still have a lot of room to improve and you all should know, that she is always working hard to improve. In last year's YEC you can see that she improved so much, especially on her defense. That is remarkable and really shows Maria's will to be the best. But fact is that she still has many area to improve, and that is not a bad thing. (She is still so young for god sake...)

This thread is simply saying who would play better at their best. In my opinion, in this moment, at their very very best, I would put Kim over Maria, that's because skill wise Kim indeed is way more complete and she is natural gifted athlete. She has more margin for error and, at her best, her metal toughness is not weak as well. But I do think that this would change since Maria keeps improving every year. But for now, I would vote for Kim.

densuprun
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Peak point: Maria
Peak game: Maria
Peak set: Maria
Peak match: Kim
Peak tournament: Kim
Peak season: Kim
Peak year: Kim
Peak 5 years: Maria

Career: Maria