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View Full Version : If Justine were to comaback now.. would she be reinstated as world #1?


Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:52 AM
Obviously even the non-participation in RG due to her abrupt retirement she still has a lead over current #1 Ana by roughly 400 points.

If she comeback lets before Wimbledon, will she be reinstated as the #1 player in the world?
Does the rules allow that?
Would it be fair to Ana and the rest...?
what do yout think guys..................

Lucas_Arg
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:56 AM
No if she plays like she was playing before the retirement.

hankqq
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:57 AM
I don't think so. A lot of the WTA officials are so pissed at her. It didn't help that she skipped the ITF awards dinner last week to go to a Yannick Noah concert. :o

You can't just quit and then come back a month later. You can take a break and then come back a month later, but Henin said she was quitting.

I think they'd make her work her ranking back up again if she pulled that stunt.

cocco80
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:57 AM
I think - yes.
Ranking points don't lie.
If she came back everybody would have to live with that and that means - say good bye to their current ranking. :devil:

danieln1
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:03 AM
No if she plays like she was playing before the retirement.

:haha:
Yeah, with those bagels that she was eating, it wouldn´t be fair to Ana, Maria and all the othre player that Henin would come back to number 1!
Also, once you quit, you have to start from zero

Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:04 AM
I don't think so. A lot of the WTA officials are so pissed at her. It didn't help that she skipped the ITF awards dinner last week to go to a Yannick Noah concert. :o

You can't just quit and then come back a month later. You can take a break and then come back a month later, but Henin said she was quitting.

I think they'd make her work her ranking back up again if she pulled that stunt.

Everybody is entitled to change their minds!
And also, by the rule, she still has a lot of points in the 52 weeks rolling more that the current #1.

I have an idea, i will make this a poll...

LightWarrior
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:19 AM
When Hingis made her comeback she wans't awarded a special ranking. She not even ranked.

hacberto
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:20 AM
I don't think so but if they do she totally deserves it but in my opinion she'll never come back. I'm not gonna lie when she retired I was so happy but the game just feels so different so empty I mean she was so good last year that you'll remember her for the rest of this year.

Anyways I became a fan of Serena at the Australian Open 05 semis so I don't think if I'm wrong but didn't the WTA give her a special seeding, #1 in 2004, when she came back from surgery??

kwilliams
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:28 AM
I don't think so but if they do she totally deserves it but in my opinion she'll never come back. I'm not gonna lie when she retired I was so happy but the game just feels so different so empty I mean she was so good last year that you'll remember her for the rest of this year.

Anyways I became a fan of Serena at the Australian Open 05 semis so I don't think if I'm wrong but didn't the WTA give her a special seeding, #1 in 2004, when she came back from surgery??

Yeah, I think they gave her the #1 seed at Wimbledon in 2004 despite her ranking but Wimbledon is different.

I don't think the WTA would reinstate her ranking. She is an adult and I'm sure she did not enter into her decision lightly, if she made the wrong choice the other players shouldn't have to suffer. She could have taken a break, an extended break but she thought about it and she decided to retire. She's a professional and I don't think she would expect her ranking to be handed back to her, maybe working her way back up the rankings would be a new challenge, something that was missing before she quit.

hankqq
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:29 AM
Everybody is entitled to change their minds!
And also, by the rule, she still has a lot of points in the 52 weeks rolling more that the current #1.

I have an idea, i will make this a poll...


Of course, she can change her mind, but that's why many suggested that she take a break. A break is not permanent. A retirement is intended to be permanent.

I'm not a fan of hers, but I hope she comes back some day because she's good competition for my favorites. Still, once you retire, you give up any points you had at the time you quit. She'll have to start her ranking from scratch if she returns.

Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:37 AM
When Hingis made her comeback she wans't awarded a special ranking. She not even ranked.

The difference is that Martina has no points in the 52 weeks rolling..
Justine's is different, she retired #1 and even till now, a month later, she still has a sizeable lead in points if you count the last 52 weeks rolling over the the current #1.

hacberto
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:54 AM
How shit works
Wimbledon is gonna be slower this year and Justine is retired
Man, That sucks

hacberto
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:55 AM
The difference is that Martina has no points in the 52 weeks rolling..
Justine's is different, she retired #1 and even till now, a month later, she still has a sizeable lead in points if you count the last 52 weeks rolling over the the current #1.

Yeah That's a Fact

Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 06:02 AM
How shit works
Wimbledon is gonna be slower this year and Justine is retired
Man, That sucks

Honestly i can't still get over this fantasy....
I have this since she annouoned her retirement:
"She was practicing in grass all the clay court season for preparation on her comeback at Wimbledon, by virtue of a wildcard she played in SW19 and finally winning the title!"
"Her retirement was a back-story, all along she was planning a grass assault just when her rivals were thinking she is no longer a threat, an element of surprise catching them off-guard!"

LegendsofTennis
Jun 10th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Justine should not comeback! She is not missed at all! Good riddance!

Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 06:51 AM
Justine should not comeback! She is not missed at all! Good riddance!

hmm....K...........

tequila
Jun 10th, 2008, 07:16 AM
Wonder what WTA officials would do if she did come back. Would they reinstate her with her points and make her number 1 again or make her co-number 1 with the current number 1 or some strange compromise. Would make the rankings interesting. :lol:

Wojtek
Jun 10th, 2008, 07:25 AM
stupid thread - she won't comeback

kittyking
Jun 10th, 2008, 07:34 AM
Justine officially retired meaning that she lost all her points. She wasn't injured and she sure as heck didn't get pregnant or her belly would be bigger than her boobs by now, so she isn't entitled to a protected ranking.

Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 07:54 AM
stupid thread - she won't comeback

why would this be a stupid thread... its just hypothetical.....:rolleyes:

Slumpsova
Jun 10th, 2008, 07:57 AM
i think when you wrote your name off the ranking you can't get it back. it would be unfair.
let TBE clears this question though.

Junex
Jun 10th, 2008, 08:39 AM
Another question:

If Justine will play Wimbledon by virtue of a wildcard, does it necessarily imply that she is officially back on tour?
what if she will only play Wimbledon all season and win it?
Can she play GS with a retired status? (since GS are run by ITF & GS Organizers/Committee and not by WTA)

Mileen
Jun 10th, 2008, 08:49 AM
Another question:

If Justine will play Wimbledon by virtue of a wildcard, does it necessarily imply that she is officially back on tour?
what if she will only play Wimbledon all season and win it?

Then she wouldn't be on the rankings, since you have to have played at least 3 tournaments to get a ranking. In other words, she would have a 1000 points in silence: a record!
The only reason Justine would have to build up her ranking again is because she got herself off the rankings, she said to be removed from the rankings. If she would have retired without doing that, she would still have had points. Then if she would have come back, right now at this moment, she would have been #1 immediately. She would probably be the #2 seed at Wimbly. Ana only needs around 130+ points to become the #1 after Eastbourne.

Destiny
Jun 10th, 2008, 09:02 AM
Stop reminiscing and wishing she's not coming back and thats it

If she does then good until she does live it alone :mad:

Kworb
Jun 10th, 2008, 09:19 AM
A very intriguing question similar to my own thread. Some people talk about protected rankings and they have clearly missed the point. If Justine were to come back right now, the points she earned in the last 52 weeks would put her at #1; she wouldn't need a protected ranking. I think that if Justine were to claim that her retirement was an error in judgement and would like to come back to the tour starting with Wimbledon, the WTA would have no choice but to rank her back at #1, at least until Wimbledon is over. The question then is, if it were a last minute decision, what rankings would they look at when deciding seeds, the ones with or without Justine? Another question is, would the WTA even allow Justine to come back; how much time needs to have passed following a retirement for a player to be able to return?

Wojtek
Jun 10th, 2008, 10:39 AM
Stop reminiscing and wishing she's not coming back and thats it

If she does then good until she does live it alone :mad:

i agree this thread is for hater to write bullshit about Justine - post 2 or 5

!Gio!
Jun 10th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Justine should not comeback! She is not missed at all! Good riddance!

Really, well I can tell you that you wouldnt be missed much if you got banned.:devil:

Dawson.
Jun 10th, 2008, 11:20 AM
she requested to be taken off the rankings. now that ana is number 1, she cant just change her mind!

it aint gonna happen thoigh so i have no idea im even commenting on this thread! :lol:

Expat
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Another question:

If Justine will play Wimbledon by virtue of a wildcard, does it necessarily imply that she is officially back on tour?
what if she will only play Wimbledon all season and win it?
Can she play GS with a retired status? (since GS are run by ITF & GS Organizers/Committee and not by WTA)

by virtue of retirement and gold emeritus status she can come back to any slam she wants w/o having to go through the rigors of playing tournaments
she is eligible for a wild card its up to the slams to decide though
i dont think anyone will deny if she decides to play again

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:19 PM
A very intriguing question similar to my own thread. Some people talk about protected rankings and they have clearly missed the point. If Justine were to come back right now, the points she earned in the last 52 weeks would put her at #1; she wouldn't need a protected ranking. I think that if Justine were to claim that her retirement was an error in judgement and would like to come back to the tour starting with Wimbledon, the WTA would have no choice but to rank her back at #1, at least until Wimbledon is over. The question then is, if it were a last minute decision, what rankings would they look at when deciding seeds, the ones with or without Justine? Another question is, would the WTA even allow Justine to come back; how much time needs to have passed following a retirement for a player to be able to return?


what sort of reasoning is that..she retired..took herself off the rankings...which means those 52 weeks don't exist anymore in terms of points that she has...:weirdo: you think the WTA has no choice but to put her back on top the rankings??? let's just put back everyone where they were before they retired...

Kworb
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:23 PM
what sort of reasoning is that..she retired..took herself off the rankings...which means those 52 weeks don't exist anymore in terms of points that she has...:weirdo: you think the WTA has no choice but to put her back on top the rankings??? let's just put back everyone where they were before they retired...
But those 52 weeks would exist if she were to come back. How bizarre would it be if she'd be back at 0 while being the defending champion at the US Open, YEC, among others?

If for example Graf were to return, she would have 0 points because she has no results in the past 52 weeks. Henin's case is different.

thrust
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Perhaps coming back for Wimbledon without a ranking would be good for her. Playing a top ranked player early would give her an idea as to the condition of her game without working too hard. She is a better grass court player than most of the top ten players. Again, I still think her retirement had to do with some sort of physical problem she is keeping to herself. Hopefully, she will return to the game in some capacity.

Mileen
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:31 PM
A very intriguing question similar to my own thread. Some people talk about protected rankings and they have clearly missed the point. If Justine were to come back right now, the points she earned in the last 52 weeks would put her at #1; she wouldn't need a protected ranking. I think that if Justine were to claim that her retirement was an error in judgement and would like to come back to the tour starting with Wimbledon, the WTA would have no choice but to rank her back at #1, at least until Wimbledon is over. The question then is, if it were a last minute decision, what rankings would they look at when deciding seeds, the ones with or without Justine? Another question is, would the WTA even allow Justine to come back; how much time needs to have passed following a retirement for a player to be able to return?

No, read my post ^. She wouldn't be put on #1. She asked to be removed from the rankings, that's why. She has no points whatsoever right now. If she would have kept herself on the rankings while retiring, then she would have been #1 again immediately. As soon as you remove yourself from the ranking, you lose all your points. That's why Lindsay kept herself on the ranking, obviously she let the option open to come back after her retirement.
Justine should have kept herself on the rankings for world's #1's history-sake, and only remove herself after she would have become #2, probably about 2 weeks (Ana only needs 120+ points to become #1 after Eastbourne).
Btw, they have counted her weeks wrong, she's been 118 weeks on top spot. The last week should have been counted.

Kworb
Jun 10th, 2008, 01:48 PM
No, read my post ^. She wouldn't be put on #1. She asked to be removed from the rankings, that's why. She has no points whatsoever right now. If she would have kept herself on the rankings while retiring, then she would have been #1 again immediately. As soon as you remove yourself from the ranking, you lose all your points. That's why Lindsay kept herself on the ranking, obviously she let the option open to come back after her retirement.
Justine should have kept herself on the rankings for world's #1's history-sake, and only remove herself after she would have become #2, probably about 2 weeks (Ana only needs 120+ points to become #1 after Eastbourne).
Btw, they have counted her weeks wrong, she's been 118 weeks on top spot. The last week should have been counted.
Nowhere in the rules does it say what happens to players who retire and then return within a year. It only says that ranking points are valid for 52 weeks. "Removing yourself from the rankings" is not defined, so you can't say with certainty that it means all points are lost.

"If a player has decided to retire, she must submit a written request to
the WTA in order to have her name removed from the WTA Tour
Rankings."

They only talk about her name, not removing all her earned points from the system.

DownTheLine21
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:06 PM
No. She would be deservedly unranked.

QUEENLINDSAY
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:08 PM
dont sweat yourself for something that aint gonna happen.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Nowhere in the rules does it say what happens to players who retire and then return within a year. It only says that ranking points are valid for 52 weeks. "Removing yourself from the rankings" is not defined, so you can't say with certainty that it means all points are lost.

"If a player has decided to retire, she must submit a written request to
the WTA in order to have her name removed from the WTA Tour
Rankings."

They only talk about her name, not removing all her earned points from the system.

where would you get that idea :weirdo: do you realise that's the same thing :weirdo: removing yourself from the rankings is saying " i don't want my name there or want any points"...the last 52 weeks don't exist...that's why its called RETIRING and REMOVING YOURSELF FROM THE RANKINGS

points are only valid once you are an ACTIVE player...not retired and come back one month later

spiritedenergy
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Obviously even the non-participation in RG due to her abrupt retirement she still has a lead over current #1 Ana by roughly 400 points.

If she comeback lets before Wimbledon, will she be reinstated as the #1 player in the world?
Does the rules allow that?
Would it be fair to Ana and the rest...?
what do yout think guys..................

No, she asked for her points to be taken out. I also think and hope that she won't be so stupid to announce an official retirement and come back after 1 month.:weirdo:

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Justine should not comeback! She is not missed at all! Good riddance!

Looking at your reputation, you won't be missed at all too. GOOD RIDDANCE!

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Looking at your reputation, you won't be missed at all too. GOOD RIDDANCE!

is it finally banned :unsure:

¤CharlDa¤
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:22 PM
She clearly asked to be removed from the rankings, so she will be, that means her amount of points is now destroyed. If she comes back, she will have to start over again at the bottom, though a bit like Clijsters when she came back, it probably wont take that long.

Kworb
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:35 PM
removing yourself from the rankings is saying " i don't want my name there or want any points"...the last 52 weeks don't exist...that's why its called RETIRING and REMOVING YOURSELF FROM THE RANKINGS

She clearly asked to be removed from the rankings, so she will be, that means her amount of points is now destroyed.
Baseless assumptions. You can only remove your name from the rankings, which means you're simply "whited out" from official publications because you're considered retired and no longer a professional tennis player. You can't remove your past results or points you have earned; if you can, it's not documented anywhere.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:52 PM
you're retarded :weirdo:

tequila
Jun 10th, 2008, 02:58 PM
Baseless assumptions. You can only remove your name from the rankings, which means you're simply "whited out" from official publications because you're considered retired and no longer a professional tennis player. You can't remove your past results or points you have earned; if you can, it's not documented anywhere.

They mean if you remove your name from the rankings, you've erased your past. It's the twilight zone. :lol:

Tennisstar86
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:05 PM
no, she would get wild cards into Tournys prolly...but no she would not be #1....

SAEKeithSerena
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:46 PM
this thread is absolutely pointless.

good laugh.

DA FOREHAND
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:48 PM
I think - yes.
Ranking points don't lie.
If she came back everybody would have to live with that and that means - say good bye to their current ranking. :devil:

No she would not. She has been removed from the rankings, so what ranking points are you speaking of?

She would be ranked lower than Alex Stevenson

DA FOREHAND
Jun 10th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Baseless assumptions. You can only remove your name from the rankings, which means you're simply "whited out" from official publications because you're considered retired and no longer a professional tennis player. You can't remove your past results or points you have earned; if you can, it's not documented anywhere.

get off the internet, don't you hear your short school bus honking for you?:tape:

cocco80
Jun 10th, 2008, 04:07 PM
No she would not. She has been removed from the rankings, so what ranking points are you speaking of?

She would be ranked lower than Alex Stevenson

It's not even a month since she's retired. I assume it's not the same thing.
(it's only hypothetical cuz she's not coming back and we all know that. I was just stating my opinion regarding this matter.)

I don't know what would really happen if she decides to come back.

thrust
Jun 10th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Looking at your reputation, you won't be missed at all too. GOOD RIDDANCE!

Well put!

DavidEllul
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:48 AM
:haha:
Yeah, with those bagels that she was eating, it wouldn´t be fair to Ana, Maria and all the othre player that Henin would come back to number 1!

What a bitch, everyone has her low ebb, so does Henin. Look at Maria last year, now she is doing just fine. Who tells you that Henin will never regain her form if she still plays? :tape:

Junex
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:51 AM
Some posters are so defensive!!!!
:lol:

This is just a hypothetical thread so no need to get violent!
Another point has been raised and its regarding "removing your name from the rankings".
But the key word her is "reinstate"...
If she were to return now, can she challenge by technicality the tour to reinstate her #1 ranking?
Obviously her case is different from those who have retired before her.

Junex
Jun 11th, 2008, 01:55 AM
Then she wouldn't be on the rankings, since you have to have played at least 3 tournaments to get a ranking. In other words, she would have a 1000 points in silence: a record! The only reason Justine would have to build up her ranking again is because she got herself off the rankings, she said to be removed from the rankings. If she would have retired without doing that, she would still have had points. Then if she would have come back, right now at this moment, she would have been #1 immediately. She would probably be the #2 seed at Wimbly. Ana only needs around 130+ points to become the #1 after Eastbourne.

A record indeed but it would be awkward to think of...
Besides the rule says 3 tournaments in the ranking period, so meaning in the last 52 weeks, therefore is she still eligible to be ranked hence her last 52 weeks performance?
Or is it really that by virtue of her retirements her last 52 weeks record will be deleted and not considered?

(also consider my previous post)

Junex
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:00 AM
Tho those who don't want to discuss this "hypothetical" thread (issue), might as well not post.
This thread is for those who actually have the time and resources to provide a sensible and intelligent points regarding the matter.

:bye:

DownTheLine21
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:03 AM
I don't understand why people think she could challenge for her points. They don't exist anymore, and she's been removed from the rankings. If Henin decided to return to the WTA, she would be ranked 9999.

Hurley
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:36 AM
Baseless assumptions. You can only remove your name from the rankings, which means you're simply "whited out" from official publications because you're considered retired and no longer a professional tennis player. You can't remove your past results or points you have earned; if you can, it's not documented anywhere.

You asked the question. We're sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted. Now STFU.

Pasta-Na
Jun 11th, 2008, 02:39 AM
hope some of my favourites have her bh :p

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:13 AM
I don't understand why people think she could challenge for her points. They don't exist anymore, and she's been removed from the rankings. If Henin decided to return to the WTA, she would be ranked 9999.

i dunno why people fail to see this FACT!!! one would think there is a reason why they are called ACTIVE players :shrug:

Kworb
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:37 AM
You asked the question. We're sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted. Now STFU.
What are you talking about? I didn't ask any question. This is a discussion about what the WTA would do if Henin were to return as an active player on the WTA tour. There is no definite answer as there are no written rules regarding this hypothetical situation, for which there is no precedent.

I think, based on the rules that we do have, that only her name has been removed from the rankings, not her points or results. Therefore, if her name were to be added back to the rankings, it would still have the points and results of the last 52 weeks attached to it, and she would automatically be #1 given the lead over Ivanovic that she would have.

Others are only screaming "she retired, all her points are gone and they can never return" without citing any sources or anything else that would establish this as true. All we know is that points earned in tournaments are valid for 52 weeks, nothing more, nothing less. Henin is currently not in the rankings because she requested that her name be removed from them, as that is all you can do as a retiring player. Her unranked status is not a consequence of her losing all of the points she has earned.

Mileen
Jun 11th, 2008, 11:54 AM
A record indeed but it would be awkward to think of...
Besides the rule says 3 tournaments in the ranking period, so meaning in the last 52 weeks, therefore is she still eligible to be ranked hence her last 52 weeks performance?
Or is it really that by virtue of her retirements her last 52 weeks record will be deleted and not considered?

(also consider my previous post)

Neither one of both, Justine has 0 points. The key word is not retiring, but: she asked to be removed from the rankings.

p.s. your other question: could she reinstate her #1 position? Sure she could, cause she is the very best.

Mileen
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:02 PM
No, she asked for her points to be taken out. I also think and hope that she won't be so stupid to announce an official retirement and come back after 1 month.:weirdo:

Well, I do hope she's that stupid ;) :lol:

keinimod
Jun 11th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Neither one of both, Justine has 0 points. The key word is not retiring, but: she asked to be removed from the rankings.
Not so, she has 4,695 points. The act of retirement does not nullify previous results nor the corresponding points. If retirement in se would eradicate the points, the option provided for in the WTA rule book would become meaningless. In other words, if the act of retirement invalidated the points, it would serve no purpose to be removed from the rankings as the initial act of nullification of the points would already entail that de facto. The provision in the rule book implies ipso facto that the points are retained.
Secondly, since there are no specific rules concerning the -hypothetical of course- return of a player to the WTA within 52 weeks of their previous retirement, the points would be reactivated without need for any decision of the WTA, which -at the moment- would automatically be a return to the #1 spot.
The points are there, but they are meaningless at the moment (and will of course remain so) since Justine's status within the WTA is the same as that of you (I presume) or me : unranked.

Tennisstar86
Jun 11th, 2008, 04:12 PM
Not so, she has 4,695 points. The act of retirement does not nullify previous results nor the corresponding points. If retirement in se would eradicate the points, the option provided for in the WTA rule book would become meaningless. In other words, if the act of retirement invalidated the points, it would serve no purpose to be removed from the rankings as the initial act of nullification of the points would already entail that de facto. The provision in the rule book implies ipso facto that the points are retained.
Secondly, since there are no specific rules concerning the -hypothetical of course- return of a player to the WTA within 52 weeks of their previous retirement, the points would be reactivated without need for any decision of the WTA, which -at the moment- would automatically be a return to the #1 spot.
The points are there, but they are meaningless at the moment (and will of course remain so) since Justine's status within the WTA is the same as that of you (I presume) or me : unranked.

wrong.... she signed forms to have her name and points removed from the rankings.... legally binding...... the points no longer exist....

keinimod
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:45 PM
wrong.... she signed forms to have her name and points removed from the rankings.... legally binding...... the points no longer exist....
Read the WTA rule book. There's not a single indication that points are removed due to retirement. In fact, as explained previously, the only provision there is in the context of retirement implicitly indicates that they remain.
It's all hypothetical of course. She's not coming back.

Tennisstar86
Jun 11th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Read the WTA rule book. There's not a single indication that points are removed due to retirement. In fact, as explained previously, the only provision there is in the context of retirement implicitly indicates that they remain.
It's all hypothetical of course. She's not coming back.

you are correct; HOWEVER, if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that Justine asked about an hour after her press conference for the form to have her name removed from the ranking list, which means she signed papers giving up her spot and her rankings points. HAD she not signed these papers Maria wouldnt have been the #1 ranked player at RG just the #1 seed... since she did Justine has no points regardless of if she changed her mind or not. But thanks for showing your ignorance....

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 11th, 2008, 06:08 PM
you are correct; HOWEVER, if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that Justine asked about an hour after her press conference for the form to have her name removed from the ranking list, which means she signed papers giving up her spot and her rankings points. HAD she not signed these papers Maria wouldnt have been the #1 ranked player at RG just the #1 seed... since she did Justine has no points regardless of if she changed her mind or not. But thanks for showing your ignorance....

:worship: i dunno where these people are coming up with this ridiculous thing about only taking off the name and NOT ranking points....implicit in taking your name off the RANKINGS means you remove both name AND ranking points...

Kworb
Jun 11th, 2008, 06:34 PM
you are correct; HOWEVER, if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that Justine asked about an hour after her press conference for the form to have her name removed from the ranking list, which means she signed papers giving up her spot and her rankings points. HAD she not signed these papers Maria wouldnt have been the #1 ranked player at RG just the #1 seed... since she did Justine has no points regardless of if she changed her mind or not. But thanks for showing your ignorance....
What are you talking about? Henin's name was removed from the rankings which automatically made Sharapova the #1 ranked player. Nowhere does it say Henin's points would not count if she'd revert her status from unranked to ranked. She filled in a form to remove her name, that's it. She didn't fill in additional forms to set all her current points to zero; that's not even possible, and the option is not needed because no one who retires expects to return, at least not within a year. With her retirement she became inactive and would be a meaningless entry to the ranking list, that is why she removed her name. Her past results are not "erased" or "forgotten"; it doesn't work that way. If she were to return, she would reclaim the points that are still rightfully hers, because they are valid for 52 weeks, and that is simply how the ranking system works.

Tennisstar86
Jun 11th, 2008, 06:41 PM
What are you talking about? Henin's name was removed from the rankings which automatically made Sharapova the #1 ranked player. Nowhere does it say Henin's points would not count if she'd revert her status from unranked to ranked. She filled in a form to remove her name, that's it. She didn't fill in additional forms to set all her current points to zero; that's not even possible, and the option is not needed because no one who retires expects to return, at least not within a year. With her retirement she became inactive and would be a meaningless entry to the ranking list, that is why she removed her name. Her past results are not "erased" or "forgotten"; it doesn't work that way. If she were to return, she would reclaim the points that are still rightfully hers, because they are valid for 52 weeks, and that is simply how the ranking system works.

WRONG... lol why else do you think Mary Joe/ Pam... etc... made a big deal about her requesting this form instead of just waiting awhile to see? Because it made her points null so that even if she came back they wouldnt count. :tape:
Just stop while you're behind....

Kworb
Jun 11th, 2008, 06:47 PM
WRONG... lol why else do you think Mary Joe/ Pam... etc... made a big deal about her requesting this form instead of just waiting awhile to see? Because it made her points null so that even if she came back they wouldnt count. :tape:
Just stop while you're behind....
It is a big deal because she could've simply waited a while to get some more weeks at #1 and the bonuses that come with it. It is a big deal because this is the first time a player did this while being ranked #1. It has nothing to do with removing your points, that doesn't make any sense at all. If you remove your name your points don't matter anymore, so why go through that extra step that btw is not even mentioned in the 300 page WTA rule book? :confused:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 11th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Honestly i can't still get over this fantasy....
I have this since she annouoned her retirement:
"She was practicing in grass all the clay court season for preparation on her comeback at Wimbledon, by virtue of a wildcard she played in SW19 and finally winning the title!"
"Her retirement was a back-story, all along she was planning a grass assault just when her rivals were thinking she is no longer a threat, an element of surprise catching them off-guard!"

I had that fantasy too, but still think she could lose to Dechy.

hablo
Jun 11th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Hell no. :rolleyes:

She should have to earn back the #1 spot again.

Junex
Jun 12th, 2008, 03:35 AM
kudos to keinimod & kworb for making a lot of sense with logical support.

For those who say she should earn back her #1 spot, indeed, but by virtue of her past 52 weeks result, she is still rightfully thye #1 player as of this week, that is if, hypothetically, she will come back now to activity!

According to Werthless, justine requested her name and ranking points be removed since she is retired inspite of the possible bonuses she might still earn as world #1 because she wanted to leave the tour as world #1 and she doesn't want to see her ranking slip gradually. .. It makes sense however that it is only remove on the active list and that if ever she decides to comeback (hypothetically) she could request an active status again and reinstate her ranking points.

keinimod
Jun 12th, 2008, 12:46 PM
you are correct; HOWEVER, if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that Justine asked about an hour after her press conference for the form to have her name removed from the ranking list, which means she signed papers giving up her spot and her rankings points. HAD she not signed these papers Maria wouldnt have been the #1 ranked player at RG just the #1 seed... since she did Justine has no points regardless of if she changed her mind or not. But thanks for showing your ignorance....
When people have to resort to insults, it usually means they have run out of rational arguments.
At no point have I negated that Ju is no longer in the rankings. The distinction is however that this does not automatically nullify the points previously acquired in WTA tournaments. There is in fact nothing at all in WTA regulations that indicates such. As has been quoted previously, the only mention of retirement in the rule book is the following : (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/3/global/includes/TrackIt.asp?file=http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/global/pdfs/shared/thewtatour/officialrules/rules.pdf ; p. 204)

D. Retiring from the WTA Tour
If a player has decided to retire, she must submit a written request to the WTA in order to have her name removed from the WTA Tour Rankings
Note the phraseology here: the name of the player is removed from the rankings.
There is no indication at all that the points become null. That is an assumption people are making because it appears logical. But such assumptions are meaningless in the interpretation of rules (or laws). Ask any lawyer.

The only way to resolve this issue is to ask the WTA itself. That's what I've done now. When/if I get an answer I'll post it here.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 12th, 2008, 03:53 PM
When people have to resort to insults, it usually means they have run out of rational arguments.
At no point have I negated that Ju is no longer in the rankings. The distinction is however that this does not automatically nullify the points previously acquired in WTA tournaments. There is in fact nothing at all in WTA regulations that indicates such. As has been quoted previously, the only mention of retirement in the rule book is the following : (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/3/global/includes/TrackIt.asp?file=http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/global/pdfs/shared/thewtatour/officialrules/rules.pdf ; p. 204)

Note the phraseology here: the name of the player is removed from the rankings.
There is no indication at all that the points become null. That is an assumption people are making because it appears logical. But such assumptions are meaningless in the interpretation of rules (or laws). Ask any lawyer.

The only way to resolve this issue is to ask the WTA itself. That's what I've done now. When/if I get an answer I'll post it here.


ask any lawyer what the word IMPLICIT means....implicit is not an assumption...

Kworb
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:14 PM
But removing the name does not imply that points become null. It only implies that the name is removed from the ranking lists.

The Daviator
Jun 12th, 2008, 04:21 PM
But removing the name does not imply that points become null. It only implies that the name is removed from the ranking lists.

The points belong to an inactive player, so they are null.

Kworb
Jun 12th, 2008, 05:13 PM
The points belong to an inactive player, so they are null.
Exactly, they still belong to Henin, so if she would become an active player again, the points would count.