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View Full Version : Jelena vs Dementieva - Who will win a GS first?


ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 8th, 2008, 02:54 PM
These 2 players are, in my opinion, the most unlucky of the Top 10 right now as they have not won a Slam yet... Elena twice the bridesmaid to Myskina (FO 2004) and Sveta (USO 2004), while Jelena seemed to get stuck at the SF stages for 4 times... against Justine (USO 2006 and FO 2007), Maria (AO 2008) and Ana (FO 2008).

In your opinion, who do you think will win a GS first?

tennisbear7
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:02 PM
:help:

I hope both win one.

Lucas_Arg
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:26 PM
Jankovic needs a final first...

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM
i am biased...lena D

Julian
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Elena's finals were in 2004.
But besides the fact, I can see Jelena winning a GS first since she's been doing in slams better recently then Elena. But oddly enough, I can definitely see Elena reaching another final. ;)

101Tennisfan4eva
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Jankovic will definatly win a Grand slam title before Dementieva, and she should win one real soon.:eek:

Shakira4000
Jun 8th, 2008, 04:19 PM
Neither.

Dawson.
Jun 8th, 2008, 04:23 PM
neither. both chokers at grand slams

davidmario
Jun 8th, 2008, 04:34 PM
Dementieva. She can hit winners.

AnomyBC
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:33 PM
These 2 players are, in my opinion, the most unlucky of the Top 10 right now as they have not won a Slam yet...

In all honesty, I think Elena's lucky to have even gotten to 2 finals. She's just not that great of a player. Jankovic, on the other hand, definitely deserves to win one at some point.

Emina.
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:34 PM
Jj.

InsideOut.
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Tough call.

LenaD has reached two finals but it's losses like the one to Dinara that suggests she may not repeat that feat. Jelena, meanwhile, has the game to win one but she needs to get a serve and also stop choking in SFs. She has time to improve (I think :tape:) so probably her.

Oh and she needs to find a way to beat Ana. If she can't beat Ana on red clay she basically has no chance at all.

incognito
Jun 8th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Jankovic, because if just a few points in the 3rd set against Ivanovic had gone the other way, she would have been a GS champion today. The fact that she's not been in a final yet is just the luck of the draw as in RG07, AO08 and now RG08 she's lost to the eventual champion...

Dementieva's two finals OTOH were 4 years ago and since then hasn't really been a GS threat...

jfk
Jun 8th, 2008, 06:48 PM
Dementieva's time is done.

With Henin gone, Jankovic will win a slam. She's too consistent not to have a good draw eventually.

shirley
Jun 8th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Jelena...her time will come. The only thing holding her back I think is the mental side of the game...to quote some commentators she's got 'too much going on between the ears' in the semis of Grand Slams

delicatecutter
Jun 8th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Jankovic--because she can actually win finals against players she should beat. I also think she'll end up getting a good draw eventually.

ChriS.
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:28 PM
Jankovic, because if just a few points in the 3rd set against Ivanovic had gone the other way, she would have been a GS champion today. The fact that she's not been in a final yet is just the luck of the draw as in RG07, AO08 and now RG08 she's lost to the eventual champion...

Dementieva's two finals OTOH were 4 years ago and since then hasn't really been a GS threat...Yes, JJ was so close and would have easily beat Safina who did not play very well against Ana. I hope Elena wins one also. They are both good enough if they can believe in themselves.

Wiggly
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Jankovic. She'll win the Olympics then a Slam.

Nemo_Kool
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:32 PM
JJ :) and very very very soon i hope!

goldenlox
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:44 PM
They both were very close to being in this final. Those were big opportunities missed.

Dave.
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I wanna see how Jankovic will be in a final before saying that she will definetely win a slam. For her, it seems that she can beat everyone to get deep into the draw (SF) but then always runs into someone who just handles the occasion better than her.

For Lena it seems more and more unlikely that she will get another slam final. This RG was the best shot at winning one in years and I really don't understand what happened against Dinara.

hankqq
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I've never believed Dementieva would win a slam. She's got a great forehand, speed and a solid backhand, but her serve and volleys...plus when players (Safina!!) do change ups on her, her strokes go off.

Jankovic I think should win at least 1 slam, I really do. It would most likely come at any slam except Wimbledon.

LudwigDvorak
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:02 PM
Yes, Lena D is a big joke who isn't a threat to the top players at any tournament. :worship: Gotta love her overrated forehand and non-existent talent.

She should be retiring pretty soon, I think...Go JJ! She will for sure win many grand slams while Demetiva flounders in the first and second rounds of all slams in the future.

In The Zone
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Neither.

bodan
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:38 PM
Jelena, meanwhile, has the game to win one but she needs to get a serve and also stop choking in SFs.


Well, I agree with this only partially. In each match JJ lost against top 10 players this year I did not have an impression she had choked. The last point winner Ana scored in the RG final tells it all. Jelena has to work on her offensive game, serve and overall health. Otherwise, she is very consistent and can handle pressure well (e.g. AO and Miami 1R).

Julian
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:42 PM
In all honesty, I think Elena's lucky to have even gotten to 2 finals. She's just not that great of a player. Jankovic, on the other hand, definitely deserves to win one at some point.
I dont agree. Elena IMO still has the game to beat anyone in the top 10.

delicatecutter
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:55 PM
I dont agree. Elena IMO still has the game to beat anyone in the top 10.

But the last four matches she's lost have been to players outside the Top 10 at the time they played: Safina (x2), Radwanska, and Zvonareva. She has to get by them first to get in a position to win a GS. Has she ever worked with a coach other than Mommy Vera? Maybe this could help with her mentality. It would be a shame for a player with so much raw talent and ability to never win a Slam.

elise1986
Jun 8th, 2008, 10:21 PM
in Jankovic`s case it definitely depends on the draw imo ... as soon as she meets one of the "big hitters" she'll be out of the slam

Bruno71
Jun 8th, 2008, 10:23 PM
in Jankovic`s case it definitely depends on the draw imo ... as soon as she meets one of the "big hitters" she'll be out of the slam

Like Venus?

Topspin2
Jun 8th, 2008, 10:42 PM
Go Dementieva!!!

LudwigDvorak
Jun 8th, 2008, 11:42 PM
But the last four matches she's lost have been to players outside the Top 10 at the time they played: Safina (x2), Radwanska, and Zvonareva. She has to get by them first to get in a position to win a GS. Has she ever worked with a coach other than Mommy Vera? Maybe this could help with her mentality. It would be a shame for a player with so much raw talent and ability to never win a Slam.

Clay. I like her chances against Safina and Zvonareva who are great on clay on hardcourts, HER best surface.

And yes, several. Most notably, Morozova for the majority of '04 and the early part of '05. She has a part-time coach now when she returns to Moscow. I accredit him for helping her serve and winning Moscow/the success she's had in '08.

it's not like she isn't beating top 20 players either.

Corswandt
Jun 8th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Jankovic I think should win at least 1 slam, I really do. It would most likely come at any slam except Wimbledon.

Actually, Jankovic's best shot at a Slam probably is Wimbledon. Grass actually makes her puffball serve less vulnerable, and she's the best grasscourt mover this side of Venus Williams - by very, very far.

hankqq
Jun 9th, 2008, 02:54 AM
Actually, Jankovic's best shot at a Slam probably is Wimbledon. Grass actually makes her puffball serve less vulnerable, and she's the best grasscourt mover this side of Venus Williams - by very, very far.


but hasn't she lost to Myskina and Bartoli the last few years?

anyway playing on grass should be a disadvantage to Jankovic if she faces a big server/hitter, as her serve will be broken but she'll have less chances to break back.

Shakira4000
Jun 9th, 2008, 03:04 AM
but hasn't she lost to Myskina and Bartoli the last few years?

Jelena has beaten Venus at Wimbledon before. And losing to Myskina and Bartoli (especially last year with the run she had!) is nothing terrible.

Corswandt
Jun 9th, 2008, 03:06 AM
but hasn't she lost to Myskina and Bartoli the last few years?

Myskina was one of the top three grasscourt players back in 2006.

The 2007 Bartoli loss was Jankovic playing zombie tennis after nearly killing herself by playing at least 9 (nine) consecutive weeks, going deep in all of them and sometimes playing doubles. Plus "hohoho she's fat" Marion was playing shit hot tennis back then.

anyway playing on grass should be a disadvantage to Jankovic if she faces a big server/hitter, as her serve will be broken but she'll have less chances to break back.

Unwarranted analogies with the men's game. Serve by itself rarely is decisive in the WTA - unless the opponents are otherwise evenly matched.

Danči Dementia
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:23 AM
Come one Elena.....I will always believe in you....you can do it..I mean if she has been in the top ten for some years staying there hanging there she fell out of top ten because of injury but hey she is back.....you have to admire her endurance and that forehand OMG!!!.

And her serve has improved

AcesHigh
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:23 AM
Jankovic is not going to win Wimbledon. I don't care what anyone says really, the serve is a very important weapon at Wimbledon. Who was the last champion at Wimbledon who didnt have an effective if not offensive serve? It's not the same as the ATP, but it still matters. She's a retriever, counterpuncher, with little offensive game compared to the rest of hte top players. Although I admit, there is a HUGE tendency on this board to simplify her game and say she will automatically lose to big hitters which IS NOT TRUE. But whenever Jelena plays the likes of Sharapova, Venus, Serena, or even Davenport, Ivanovic or Kuznetsova.. the match will not be in her hands. She just does not have the adequate firepower nor the variety and net skills of a Henin or Mauresmo.

That being said, Dementieva has not been a top 5 contender for a slam in a long time and it's hard to see her as more than a darkhorse. Meanwhile, Jelena has been on the cusp since 2006. She will win more than one slam, while Elena IMO will be lucky to win just one. Although she's improving some parts of her game, she's still getting older.

However, weirder things have happened and anything is possible. I just think Jelena's chances are MUCH higher. She's a top 3 player while ED just returned to the top 10 not much more than 6 months ago.

Huntress55
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:32 AM
Jelena for sure :D

samsam4087
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:42 AM
Elena Dementieva

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:47 AM
Elena Dementieva

I was expecting a picture :sad:

aussie_fan
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Neither will end up getting one

hankqq
Jun 9th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Jankovic is not going to win Wimbledon. I don't care what anyone says really, the serve is a very important weapon at Wimbledon. Who was the last champion at Wimbledon who didnt have an effective if not offensive serve? It's not the same as the ATP, but it still matters. She's a retriever, counterpuncher, with little offensive game compared to the rest of hte top players. Although I admit, there is a HUGE tendency on this board to simplify her game and say she will automatically lose to big hitters which IS NOT TRUE. But whenever Jelena plays the likes of Sharapova, Venus, Serena, or even Davenport, Ivanovic or Kuznetsova.. the match will not be in her hands. She just does not have the adequate firepower nor the variety and net skills of a Henin or Mauresmo.

That being said, Dementieva has not been a top 5 contender for a slam in a long time and it's hard to see her as more than a darkhorse. Meanwhile, Jelena has been on the cusp since 2006. She will win more than one slam, while Elena IMO will be lucky to win just one. Although she's improving some parts of her game, she's still getting older.

However, weirder things have happened and anything is possible. I just think Jelena's chances are MUCH higher. She's a top 3 player while ED just returned to the top 10 not much more than 6 months ago.

Hingis in 1997 was the last player with a weak serve to win. Since then it's been Novotna, Davenport, Venus 2X, Serena 2X, Sharapova, Venus, Mauresmo and Venus again.

I agree with this post for the most part. Yes, Jankovic did beat Venus at Wimbledon is 2006. It wouldn't be too surprising to see her beat 1 or at the most 2 (but that's pushing it) of the following on grass: Venus, Serena, Sharapova, Ivanovic, Kuznetsova or Davenport, but she'll likely have to get through an additional top player to win the title, and I don't see that happening. It's harder to break on grass if you're playing someone with a big serve and/or big groundies or someone who can volley. Jankovic does not have a big serve, so she'll still get broken but will have a harder time breaking her opponents if they can serve big/hit through her.


Myskina was one of the top three grasscourt players back in 2006.

The 2007 Bartoli loss was Jankovic playing zombie tennis after nearly killing herself by playing at least 9 (nine) consecutive weeks, going deep in all of them and sometimes playing doubles. Plus "hohoho she's fat" Marion was playing shit hot tennis back then.



Unwarranted analogies with the men's game. Serve by itself rarely is decisive in the WTA - unless the opponents are otherwise evenly matched.

About Myskina-yes she did well that year, but let's not kid ourselves. I distinctly remember the Myskina/Jankovic match as being an unusual grass match given the amount of breaks it had (both players both broke at least 8 times each), since neither had a great serve but both could break. It was similar to Jankovic's match vs. Paszek at this year's AO, except Myskina came out on top.

About the Bartoli match-yes Bartoli was on a hot streak, but still it was a loss. Jankovic could not hold her serve in that match again, and that's a problem for her.

Finally, I wouldn't say the serve is an unwarranted analogy with the men's game-it's just a little different (think of it as crucial break vs. crucial hold). In the men's game, 1 or 2 breaks per set, especially on grass, will probably decide the match. In the women's game, obviously we see more breaks, but it's the player who can hold her serve with greater ease who usually wins. One difference in the women's game is that most of the big servers are also good at breaking serve, so someone like Jankovic should have the hardest time winning a grass slam. We know that big servers like Venus and Sharapova (unless they aren't playing well) don't struggle nearly as much to hold their serve on grass than compared to on clay.

Again imagine Jankovic having to beat 3 of the following to win Wimbledon: Venus, Serena, Sharapova, Ivanovic, Kuznetsova, Davenport, and I think it's just too much for her to handle.

samsam4087
Jun 9th, 2008, 05:07 AM
http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/cp/sports/pm/i/dementieva_2.jpg

Shane54
Jun 9th, 2008, 05:28 AM
Jankovic, because if just a few points in the 3rd set against Ivanovic had gone the other way, she would have been a GS champion today. The fact that she's not been in a final yet is just the luck of the draw as in RG07, AO08 and now RG08 she's lost to the eventual champion...

Whose to say she would have beaten Safina?;)

The Kaz
Jun 9th, 2008, 06:58 AM
in Jankovic`s case it definitely depends on the draw imo ... as soon as she meets one of the "big hitters" she'll be out of the slam

Jankovic H2H with Serena - 3-3
Jankovic H2H with Venus - 4-3

kthanxbye

Shakira4000
Jun 9th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Jankovic H2H with Serena - 3-3
Jankovic H2H with Venus - 4-3

kthanxbye

Sharapova leads 4-1
Ivanovic leads 6-1