PDA

View Full Version : Wimbledon is slower than AO and USO?


Bartosh
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:10 AM
The nineteen courts used for Wimbledon are all composed purely of rye grass. The speed of 100% rye grass is much slower than the 80% rye grass mix previously used for the courts. This means that serve and volley players are no longer dominant on the surface which now favours baseliners, and has seen Wimbledon fall from being the fastest Grand Slam to the 3rd fastest, behind the U.S. Open and Australian Open. Among women, the serve and volley strategy has been less common since around 1980.

:weirdo: It's true? Grass this year is the same like last year? :scratch:

Dodoboy.
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Well, it definitely is getting slower and slower.

~{X}~
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:12 AM
I don't know if it is slower than the Australian Open, but it has fallen far behind in speed of the US Open.

The US Open is the fastest court surface out of the slams now, and has been since they changed the grass at Wimbledon, which really has become sadly slow.

Dave.
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:14 AM
I hate that. Why have a grasscourt season at all if it's gonna be slower than hardcourt? :o

Slutiana
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:15 AM
It's not as slow as AO but definatly slower than USO. Its a shame, because the slower surface favours the men rather than the women. IMO.

Polikarpov
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:29 AM
I really don't like how the grass courts at Wimbledon have become slower and slower. I mean what's the point? They might as well change the surface into hard.

hingis-seles
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Yes, it has become much slower. If only Monica had played on such grass courts. :p

new-york
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Yes, it has become much slower. If only Monica had played on such grass courts. :p

opportunist.:p

i do hope that it won't get any slower.

last year they were some nasty loopy shots and the cour was actually taking them pretty well.:mad:

Dani12
Jun 8th, 2008, 09:40 AM
It's annoying. Especially since Australians like fast surfaces :sad:

johnoo
Jun 8th, 2008, 10:08 AM
:weirdo: It's true? Grass this year is the same like last year? :scratch:

well you know its slow when nadal reaches 2 wimbly finals in a row and was very close to beating roger last year,nadal has little chance of winning the USO or AO but a very good chance of winning wimbledon,if not this year very soon,I think that tells you how slow they have made the courts with the 100% rye grass,we can only hope they choose to go back to the 80% but I doubt it since we don't have a serve and volley player like henman anymore in britain.

Jakeev
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Still, the balls bounce much lower than say a slow-red clay court at Roland Garros which still favors power players like Venus and Serena Williams.

LDF
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:07 PM
It's definitely slower than the US Open, and now that the AO has changed to Plexicushion I'd say it's about the same speed as that...

rockstar
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:09 PM
yeah, at least the ball bounce is still low :shrug:

Dawson.
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:09 PM
its slower than the US, but now the AO surface has changed, its no where near as slow. plus, the ball still stays pretty low

Highlandman
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:16 PM
:eek: :o

Hopefully it is not too slow :o Not that Venus chances to win it will drop down :mad: :awww:

I don't like it when grass is going slower and slower. Grass stands for a very fast surface. :(

Natalicious
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:17 PM
amelie will never ever win a slam again :lol:

kwilliams
Jun 8th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Change it back!!!

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 8th, 2008, 01:07 PM
*sigh* unfortunately yes

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 8th, 2008, 01:12 PM
Last year was already incredibly slow.... if they make it even slower, Nadal will be the champ.... or even Bartoli... :tape:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 8th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Last year was already incredibly slow.... if they make it even slower, Nadal will be the champ.... or even Bartoli... :tape:

Carla Suarez Navarro??
Anabel Medina G????

:tape:

Sean.
Jun 8th, 2008, 01:26 PM
:sad: You mean you can actually see the ball now?

hablo
Jun 8th, 2008, 01:35 PM
That sucks.

I wonder they have decided to slow down the courts this much ? :weirdo:

Direwolf
Jun 8th, 2008, 02:26 PM
its really disgusting nowadays...
its slow..
and has super duper ugly bounces
sometimes

Il Primo!
Jun 8th, 2008, 02:52 PM
Shameful!

DemWilliamsGulls
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:19 PM
No i think the court is still faster than both surfaces and it still bounce lower than both as well. With the balls being heavier it definately makes it move faster than both hard courts. I can tell from just lookin at how the ball moves on the screen.

DownTheLine21
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:22 PM
In terms of speed, I would rank it below the USO, but above the AO.

davidmario
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:27 PM
AO was extremely slow this year. Almost like a claycourt.
They really want the WS to lose, it seems:o

I see a Suarez Navarro reaching the Quarters here:weirdo:

~{X}~
Jun 8th, 2008, 03:32 PM
No i think the court is still faster than both surfaces and it still bounce lower than both as well. With the balls being heavier it definately makes it move faster than both hard courts. I can tell from just lookin at how the ball moves on the screen.

Even commentators last year at the US Open, like John McEnroe was saying that the US Open has the fastest court of the 4 Grand Slams.

requiem
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:09 PM
FROM
GM thread about GS Surfaces (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=329375)
GM thread


STANDINGS:



% Return Games Won

41.10% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA 1st round)
40.24% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
40.09% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA 2nd round)
39.43% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
39.11% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA 1st round)
38.78% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA 1st round)
38.54% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA 2nd round)
38.51% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
37.96% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA 2nd round)
36.68% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA 2nd round)
35.34% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
34.66% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA 1st round)
32.98% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA 1st round)
31.53% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
28.38% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA 2nd round)
__________________________________________________ _________

24.86% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP 2nd round)
24.33% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP 2nd round)
24.03% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
23.89% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP 1st round)
23.78% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
23.55% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP 2nd round)
23.46% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
23.42% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP 1st round)
23.23% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP 1st round)
22.09% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP 1st round)
21.93% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
21.60% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP 2nd round)
17.40% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP 1st round)
17.31% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
17.13% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP 2nd round)





% Server Points Won

65.75% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP 2nd round)
65.61% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
65.53% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP 1st round)
63.67% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP 2nd round)
63.32% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
63.16% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP 1st round)
62.39% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP 1st round)
62.23% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP 1st round)
62.20% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
62.10% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP 2nd round)
61.98% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
61.92% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP 1st round)
61.86% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
61.80% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP 2nd round)
61.15% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP 2nd round)
__________________________________________________ _________

59.37% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA 2nd round)
58.06% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
57.46% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA 1st round)
56.64% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA 1st round)
56.43% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
56.00% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA 2nd round)
55.52% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA 2nd round)
55.02% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA 2nd round)
54.75% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
54.62% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA 1st round)
54.56% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
54.43% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA 1st round)
54.37% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
54.24% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA 2nd round)
54.06% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA 1st round)





% Aces (of Total Points)

8.68% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP 1st round)
8.62% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP 1st round)
8.59% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
8.54% - Wim/07 Grass (ATP 2nd round)
8.53% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
8.33% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP 1st round)
8.28% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
8.22% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (ATP 2nd round)
8.19% - USO/07 Hardcourt (ATP 2nd round)
6.78% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP 1st round)
6.58% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
6.18% - AO/08 Plexicushion (ATP 2nd round)
5.48% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP 2nd round)
5.25% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP total 1st & 2nd round)
5.14% - RG/07 Red Clay (ATP 1st round)
__________________________________________________ _________

4.57% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA 2nd round)
4.05% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
3.90% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA 2nd round)
3.81% - Wim/07 Grass (WTA 1st round)
3.55% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
3.42% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA 2nd round)
3.38% - USO/07 Hardcourt (WTA 1st round)
3.25% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
3.17% - AO/07 Rebound Ace (WTA 1st round)
2.99% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA 2nd round)
2.73% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA 1st round)
2.67% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
2.53% - AO/08 Plexicushion (WTA 2nd round)
2.49% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA total 1st & 2nd round)
2.23% - RG/07 Red Clay (WTA 1st round)
[/SIZE][/B]

I think that one should look at this before making any statement. It still shows that wimbledon might be fastest og them all. Oh, and dont mind plexicoushion being bold i just copied and was not into making wimbledon bold

InsideOut.
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:13 PM
^Did Pin play at Wimbledon?

jamatthews
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:16 PM
^Did Pin play at Wimbledon?

How do you think Schnyder made it past the 1st round? :hehehe:

hankqq
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Unfortunately, the grass used at Wimbledon has been slowed down in recent years. Originally, the grass they used was very fast, and helped serve & volleyers. Starting in the '90's in the men's game, a bunch of big servers popped up. They started serving so fast that most of the points were over too quickly-either because the returner a) couldn't return the serves or b) returned the serves, but his return was so weak all the server had to do in response was an easy put-away shot. A lot of fans started complaining about the lack of rallies and how boring it became. So, in the last few years, Wimbledon officials slowed the grass down, but I think they slowed it down too much. This was evident in 2002 when the men's final was between Hewitt and Nalbandian, who are not traditional grass players and hardly even went to net during the match. :o It should be noted that both Hewitt and Nalbandian do volley well and have added more net play into their games since that time, but didn't use it too much during their Wimbledon final.

Now of course, grass is still grass and players with good serves, volleys and slices can do well, but these days it's possible to do well on grass if a player doesn't come in to volley much or plays a clay game. They need to speed the grass up a bit-not back to where it was in the '90's, but faster than what it is now!!

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Not slower than AO, no. USO is probably slightly faster than Wimbly, but because the ball skids more on grass, it's hard to tell.

I miss the lightning fast grass courts too...

johnoo
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:38 PM
They need to speed the grass up a bit-not back to where it was in the '90's, but faster than what it is now!!
well it used to be 80% rye grass and 20% other grass so why not instead of 100% rye 90% rye and 10% other? what really will be interesting is how the grass plays once they have the roof finished and they play a match with it closed,that could really slow things down even more or maybe not,only time will tell.

wally1
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:46 PM
How much grass has slowed down continually gets repeated, till it's become a mantra that everybody just believes. Maybe it has slightly, but it's very marginal. If you get the chance go and watch the play on the outside courts of wimbledon in the first week. It's staggering how quick and low the bounce seems (especially if you've just come from Paris wathching the French Open!)

It seems slower because you get many more and longer rallies. Why do you get more rallies? Because everyone plays from the baseline, also hitting with much more topspin then they used to, which of course makes the ball bounce higher than slice. Why does everyone play from the baseline? Because changes in rackets and strings make it far, far easier to hit passing shots against the net rusher. This has far more to do with the current style of play than any marginal slowing of the surface.

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:47 PM
How much grass has slowed down continually gets repeated, till it's become a mantra that everybody just believes. Maybe it has slightly, but it's very marginal. If you get the chance go and watch the play on the outside courts of wimbledon in the first week. It's staggering how quick and low the bounce seems (especially if you've just come from Paris wathching the French Open!)

It seems slower because you get many more and longer rallies. Why do you get more rallies? Because everyone plays from the baseline, also hitting with much more topspin then they used to, which of course makes the ball bounce higher than slice. Why does everyone play from the baseline? Because changes in rackets and strings make it far, far easier to hit passing shots against the net rusher. This has far more to do with the current style of play than any marginal slowing of the surface.
I kind of agree with this, I think some commentators have exaggerated the slowing down of the surface.

Serenidad.
Jun 8th, 2008, 05:52 PM
Grass is still the fastest. Besides, you need to take into account how it takes spins/bounces. Grass is very generous to players with a good slice serve and backhand.

Lunaris
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:04 PM
There is a similar thread in MTF including this article.
"It's much slower, the bounce is much truer, and the subsurface is much harder," says Cliff Drysdale, a singles semifinalist here in 1965 who is now an ESPN commentator. "The ball bounces up, so you can hit it, which did not used to be the case. It's so much more like playing on a hard court now, it's unbelievable. I didn't think it was possible, but they have done it." All the courts are spongier on the surface, which probably makes them slower, although an official statement from the All England Club states: "There has been no intention either this year or in previous years to produce slower courts or ones suited for a particular type of game."

There has been a diligent effort, however, to make the courts sure if not slow, with firmer soil and subsurface that make the ball bounce higher and more reliably. This has been accomplished by marrying the art and science of groundskeeping, as practiced by Eddie Seaward, head groundsman since 1991. Seaward has a staff of 14 and another 14 employed just for The Championships, including fellows from The Sports Turf Research Institute in Yorkshire. (Yorkshire is fittingly the old stomping grounds of the poet Bottomley, born there in 1874.)

"Wimbledon has always striven to provide the players with the best possible grass courts on which to display their considerable talents," said Tim Phillips, Chairman of the All England Club and The Championships. "Just as the game of tennis does not stand still, neither do we, and we continue to prepare our courts using all our experience and the latest technology. Ultimately, we aim to produce the best possible playing surface."

To that end, Wimbledon's courts the past five years have been sown entirely with perennial ryegrass, replacing the mixture of 70 percent rye and 30 percent creeping red fescue that was the norm through 2000. The All England Club would have gone with rye and ginger if that could have guaranteed the durability and "enhanced presentation and performance" it was seeking in the new millennium, but independent research by the experts in Yorkshire confirmed that 100 proof rye was preferable to any blend.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon05/news/story?id=2090997

Lucas_Arg
Jun 8th, 2008, 08:06 PM
Will the roof change something??

Julie2810
Jul 14th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Any one can give me a trusty link that showed Wimbledon have been slower every year, the official website of Wimbledon denied this.

FrOzon
Jul 14th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Calculated from Top 20 Ace list:

AUS Open 2008: 308 aces in 82 matches: 3.8 aces/match
Roland Garros 2008: 264 aces in 71 matches: 3.7 aces/match
Wimbledon 2008: 375 aces in 67 matches: 5.6 aces/match
US Open 2007: 382 aces in 82 matches: 4.0 aces/match

Only Serena, Venus, Sveta, Ana and Nadia (which are in all four Top 20 lists):
AUS Open 2008: 103 aces in 24 matches: 4.3 aces/match
Roland Garros: 86 aces in 23 matches: 3.7 aces/match
Wimbledon 2008: 159 aces in 26 matches: 6.1 aces/match
US Open 2007: 104 aces in 25 matches: 4.2 aces/match

Of course, this doesn't consider how long one match took, but it might be a hint!
(Better if available: Serve winners/Played point)

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 14th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Any one can give me a trusty link that showed Wimbledon have been slower every year, the official website of Wimbledon denied this.

Jason Goodall did this on hawkeye
same speed from 2003 i think it was to this yr and its 20% slower.
ball reached the receiver at 52mph at 126 mph serve speed in 2003
and only 43mph with same speed serve in 2008

Shinjiro
Jul 14th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Any one can give me a trusty link that showed Wimbledon have been slower every year, the official website of Wimbledon denied this.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/tennis/melbourne-slicker-than-wimbledon/2007/12/17/1197740182164.html

SV_Fan
Jul 14th, 2008, 02:49 PM
That is sad though. Its super slow.

hwanmig
Jul 14th, 2008, 03:00 PM
When will people STFU about this slowing hype. If it was soooo slow how come Venus has won it three times since 2005

Shinjiro
Jul 14th, 2008, 03:28 PM
When will people STFU about this slowing hype. If it was soooo slow how come Venus has won it three times since 2005
W being slower than AO and USO doesn't imply it's slow. It basically plays like a medium-paced hardcourt. Anyway, all of this has little relevance to women's tennis (imo)

FrOzon
Jul 14th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Jason Goodall did this on hawkeye
same speed from 2003 i think it was to this yr and its 20% slower.
ball reached the receiver at 52mph at 126 mph serve speed in 2003
and only 43mph with same speed serve in 2008

Was it only "one" measurement? Same weather conditions?
Just one comparison isn't very scientific! ;)

I think, it's slower than 2001 (Ivanisevic) but a Williams final could suggest that it is not too slow(?)