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View Full Version : Is Maria's Ball Toss Too High?


SharapovaFan16
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Now I'm not looking for this thread to turn into some troll hater fest so let's leave that crap at the door right now. I'm asking an honest question and I'd like to get some real answers.

As a fan, tennis player, etc. do you think Maria's ball toss is way too high? Does it lead to erratic serves? Does it make her serve easier to read?

I understand she is tall and generates a lot of power, but it just seems her consistency hinges on the quality of her ball toss. Serena for example has a quick, low ball toss, but she accelerates through tha ball so well generating a lot of power. Since she's been doing it her whole life is it sort of too late to make an adjustment?

Thoughts?

Adal
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Yeah. She certainly needs to work on her toss. The serve motion itself is pretty nice, but the toss is too high and her serve can be damaged buy the wind/sun or any other bad conditions.

SharapovaFan16
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:14 PM
And also I'd like to get some insite from non Maria fans. As a tennis fan, all hate aside what do you honestly think. Pretend her ball toss was your favs, would you wish on her to change it?

InsideOut.
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Yes. Way too high which means a lot of DFs when she is off.

Actually many of the WTA players have no idea how to toss properly.

hayleytrotter
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:17 PM
Well, when i do a high ball toss it is for these reasons:

1. im tall (lol)
2. the ball gets more spin on it as it comes down
3. If you throw it and it isnt high enough, you have to hit it when it is low, which reduces the chances of the serve going in.

however, maria does a high ball toes all the time. it can be a bit dangerous imo. she needs to vary it up - but that can be said about her entire game.

Kipling
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:17 PM
It's inconsistent. Graf had a high toss, but never had big problems. Lendl had a big toss, never had problems. Maria just needs to spend more time putting the ball in the same place when she tosses and she'll be fine. But nobody can rely on a toss that's way out in front one time and behind her the next. That's just not going to work.

Uranium
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:20 PM
in the words of schorsch in WS threads:
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum

Adal
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:21 PM
in the words of schorsch in WS threads:
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
And also I'd like to get some insite from non Maria fans. As a tennis fan, all hate aside what do you honestly think. Pretend her ball toss was your favs, would you wish on her to change it?
:help: :help: :help:

Marshmallow
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:25 PM
in the words of schorsch in WS threads:
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum

:lol: Agreed. But you know why he couldn't post it in the player forums. Vast majority of people there don't know anything about tennis, all that goes on in there is gossip and links to XXX rated Maria pics.

Uranium
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:27 PM
:help: :help: :help:

i don't care if Maria fans wanna come in WS threads and say that, then i'll be just as rude and do the same.:o

Polikarpov
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:28 PM
I think it is too high. It could pose problems for Maria when she is playing tight. Also, when it's very windy or if the sun is directly above her, it could be very hard to hit a good delivery.

However, lowering her ball toss means altering her service action. I don't think she would be doing something that drastic.

Steffi Graf had an equally high if not higher ball toss, but she made it work. I'm sure Maria can do it as well.

I actually think Ivanovic has a worse problem because when she's tense, her ball toss tends to go further on the right (a la Capriati), making her chase for the ball.

hayleytrotter
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:29 PM
:lol: Agreed. But you know why he couldn't post it in the player forums. Vast majority of people there don't know anything about tennis, all that goes on in there is gossip and links to XXX rated Maria pics.

Um, or not?

:help:

Destiny
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:30 PM
:lol:

But really. I really think she needs to work on that. especially now that Wimbledon is coming around . The conditions are going to be unpredictable and she relies on her serve so much for it to be shaky.

She needs advise from someone like Serena who has great serving motion :devil:

Adal
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:30 PM
i don't care if Maria fans wanna come in WS threads and say that, then i'll be just as rude and do the same.:o
This thread wasn't created by that annoying poster who comes in WS threads and says that, right? Then why be so rude to the poster who has nothing to do with and wants a honest opinion about a certain component of tennis?
It's not even Maria-love thread or Maria-hate thread.

Adal
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:37 PM
:lol:

But really. I really think she needs to work on that. especially now that Wimbledon is coming around . The conditions are going to be unpredictable and she relies on her serve so much for it to be shaky.

She needs advise from someone like Serena who has great serving motion :devil:

Ohh I wish she had Serena's serve motion :bigcry:
Or at least get her 2004-early 2005 serve back :(

Mikey.
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:37 PM
What I find when I am serving is that when I throw the ball too high, let it drop some what and hit it after it's peak, it can be difficult to get consistency because the ball is moving as I hit it. I try to toss the ball in the perfect spot, not too high and not too low, so that it peaks at the height to where my normal reach is with my tennis racquet. This helps my serve be more consistent because the ball is in an almost stationary position at the peak of the ball toss, so it isn't moving as I take my swing during the serve. Therefore making it easier for me to consistently hit the serve cleanly.

I'm sure Maria wont be changing her ball toss any time soon since she has used this kind of toss for almost her entire career. Maria has that tendency to let the ball fall some what before hitting it but I'm sure she has a good reason for tossing it so high. Maybe someone here already knows or maybe someone could find out?

Destiny
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Ohh I wish she had Serena's serve motion :bigcry:
Or at least get her 2004-early 2005 serve back :(

The least you could have done was joke it off because i was joking but now you said it yes Maria should wish because at least she didn't have 21 df in one match one after the other with no hint of an improvement:p

i was trying to be postive:rolleyes:

Adal
Jun 7th, 2008, 06:42 PM
The least you could have done was joke it off because i was joking but now you said it yes Maria should wish because at least she didn't have 21 df in one match one after the other with no hint of an improvement:p

i was trying to be postive:rolleyes:
Whatever :rolleyes:

And she made 17 double faults, not 21 :bigcry: I hope she'll never hit that many

Dodoboy.
Jun 7th, 2008, 07:20 PM
What Maria could do with Serena's motion :hearts:

She could reach up to 122+ mph

Her motion is just not elegant, she needs expert timing to be throwing the ball so high, sadly she doesn't have that most of the times.

mboyle
Jun 7th, 2008, 07:26 PM
Ohh I wish she had Serena's serve motion :bigcry:
Or at least get her 2004-early 2005 serve back :(

Her serve was at its best in fall 2006. It was also devastating in Oz this year. It will come back. It always does. Yes she needs to find consistency on her toss. I'd prefer if it were lower, but I have full faith that Maria will be fine.

schorsch
Jun 7th, 2008, 08:33 PM
This is a thread directed at all forum posters as the thread starter wanted unbiased opinions on Maria's ball toss. As for many of the WS threads this isnt the case...

Her ball toss is definately very high which can lead to inconsistency, just like Baghdatis she's got a good natural motion, but sometimes has problems with her ball toss.

The thing what I noticed though is that before hitting a DF she often waits very long before the second serve and thus loses her rhythm and becomes tense. You can tell when she's going to hit a lot just because of that.

Also lately she hasnt got the mixing up right a lot, because when you're struggling with your serve you need to try to have a high percentage of first serves in and sometimes she's just presses too much and then finds herself down breakpoints and spins the first in and when the opp. takes her chance and finds the court she's in big trouble.

So she's definately got to do some work on it, but I think its gonna be fine.

DOUBLEFIST
Jun 7th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Yes.

given the problems she's had over the past couple of years with her serve, ANYTHING that further complicates the motion, is not helpful.

toxina90
Jun 7th, 2008, 08:42 PM
When she gets it going it is brilliant, but the high ball toss disrupts rythm. Aswell as her rituals. If it was shorter I think she would have less problems.

SharapovaFan16
Jun 7th, 2008, 09:01 PM
This is a thread directed at all forum posters as the thread starter wanted unbiased opinions on Maria's ball toss. As for many of the WS threads this isnt the case...

Her ball toss is definately very high which can lead to inconsistency, just like Baghdatis she's got a good natural motion, but sometimes has problems with her ball toss.

The thing what I noticed though is that before hitting a DF she often waits very long before the second serve and thus loses her rhythm and becomes tense. You can tell when she's going to hit a lot just because of that.

Also lately she hasnt got the mixing up right a lot, because when you're struggling with your serve you need to try to have a high percentage of first serves in and sometimes she's just presses too much and then finds herself down breakpoints and spins the first in and when the opp. takes her chance and finds the court she's in big trouble.

So she's definately got to do some work on it, but I think its gonna be fine.

I agree I thought it was very interesting how I could almost predict every DF Maria was going to serve during the French Open. Not sure what I was picking up on, but I just knew. I think it was something about the rhythm and the toss. When she screws up on a toss on her first serve (and has to re-toss) and doesn't get the serve in, she is most likely going to DF on her 2nd serve. Maybe it isn't the height of the toss, but more that she can't consistently toss the ball up straight in the air. I guess the ball toss is one of the more underrated parts of tennis that no one really looks at. If you can't do it properly and consistently it will destroy your serve.

goldenlox
Jun 7th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Her technique isn't perfect. I've heard commentators criticize her serve and forehand, and net play, especially footwork.

LDF
Jun 7th, 2008, 09:46 PM
As a couple of others have noted, the problem isn't that it's too high [that actually helps her complete her longer motion], it's just that it's inconsistent. At RG it was all over the place: in front, to the left, over her head...you name it.

I also noticed that often when she followed through on a fault, her right leg would kick up awkwardly. I'm not sure if that's simply a reaction to a miss, or as a result of not propelling herself into the court [stemming from the bad ball toss], but it happened a lot.

Il Primo!
Jun 7th, 2008, 09:58 PM
She should go back to her 2006 serve IMO. I don't get why she changed it up since it worked greatly back in the days.

Sean.
Jun 7th, 2008, 09:59 PM
As a previous poster mentioned if she throws the ball to high she is hitting it when it is coming down - which is much harder. This might lead to to timing issues and inconsistencies.

And conditons also affect her much more. I think she really needs to speed up between her 1st and seond serve though or use her height to roll her 2nd serve in more.

Emina.
Jun 7th, 2008, 10:23 PM
She should go back to her 2006 serve IMO. I don't get why she changed it up since it worked greatly back in the days.

I agree...I loved her serve back then :cool:

Kipling
Jun 7th, 2008, 10:57 PM
in the words of schorsch in WS threads:
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum
player's forum

I realize it isn't as topical as serena's new trailer, but it actually does have to do with tennis, nimrod.

Melly Flew Us
Jun 7th, 2008, 11:24 PM
the toss is not too high, i am certain that it is the same as it was when she was serving at her best.

what has changed is that she is now starting to throw the ball too far to the right/side.

she better fix it or else she'll end up like dementieva and only be able to slice out wide (to the forehand).

Lunaris
Jun 8th, 2008, 06:47 PM
When the ball toss is as high as Shazza's one it is more affected by the wind and also causes more timing problems.
As someone already suggested in this thread, the ball toss should neither be too high nor too low. It should be high enough so that you could hit the ball at the peak of the toss when it isn't moving, which Shazza definitely doesn't do.

slamchamp
Jun 8th, 2008, 06:56 PM
her technique is fine, the onl problem is the toss..I just don't get it, if she realizes she's not tossing the ball right, she should stop and toss the ball again:shrug:.

bellascarlett
Jun 8th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I realize it isn't as topical as serena's new trailer, but it actually does have to do with tennis, nimrod.

:lol:

Mikey B
Jun 8th, 2008, 07:23 PM
I agree I thought it was very interesting how I could almost predict every DF Maria was going to serve during the French Open. Not sure what I was picking up on, but I just knew. I think it was something about the rhythm and the toss. When she screws up on a toss on her first serve (and has to re-toss) and doesn't get the serve in, she is most likely going to DF on her 2nd serve. Maybe it isn't the height of the toss, but more that she can't consistently toss the ball up straight in the air. I guess the ball toss is one of the more underrated parts of tennis that no one really looks at. If you can't do it properly and consistently it will destroy your serve.

me too! it was strange!! i just knew the point was over... not sure if she took extra long before serving a double or the toss was too way-ward or what. but i'll be checking it out at wimbledon...

she needs to lower her toss and speed up her whole service action, the ball bouncing, hair thing, etc... when she first burst onto the scene her serve was awesome, she had a lower toss and quicker action and it helped her get more cheap points.. go back to the basics maria... coz if she had her serve back consistently this year, not just at melbourne, im not sure she wouldn't have won more than she already has this year...

hankqq
Jun 8th, 2008, 07:41 PM
I think the toss is too high, and as others have said, it gives her problems when she has "off" days. The higher it is, the more likely it will be affected by wind, sun in her eyes and her nerves. She has to wait longer for the ball to drop to her hitting zone, and if any of these factors are present, the ball might not drop precisely to the "zone" she's expecting to hit it at, so she'll have a fault/double fault. With a lower toss, it's easier to control.

That said, she's obviously spent years with this ball toss, and I'm not sure if she would be able to change it easily, since the timing on her service motion would change (it would be faster since she wouldn't have to wait for the ball to drop as much). This would certainly take some getting used to, and I'm not sure if she'd be willing to do that.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if her ball toss led to her bursitis. If she had a lot of matches where she had to "chase" the ball or made contact with the ball when it wasn't precisely in a comfortable hitting zone, that can mess up her shoulder.