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View Full Version : And I taught Ivanovic and Jankovic were Serbian names for WOMEN....


ZeroSOFInfinity
May 31st, 2008, 04:02 PM
At the moment, I am watching the football match between Serbia and Germany... and what do you know, there are two guys by the name of... wait for it... IVANOVIC and JANKOVIC!

Wow, this is weird... first time I heard such a thing! :lol::lol::lol:

RenaSlam.
May 31st, 2008, 04:04 PM
:worship:

mure
May 31st, 2008, 04:06 PM
ivanoviceva :angel:

sounds even better

ElusiveChanteuse
May 31st, 2008, 04:07 PM
Well,maybe just like Chinese where the surnames are the same for both man and woman.
It isn't like Russia where you usually get a -ova for woman while -ov for man.
Maybe there's even girl whose name is XXXXXX Djokovic?:tape:

Andreas
May 31st, 2008, 04:10 PM
And I bet Jankovic is the captain. :angel:
Nah, but he scored the goal for 0-1 ;)

дalex
May 31st, 2008, 04:13 PM
Is this thread for real? I can't tell...:rolls:

Slutati
May 31st, 2008, 04:13 PM
Hello, Djoković:lol:

hankqq
May 31st, 2008, 04:14 PM
Serbian, Croatian etc. names don't follow the same patterns as Russian names...

Mikey.
May 31st, 2008, 04:15 PM
I taught I taw a puddy tat.

Tennis90
May 31st, 2008, 04:15 PM
Loooool...what a thread....heh
of course their surnames,serbian surnames are the same for men and women....what did you think?

DownTheLine21
May 31st, 2008, 04:31 PM
LOL! Why are people taking the threadstarter seriously? This is obviously a joke.

StZox
May 31st, 2008, 04:36 PM
Bosko Jankovic even scored a goal.

delicatecutter
May 31st, 2008, 04:41 PM
Are you serious? Most languages don't change surnames to divulge the gender of a person.

ZeroSOFInfinity
May 31st, 2008, 04:45 PM
LOL! Why are people taking the threadstarter seriously? This is obviously a joke.

Joke? :lol::lol::lol:

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/football/international-friendlies/2007-2008/germany-serbia-235417.html

:p:p:p

Craigy
May 31st, 2008, 04:47 PM
I taught I taw a puddy tat.

:spit:

Filippo-Nastya
May 31st, 2008, 04:52 PM
I knew Jankovic because he played last season at Palermo while I had never heard Ivanovic before.

DAVAJ MKirilenko
May 31st, 2008, 04:57 PM
Vidic is playing as well in this match.
And he's married to.......... Ana Ivanovic :lol:

Also funny is that Ivanovic is a defender and Jankovic attacker. ;)

ZeroSOFInfinity
May 31st, 2008, 05:00 PM
Vidic is playing as well in this match.
And he's married to.......... Ana Ivanovic :lol:

Also funny is that Ivanovic is a defender and Jankovic attacker. ;)

Oh the irony :lol::lol::lol:

DAVAJ MKirilenko
May 31st, 2008, 05:01 PM
Oh the irony :lol::lol::lol:

It's too funny that it must be a joke, but weird enough it's true.
Like they have only a few surnames in Serbia.

Aloimeh
May 31st, 2008, 05:20 PM
Ridiculous thread.

Serbian names generally do not follow the name conventions of Russian, Polish, Czech, and even Bulgarian names, because the names typically end in "-ic." Russian, Polish, Czech, and Bulgarian names are typically adjectival, so they are modified by gender. The "_____-ic" of Serbian and Croatian names merely means "son of _____," so Jankovic means "son of Janko." Slovenian names typically also do not change by gender.

If a Serbian surname does NOT end in "-ic" there are rare cases where it may differ between men and women. For instance, there's a Serbian male tennis player called Bozoljac. Names ending in "-ac" do not change between men and women. On the other hand, there's also two Serbian male tennis players by the names of Pasanski and Troicki. Strictly speaking, these names SHOULD change to Pasanska and Troicka for a woman. Also, such Serbian names are rare in central Serbia and are more common in peripheral regions, such as northern or deep southern Serbia and amongst Serbs from the territory of Bosnia and Croatia.

The Daviator
May 31st, 2008, 05:29 PM
Ivanovic has a yellow card :devil:

cocco80
May 31st, 2008, 05:43 PM
Ridiculous thread.

Serbian names generally do not follow the name conventions of Russian, Polish, Czech, and even Bulgarian names, because the names typically end in "-ic." Russian, Polish, Czech, and Bulgarian names are typically adjectival, so they are modified by gender. The "_____-ic" of Serbian and Croatian names merely means "son of _____," so Jankovic means "son of Janko." Slovenian names typically also do not change by gender.

If a Serbian surname does NOT end in "-ic" there are rare cases where it may differ between men and women. For instance, there's a Serbian male tennis player called Bozoljac. Names ending in "-ac" do not change between men and women. On the other hand, there's also two Serbian male tennis players by the names of Pasanski and Troicki. Strictly speaking, these names SHOULD change to Pasanska and Troicka for a woman. Also, such Serbian names are rare in central Serbia and are more common in peripheral regions, such as northern or deep southern Serbia and amongst Serbs from the territory of Bosnia and Croatia.

But they don't change. It would be Ana Pashanski, not Ana Pashanska. Macedonian surnames, however differ between women and men and it would be Pashanska for a woman and Pashanski for a man.

Slutiana
May 31st, 2008, 05:48 PM
LOL! Why are people taking the threadstarter seriously? This is obviously a joke.
I dno if it is the same person but a guy called Ivanovic plays for Chelsea CFC. I think he's a goalkeeper...

Also, there is a guy who plays for like charlton (or some team in the premiership) and he is called Jie Zheng. Yes, Same farst name as well... Now that's weird. :lol:

SOA_MC
May 31st, 2008, 05:52 PM
Ivanovic has a yellow card :devil:

Ivanovic got over excited I guess:shrug:

Backhand_stille
May 31st, 2008, 05:55 PM
But they don't change. It would be Ana Pashanski, not Ana Pashanska. Macedonian surnames, however differ between women and men and it would be Pashanska for a woman and Pashanski for a man.
Exemple: BEst serbian junior player is Bojana Jovanovski not Jovanovska!! :D SERBO-CROATIAN(ex SFRJ) surnames are the best!!

cocco80
May 31st, 2008, 05:56 PM
Ivanovic got over excited I guess:shrug:

excitment is in their blood. :p

cocco80
May 31st, 2008, 05:57 PM
Exemple: BEst serbian junior player is Bojana Jovanovski not Jovanovska!! :D SERBO-CROATIAN(ex SFRJ) surnames are the best!!

exactly!

InsideOut.
May 31st, 2008, 06:04 PM
I dno if it is the same person but a guy called Ivanovic plays for Chelsea CFC. I think he's a goalkeeper...

Also, there is a guy who plays for like charlton (or some team in the premiership) and he is called Jie Zheng. Yes, Same farst name as well... Now that's weird. :lol:

No, actually that is not weird. You must understand that these English translations of Chinese names are only the sounds. In Chinese, "jie" (with different accents) is the sound of many different characters. Plus, each character can have multiple meanings. (I know it's confusing.) It can mean 'fast'(I guess this is the one for the guy), 'clean' (this is the one for Little Jie), 'street', 'elder sister', 'eyelashes' etc. etc. etc....

Just Do It
May 31st, 2008, 06:04 PM
My best male friends surname is Ivanovic.

Backhand_stille
May 31st, 2008, 06:08 PM
I know many male persons who have Jankovic or Ivanovic surname!! Jankovic, Ivanovic, Petrovic, Jovanovic are the most popular surnames in Serbia...

cocco80
May 31st, 2008, 06:21 PM
I know many male persons who have Jankovic or Ivanovic surname!! Jankovic, Ivanovic, Petrovic, Jovanovic are the most popular surnames in Serbia...

you mean 'common'? we don't get to choose our surnames :lol:

Backhand_stille
May 31st, 2008, 06:55 PM
yes... mean that!! my english isn't perfect :D

Slutati
May 31st, 2008, 06:58 PM
I know many male persons who have Jankovic or Ivanovic surname!! Jankovic, Ivanovic, Petrovic, Jovanovic are the most popular surnames in Serbia...
Kovačević is very popular as well:ras::p

Backhand_stille
May 31st, 2008, 07:02 PM
Kovacz in Hungary, Kovacevic in Serbia!! :D :P

Malva
May 31st, 2008, 07:08 PM
At the moment, I am watching the football match between Serbia and Germany... and what do you know, there are two guys by the name of... wait for it... IVANOVIC and JANKOVIC!

Wow, this is weird... first time I heard such a thing! :lol::lol::lol:



Well,maybe just like Chinese where the surnames are the same for both man and woman.
It isn't like Russia where you usually get a -ova for woman while -ov for man.
Maybe there's even girl whose name is XXXXXX Djokovic?:tape:

Some surnames have the same form for both genders, some don't. Your bringing in Russian here is irrelevant, since the surname endings -ov(a) follow a different pattern.


Serbian, Croatian etc. names don't follow the same patterns as Russian names...

That's true only to some extent but is not relevant for the question raised in this thread.

Surnames ending in -ich (in Russian spelling -ич, Polish spelling -icz, Serbo-Croat spelling -ić, etc.) exhibit an ancient pattern common to majority of Slavic languages; this pattern has generally the same form for both genders.

In some Slavic languages surnames with this pattern are more common, in other less so. They are very common in Serbo-Croat, common in Polish and Belarusian, not very common in Russian (and actually often indicating Polish/Belarusian/Lithuanian origins of the person bearing such name).

HenryMag.
May 31st, 2008, 07:34 PM
Yes .... he was squeaking his studs while the German was preparing to take a penalty kick. :devil:

:spit:

Ksenia.
May 31st, 2008, 07:37 PM
I see nothing wrong with this? :confused:

Aloimeh
May 31st, 2008, 10:11 PM
exactly!

My father knew a woman from Vojvodina whose surname was Urmanska whereas her husband's was Urmanski (he was Serb). So it does exist.

Slumpsova
May 31st, 2008, 10:12 PM
i think a girl named Ana Ivanovic married a Serb footballer.

Il Primo!
May 31st, 2008, 10:17 PM
At the moment, I am watching the football match between Serbia and Germany... and what do you know, there are two guys by the name of... wait for it... IVANOVIC and JANKOVIC!

Wow, this is weird... first time I heard such a thing! :lol::lol::lol:

:unsure:

No comment.

Ksenia.
May 31st, 2008, 10:18 PM
My father knew a woman from Vojvodina whose surname was Urmanska whereas her husband's was Urmanski (he was Serb). So it does exist.I think this is a Polish last name or something like that :confused:

Aloimeh
May 31st, 2008, 10:19 PM
Some surnames have the same form for both genders, some don't. Your bringing in Russian here is irrelevant, since the surname endings -ov(a) follow a different pattern.




That's true only to some extent but is not relevant for the question raised in this thread.

Surnames ending in -ich (in Russian spelling -ич, Polish spelling -icz, Serbo-Croat spelling -ić, etc.) exhibit an ancient pattern common to majority of Slavic languages; this pattern has generally the same form for both genders.

In some Slavic languages surnames with this pattern are more common, in other less so. They are very common in Serbo-Croat, common in Polish and Belarusian, not very common in Russian (and actually often indicating Polish/Belarusian/Lithuanian origins of the person bearing such name).

It also fell out of Bulgarian, Czech, and Slovak. It is dominant in Serbo-Croat names, and occurs in Polish, Belarussian, and Slovenian names, but at lesser frequency. It survives in Russian as patronymics - e.g. if your father was called Arkady, your "middle name"/patronymic is Arkadyevitch for a male or Arkadyevna for a female. It also survived in certain German names (e.g. the town of Chemnitz) and in certain Czech names, e.g. the famous Czech noble house of Lobkowitz - Joseph Lobkowitz was Beethoven's main patron.

Malva
May 31st, 2008, 11:45 PM
It also fell out of Bulgarian, Czech, and Slovak. It is dominant in Serbo-Croat names, and occurs in Polish, Belarussian, and Slovenian names, but at lesser frequency. It survives in Russian as patronymics - e.g. if your father was called Arkady, your "middle name"/patronymic is Arkadyevitch for a male or Arkadyevna for a female. It also survived in certain German names (e.g. the town of Chemnitz) and in certain Czech names, e.g. the famous Czech noble house of Lobkowitz - Joseph Lobkowitz was Beethoven's main patron.

Thank you for your welcome comments, Aloimeh. The surnames we are discussing here are generally all patronymic in origin.

One can add that the original proto-Slavic formant was -itjь. It ceased to be productive in Western Slavic languages quite some time ago (and was replaced by the patronymic formants -ik, -ek, -ak). This explains the disappearance of patronymic names of this pattern from Czech and Slovak.

Original Polish patronymic names ended by the way in -ic or -owic, and were still relatively frequent in some parts of Poland in 16th Century. Beginning from 15th Century patronymic endings -icz, -owicz, -ewicz spread under the influence of Eastern Slavic.

In Russian, of course, the patronymic retained its original function which explains why it is only infrequently encountered as a surname.

Wilson_07
May 31st, 2008, 11:49 PM
my mother also has the exact same surname as i have...have fun laughing about it :shrug:

Malva
May 31st, 2008, 11:51 PM
my mother also has the exact same surname as i have...have fun laughing about it :shrug:

What's so unusual about it?

Slumpsova
May 31st, 2008, 11:51 PM
my mother also has the exact same surname as i have...have fun laughing about it :shrug:
that doesn't make sense :shrug:

Just Do It
May 31st, 2008, 11:53 PM
My father knew a woman from Vojvodina whose surname was Urmanska whereas her husband's was Urmanski (he was Serb). So it does exist.

I am from Vojvoina :banana: Surnames here sometimes finish with "IN" ( like mine :angel: ) but still mostly with "IC"

Urmanska ? That must be Slovakian or Russinian.

Wilson_07
May 31st, 2008, 11:54 PM
that doesn't make sense :shrug:
why? :shrug: some people oviously find it very funny that male athletes have the same surnames as ana and jelena

Malva
May 31st, 2008, 11:57 PM
why? :shrug: some people oviously find it very funny that male athletes have the same surnames as ana and jelena

I am afraid only very ignorant people since, as was explained above, this type of name has the same form irrespective of gender.

Wilson_07
May 31st, 2008, 11:59 PM
I am afraid only very ignorant people since, as was explained above, this type of name has the same form irrespective of gender.

right. so now another post doesn't make sense :p for a lot of countries it's just nothing special to have the same surname regardless of which gender they are

Slumpsova
Jun 1st, 2008, 12:07 AM
I am from Vojvoina :banana: Surnames here sometimes finish with "IN" ( like mine :angel: ) but still mostly with "IC"

Urmanska ? That must be Slovakian or Russinian.
you are a Russian refuge. let's face :p

wild.river
Jun 1st, 2008, 04:07 AM
there's a girl is my history class named svetlana kuznetsova and in my calculus class named jie zheng. :D:D

tennisbear7
Jun 1st, 2008, 04:17 AM
My Macedonian friend's last name is Mirceska. (She's a girl).

her brother's last name is Mirceski. :lol:

Polikarpov
Jun 1st, 2008, 06:31 AM
I entered this thread thinking WTH! But, it turned out to be very educational in the end.

agaradwanska
Jun 1st, 2008, 11:35 AM
LOL! Why are people taking the threadstarter seriously? This is obviously a joke.

no it's not, im suprised this thread only started few days ago and not last year during the -21 Euro 2007 . I remember both players from there semi vs Belgium and final vs Holland.

Both football players also meet the 'Real ones' lol in Rosmalen together with the rest of there team.

In the 80's there already was a great player with the name Jankovic from Anderlecht

austennis
Jun 1st, 2008, 11:54 AM
LOL! Why are people taking the threadstarter seriously? This is obviously a joke.
if its a joke it sucks..im sorry but not funny

Malva
Jun 1st, 2008, 12:46 PM
My Macedonian friend's last name is Mirceska. (She's a girl).

her brother's last name is Mirceski. :lol:

That's normal: unlike say Ivanović this name is an adjective and adjectives in Slavic languages have different forms depending on gender.

Nik33
Jun 1st, 2008, 03:35 PM
Ridiculous thread.
On the other hand, there's also two Serbian male tennis players by the names of Pasanski and Troicki. Strictly speaking, these names SHOULD change to Pasanska and Troicka for a woman. Also, such Serbian names are rare in central Serbia and are more common in peripheral regions, such as northern or deep southern Serbia and amongst Serbs from the territory of Bosnia and Croatia.

Viktor Troicki is of Russian descent. His paternal grandparents emigrated from Tver to Serbia in 1917(October Revolution).
Troicki is not Serbian surname. His family, now, after several genarations consider them self's as Serbians. In that kind of families some of that stick to one surname for man and woman, and some of them don't.

Northern part of Serbia(Vojvodina) has a lot of nations (20+). Most of them are the nations that were under Austro-Hungarian Empire. Some of them stick to their origin and they have difrent names for man and woman, and others, mostly the ones who moved to some other region of Serbia decided to have one name for both genders(because Serbian, after several genarations (away from their community in Vojvodina) is their mother tongue, and they consider them self as Serbians.

In southern Serbia surname like that are originally Bulgarian or Macedonian. For them there is same story, some of them have one surname for both genders and some of them don't(depending how they decided).
If the live in Belgrade and not anymore in southern Serbia, they will probably have one surname for both genders.

In Bosnia and Croatia there is not that kind of surnames in any significant number.

Aloimeh
Jun 1st, 2008, 09:30 PM
Viktor Troicki is of Russian descent. His paternal grandparents emigrated from Tver to Serbia in 1917(October Revolution).
Troicki is not Serbian surname. His family, now, after several genarations consider them self's as Serbians. In that kind of families some of that stick to one surname for man and woman, and some of them don't.

Northern part of Serbia(Vojvodina) has a lot of nations (20+). Most of them are the nations that were under Austro-Hungarian Empire. Some of them stick to their origin and they have difrent names for man and woman, and others, mostly the ones who moved to some other region of Serbia decided to have one name for both genders(because Serbian, after several genarations (away from their community in Vojvodina) is their mother tongue, and they consider them self as Serbians.

In southern Serbia surname like that are originally Bulgarian or Macedonian. For them there is same story, some of them have one surname for both genders and some of them don't(depending how they decided).
If the live in Belgrade and not anymore in southern Serbia, they will probably have one surname for both genders.

In Bosnia and Croatia there is not that kind of surnames in any significant number.

Yes, my point was that there are proportionately more non-"ic" names in Bosnia, Croatia, and northern Serbia/Vojvodina amongst Serbs. Surnames like Tesla, Crnjanski, Pupin, Poplasen, Princip, Dodik, Kusturica (originally Emir, of course, but now Nemanja), which are non-"ic" ending are much more commonly seen in Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia and Vojvodina than in Serbia south of the Danube. Some of these names are adjectival and SHOULD be modified by gender (e.g. Poplasena, Crnjanska, etc.)

Malva
Jun 2nd, 2008, 12:52 AM
Ridiculous thread.

Serbian names generally do not follow the name conventions of Russian, Polish, Czech, and even Bulgarian names, because the names typically end in "-ic." Russian, Polish, Czech, and Bulgarian names are typically adjectival, so they are modified by gender.



Aloimeh, only now I noticed your first post in this thread. I agree, this thread is really embarracing.

You seem to be very well informed about the distribution of Serbian names. I can add, and perhaps also correct, that names ending in -cz, the ending corresponding to Serbo-Croat -ć are in fact very common in Poland, Belarus, and in Lithuania (except that in Lithuanian the ending is augmented by the Nominative case suffix).

Also, it would be an overstatement to say that Western and Eastern Slavic surnames are typically adjectival.

Non-adjectival surnames are very common in Poland for example. More than that, non-adjectival names in Polish often have distinct gender forms, like in Czech or Slovak. A wife of, say, Mr. Czubak is often addressed as Mrs. Czubakowa. A daughter of Mr. Górka is often addressed Miss Górkówna and his wife, Mrs. Górkowa. In official documents, however, such gender forms have been discouraged by communist authorities. On the other hand, before 1939 they were commonly employed. Today they are still employed but rarely in official documents.

Aloimeh
Jun 2nd, 2008, 02:12 AM
Aloimeh, only now I noticed your first post in this thread. I agree, this thread is really embarracing.

You seem to be very well informed about the distribution of Serbian names. I can add, and perhaps also correct, that names ending in -cz, the ending corresponding to Serbo-Croat -ć are in fact very common in Poland, Belarus, and in Lithuania (except that in Lithuanian the ending is augmented by the Nominative case suffix).

Also, it would be an overstatement to say that Western and Eastern Slavic surnames are typically adjectival.

Non-adjectival surnames are very common in Poland for example. More than that, non-adjectival names in Polish often have distinct gender forms, like in Czech or Slovak. A wife of, say, Mr. Czubak is often addressed as Mrs. Czubakowa. A daughter of Mr. Górka is often addressed Miss Górkówna and his wife, Mrs. Górkowa. In official documents, however, such gender forms have been discouraged by communist authorities. On the other hand, before 1939 they were commonly employed. Today they are still employed but rarely in official documents.

Are you a Slavic linguistics student or something? You know so much about this topic!