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*JR*
May 7th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Posted on Wed, May. 7, 2008
(Police Chief) Ramsey: Police beating 'certainly does not look good'

By WENDY RUDERMAN
Philadelphia Daily News

POLICE COMMISSIONER Charles H. Ramsey yesterday asked Philadelphians not "to rush to judgment" when watching a video showing baton-wielding cops repeatedly striking, kicking and stomping three young men whom they had stopped after a triple shooting in Hunting Park.

"On the surface, it certainly does not look good in terms of the amount of force that was used," Ramsey said during a news conference with Mayor Nutter at police headquarters.

Ramsey said that an Internal Affairs investigation is under way. He expressed concern for the mental well-being of the entire force, which is still reeling in the wake of Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski's slaying last weekend.

Ramsey said officers are on edge, upset and tired from an exhaustive, round-the-clock police manhunt for Eric DeShawn Floyd, the only suspect still being sought in Liczbinski's murder.

D. Scott Perrine, a defense attorney representing the three men, said the commissioner seemed to be making excuses for "barbaric" police behavior.

"[Ramsey] implores Philadelphians to take sympathy on behalf of police officers who engaged in behavior that is indicative of guerrilla-warfare tactics that we would see in Iraq before we liberated that country," Perrine said last night.

On Monday night, a Fox 29 news helicopter hovered overhead as police pulled over a car driven by Brian Hall, 23, on 2nd Street near Lippincott in Hunting Park. The video shows officers yanking Hall and two passengers, Dwayne "Lionel" Dyches, 24, and Pete Hopkins, 19, out of the car.

More than a dozen officers begin to kick and hit the men as they lay on the ground. An officer grips the leash of a riled-up police dog, which circles the suspects, the video shows.

The images are reminiscent of two other police beatings caught on TV news video: A 2005 video showing narcotics Officer Michael Collins striking citizen Charles Baum eight times, and a 2000 incident showing 14 city officers beating carjacker Thomas Jones.

Ramsey said that the latest incident occurred after a team of narcotics officers with the 25th Police District in North Philadelphia witnessed a triple shooting during a drug surveillance at 4th and Ansberry streets. The officers were hoping to arrest drug suspects and question them about the slaying of Andrew Coach on Sunday, Ramsey said.

Police watched as four men got out of a gold Mercury Grand Marquis and walked to the corner. One of them then fired upon three other men standing on the corner. The man who fired took off running and his three companions got back in the Grand Marquis and drove off, with police in pursuit, Ramsey said. That's when police pulled over Hall, Dyches and Hopkins, Ramsey said.

In answering to the video yesterday, Ramsey and Nutter found themselves in a delicate spot. They seemed to walk a fine line between expressing support for the city's men and women in blue in the wake of Liczbinski's murder and expressing dismay over a video that depicts an undeniably violent police encounter.

"The video is the video," Nutter said. "We have no audio. You don't know what was going on at that moment when the officers approached the vehicle. There will be an investigation and we will move on."

Nutter added: "This is very dangerous work. We had an officer assassinated on Saturday. . . . Everyone has to understand that this entire city has been affected."

Ramsey said that officers are expected to conduct themselves professionally, but that the department is going through a "difficult period of time," mentioning that Liczbinski's funeral on Friday "looms over our heads."

"We have officers across the city that feel the impact of the murder of Sergeant Liczbinski," Ramsey said. "[But] we don't lower our standards simply because of the emotional state we're all in right now."

Parents of the three men - all from North Philly - expressed outrage yesterday. They said that their sons were on their way back home after attending a prayer vigil for their friend, Andrew Coach, who was killed Sunday.

"Nobody deserves to be beat like that," said Leomia Dyches, mother of Dwayne Dyches, through streaming tears. "If you do an animal like that, they'll throw you in jail for treating a pit bull like that, so how can Philadelphia police call themselves officers and treat another human being like this?" Dyches has had previous brushes with the law, including two arrests for drug possession, criminal records show.

Pete Hopkins is facing a pending criminal charge of criminal trespass. He has a juvenile conviction for drug delivery and weapons offenses, records show. The driver of the car, Brian Hall, has no criminal record. Perrine said that the previous criminal charges against his clients are irrelevant.

"That frankly has nothing to do - nor does it ever justify - being grabbed out of your car and beaten the way they were beaten," he said. Lisa Hall, Brian Hall's mother, said she cried and screamed when she saw the video yesterday on the news. The video shows her son lying still on the ground, apparently unconscious, as the officers kick him.

"You just beating them like they are a piece of meat," she said during an interview at her sister's North Philly house. Hall's sister Johnnie Mae Doe said she doesn't believe that her nephew was involved in a triple shooting.

"Brian is not like that," she said. "I guess anything is possible, but I know what we instilled in Brian, and I know Brian has morals. There are three sides to every story - there's your side, their side, and then there's the truth."

Police said that they believe that the triple shooting may have been retribution for the slaying of Coach. The fourth man, who police said fired at the three men on the corner, is still at large. Police did not have a name or description of the suspect last night.

The three shooting victims are recovering from their gunshot wounds, police said. Perrine said that the story detailed by Ramsey is riddled with inconsistencies and questions. "[Ramsey's] diatribe is absent of concrete facts," Perrine said.

Dyches, Hopkins and Hall have been charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault, weapons possession and criminal conspiracy. Bail was set at $300,000 for Hall and $1 million for Hopkins. Dyches' bail hearing was delayed last night when police at the 25th District apparently took him back to the hospital after he complained of back pain, Perrine said.

b_o_r
May 7th, 2008, 10:10 PM
I hate to compare television to reality, but that looked like a scene straight out of the first season of the Wire. :o The cops pretty much had a free-for-all. There is no way you can justify that behavior with the slaying of a cop who was responding to an Armed robbery in a different section of the city.

On another note, and probably not a popular opinion, but the city needs to re-train these cops on tactics. Officer Cassidy was killed when he walked into a Dunkin Donuts that was being held up. How do you not see that the store is being held up? And now the lastest police shooting, the officer who responded seemed to have been in the direct view of the gunman. Aren't you supposed to "case" the place and wait for back up?

Wannabeknowitall
May 7th, 2008, 10:42 PM
I hate to compare television to reality, but that looked like a scene straight out of the first season of the Wire. :o The cops pretty much had a free-for-all. There is no way you can justify that behavior with the slaying of a cop who was responding to an Armed robbery in a different section of the city.

On another note, and probably not a popular opinion, but the city needs to re-train these cops on tactics. Officer Cassidy was killed when he walked into a Dunkin Donuts that was being held up. How do you not see that the store is being held up? And now the lastest police shooting, the officer who responded seemed to have been in the direct view of the gunman. Aren't you supposed to "case" the place and wait for back up?

I'm tired of black men get killed or beat up by Philadelphia police and then I'm suppose to have sympathy for the police officers who got killed.
One of these killings happened just a block away from me.

I told people when Michael Nutter won for the democrats last summer that he could win this city again in 4 years if he just makes sure that his district stays safe and the NE as well.
And it seems he's doing exactly that.
These men aren't ashame of what they did, they're probably mad that they didn't do it in a secluded area under some highway underpass.

I don't know if Officer Cassidy needed to be re-trained.
He could have survived if he had some street smarts.
There's 3 Dunkin Donuts in an 8 block area on Broad St.
One is a half block away from the police station. He didn't pick that one.

One is a half block from the hospital and there's always police activity. He didn't pick that one.
He picked the one secluded, right next to a big storage area and a convent and highway 611.

ptkten
May 7th, 2008, 10:53 PM
It was certainly troubling; Nutter could lose the support of the black community if he doesn't respond appropriately.
I understand there's some anger and tension after one of your own gets killed but you can't take it out on someone that had nothing to do with the cop's murder.

Wannabeknowitall
May 7th, 2008, 11:14 PM
It was certainly troubling; Nutter could lose the support of the black community if he doesn't respond appropriately.
I understand there's some anger and tension after one of your own gets killed but you can't take it out on someone that had nothing to do with the cop's murder.

He never really had it in the first place.
The democratic race in Philly was 6 ways.
A lot of his policies were clearly unconstitutional.

Random car searches?
Like I'm going to advocate that?
You know these random car searches are going to be in black areas only and not to mention the racial profiling that would be involved.
And this is one of those random searches gone very wrong.

b_o_r
May 8th, 2008, 12:30 AM
It was certainly troubling; Nutter could lose the support of the black community if he doesn't respond appropriately.
I understand there's some anger and tension after one of your own gets killed but you can't take it out on someone that had nothing to do with the cop's murder.
He pretty much stated, There will be an investigation and we will move on.

Sir Stefwhit
May 8th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Where's the video?

*JR*
May 8th, 2008, 01:40 AM
Where's the video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2myV0b9LE7I

Direwolf
May 8th, 2008, 02:38 AM
WTF 6 on 1 and the guy was lying on the ground...
thats worst than a gang fight..

and they were being pulled around by their lower extremities..

Direwolf
May 8th, 2008, 02:42 AM
atleast there was 1 police officer who tried to stop them from beating them further

Cam'ron Giles
May 8th, 2008, 03:24 AM
I cant even watch this shit...It's just sad...God help us all...:sad:

woosey
May 8th, 2008, 04:51 AM
i guess that's why not many black men signed up when the police chief called on black men in the community to help the police department.

RVD
May 8th, 2008, 05:55 AM
I just have one question (because by now everyone knows damn well how I feel about ALL cops)...


Why don't officers all over the country (not just in Philly or Oakland, or L.A., or New York) just arrest a brutha if they suspect him of committing a crime.
Just handcuff a suspect if your dumb azz is too scared of a Black man!!
At least at that point they can't say that these INNOCENT BLACK MEN are "...trying to grab my leg...", "...trying to run away...", "...he leaped at me..."...

Why do cops have to beat ONLY THE BLACK MEN?!
And it doesn't even matter what color the officers are.
Even the Black cops lose their freak'n minds when around White cops making arrests. *SMH*

This Philly incident is just a travesty.
I have no sympathy for these cop bastards.

Furthermore, of course cops are gonna find themselves in life or death situations. DUH!!
It's part of the job they signed on to perform. Jeez!!
If they weren't so damn crooked, shady, lying SOBs, then people would have more sympathy and understanding.
So SICK of hearing about only Black men getting the shit beat out of them and nothing happening to these crooked, sadistic cops. :mad: :fiery:

*JR*
May 8th, 2008, 12:14 PM
I don't understand how (since you can obviously hear a chopper hovering ovahead) they didn't seem to think "Uh oh, maybe this is all being taped". (Guess its an adrenaline rush).
:confused:

Wannabeknowitall
May 8th, 2008, 12:22 PM
i guess that's why not many black men signed up when the police chief called on black men in the community to help the police department.

Actually that was the former police chief and many people didn't do it because they saw right thru the former Mayor John Street's scheme in his last few months of office.
He just wanted to say he did something in his second term when he didn't do a damn thing.

b_o_r
May 8th, 2008, 12:27 PM
I just have one question (because by now everyone knows damn well how I feel about ALL cops)...


Why don't officers all over the country (not just in Philly or Oakland, or L.A., or New York) just arrest a brutha if they suspect him of committing a crime.
Just handcuff a suspect if your dumb azz is too scared of a Black man!!
At least at that point they can't say that these INNOCENT BLACK MEN are "...trying to grab my leg...", "...trying to run away...", "...he leaped at me..."...

Why do cops have to beat ONLY THE BLACK MEN?!
And it doesn't even matter what color the officers are.
Even the Black cops lose their freak'n minds when around White cops making arrests. *SMH*

This Philly incident is just a travesty.
I have no sympathy for these cop bastards.

Furthermore, of course cops are gonna find themselves in life or death situations. DUH!!
It's part of the job they signed on to perform. Jeez!!
If they weren't so damn crooked, shady, lying SOBs, then people would have more sympathy and understanding.
So SICK of hearing about only Black men getting the shit beat out of them and nothing happening to these crooked, sadistic cops. :mad: :fiery:
Recently, their have been a few incidents where poor whites were beaten by the cops, one was a white female who was beaten quite viciously, but that was kept on the low.

Did you read the transcript from the arrest of Cedric Benson, Chicago Bears runningback. The cop pretty much told on himself that the situation became hostile because the officer felt that since Cedric Benson was quite muscular hence he could overpower him, he preceeded to handcuff and mace him. :tape: Officer, you are the one with weapons not him.

Wannabeknowitall
May 8th, 2008, 12:29 PM
I don't understand how (since you can obviously hear a chopper hovering ovahead) they didn't seem to think "Uh oh, maybe this is all being taped". (Guess its an adrenaline rush).
:confused:

They probably assumed it was one of their choppers.
In philly if you hear choppers moving, it's a sign to stay in the fucking house.

One of my neighbors didn't get that hint, did some investigating.
That spotlight got right on him and the police told him to put his hands up.
He almost peed his pants.

*JR*
May 8th, 2008, 03:32 PM
They probably assumed it was one of their choppers.
In philly if you hear choppers moving, it's a sign to stay in the fucking house.

One of my neighbors didn't get that hint, did some investigating.
That spotlight got right on him and the police told him to put his hands up.
He almost peed his pants.
Cops do get nailed by police video sometimes. (Though who knows how many times a tape has been deliberately erased). One on TV showed a highway patrol guy caught for whatever by the camera running on his own dashboard! :help:

Anyhow, they'll get the message in Philly now I guess. Its not like when the late Mayor (and former Police Chief) Frank Rizzo said when elected in 1971: I'm gonna make Attila the Hun look like a ******. :tape:

And I wonder if Sharpton (who BTW got busted yesterday in an NYC protest about the acquittals in the police shooting of the bridegroom; I still firmly predict Federal convictions in that case, ala Rodney King) will come to Philly to hold a protest march.

RVD
May 8th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Recently, their have been a few incidents where poor whites were beaten by the cops, one was a white female who was beaten quite viciously, but that was kept on the low.Happens here too, but very very very rarely. I mean the cop has to r-e-a-l-l-y feel exceedingly threatened before even considering hitting a White suspect. Know what I mean? Or have just finish eating a bad donut.
Did you read the transcript from the arrest of Cedric Benson, Chicago Bears runningback. The cop pretty much told on himself that the situation became hostile because the officer felt that since Cedric Benson was quite muscular hence he could overpower him, he preceeded to handcuff and mace him. :tape: Officer, you are the one with weapons not him.Didn't read the transcripts, but then again maybe that's a good thing. :lol:

I had this one particular friend who became a cop (and then resigned from the force) who imparted some choice info on the psyche of an officer that I'll always remember. Apparently, many become officers for a particular reason...
Let's just say that it's not to serve and protect.
Strangely enough, many of these current officers are ex-military. :scared:
That tells me all I really need to know.