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Wiggly
May 4th, 2008, 12:47 AM
Filly Eight Belles breaks down after finish

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - The filly Eight Belles finished second behind favorite Big Brown in the Kentucky Derby on Saturday, then collapsed with two broken front ankles and was euthanized after crossing the wire.


The field of 20 horses was galloping out around the first turn at Churchill Downs when Eight Belles suddenly went down on both front legs and jockey Gabriel Saez slid off.

"When we passed the wire I stood up," said Saez, a first-time Derby rider. "She started galloping funny. I tried to pull her up. That's when she went down."

An equine ambulance reached her on the track and put down the filly.

"There was no possible way to save her," on-call veterinarian Dr. Larry Bramlage said. "She broke both front ankles. That's a bad injury."

Trainer Larry Jones and owner Rick Porter decided to run Eight Belles against the boys in America's greatest race despite her never having done so before. She also was entered in Friday's Kentucky Oaks for fillies, but instead Jones won that race with Proud Spell and set himself up to pull off the double.

Eight Belles was the first filly since 1999 to run in the Derby; the last to win was Winning Colors in 1988. She didn't press 2-1 favorite Big Brown down the stretch, and he drew away to a 4 3/4-length victory.

Still, Eight Belles was a sentimental pick by 157,770 fans, second-largest crowd in Derby history. She repaid their support by returning $10.60 and $6.40 for a $2 win ticket.

http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/8102718/Filly-Eight-Belles-breaks-down-after-finish?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=241

She showed tremendous fight and courage. Sad news! :sad:

IceHock
May 4th, 2008, 12:49 AM
are horses different or something, like you can't fix broken ankles, or let them heal?

Wiggly
May 4th, 2008, 12:53 AM
are horses different or something, like you can't fix broken ankles, or let them heal?

Well, one broken leg is a bad injury for an horse.
She was extremely unlucky as she broke two ankles, two front ankles.
It was impossible for her to stand up and go in the ambulance.

It also cost a lot of money to take care of an injuried horse. Many owners will prefer to euthanize it. Unless it's Barbaro.

kris719
May 4th, 2008, 12:55 AM
Yeah I saw this. Sad indeed.

IceHock
May 4th, 2008, 12:58 AM
That really sucks then, I would get something to pick her up, but their too lazy to heal a horse who obviously did not mean alot I guess, idk I would have tried everything.

mckyle.
May 4th, 2008, 01:09 AM
Those injuries take a very long time to heal and they are very painful for the horse. Even if they would have attempted to nurse her back to full health, she would have probably gotten an infection like Barbaro did.

woosey
May 4th, 2008, 01:10 AM
i was watching the telecast. when they said they euthanized her, i was so disgusted. i understand that it would cost money to take care of her, but shit, she has made them money. she placed second - didn't they make money from this race? the least they could do is attempt to aid her.

they just threw her out like she was nothing.

these people are not animal lovers. they are exploiters.

ugh.

woosey
May 4th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Those injuries take a very long time to heal and they are very painful for the horse. Even if they would have attempted to nurse her back to full health, she would have probably gotten an infection like Barbaro did.

but we don't know that.

mckyle.
May 4th, 2008, 01:13 AM
I don't think you're realizing the domino effect leg injuries have on a horse. Two broken ankles means she won't be able to walk for a very long time, then when the ankles are nursed back to full health, all of her leg muscles would have deteriorated and she still wouldn't be able to walk. You may say it's animal cruelty to euthanize her, but I say it's animal cruelty to make her go through the EXTREMELY painful rehabilitation process.

Optima
May 4th, 2008, 01:14 AM
Very sad day. If they had tried to save her, she probably would have gotten the same infection Barbaro did and wouldn't have made it anyway. You people are crazy, they are not exploiting these horses - They love each and every one of them. After you invest so much time, effort and money into one of these horses, they become like family. The doctors knew what they were doing, because well, they specialize in horses. To think they would just not care about her at all is stupid.

woosey
May 4th, 2008, 01:19 AM
i once had an argument about horse racing with a "horse lover" years ago. she insisted that the animals are loved, blah blah blah. i on the other hand see nothing but exploitation in this "sport." the horses are expendable creatures.

Optima
May 4th, 2008, 01:19 AM
i once had an argument about horse racing with a "horse lover" years ago. she insisted that the animals are loved, blah blah blah. i on the other hand see nothing but exploitation in this "sport." the horses are expendable creatures.

:rolleyes: There's no use trying to reason with you.

woosey
May 4th, 2008, 01:21 AM
I don't think you're realizing the domino effect leg injuries have on a horse. Two broken ankles means she won't be able to walk for a very long time, then when the ankles are nursed back to full health, all of her leg muscles would have deteriorated and she still wouldn't be able to walk. You may say it's animal cruelty to euthanize her, but I say it's animal cruelty to make her go through the EXTREMELY painful rehabilitation process.

well, i don't know the ins and outs of equine health, particular when they are injured.

but i think it's cruel to make them race anyway, particularly when people know what the stakes are.

on top of that, there have been allegations that horses are being doped. they were saying that the training of big brown(?) had actually doped horses before.

i'm sure there will be news reports coming out in the days to come about horse racing and whether or not it is exploitative of the animals.

woosey
May 4th, 2008, 01:29 AM
:rolleyes: There's no use trying to reason with you.

there is reasoning. we just disagree. and two reasonable people can reasonably agree to disagree.

i have never agreed with horse racing or dog racing for that matter. this is a business first and foremost. i doubt that many of these people who are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on horses and who have stables that are bred for racing have the kind of closeness with the horses that they do say their dog.

you are spending all of that money for the prestige and for the money you think this horse will make you. of course they like horses but it is still a business. it was in part a business decision to put the horse down too.

this is not a mom and pop organization for a lot of the people involved in horse racing when you get to this level i would imagine.

*JR*
May 4th, 2008, 01:37 AM
i was watching the telecast. when they said they euthanized her, i was so disgusted. i understand that it would cost money to take care of her, but shit, she has made them money. she placed second - didn't they make money from this race? the least they could do is attempt to aid her.

they just threw her out like she was nothing.

these people are not animal lovers. they are exploiters.

ugh.
You can't equate a thoroughbred's ankles to a standardbred horse, the kind that UC in harness racing. The bones are thinner (one reason I'm against breeding thoroughbreds; standardbreds could race with jockeys too, even if a couple of seconds slower).

So the horse can't put any weight on the leg, and (in Barbaro's case) the imbalance caused the hoof on the other one to get infected, eventually leading to him being put down. (A horse that can't be upright most of the time will die, and suspending one in a harness creates other major problems by immobilizing it).

They did what they had to here, sad as it is. (We think of a broken ankle in a person as usually a hairline fracture, in a thoroughbred its more like snapping a stick). A tennis metaphor: I was told regarding Brie Rippner's ankle fracture @ the '01 AO that a racehorse would have been euthanized with that severe a break.

mindy7
May 4th, 2008, 01:38 AM
it's HOCKS

NOT ankles

:rolleyes:

#1SteffiGraf#1
May 4th, 2008, 02:06 AM
What an incredibly sad and amazing story at the same time. The lone filly fights to the end. Amazing that a filly can come in second, but unbelievably sad it had to end like this.

I smell a heartbreaking book/movie soon.

Wannabeknowitall
May 4th, 2008, 02:11 AM
Well she gave it her all.
It did seem a bit odd though. NBC is trying to tell us about a preliminary diagnosis on the horse and she was probably dead already.

drake3781
May 4th, 2008, 02:28 AM
1. These injuries cannot be rehabilitated. Simply cannot be done.
2. Very, very sad. She was just gorgeous, and very tall.
3. They did use the term "ankles" on TV and on espn.com.
4. Not odd that she was euthanized so quickly - preliminary diagnosis was done and there is no choice but to euthanize her.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0503/horse_a_belles01_600.jpg


Bramlage said the fracture in Eight Belles' left front ankle opened the skin, allowing contamination to set in. At least one of her sesamoid bones was broken, too.
"She didn't have a front leg to stand on to be splinted and hauled off in the ambulance, so she was immediately euthanized," he said. "In my years in racing, I have never seen this happen at the end of the race or during the race."
Bramlage was hard-pressed to make sense of yet another breakdown that reminded fans of Barbaro's horrific injury two years ago in the Preakness.
"The difficult thing to explain with her is it's so far after the wire, and she was easing down like you'd like to see a horse slow down by that point," he said. "I don't have an explanation for it."

drake3781
May 4th, 2008, 02:34 AM
Here she is crossing the finish line, second.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?pid=avimage&iid=iI.KlJi7gBdc

mindy7
May 4th, 2008, 02:39 AM
1. These injuries cannot be rehabilitated. Simply cannot be done.
2. Very, very sad. She was just gorgeous, and very tall.
3. They did use the term "ankles" on TV and on espn.com.
4. Not odd that she was euthanized so quickly - preliminary diagnosis was done and there is no choice but to euthanize her.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0503/horse_a_belles01_600.jpg


Bramlage said the fracture in Eight Belles' left front ankle opened the skin, allowing contamination to set in. At least one of her sesamoid bones was broken, too.
"She didn't have a front leg to stand on to be splinted and hauled off in the ambulance, so she was immediately euthanized," he said. "In my years in racing, I have never seen this happen at the end of the race or during the race."
Bramlage was hard-pressed to make sense of yet another breakdown that reminded fans of Barbaro's horrific injury two years ago in the Preakness.
"The difficult thing to explain with her is it's so far after the wire, and she was easing down like you'd like to see a horse slow down by that point," he said. "I don't have an explanation for it."

Trust me, it's HOCKS. ;):)

They most likely couldn’t sedate her as she was in distress, this would most likely have killed her and there would have been no possibility of standing her in her box to recover from two broken hocks. Her poor owners and connections must be heartbroken.:sad:

I think someone must walk and check the track, but it's probably been such a freak accident. Again so sad. :sad:

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2008, 04:37 AM
I can't stand horse racing or dog racing. I don't even go to ZOO'S anymore. It's inhumane, when you really stop and think about it.
What the hell is wrong with human beings? We have no NEED to use animals for entertainment.

may the horse rest in peace.

kris719
May 4th, 2008, 04:46 AM
actually, regarding a dispute in this thread, most of the trainers of these horses do get very close to their horses. Most of the time, these horses are their entire lives. They breed them and raise them to race in races like these. Saying that a trainer or owner of a race horse does not care if he/she loses a horse is just not right, considering all the time, effort, and money they invest on them.

While I was shocked and saddened when the doctor said the horse had been euthanized, I understand why they did it. Barbaro was probably close to being put down on the track too with the initial diagnosis of his injury- and that was just to one of his back legs. Breaking both front ankles means a near impossible recovery and certain interminible pain to the horse. With that in mind, I suppose they made the right decision, even though it was sad for everyone.

darrinbaker00
May 4th, 2008, 04:53 AM
I can't stand horse racing or dog racing. I don't even go to ZOO'S anymore. It's inhumane, when you really stop and think about it.
What the hell is wrong with human beings? We have no NEED to use animals for entertainment.

may the horse rest in peace.
We have no NEED for tennis as entertainment, either.

hingisGOAT
May 4th, 2008, 04:54 AM
Yeah I think horse-racing is pretty disgusting but what can ya do? I swear we hear about the 'shocking' death of a horse every year during these races, just ridiculous -- but hey I don't bet on these idiotic events, watch them on TV, etc... they're not getting my money that's for sure...

Cocobear
May 4th, 2008, 05:20 AM
This is so sad. :sad: But I mean trying to save a horse with one broken leg is extremely hard yet alone two, it's just not a very likely or doable thing. :awww:

it's HOCKS

NOT ankles

:rolleyes:

It wasn't her hocks that broke, horses only have hocks on their back legs. And it was her front legs that broke.

I wonder if by front ankles they really mean front pasterns, if you look at a horse thats the most ankle like thing they have. :shrug: Anyways it's really a sad situation.

kris719
May 4th, 2008, 05:51 AM
Inhumane is testing experimental drugs on dogs or other animals. It is not horse racing

Bijoux0021
May 4th, 2008, 06:17 AM
I don't think you're realizing the domino effect leg injuries have on a horse. Two broken ankles means she won't be able to walk for a very long time, then when the ankles are nursed back to full health, all of her leg muscles would have deteriorated and she still wouldn't be able to walk. You may say it's animal cruelty to euthanize her, but I say it's animal cruelty to make her go through the EXTREMELY painful rehabilitation process.
It's animal cruelty to race horses in the first place. Animals can't talk. If they have some minor or serious injuries, they can't tell their trainers something is wrong and that they can't go on competing. As a result, they are forced to race at full speed on broken legs and ankles. No one notices until the animals are dropped to the ground. :sad:

mykarma
May 4th, 2008, 06:24 AM
We have no NEED for tennis as entertainment, either.
Please Darrin, you can't be comparing a horse to a tennis match. :tape:

kris719
May 4th, 2008, 06:27 AM
As a result, they are forced to race at full speed on broken legs and ankles. No one notices until the animals are dropped to the ground. :sad:
Horses can not walk, yet alone race on broken legs or ankles.

mckyle.
May 4th, 2008, 06:44 AM
I'm going to be upset about this for a very long time. It was such a great story for her to finish second as the only filly, and then for her to die seconds later because of a freak/one-time accident? Life is so screwy sometimes :(

drake3781
May 4th, 2008, 07:16 AM
That really sucks then, I would get something to pick her up, but their too lazy to heal a horse who obviously did not mean alot I guess, idk I would have tried everything.

i was watching the telecast. when they said they euthanized her, i was so disgusted. i understand that it would cost money to take care of her, but shit, she has made them money. she placed second - didn't they make money from this race? the least they could do is attempt to aid her.

they just threw her out like she was nothing.

these people are not animal lovers. they are exploiters.

ugh.

It's really sad but they could not rescue and heal this animal. Horses have to be able to bear their own weight to heal. This is why everything was so difficult and eventually failed for Barbaro. Don't think the people involved did not care or did not love this horse; that would just be wrong and unfair. Whether horse racing overall is cruel is a worthwhile discussion.

It's animal cruelty to race horses in the first place. Animals can't talk. If they have some minor or serious injuries, they can't tell their trainers something is wrong and that they can't go on competing. As a result, they are forced to race at full speed on broken legs and ankles. No one notices until the animals are dropped to the ground. :sad:


I won't argue whether horse racing is cruel or not. I tend to think overall that it is, and I don't support it. But a whole lot of knowledge that I don't have is required to have that argument properly.

But to correct something in your post, just so you know, this filly did not injure herself while she was racing; it was when she was pulling up after the race, changing pace, apparently a very rare occurence at that point. She went down immediately when it happened. So she was not running the race with the injury.

Jeff
May 4th, 2008, 07:57 AM
I saw it on NBC today. Once they announced that the horse had been euthanized, it ruined the excitement of Brown Bag's victory. Quite frankly, I found it strange that they all kept an upbeat temperament after hearing the news, even though it is a live telecast and I know they have to keep moving. Still, I just found the whole thing shocking, disturbing and very sad.

drake3781
May 4th, 2008, 08:06 AM
I saw it on NBC today. Once they announced that the horse had been euthanized, it ruined the excitement of Brown Bag's victory. Quite frankly, I found it strange that they all kept an upbeat temperament after hearing the news, even though it is a live telecast and I know they have to keep moving. Still, I just found the whole thing shocking, disturbing and very sad.

Yes, I had the same experience.

drake3781
May 4th, 2008, 08:21 AM
Here she is in her last few minutes of life, an athlete doing what she did so well.

http://upipics.upi.com/photo/upi/fs/4ef66589b5680883804cc44a37b5d945/2008_KENTUCKY_DERBY.jpg

The 134th running of the Kentucky Derby
Gabriel Saez (R) aboard Eight Belles, leads Bob Black Jack, with Richard Migliore up (L) through the main stretch at the start of the 134th running of the Kentucky Derby at Churchill Downs on May 3, 2008 in Louisville, Kentucky. Philly Eight Belles, who finished second, was euthanized on the track due to a fatal injury. (UPI Photo/Frank Polich)

Kart
May 4th, 2008, 10:03 AM
Seems to me that the horse would not have broken ankles had she not been raced so I'm not convinced the people putting her through this care about her as much as they care about the money she can bring them.

As for whether she should have been put down or not with two broken ankles, I'm sure they acted in what they thought were her best interests which is all you can ask IMHO.

kittyking
May 4th, 2008, 10:42 AM
Incredibly sad story :tears:

SOA_MC
May 4th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Oh come on like the thought process was "This horse can't make us money with a broken leg so lets just shoot it"

If you believed that how it was then :help:

laschutz
May 4th, 2008, 04:50 PM
HORSE RACING IS A SICK, CRUEL, EXPLOITIVE, MONEY MAKING FOR ALREADY RICH PEOPLE "SPORT"!

i was a big horseracing fan once. i thought it was fun,exciting and beautiful to see these horses run. however, the turning point was seeing and feeling the heartbreak i felt when barbaro became injured, his suffering and final having to be put down.

i came to realize that it's all about money, yeah, these owners care about the horses oh maybe second, third or fourth after money, prestige, ego, etcetera. ('damn, he can't race anymore, but can we still breed him to make more just like him and make more money before we have to put him or her down!")

i remember when some incredible idiotic female sportscaster said that when barbaro went down "well things happen to professional athletes and barbaro is one"!!!!!?????? IS/WAS SHE INSANE! THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PRO "human"ATHLETE DUMB BROAD! a human pro athlete has a choice to be a athlete and it's outcomes for better or for worse, you think any of these horses have a choice?!! perhaps they like the feel of running and the freedom, but do they want the training, the pressure, the noise, the crowds, the scolding and the whipping if they don't do what's right by humans?! also when a human pro athlete breaks their arm or leg, you don't have to put them down do you!!!!!!

the fact that in any race whether your local racing downs or in the world famous triple stakes races that there is the chance for at least 1 horse to break down and to be euthanized, DOESN'T THAT STRIKE A WARNING SIGN FOR PEOPLE IN THIS "SPORT"! SICK AND SO SAD! the fact is they start training these horses very young before they have fully matured (bones,muscles,etc) and have to race them very early (before it's too late?!) and that is why they break down!

i won't even go into the whole crap about rich people dressing up to get attention and be noticed on tv including so called celebrities of this world who 1)didn't have to pay to get the best seats and 2) don't give a shit and/or don't know anything about horses!!!

i'm also against boxing? i mean yes, there is a talent to it i guess, but really the means to an end has it when all is said and done the point being to beat the crap out of another human for victory!

CrossCourt~Rally
May 4th, 2008, 04:52 PM
This is very sad:sad:.

*JR*
May 4th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Eerie timing:

Frank Whiteley Jr., Trained Ruffian, Is Dead at 93

By RICHARD GOLDSTEIN
Published: May 4, 2008 (NY Times)

Frank Whiteley Jr., the thoroughbred racing Hall of Famer who trained the brilliant but ill-fated filly Ruffian, died Friday in Camden, S.C. He was 93.

His death was announced by the New York Racing Association.

A trainer for nearly a half century, Mr. Whiteley saddled the great gelding Forego and the 1967 horse of the year Damascus. But he was best remembered for Ruffian, perhaps the greatest female thoroughbred in history.

On July 6, 1975, Ruffian, undefeated in 10 starts — setting stakes or track records in most of them — and having swept the filly Triple Crown, was matched against Foolish Pleasure, the winner of that year’s Kentucky Derby, in a mile-and-a-quarter race at Belmont Park.

Coming two years after tennis’s celebrated Battle of the Sexes between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs, the match race of the 3-year-olds was billed as horse racing’s equivalent of a glamorous boy versus girl duel, an equine sideshow to the women’s rights movement.

But what promised to be one of horse racing’s greatest days became one of its grimmest. Nearly half a mile into the race, in front by a neck, Ruffian shattered her right front ankle. Flashing her competitive spirit, she continued to run for another 40 yards, compounding her injury, as her jockey, Jacinto Vasquez, somehow managed to keep her upright.

In an emotional sports saga that captured national attention, a team of veterinarians operated on Ruffian into the night in the face of virtually hopeless odds. They placed a cast on her broken leg, but while coming out of anesthesia, Ruffian struggled so violently that she smashed it. At 2:20 a.m. the day after the race, she was put down by injection. That night, she was buried at Belmont’s infield, 70 yards beyond the finish line, beneath a flag pole that had been flying at half staff.

Twenty-five years after Ruffian took her fatal misstep, Mr. Whiteley recalled the moment he had first seen her, in a pasture at Claiborne Farm in Kentucky. He said, “She was only a yearling, but she had that quality you only see once in a lifetime.”

On Saturday, in the 134th running of the Kentucky Derby, the filly Eight Belles collapsed with two broken ankles after finishing second to the colt Big Brown and was euthanized.

Frank Yewell Whiteley Jr. was born and raised on a farm in Centreville, Md. He rode horses at shows and fairs and obtained his trainer’s license in Maryland in 1936.

Mr. Whiteley won a Triple Crown race for the first time in 1965, when he saddled Tom Rolfe in the Preakness Stakes. Two years later, he trained Damascus, who won horse of the year honors after victories in the Preakness, the Belmont Stakes, the Travers and the Woodward.

In 1976, Mr. Whiteley took over the training of Forego, who won the horse of the year title that year. Mr. Whiteley was inducted into the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame at Saratoga Springs, N.Y., in 1978.

Mr. Whiteley was “a wonderful horseman, who did it the grass-roots way, and there just aren’t that many around any more,” his fellow Hall of Fame trainer Shug McGaughey told the New York Racing Association. “When they got sick, he gave them aspirin. When they needed to be iced, he hosed them.”

Mr. Whiteley retired in 1984 and conducted winter training for many years in Camden. Last year, he was portrayed by Sam Shepard in the television movie “Ruffian.”

He is survived by his sons David and Alan. David Whiteley trained Coastal, the 1979 Belmont Stakes winner.

Two days after Ruffian’s death, a wreath of 1,200 white carnations in the shape of a horseshoe was placed on her grave by NYRA, an addition to a host of floral tributes there.

Mr. Whiteley glanced that day at Ruffian’s old stall in Barn 34 at Belmont. “That stall will never be occupied as long as I have this barn,” he said. “There’ll never be a horse worthy of entering it.”

miffedmax
May 4th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Sad. I enjoy watching horse races now and then, but when something like this happens I do have to wonder if it's all worth it.

plantman
May 4th, 2008, 06:28 PM
A friend of mine and a well know horse trainer from around these parts says that these horses are much to young to be running in these races in the first place. He's really surprised we don't see more of this type of injury occuring more often.

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2008, 09:21 PM
We have no NEED for tennis as entertainment, either.
Err, "tennis" is not a live animal. Are you insane? to compare tennis to animals that are being bred and used for someones elses entertainment is ludicrus??
Humans are really the dumbest animals on planet earth.

mckyle.
May 4th, 2008, 09:22 PM
Err, "tennis" is not a live animal. Are you insane? to compare tennis to animals that are being bred and used for someones elses entertainment is ludicrus??
Humans are really the dumbest animals on planet earth.

Tennis players are humans. How dare we use humans, our own species, as entertainment?!!!!!???1

Dawn Marie
May 5th, 2008, 01:12 AM
Tennis players are humans. How dare we use humans, our own species, as entertainment?!!!!!???1
Humans play sports, because of the competiton. U're a tool.
Ok, what if a alien came from space and decided to put your ass in a cage. The alien was bigger and stronger and you had no choice in the matter. Have u ever wondered how you would feel , or how you would like that?? The aliens had a human zoo and all they did was stare at your ass all day long??
Or the aliens had your ass running and forced you to participate in activities, you were hurt and then put to sleep because you couldn't handle it. You think Horses are for running races. I like them just being horses. The same with dogs and all animals on Earth.

If you really think Humans are smart then think again. We as a whole are the ignorant creatures on this planet. We have NO NEED to treat abuse animals for our own selfish purpose Were not even the stronger physical species. Termites jump higher than their normal body size and ants carry food 4 times their size.

kris719
May 5th, 2008, 02:06 AM
to compare tennis to animals that are being bred and used for someones elses entertainment is ludicrus??
ummm that's what pets are. Do you have a pet?

mckyle.
May 5th, 2008, 03:55 AM
Humans play sports, because of the competiton. U're a tool.
Ok, what if a alien came from space and decided to put your ass in a cage. The alien was bigger and stronger and you had no choice in the matter. Have u ever wondered how you would feel , or how you would like that?? The aliens had a human zoo and all they did was stare at your ass all day long??
Or the aliens had your ass running and forced you to participate in activities, you were hurt and then put to sleep because you couldn't handle it. You think Horses are for running races. I like them just being horses. The same with dogs and all animals on Earth.

If you really think Humans are smart then think again. We as a whole are the ignorant creatures on this planet. We have NO NEED to treat abuse animals for our own selfish purpose Were not even the stronger physical species. Termites jump higher than their normal body size and ants carry food 4 times their size.

And you say I'm the tool? :lol: Get a grip on life, sweetheart :lol:

darrinbaker00
May 5th, 2008, 08:13 AM
Err, "tennis" is not a live animal. Are you insane? to compare tennis to animals that are being bred and used for someones elses entertainment is ludicrus??
Humans are really the dumbest animals on planet earth.
If you're offering yourself as evidence to prove your argument, I can't disagree with you.....

darrinbaker00
May 5th, 2008, 08:21 AM
It's animal cruelty to race horses in the first place. Animals can't talk. If they have some minor or serious injuries, they can't tell their trainers something is wrong and that they can't go on competing. As a result, they are forced to race at full speed on broken legs and ankles. No one notices until the animals are dropped to the ground. :sad:
Unfortunately, Eight Belles proved that horses can't stand on broken legs, much less run.

Martian KC
May 5th, 2008, 01:36 PM
Seems to me that the horse would not have broken ankles had she not been raced so I'm not convinced the people putting her through this care about her as much as they care about the money she can bring them.

Thank you!

A Magicman
May 5th, 2008, 01:57 PM
It also cost a lot of money to take care of an injuried horse. Many owners will prefer to euthanize it. Unless it's Barbaro.

And you know what happened to Barbaro. He didnt get an infection from nothing, he got laminitis, cos he didn't balance correctly and put his weight on 3 legs for months.

A horse is not comparable to a human. It's a very complex physical system and what I have learned from years on the racing track and having co-owned several horses: when it's over, it's over. The single and only case where a horse has survived such a process was Nureyev. But he "only" broke a leg in a paddock accident and did not shatter 2 ankles after a race.

Cocobear
May 5th, 2008, 04:38 PM
Seems to me that the horse would not have broken ankles had she not been raced so I'm not convinced the people putting her through this care about her as much as they care about the money she can bring them.


Heres the thing horses like humans can break a bone doing anything. It can happen going over a jump, racing, taking a misstep, etc. So does this mean anyone who rides a horse doesn't care about the animal because at anytime something could go wrong and the horse could break? Because you know what horses break there bones on their own with no human assistance, I have seen some do it in even worse ways before :tape:. So yeah while her ankles were broken because of a race, that doesn't mean that had she not been a racehorse she never would have broken. :shrug:

A Magicman
May 5th, 2008, 05:06 PM
If she would not have been a racehorse she would not have been at all.

To answer the question, why humans "use" horses for their entertainment - otherwise there would be no more horses except in zoos. Horses have been needed for working on farms, in forests and in mines for centuries. Now we have machines. Guess, what would've happened to the species "equus". It would've been close to extinction now.

LCS
May 5th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Poor horse....:sad:

Kart
May 5th, 2008, 10:18 PM
Heres the thing horses like humans can break a bone doing anything. It can happen going over a jump, racing, taking a misstep, etc. So does this mean anyone who rides a horse doesn't care about the animal because at anytime something could go wrong and the horse could break? Because you know what horses break there bones on their own with no human assistance, I have seen some do it in even worse ways before :tape:. So yeah while her ankles were broken because of a race, that doesn't mean that had she not been a racehorse she never would have broken. :shrug:
I would agree with you, except that it's not uncommon for horses to break limbs and be put down after big races like this.

It is putting them at unnecessary risk and you know it.

darrinbaker00
May 5th, 2008, 11:13 PM
I would agree with you, except that it's not uncommon for horses to break limbs and be put down after big races like this.

It is putting them at unnecessary risk and you know it.
Actually, it is uncommon for horses to break limbs after running races, just like it's uncommon for race-car drivers to die from crashes. We're all so quick to blame someone or something when something like this happens (PETA wants an investigation launched--surprise, surprise), but there's no blame here. Eight Belles' death was a tragic accident. Period.

Cocobear
May 5th, 2008, 11:18 PM
It is putting them at unnecessary risk and you know it.

I agree with you that it's putting them at more risk, then say a lesson horse would be at. But still everything you do with a horse can be risky. I actually am not a fan of horse racing I never have been. I have seen tons of horses get ruined by the track, although more mentally ruined then physically. Yes physical injuries happen but they are going to happen no matter what. I was just making a point that horses break even if they aren't being raced so people shouldn't just assume that it's all racings fault and wouldn't have happened if not for the racing.

*JR*
May 5th, 2008, 11:28 PM
I would agree with you, except that it's not uncommon for horses to break limbs and be put down after big races like this.

It is putting them at unnecessary risk and you know it.
Mostly thoroughbreds, originally created in the 1700's by coss-breeding standardbreds with quarterhorses, an odd variant that can run very fast but only for about a short distance; hence the name (after the length of their races, which are still held). Standardbreds (the ones pulling a "driver" sitting in a "sulky" in harness racing) are far more durable. And workhorses like Clydesdales really are. That's how the early Americans traveled (both native Americans and European settlers) and who in teams pulled the wagon trains involved in the latter expanding inland.

The really sadistic thing (more popular in Britain than here) is steeplechase, where a horse has to jump a hedge with a rider on its back. (Or decide not to, as the late Christopher Reeve found out in '95). I realize that Marti is into that pasttime too, but she probably weighs half what he did. Polo also seems like something less natural for horses than racing, though often the jockeys and harness drivers try to squeeze them thru pretty narrow gaps in a race.

Kart
May 5th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Actually, it is uncommon for horses to break limbs after running races, just like it's uncommon for race-car drivers to die from crashes. We're all so quick to blame someone or something when something like this happens (PETA wants an investigation launched--surprise, surprise), but there's no blame here. Eight Belles' death was a tragic accident. Period.
I beg to differ. I know next to nothing about horse racing but I've always associated one of the big races here in England (the grand national) with horses having to be put down so I looked it up:

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-grandnational&prov=ap&type=lgns

I would not term 38 horse deaths in the span of 11 years as 'uncommon.' I don't know about the validity of the source so am open to correction if you're more informed.

BTW, I'm not apportioning blame here. Just pointing out that this is a business more than it is an appreciation of horses' racing ability.

A Magicman
May 5th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Mostly thoroughbreds, originally created in the 1700's by coss-breeding standardbreds with quarterhorses, an odd variant that can run very fast but only for about a short distance; hence the name (after the length of their races, which are still held). Standardbreds (the ones pulling a "driver" sitting in a "sulky" in harness racing) are far more durable. And workhorses like Clydesdales really are. That's how the early Americans traveled (both native Americans and European settlers) and who in teams pulled the wagon trains involved in the latter expanding inland.

The really sadistic thing (more popular in Britain than here) is steeplechase, where a horse has to jump a hedge with a rider on its back. (Or decide not to, as the late Christopher Reeve found out in '95). I realize that Marti is into that pasttime too, but she probably weighs half what he did. Polo also seems like something less natural for horses than racing, though often the jockeys and harness drivers try to squeeze them thru pretty narrow gaps in a race.


Thoroughbreds descend from British warmblood mares and Turkish and Arab Horses, 3 rootfathers are preserved in actual pedigrees: Darley Arabian, Byerley Turk and Godolphin Arabian. All of them have this descendence. No Quarter horses in the pedigrees. Christopher Reeve did not fall in a thoroughbred steeplechase but during "show jumping" or how you wanna call it. Steeplechasing is not more cruel than flat racing, the figures of dead horses speak for themselves.

Kart
May 5th, 2008, 11:56 PM
I was just making a point that horses break even if they aren't being raced so people shouldn't just assume that it's all racings fault and wouldn't have happened if not for the racing.
Of course but nothing in life is without risk. I never disputed that.

darrinbaker00
May 5th, 2008, 11:59 PM
I beg to differ. I know next to nothing about horse racing but I've always associated one of the big races here in England (the grand national) with horses having to be put down so I looked it up:

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-grandnational&prov=ap&type=lgns

I would not term 38 horse deaths in the span of 11 years as 'uncommon.' I don't know about the validity of the source so am open to correction if you're more informed.

BTW, I'm not apportioning blame here. Just pointing out that this is a business more than it is an appreciation of horses' racing ability.
You're comparing apples to oranges, my friend. The Kentucky Derby is a 1.25-mile race with no obstacles, so there is obviously less of a chance for the horses to suffer an injury. To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised the Grand National race doesn't have more equine fatalities than it does. Four-point-five miles AND 30 fences? That's insane.

Cocobear
May 6th, 2008, 02:23 AM
I beg to differ. I know next to nothing about horse racing but I've always associated one of the big races here in England (the grand national) with horses having to be put down so I looked it up:

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-grandnational&prov=ap&type=lgns

I would not term 38 horse deaths in the span of 11 years as 'uncommon.' I don't know about the validity of the source so am open to correction if you're more informed.

BTW, I'm not apportioning blame here. Just pointing out that this is a business more than it is an appreciation of horses' racing ability.
The grand national is a completely different kind of race :p it's complete madness.
To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised the Grand National race doesn't have more equine fatalities than it does. Four-point-five miles AND 30 fences? That's insane.
*nods*

woosey
May 6th, 2008, 02:47 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/sports/othersports/04rhoden.html?&no_interstitial

The New York Times
Race Illustrates Brutal Side of Sport

By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
Published: May 4, 2008

Louisville, Ky.

Why do we keep giving thoroughbred horse racing a pass? Is it the tradition? The millions upon millions invested in the betting?

Why isn’t there more pressure to put the sport of kings under the umbrella of animal cruelty?

The sport is at least as inhumane as greyhound racing and only a couple of steps removed from animal fighting.

Is it the fact that horse racing is imbedded in the American fabric? And the Triple Crown is a nationally televised spectacle? Or is it the fact that death on the track is rarely seen by a mainstream television audience?

The sentiment was summed up by Dr. Larry Bramlage on Saturday when, asked about fillies racing against colts, he said, “One death is not an epidemic.”

But this isn’t about one death. This is about the nature of a sport that routinely grinds up young horses.

A national audience was exposed to the bittersweet experience of a tremendous victory by Big Brown and — moments later — the stunning news that Eight Belles had been euthanized. As we watched Big Brown’s owner celebrate the unmitigated joy of winning the Derby, we watched Bramlage describe the details of Eight Belles’s horrible death: She had completed the race, finishing a heroic second to Big Brown. She was around the turn at the start of the backstretch when her front ankles collapsed.

Bramlage described the sickening image of what had happened: a condylar fracture on the left side and the left front that opened the skin, went through it and was contaminated.

“She didn’t have a front leg to stand on to be splinted and hauled off in the ambulance, so she was immediately euthanized,” Bramlage said.

And that was that.

After the race, Larry Jones, Eight Belles’s trainer, choked back tears as he answered questions about the filly’s death. But even through the grief, Jones instinctively toed the industry line about racing. He discounted the notion — and veiled criticism — that the dirt surface might have contributed to her death. He also refused to concede the point that horse racing is an extremely dangerous sport, saying that these types of injuries occur in any sport.

Within the racing industry, Eight Belles was a tragic but glorious casualty. The industry is in denial: racing grinds up horses, and we dress up the sport with large hats, mint juleps and string bands.

Why do we refuse to put the brutal game of racing in the realm of mistreatment of animals? At what point do we at least raise the question about the efficacy of thousand-pound horses racing at full throttle on spindly legs?

This is bullfighting.

Eight Belles was another victim of a brutal sport that is carried, literally, on the backs of horses. Horsemen like to talk about their thoroughbreds and how they were born to run and live to run. The reality is that they are made to run, forced to run for profits they never see.

On Saturday, it was Eight Belles in Louisville. Two years ago, it was Barbaro in Baltimore, with a misstep at the Preakness. And who knows how many horses die anonymous deaths? Eight Belles, we’ll write, was merely the casualty of a brutal game.

But one death is too many. The miracle of the sport of kings is that there aren’t more. But how many more do we need?

Before Saturday’s race, I walked over to the stable where Michael Matz was preparing Visionaire for the Derby. Matz was the trainer of Barbaro, the superhorse who won here in 2006 and took that fatal misstep two weeks later at the Preakness. On Friday, one of Matz’s horses, Chelokee, sustained a condylar fracture of the cannon bone in his right front leg during the running of the Alysheba Stakes at Churchill Downs.

The initial report was that the injury was of the same nature as Barbaro’s, and that Chelokee had a fractured ankle. The reports were inaccurate, but I wondered what thoughts had gone through Matz’s mind.

“I just ran out there to see how he was doing,” he said. Barbaro hadn’t crossed his mind, he said, just this horse at this time. That was all. Matz talked briefly about Barbaro, about why the image remains so fresh in our minds. Then he excused himself. “I have to get my horse ready for this race,” he said.

John Stephens broke in Barbaro and Visionaire when they were yearlings. Stephens was in Baltimore when Barbaro took the misstep. That experience, he said, has tempered, if not changed, his perspective on horse racing.

“I want my horse to win — I’m not going to kid you,” he said. “But not at all costs. I don’t want any horse to get injured. I want everyone to have a good trip. I want everybody to come back home.”

The words haunted me as I left the stable and echoed as I saw Eight Belles in a heap. Thoroughbred racing is a brutal sport. Why do we keep giving it a pass?

kris719
May 6th, 2008, 04:02 AM
People who classify horse-racing as an inhumane sport need to take into account the risk of the jockey as well. I've heard of many jockeys suffering life altering injuries from a race before. If you fall off a horse during a race, you risk near certain paralysis or death. Not just the horses are at risk here. It is dangerous to both parties, but that's nothing new. This is certainly not the only sport where there is some risk of serious injury. You can hurt yourself doing pretty much anything. Actually as far as horse racing goes, it's relatively tame. There are thousands of horse races accross this country in a year that go off without an incident. But when something goes wrong in the Kentucky Derby in front of a national audience, people are quick to point out how horse-racing is inhumane? C'mon :rolleyes:

Kart
May 6th, 2008, 02:45 PM
You're comparing apples to oranges, my friend. The Kentucky Derby is a 1.25-mile race with no obstacles, so there is obviously less of a chance for the horses to suffer an injury. To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised the Grand National race doesn't have more equine fatalities than it does. Four-point-five miles AND 30 fences? That's insane.
We are talking about horse races in general though are we not ? :shrug:

Though I take your point.