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svetaisthebest
Apr 27th, 2008, 09:49 PM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23608170-12377,00.html

:tape::tape:

kwilliams
Apr 27th, 2008, 09:56 PM
AN Austrian woman has claimed she was kept prisoner and abused by her father for 24 years in a basement dungeon in eastern Austria, where she bore him six children, Austrian police said.

The 42-year-old woman has been named by police as Elisabeth F and told authorities she had been abused by her father, now 73, since the age of 11.

She told police her father Joseph lured her into the basement of their house in the town of Amstetten in 1984, and drugged and handcuffed her before locking her up.

"She had been abused continuously during the 24-year-long imprisonment,'' the statement said.

"This led to six children.''

The woman said Joseph provided her and three of her children, who were locked up with her, with clothing and food.

His wife Rosemarie had not been aware of what was going on.

The case came to light when the oldest child named as Kerstin F fell severely ill and had to be taken to Amstetten hospital.

"A 19-year-old girl was dropped off at the Amstetten hospital last weekend,'' a police spokesman said.

"The girl is seriously ill and is fighting for her life. A search for the mother, who had disappeared, was launched to get more details about the girl.''

DNA samples of all the people involved have been taken and will be evaluated, police said.

The case is reminiscent of that of Austrian Natascha Kampusch, who spent eight year locked up in a windowless cell before dashing to freedom in August 2006.





I assume Rosemarie was living in another country!?!?!? 24 years and she didn't clue in. Why did she think her daughter was living in a basement and mysteriously falling pregnant every couple of years.

I read this story earlier and I just don't get it. Were the six children born in the basement? Did they ever leave? This is all so far beyond fucked up. That poor woman and those poor children. I can only imagine how they will turn out.

Nemo_Kool
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:01 PM
That man should be handcuffed and left to starve in his cellar

svetaisthebest
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:06 PM
I cant imagine how the children are:tape::tape:
and she had six of them with her dad thats just unbelievable:eek::tape:

TheBoiledEgg
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:11 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7370208.stm

Timeline: Austrian cellar case



A timeline of events in the case of a woman in Amstetten, Austria, allegedly held and sexually abused by her father for 24 years in his cellar, during which time she is believed to have given birth to seven of his children.
The events included are based on an Austrian police statement issued after the arrest of the 73-year-old father.
28 AUGUST 1984

The suspected abductor, Josef F, allegedly lures his daughter Elisabeth into the cellar of their house, drugging and handcuffing her before locking her up.
DATE UNKNOWN

Josef and his wife Rosemarie receive a letter in Elisabeth's handwriting saying they should not try to look for her. Rosemarie is unaware of the truth, Elisabeth later tells police.
1988-89 (APPROXIMATELY)

Kerstin, the first of seven reported children, is secretly born (exact date unknown) and raised in the cellar. She is followed shortly by a brother.
1993

A baby is discovered outside the family home along with a letter from Elisabeth saying she cannot care for it. It is taken in by Josef and his wife. A second infant appears in 1994. Both are either fostered or adopted, and are raised by their grandparents.
1996

Twins are born to Elisabeth but one dies shortly after birth and is allegedly taken away and burnt by Josef. The following year, a third infant appears at the house, and is taken in like the previous two, to be raised by grandparents.
2003

A letter arrives from Elisabeth to say she had another baby in December 2002. This child is believed to have been brought up in the cellar along with Kerstin and her brother.
SATURDAY 19 APRIL 2008

Police issue an appeal to missing person Elisabeth F to contact them about her daughter Kerstin, who has been admitted to hospital in Amstetten with a serious illness.
19-27 APRIL 2008

At some point during the week, according to the police statement, Josef releases Elisabeth and the two other children in the cellar, telling his wife Rosemarie she has chosen to return home.
SATURDAY 26 APRIL 2008

Police discover Elisabeth and her children at the house.

SUNDAY 27 APRIL 2008
Police announce the arrest of Josef on suspicion of incest and abduction. All the children are placed in care and Elisabeth is given medical and psychological treatment. Kerstin remains in hospital "fighting for her life".

Nemo_Kool
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:14 PM
how did the wife not know fuck all...children make noise and the cellar is presumably in the house, this is wayyy too messed up.

svetaisthebest
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:19 PM
He probably turned his wife :cuckoo:
what a weirdo:tape::tape::tape:

Sally Struthers
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:39 PM
what's with the incest in Australia lately? :o :lol:

kwilliams
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:51 PM
what's with the incest in Australia lately? :o :lol:

It was in Austria, the story is just from an Australian website.

Sally Struthers
Apr 27th, 2008, 10:52 PM
It was in Austria, the story is just from an Australian website.

oh. my mistake. I just read the headline and saw the picture of Australia. :o

kwilliams
Apr 27th, 2008, 11:10 PM
oh. my mistake. I just read the headline and saw the picture of Australia. :o

The story does make me think of that girl who was kidnapped and kept in a cellar for years in Austria. The girl that was in the news about a year or a year and a half ago. She was in the news there recently because she said she sometimes had concentual sex with her captor but I would never consider sex concentual under those circumstances.

flyingmachine
Apr 27th, 2008, 11:23 PM
:mad:
This is disgusting. :mad:
I just can't believe his wife knows nothing about. :o:fiery:
Anyway he should be lock up in the celler FOREVER!

WF4EVER
Apr 27th, 2008, 11:39 PM
what's with the incest in Australia lately?
oh. my mistake. I just read the headline and saw the picture of Australia. :o

I thought the very same thing you did until I realized it was Austria.

Denise4925
Apr 28th, 2008, 12:46 AM
The mother has to be deaf, otherwise the girl could have screamed and must have once she realized her predicament. The screams of child birth, b/c obviously she had them naturally. And, lastly the sounds of a baby crying, playing, etc. Also, what about the food and clothes he was supplying. He had to feed them everyday or at least every other day. What about allergies, colds, childhood diseases. This makes no sense of how it worked out for so long for him. I'm baffled.

Infiniti2001
Apr 28th, 2008, 03:19 AM
I don't want to believe that mommy dearest is innocent here :o:help:

gentenaire
Apr 28th, 2008, 06:29 AM
Surely the wife must have known something. What mother doesn't go looking for her daughter when the daughter keeps leaving babies on the doorstep?
And didn't she ever check the finances? How could she never have noticed the husband buying groceries and clothes?

Pasta-Na
Apr 28th, 2008, 06:36 AM
how did the wife not know fuck all...children make noise and the cellar is presumably in the house, this is wayyy too messed up.

his house is as big as a castle :shrug:

Tennis Fool
Apr 28th, 2008, 12:01 PM
This is a very creepy story.

Elwin.
Apr 28th, 2008, 12:05 PM
This is sick :o

blackcrave
Apr 28th, 2008, 03:03 PM
down syndrome is the problem of the children... that is so mean

Avid Merrion
Apr 28th, 2008, 03:22 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7371043.stm#graphic
Austrian 'admits daughter abuse'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44606000/jpg/_44606762_joseffafp226b.jpg
Police said Josef F admitted sexually abusing his daughter repeatedly

A 73-year-old Austrian man has confessed to imprisoning his daughter in a cellar for 24 years and fathering her seven children, police have said.

Police said "Josef F" also confessed to burning the body of a baby that died after birth at the house in Amstetten, in the province of Lower Austria.

Authorities are caring for the woman, now 42, and her six surviving children.

Police have released photos of the man's basement which show a concealed network of tiny windowless chambers.

The rooms, covering an area of approximately 60 sq m (650 sq ft), were equipped for sleeping and cooking, and with sanitary facilities.

"Everything was very, very narrow and the victim herself, the mother of these six or seven children, told us that this was being continually enlarged over the years," a police spokesman said.

A local district official, Hans Heinz Lenze, added that their captor kept them securely locked away.

"A massive, home-built, reinforced concrete door was built into the wall which separated the dungeon from the rest of the house," he said.

"This reinforced concrete door was secured electronically and the accused was the only one to know the code."

Shock

The head of the criminal affairs bureau in Lower Austria, Franz Polzer, told the BBC that Josef had admitted sexually abusing his daughter, named only as Elisabeth F, repeatedly during the time he imprisoned her.

He said Josef had told investigators that one of their children had died shortly after being born and that he had thrown the body into an incinerator in the building.

The six surviving children are reported to be three boys and three girls aged between five and 20.

The police questioning is continuing and is expected to last a long time, Mr Polzer added.

On Sunday evening, police confirmed they had found the cellar where Elisabeth was allegedly held along with three of her children.

Three other children were adopted or fostered by the suspect. His wife, Rosemarie, appears to have been unaware of the alleged crimes.

Police found the cellar after Josef gave them the code to unlock the hidden door.

Small search teams of policemen, some in protective suits, have been seen going in and out of the house in Amstetten, a small town about 130km (80 miles) west of Vienna, on Monday.

Journalist Andreas Wetz, of the daily newspaper Die Presse, told the BBC the suspect's neighbours were in shock.

"The man who is said to have done this, they said he was funny, he talked to neighbours, he might be a little introverted, but they had no idea that this person could do this," he said.

The BBC's Bethany Bell says the case is reminiscent of that of Natasha Kampusch, the Austrian teenager held captive in a cellar in a house in a Vienna suburb for eight years, who ran to freedom in 2006.

While police are not connecting the two cases, many Austrians are asking how such matters went undiscovered, she says.

The editorial of one of Austria's leading newspapers, Der Standard, said the whole country had to ask itself just what was going wrong.

Hospital appeal

In a statement issued on Sunday, police said Elisabeth had told them that her father had begun sexually abusing her from the age of 11.

She disappeared aged 18 on 28 August 1984 when, according to her testimony, Josef lured her into the cellar, drugging and handcuffing her before locking her up.

Her parents said they had received a letter in her handwriting a month later asking them not to search for her, and it was assumed she had run away.

During her 24-year imprisonment, Elisabeth gave birth to seven children, she said, including twins in 1996. One of the twins died several days later because it had not received adequate care, the police statement said.

Elisabeth is receiving medical and psychological treatment and her children are in care, police said. Her eldest daughter, Kerstin, is in hospital with a serious illness.

The 19-year-old's admission to hospital a week ago, after allegedly being hidden in the cellar with her mother and two siblings, sparked new interest in the whereabouts of Elisabeth.

After Kerstin fell ill, doctors appealed for her mother to come forward to provide details about her medical history.

Josef then released both Elisabeth and the remaining two children from the cellar, telling his wife Rosemarie that she had chosen to return home, police say.

Police arrested him shortly afterwards and took the children into care, along with the three who had been adopted or fostered.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44607000/gif/_44607277_aus_horror_house466.gif

mykarma
Apr 28th, 2008, 03:38 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7371043.stm#graphic
Austrian 'admits daughter abuse'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44606000/jpg/_44606762_joseffafp226b.jpg
Police said Josef F admitted sexually abusing his daughter repeatedly

A 73-year-old Austrian man has confessed to imprisoning his daughter in a cellar for 24 years and fathering her seven children, police have said.

Police said "Josef F" also confessed to burning the body of a baby that died after birth at the house in Amstetten, in the province of Lower Austria.

Authorities are caring for the woman, now 42, and her six surviving children.

Police have released photos of the man's basement which show a concealed network of tiny windowless chambers.

The rooms, covering an area of approximately 60 sq m (650 sq ft), were equipped for sleeping and cooking, and with sanitary facilities.

"Everything was very, very narrow and the victim herself, the mother of these six or seven children, told us that this was being continually enlarged over the years," a police spokesman said.

A local district official, Hans Heinz Lenze, added that their captor kept them securely locked away.

"A massive, home-built, reinforced concrete door was built into the wall which separated the dungeon from the rest of the house," he said.

"This reinforced concrete door was secured electronically and the accused was the only one to know the code."

Shock

The head of the criminal affairs bureau in Lower Austria, Franz Polzer, told the BBC that Josef had admitted sexually abusing his daughter, named only as Elisabeth F, repeatedly during the time he imprisoned her.

He said Josef had told investigators that one of their children had died shortly after being born and that he had thrown the body into an incinerator in the building.

The six surviving children are reported to be three boys and three girls aged between five and 20.

The police questioning is continuing and is expected to last a long time, Mr Polzer added.

On Sunday evening, police confirmed they had found the cellar where Elisabeth was allegedly held along with three of her children.

Three other children were adopted or fostered by the suspect. His wife, Rosemarie, appears to have been unaware of the alleged crimes.

Police found the cellar after Josef gave them the code to unlock the hidden door.

Small search teams of policemen, some in protective suits, have been seen going in and out of the house in Amstetten, a small town about 130km (80 miles) west of Vienna, on Monday.

Journalist Andreas Wetz, of the daily newspaper Die Presse, told the BBC the suspect's neighbours were in shock.

"The man who is said to have done this, they said he was funny, he talked to neighbours, he might be a little introverted, but they had no idea that this person could do this," he said.

The BBC's Bethany Bell says the case is reminiscent of that of Natasha Kampusch, the Austrian teenager held captive in a cellar in a house in a Vienna suburb for eight years, who ran to freedom in 2006.

While police are not connecting the two cases, many Austrians are asking how such matters went undiscovered, she says.

The editorial of one of Austria's leading newspapers, Der Standard, said the whole country had to ask itself just what was going wrong.

Hospital appeal

In a statement issued on Sunday, police said Elisabeth had told them that her father had begun sexually abusing her from the age of 11.

She disappeared aged 18 on 28 August 1984 when, according to her testimony, Josef lured her into the cellar, drugging and handcuffing her before locking her up.

Her parents said they had received a letter in her handwriting a month later asking them not to search for her, and it was assumed she had run away.

During her 24-year imprisonment, Elisabeth gave birth to seven children, she said, including twins in 1996. One of the twins died several days later because it had not received adequate care, the police statement said.

Elisabeth is receiving medical and psychological treatment and her children are in care, police said. Her eldest daughter, Kerstin, is in hospital with a serious illness.

The 19-year-old's admission to hospital a week ago, after allegedly being hidden in the cellar with her mother and two siblings, sparked new interest in the whereabouts of Elisabeth.

After Kerstin fell ill, doctors appealed for her mother to come forward to provide details about her medical history.

Josef then released both Elisabeth and the remaining two children from the cellar, telling his wife Rosemarie that she had chosen to return home, police say.

Police arrested him shortly afterwards and took the children into care, along with the three who had been adopted or fostered.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44607000/gif/_44607277_aus_horror_house466.gif
Imagine being 17 years old and never seeing the light of day :sad: I also wonder if the mother could ever hear her other three children outside playing or did she even know if they were alive.

This is truly sick.

Xian
Apr 28th, 2008, 05:31 PM
The mother has to be deaf, otherwise the girl could have screamed and must have once she realized her predicament. The screams of child birth, b/c obviously she had them naturally. And, lastly the sounds of a baby crying, playing, etc. Also, what about the food and clothes he was supplying. He had to feed them everyday or at least every other day. What about allergies, colds, childhood diseases. This makes no sense of how it worked out for so long for him. I'm baffled.

the cellar was sound-proof insulated and more than 60m^2 big. There were no windows and the entrance was behind a huge door out of steel. He was giving food to them just during the night and was doing the groceries miles away from their hometown. The youngest children(5 years old) never saw daylight till yesterday

hablo
Apr 28th, 2008, 06:40 PM
the cellar was sound-proof insulated and more than 60m^2 big. There were no windows and the entrance was behind a huge door out of steel. He was giving food to them just during the night and was doing the groceries miles away from their hometown. The youngest children(5 years old) never saw daylight till yesterday

Oh my ... so I guess it is possible that she never knew. :eek:

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean what mother would allow this to happen to her daughter? :help:

Dodoboy.
Apr 28th, 2008, 07:19 PM
:bigcry:

Just so disturbing.

Dave.
Apr 28th, 2008, 07:37 PM
I read about this in the paper today..truly shocking. I can't believe someone would and more worringly, could do this for so long. I am surprised the wife didn't know anything, that's a bit suspicous but she hasen't been proven guilty so I go with that.


Even though this man is evil and what he did was disgusting, the most horrifying thought to me is that he was the only one who knew about it. If the father had got run over by a bus or something, these people would have been locked up forever and probably would have died of starvation or something. I don't even want to think about that.

Apoleb
Apr 28th, 2008, 07:53 PM
This is just a horrific story. The woman hasn't seen daylight in 20 years. :sad:

hablo
Apr 28th, 2008, 08:25 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080428.whorror0428/BNStory/International/home


Austrian 'admits' abusing daughter

VERONIKA OLEKSYN AND WILLIAM J. KOLE

Associated Press

April 28, 2008 at 12:59 PM EDT

The Globe and Mail

AMSTETTEN, Austria —

A man has confessed to imprisoning his daughter for 24 years in a windowless cell with a soundproofed door and fathering seven children with her including three who "never saw sunlight," police said Monday.

The man, now 73, also told investigators that he tossed the body of one of the children in an incinerator when the infant died shortly after birth, said Franz Polzer, head of the Lower Austrian Bureau of Criminal Affairs.

"We are being confronted with an unfathomable crime," Interior Minister Guenther Platter said.

The daughter, who is now 42, had been missing since 1984 and was found by police in the town of Amstetten on Saturday evening after police received a tip. She and her children have been placed in psychiatric care.

Police on Monday released several photos showing parts of the cramped basement cell, with a small bathroom and a narrow passageway leading to a tiny bedroom. Investigators said an electronic keyless-entry system apparently kept the daughter from escaping from the cell, which was made of solid reinforced concrete.

The suspect, identified by authorities as Josef F., was expected to appear in court later Monday.

"He admitted that he locked his daughter, who was 18 at the time, in the cellar, that he repeatedly had sex with her, and that he is the father of her seven children," Mr. Polzer told The Associated Press.

Three of the surviving children lived with the grandparents and were registered with authorities. The other three apparently were held captive in the cellar with their mother, Mr. Polzer told reporters.

Hans-Heinz Lenze, a senior local official, said the suspect's wife apparently had "no idea" of what went on and was devastated.

"You have to imagine that this woman's world fell apart," he said.

Austrians — still scandalized by a 2006 case involving a young woman who was kidnapped and imprisoned in a basement cell outside Vienna for more than eight years — expressed disbelief at the latest case.

"The entire nation must ask itself just what is fundamentally going wrong," the newspaper Der Standard said Monday in a commentary.

Guenter Pramreiter, who owns a bakery just down the street, told The Associated Press that the suspect and his wife would regularly buy bread and rolls, though never in large quantities.

"They appeared normal, just like any other family," Mr. Pramreiter said. "I'm totally shocked, this was next door. It's terrible."

The case unfolded after a gravely ill teenager was found unconscious on April 19 in the building where her grandparents live, and taken to a hospital in the town of Amstetten, about 100 kilometres west of Vienna. Authorities publicly appealed for the child's mother to come forward to help diagnose the young woman's condition.

After receiving a tip, police picked up the 42-year-old woman — identified as Elisabeth F. — and her father on Saturday close to the hospital.

Police said Elisabeth F. appeared "greatly disturbed" during questioning. She agreed to talk only after authorities assured her she would no longer have to have contact with her father and that her children would be cared for.

On Sunday evening, police said investigators had found the area where Elisabeth and three of the children were held captive. Investigators said the rooms were at most 5 feet 6 inches feet high. The area had a TV and small hot plates for cooking.

In a chronology of events outlined in a police statement, authorities said Elisabeth F. told them her father began sexually abusing her when she was 11. She told police that some years later in 1984, he sedated her, handcuffed her and locked her in the cellar.

Police said a letter written by Elisabeth had apparently surfaced a month after her disappearance, asking her parents not to search for her.

The Austria Press Agency reported that the surviving children are three boys and three girls, the youngest of whom is 5. DNA tests were expected to determine whether Josef F. is the father of the children.

Sunday's developments recalled another case that shocked Austrians in the summer of 2006, when a young woman escaped after being largely confined to a tiny underground dungeon in a quiet Vienna suburb for more than eight years.

Natascha Kampusch was 10 years old when she was kidnapped in Vienna on her way to school in March 1998. Her abductor, Wolfgang Priklopil, threw himself in front of a train just hours after her dramatic escape.

Ms. Kampusch, now 20, issued a statement Monday saying she wanted to contact Elisabeth to offer emotional and financial help.


This man is so old already.

It's too bad he didn't get caught much earlier ... :fiery:

Denise4925
Apr 28th, 2008, 08:40 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44607000/gif/_44607277_aus_horror_house466.gif

Okay, but where was the mother during all this construction going on in the house in the cellar? Why didn't she ever go to the cellar or even wonder why a steel door was down there with only him knowing the combination to the lock? Surely curiosity had to get the best of her when he was out of the house. What about the children they adopted being curious? I mean come on...

Denise4925
Apr 28th, 2008, 08:41 PM
I=

Even though this man is evil and what he did was disgusting, the most horrifying thought to me is that he was the only one who knew about it. If the father had got run over by a bus or something, these people would have been locked up forever and probably would have died of starvation or something. I don't even want to think about that.

This is what I was thinking. What if he had a heart attack or something. No one would know they were down there. :eek:

JAMESYBABY!
Apr 28th, 2008, 08:47 PM
this is so sick,, kill the bastard

drake3781
Apr 28th, 2008, 08:59 PM
As horrible as it is to imagine what the now-42 year old woman has gone through, can you imagine an 18 year old boy and a 19 year old girl who have NEVER seen daylight?

Apparently they were all really pale from never having any sun on their skin.

PRobably the father started abusing the granddaughter, too.

Another thing I thought of is that those children must have been right there when he was having sex with their mother, because there is no separate area for them to go to. So they would have seen/heard everything, every time.

Also the articles described the daughter's (the 42 year old) condition now as "very disturbed".

mykarma
Apr 28th, 2008, 09:00 PM
I read about this in the paper today..truly shocking. I can't believe someone would and more worringly, could do this for so long. I am surprised the wife didn't know anything, that's a bit suspicous but she hasen't been proven guilty so I go with that.


Even though this man is evil and what he did was disgusting, the most horrifying thought to me is that he was the only one who knew about it. If the father had got run over by a bus or something, these people would have been locked up forever and probably would have died of starvation or something. I don't even want to think about that.
I was thinking the same thing and can only imagine what the wife is going through. :sad:

ViennaCalling
Apr 28th, 2008, 09:10 PM
And again a cellar in Lower Austria :tape: WTF is wrong with some Austrians? :o

BTW ... Natascha Kampusch is very angry for about this news :lol: :p j/k Now nobody´s interested in her anymore :devil:

Michael!
Apr 28th, 2008, 09:33 PM
And again a cellar in Lower Austria :tape: WTF is wrong with some Austrians? :o

BTW ... Natascha Kampusch is very angry for about this news :lol: :p j/k Now nobody´s interested in her anymore :devil:

:haha:

Natascha will now attend at Autria´s Next Topmodel and she wants to make another LateNight Talkshow :tape:


Some Austrians are really :smash:
Poor woman, I hope she and her children find her way back to a pretty normal life :awww:

TheBoiledEgg
Apr 28th, 2008, 09:52 PM
what i dont get is that this was an old guy of 73

and inside was his daughter (42) and two grown children of 19, and 18

couldnt they ambush him as he was about to enter or leave ??

hablo
Apr 28th, 2008, 11:36 PM
Okay, but where was the mother during all this construction going on in the house in the cellar? Why didn't she ever go to the cellar or even wonder why a steel door was down there with only him knowing the combination to the lock? Surely curiosity had to get the best of her when he was out of the house. What about the children they adopted being curious? I mean come on...

Here are more details :

Austrian house of horrors

Apr 28, 2008 05:40 PM
Veronika Oleksyn
William J. Kole
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

AMSTETTEN, Austria – The children locked in the basement never saw the light of day for years.

A retired electrician has confessed to imprisoning his daughter for 24 years and fathering seven children with her in a windowless cell sealed by an electronic keyless-entry system, police said today.


One of the children died in infancy and was tossed into the furnace of what stunned Austrians have labelled a “house of horrors,” officials said.

The suspect owned the grey stone apartment building, lived there with his family, and rented the other units to relatives.

Austria is still scandalized by a 2006 case involving a girl who was kidnapped and imprisoned in a basement outside Vienna for more than eight years, and residents of this working class town west of the capital were puzzled as to how the latest instance could go undetected for so long.

Questions are being raised as to how the suspect — identified as Josef Fritzl, 73 — deceived neighbours, social workers and police for so long.

“How is it possible that no one knew anything for 24 years?” asked Anita Fabian, a teacher in Amstetten. “This was not possible without accomplices.”

Fritzl was placed in pretrial detention and faces up to 15 years in prison if charged, tried and convicted on rape charges, the most grave of his alleged offences under Austrian law.

Police released Fritzl’s full name and photograph at a news conference today after his identity was widely reported by media in Austria and elsewhere in Europe.

Fritzl was born in 1935 and was a young child when the Nazis annexed Austria before the Second World War.

His daughter, now 42, was 18 when she was imprisoned in the cell constructed deep beneath the family’s apartment in the building, said Franz Polzer, head of the Lower Austrian Bureau of Criminal Affairs.

“He admitted that he locked his daughter . . . in the cellar, that he repeatedly had sex with her, and that he is the father of her seven children,” Polzer told The Associated Press.

According to police, Elisabeth said she gave birth to twins in 1996 but one died several days later.

Police said the surviving children are three boys and three girls, the youngest of whom is five. The oldest child is 19. DNA tests are expected to determine whether Fritzl is the father of the children, as he claims.

Investigators said they are trying to determine how the victims could have been hidden away for so long from other families in the building and everyone else in the town of 23,000 people.

Fritzl “managed to deceive everyone,” including his wife, Rosemarie, who apparently was unaware of the existence of the children in the cellar, Polzer said.

Fritzl had seven other children with Rosemarie, police said.

Officials said three of the secret children — aged 19, 18 and five — “never saw sunlight” until they were freed a few days ago.

Polzer told reporters that Fritzl was an authoritarian who took care never to allow anyone near the cellar. Hans-Heinz Lenze, a senior local official, said experts were trying to figure out if anything could have been heard beyond the cell’s padded, reinforced concrete walls.


Polzer said investigators believe Fritzl acted alone, but appealed to the public to come forward with information.

The daughter, Elisabeth, had been missing since 1984 and authorities said her father had concocted a story that she had joined a cult and disappeared. She was found by police in Amstetten on Saturday evening after police received a tip.


Police released several photos showing parts of the cramped basement cell, with a gaily decorated small bathroom and a narrow passageway leading to a tiny bedroom. Investigators said the keyless-entry system apparently kept the daughter from escaping.


Three of the children lived with the grandparents and were registered with authorities. Fritzl and his wife registered those children with authorities, saying that they had found them outside their home in 1993, 1994 and 1997, at least one with a note from Elisabeth saying she could not care for the child.


Authorities said the victims and Fritzl’s wife were under psychiatric care in an undisclosed location.

Lenze said the 5-year-old, a boy, appeared “cheerful.”

“Of course, they are very pale,” he added.

The shocking discoveries recalled the case from summer 2006, when Natascha Kampusch escaped after being largely confined to a tiny underground dungeon in a Vienna suburb for more than eight years.

Kampusch was 10 when she was kidnapped in Vienna on her way to school in 1998. Her abductor, Wolfgang Priklopil, threw himself in front of a train hours after her escape.

Kampusch, now 20, issued a statement today, saying she wanted to contact Elisabeth to offer emotional and financial help.

Questions were being raised in Austria about how another similar case could have happened.

“The entire nation must ask itself just what is fundamentally going wrong,” the newspaper Der Standard said in a commentary.

Guenter Pramreiter, who owns a bakery just down the street from Fritzl and his wife, said the couple would regularly buy bread and rolls, though never in large quantities.

“They appeared normal, just like any other family,” he said. ``I’m totally shocked. This was next door. It’s terrible.”

The case unfolded after the eldest of the secret children, a 19-year-old, was found unconscious and gravely ill April 19 in the building and was taken to a hospital. Authorities publicly appealed for her mother to come forward to help diagnose her condition.

After receiving a tip, police picked up Elisabeth and her father Saturday near the hospital. Fritzl freed the three captive children that same day, Polzer said.

Police said Elisabeth appeared “greatly disturbed” during questioning. She agreed to talk only after authorities assured her she would no longer have to have contact with her father and that her children would be cared for.

Investigators said the area where she and three of the children were held included rooms whose height did not exceed 1.6 metres. The area had a TV and small hot plates for cooking.

Authorities said Elisabeth told them her father began sexually abusing her when she was 11. She told police that in 1984, he sedated her, handcuffed her and locked her in the cellar.

Police said a letter written by Elisabeth had apparently surfaced a month after her disappearance, asking her parents not to search for her.


Lenze said that because the couple had custody of the children, social workers made a “considerable” number of visits to the family.

“Interestingly, the father was seldom present during such visits,” he said.

The social workers found nothing out of the ordinary, reporting that Fritzl’s wife was attentive, the three children were doing well in school and clubs, and that all of them played musical instruments.

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/419151

kwilliams
Apr 28th, 2008, 11:51 PM
I can't believe he threw one of the babies in an incinerator. I can't believe it even though he is clearly sick beyong belief. It makes you think what crazy stuff might be going on closer to home, obviously nothing like this because it's one of a kind but people sadly do f*cked up things all over the world.

Denise4925
Apr 29th, 2008, 12:17 AM
Thanks Hablo, but I'm still curious as to how he constructed that area in the cellar without anyone questioning what he was doing and witnesses seeing the construction. I'm sure he did it before he drugged the daughter and took her down there, but I wonder what story he gave for doing it. However, being an abusive authoritarian, no one in the family probably dared ask.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 29th, 2008, 12:20 AM
Flowers In The Basement doesn't seem to be as good as Flowers in the Attic.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Apr 29th, 2008, 12:43 AM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44606000/jpg/_44606762_joseffafp226b.jpg

His face is enough to make anyone look sick and disgusted. :tape::help:

I wished he be used as a punching bag, hung outside him home with the words "This is the F****r who raped his own daughter and bore 7 children", so that everyone who goes pass him can release their anger over this case on his sorry arse. :fiery:

slamchamp
Apr 29th, 2008, 02:42 AM
I thought a kids whose dad is his/her mom's father would be mentally reatrded or something like that. Are those kids normal? I can't believe one is 19 and the other 18! f*ck!:tape:

drake3781
Apr 29th, 2008, 03:26 AM
This and the previous one are going to start giving Austria a bad reputation as a place of pervy, evil men. Seriously, I have already gotten the notion a few times today. Could be bad for business, tourism, maybe even politics.

drake3781
Apr 29th, 2008, 03:28 AM
I thought a kids whose dad is his/her mom's father would be mentally reatrded or something like that. Are those kids normal? I can't believe one is 19 and the other 18! f*ck!:tape:

I did see Down's Syndrome mentioned somewhere.... would have to check if it was a factual reference in a news report, or just a speculative comment in a message or comment somewhere.

hablo
Apr 29th, 2008, 03:30 AM
I did read about Down's Syndrome somewhere too.

drake3781
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:02 AM
The police said that three of the children "never saw sunlight" until they were freed over the weekend.
The dungeon in which they lived was so small that the older ones had to watch as his father delivered his daughter’s subsequent children. Presumably they also had to watch as he had intercourse with his daughter to beget them – she claims that he repeatedly raped her – and regularly beat her. The dungeon contained one padded room, its walls and floor covered in rubber, the purpose of which is still unclear.
Yesterday the police described the revelations as "one of Austria’s all-time worst crimes". Guenther Platter, the country’s Interior Minister, called it "unfathomable".

drake3781
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:03 AM
All that time Elisabeth and her expanding family were living in the dungeon. It was hidden behind a 1m-high iron door that could be opened with a numbered code which only Mr F knew. The door was itself concealed behind shelves, and the police said that he used to tell his captive children that if anything happened to him, then they would die in the dungeon.

drake3781
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:08 AM
I did see Down's Syndrome mentioned somewhere.... would have to check if it was a factual reference in a news report, or just a speculative comment in a message or comment somewhere.

I did read about Down's Syndrome somewhere too.


Hhmmm but I guess not. Long article here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3835640.ece does not mention that, and it does state:


One official said: "As we were driving with one of the boys towards the hospital he told me he was very happy to be driven in a car. He had seen cars on TV and always wanted to have a ride in one.
"I could not detect any obvious mental or physical malfunctions in him or his sister."

Apoleb
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:21 AM
This feels like it's straight out of a horror movie. But it still ended up with a somewhat happy ending. Imagine this woman and the kids being held captive alone for 20+ years in a freakin neighbourhood below her mother's apartment, and being repeatedly beaten and abused since she was 18. I would be amazed if she can make it out as a fully functionning adult.

What I'm wondering is why did the father let her out? Did he have that much trust in her that she will ultimately come back to the cellar or he simply thought that at 73 there's no use of continuing this?

Apoleb
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:24 AM
This and the previous one are going to start giving Austria a bad reputation as a place of pervy, evil men. Seriously, I have already gotten the notion a few times today. Could be bad for business, tourism, maybe even politics.

Umm, it would be pretty stupid for anyone to feel this way. This is 2 out of how many million Austrian men? The US has by far the highest rate of freaky serial killers, and I don't think people think of American men in general as psychotic and evil.

gotthebend
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:49 AM
How can her mother not know anything?
Her husband must have spent heaps of time down there, and yet she has never once followed him or tried to get an answer out of her husband's mouth?:(

Anyway, I suggest that anyone who's concerned about "pedophiles, rapists, and other sex offenders" read a book called Predators by Dr. Anna C. Salter.
In her book she states the obvious: Normal people just wanna evade the kind of ugly crimes, and most of the time people don't pay attention to it. Sex offenders, on the other hand, are a clever species who know human nature better than everyone else.:help:
This book is a depressing read.

SOA_MC
Apr 29th, 2008, 04:00 PM
DNA 'backs Austrian incest claim'
http://i26.tinypic.com/50l6d4.jpg
Questions have been asked as to how Mr Fritzl could keep the cellar a secret

DNA evidence supports an Austrian man's confession that he fathered six children by his daughter while keeping her prisoner for 24 years, police say.

Lower Austria police chief Franz Polzer said Josef Fritzl had completely deceived his wife, his family and neighbours in the town of Amstetten.

He said the 73-year-old had forced his daughter, Elisabeth, to write letters saying she had run away.

Mr Fritzl was earlier detained for a further 14 days by a regional court.

He said nothing to the court in the provincial capital of St Poelton on the advice of his lawyer, who met him earlier this morning.

'Decisive evidence'

Speaking at a news conference, Mr Polzer said police investigators had confirmed statements made by Elisabeth, and the confession Mr Fritzl had made during questioning.

"The DNA tests provided decisive evidence that the six children that Elisabeth gave birth to have the same father," he said.

"You can be sure that this man left nothing undone in order to deceive the family, his wife, the relatives, the children and everybody around him.

"He had no scruples to use every possible means to deceive the public and cover up his crime," he added.

Police are continuing to search the family house, both in the cellar where Elisabeth and three of her children were kept hostage and also above ground, where Mr Fritzl lived with his wife and three of Elisabeth's children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7373689.stm

rrfnpump
Apr 29th, 2008, 05:21 PM
I thought a kids whose dad is his/her mom's father would be mentally reatrded or something like that. Are those kids normal? I can't believe one is 19 and the other 18! f*ck!:tape:

http://de.news.yahoo.com/dpa2/20080429/twl-hintergrund-die-illegitimen-kinder-d-107395c.html


Wien/Hamburg (dpa) - Der Inzest-Täter Josef Fritzl zeugte sieben Kinder mit seiner Tochter Elisabeth, die 1984 als vermisst gemeldet wurde. In Wirklichkeit wurde sie aber 24 Jahre lang in einem Kellerverlies gefangen gehalten und sexuell missbraucht.

Eines der sieben Kinder starb bei der Geburt, drei der Kinder wurden wie ihre Mutter im Keller gefangen gehalten und die anderen drei zog Fritzl mit seiner Ehefrau als seine Ziehkinder auf. dpa dokumentiert das bislang bekannte über die Kinder:

Kerstin (19): Die älteste Tochter, die Josef Fritzl mit seiner Tochter Elisabeth zeugte. Die junge Frau wurde vergangene Woche schwer erkrankt ins Krankenhaus gebracht, wodurch die Aufdeckung des Falles möglich wurde. Sie liegt derzeit in kritischem Zustand in der Klinik.

Stefan (18): Der junge Mann lebte seit seiner Geburt im Keller. Er ist volljährig und damit prinzipiell für sich selbst verantwortlich. Nach Aussagen der Ermittler kann er lesen und schreiben, wenn auch reduziert.

Felix (5): Der Junge steht in der Obhut seiner Mutter Elisabeth, die für ihn verantwortlich ist. Wie seine beiden Geschwister aus dem Keller sei er blass, möglicherweise ist er motorisch beeinträchtigt.

Lisa (15): Das erste vermeintliche Findelkind. Im Mai 1993 wird das Mädchen im Alter von neun Monaten im Mehrparteienhaus der Familie entdeckt. In einem handschriftlichen Brief der vermissten Elisabeth steht, sie habe keinen Platz für ein weiteres Kind und gebe es daher in die Obhut der Familie. Josef Fritzl hatte Elisabeth vermutlich gezwungen, ein solches Schreiben zu verfassen. Das Ehepaar Fritzl adoptiert Lisa.

Monika (14): Das Mädchen wird im Dezember 1994 unter gleichen Umständen bei der Familie «entdeckt». Es ist zu diesem Zeitpunkt zehn Monate alt. Das Kind wolle bald wieder zur Schule, hieß es von den Ermittlern. Das Sorgerecht liege bei Josef Fritzl.

Alexander (12 oder 13): Er wird im August 1997 ebenfalls im Haus der Großeltern «gefunden». Er ist 15 Monate alt. Sein Zwillingsbruder war nach den bisherigen Erkenntnissen der Polizei kurz nach der Geburt gestorben und von Josef Fritzl verbrannt worden. Für Alexander hat die Jugendwohlfahrt das Sorgerecht.


Seems like three are pretty normal, whereas the others are mentally and motorly affected. However, I am sure all will suffer from diseases in the future. :(

Sick stuff. :(

drake3781
Apr 29th, 2008, 05:43 PM
quick translation:


Vienna/Hamburg (dpa) - the Inzest author Josef Fritzl fathered seven children with his daughter Elizabeth, who was announced missing 1984.
Kept in reality it however 24 years long abused in one cellar-read out imprisoned and sexually.

One of the seven children died with the birth, three of the children like their nut/mother in the cellar imprisoned was held and the other three pulled Fritzl with his wife than its pulling children on dpa documented that so far admitted over the children:

Kerstin (19): The oldest daughter, who was born to Josef Fritzl with his daughter Elizabeth. The young woman was brought past week heavily gotten sick in the hospital, whereby uncovering of the case became possible. She lies at present in critical state in the hospital.

Stefan (18): The young man lived since his birth in the cellar. He is responsible of age and thus in principle for itself. According to statements of the Ermittler he can read and write, even if reduces.

Felix (5): The boy is located in the Obhut his nut/mother Elizabeth, who is responsible for him. As his two brothers and sisters from the cellar he is palely, possibly he is motor impaired.

Lisa (15): The first alleged Findelkind. In May 1993 the girl at the age is discovered by nine months in the multi-party house of the family. In a handwritten letter of missed Elizabeth is located, she has no place for a further child and gives it therefore to the Obhut of the family. Josef Fritzl had probably forced Elizabeth to write such a letter. The married couple Fritzl adopts Lisa.

Monika (14): The girl "is discovered" in December 1994 under same circumstances at the family. She is ten months old at this time. The child wants soon again to the school, was called it by the Ermittlern. The custody is with Josef Fritzl.

Alexander (12 or 13): He "is found" in August 1997 likewise in the house of grandparents. He is is 15 months old. His twin brother had died briefly after the past realizations of the police after the birth and by Josef Fritzl had been burned. For Alexander the youth welfare has the custody

gentenaire
Apr 29th, 2008, 07:58 PM
It's interesting that Alexander was under state custody. Why didn't the authorities look further into where the mother was?

TomasUli
Apr 29th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I think the question in everyone's head is... "did he sexually abuse those children?". I wouldn't be surprised if he did... from what I read, he started molesting his own daughter when she was only 11. :help:

hablo
Apr 29th, 2008, 08:53 PM
It's interesting that Alexander was under state custody. Why didn't the authorities look further into where the mother was?

I find it strange how the authorities accepted so easily that the daughter had run away and joined some cult and then decided to drop off her children at her parents door step. They even had social workers come by and no one noticed anything was wrong... :help:

*Jool*
Apr 29th, 2008, 09:30 PM
YOU , SICK BASTARD, Fritzl ! :shout:

slamchamp
Apr 30th, 2008, 02:18 AM
I'd reaaally like to see a picture of one the kids

Miranda
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:36 AM
:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry::sobbing: one of the saddest story i have ever heard, how can this bastard did these things to his own daugther, he should get the same punishment, being shut into a smaller cellear for the remaning of his life, i don't believe that his wife knows nothing, it just shows that she does not care for her own daughether, thats why very sad ........

Andy.
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:41 AM
He should be kept in a tiny little cell big enough for him to sit and squat in but not tall enough for him to stand and fed just enough to survive till the day her dies. What a monster.

VRee_Willario
Apr 30th, 2008, 11:57 AM
I'm afraid there might have been someone /some people locked up in a cellar somewhere in the world for decades and they were never found and there is surely people locked up now and abused like in this case:(

A Magicman
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Austrian incest has a long tradition. The world got blessed with a certain A. Hitler who was the child of a man and his niece.

His dad's father was his mother's grandfather.

VRee_Willario
Apr 30th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Belgium is also quite known for these cases:o

hablo
Apr 30th, 2008, 01:36 PM
Austrian incest has a long tradition. The world got blessed with a certain A. Hitler who was the child of a man and his niece.

His dad's father was his mother's grandfather.

This is very confusing. :scared:

SOA_MC
Apr 30th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Mother and children have been reunited at bottom of this report:awww: Finally some good news from this very sad story

Austria 'sex captor' stays silent
Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who is accused of keeping his daughter captive in a cellar for 24 years, refuses to answer further questions, police say.

They said he had signed a statement admitting imprisoning and raping his daughter and fathering her seven children, but refuses to explain.

The daughter, Elizabeth, has told police she was sexually abused even before being incarcerated.

The case of the 73-year-old Josef Fritzl has drawn world media attention.

Describing the "abominable events" as linked to one individual case, Austria's Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said he planned to launch an image campaign to restore the country's reputation abroad.

Psychiatric tests

Franz Prucher, head of police in Lower Austria, said police would be investigating whether Mr Fritzl had committed any further crimes.

"We have to bring light to every aspect of the suspect's life. It is our duty to investigate the concurrent circumstances that made it possible that such crime, which shocked all of us deeply, could happen," he told a press conference in Amstetten.

Mr Fritzl faces up to 15 years in prison if he is convicted of raping his daughter, among other offences.

Officials are also considering charges of "murder through failure to act" which carries a longer sentence, in connection with the death of one of the seven children he fathered with Elisabeth.

Mr Fritzl has admitted to disposing of the body of the newborn in an incinerator shortly after the birth.

His lawyer, Rudolf Mayer, has told the BBC his client will undergo a series of psychiatric and psychological tests.

He says the tests will be crucial in determining the extent of Mr Fritzl's guilt and his penalty.

"This case certainly requires a thorough psychiatric and psychological examination. We need to establish if he can be considered responsible for his actions," Mr Mayer told BBC News.

Children playing

Elizabeth and three of the children were held captive in a windowless cellar under the family home.

Mr Fritzl's alleged crimes came to light when Elisabeth's eldest daughter Kerstin, 19, became seriously ill.

She was allowed out of the cellar and admitted to hospital in Amstetten.

Police then issued an appeal to Elisabeth Fritzl to contact them about her daughter, and later picked up Mr Fritzl and Elisabeth near the hospital.

Kerstin remains in a coma, and doctors describe her condition as serious but stable.

The other children who were not confined to the cellar lived an apparently normal life with Mr Fritzl as his "grandchildren" in the upper sections of the same house.

Officials said Elisabeth, now 42, and two of the three children who had lived with her in the cellar - the 18- and five-year-old brothers - had an "astonishing" reunion with her other children on Tuesday.
They are now being cared for in a psychiatric clinic in Amstetten-Mauer. Berthold Kepplinger, the director of the clinic, said their psychological state had stabilised:

"The young people can play, they can run around, they have their personal toys, they have everything that they are used to, and a number of our team are looking after them and are caring for them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7375904.stm

ViennaCalling
May 1st, 2008, 09:00 AM
Austrian incest has a long tradition. The world got blessed with a certain A. Hitler who was the child of a man and his niece.

His dad's father was his mother's grandfather.

:weirdo: Yeah, Austria is an Incest-country :rolleyes: :help:

Natalicious
May 1st, 2008, 09:05 AM
Austrian incest has a long tradition. The world got blessed with a certain A. Hitler who was the child of a man and his niece.

His dad's father was his mother's grandfather.

and that come's from a german, how ironic

----------------


i'm glad they found the kids, even after 24 years.
i am sure there are more kids and women locked in cellars all over the world and we will probably never find them again.

this is a sad and cruel story, and Josef F. seems to have no fear from anything.
he may has killed a 17 year old girl too. and when he was younger he was already in jail for rapping a girl.

Brαm
May 1st, 2008, 11:04 AM
Belgium is also quite known for these cases:o
It is? I have never heard of a similar incest case over here :shrug:

VRee_Willario
May 1st, 2008, 11:11 AM
I have. The man who locked up several girls in a cellar in Belgium and abused them a few years ago:( He kidnapped the girls in his van

Natalicious
May 1st, 2008, 11:13 AM
i think bram was refering to inzest cases

VRee_Willario
May 1st, 2008, 11:14 AM
yeah but I meant sexual abuse of children. in Belgium there's been some famous cases like this :scared: :sad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/05/dutroux.featuresreview

By the way I'm not from Austria.

Natalicious
May 1st, 2008, 01:05 PM
cases like this are probably all over the world, we just dont know from them yet

drake3781
May 1st, 2008, 09:12 PM
I don't really agree with the authorities making such a big deal about the fact that he disposed of the dead baby's body in an incinerator. I mean, something had to be done with it and I don't see anything wrong with that option. The other stuff is so much more horrible that it is pathetic to dwell so much on that one little point that's not so bad.

A few other things I read
- The father had threatened all of them in the cellar that he would gas them if they misbehaved or tried to escape.
- The father told authorities that the door would automatically open if he were gone for a long time - and authorities are analyzing the door to figure out how it works and if that is true.
- A neighbor says the father would not let anybody in the garden or the cellar or to take pictures of the house. Even his wife was not allowed there to bring him coffee or anything. And he would go there in the evenings and sometimes stay all night. He said he was working on something for his work.
- A neighbor says he saw the man's son going into the cellar. So this son may be investigated for knowing about it and/or participating. I guess he would be the sister of the 42 year old who was the original victim.

VRee_Willario
May 1st, 2008, 09:31 PM
cases like this are probably all over the world, we just dont know from them yet

Yeah, yeah...;)

SOA_MC
May 1st, 2008, 09:52 PM
- A neighbor says he saw the man's son going into the cellar. So this son may be investigated for knowing about it and/or participating. I guess he would be the sister of the 42 year old who was the original victim.

He would be one of the children of the 42 year old and the brother and sisters of the others locked in the cellar. If this is true it means he knew that his grandfather and his father are actually the same person:tape:

Nemo_Kool
May 1st, 2008, 09:53 PM
you just cant really imagine why anyone would do this...whats even more sickening is that whilst the kids hadn't seen the light of day he was holidaying on a beach in Thailand...sickening there is no punishment severe enough.

SOA_MC
May 1st, 2008, 09:58 PM
you just cant really imagine why anyone would do this...whats even more sickening is that whilst the kids hadn't seen the light of day he was holidaying on a beach in Thailand...sickening there is no punishment severe enough.

You do know what happens in jail to people that harm childern don't you:hehehe:

He will be getting what he deserves:boxing:

drake3781
May 1st, 2008, 10:55 PM
You do know what happens in jail to people that harm childern don't you:hehehe:

He will be getting what he deserves:boxing:

....... well............. there is no way close for him to get what he deserves.

Imagine the crime of - just once - forcibly raping a woman, and forcing her to become pregnant, go through nine months' unwanted preganacy, and childbirth.

Horrible crime that would alter the woman's life permanently and possibly ruin it for all intents and purposes.

And this is maybe about 1% of the totality of what this man did.

Miranda
May 2nd, 2008, 04:53 AM
why the maximum of penalty is just 15 years in prison? no life sentence? no officen, but i think the western countries is not strict enough for criminals, the bastards may think: no matter what bad things i did, only 15 years and i got my freedom, this indirectly encourage the criminals ......

ViennaCalling
May 2nd, 2008, 07:25 AM
why the maximum of penalty is just 15 years in prison? no life sentence? no officen, but i think the western countries is not strict enough for criminals, the bastards may think: no matter what bad things i did, only 15 years and i got my freedom, this indirectly encourage the criminals ......

That´s right. I study law in Austria and practically all tax dodgers have to go to prison for few years and murderers have to go "only" to a mental hospital because they are insane :o

There is something wrong here. But i guess in France, Germany, Italy .... the situation isn´t different.

Miranda
May 2nd, 2008, 10:37 AM
too much human rights are given in Western countries, as opposed to western people saying chinese govt gives its people too little human rights, i am not saying the chiense govt is right, the lack of freedom in speech should be critiised, but sometimes we need to be more severe towards the criiminals so that less people have guts to do bad things ....

and i have to laugh at this insane thing, many people are over-abusing it, the well known milkshake murdered in HK is appeling her case, saying that her mental was not in order when she murdered her hubby, but actually even a 10 years old kid knew that she did it intentionally, if her mental was wrong, how could she had the energy to search in the medicine website, and using them to drug her hubby into amnesia before she knocked him with an ornament?

this woman is one of the dumbiest murderer i have ever seen, who would believe her story that her hubby was using a baseball cab to threaten her and she could get the better of him by using this short and small ornament? and who would be foolish enough to hide the corpse into her own storage room and even ordered the caretakers to carry the body for her? but however she is good at telling fake stories :rolleyes::rolleyes:

if everyone use this mental insane thing to defend themselves,. this world will totally be out of control, when everyone knows that they need not face any punishment even if they kill people ....

That´s right. I study law in Austria and practically all tax dodgers have to go to prison for few years and murderers have to go "only" to a mental hospital because they are insane :o

There is something wrong here. But i guess in France, Germany, Italy .... the situation isn´t different.

homogenius
May 2nd, 2008, 10:50 AM
That´s right. I study law in Austria and practically all tax dodgers have to go to prison for few years and murderers have to go "only" to a mental hospital because they are insane :o

There is something wrong here. But i guess in France, Germany, Italy .... the situation isn´t different.

In France, most of the murderers are condemened and put in jail.

gentenaire
May 2nd, 2008, 11:36 AM
I don't really agree with the authorities making such a big deal about the fact that he disposed of the dead baby's body in an incinerator. I mean, something had to be done with it and I don't see anything wrong with that option. The other stuff is so much more horrible that it is pathetic to dwell so much on that one little point that's not so bad.

Little point? If he'd bothered to go down to the cellar when his daughter was giving birth, that baby would have survived. He didn't see his daughter until three days after she'd given birth to the twins. The baby needed medical intervention and didn't get it and as a result it died.

Denise4925
May 2nd, 2008, 10:07 PM
too much human rights are given in Western countries, as opposed to western people saying chinese govt gives its people too little human rights, i am not saying the chiense govt is right, the lack of freedom in speech should be critiised, but sometimes we need to be more severe towards the criiminals so that less people have guts to do bad things ....



What are you talking about? US prisons are overcrowded now with criminals with multiple life sentences. In many of our states we have the death penalty as a punishment for capital crimes.

We have human rights because even though they are criminals, they are still human and deserved to be treated as such. There has to be safety and order. If you don't treat inmates with humanity they become even worse. If you treat a person like an animal they become animals. Plus, by being treated humanely, it cuts down on prison violence between inmates and prison guards and officials. Also, they have to keep the prisons somewhat clean and free from germs to cut down on infectious diseases and deaths, which could spread to the outside world and become an epidemic.

So, human rights are paramount to keeping order in the prison systems. There was a time when prisoners in the US were not treated so humanely and as a result there were prison riots, escape, injuries and death of innocent people.

Experimentee
May 5th, 2008, 03:09 PM
why the maximum of penalty is just 15 years in prison? no life sentence? no officen, but i think the western countries is not strict enough for criminals, the bastards may think: no matter what bad things i did, only 15 years and i got my freedom, this indirectly encourage the criminals ......

I agree that the penalties seem too lenient.

This guy apparently broke into a place and raped a girl in 1967 and he only served one and a half years in jail for it!

If his punishment had been more severe, maybe he would not have had the chance to do this to his own daughter. He should have at least got 10 years for that first rape crime.

Apoleb
May 5th, 2008, 03:26 PM
It's mind boggling that he's looking to get 15 years in prison when he imprisonned his daughter without access to people and daylight for more than 20 years. Something's utterly wrong with the justice system. He should get at the very least a life sentence, and personally, I wouldn't be up in arms if he's executed.

As for the "insane" bullshit, someone who could lead a normal life in every aspect and cover the kidnapping from his wife living on top of the cellar is not insane. He's psychologically disturbed, yes. Still, can't see why he would be exempt from moral responsibility.

hablo
May 5th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I agree that the penalties seem too lenient.

This guy apparently broke into a place and raped a girl in 1967 and he only served one and a half years in jail for it!

If his punishment had been more severe, maybe he would not have had the chance to do this to his own daughter. He should have at least got 10 years for that first rape crime.

Yeah, I read the judge thought he needed to be reunited as quickly as possible with his wife and kids. :help:

drake3781
May 5th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Here are some facts I learned about everybody's condition.

The older girl (19, in a medically induced coma for a kidney ailment and seizures) has no teeth. The others' teeth are decayed from never getting dentistry.

The 42 year old looks like an old woman. She also is stooped over from never being able to stand up straight for all those years.

The two boys speaks some words that their mother taught them, but they also use a language of grunts and coos between themselves.

Infiniti2001
May 5th, 2008, 10:28 PM
I agree that the penalties seem too lenient.

This guy apparently broke into a place and raped a girl in 1967 and he only served one and a half years in jail for it!

If his punishment had been more severe, maybe he would not have had the chance to do this to his own daughter. He should have at least got 10 years for that first rape crime.

Yet wifey stood by his side. I just can't stop thinking that she is partly responsible for what her daughter went through :shrug:

mykarma
May 5th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Here are some facts I learned about everybody's condition.

The older girl (19, in a medically induced coma for a kidney ailment and seizures) has no teeth. The others' teeth are decayed from never getting dentistry.

The 42 year old looks like an old woman. She also is stooped over from never being able to stand up straight for all those years.

The two boys speaks some words that their mother taught them, but they also use a language of grunts and coos between themselves.
I was listening to some show yesterday and the police said the children can speak and that a lot of rumors about the condition of the kids. They interview a old guy from there and he started crying because he felt so badly about what happened to these people. They also said that the only DNA that was found was the father's. Also, the wife's sister said that he was able to get away with this because he's a tyrant and that even she was afraid of him.

They also said that they are considering giving them a new identity and that the mother and daughter have been reunited. This morning the lawyer for the father said that he is claiming insanity. This man was very aware of what he was doing so I don't see how the insanity defense will fly.

TomasUli
May 5th, 2008, 10:48 PM
I don't buy that his wife didn't know what was going on.

I found this on CNN.com:

Investigators believe Fritzl planned to build the cellar as early as 1978, shortly after, according to his daughter, he began raping her at age 11 or 12, said police spokesman Franz Polzer.

The 73-year-old Austrian began building the dungeon as part of an addition to his home that year, and simply added the hidden space -- which was not recorded in any building plans. It took Fritzl until 1983 to finish the addition, Polzer said.http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/05/austria.incest/index.html

So, he built that hidden space for years... and hiw wife never wondered what was going on? and he managed to introduce the beds, toilet, sink, and the rest of the furniture without his wife finding out?

And how the hell did an old man manage to move a 500 kilogram (1000 pound) steel door down to the basement? someone had to help him...

hablo
May 5th, 2008, 10:54 PM
I don't buy that his wife didn't know what was going on.

I found this on CNN.com:



So, he built that hidden space for years... and hiw wife never wondered what was going on? and he managed to introduce the beds, toilet, sink, and the rest of the furniture without his wife finding out?

And how the hell did an old man manage to move a 500 kilogram (1000 pound) steel door down to the basement? someone had to help him...

The fact that she decided to stick around knowing he raped a girl (and tried to rape another one) and spent some time in jail says it all. Some women will stick by their men no matter what.

But I think this man is described as a tyrant (even his sister was scared of him) and she probably had no means to support her kids on her own, maybe that's why she stuck around ?

azdaja
May 5th, 2008, 10:59 PM
Here are some facts I learned about everybody's condition.

The older girl (19, in a medically induced coma for a kidney ailment and seizures) has no teeth. The others' teeth are decayed from never getting dentistry.

The 42 year old looks like an old woman. She also is stooped over from never being able to stand up straight for all those years.

The two boys speaks some words that their mother taught them, but they also use a language of grunts and coos between themselves.
the bit about the language is a sure sign that we're dealing with rumours. there is no way in hell children won't learn to speak if they are growing up with an adult, even though it's possible that their version of the language is different when it gets to grammar and vocabulary. i don't think rumours like that should be spread about the victims. i read the hopsital they are in is under the siege from journalists which is idiotic, really. people should concentrate the negative energy on the idiot, if they must, but they should leave the victims alone.

SOA_MC
May 5th, 2008, 11:10 PM
And how the hell did an old man manage to move a 500 kilogram (1000 pound) steel door down to the basement? someone had to help him...

He probably didn't have his daughter imprisoned in the cellar at the time he put the steel door in

meyerpl
May 6th, 2008, 01:13 AM
I don't think my wife would go along with me having a 1,000 pound steel door in the basement she couldn't look behind.

Apoleb
May 6th, 2008, 01:46 AM
I don't buy that his wife didn't know what was going on.

I found this on CNN.com:



So, he built that hidden space for years... and hiw wife never wondered what was going on? and he managed to introduce the beds, toilet, sink, and the rest of the furniture without his wife finding out?

And how the hell did an old man manage to move a 500 kilogram (1000 pound) steel door down to the basement? someone had to help him...

And add the fact that kids were mysteriously appearing...

I guess I could still imagine why would his wife not know about all this stuff. I guess because of his "tyranny", no body in his close family dares to question him or do against what he thinks. The wife probably thought something was fishy about the cellar but didn't dare to investigate or ask (possible death threats and all). Anyway, someone who stayed with him after two rape attempts is probably a victim of abuse herself.

mykarma
May 6th, 2008, 02:51 AM
And add the fact that kids were mysteriously appearing...

I guess I could still imagine why would his wife not know about all this stuff. I guess because of his "tyranny", no body in his close family dares to question him or do against what he thinks. The wife probably thought something was fishy about the cellar but didn't dare to investigate or ask (possible death threats and all). Anyway, someone who stayed with him after two rape attempts is probably a victim of abuse herself.
One of the tenants said that they were told if they used the basement they would be evicted and he questioned that he heard strange noises and was told that it was the pipes or heating systems.

Miranda
May 6th, 2008, 03:24 AM
i read in Chinese newspaper that the bastard asked the daugther to dig up the soil and enlarged the cellar herself which took her 10 years ......... he also asked her to move the 600 pounds door ......... and that at first she was handcuffed in a room which is only 15 feet x 15 feet ........ i could not read any more ..........

this man is as worst as Hilter, and is a coward, just admit what you did and not using this mentally disorder to cover up all your guilt, may god punish him in hell for eternity :fiery:

drake3781
May 6th, 2008, 04:15 AM
the bit about the language is a sure sign that we're dealing with rumours. there is no way in hell children won't learn to speak if they are growing up with an adult, even though it's possible that their version of the language is different when it gets to grammar and vocabulary. i don't think rumours like that should be spread about the victims. i read the hopsital they are in is under the siege from journalists which is idiotic, really. people should concentrate the negative energy on the idiot, if they must, but they should leave the victims alone.


So, you need proof that the children have a language between them of grunts and coos, in addition to being able to speak some words they were taught by their mother? :rolleyes: OK, I will post information about that when I come across it.

azdaja
May 6th, 2008, 10:58 AM
So, you need proof that the children have a language between them of grunts and coos, in addition to being able to speak some words they were taught by their mother? :rolleyes: OK, I will post information about that when I come across it.
there, i'll do it for you:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1914157/Austria-Dungeon-children-speak-their-own-animal-language.html
:p

all i can see is what you would expect from people who were never in touch with wider community. calling this "animal language" like this journalist did is pretty idiotic sensationalism if you ask me (and another proof that you should never let journalists think for you). children use sounds like this all the time when they are little. if you don't have more than one adult or enough older children around you you are not likely to learn to use the language in a regular way. it's perfectly understandable that they will have difficulties when trying to communicate with others. and if they make sounds because of excitement because they are seeing things for the first time in their lives, that's not because they speak in an "animal language", that's because they don't know that most people would consider such behaviour ridiculous. they can use more than a few words, their mother even taught them to read.

there was another case where children were kept in captivity for a long time and the newspapers reported something similar. read about it here (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21210531-2703,00.html) (it should be noted that in german a sentence can be finished with 'aber' which means 'but', so if these girls really finish all their sentences with that word it's not really that huge a change). it's normal that people who get separated from the rest will start speaking differently with time. i studied linguistics and will continue in the autumn and stuff like this is of interest to me. the main point is, they will need to learn the pragmatics of the language. then they will stop shouting and grunting and everything else. the big question here is the psychological damage, can it be repaired? will they ever be able to lead a normal social life?

A Magicman
May 6th, 2008, 01:42 PM
That´s right. I study law in Austria and practically all tax dodgers have to go to prison for few years and murderers have to go "only" to a mental hospital because they are insane :o

There is something wrong here. But i guess in France, Germany, Italy .... the situation isn´t different.


Nope, up here women kill their new born babies and put them into the fridge or "bury" them in flower boxes on their balconies.

Usually happens in the DDR, but the last case has been in the West. Not less sickening, though.

ViennaCalling
May 6th, 2008, 01:44 PM
i read in Chinese newspaper that the bastard asked the daugther to dig up the soil and enlarged the cellar herself which took her 10 years ......... he also asked her to move the 600 pounds door ......... and that at first she was handcuffed in a room which is only 15 feet x 15 feet ........ i could not read any more ..........

this man is as worst as Hilter, and is a coward, just admit what you did and not using this mentally disorder to cover up all your guilt, may god punish him in hell for eternity :fiery:


I hate the comparison with Hitler ... Only because he was an Austrian too?

Denise4925
May 6th, 2008, 05:20 PM
And add the fact that kids were mysteriously appearing...

I guess I could still imagine why would his wife not know about all this stuff. I guess because of his "tyranny", no body in his close family dares to question him or do against what he thinks. The wife probably thought something was fishy about the cellar but didn't dare to investigate or ask (possible death threats and all). Anyway, someone who stayed with him after two rape attempts is probably a victim of abuse herself.

I totally agree. It's easy for outsiders to judge, but we really don't know what she was going through herself. I'm just happy that he got found out and they are all rid of him and his tyranny.

Denise4925
May 6th, 2008, 05:28 PM
there, i'll do it for you:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1914157/Austria-Dungeon-children-speak-their-own-animal-language.html
:p

all i can see is what you would expect from people who were never in touch with wider community. calling this "animal language" like this journalist did is pretty idiotic sensationalism if you ask me (and another proof that you should never let journalists think for you). children use sounds like this all the time when they are little. if you don't have more than one adult or enough older children around you you are not likely to learn to use the language in a regular way. it's perfectly understandable that they will have difficulties when trying to communicate with others. and if they make sounds because of excitement because they are seeing things for the first time in their lives, that's not because they speak in an "animal language", that's because they don't know that most people would consider such behaviour ridiculous. they can use more than a few words, their mother even taught them to read.

there was another case where children were kept in captivity for a long time and the newspapers reported something similar. read about it here (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21210531-2703,00.html) (it should be noted that in german a sentence can be finished with 'aber' which means 'but', so if these girls really finish all their sentences with that word it's not really that huge a change). it's normal that people who get separated from the rest will start speaking differently with time. i studied linguistics and will continue in the autumn and stuff like this is of interest to me. the main point is, they will need to learn the pragmatics of the language. then they will stop shouting and grunting and everything else. the big question here is the psychological damage, can it be repaired? will they ever be able to lead a normal social life?

:worship::worship::worship:

Denise4925
May 6th, 2008, 05:29 PM
i read in Chinese newspaper that the bastard asked the daugther to dig up the soil and enlarged the cellar herself which took her 10 years ......... he also asked her to move the 600 pounds door ......... and that at first she was handcuffed in a room which is only 15 feet x 15 feet ........ i could not read any more ..........

this man is as worst as Hilter, and is a coward, just admit what you did and not using this mentally disorder to cover up all your guilt, may god punish him in hell for eternity :fiery:

What source of information did the newspaper use for that information?

TheBoiledEgg
May 6th, 2008, 09:17 PM
only fit punishment for him is to lock him up in a cellar without any windows also.

keep him there until he dies.

Miranda
May 7th, 2008, 02:59 AM
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/apple/20080506/large/06wx100pa.jpg

Miranda
May 7th, 2008, 03:00 AM
it is said that the source is from England's "Mirror newspaper" (sorry i just translated it from Chinese, don't know if i am correct), i also copied one photo from the newspaper showing the victim and the bastard when they were kid and younger :wavey:
What source of information did the newspaper use for that information?

Ilikebigboobies
May 7th, 2008, 05:30 AM
I agree that the penalties seem too lenient.

This guy apparently broke into a place and raped a girl in 1967 and he only served one and a half years in jail for it!

If his punishment had been more severe, maybe he would not have had the chance to do this to his own daughter. He should have at least got 10 years for that first rape crime.

10 years?

He should have got life in prison for it. Fullstop.

Miranda
May 7th, 2008, 10:33 AM
i read our local newspaper that the police suspected that the bastard raped her first "grand daughter" too, it is said that since she is very ill, the police could not confirm with her, but its a bit strange for me, why they didn't simply just ask her own mother :confused:

random fan
May 7th, 2008, 11:44 AM
he should be locked in an overcrowded cell of one of the poorer countries prison with the rest of the filth of a mankind.

svetaisthebest
May 7th, 2008, 12:28 PM
i read our local newspaper that the police suspected that the bastard raped her first "grand daughter" too, it is said that since she is very ill, the police could not confirm with her, but its a bit strange for me, why they didn't simply just ask her own mother :confused:

he raped his grand daughter too? :tape::tape::help:

Experimentee
May 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM
What source of information did the newspaper use for that information?

I found this article which mentions that

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=455507

Friends 'knew Fritzl abused Elisabeth'
11:00 AEST Mon May 5 2008

As more sadistic details of Elisabeth Fritzl's imprisonment at the hands of her father come to light, it's been revealed lodgers and friends of the family knew she had been abused but told no one.

Elisabeth, now 42, spent 24 years locked inside a stifling, windowless cellar beneath her family home in Amstetten, Austria.

She was repeatedly raped and beaten her by her father Josef — whom she bore seven children — while her mother and six siblings lived a normal life upstairs, apparently unaware at the horrors unfolding below.

Neighbours expressed shock and bewilderment that something so sinister could go unnoticed in their small, close-knit community for so long.

But it seems revelations Josef Fritzl was a sexually violent man were less of a surprise.

A former lodger with the family and a school friend of Elisabeth's have told a London newspaper they knew, as others in the community did, that Josef had abused his daughter before she disappeared.

Joseph Leitner, who lived with the Fritzls between 1990 and 1994, was a close friend of someone who went to school with Elisabeth.

"[My friend] told me what a monster Josef was — and what he had done to Elisabeth," he said to the Telegraph.

"But I decided I did not want to get involved. I did not want to get kicked out of the flat, I did not want to lose it. I kept myself to myself."

Mr Leitner said Elisabeth and his friend ran away to Vienna in 1984 but Josef found her and dragged her home again.

That year, Elisabeth was imprisoned in the dungeon under her home because she threatened to run away again, according to the Daily Mail. Her friends assumed she was missing because she had finally escaped her family.

"We thought she had run off again," Elisabeth's former school friend Alfred Dubanovsky, 42, said to the Telegraph.

"She had told someone in our group that she had had enough, couldn't stand it any more at home and that her father had beat her, and had hurt her.

"She said she was scared of him."

Three of the children Josef fathered with Elisabeth were kept below ground with their mother. Kerstin, 19, Stefan, 18, and Felix, five, did not see sunlight until they were freed with their mother just over a week ago.

Three more of Elisabeth's children were brought upstairs and were formally adopted by Elisabeth’s parents. Her seventh child died shortly after birth. Josef tossed its remains in an incinerator.

Austrian authorities have since said Amstetten officials followed correct procedures in allowing Fritzl and his wife, Rosemarie, who had seven grown-up children of their own, to care for three of the children he had with his daughter, ostensibly after she abandoned them on their doorstep.

Chained up like a dog

The first months of Elisabeth's imprisonment were particularly cruel.

She was chained to the wall of the cellar by a 1.5m dog leash for the first nine months and was only let off to go to the toilet. She screamed herself hoarse in those first few days, but gave up when she realised no one could hear her, The Daily Mail reported.

She also gave up arguing with her father and, in return, he would beat her less.

The four-room cellar that became her home was only built in 1993. Until then, Elisabeth and two of her children shared a room that measured 4.5m by 4.5m.

Elisabeth was forced to dig out by hand the other rooms in her dungeon and investigators say there are signs Josef intended to extend the complex even more.

Detectives working in the bunker now are able to work for only an hour at a time because of the foul air.

"Areas of the dungeon appear to have been under construction and it is possible Fritzl may have been planning to expand it even further," Detective Franz Polzer told the Sunday Mirror.

"The man is evil beyond words. The misery he has inflicted on his family is unimaginable," he said.

Meanwhile, Josef Fritzl is said to be "emotionally a broken man". He watches developments in his case on a television in his cell and reportedly receives four bags of hate mail each day.

His lawyer, Rudolf Mayer, said it would be hard for his client to get a fair trial in front of a jury because of the massive publicity generated by the case.

Mayer said Fritzl should have psychiatric tests to evaluate whether he was fit to stand trial.

"There must be some (psychiatric) disturbance otherwise no one would commit such acts. So is this disturbance so great that he is not of sound mind, not responsible for the acts he has committed?" Mayer said.

The case has generated headlines worldwide and prompted questions about how the abuse in the small town of Amstetten went undetected for so long.

Mayer said this could influence jurors.

"The problem is that lay jurors, naturally, do not bring the objectivity and lack of prejudice to the trial that professional judges always bring."

Mayer acknowledged reports that his client had a rape conviction from the 1960s, around the time Elisabeth, who is 42, was born.

"Such a conviction is not in the files at present but ... it is true that it has been found in the archives."

The newspaper Oberoesterreichische Nachrichten has reproduced what it said was a 1967 court record from state archives in the city of Linz, in which a Josef F was accused of breaking into the apartment of a 24-year-old nurse and raping her.

Josef Fritzl's sister-in-law, identified as Christine R, told the daily Oesterreich that he had gone to jail for the offence. "I was 16 when he was locked up for rape," she said.

In a video interview aired by a number of news channels, she said she believed Fritzl had spent a year and a half in jail, and that his wife Rosemarie, despite her shock, had tried to hold the family together.

Austrian officials will say only that, if Fritzl had such a rape conviction, it would have been purged from the records after 15 years at the latest.

random fan
May 7th, 2008, 02:43 PM
I found this article which mentions that

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=455507

Mayer said Fritzl should have psychiatric tests to evaluate whether he was fit to stand trial.

"There must be some (psychiatric) disturbance otherwise no one would commit such acts. So is this disturbance so great that he is not of sound mind, not responsible for the acts he has committed?" Mayer said.





If there is psychiatric disturbance he still should be put to sleep as a mad dog. But the animal was able to pose as sane person for 24 years. I say he is just evil. 300 years back we used to have fitting punishments for such abominations, but we become more fair and unfortunately that made us more soft, we lost our way

lympyisthebest
May 7th, 2008, 02:49 PM
I read in the paper yesterday that he's trying pleading insanity to avoid jail. His lawyer Rudolf Mayer states "I believe that my client does not belong in a prison but in a secure psychiatric unit."

maumau
May 7th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Maybe in his mind, create the world must like this way.

gotthebend
May 7th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Lucky (somewhat) for those kids, 'cuz they have adults to talk to (their "mom" & father/grandfather)
so that they're able to learn to speak in their childhood.
But I think it'll be extremely challenging for them & the daughter to adjust to normal social activies.
I'm not even sure those boys would grow up to be normal men.
How one calamity begets another!
Men like Fritzl should just kill himself, srsly.
They won't stop unless they're caught or dead.:help:

Miranda
May 8th, 2008, 04:51 AM
a psychiaric disturbed person would not have his energy and brain, to plan the trap up long time ago, to travel to thailand to spend his happy holidays, to think of all those evil things to torture people ............ he is just simply HEARTLESS, his lawyer is shameless too, if i were him, even if that bastard paid me Euro 1 million, i still won't defend for this bastard :rolleyes::fiery:

it further confirms that her mum is guilty too, if Elizabeth's friends/neighbours knew that she was being abused/raped by her own father, how come this Rosemarie did not know and did nothing, she is a very bad mother :rolleyes: :fiery:

If there is psychiatric disturbance he still should be put to sleep as a mad dog. But the animal was able to pose as sane person for 24 years. I say he is just evil. 300 years back we used to have fitting punishments for such abominations, but we become more fair and unfortunately that made us more soft, we lost our way

Denise4925
May 8th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Chained up like a dog

The first months of Elisabeth's imprisonment were particularly cruel.

She was chained to the wall of the cellar by a 1.5m dog leash for the first nine months and was only let off to go to the toilet. She screamed herself hoarse in those first few days, but gave up when she realised no one could hear her, The Daily Mail reported.

She also gave up arguing with her father and, in return, he would beat her less.

The four-room cellar that became her home was only built in 1993. Until then, Elisabeth and two of her children shared a room that measured 4.5m by 4.5m.

Elisabeth was forced to dig out by hand the other rooms in her dungeon and investigators say there are signs Josef intended to extend the complex even more.

Detectives working in the bunker now are able to work for only an hour at a time because of the foul air.



He's just evil and cruel. He knew what he was doing. There is nothing crazy about him. Yes he's psychologically disturbed, but not insane. Some people are just evil.

ZeroSOFInfinity
May 8th, 2008, 07:05 AM
And he got the nick to say he isn't a MONSTER! :rolleyes:

VIENNA (Reuters) - Austrian Josef Fritzl, who imprisoned his daughter for 24 years and fathered her seven children, said he was no "monster" and he could have killed her and her children had he wanted to, according to his lawyer.

"I am not a monster," Austrian daily Oesterreich quoted Fritzl as saying in comments relayed by his lawyer Rudolf Mayer. Fritzl also criticised media coverage of his case as "totally one-sided".


In 1984, the now 73-year-old lured daughter Elisabeth into a basement in his home in the eastern Austrian town of Amstetten, drugged her and locked her up. He claimed she had disappeared to join a sect.

Three of Elisabeth's children were raised by Fritzl and his wife Rosemarie after he pretended his daughter had left them on his doorstep with a letter saying she could not care for them.

The other three children remained locked up in the windowless basement with their mother. A seventh child died shortly after birth.

The pretence unravelled when the eldest child of the incestuous relationship, a 19-year-old daughter, became seriously ill and was taken to hospital more than two weeks ago.

The young woman remains in an artificial coma and needs artificial respiration, according to her doctor.

"Without me (she) would not be alive anymore...I was the one who made sure that she was taken to a hospital," said Fritzl, who also has seven children with his wife Rosemarie.

"I could have killed all of them -- then nothing would have happened. No one would have ever known about it."

Fritzl is remanded in custody in the city of St Poelten.

Copyright © 2008 Reuters

==============================
DUMBASS! DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID TO YOUR DAUGHTER IS INHUMANE, YOU FREAKING PIECE OF SHIT?

YOU DESERVE THE "MONSTER" TAG FOR THAT! :weirdo:

Miranda
May 8th, 2008, 07:14 AM
hahaha, i have to laugh, no offence, i think it may be better if he killed them all instead of letting the daughter and kids to suffer for so long ......

how twisted is his thinkings and how high he thinks of himself :fiery:, if he thinks he is being good, may be we should present him a nobel award :rolleyes:




And he got the nick to say he isn't a MONSTER! :rolleyes:

VIENNA (Reuters) - Austrian Josef Fritzl, who imprisoned his daughter for 24 years and fathered her seven children, said he was no "monster" and he could have killed her and her children had he wanted to, according to his lawyer.

"I am not a monster," Austrian daily Oesterreich quoted Fritzl as saying in comments relayed by his lawyer Rudolf Mayer. Fritzl also criticised media coverage of his case as "totally one-sided".


In 1984, the now 73-year-old lured daughter Elisabeth into a basement in his home in the eastern Austrian town of Amstetten, drugged her and locked her up. He claimed she had disappeared to join a sect.

Three of Elisabeth's children were raised by Fritzl and his wife Rosemarie after he pretended his daughter had left them on his doorstep with a letter saying she could not care for them.

The other three children remained locked up in the windowless basement with their mother. A seventh child died shortly after birth.

The pretence unravelled when the eldest child of the incestuous relationship, a 19-year-old daughter, became seriously ill and was taken to hospital more than two weeks ago.

The young woman remains in an artificial coma and needs artificial respiration, according to her doctor.

"Without me (she) would not be alive anymore...I was the one who made sure that she was taken to a hospital," said Fritzl, who also has seven children with his wife Rosemarie.

"I could have killed all of them -- then nothing would have happened. No one would have ever known about it."

Fritzl is remanded in custody in the city of St Poelten.

Copyright © 2008 Reuters

==============================
DUMBASS! DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID TO YOUR DAUGHTER IS INHUMANE, YOU FREAKING PIECE OF SHIT?

YOU DESERVE THE "MONSTER" TAG FOR THAT! :weirdo:

ViennaCalling
May 8th, 2008, 09:52 AM
Although this case isn´t funny, i found that in the net:

http://666kb.com/i/aygagnojekb3jua39.jpg

:p

Miranda
May 8th, 2008, 10:29 AM
ai, sad but funny :p

i read that this bastard received every day bags of letters saying that they wanted to kill him:wavey::confused:
Although this case isn´t funny, i found that in the net:

http://666kb.com/i/aygagnojekb3jua39.jpg

:p