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mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Cops not guilty in groom shooting (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sean.bell.trial/index.html)

A judge acquitted three New York Police Department detectives of all charges Friday morning in the shooting death of an unarmed man. Sean Bell was killed in a 50-bullet barrage, hours before he was to be married. developing story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sean.bell.trial/index.html)

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:32 PM
BREAKING NEWS: Detectives Found Not Guilty In Sean Bell Case

POSTED: 8:40 am EDT April 25, 2008
UPDATED: 9:23 am EDT April 25, 2008

NEW YORK -- Three police detectives have been found not guilty of all charges in the shooting death of Sean Bell.
Officers Michael Oliver, Gescard Isnora and Marc Cooper were acquitted of all charges 17 months after Bell died in a hail of 50 police bullets. The unarmed man was shot coming out of a strip club just hours before he was to be married on Nov. 25, 2006.
Oliver and Isnora, faced charges of manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment. Cooper faced charges of reckless endangerment.

Bell's fiancee, Nicole Paultre Bell, accompanied by the Rev. Al Sharpton, who has led many of the protests, arrived at the courthouse Friday morning with a crowd of supporters.
They threaded their way past a phalanx of police and news cameras into a courthouse ringed by metal barricades and police officers.
A crowd of about 200 people gathered outside the building. Some wore buttons with Bell's picture or held signs saying "Justice for Sean Bell."
Paultre Bell, who legally took her intended s name after his death, wore a black suit, with a button bearing Bell's face on her jacket.
During the seven-week trial, which featured often conflicting testimony, defense attorneys painted the victims as drunken thugs who the officers believed were armed and dangerous.
Prosecutors sought to convince the judge that the victims had been minding their own business, and that the officers were inept, trigger-happy aggressors.
"This F-Troop of a unit caused the death of an innocent man and caused the injury of two others," said Assistant District Attorney Charles Testagrossa, referring to the classic TV sit-com. "This was a slipshod operation, with no real planning."
Bell's fiancee, parents and their supporters have demanded that the police be held accountable. Sharpton said he has sought to temper outrage over the shooting of three unarmed black men and let the trial take its course. Two of the three officers are black.
"We gave the city an opportunity to show that we would be a new city of fairness," he told reporters at City Hall earlier this week.
Even with an acquittal, authorities have predicted calm will prevail.
"We certainly don't expect violence," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said Thursday.
The defendants, who were investigating reports of prostitution at the Kalua Cabaret, say they became alarmed when they heard Bell and his friends trade insults around the 4 a.m. closing time with another patron who appeared to be armed. In grand jury testimony, Isnora claimed that he overheard one of Bell's companions, Joseph Guzman, say, "Yo, go get my gun."
Isnora responded by trailing Bell, Guzman and Trent Benefield to Bell's car. He insisted that he ordered the men to halt, and that he and other officers began shooting only after Bell bumped him with his car and slammed into an unmarked police van while trying to flee.
Guzman and Benefield both played down the dispute outside the club. They also testified that they were unaware police were watching them, and that the gunfire erupted without warning.

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:35 PM
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A judge acquitted three New York Police Department detectives of all charges Friday morning in the shooting death of an unarmed man in a 50-bullet barrage, hours before he was to be married.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/CRIME/04/25/sean.bell.trial/art.bell.cops.jpgDetectives Michael Oliver, left, Gescard Isnora and Marc Cooper were accused in the 50-bullet barrage.




Detectives Michael Oliver and Gescard Isnora were found not guilty of charges of manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment in the death of Sean Bell, 23, and the wounding of two of his friends.
Detective Marc Cooper was acquitted of reckless endangerment.
Justice Arthur Cooperman issued his verdict in the bench trial. There was no jury.
Hundreds of people gathered outside the Queens courthouse in anticipation of the verdict.
The Rev. Al Sharpton called for calm Wednesday. He was accompanied by Bell's fiancee and other supporters on the steps of City Hall.


Bell (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/sean_bell), 23, was killed just before dawn on his wedding day, November 25, 2006. He and several friends were winding up an all-night bachelor party at the Kalua Club in Queens, a strip club that was under investigation by a NYPD undercover unit looking into complaints of guns, drugs and prostitution.
Undercover detectives were inside the club, and plain-clothes officers were stationed outside.
Witnesses said that about 4 a.m., closing time, as Bell and his friends left the club, an argument broke out. Believing that one of Bell's friends, Joseph Guzman, was going to get a gun from Bell's car, one of the undercover detectives followed the men and called for backup.
What happened next was at the heart of the trial, prosecuted by the assistant district attorney in Queens.

Bell, Guzman and Trent Benefield got into the car, with Bell at the wheel. The detectives drew their weapons, said Guzman and Benefield, who testified that they never heard the plain-clothes detectives identify themselves as police.
Bell was in a panic to get away from the armed men, his friends testified.
But the detectives thought Bell was trying to run down one of them, according to their lawyers, believed that their lives were in danger and started shooting.
In a frantic 911 call, police can be heard saying, "Shots fired. Undercover units involved."

A total of 50 bullets were fired by five NYPD officers. Only three were charged with crimes.
Oliver, who reloaded his semiautomatic in the middle of the fray, fired 31 times, Isnora fired 11 times, and Cooper, whose leg was brushed by Bell's moving car, fired four times, the NYPD said.
No gun was found near Bell or his friends.

Soon after his death, Sean Bell's fiancee, Nicole Paultre, legally changed her name to Nicole Paultre Bell. She is now raising the couple's two daughters, ages 5 and 1.
"I tell [them] that Daddy's in heaven now," she said. "He's watching over us. He's our guardian angel. He's going to be here to protect us and make sure nothing happens to us."

Detectives Endowment Association President Michael Palladino said forensic and scientific evidence presented during the seven-week trial contradicts the testimony of prosecution witnesses.
But Paultre Bell's father, Lester Paultre, said, "For those naysayers who say the police was doing their job, they should imagine their child in that car being shot by the police for no reason."

Paultre Bell, Guzman and Benefield have filed a wrongful-death lawsuit in federal court that has been stayed pending the outcome of the criminal trial. Guzman was shot 16 times, and four bullets, too dangerous to remove, remain in his body, according to his lawyer, Sanford Rubenstein.
Federal prosecutors in the Eastern District of New York have been monitoring the trial. In the event of an acquittal, it is likely authorities would conduct a review to determine whether there were any civil rights violations. All three victims were African-American.

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:37 PM
SMH...You can unload and reload your gun and shoot an unarmed man 31 times and walk away without any consequences...DISGUSTING!!!!

azinna
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Oh f*ck. I was in LA for the Rodney King happenings. And I'm in NYC now for this?

I need to see a full report of the judge's reasoning, although I'm so mad I don't know if I can read. I know I should really see the report and hear what evidence/cases were presented by the defense, but I don't know if the shock will let me....

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:39 PM
BREAKING NEWS: Detectives Found Not Guilty In Sean Bell Case

POSTED: 8:40 am EDT April 25, 2008
UPDATED: 9:23 am EDT April 25, 2008

NEW YORK -- Three police detectives have been found not guilty of all charges in the shooting death of Sean Bell.
Officers Michael Oliver, Gescard Isnora and Marc Cooper were acquitted of all charges 17 months after Bell died in a hail of 50 police bullets. The unarmed man was shot coming out of a strip club just hours before he was to be married on Nov. 25, 2006.
Oliver and Isnora, faced charges of manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment. Cooper faced charges of reckless endangerment.

Bell's fiancee, Nicole Paultre Bell, accompanied by the Rev. Al Sharpton, who has led many of the protests, arrived at the courthouse Friday morning with a crowd of supporters.

They threaded their way past a phalanx of police and news cameras into a courthouse ringed by metal barricades and police officers.
A crowd of about 200 people gathered outside the building. Some wore buttons with Bell's picture or held signs saying "Justice for Sean Bell."
Paultre Bell, who legally took her intended s name after his death, wore a black suit, with a button bearing Bell's face on her jacket.

During the seven-week trial, which featured often conflicting testimony, defense attorneys painted the victims as drunken thugs who the officers believed were armed and dangerous.

Prosecutors sought to convince the judge that the victims had been minding their own business, and that the officers were inept, trigger-happy aggressors.
"This F-Troop of a unit caused the death of an innocent man and caused the injury of two others," said Assistant District Attorney Charles Testagrossa, referring to the classic TV sit-com. "This was a slipshod operation, with no real planning."
Bell's fiancee, parents and their supporters have demanded that the police be held accountable. Sharpton said he has sought to temper outrage over the shooting of three unarmed black men and let the trial take its course. Two of the three officers are black.

"We gave the city an opportunity to show that we would be a new city of fairness," he told reporters at City Hall earlier this week.
Even with an acquittal, authorities have predicted calm will prevail.
"We certainly don't expect violence," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said Thursday.

The defendants, who were investigating reports of prostitution at the Kalua Cabaret, say they became alarmed when they heard Bell and his friends trade insults around the 4 a.m. closing time with another patron who appeared to be armed. In grand jury testimony, Isnora claimed that he overheard one of Bell's companions, Joseph Guzman, say, "Yo, go get my gun."

Isnora responded by trailing Bell, Guzman and Trent Benefield to Bell's car. He insisted that he ordered the men to halt, and that he and other officers began shooting only after Bell bumped him with his car and slammed into an unmarked police van while trying to flee.

Guzman and Benefield both played down the dispute outside the club. They also testified that they were unaware police were watching them, and that the gunfire erupted without warning.
This is so very sad. I don't know what else to say. :sad:

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:42 PM
Oh f*ck. I was in LA for the Rodney King happenings. And I'm in NYC now for this?

I need to see a full report of the judge's reasoning, although I'm so mad I don't know if I can read. I know I should really see the report and hear what evidence/cases were presented by the defense, but I don't know if the shock will let me....
I heard something about the witnesses weren't credible and that at least one of them had a long record and was combative. Cops know that there are no consequences for killing a black man and the one case where they got time the sentence was overturned.

geoepee
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:48 PM
not guilty on all charges... even reckless endangerment!. speechless. 50 bullets in two minutes, and bullets found not only in sean bell's car, but all over, in neighboring homes. just wow. wondering what's gonna happen next. i'm speechless, but not surprised at all.

Wigglytuff
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:50 PM
judge oks murder of another unarmed black man.

as if it is not disgusting enough when a jury lets police officers murder black men and get away with it, but for a judge to do it? that is a different kind of insult

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:55 PM
not guilty on all charges... even reckless endangerment!. speechless. 50 bullets in two minutes, and bullets found not only in sean bell's car, but all over, in neighboring homes. just wow. wondering what's gonna happen next. i'm speechless, but not surprised at all.
I feel so bad for Sean's family especially his young children. How will these children ever grow up without hate and bitterness towards the judicial system?

azinna
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:57 PM
I heard something about the witnesses weren't credible and that at least one of them had a long record and was combative. Cops know that there are no consequences for killing a black man and the one case where they got time the sentence was overturned.

thank you, my karma. but this is absolutely maddening stuff. i haven't been following so i know i need to calm down and get more information. i'm not sure, though, what you need credible witnesses for when there's plenty evidence that they emptied several rounds on folks who were unarmed.

Wigglytuff
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:58 PM
sometimes I wonder if this nation places any value on the lives of black men, women or even children.

Wigglytuff
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:00 PM
thank you, my karma. but this is absolutely maddening stuff. i haven't been following so i know i need to calm down and get more information. i'm not sure, though, what you need credible witnesses for when there's plenty evidence that they emptied several rounds on folks who were unarmed.

thats what i want to know!

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:02 PM
thank you, my karma. but this is absolutely maddening stuff. i haven't been following so i know i need to calm down and get more information. i'm not sure, though, what you need credible witnesses for when there's plenty evidence that they emptied several rounds on folks who were unarmed.
Sean's family is trying to stay calm for the people of NY. I just hope that it remains calm in the city.

Wigglytuff
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:05 PM
the first thing i thought about when i read the verdict news today was emmitt till

Emmett Till was the son of Mamie Till and Louis Till. Emmett's mother was born to John and Alma Carthan in the small Delta town of Webb, Mississippi ("the Delta" being the traditional name for the area of northwestern Mississippi at the confluence of the Yazoo and Mississippi Rivers). When she was two years old, her family moved to Illinois. Emmett's mother largely raised him on her own; she and Louis Till had separated in 1942.

Emmett's father, Louis Till, was drafted into the U.S. Army in 1943. While serving in Italy, he was convicted of raping two women and killing a third. He was executed by the Army by hanging near Pisa in July 1945.[5][6] Before Emmett Till's killing, the Till family knew none of this, having been told only that Louis had been killed due to "willful misconduct". The facts of Louis Till's execution were made widely known after Emmett Till's death by segregationist senator James Eastland in an apparent attempt to turn public support away from Mrs. Till just weeks before the trials of Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam, the implication being that criminal behavior ran in the Till family.[7][8]


[edit]Events
In 1955, Till and his cousin were sent to stay for the summer with Till's uncle, Moses Wright,[9] who lived in Money, Mississippi (another small town in the Delta, eight miles north of Greenwood).

Before his departure for the Delta, Till's mother cautioned him to "mind his manners" with white people.

Till's mother understood that race relations in Mississippi were very different from those in Chicago. Mississippi had seen many lynchings during the South's lynching era (ca. 1876-1930), and racially motivated murders were still not unfamiliar, especially in the Delta region where Till was going for a visit. Racial tensions were also on the rise after the United States Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education to end segregation in public education.

Till arrived on August 21. On August 24, he joined other young teenagers as they went to Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market to get some candy and soda. The teens were children of sharecroppers and had been picking cotton all day. The market was owned by a husband and wife, Roy Bryant and Carolyn Bryant, and mostly catered to the local sharecropper population. Till's cousin and several black youths, all under 16, were with Till in the store. Till had shown them photos of his life back home, including one of him with his friends and girlfriend, a white girl. The boys didn't believe that he had a white girlfriend and dared him to talk to a white woman in the shop.

Till whistled at storekeeper Carolyn Bryant, a married white woman.[10] She stood up and rushed to her car. The boys were terrified, thinking she might return with a pistol, and ran away.



Bryant's Store in Money, Mississippi. This picture was taken in 2005
Carolyn Bryant told others of the events at the store, and the news spread quickly. When Bryant's husband returned from a road trip a few days later and was told the news, he was greatly angered. By that point, it seemed that everyone in Tallahatchie County had heard about the incident, which had several days to percolate. Different versions were disseminated. Till's cousin, Wheeler Parker, Jr., who was with him at the store, claims Till did nothing but whistle at the woman. "He loved pranks, he loved fun, he loved jokes... in Mississippi, people didn't think the same jokes were funny." Carolyn Bryant later asserted that Till had grabbed her at the waist and asked her for a date. She said the young man also used "unprintable" words. He had a slight stutter and some have conjectured that Bryant might have misinterpreted what Till said. Bryant decided that he and his half-brother, J.W. Milam, 36, would meet at 3:00 a.m. on Sunday to "teach the boy a lesson."


[edit]Murder
At about 12:33 a.m. on August 28, Bryant and his half-brother, J.W. Milam, came in a car with two people in the back whose identities have still not been confirmed, and kidnapped Emmett Till from his great-uncle's house in the middle of the night. According to witnesses, they drove him to a weathered shed on a plantation in neighboring Sunflower County, where they brutally beat and then shot him. A fan was tied around his neck with barbed wire in order to weigh down his body, which they dropped into the Tallahatchie River near Glendora, Mississippi, another small cotton town north of Money.

Afterwards, with Till missing, Bryant and Milam admitted they had taken the boy from his great-uncle's yard but claimed they turned him loose the same night. Some supposed that relatives of Till were hiding him out of fear for the youth’s safety or that he had been sent back to Chicago where he would be safe. Word got out that Till was missing and soon NAACP civil rights leader Medgar Evers, the state field secretary, and Amzie Moore, head of the Bolivar County chapter, became involved, disguising themselves as cotton pickers and going into the cotton fields in search of any information that would help find the young visitor from Chicago.

After Till's body was recovered, the brothers and the police tried to convince people that it wasn't Till; that Till was in Chicago and that the beaten boy was someone else. Till's features were too distorted by the beatings to easily identify him, but he was positively identified thanks to a ring he wore on his finger that had been his father's. His mother had given it to him the day before he left for Money. The brothers were soon under official suspicion for the boy's disappearance and were arrested August 29 after spending the night with relatives in Ruleville, just miles from the scene of the crime.

Moses Wright, a witness to Till's abduction, told the Sheriff that a person who sounded like a woman had identified Till as "the one," after which Bryant and Milam had driven away with him. Bryant and Milam claimed they later found out Till was not "the one" who had allegedly "insulted" Mrs. Bryant, and swore to Sheriff George Smith they had released him. They would later recant and confess after their acquittal.

In an editorial on Friday, September 2, Greenville journalist Hodding Carter, Jr. asserted that "people who are guilty of this savage crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law," a brave suggestion for any Mississippi newspaper editor to make at the time.


[edit]Funeral
After Till's disfigured body was found, he was put into a pine box and nearly buried, but Mamie Till wanted the body to come back to Chicago. A Tutwiler mortuary assistant worked all night to prepare the body as best he could so that Mamie Till could bring Emmett's body back to Chicago.

The Chicago funeral home had agreed not to open the casket, but Mamie Till fought their decision. The state of Mississippi insisted it would not allow the funeral home to open it, so Mamie threatened to open it herself, insisting she had a right to see her son. After viewing the body, she also insisted on leaving the casket open for the funeral and allowing people to take photographs because she wanted people to see how badly Till's body had been disfigured. News photographs of Till's mutilated corpse circulated around the country, notably appearing in Jet magazine, and drew intense public reaction. Some reports said that up to 50,000 people viewed the body.

Emmett Till was buried September 6 in Burr Oak Cemetery in Alsip, Illinois. The same day, Bryant and Milam were indicted by a grand jury.


[edit]Trial
When Mamie Till came to the state of Mississippi to testify at the trial, she stayed in the home of Dr. T.R.M. Howard in the all-black town of Mound Bayou. Others staying in Howard's home were black reporters, such as Cloyte Murdock of Ebony Magazine, key witnesses, and Congressman Charles Diggs of Michigan, later the first chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus. Howard was a major civil rights leader and fraternal organization official in Mississippi, the head of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL), and one of the wealthiest blacks in the state.

The day before the trial, Frank Young, a black farm worker, came to Howard's home. He said that he had information indicating that Milam and Bryant had help in their crime. Young's allegations sparked an investigation that led to unprecedented cooperation between local law enforcement, the NAACP, the RCNL, black journalists, and local reporters. The trial began on September 19. Moses "Mose" Wright, Emmett's great-uncle, was one of the main witnesses called up to speak. Pointing to one of the suspected killers, he said "Dar he," to refer to the man who had killed his nephew.

Another key witness for the prosecution was Willie Reed, an 18-year-old high school student who lived on a plantation near Drew, Mississippi in Sunflower County. The prosecution had located him thanks to the investigation sparked by Young's information. Reed testified that he had seen a pickup truck outside of an equipment shed on a plantation near Drew managed by Leslie Milam, a brother of J.W. Milam and Roy Bryant. He said that four whites, including J.W. Milam, were in the cab and three blacks were in the back, one of them Till. When the truck pulled into the shed, he heard human cries that sounded like a beating was underway. He did not identify the other blacks on the truck.

On September 23 the all-white jury, made up of 12 males, acquitted both defendants. Deliberations took just 67 minutes; one juror said, "If we hadn't stopped to drink pop, it wouldn't have taken that long."[10] The hasty acquittal outraged people throughout the United States and Europe and energized the nascent Civil Rights Movement.


[edit]Aftermath of the trial
Even by the time of the trial, Howard and black journalists such as James Hicks of the Baltimore Afro-American named several blacks who had allegedly been on the truck near Drew, including three employees of J.W. Milam: Henry Lee Loggins, Levi "Too-Tight" Collins, and Joe Willie Hubbard. They were never called to testify. In the months after the trial, both Hicks and Howard called for a federal investigation into charges that Sheriff H.C. Strider had locked Collins and Loggins in jail to keep them from testifying.

Following the trial, Look Magazine paid J.W. Milam and Roy Bryant $4,000 to tell their story. Safe from any further charges for their crime due to double jeopardy protection, Bryant admitted to journalist William Bradford Huie that he and his brother had killed Till. Milam claimed that initially their intention was to scare Till into line by pistol-whipping him and threatening to throw him off a cliff. Milam explained that contrary to expectations, regardless of what they did to Till, he never showed any fear, never seemed to believe they would really kill him, and maintained a completely unrepentant, insolent, and defiant attitude towards them concerning his actions. Thus the brothers said they felt they were left with no choice but to fully make an example of Till, and they killed him. The story focused exclusively on the role of Milam and Bryant in the crime and did not mention any possible part played by others in the crime. The article was published in Look in January 1956. While some found it repugnant that Look had paid these men $4,000, the editorial position was that the good of getting the public to know the truth outweighed the bad of these men being paid a lot of money.

In February 1956 Howard's version of the events of the kidnapping and murder, which stressed the possible involvement of Hubbard and Loggins, appeared in the booklet Time Bomb: Mississippi Exposed and the Full Story of Emmett Till by Olive Arnold Adams. At the same time a still unidentified white reporter using the pseudonym Amos Dixon wrote a series of articles in the California Eagle. The series put forward essentially the same thesis as Time Bomb but offered a more detailed description of the possible role of Loggins, Hubbard, Collins, and Leslie Milam. Time Bomb and Dixon's articles had no lasting impact in the shaping of public opinion. Huie's article in the far more widely circulated Look became the most commonly accepted version of events.

In 1957 Huie returned to the story for Look in an article that indicated that local residents were shunning Milam and Bryant and that their stores were closed due to a lack of business.

Milam died of cancer in 1980 and Bryant died of cancer in 1994. The men never expressed any remorse for Till's death and seemed to feel that they had done no wrong. In fact, a few months before he died, Bryant complained bitterly in an interview that he had never made as much money off Till's death as he deserved and that it had ruined his life[11]. Emmett's mother Mamie (as Mamie Till Mobley) outlived both men, dying at the age of 81 on January 6, 2003. That same year her autobiography Death of Innocence: The Story of the Hate Crime That Changed America (One World Books, co-written with Christopher Benson) was published.

In 1991, a seven-mile stretch of 71st street in Chicago was renamed "Emmett Till Memorial Highway," after the slain child. In 2006 a Mississippi historical marker marking the place of Till's death was defaced, and in August 2007 it went missing.[12] Less than a week later a replica was put up in its place.[13]

In 2005 the "James McCosh Math and Science Academy," where Till had been a student, was renamed the "Emmett Louis Till Math And Science Academy."[14] It is the first Chicago school to be named after a child.[15]


[edit]Recent investigations
In 2001, David T. Beito, associate professor at the University of Alabama and Linda Royster Beito, chair of the department of social sciences at Stillman College, were the first investigators in many decades to track down and interview on tape two key principals in the case: Henry Lee Loggins and Willie Reed. They were doing research for their biography of T.R.M. Howard. In his interview with the Beitos, Loggins denied that he had any knowledge of the crime or that he was one of the black men on the truck outside of the equipment shed near Drew. Reed repeated the testimony that he had given at the trial, that he had seen three black men and four white men (including J.W. Milam) on the truck. When asked to identify the black men, however, he did not name Loggins as one of them. The Beitos also confirmed that Levi "Too-Tight" Collins, another black man allegedly on this car, had died in 1993.

In 1996, Keith Beauchamp started background research for a feature film he planned to make about Till's murder, and asserted that as many as 14 individuals may have been involved. While conducting interviews he also encountered eyewitnesses who had never spoken out publicly before. As a result he decided to produce a documentary instead, and spent the next nine years creating The Untold Story of Emmett Louis Till. The film led to calls by the NAACP and others for the case to be reopened. The documentary included lengthy interviews with Loggins and Reed, both of whom the Beitos had first tracked down and interviewed in 2001. Loggins repeated his denial of any knowledge of the crime. Beauchamp has consistently refused to name the fourteen individuals who he asserts took part in the crime, including the five who he claims are still alive.

On May 10, 2004, the United States Department of Justice announced that it was reopening the case to determine whether anyone other than Milam and Bryant was involved. Although the statute of limitations prevented charges being pursued under federal law, they could be pursued before the state court, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation and officials in Mississippi worked jointly on the investigation. As no autopsy had been performed on Till's body, it was exhumed on May 31, 2005 from the suburban Chicago cemetery where it was buried, and the Cook County coroner then conducted the autopsy. The body was reburied by relatives on June 4. It has been positively identified as that of Emmett Till.

In February 2007, the Jackson Clarion-Ledger reported that both the FBI and a Leflore County Grand Jury, which was empaneled by Joyce Chiles, a black prosecutor, had found no credible basis for Keith Beauchamp's claim that 14 individuals took part in Till's abduction and murder or that any are still alive. The Grand Jury also decided not to pursue charges against Carolyn Bryant Donham, Roy Bryant's ex-wife. Neither the FBI nor the Grand Jury found any credible evidence that Henry Lee Loggins, now living in an Ohio nursing home, and identified by Beauchamp as a suspect who could be charged, had any role in the crime. Other than Loggins, Beauchamp still refuses to name the 14 people who he says were involved although the FBI and District Attorney have completed their investigations of his charges and he is free to go on the record. A story by Jerry Mitchell in the Clarion-Ledger on February 18 describes Beauchamp's allegation that 14 or more were involved as a legend.

The same article also labels as legend a rumor that Till had endured castration at the hands of his victimizers. The castration theory was first put forward uncritically in Beauchamp's "Untold Story" although Mamie Till-Mobley (Emmett's mother) had said in an earlier documentary directed by Stanley Nelson, "The Murder of Emmett Till," (2003) that her son's genitals were intact when she examined the corpse. The recent autopsy, as reported by Mitchell, confirmed Mobley-Till's original account and showed no evidence of castration.

In March 2007, Till's family was briefed by the FBI on the contents of its investigation. The FBI report released on March 29, 2007 found that Till had died of a gunshot wound to the head and that he had broken wrist bones and skull and leg fractures.[16]

Paneru
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:08 PM
Can someone tell me why this was decided
by a judge and not before a jury?

Also, how can a cop be justified in unloading
that many rounds, re-load, and shoot again
when none of the men had a gun on them?

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:11 PM
sometimes I wonder if this nation places any value on the lives of black men, women or even children.
Why would you ask that question when you know the answer.

Paneru
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:20 PM
sometimes I wonder if this nation places any value on the lives of black men, women or even children.

Well, you aren't the only one.

And cases like this simply bring that
question to the forefront time and time again.

kwilliams
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:23 PM
That's so awful. How can anyone justify the fact that 50 bullets were fired. That is crazy. This makes the Jean Charles de Menesez incident look tame.

I wonder what disciplinary action the officers will face. There must be some consequences for them. Anyone know?

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:29 PM
That's so awful. How can anyone justify the fact that 50 bullets were fired. That is crazy. This makes the Jean Charles de Menesez incident look tame.

I wonder what disciplinary action the officers will face. There must be some consequences for them. Anyone know?
They're not guilty.

kwilliams
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:34 PM
They're not guilty.

Well I hope their bosses take them off any armed patrol work. They should not be allowed have firearms again. Maybe they can get one of those 'desk jobs' they're always talking about in the movies.

Black Mamba.
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:38 PM
I knew it was going to go down like this. This is beyond sad.

Black Mamba.
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Can someone tell me why this was decided
by a judge and not before a jury?

Also, how can a cop be justified in unloading
that many rounds, re-load, and shoot again
when none of the men had a gun on them?

Because the defendants waived their right to a jury trial which is something you can do. My issue is that this mess happens time and time again with the exact same result.

Bijoux0021
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Can someone tell me why this was decided
by a judge and not before a jury?

Also, how can a cop be justified in unloading
that many rounds, re-load, and shoot again
when none of the men had a gun on them?
The cops and their lawyers had a choice to either have a jury-trial or have the case heard by a judge, so they chose the judge. They knew their chances for acquittal were greater by a judge than by a jury of 12 people. Not that it would have mattered. I doubt a jury, especially an all white jury, which they would have wanted/chosen, would have found them guilty. Cops don't go to jail for shooting and killing people of color for no reason. Whether it's 50, 60, 70, 100 shots, it doesn't matter. :sad:

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:06 PM
That's so awful. How can anyone justify the fact that 50 bullets were fired. That is crazy. This makes the Jean Charles de Menesez incident look tame.

I wonder what disciplinary action the officers will face. There must be some consequences for them. Anyone know?

They could possibly face federal civil rights violation charges...I hope they do.

samsung101
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:31 PM
The cops waived the right to a jury trial. That's their decision.

It isn't over legally. There will be civil trials. Probably a federal
trial. Much like the Rodney Kind case, it will go on for years to come.
There will be more trials.

Cops have a horrible job.
But, no one wants them to be lawbreakers themselves.
I have no idea whether it's a fair verdict or not.
But, I think the Judge did come to the decision he had
to based on any doubt created in the trial by the defense team,
or left there by the prosecution.




The NYPD is not all white, it's a very mixed police force. The courts and
DA in NY are not al white either, very mixed. The entire city is, although
sections are very segregated (by choice and by tradition).

The officers had to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the higher
criminal offense standard.

The judge didn't believe the prosecution witnesses as much as they wanted
him to.


The prosecution did present a strong case, but, it also left some very big
questions in their case. Enough to leave room for doubt. If that's there, it's
not a guilty verdict.

Sorry situation all around.
The cops lives are never going to be the same.

The families of the man killed will never be the same.
Nothing will bring back Bell.


Or the recent cases in LA with the hispanic man killed (even though he
was the one holding hostages and shooting) by cops in order to end it -
the cops are still in court about why they shot him, and the child he
was holding - as he shot at them.

The high tech evidence the defense presented was strong, showing the
bullet paths, the locations, movements, etc.

moon
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:01 PM
The cops waived the right to a jury trial. That's their decision.

It isn't over legally. There will be civil trials. Probably a federal
trial. Much like the Rodney Kind case, it will go on for years to come.
There will be more trials.

Cops have a horrible job.
But, no one wants them to be lawbreakers themselves.
I have no idea whether it's a fair verdict or not.
But, I think the Judge did come to the decision he had
to based on any doubt created in the trial by the defense team,
or left there by the prosecution.




The NYPD is not all white, it's a very mixed police force. The courts and
DA in NY are not al white either, very mixed. The entire city is, although
sections are very segregated (by choice and by tradition).

The officers had to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the higher
criminal offense standard.

The judge didn't believe the prosecution witnesses as much as they wanted
him to.


The prosecution did present a strong case, but, it also left some very big
questions in their case. Enough to leave room for doubt. If that's there, it's
not a guilty verdict.

Sorry situation all around.
The cops lives are never going to be the same.

The families of the man killed will never be the same.
Nothing will bring back Bell.


Or the recent cases in LA with the hispanic man killed (even though he
was the one holding hostages and shooting) by cops in order to end it -
the cops are still in court about why they shot him, and the child he
was holding - as he shot at them.

The high tech evidence the defense presented was strong, showing the
bullet paths, the locations, movements, etc.

if I was his fiancee, I'd be filing my lawsuit tomorrow morning!:(
seems that's the only way to make people pay these days. :mad:

RVD
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:42 PM
This outcome was expected. Even by many here, so no surprise there.

And yes, it's disgusting, but what do you do when the system (again) has failed miserably and has never worked in the first place?
It's not designed to serve and protect everyone.

I feel for many in this case, but more so for the families of the dead who will never see justice served for their dead sons, and also for the bride-to-be who was on the very verge of her own life-long journey towards 'completeness' and happiness. :sad: :sad:

Let's not forget that justice is a business, and like all businesses, the rules and policies to protect itself far surpass those that would affect it's bottom line. That said, I'm sure that another two or three dead Black men at the hands of yet more corrupt cops, speaks volumes as to the valuation system this country places on this ethnic group.

What a wonderful country we live in

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Hmm... New year in NYC, same policies.

I can't recall one officer getting serious time in NYC for these bizarre shootings of black men.
And it's always black men.

When will NYC stop protecting these criminals and when will they understand that they effect how the NYPD interacts with all black people.
Noone's gonna snitch when you have officers killing black men with 30-50 bullets.

Black Mamba.
Apr 26th, 2008, 01:32 AM
This outcome was expected. Even by many here, so no surprise there.

And yes, it's disgusting, but what do you do when the system (again) has failed miserably and has never worked in the first place?
It's not designed to serve and protect everyone.

I feel for many in this case, but more so for the families of the dead who will never see justice served for their dead sons, and also for the bride-to-be who was on the very verge of her own life-long journey towards 'completeness' and happiness. :sad: :sad:

Let's not forget that justice is a business, and like all businesses, the rules and policies to protect itself far surpass those that would affect it's bottom line. That said, I'm sure that another two or three dead Black men at the hands of yet more corrupt cops, speaks volumes as to the valuation system this country places on this ethnic group.

What a wonderful country we live in

After hearing the DA's comments I really question just how strong the DA really pursued this case. Some of the decisions he made during the trial were suspect at best. I know the DA and the NYPD are in the same bed. I know me and many others predicted this result along time ago.

mykarma
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:45 PM
After hearing the DA's comments I really question just how strong the DA really pursued this case. Some of the decisions he made during the trial were suspect at best. I know the DA and the NYPD are in the same bed. I know me and many others predicted this result along time ago.
Same shit, different day. :help:

Black Mamba.
Apr 26th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Same shit, different day. :help:

No doubt the DA's effort was lackluster at best. The cops claimed there was a 4th guy with a gun but that was a lie but because the DA read their testimony into the record rather than on the stand he couldn't impeach them on the inconsistencies in their stories.

ys
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:18 PM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.

Infiniti2001
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.

Would you feel the same way if it were a family member or someone you knew ys? Somehow I don't think so :help:

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.

Umm... well blacks will never die in a high rate in a supermarket or movie theater.
We only need two black people running in one direction to run with them.
We don't ask questions. We don't go towards the issue at hand like white people.

It took 9/11 and a billard of toxic smoke for some white people to understand the concept of running.
Run like Forrest.

Yeah. My neighbprhood is so bad with so many bad people, that's why two young black men were shot and killed in Jan. even if the police acknowledged that they had no weapons.
My neighborhood is so bad that all the white Obama supporters walked up and down the streets day and night with no worries for six fucking weeks and didn't find one bad person who tried to hurt them.

mckyle.
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:28 PM
The world is so racist.

mykarma
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.
Even though you're a complete sicko I hope nothing like this ever happens to anyone in your family. They were at a legal establishment and people shouldn't have to take their chances from being murdered by the people that are suppose to protect them.

Remember that karma is a bitch.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:37 PM
Remember that karma is a bitch.

No. I think it's just you that's the bitch. :haha:
You left such an opening, I could not say no.

And I don't think wishing bad on people or their families is a way to humble a person.

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 26th, 2008, 09:42 PM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.

Well I guess you wont be visiting Moscow anytime soon...seeing it's so lawless and all...:rolleyes:


IDITO!!!!!!!

ys
Apr 26th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Would you feel the same way if it were a family member or someone you knew ys? Somehow I don't think so :help:
Even if it was me.. Fine. Fair game. My friends still go and I used to go skiing and mountaneering in Caucausian mountains.. It's well kown that people can get killed there for nothing, robbed there for nothing. We assume the risks, we take them.. Bad luck? Well, happens..

Same when I go home to Russia.. You can't rely on justice over there.. The rule is simple, stay alert and keep away from any potential trouble..

ys
Apr 26th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Even though you're a complete sicko I hope nothing like this ever happens to anyone in your family.

Same to you.

They were at a legal establishment and people shouldn't have to take their chances from being murdered by the people that are suppose to protect them.

No one was over there to protect anyone. Undercover detectives are hunters, who are trained to strike and kill without having a second thought when feeling anything close to being threatened. These guys were , apparently, not trained well enough. It should not have taken 50 bullets. As 50 bullets seems to be the major source of outrage here, I suppose, if they were well trained guys and they would slay everyone quick with 6 shots, everyone would have been so much happier, right? And, by protocol, that's what should have happened there..

Remember that karma is a bitch.
Not sure I understood this part.

mykarma
Apr 26th, 2008, 10:49 PM
Same to you.



No one was over there to protect anyone. Undercover detectives are hunters, who are trained to strike and kill without having a second thought when feeling anything close to being threatened. These guys were , apparently, not trained well enough. It should not have taken 50 bullets. As 50 bullets seems to be the major source of outrage here, I suppose, if they were well trained guys and they would slay everyone quick with 6 shots, everyone would have been so much happier, right? And, by protocol, that's what should have happened there..

Not sure I understood this part.
But the cops were there investigating the establishment not these young men. They were there for a bachelor party and weren't causing in problems with anyone and didn't deserve to die. I don't understand why these cops were feeling threatened. There was no conflict between them and the officers. It's a tragedy and happens to often in this country to men of color.

ys
Apr 26th, 2008, 11:51 PM
It's a tragedy and happens to often in this country to men of color.
My understanding that the shooters were not exactly white either..

Dunlop1
Apr 27th, 2008, 12:56 AM
My understanding that the shooters were not exactly white either..

And what does this have to do with anything?

Dunlop1
Apr 27th, 2008, 01:01 AM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.

Are you kidding me with this???
Tell me how exactly you are defining bad people? Strip joints are designed for bad people?
So when one is going to a strip club, one should assume they are going to get shot? How about a regular club in a low income black neighbourhood? Should one expect to get shot there? And if so, should they expect the perpetrator to be an actual policeman??

Please give the Bullsh1t a rest. Tough shit my ass.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 27th, 2008, 01:01 AM
And what does this have to do with anything?

Probably a lot in his/her bigot mind.
The thing is it's a lot easier to deal with someone and their issues when they're all out in the open.

Instead of what you do Dunlop which is to call people ******s in bad reps and then go in homosexual threads and pretend you understand anything about homosexuals. :wavey:

azinna
Apr 27th, 2008, 01:11 AM
After hearing the DA's comments I really question just how strong the DA really pursued this case. Some of the decisions he made during the trial were suspect at best. I know the DA and the NYPD are in the same bed. I know me and many others predicted this result along time ago.

No doubt the DA's effort was lackluster at best. The cops claimed there was a 4th guy with a gun but that was a lie but because the DA read their testimony into the record rather than on the stand he couldn't impeach them on the inconsistencies in their stories.

Hm. Interesting. I have a friend who works in the DA's office, and I may call her up and get some dirt. Would have to set aside some money for that though. She won't tell me much over a cup of coffee, but when a pitcher of good sangria is involved.....

Dunlop1
Apr 27th, 2008, 01:15 AM
Probably a lot in his/her bigot mind.
The thing is it's a lot easier to deal with someone and their issues when they're all out in the open.

Instead of what you do Dunlop which is to call people ******s in bad reps and then go in homosexual threads and pretend you understand anything about homosexuals. :wavey:

Focus on the thread topic pls. :wavey:

Black Mamba.
Apr 27th, 2008, 01:57 AM
What makes me sad about this entire situation is that it's going to happen again and again. The NYPD will keep doing this until they get held personally liable. I just wish there was a special prosecutor in this case.

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 27th, 2008, 03:25 AM
Trust me...after the elections they will be held accountable in federal and civil court.

Svetlana.
Apr 27th, 2008, 03:46 AM
Trust me...after the elections they will be held accountable in federal and civil court.

so after the election, will we have a perfect world?

mykarma
Apr 27th, 2008, 03:54 AM
My understanding that the shooters were not exactly white either..
And your point is?

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 27th, 2008, 04:22 AM
so after the election, will we have a perfect world?

I'm sure you are smart enough to know what I meant...:shrug:

lizchris
Apr 28th, 2008, 12:13 AM
The NY Post reported this morning that someone from the Sargent's Benevoent Association made a call to Nicole Bell's house and left the following message:

"HA, HA, HA"

The Association SAID they were going to investigate the allegation,but if history is an indiactor, nothing will happen because NYPD organizations are like the KKK; they dummy up when one of their own does something to a black person.

lizchris
Apr 28th, 2008, 12:17 AM
Seriously, if this had happened in a movie theater or in supermarket, I would be outraged.. But when you go to a place designed for bad people, you have to assume the risks, like that there are bad people over there, and that there are those hunting for bad people over there, and that there is a chance you could be caught in a crossfire.. The guys took their chances. Tough shit.

This is about the dumbest piece of shit you have ever posted and that is saying alot.

Just because someone goes to a strip club doesn't give a cop a right to take someone's life. If that was the case, then why are there not any shootings at Scores and Flashdancers (strip clubs in NY whose clientele just happens to be virtually all white)?

Black Mamba.
Apr 28th, 2008, 01:13 AM
The NY Post reported this morning that someone from the Sargent's Benevoent Association made a call to Nicole Bell's house and left the following message:

"HA, HA, HA"

The Association SAID they were going to investigate the allegation,but if history is an indiactor, nothing will happen because NYPD organizations are like the KKK; they dummy up when one of their own does something to a black person.

So true what is troublesome is that a police officer in charge of the operation testified that he didn't hear the other officers identify themselves nor did he see their badges. Yet the judge didn't seem to care about that.

RVD
Apr 28th, 2008, 03:16 AM
Unsure if this was already posted here are not, but I just heard a breaking news report on TV that the officers in this case never appeared before the judge. :eek: The judge read transcripts of the officers' testimonies (whatever that means) and used this rather than have the officers appear in person. However, and get this...

...The witnesses in this case were the only ones to appear before the judge!! :eek: X infinity!
Even the news reporters and TV lawyers were stumped as to why the DA and judge handled it this way.

So that raises the question as to why didn't these officers appear before the judge. Very odd indeed.

I know for a fact that testimonies are now videotaped, because I was informed of such when I went to court.
Could it be that the officers would also not have appeared credible before the judge?

Is this normal judicial procedure?!
I've never heard of such a thing in a high profile case being handled in this fashion.

This entire case stinks!
I wonder what the general mood of the Black community is over this travesty?
Can’t be good, that’s for sure.

Black Mamba.
Apr 28th, 2008, 05:17 AM
Unsure if this was already posted here are not, but I just heard a breaking news report on TV that the officers in this case never appeared before the judge. :eek: The judge read transcripts of the officers' testimonies (whatever that means) and used this rather than have the officers appear in person. However, and get this...

...The witnesses in this case were the only ones to appear before the judge!! :eek: X infinity!
Even the news reporters and TV lawyers were stumped as to why the DA and judge handled it this way.

So that raises the question as to why didn't these officers appear before the judge. Very odd indeed.

I know for a fact that testimonies are now videotaped, because I was informed of such when I went to court.
Could it be that the officers would also not have appeared credible before the judge?

Is this normal judicial procedure?!
I've never heard of such a thing in a high profile case being handled in this fashion.

This entire case stinks!
I wonder what the general mood of the Black community is over this travesty?
Canít be good, thatís for sure.

I'm by no means a legal expert. I'm just a second year law student but I can tell you that the DA really dropped the ball on this one. The DA was the one who read the police officer's grand jury testimony into the record. Based on the Federal Rules of evidence which is the model most states use, once you read testimony into the record you take any incentive for the defense attorney to have their clients take the stand. Had the DA not read their grand jury testimony into the record the defense would be forced to place the officers on the stand and have them tell their side of the story. Once they were on the stand the DA could cross examine them. By reading the statements into the record the DA essentially conceded the case because you can't cross examine the defendants unless they take the stand voluntarily. Had the DA not read the statements in the record the defense would likely be forced to have the cops testify about what happened and then they wouldn't look so believable either. No matter what the DA says the effort wasn't there.


As for what the Black community feels I can only speak for myself but I'm disappointed but not surprised. The NYPD will keep killing people and the system will continually let them off. This happens far too often but there is really nothing that can be done.

doni1212
Apr 28th, 2008, 06:04 PM
And people on this board still insist that we as blacks are equal under the law and treated fairly. :help:
Where you at now M16? :rolleyes: