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Paneru
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:50 AM
I wanted to know of the black democratic HRC supporters, what have been your experiences interacting with black democratic Obama supprters?


I've personally witnessed the gambit, and in my own family. I'm half black/half chinese and I've seen my black family memebers interact in a variety of ways. From positive respectful conversations to all out arguing and anger towards those that support Clinton instead of Obama.

I really respect the most those of my family that are passionate but can and do respect the others opinions. They simply agree to disagree, without the nastiness. It's difficult I can see for some but they do it.

Infiniti2001
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:22 AM
aww Paneru, you're Blackanese :lol: Anyway, all the black folk I know (mostly West Indian) all support HRC. However, I have one cousin in NYC who is an Obamaniac. She is one of those who find it insulting for black people to vote against BHO :rolleyes: We have heated discussions , but we're cool.

Paneru
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:34 AM
aww Paneru, you're Blackanese :lol:

Yeppers. :cool:


However, I have one cousin in NYC who is an Obamaniac. She is one of those who find it insulting for black people to vote against BHO :rolleyes: We have heated discussions , but we're cool.

Oh, That grinds on my last nerve. Would she find it
insulting for women to not vote for HRC? :lol:

Good that you two are cool. :cool:

IceSkaTennisFan
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:40 AM
I'm part black. I am openly a Hillary supporter, but I'm fine with Obama too so long as one of them steamrolls McCain int he general election. I haven't really had much negative experience with other blacks b/c of not voting for Obama. It's ironic that many had been questioning Obama's being black, yet some blacks that had disowned him before are now much more accepting of him as a winner. The bandwagon's full.

Infiniti2001
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:46 AM
Yeppers. :cool:



Oh, That grinds on my last nerve. Would she find it
insulting for women to not vote for HRC? :lol:

Good that you two are cool. :cool:

Oh I don't know about that--- We don't stay mad at each other for too long in my family :) She thinks like some black folk on this very board :eek: and when I think of it, I get it. Although she has W.I. parents she was born here and is dating an AA guy:tape:

Infiniti2001
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:48 AM
I'm part black. I am openly a Hillary supporter, but I'm fine with Obama too so long as one of them steamrolls McCain int he general election. I haven't really had much negative experience with other blacks b/c of not voting for Obama. It's ironic that many had been questioning Obama's being black, yet some blacks that had disowned him before are now much more accepting of him as a winner. The bandwagon's full.

You don't say :tape:

azinna
Apr 25th, 2008, 03:53 AM
Well, I'm still doing the 50:50 thing, or thereabouts, and so it's often about calming the maniacs on either side down. Funny enough, my friends and family of African descent just have civil back-and-forths with me. While my Euro-American friends (all masters and doctoral-degree-holders, by the way) all look at me in shock, surprise and horror when they find out that I think HRC is a reasonable candidate. I could tell a few of them were this close to saying "but you're black..." They ended up with a weak-voiced "Why?" and a weaker "You know, I'm really surprised." I'm like, no kidding, but can we have a discussion about the issues?

mirzalover
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:22 AM
My roommate is one of those that thinks anyone who has any black in them, should vote for Bama, and not voting for Bama is like a major criminal offence.

Pureracket
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:35 AM
This is funny because I had noticed a pattern of a lot of black supporters of Hillary actually being bi/multiracial or of Caribbean/West Indian/African (not Black American) descent. I wonder why that is? It makes you think. lol.:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

drake3781
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:44 AM
I don't want to state my race because I don't want my opinions here stereotyped (not that I can stop it; most black people think I am either white - and could never understand another point of view - or Chinese :p - which I find interesting). So I might be black or might not be. Anyway, I haven't talked much about the Hillary-Barack race with anybody, except a Peruvian woman, who is leaning toward Obama based on this idea of him being more apt to change things, but I told her why I support Hillary in 08 - Obama in 16 - and it may have had some effect.

Paneru
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:48 AM
Oh I don't know about that--- We don't stay mad at each other for too long in my family :) She thinks like some black folk on this very board :eek: and when I think of it, I get it. Although she has W.I. parents she was born here and is dating an AA guy:tape:

Oh, I get it too, but I just don't like it.

I was hearing the logic that he and she shared basically the
same policies and what not, so one should just vote for him.
Regardless, if you thought that she would make for the tougher
and rougher opponent to really handle the republican onslaught
that has been at her for years.

My uncle Cedric said, you may hate Hillary as a person
but she'll get everyone's respect as a politican and will
be able to get things done.

winone23
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:57 AM
I wanted to know of the black democratic HRC supporters, what have been your experiences interacting with black democratic Obama supprters?


I've personally witnessed the gambit, and in my own family. I'm half black/half chinese and I've seen my black family memebers interact in a variety of ways. From positive respectful conversations to all out arguing and anger towards those that support Clinton instead of Obama.

I really respect the most those of my family that are passionate but can and do respect the others opinions. They simply agree to disagree, without the nastiness. It's difficult I can see for some but they do it.

Hey Paneru :wavey: I didn't know you were half blk and Chinese. I just so happen to be blk with a common Chinese last name. I'm African-American and thankfully for me I have 2 sisters and a father that supports Clinton. The Obama supporters in my family want me to support Obama, but they don't give me much trouble about supporting Clinton.

winone23
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:59 AM
My uncle Cedric said, you may hate Hillary as a person
but she'll get everyone's respect as a politican and will
be able to get things done.

This is why I support Hil and voted her in the senate.

Diesel
Apr 25th, 2008, 05:02 AM
Why are black people given a hard time for supporting who they want? Do you guys give female Hillary supporters this much grief and inspection of their votes? Or is their vote given an automatic stamp of quality approval?

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 05:42 AM
Why are black people given a hard time for supporting who they want? Do you guys give female Hillary supporters this much grief and inspection of their votes? Or is their vote given an automatic stamp of quality approval?
Thank you and of course it's no problem if white females vote for Hillary, as a matter of fact, they're praised for it. It really funny is that it was never considered negative as long as blacks were voting for white candidates but how dare we think that a black man could possibilty be as good as a white woman, especially if that woman's name is Hillary. .

Infiniti2001
Apr 25th, 2008, 05:52 AM
What about the blacks who chide black Clinton supporters?

Diesel
Apr 25th, 2008, 06:12 AM
Thank you and of course it's no problem if white females vote for Hillary, as a matter of fact, they're praised for it. It really funny is that it was never considered negative as long as blacks were voting for white candidates but how dare we think that a black man could possibilty be as good as a white woman, especially if that woman's name is Hillary. .

To a Hillary supporter if you're black and support Barack Obama you only support him because he's black. You aren't basing that decision on anything but race. You don't look at policy, you don't look at ideas, you aren't smart enough like they are apparently :rolleyes: Mavericks they take themselves for deserving of a medal. White women who vote for Hillary are given a pat on the back. It's okay that I've heard some of the stupidist shit spewed from them like it's a woman's turn, Bill did her wrong so she deserves this. Black voters who vote for Hillary put themselves on a pedastal acting like they've gone against the grain or are victims for choosing Hillary but they are quick to denigrate black Obama supporters. They need to cut this elitist wannabe mess because it's not a cute look.

Ellery
Apr 25th, 2008, 06:16 AM
To a Hillary supporter if you're black and support Barack Obama you only support him because he's black. You aren't basing that decision on anything but race. You don't look at policy, you don't look at ideas, you aren't smart enough like they are apparently :rolleyes: Mavericks they take themselves for deserving of a medal. White women who vote for Hillary are given a pat on the back. It's okay that I've heard some of the stupidist shit spewed from them like it's a woman's turn, Bill did her wrong so she deserves this. Black voters who vote for Hillary put themselves on a pedastal acting like they've gone against the grain or are victims for choosing Hillary but they are quick to denigrate black Obama supporters. They need to cut this elitist wannabe mess because it's not a cute look.

What about some Black representatives who supported Hillary and who got death threats from other members of the Black community? :shrug: I haven't heard stories of female representatives getting death threats because they support Obama :confused: No doubt, many many African Americans support Obama based on his stance on issues, the same way many women support Hillary because of her stance on issues. However, I think Paneru's question is still interesting, although the other question (with regard to gender, i.e women voting for Obama) could also be asked.

Diesel
Apr 25th, 2008, 06:25 AM
What about some Black representatives who supported Hillary and who got death threats from other members of the Black community? :shrug: I haven't heard too many stories of female representatives getting death threats because they support Obama :confused:

Does the Hillary Clinton/supporter victimization never cease? When Rep Lewis came out and endorsed Barack, Hillary said she understood because he was as she put it, facing pressure. He didn't make a decision based on belief, not on Barack being a better candidate. Race. When Hillary lost in Louisiana, she said she understood. Why? Louisiana has a large black population. Black pride cost her that win. It's a shame that she put this out like that but black Hillary supporters believe it so why should she stop? As much as I despise Oprah, she was called a traitor and called out of her name by some in her wonderful audience. Female reps have felt pressure, they've had their 'sisterhood' questioned just because they didn't fall into the women for Hillary guild. Both sides have been challenged by idiots who can't accept that mob mentality doesn't rule.

winone23
Apr 25th, 2008, 07:30 AM
To a Hillary supporter if you're black and support Barack Obama you only support him because he's black. You aren't basing that decision on anything but race. You don't look at policy, you don't look at ideas, you aren't smart enough like they are apparently :rolleyes: Mavericks they take themselves for deserving of a medal. White women who vote for Hillary are given a pat on the back. It's okay that I've heard some of the stupidist shit spewed from them like it's a woman's turn, Bill did her wrong so she deserves this. Black voters who vote for Hillary put themselves on a pedastal acting like they've gone against the grain or are victims for choosing Hillary but they are quick to denigrate black Obama supporters. They need to cut this elitist wannabe mess because it's not a cute look.


Your post is wrong on so many levels and please don't generalize all black Clinton supporters. I have supported Hillary long before I knew Obama existed and I do not think that I am on a pedestal. I have personally received harsh criticism from many black people for not voting of Obama. Also I'm insulted that you think all blacks who vote for Clinton are elitist wannabes

woosey
Apr 25th, 2008, 08:02 AM
What about the blacks who chide black Clinton supporters?

they deserve it. :devil:

woosey
Apr 25th, 2008, 08:23 AM
I'm part black. I am openly a Hillary supporter, but I'm fine with Obama too so long as one of them steamrolls McCain int he general election. I haven't really had much negative experience with other blacks b/c of not voting for Obama. It's ironic that many had been questioning Obama's being black, yet some blacks that had disowned him before are now much more accepting of him as a winner. The bandwagon's full.

i don't think blacks questioned his "blackness" perse. black americans (as in the ethnic group) questioned the extent to which he was black like us. there is a difference between being a self-identified black from africa, the west indies and the u.s. they have different histories.

for black americans it has to do with lineage and coming from a particular tradition, history and culture. obama himself has distinguished between himself (son of an african) and his wife, a descendant of slaves and so someone who lives with a certain history and culture that is not his own.

black is not black is not black.

so conversation about questioning his blackness had more to do with lineage that is not aligned with that of black americans.

also, black people were squarely in the corner of billary until south carolina when they started making some dumb ass racially charged comments. i commend the black folk who decided to leave the clinton plantation after watching billary pull those insulting race cards. that's partly the reason why that obama bandwagon's full. some negroes left the plantation.

RVD
Apr 25th, 2008, 10:38 AM
To a Hillary supporter if you're black and support Barack Obama you only support him because he's black. You aren't basing that decision on anything but race. You don't look at policy, you don't look at ideas, you aren't smart enough like they are apparently :rolleyes: Mavericks they take themselves for deserving of a medal. White women who vote for Hillary are given a pat on the back. It's okay that I've heard some of the stupidist shit spewed from them like it's a woman's turn, Bill did her wrong so she deserves this. Black voters who vote for Hillary put themselves on a pedastal acting like they've gone against the grain or are victims for choosing Hillary but they are quick to denigrate black Obama supporters. They need to cut this elitist wannabe mess because it's not a cute look.Diesel, I have to agree with everything you've stated here. But particularly the highlighted text.

I'm multi-ethnic, but identify very strongly with my Black lineage. It mainly stems from shared experiences and years of exclusionary practices out there. Anyway, I hang out with a diverse group of people and we discuss the politics of America often. I Also get the chance to discuss politics with the school crowd which consists of majority white soccer moms and pissed off teachers, so I hear first-hand what you must also hear, to have stated what you have above.
That is that White women in these groups are never (and I mean NEVER) questioned as to their reasons for voting for Hillary. But again, I'm in a very unique position in that these very strong and opinionated women are open with me and offer reasons as to why they'd vote Hillary. And the answer is a resounding, "Because she's female!!!, and we have had enough of sexist men running this country!" :lol: Strangely enough, i never looked at it from a "sexist" P.O.V.

It's a good thing these ladies don't find this Black man sexist, or I fear they'd gang up and hurt a brutha. :lol:

Anyway, As I've stated in previous threads, many of these same women have changed their minds and decided Barack was/is the better choice. They just do not approve of Hillary's "...political shenanigans, and male-like tactics", as they've put it. :eek: Actually, they've stated how disgusted they were in very strongly worded discussions, but we won’t go there.
However, of course, there are still those few who don’t care what Hillary has done or will do, and insist that they will vote for her regardless of how bad the campaign is run. Just so long as a female runs the White house. :shrug:

That said, as a Black male, my family gave me grief and wondered why I was so undecided about Obama.
I told them flat out that I’m very leery of all politicians. But that I didn't like Obama because of his alliance with a certain 'turn-coat' Senator.
Anyway, it’s only been recently (a couple of months back) that I’ve given up on Hillary. She’s just surprised me with so many of her nasty tactics, race-baiting, and incredible embellishments, that I could not flat out not take it anymore.

Another thing that gets me is people saying that Hillary and Obama stand for the same thing. :scratch:
It's so very very untrue. And I just don't understand how folks could get it soooo wrong.

Ultimately, it boils down to the lessor of two the evils, yet again.

I tell ya, the quality of 'Politics' in this country is rotten to the very core. It's no wonder people are confused and hateful. Even to the point of fighting within their own party. :cuckoo:
Change would be nice, but I'm under no delusion that it'll come about within the Democrat or Republican parties, if at all.

Just give me a semi-honest leader that won't sell my kids souls to the highest bidder and shackle them with untold debts. That's all I ask.

Philbo
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Ultimately, it boils down to the lessor of two the evils, yet again.

I tell ya, the quality of 'Politics' in this country is rotten to the very core. It's no wonder people are confused and hateful. Even to the point of fighting within their own party. :cuckoo:
Change would be nice, but I'm under no delusion that it'll come about within the Democrat or Republican parties, if at all.

Just give me a semi-honest leader that won't sell my kids souls to the highest bidder and shackle them with untold debts. That's all I ask.

You should take a closer look at Ron Paul RVD - To me, he was the only candidate offering real 'change' - getting out of Iraq immediately, abolishing Fed Reserve, Abolishing the IRS, the Dept of Homeland Security etc - some of his ideas may sound radical, but if its genuine change you want, he was the only candidate offering it..

Selah
Apr 25th, 2008, 12:24 PM
aww Paneru, you're Blackanese :lol: Anyway, all the black folk I know (mostly West Indian) all support HRC. However, I have one cousin in NYC who is an Obamaniac. She is one of those who find it insulting for black people to vote against BHO :rolleyes: We have heated discussions , but we're cool.

Funny enough, I have a different experience in the actual Caribbean, although haven't spoken to most, many want Obama to win it (I even got my head kinda bitten off at the beginning when I stated that I just can't support him because he is black, and I needed to hear what he had to say), especially many of the younger people but in general people in the Caribbean really liked Bill Clinton, and I think they are like a good majority of Obama supporters that won't mind if Hilary wins. It is also of my opinion that people in the Caribbean supporting Obama probably has less to do with race (after all we have been voting for black people in office for years, our governments are all mostly black) than their counterparts in the USA who seem to continue trying to differentiate themselves from Black Americans. But that is a whole other topic that I thought was of less importance these days but obviously not so much from a comment here or there in this thread.

I have honestly only seen and heard that rabid stuff in the different fan-bases here. And infiniti, you like to knock those who support Obama about their nastiness, but you say some awfully nasty things about him too, don't play angel, lol.

Selah
Apr 25th, 2008, 12:46 PM
I'm part black. I am openly a Hillary supporter, but I'm fine with Obama too so long as one of them steamrolls McCain int he general election. I haven't really had much negative experience with other blacks b/c of not voting for Obama. It's ironic that many had been questioning Obama's being black, yet some blacks that had disowned him before are now much more accepting of him as a winner. The bandwagon's full.

Look how black supporters of Clinton continue to marginalize black supporters of Obama, I find even more so than whites. In all fairness, I think many black people only jumped on Obama's bandwagon after seeing that this is a viable candidate, equally as capable as Clinton, he's black, why not? So many women are voting for Clinton, also because she is a woman, not only because, what's wrong with that line of thinking for Black people?

RVD
Apr 25th, 2008, 01:50 PM
You should take a closer look at Ron Paul RVD - To me, he was the only candidate offering real 'change' - getting out of Iraq immediately, abolishing Fed Reserve, Abolishing the IRS, the Dept of Homeland Security etc - some of his ideas may sound radical, but if its genuine change you want, he was the only candidate offering it..

1) Getting the hell out of Iraq? - I'm in favor of that. The argument that, "...we broke it, we should fix it" at this point has shown itself to be nothing short of ridiculous. We can't even run our own elections fairly, nor create an equal, nor nearly equal society in this country, for crying out loud. Yet we force Iraq to adopt a failing Democratic-like government nonetheless?! We consider ourselves messengers of God I suppose.

2) Abolishing the Federal Reserve? - I'm down with that as well. Considering the reasoning behind the creation of such an oligarchy, I'd like to see the whole of this Capitalism completely purged rendered illegal. A system that promotes the death of a great many of its very population in oredr to function, can't be the type of nation that the framers of the Constitution was looking to create. But yeah, I know I'm dreaming.

3) Abolishing the IRS? - Where do I sign up? This is the one area (I'm not ashamed to say) makes no freak'n sense to me. Not a part of the government, yet wields powers higher than practically any government office. :scratch: Yet, look a little deeper, and we find that it is yet another governmental tool for keeping the people in line, and the majority strapped.

4) The Dept. of Homeland Security ? - Is nothing short of a security farce. Even people employed within don't understand its working or its purpose. Seems every departmental leader within its ranks knows nothing of where each line is drawn. Not only that, but it's proven time and again to not work. It failed during Katrina. It failed during the Bay Area oil spill here. Hell, it's failed every level of emergency response there is, and that it oversees. Just Google 'Homeland Security is a failure' and you get 10 fat pages of proof.

I'd support any candidate capable of eliminating any one of these.
And it's only a radical idea because it makes...
...too
...much
...sense
---in a country that's basically lost it's sense (... of purpose and direction). *SMH*

debopero
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:06 PM
I am black and I support Hillary. My mother voted for her in the priamry as well and my father (who is also black)rolled his eyes and was mad that she voted agaisnt her "own". In all honesty I genrally agree with most sentiemnt that most seem to have here:Either Democrat will be better than John McCain.
Furthermore, I find it unfair that people assume that blacks only like Obama because of his race. To me it makes it seem as if others think that African-Americans are too dense to make their own decisions in regards to poilitcs and therefore just pick someone with a similar skin color :shrug:.

Philbo
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:20 PM
1) Getting the hell out of Iraq? - I'm in favor of that. The argument that, "...we broke it, we should fix it" at this point has shown itself to be nothing short of ridiculous. We can't even run our own elections fairly, nor create an equal, nor nearly equal society in this country, for crying out loud. Yet we force Iraq to adopt a failing Democratic-like government nonetheless?! We consider ourselves messengers of God I suppose.

2) Abolishing the Federal Reserve? - I'm down with that as well. Considering the reasoning behind the creation of such an oligarchy, I'd like to see the whole of this Capitalism completely purged rendered illegal. A system that promotes the death of a great many of its very population in oredr to function, can't be the type of nation that the framers of the Constitution was looking to create. But yeah, I know I'm dreaming.

3) Abolishing the IRS? - Where do I sign up? This is the one area (I'm not ashamed to say) makes no freak'n sense to me. Not a part of the government, yet wields powers higher than practically any government office. :scratch: Yet, look a little deeper, and we find that it is yet another governmental tool for keeping the people in line, and the majority strapped.

4) The Dept. of Homeland Security ? - Is nothing short of a security farce. Even people employed within don't understand its working or its purpose. Seems every departmental leader within its ranks knows nothing of where each line is drawn. Not only that, but it's proven time and again to not work. It failed during Katrina. It failed during the Bay Area oil spill here. Hell, it's failed every level of emergency response there is, and that it oversees. Just Google 'Homeland Security is a failure' and you get 10 fat pages of proof.

I'd support any candidate capable of eliminating any one of these.
And it's only a radical idea because it makes...
...too
...much
...sense
---in a country that's basically lost it's sense (... of purpose and direction). *SMH*

Oh man you speak the truth! Amen to every f_cking word you wrote!

mykarma
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:27 PM
Funny enough, I have a different experience in the actual Caribbean, although haven't spoken to most, many want Obama to win it (I even got my head kinda bitten off at the beginning when I stated that I just can't support him because he is black, and I needed to hear what he had to say), especially many of the younger people but in general people in the Caribbean really liked Bill Clinton, and I think they are like a good majority of Obama supporters that won't mind if Hilary wins. It is also of my opinion that people in the Caribbean supporting Obama probably has less to do with race (after all we have been voting for black people in office for years, our governments are all mostly black) than their counterparts in the USA who seem to continue trying to differentiate themselves from Black Americans. But that is a whole other topic that I thought was of less importance these days but obviously not so much from a comment here or there in this thread.

I have honestly only seen and heard that rabid stuff in the different fan-bases here. And infiniti, you like to knock those who support Obama about their nastiness, but you say some awfully nasty things about him too, don't play angel, lol.
Very unbiased post and hopefully one day race won't matter in this country either.If Barack was white it's no way in hell that Hillary would still be in this race. It would have been a land slide by now.

I like many others were initially for Hillary supporters until we heard what Obama had to say and when the real Bill Clinton showed his true side. After we became Barack supporters all of a sudden we became racist because of course there is no way in hell that Barack could ever be as good or better than a white woman. It's been said on this board that he wasn't smart enough in spite of his credentials. What's so sad about it is that this sort of racism is so ingrained in America's psyche that most don't even realize that it's there.

Sometimes I get very annoyed with Barack for not striking back but as a black man he knows that if he did he'd be run out of town on a rail. We even have posters on this board that almost have tantrums if Barack says something about Hillary and then call him out about not bowing down to her and her supporters for the good of the party.

Look how black supporters of Clinton continue to marginalize black supporters of Obama, I find even more so than whites
You've heard of self hate and the uncle tom syndrome haven't you.
. In all fairness, I think many black people only jumped on Obama's bandwagon after seeing that this is a viable candidate, equally as capable as Clinton, he's black, why not? So many women are voting for Clinton, also because she is a woman, not only because, what's wrong with that line of thinking for Black people?

:shrug:

Paneru
Apr 25th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Look how black supporters of Clinton continue to marginalize black supporters of Obama, I find even more so than whites. In all fairness, I think many black people only jumped on Obama's bandwagon after seeing that this is a viable candidate, equally as capable as Clinton, he's black, why not? So many women are voting for Clinton, also because she is a woman, not only because, what's wrong with that line of thinking for Black people?

Well, many can only speak from their own personal experiences.
What one experiences can not be denied but also does not
necessarily represent the masses.

The bottomline is that everyone's vote is their own. And however they come to their conclusions as to whom to vote for is their own. They have every right w/o having to make any apologies. That also however means that those who voice their opinions open themselves up to the scrutiny of others opinions of their opinions. The issue's come when assumptions are made based on stereotypes and preconceived notions.

The problem IMO comes when others begin slamming others for their choices. they have every right to do so, but it doesn't make it right.
And coming from the first hand experience of simply my family memebers
I've seen Obama supporters openly say they want him because he is black while others prefer his politics and policies to her's. I simply questioned those who are voting for him because he's black questioning others that are black that aren't voting for him. One family memeber called another a "traitor" for not supporting Obama.

People need to be able to respect differences of opinions. And its been my experience that when the critiwues of why so and so are voting for one or the other that all this stuff begins.

What you see in minorities in the States that you don't often seen much at all regarding whites in the US is that whites are looked at in an entire spectrum while minorities are looked at in narrow scopes.
And when one steps outside that narrow scope it raisies eyebrows and thus things begin rolling from there. It's something i wish in the US and the world would begin changing.

Vlover
Apr 25th, 2008, 04:28 PM
I guess we have been so stereotyped to be one monolithic group that we tend to believe it ourselves sometimes. "Black" in America today is very multicultural also because I fall in the bi-racial, Caribbean group and associate with mainly Caribbean relative and friends and most are split in their support for various reasons.

Obama being black for me is just icing on the cake. Firstly any eloquent articulate speaker will get my attention. Then his authentic, inspirational and motivational delivery gets me going. Next his message of unity, justice, emphasis on education and willingness to talk of change of the MINDSET in Washington have me completely hooked. Will he be able to successfully accomplish this I don't know but at least he is willing to give it a try.

I just don't understand why people are willing to deride a message of HOPE of something BETTER instead of fear, hatred and divisiveness that we have been experiencing for centuries now. Many of us thirst for something new and different and that is the main reason many of us support him. Of course his "blackness" does represent a certain connection for blacks but lets face it how many of us are would be as passionate about Condi Rice a black woman:lol:or even Colin Powell someone who I respect but I doubt I would vote for if it were he against Hillary.

To be honest I'm fine with those who support Hillary but when they say they would support McCain over the Democratic nominee then you have totally lost me because the DIFFERENCES are so VAST that I just can't comprehend the intellectual, rational, logical mindset of such.:confused::tape::help:

Diesel
Apr 25th, 2008, 05:42 PM
That is that White women in these groups are never (and I mean NEVER) questioned as to their reasons for voting for Hillary. But again, I'm in a very unique position in that these very strong and opinionated women are open with me and offer reasons as to why they'd vote Hillary. And the answer is a resounding, "Because she's female!!!, and we have had enough of sexist men running this country!" :lol: Strangely enough, i never looked at it from a "sexist" P.O.V.


RVD, this is what kills me. White women who vote for Hillary are not questioned. Their support is a given. Their support isn't seen as negative. When Barack Obama receives a large majority of black votes in any state, that vote/support is looked upon as less, it's looked upon as negative and it's looked upon as people who blindly vote based on race. That is condescending, it's insulting. If a female voter, if she's white/black/asian what have you, has an opinion that they vote for Hillary because it's time that a woman lead or just because Hillary is a woman, then there shouldn't be shade thrown towards anybody who is black who prefers to see a black man be president in their time. Both should be on equal footing - but we see that's not the case.



That said, as a Black male, my family gave me grief and wondered why I was so undecided about Obama.
I told them flat out that I’m very leery of all politicians. But that I didn't like Obama because of his alliance with a certain 'turn-coat' Senator.
Anyway, it’s only been recently (a couple of months back) that I’ve given up on Hillary. She’s just surprised me with so many of her nasty tactics, race-baiting, and incredible embellishments, that I could not flat out not take it anymore.

I wasn't a Barack Obama supporter. I remembered him from 2004. I knew what his name meant in Swahili :lol: That's about it. I assumed Hillary woudl be the nominee and I was fine with that because I was cool with the good candidates the Democrates had from Edwards to Kucinich to Obama and Clinton. The more I saw, the more I liked and the more the possibility became reality that this man could be President. Hillary and Bill showing themselves to be strangers didn't help by the way.

Another thing that gets me is people saying that Hillary and Obama stand for the same thing. :scratch:
It's so very very untrue. And I just don't understand how folks could get it soooo wrong.

If this were true, you wouldn't see a larger percentage of Hillary supporters claim that if Obama is the nominee they will vote McCain. Seems like they see Hillary and McCain as one in the same.

RVD, the home stretch has reminded me why I dislike politics, but I've been more disappointed in the Democratic Party and what we as a people claim we want but settle for.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 25th, 2008, 09:52 PM
To a Hillary supporter if you're black and support Barack Obama you only support him because he's black. You aren't basing that decision on anything but race. You don't look at policy, you don't look at ideas, you aren't smart enough like they are apparently :rolleyes: Mavericks they take themselves for deserving of a medal. White women who vote for Hillary are given a pat on the back. It's okay that I've heard some of the stupidist shit spewed from them like it's a woman's turn, Bill did her wrong so she deserves this. Black voters who vote for Hillary put themselves on a pedastal acting like they've gone against the grain or are victims for choosing Hillary but they are quick to denigrate black Obama supporters. They need to cut this elitist wannabe mess because it's not a cute look.

That's absolutely not true.
Hillary supporters do not make assumptions like that, we do it on trial to trial basis.
Like I mentioned previously, my grandmother asked me to go into the booth for her Tuesday and press Obama for her.
I didn't have to ask questions. I did it.
My grandmother is intelligent.
She's been thru a lot that I haven't been thru in her 73 years, whatever reason she has is good enough for me.

My cousin on the other hand just got out of jail and is as ignorant as he can be.
My aunt was so mad that his ass would not use his access card to go grocery shopping that she wished he was in there another 5 years. :lol:
So he said something stupid (about blacks not being able to vote in the next election after this) and when he left my grandmother (an Obama supporter), my Aunt (Hillary supporter), and me laughed our ass off.
He was one of "those".

We don't act like we've gone against the grain. :lol:
But when black Obama supporters act like they're insulted you're not supporting Obama and then give you that accusational WHY which many on here do as well, their is an outside looking in feeling that occurs.

Not victims, we don't feel as comfortable as black Obama supporters for supporting Hillary.
Like I've mentioned before, there was only one Hillary poster up in all of Germantown/Mt. Airy [which by the way I was told (I was eavesdropping) on the bus to Bmore from an Obama organizer who was in the Germantown area that Obama won the area 6:1 but turnout was only 62%], was in the street torn into pieces.
It's just another example of Obama supporters being aggressive and some of us do not like to get into arguments in the street just for our opinions.

I haven't denigrated JUSTICE4ALL even when his comments have gotten out of hand on this forum or in the aol chatrooms.
You just happened to forget that the serious comments from some that you're a traitor or Uncle Tom from black Obama supporters are common. :lol: Cute.
If you choose Obama that's fine, the Hillary supporters in general are not as aggressive and even on here, besides In The Zone, we have not implied that the reason Obama supporters are voting for Obama is because he's black.

So we're elitist yet we have no problem with Hillary fighting her ass off for this nomination. :lol:
The entitlement has switched from Hillary to Obama if you really want to be real about it.

You know your whole post is about one-sided wrongs.
I'be heard black people and others say that the reason they're not voting for Hillary even on here (even from Michelle Obama for christ's sakes) is because she can't clean up her own house, so how can she do so on White House.

It's so disgusting to put a women down like that.
There is a consistent history of presidents cheating but that's fine but when I women gets cheated on, she can't "clean house".
Both opinions are wrong.
And this is a problem with some of you Obama supporters, you can do no wrong or you see no wrong with the wrongs that happen on your side.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 25th, 2008, 10:30 PM
1) Getting the hell out of Iraq? - I'm in favor of that. The argument that, "...we broke it, we should fix it" at this point has shown itself to be nothing short of ridiculous. We can't even run our own elections fairly, nor create an equal, nor nearly equal society in this country, for crying out loud. Yet we force Iraq to adopt a failing Democratic-like government nonetheless?! We consider ourselves messengers of God I suppose.

2) Abolishing the Federal Reserve? - I'm down with that as well. Considering the reasoning behind the creation of such an oligarchy, I'd like to see the whole of this Capitalism completely purged rendered illegal. A system that promotes the death of a great many of its very population in oredr to function, can't be the type of nation that the framers of the Constitution was looking to create. But yeah, I know I'm dreaming.

3) Abolishing the IRS? - Where do I sign up? This is the one area (I'm not ashamed to say) makes no freak'n sense to me. Not a part of the government, yet wields powers higher than practically any government office. :scratch: Yet, look a little deeper, and we find that it is yet another governmental tool for keeping the people in line, and the majority strapped.

4) The Dept. of Homeland Security ? - Is nothing short of a security farce. Even people employed within don't understand its working or its purpose. Seems every departmental leader within its ranks knows nothing of where each line is drawn. Not only that, but it's proven time and again to not work. It failed during Katrina. It failed during the Bay Area oil spill here. Hell, it's failed every level of emergency response there is, and that it oversees. Just Google 'Homeland Security is a failure' and you get 10 fat pages of proof.

I'd support any candidate capable of eliminating any one of these.
And it's only a radical idea because it makes...
...too
...much
...sense
---in a country that's basically lost it's sense (... of purpose and direction). *SMH*

1) History has a tendency to repeat itself.
Who knows what would have happened if we actually stayed in Cuba the original 20 years we were suppose to after the Spanish-American war.
We already know that realistically the only way that Iraq is going to stay the way it is with three distinct people living in one country is through another dictator.
The chances of this one being more sensible than Hussein is highly unlikely.
We made the mistake once.
If having a communist country right under our nose wasn't enough, do we need to have another middle east bomb with Iraq and a chance at WW III?

BTW, it's not a fear tactic to show the reality of a situation.
Hussein wasn't as bad as people made him out to be and if you're assuming that when we leave that someone better than him will come out of it, you're sadly mistaken.

2) Yeah. You're dreaming.
I wish people would stop taking the name of the framers of the Constitution as if they would have had different idea in modern times.
They had slaves and you might have been one of them. :lol:
They pretty much demolished a whole generation of indians on the east coast.
They didn't care if these people were on the land as long as they didn't assume they owned it.
They were only looking out for themselves, using Locke as a cover.

3) We will never get to the standards of the Scandavian countries without higher taxes.
We will never get to cleaner fuel standards without taxes.
In either case the majority of Americans don't want to scarifice the money they make to make America and this world better in general.
Even if we did, who is going to make sure that everyone is paying?
The democrats are in the same situation they were in 2004, Republicans outright say they will cut, Democrats say they could or have to "look into it".

4) I think you'll find out that many Departments made in the last 30-40 years have had failures.
The Department of Veterans Affairs is among one of them.

RVD
Apr 25th, 2008, 10:57 PM
I guess we have been so stereotyped to be one monolithic group that we tend to believe it ourselves sometimes. "Black" in America today is very multicultural also because I fall in the bi-racial, Caribbean group and associate with mainly Caribbean relative and friends and most are split in their support for various reasons.

Obama being black for me is just icing on the cake. Firstly any eloquent articulate speaker will get my attention. Then his authentic, inspirational and motivational delivery gets me going. Next his message of unity, justice, emphasis on education and willingness to talk of change of the MINDSET in Washington have me completely hooked. Will he be able to successfully accomplish this I don't know but at least he is willing to give it a try.

I just don't understand why people are willing to deride a message of HOPE of something BETTER instead of fear, hatred and divisiveness that we have been experiencing for centuries now. Many of us thirst for something new and different and that is the main reason many of us support him. Of course his "blackness" does represent a certain connection for blacks but lets face it how many of us are would be as passionate about Condi Rice a black woman:lol:or even Colin Powell someone who I respect but I doubt I would vote for if it were he against Hillary.

To be honest I'm fine with those who support Hillary but when they say they would support McCain over the Democratic nominee then you have totally lost me because the DIFFERENCES are so VAST that I just can't comprehend the intellectual, rational, logical mindset of such.:confused::tape::help:I just don't understand why people are willing to deride a message of HOPE of something BETTER instead of fear, hatred and divisiveness that we have been experiencing for centuries now. Many of us thirst for something new and different and that is the main reason many of us support him. Of course his "blackness" does represent a certain connection for blacks but lets face it how many of us are would be as passionate about Condi Rice a black woman:lol:or even Colin Powell someone who I respect but I doubt I would vote for if it were he against Hillary.Very eloquently stated, and right on the money for me as a Black male.

Look, isn't it natural that African Americans, with shared experiences, hopes, dreams, and desires, give another African American support. Chinese do it. Japanese do it. Koreans do it. Whites do it. Indians, Scottish, Mexicans, etc... have all voted based on shared experiences and understandings of their respective cultures/groups, in this way and in this country. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Blacks can be just as intelligent, knowledgeable, and politically aware when deciding on the same complex issues of politics?

And 'YES', hope is the last thing some people have left in this country. Let me put it this way...

When I look at the homeless on the street, I see an overwhelming 'color' represented there.
When I view the multiple media markets (and available research resources) on prison and jail populations, I see a representative 'color' there. Just these two areas alone, represent MILLIONS of Blacks without a voice because both groups are excluded from participating in the Presidential voting process. And of course both groups represent a huge African American population.

So when people start with the ‘ol “Blacks are just voting for him because he’s Black.”
I want to fire back with, “Well, wait a minute now. You don’t give him a job; you incarcerate him; deny him loans; deny him cab rides; and profile him because he’s Black!” :shrug:
Give me a break here.

And remember now, Blacks were the ONLY group, in-mass, that didn't vote for Bush. ;)
So we must know something basic that's being missed by the general public. :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:01 PM
Next his message of unity, justice, emphasis on education and willingness to talk of change of the MINDSET in Washington have me completely hooked. Will he be able to successfully accomplish this I don't know but at least he is willing to give it a try.

I just don't understand why people are willing to deride a message of HOPE of something BETTER instead of fear, hatred and divisiveness that we have been experiencing for centuries now. Many of us thirst for something new and different and that is the main reason many of us support him. Of course his "blackness" does represent a certain connection for blacks but lets face it how many of us are would be as passionate about Condi Rice a black woman:lol:or even Colin Powell someone who I respect but I doubt I would vote for if it were he against Hillary.

To be honest I'm fine with those who support Hillary but when they say they would support McCain over the Democratic nominee then you have totally lost me because the DIFFERENCES are so VAST that I just can't comprehend the intellectual, rational, logical mindset of such.:confused::tape::help:

Who said that Hillary isn't trying to do the same. :lol:
Just because she's not out there like that with views of uniting and hope doesn't mean it's not apart of her agenda.
Like I've mentioned before the reality of the situation is that unity in this country will likely not come until 40-50 year later, when whites become a minority in this country and hopefully their power is dimished.
So really what's the point of her proclaiming she can do anything drastic about it in 4-8 years?

Both Hillary and McCain have experience.
Some value McCain on his experience in the military.
Not to be rude but sometimes advisors have their own agendas at hand (Henry Kissenger) and you have to trust your own gut feeling and when it comes to the military Obama doesn't have it all there.

McCain has special interest groups in the back of his pocket? And...
Do you really think a campaign without them will make them less powerful? :lol:
It's just done for peace of mind.
They still have the senators and house reps.
They still can find a way to influence votes and voters if they really want to do that.
They have plans A, B, C, and D and when it comes to the oil companies, they've been doing this for over 100 years, they know what they're doing.
Even Obama has said they're going to be the toughest people to confront if he becomes president.
They're not going to go away.

Why do people proclaim there's a message of fear when there's a lot of truth to it? :lol:

1) We are in a recession. It's not going to be easy to get out of it.
People made risky choices in good times and now the whole country has to make up for it.
2) There are areas in this world that have to be watched and contained.
It would be nice if we could help out in Darfur but we made a mistake with Iraq. Our troops are stretched out to the max and Russia is playing games that could cause serious repercusions later on.
BTW, I would like to mention the apparent dissapearance of Obama supporters besides Volcana, Rocketta (who might just be on the fence), and kiwi, when it comes to international affairs threads on this forum.

Just because you won't acknowledge that they exist, doesn't mean they'll go away. :lol:

3) We have to do something about global warming NOW.
If it means being taxed heavily, deal with it.

And honestly since I don't feel that neither presidental candidate will be going as aggressively as they need to be against global warming, what's the point of going after McCain for his views.

Infiniti2001
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:17 PM
Funny enough, I have a different experience in the actual Caribbean, although haven't spoken to most, many want Obama to win it (I even got my head kinda bitten off at the beginning when I stated that I just can't support him because he is black, and I needed to hear what he had to say), especially many of the younger people but in general people in the Caribbean really liked Bill Clinton, and I think they are like a good majority of Obama supporters that won't mind if Hilary wins. It is also of my opinion that people in the Caribbean supporting Obama probably has less to do with race (after all we have been voting for black people in office for years, our governments are all mostly black) than their counterparts in the USA who seem to continue trying to differentiate themselves from Black Americans. But that is a whole other topic that I thought was of less importance these days but obviously not so much from a comment here or there in this thread.

I have honestly only seen and heard that rabid stuff in the different fan-bases here. And infiniti, you like to knock those who support Obama about their nastiness, but you say some awfully nasty things about him too, don't play angel, lol.

Of course I've stated reasons why I don't care for him :shrug: I even had a scribbled pic of his as my avatar, and I refer to his supporters as obamaniacs--- but for the most part I pretty much ignore them :rolleyes:

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:38 PM
Look, isn't it natural that African Americans, with shared experiences, hopes, dreams, and desires, give another African American support. Chinese do it. Japanese do it. Koreans do it. Whites do it. Indians, Scottish, Mexicans, etc... have all voted based on shared experiences and understandings of their respective cultures/groups, in this way and in this country. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Blacks can be just as intelligent, knowledgeable, and politically aware when deciding on the same complex issues of politics?


And remember now, Blacks were the ONLY group, in-mass, that didn't vote for Bush. ;)
So we must know something basic that's being missed by the general public. :lol:

I really wish that people would end that annoying joke.

When Reagan had no policies for blacks, we didn't vote for him.
When Dubya had no policies for blacks, we didn't vote for him.

We were left out thus it seemed stupid to vote for them.

Just because other demographics voted for him, doesn't make them stupid.
You yourself seem to have issues with taxes, so you would think you could understand how tempting something like that could be.
Me, I didn't fall for it, but I have the open-mind to understand those voters.

You named six groups who have realized that the odds of them having a president who looks like them will never happen in their lifetime and yet they continue on leading for the most part the best lives that they can.

The problem is four of those groups, koreans, japanese, chinese, and mexicans, seem to not care about your certain agenda.

I wonder why that is?

Me.
I think it has something to do with an interaction.
How do you think someone in a chinese "restuarant" would feel that some black people basically yell at them because they assume that it would help the "chinese" person understand what they're saying.
Of course that the fact that they're not deaf never occurs to them.

Or when you curse an "oriental" person out, because your pedicure is going a bit too rough or the water is too hot.

Or when every hispanic you see you assume is mexican, puerto rican, or dominican.

And it goes on and on...
That stuff adds up.

*JR*
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:42 PM
After the way Bill Clinton has played the race card, blacks for Hillary is like Indians for Custer. :tape:

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 25th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Of course I've stated reasons why I don't care for him :shrug: I even had a scribbled pic of his as my avatar, and I refer to his supporters as obamaniacs--- but for the most part I pretty much ignore them :rolleyes:

Another assumption. We HIllary supporters have never said we were innocent in nasty remarks.
At the same time, we try not to make it personal.

If you call me an Uncle Tom though, you're going to get a nasty personal remark back.

mykarma
Apr 26th, 2008, 02:02 AM
After the way Bill Clinton has played the race card, blacks for Hillary is like Indians for Custer. :tape:
:lol:

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:28 AM
Another assumption. We HIllary supporters have never said we were innocent in nasty remarks.
At the same time, we try not to make it personal.


Which is a concept some simply aren't willing to acknowledge.

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:45 AM
After the way Bill Clinton has played the race card, blacks for Hillary is like Indians for Custer. :tape:

Wow. :lol:

The man says, "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here." and suddenly he's public enemy No.1 to black people?

Bill Clinton:
"We were talking about South Carolina political history and this was used out of context and twisted for political purposes by the Obama campaign to try to breed resentment elsewhere. And you know, do I regret saying it? No. Do I regret that it was used that way? I certainly do. But you really got to go some to try to portray me as a racist."

They ran with it in the assumption that he simply meant that Obama like Jackson would lose as well ultimately. And that was more than enough to negate some's very own words regarding him as the "1st Black President". And suddenly anything and everything he did for Civil Rights was bad or of no value.

It's just really interesting how some of the same that bash Bill Clinton have and still go to bat defending Wright's comments regarding Hillary & Race. And then still be so outraged with Imus who was no better than Wright, but didn't get the same pass.

It's like I've been saying, many hypocracies have shown
themselves with this race for the White House.

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:52 AM
To be honest I'm fine with those who support Hillary but when they say they would support McCain over the Democratic nominee then you have totally lost me because the DIFFERENCES are so VAST that I just can't comprehend the intellectual, rational, logical mindset of such.:confused::tape::help:

To be fair, a % of Obama supporters have said the same or
even on this board, will stay home if Hillary in the nominee
come November.

And if we are getting to spouses as some have already, Michelle Obama then cannot be allowed off the hook. She said herself that she doesn't know if she'd support Hillary if she were the nominee. And I would think following what you said, stay home or not supporting the nominee would be the same as voting for McCain.

So, if we are to get on the democrats on either side that say such things, than MRS.Obama must not be left out for basically saying the same. So, it obvious the voters aren't the only one's playing this game.

woosey
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:53 AM
After the way Bill Clinton has played the race card, blacks for Hillary is like Indians for Custer. :tape:

basically.

which is why i look askance at the blacks still supporting her candidacy. and the last one ad, where she pulled out the osama bin laden image in her commercial, was just horrible.

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:57 AM
basically.

which is why i look askance at the blacks still supporting her candidacy. and the last one ad, where she pulled out the osama bin laden image in her commercial, was just horrible.

Should Clinton supporters denie Obama if he is the nominee based on the words of his wife? If so in the same vein as you,
then McCain would indeed be President.

And ofcourse you play right into your own assumptions.
What you wanted to see rather than what you saw.

Bin Laden last time I checked was still someone the US is after.
And is apart of all the economical, social, political, ect....
issues either of the three will have to deal with. And she thinks
she is the best.

Yet, this is where the campaign is, see what
you want to see. And it's fine. To each his own.

woosey
Apr 26th, 2008, 04:33 AM
Wow. :lol:

The man says, "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here." and suddenly he's public enemy No.1 to black people?

Bill Clinton:


They ran with it in the assumption that he simply meant that Obama like Jackson would lose as well ultimately. And that was more than enough to negate some's very own words regarding him as the "1st Black President". And suddenly anything and everything he did for Civil Rights was bad or of no value.

It's just really interesting how some of the same that bash Bill Clinton have and still go to bat defending Wright's comments regarding Hillary & Race. And then still be so outraged with Imus who was no better than Wright, but didn't get the same pass.

It's like I've been saying, many hypocracies have shown
themselves with this race for the White House.


i don't think you are understanding the larger issue here - what billary has been trying to do since then and the reason why they never thought obama would be a factor...

billary is trying to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of nonblacks - saying he's the candidate of those people over there and insisting that billary can carry a broader spectrum. more importantly, they are saying billary can carry the blue collar whites, because she is one of them and barack of course is not. it is subtle but it is there, definitely.

it borders on the barry goldwater (and general republican) strategy of the 60s which is the one responsible for repolarizing the electorate and driving blacks to the democratic party and southern whites and white folks like the ones in pennsylvania/ohio to the republican party. it was called the "southern strategy."

billary is using this crap to good effect.

she had a surrogate, geraldine ferraro, insist that obama would not be anywhere if he were not black - well of course that does not sit well with blue collar bitter whites who think blacks are getting over on them because of affirmative action, etc.

then you've got the way billary constantly talks up the fact that barack does well in the south because of the blacks - ignoring the his wins in virginia, wisconsin, illinois, etc.

she is deliberately making the case to whites (and to a lesser extent hispanics) that a black man cannot win the votes of whites.

none of this should come as a surprise though. hillary rodham was a lover of barry goldwater in her college days.

billary is not dumb or naive. billary knows what billary is doing.

and i'm sorry, what did wright say that was racist? i missed that one.

but i'm glad the majority of black folk know when they are being clowned.

woosey
Apr 26th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Should Clinton supporters denie Obama if he is the nominee based on the words of his wife? If so in the same vein as you,
then McCain would indeed be President.

And ofcourse you play right into your own assumptions.
What you wanted to see rather than what you saw.

Bin Laden last time I checked was still someone the US is after.
And is apart of all the economical, social, political, ect....
issues either of the three will have to deal with. And she thinks
she is the best.

Yet, this is where the campaign is, see what
you want to see. And it's fine. To each his own.

i saw exactly what billary wanted blue collar white america wanted to see - the correlation between a black man named barack hussein obama and osama bin laden.

you are totally naive if you think these commercials are not meant to play on fears and latent prejudices.

moreover, michele obama is not the one running for office. i also don't have a problem with what michele obama said - she is basically saying she has never been so proud of her country as now - people are voting in droves and they are voting for a black man to be president and a black woman to be first lady, essentially. considering this country's shit foreign policies, it's record of racism, it's mounting inequalities of all kinds, i would say this is a moment that would make me particularly proud of this country. for sure.

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2008, 05:22 AM
i saw exactly what billary wanted blue collar white america wanted to see - the correlation between a black man named barack hussein obama and osama bin laden.

you are totally naive if you think these commercials are not meant to play on fears and latent prejudices.

moreover, michele obama is not the one running for office. i also don't have a problem with what michele obama said - she is basically saying she has never been so proud of her country as now - people are voting in droves and they are voting for a black man to be president and a black woman to be first lady, essentially. considering this country's shit foreign policies, it's record of racism, it's mounting inequalities of all kinds, i would say this is a moment that would make me particularly proud of this country. for sure.


Bill said what he said, and it was taken by Obama
and his supporters as what they perceived it to be.

Two spouses campaigning for their loved one and
Michelle gets a pass and the benefit of the doubt
but Bill gets no such thing.

Hillary is negative, while Barack is simply
responding to her negativity with is own.
She started it.

Oh so it's all based on assumptions and hypocracy.
Say no more, I get it.

Hillary the "cold and calculating politician" &
Obama (as Michelle said) the "unifiying soul fixer".

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 26th, 2008, 05:29 AM
i don't think you are understanding the larger issue here - what billary has been trying to do since then and the reason why they never thought obama would be a factor...

billary is trying to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of nonblacks - saying he's the candidate of those people over there and insisting that billary can carry a broader spectrum. more importantly, they are saying billary can carry the blue collar whites, because she is one of them and barack of course is not. it is subtle but it is there, definitely.

it borders on the barry goldwater (and general republican) strategy of the 60s which is the one responsible for repolarizing the electorate and driving blacks to the democratic party and southern whites and white folks like the ones in pennsylvania/ohio to the republican party. it was called the "southern strategy."

billary is using this crap to good effect.

she had a surrogate, geraldine ferraro, insist that obama would not be anywhere if he were not black - well of course that does not sit well with blue collar bitter whites who think blacks are getting over on them because of affirmative action, etc.

then you've got the way billary constantly talks up the fact that barack does well in the south because of the blacks - ignoring the his wins in virginia, wisconsin, illinois, etc.

she is deliberately making the case to whites (and to a lesser extent hispanics) that a black man cannot win the votes of whites.

none of this should come as a surprise though. hillary rodham was a lover of barry goldwater in her college days.

billary is not dumb or naive. billary knows what billary is doing.

and i'm sorry, what did wright say that was racist? i missed that one.

but i'm glad the majority of black folk know which they are being clowned.

I have a problem taking anyone seriously who speaks about anyone in third person especially if that person technically doesn't exist.
It's that Shaq creepiness.

The last comment is again another stab at black Hillary supporters.
You don't have try to bring us down just because we don't agree with you.
We're not duped. We know what we're getting ourselves into.
We just feel regardless of Hillary flaws, she's not the worst thing that could happen to America.
The possibility of empty promises is less with her than other candidate, democrat or republican.

Hillary carries higher with hispanics, asians, white females and has been half and half with white males in the primaries and this trend happened BEFORE South Carolina.
She can carry a broader nationwide spectrum whether you like it or not.
You Obama supporters can continue to put out these polls that a certain amount of people will never vote for her but you don't win New Jersey, PA, and Ohio by 10 if that's really the case.

The Barry Goldwater strategy doesn't work in the south anymore, that's republican territory.
I mentioned this before PA and you don't seem to get it but I live here.
Barack was never going to win PA against Hillary.
The hicks out count the rest of the state.
If you don't pander to them just a little, he'll lose this state to McCain seriously.
He has to come into this state like Gov. Casey and be willing to do some things he might not particularly agree with rural voters.
At some point he has to assume that black voters will vote for him, stay out of the of the cities and go after rural communities.
Obama would have gotten 6:1 in my area of the city without any help from Obama organizers who were here weeks before Ohio and Texas even finished.
I was listening to the Obama organizer and he talked about working his ass off but requesting to be in Philadelphia so he wouldn't be "bored".
When you're trying to win a war you go where you're needed, there's no preference. :lol:
Like that was really a sacrifice.
Obama might be organized but the people under him have the wrong idea.

BTW, Virginia is a southern state.
Usually anything under the Mason-Dixon line and the Ohio river and east of the Mississippi River is considered the South by a majority of people including those in the south.
And if you really think Obama can win a state with a high military sector, that's an assumption that will have McCain in office in Jan.

If you can't hold your own state in a democratic primary then you don't belong in the race. :lol:
That's why Biden gave it up and Edwards as well.
So Winconsin went for Obama.
The assumption that some of these states will go for Obama in the general election is a silly acessment.
North Dakota. Really now?
Texas.
Indiana.

BTW, I don't understand this concept of a "clean" race by the democrats.
Do you really think McCain is going to have a clean race in his last serious chance at president of the US. :lol:.
He's going to use every shit in the book that Dubya used against him in 2000 to get the Republican nom.
He's setting Obama up if he wins this nomination.

Oh let's have a fair race. SIKE. :lol:
You might be bitter at the Republicans for doing what they did but some strategy if Hillary has one is better than the no plan B the democrats had for the last two elections.
You can't play this race like James Blake plays tennis.
You have to have a plan B and possibly win ugly.

The big difference between what some black extremist said about whites and what rev. wright said is they didn't bring God into the equation.
They used rational throughout history and internationally to make their point known.
They didn't say God Damn America and I don't have to be a rocket scientist to know what demographic he would like God to damn in America.

There's a consistentcy in this country to go after people who hide behind God's word to say or do things that aren't God like.
Damning any demographic is not what Jesus preached.
Taking advantage of children is not what Jesus preached.
Taking people's money and using it for yourself and not the congregation is not what Jesus preached.

So Rev. Wright can say the media was being unfair to him, well here's a thought, don't say or do stupid shit especially in this day and age where everything is taped including the media who has to take their criticism as well.
Noone is saved when it comes scrutiny especially in politics.

Donny
Apr 26th, 2008, 05:58 AM
I've literally never met a black Clinton supporter in real life.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 26th, 2008, 01:02 PM
I've literally never met a black Clinton supporter in real life.

If Obama wins the black vote 9:1 in every state, then honestly they're like gays, you should have met one by now unless you live in a box.
That is unless you don't have 10 black friends which is possible as well. :tape:

Pureracket
Apr 26th, 2008, 01:20 PM
To be fair, a % of Obama supporters have said the same or
even on this board, will stay home if Hillary in the nominee
come November.

And if we are getting to spouses as some have already, Michelle Obama then cannot be allowed off the hook. She said herself that she doesn't know if she'd support Hillary if she were the nominee. And I would think following what you said, stay home or not supporting the nominee would be the same as voting for McCain.

So, if we are to get on the democrats on either side that say such things, than MRS.Obama must not be left out for basically saying the same. So, it obvious the voters aren't the only one's playing this game.Paneru,
Stop spinning the youtube video. Michelle was simply saying that she didn't know if she would quit her job and work for Hillary. That's what she meant by "support." This is the third or fourth time I've seen you post this crap about Michelle, and I'm surprised nobody has called you on it yet.:rolleyes:

Pureracket
Apr 26th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Paneru,
I think this is a good thread idea.

harloo
Apr 26th, 2008, 01:55 PM
The OP's attempt to portray Obama supporters as mindless cult followers is indicative of a larger mentality in white america. It is believed that most black Obama supporters are docile in regards to the issues. To some extent that way of thinking has been subscribed to by the democratic party over the years. The black vote isn't regarded as valuable, instead "automatic" where they're concerned.

Originally, I thought the Clintons were above the fray in this regard. It was only until Bill Clinton publicly scolded the African American community for not supporting his wife that I begin to question his ethics. He assumed that his status in the black community as the "first black president" meant acceptance of his wife. It was surprising that he devalued the black vote but even more disappointing that Hilary's camp has chosen to use the race card implicating blacks are supporting him because of race. With the potential of Hilary's fairytale run for the Presidency coming to an end you now hear this sentiment echoed by so called black leaders and black Hilary supporters.

Well since they can't figure out why white liberals are supporting Obama then the lowest common denominator has to be ignorant black folks voting based on race only. I'm a bit tired of people questioning why black people vote a certain way. Are white women/men repeatedly questioned about who they chose to vote? Better yet, are latinos, asians, etc. asked why they support someone who looks like them? :(

To be honest, in the beginning I didn't favor Obama over Clinton. I don't necessarily trust politicians in general because most of them are in bed with Corporate America. However, as the race progressed and Hilary's camp became extremely negative my opinion shifted. While Hilary and Obama share similar ideals on the issues, the difference in character is undeniable.

I see Obama as a relatively nice and honest person trying to advocate change of our political system, and Hilary as a political figure who will say anything to win. I prefer someone who I feel will attempt to do the right thing. Of course I'm not deluded into believing all promised will be accomplished but honesty is very important to me.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 26th, 2008, 02:42 PM
The OP's attempt to portray Obama supporters as mindless cult followers is indicative of a larger mentality in white america. It is believed that most black Obama supporters are docile in regards to the issues. To some extent that way of thinking has been subscribed to by the democratic party over the years. The black vote isn't regarded as valuable, instead "automatic" where they're concerned.

Originally, I thought the Clintons were above the fray in this regard. It was only until Bill Clinton publicly scolded the African American community for not supporting his wife that I begin to question his ethics. He assumed that his status in the black community as the "first black president" meant acceptance of his wife. It was surprising that he devalued the black vote but even more disappointing that Hilary's camp has chosen to use the race card implicating blacks are supporting him because of race. With the potential of Hilary's fairytale run for the Presidency coming to an end you now hear this sentiment echoed by so called black leaders and black Hilary supporters.

Well since they can't figure out why white liberals are supporting Obama then the lowest common denominator has to be ignorant black folks voting based on race only. I'm a bit tired of people questioning why black people vote a certain way. Are white women/men repeatedly questioned about who they chose to vote? Better yet, are latinos, asians, etc. asked why they support someone who looks like them? :(

To be honest, in the beginning I didn't favor Obama over Clinton. I don't necessarily trust politicians in general because most of them are in bed with Corporate America. However, as the race progressed and Hilary's camp became extremely negative my opinion shifted. While Hilary and Obama share similar ideals on the issues, the difference in character is undeniable.

I see Obama as a relatively nice and honest person trying to advocate change of our political system, and Hilary as a political figure who will say anything to win. I prefer someone who I feel will attempt to do the right thing. Of course I'm not deluded into believing all promised will be accomplished but honesty is very important to me.

Mindless cult. Yes.
It has nothing to do with considering any race as docile.
Yall just have this annoying habit of never shutting the fuck up about Obama. :lol:
And it gets creepy and obcessive.
How many times can you start a sentence with "That Obama, he's..."?
A Million. A Billion. A Trillion.
The white Obama organizer who I was on the bus with must have had the best anytime plan I can think of because he talked about Obama straight for two fucking hours.
I had my Ipod on blast and still could hear him so I said fuck it and just listened.
Regardless of who wins this democratic nomination, the black vote for the democrats is still "automatic".

We have no issue with Hillary fighting for this nomination.
You say she acts like she's entitled.
For the last 2 months, she's played the underdog and fought for every fucking vote.

Umm..."we" have figured out why whites like Obama as well as why blacks like Obama.
He's likeable. He inspires some.
Some of you have actually compared him to Martin Luther King Jr..
To that I say WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.

For me he's not either of those.
And to then for Obama supporters to be insulted that I feel that way is retarded.
And then yall live on generalization.
Oh. Everyone like Obama once they get to know him.
NO. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
Then the other generalization.
Well if you don't like Obama then you must not like him because his ethnicity?
:eek: A stretch if I ever saw one.

And then the Obama supporters have the nerve to play victims and say I don't like how blacks who vote for Barack are protrayed.
Yet outside yall get to say whatever you want about Obama without much criticism.
If I say I support Hillary, the whys come just as on this forum.

I don't understand why people don't get this.
Nice doesn't win presidental elections.
Gore was nice and honest but he backed down when the pressure from the Republicans came.

mykarma
Apr 26th, 2008, 02:42 PM
To be fair, a % of Obama supporters have said the same or
even on this board, will stay home if Hillary in the nominee
come November.

And if we are getting to spouses as some have already, Michelle Obama then cannot be allowed off the hook. She said herself that she doesn't know if she'd support Hillary if she were the nominee. And I would think following what you said, stay home or not supporting the nominee would be the same as voting for McCain.

So, if we are to get on the democrats on either side that say such things, than MRS.Obama must not be left out for basically saying the same. So, it obvious the voters aren't the only one's playing this game.
More of them said that if Hillary was given to nominee they would stay home which is not exactly them same as voting for McCain but understand your point. Also, please post the link where Michelle said she wouldn't vote for Hillary. I'd like to read the complete statement.

WSfan
Apr 26th, 2008, 02:47 PM
I understand the fact that more African-American would vote for Obama. I'm asian, and if there was an asian candidate running no doubt I would vote for him. But what I'm interested in is why do people in the media say it's racist that Hillary gets 58% of the white vote and Obama getting 92% of the black vote not?

mykarma
Apr 26th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Wow. :lol:

The man says, "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here." and suddenly he's public enemy No.1 to black people?

Bill Clinton:


They ran with it in the assumption that he simply meant that Obama like Jackson would lose as well ultimately. And that was more than enough to negate some's very own words regarding him as the "1st Black President". And suddenly anything and everything he did for Civil Rights was bad or of no value.

It's just really interesting how some of the same that bash Bill Clinton have and still go to bat defending Wright's comments regarding Hillary & Race. And then still be so outraged with Imus who was no better than Wright, but didn't get the same pass.

It's like I've been saying, many hypocracies have shown
themselves with this race for the White House.
Have you ever listened to Wright's sermon in it's entirely and not just the sound bites that fox news ran over and over and over again? And if you don't see anything wrong with what Bill said then so be it, but don't be condescending to those that see it differently. It's amazing that when black people see things differently than the majority based on their experiences, something is wrong with them, they're being to sensitive, or playing the race card, etc. etc. If Joe Starborough (sp.) (Morning Joe Show) with his hateful self gasped when Bill made his statement says it all for me. And to compare Rev. Wright to Imus is laughable.

Even Huckabee has come out and said that this Rev. Wright fiasco is ridiculous.

BTW. black people thought that Bill was different and stuck by him when the repubs. were trying to take him down so they feel betrayed by Bill with some of the tatics he's been using in this campaign. Even Hillary's campaign has asked him to calm down and relax. Honestly I believe that Bill is in the early stages of dementia or is so obsessed with the thoughts of being in the white house again that he's lost all signs of reason. Whichever it is, Bill Clinton is not helping his wife.