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TennisGuy21
Apr 23rd, 2008, 09:55 PM
The popular vote for me, is an interesting one. For one, it does not have to obide by the rules such votes as deligates do. Its a simple matter of how many votes were cast, and whos name are they cast for.

After last night's decisive victory in Pennsylvania, more people have voted for Hillary than any other candidate, including Sen. Obama.

Estimates vary slightly, but according to Real Clear Politics, Hillary has received 15,095,663 votes to Sen. Obama's 14,973,720, a margin of more than 120,000 votes. ABC News reported this morning that "Clinton has pulled ahead of Obama" in the popular vote.

This count includes certified vote totals in Florida and Michigan.

When you are president, that is also going to include FL, and MI, so for purposes of the nations vote, at this point it does seem the tides have turned.:bounce:

Hillary, 15,095,663

Barak, 14,973,720

Available at ABCNEWS.com

Donny
Apr 23rd, 2008, 09:58 PM
Superdelegates aren't going to view MI and FL as legitimate.

Pureracket
Apr 23rd, 2008, 10:04 PM
tennisguy,
That would assume that the popular vote is what wins nominations and elections. Gore would have been president, and Kerry would have been to.

If the popular vote would have been the deciding factor, I would have imagined Barack would have camped out in New York as opposed to devoting his time to winning Iowa. You're not going to really consider FL and MI are you?

TennisGuy21
Apr 24th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Sense I live in Orlando, FL. , Yes, I am going to count FL and MI. We are people of the national government here in the US. Also, if this was a "General Election"- Hillary would have won already. She would have so many more electoral votes. Also- I should note that if the democrates system was winner takes all, like the republicans, AND the general election, Hillary would have this wrapped up already also.

plantman
Apr 24th, 2008, 03:09 PM
Florida's back in thick of Demo mess
Florida will play a pivotal role in determining whether Hillary Clinton can win the Democratic Party's nomination, despite trailing in delegates and dollars.

Posted on Thu, Apr. 24, 2008
BY LESLEY CLARK AND BETH REINHARD
breinhard@MiamiHerald.com Just for you pure....

Just hours after winning the Pennsylvania primary, Democrat Hillary Clinton declared that she has now won more votes than Barack Obama -- if Florida and Michigan's ballots are included.

Her Democratic rival's campaign quickly shot down Clinton's contention that she now leads the popular vote, calling it a ''sketchy notion,'' because neither candidate competed in the two states, Obama's name didn't appear on the Michigan ballot and the national party considers both states' primaries illegitimate.

But with Clinton's campaign claiming momentum after a win in Pennsylvania, she sought Wednesday to intensify her claim to Florida and Michigan, which remain as crucial as ever to her quest for the presidency.

''It's clear that in the states that a Democrat has to carry to win the White House, particularly the big four, Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan and Ohio, it's clear that Sen. Clinton is the best standard-bearer for us in the fall,'' Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell told reporters on a Clinton campaign conference call.

The argument that Clinton won the two states is part of the campaign's effort to woo the influential superdelegates poised to tip the too-close-to-call contest by casting Clinton as the only candidate who can win the big, up-for-grabs states in the fall.

''She's demonstrated she can win in the big swing states,'' said Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, a leading Clinton supporter.

OBAMA'S VIEW

Obama's campaign rebutted her claim to victory in the two states, noting that Clinton herself signed a pledge not to campaign in Florida, out of deference to the early voting states that opposed the two states jumping ahead.

''As a Floridian it's hard to stomach those that boycotted our election now telling us it was a totally legitimate election when there was no campaign, there was no contest, no get-out-the-vote effort, none of the things that make up a campaign,'' said Obama's Florida campaign chair Rep. Robert Wexler of Boca Raton.

And the Florida superdelegates who remain undecided said the results from Pennsylvania did little to move the needle; no Florida superdelegates announced plans to endorse.

THIN MARGIN

''They both gave nice speeches, and they're both going forward. It's like Groundhog Day,'' said state Rep. Dan Gelber of Miami Beach. ``I don't know that things have changed a whole lot.''

Officially, Obama leads by about 500,000 votes. But if the returns from the votes on Jan. 15 and 29 primaries in Florida and Michigan are added, Clinton jumps ahead by 121,943.

''Straight-up math,'' said Clinton campaign spokesman Mo Elleithee. ``Count every ballot that was cast for her vs. every ballot cast for him. More for her.''

But both states' delegates have been disqualified by the national party because of the early primaries. And presidential nominations rest on delegate counts, tallied according to a candidate's support in each congressional district -- a method Rendell suggested is ``undemocratic.''

SOME UNPERSUADED

And when it comes to the delegate count, with or without Florida and Michigan, Obama is ahead.

Several undecided superdelegates in Florida said they aren't persuaded by the Clinton campaign's insistence that Florida and Michigan count -- or that the popular vote is a more important factor than the delegate count.

''A Democratic primary has nothing to do with whether a candidate can win that state's general election,'' said another superdelegate, state Sen Steve Geller. ``I am totally unpersuaded by that argument.''

Clinton's campaign said it was on track to raise $10 million in the 24 hours following her victory speech, trying to put to rest concerns about her ability to wage competitive campaigns in the nine remaining contests through June 3.

'I've had several donors and fundraisers call me and say, `What can we do?' '' said Chris Korge, who has hosted receptions for Clinton at his Miami home. ``People are fired up. We're going to the convention and people need to realize that.''

UNCERTAINTY REMAINS

Despite Clinton's claims, Florida's status in picking the Democratic presidential nominee remains in question and the Pennsylvania contest did little to change that.

A spokesman for Clinton said the campaign is waiting for the Democratic National Committee to take up an appeal, filed on the state's behalf by committee member Jon Ausman, who argues that national party rules require at least half of the state's delegates to be seated.

It's unlikely the appeal will be considered before the last primaries are held on June 3. Nelson and U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings, who sued the party claiming that the DNC was disenfranchising voters, have accused the committee of keeping the appeal ``under a cloak of secrecy''.

But DNC spokeswoman Stacie Paxton said the co-chairs of the DNC's rules and bylaws are reviewing the recommendation and will make it public ``when they decide how to proceed.''

Other Florida Democrats -- led by Hillary Clinton supporters -- are turning to public protests to keep the pressure on the national party.

Rallies are planned Saturday in seven Florida cities, including Miami and Fort Lauderdale, to demand that the national party count Florida's delegates. Hundreds of activists are also expected to ride buses to Washington to rally Wednesday.

''This has to do with our civil rights,'' said Millie Herrera, a potential Clinton convention delegate and the president of the Hispanic Democratic Caucus of Florida. ``No one has the right to invalidate our votes.''

Pureracket
Apr 24th, 2008, 03:11 PM
plant,
Who is your candidate in this election? We know you're anti-Obama, so you'll be giving a free pass, but is your intention for McCain or Hillary to win?

Btw, that was an email address you posted, not a link.

plantman
Apr 24th, 2008, 03:16 PM
plant,
Who is your candidate in this election? We know you're anti-Obama, so you'll be giving a free pass, but is your intention for McCain or Hillary to win?

Btw, that was an email address you posted, not a link.

I'm sure that she would give you the link you so desperately seek!:)

Pureracket
Apr 24th, 2008, 03:18 PM
I'm sure that she would give you the link you so desperately seek!:)....however, you can't seem to be able to give us a link or the candidate you're supporting. Why is that? What are you afraid of?

ptkten
Apr 24th, 2008, 03:37 PM
Your popular vote tabulations are giving Obama ZERO votes from Michigan. To say she is winning in the popular vote is laughable. I'll give you Florida, though, even though it shouldn't count and Obama leads by 300,000 plus votes which will only increase in the coming weeks.