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View Full Version : Do you think Maria still has an inferiority complex toward Serena ?


LightWarrior
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:10 PM
If all goes well for Maria they will face each other in the Charleston quarters.
Last F2F :
Serena 61 62 2007 OA final
Serena 61 61 2007 semi final Miami

Need I say more ? On the other hand Maria won Wimbledon against Serena against all odds. But that was 2004.
I would think Serena still has a huge psychological edge.

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Maria lost to Aga, Vera and Ana last year. That's at 2 majors and a Super Tier I, and she beat them all this year. She also lost to JJ in 2007 and beat her at the AO.
Players are different when they are healthy or injured. Maria had a shoulder injury last year.

That said, this is still green clay. Maria is 7-0 at majors this year, that's what she wants, and the Olympics.

beriadan
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:13 PM
I don't think she has an inferiority complex, but she does get more nervous playing Serena and Serena is kind of vengeful towards her when they play.

Cator
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:15 PM
You're basing their last meetins on a year Maria didn't play well in general. This year is a different story. I think the QF match will be interesting and good.

Maria is also serving much, much better this year-- making her game in general much better than it was last year. She just beat her firt set 7-5 and she's serving 82% first serves in.

IceHock
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:15 PM
I wouldnt really measure their rivalry on the clay outside of RG. Serena played very well last year, Maria is playing very well this year, it's even, but I wouldn't judge their rivalry this year if they meet in the quarters.

Cator
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I wouldnt really measure their rivalry on the clay outside of RG. Serena played very well last year, Maria is playing very well this year, it's even, but I wouldn't judge their rivalry this year if they meet in the quarters.

I agree...

Especially since this is their worse surface.

frontier
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Maria is going to have yips tomorrow,another loss to Serena coming up.Mark my words.....

LightWarrior
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:25 PM
I agree...

Especially since this is their worse surface.

Except that Serena has already won Rolland Garros. Minor detail I suppose. ;)

Stamp Paid
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:27 PM
Maria lost to Aga, Vera and Ana last year. That's at 2 majors and a Super Tier I, and she beat them all this year. She also lost to JJ in 2007 and beat her at the AO.
Players are different when they are healthy or injured. Maria had a shoulder injury last year.

That said, this is still green clay. Maria is 7-0 at majors this year, that's what she wants, and the Olympics.dead@Sharapova creeping back in that sig. http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4789/71qq5.gif

LightWarrior
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:31 PM
dead@Sharapova creeping back in that sig. http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4789/71qq5.gif

Imagine Maria S with Mariah C's fake boobs...

Volcana
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:33 PM
I don't think Sharapova has any kind of inferiority complex. She just got her ass kicked a couple times. That happens. Styles make fights. Serena does her best work against power-hitting baseliners. Slow, power-hitting baseliners.The more you can mix it up, the tougher time she has. The more balls you can run down and return, the tougher time she has. Sharpova isn't exactly slow, but she's nowhere near the top of the tour in foot-speed either.


Having said all that, Sharapova may win. She won AI last week, so she more adjusted to the surface than Serena. There's also the issue of the ankle Serena turned today.

Emina.
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:36 PM
each match is different ;)

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:43 PM
What kind of inferiority complex exactly? Did she mention having one in some of her interviews? Or do you just assume that two tough losses to someone will cause that to you?
Sharapova's brain isn't likely capable of such way of thinking anyway.

Arhivarius
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:43 PM
If all goes well for Maria they will face each other in the Charleston quarters.
Last F2F :
Serena 61 62 2007 OA final
Serena 61 61 2007 semi final Miami

Need I say more ? On the other hand Maria won Wimbledon against Serena against all odds. But that was 2004.
I would think Serena still has a huge psychological edge.

Nonsense or wishful thinking.:lol:
Maria never had something like that toward anybody and never will.
Rather Serena had this complex after first two losses: W2004 and YEC2004.

sammy01
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:43 PM
im not sure about a complex, sharapova just knows she has to play amazingly well to beat serena. serenas game is not a good one for maria as she dosen't like players that can take the 1st strike away from her with big groundies and a big serve. maria also dosen't like a player who can handle her pace and give it back harder. so theres huge pressure on maria when they play, as she has to get the 1st strike in and not let serenas weapons dictate the match (sereve, movement and power).

LightWarrior
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:44 PM
each match is different ;)

At one point it wasn't for Chris Evert who lost 13 times in a row to Navratilova 1983/85...

AcesHigh
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:47 PM
Well.. the 2005 loss was pretty bad too.. actually that was probably worse than both the 2007 losses b/c Maria was playing really well.

But I don't think Maria has an inferiority complex against ANYONE. Serena is just the better player and Sharapova has to play really well to beat her.

Aravanecaravan
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:51 PM
Serena is just the better player

:lol:

This isn't 2002. Look at what they've accomplished in the years since Maria's turned pro and say that with a straight face. Silly.

TennisGuy21
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:52 PM
Maria hasnt beaten Serena sense 2004 you guys. I just dont see it happening tomorrow either.

bwahahahahaha
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:56 PM
:lol:

This isn't 2002. Look at what they've accomplished in the years since Maria's turned pro and say that with a straight face. Silly.

What is so funny? :weirdo: Serena IS the better player.

VishaalMaria
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:56 PM
:lol:

This isn't 2002. Look at what they've accomplished in the years since Maria's turned pro and say that with a straight face. Silly.

He/she said Serena is a better tennis player than Maria. And if you beat someone 6-2 6-2, and 6-1 6-1 respectively in the last two meetings, it shows that you are. This has got nothing to do with accomplishments you jackass. Still havent got your head out of Marias backside I see? Well good luck with that.

AcesHigh
Apr 17th, 2008, 09:57 PM
:lol:

This isn't 2002. Look at what they've accomplished in the years since Maria's turned pro and say that with a straight face. Silly.

Do you honestly think that Sharapova is better than Serena?
More consistent? Obviously
More committed? Definitely
Better? Definitely not.

I'm not going to bring in any 50% 60% 70% arguments, but Sharapova has been outclassed on several occasions by better players even when healthy and even when not injured(I know Pova fans want to use the shoulder to excuse all of 2007).

Serena moves better, serves better, returns better, has better net game, and has better groundstrokes except arguably the backhand. She also uses variety better than Sharapova.

The only issues is that Serena has had ups and downs(way too many downs) while Sharapova has been consistently a great player. Same with Henin until this year. That's why they'll be considered the best players of the last 5 years. However, if we're not just talking about results Serena>Sharapova(>Venus to show I'm not being biased and trashing Sharapova here :p lol)

The Daviator
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Nonsense or wishful thinking.:lol:
Maria never had something like that toward anybody and never will.
Rather Serena had this complex after first two losses: W2004 and YEC2004.

Which is why she won the next 3 meetings :confused:

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:10 PM
He/she said Serena is a better tennis player than Maria. And if you beat someone 6-2 6-2, and 6-1 6-1 respectively in the last two meetings, it shows that you are. This has got nothing to do with accomplishments you jackass. Still havent got your head out of Marias backside I see? Well good luck with that.
I don't know whether Serena is better than Sharapova nor do I care, only wanna point out that H2H's don't determine which player is better, in fact they have very little to do with it. Once Nalbandian led Federer 5-0 in H2H's, would you say he was the better one out of the two? Now that they are 8-8, would you say they are equal? H2H's are about certain match-ups, you may have a great record against someone, but that doesn't mean you are better than him/her. It only says that your style of play doesn't suit your opponent's game, at least at the highest level of the game.

starin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:10 PM
:lol:

This isn't 2002. Look at what they've accomplished in the years since Maria's turned pro and say that with a straight face. Silly.


Turned Pro in 2001. Serena's won 7 slams and 2 finals. Sharapova has won 3 slams and 1 final.
but didn't play full year until 2002.
Since then Serena' won 7 slams and 1 final. Sharapova still at 3 slams and 1 final.


Now who's accomplished more since Sharapova turned pro?

VishaalMaria
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:13 PM
QUOTE=Lunaris;12972632]In fact it has a lot to do with accomplishments.
I don't know whether Serena is better than Sharapova nor do I care, only wanna point out that H2H's don't determine which player is better, in fact they have very little to do with it. Once Nalbandian led Federer 5-0 in H2H's, would you say he was the better one out of the two? Now that they are 8-8, would you say they are equal? H2H's are about certain match-ups, you may have a great record against someone, but that doesn't mean you are better than him/her. It only says that your style of play doesn't suit your opponent's game.[/QUOTE]

Well that's the point. That's the point someone made and it's the point we are discussing. If you beat someone in a tennis match, then how are you NOT a better tennis player than them? :confused:

franny
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Well I just think that Serena is a tough match up for Maria. Just like how Serena was a tough match up for Lindsay. Serena loves pace, and she can overpower ANYONE out there. Some of the shots she was hitting today were like, WOW. Srebotnik would have her on the run, and homegirl would just whack a winner. Most players can't do that against Sharapova, but Serena can, and probably will tomorrow. I just hope Maria makes it competitive.

Olórin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Which is why she won the next 3 meetings :confused:

:haha:

Tennisstar86
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:18 PM
complex? :confused: i just thought Maria got outplayed...

Olórin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:19 PM
In fact it has a lot to do with accomplishments.
I don't know whether Serena is better than Sharapova nor do I care, only wanna point out that H2H's don't determine which player is better, in fact they have very little to do with it. Once Nalbandian led Federer 5-0 in H2H's, would you say he was the better one out of the two? Now that they are 8-8, would you say they are equal? H2H's are about certain match-ups, you may have a great record against someone, but that doesn't mean you are better than him/her. It only says that your style of play doesn't suit your opponent's game, at least at the highest level of the game.

As a tennis player Serena is clearly better than Maria. She does everything Maria does but better, and she has a more complete game.

But we do live in a world where Sanchez-Vicario can beat Steffi Graf 62 60, so obviously it goes without saying that regardless of who is the better player, anyone can beat anyone on a given day.

starin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:20 PM
complex? :confused: i just thought Maria got outplayed...

yeah that's what i was going to say. Sharapova just got outplayed for whatever reason. Whther cuz of her serve or cuz Serena was playing really well.

It's only a complex when you can't beat a player even when they are playing like shite.
i.e. Schnyder and Venus, Jankovic and Justine,

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:21 PM
im not sure about a complex, sharapova just knows she has to play amazingly well to beat serena. serenas game is not a good one for maria as she dosen't like players that can take the 1st strike away from her with big groundies and a big serve. maria also dosen't like a player who can handle her pace and give it back harder. so theres huge pressure on maria when they play, as she has to get the 1st strike in and not let serenas weapons dictate the match (sereve, movement and power).

Agree with this breakdown. There's no inferiority complex just extra pressure maybe also because I think that Maria dislikes losing to some players more than others. She'll come to fight, and could win. Still, I'm sticking with Serena in 3 (if her ankle is okay).

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:21 PM
Do you honestly think that Sharapova is better than Serena?
More consistent? Obviously
More committed? Definitely
Better? Definitely not.

I'm not going to bring in any 50% 60% 70% arguments, but Sharapova has been outclassed on several occasions by better players even when healthy and even when not injured(I know Pova fans want to use the shoulder to excuse all of 2007).

Serena moves better, serves better, returns better, has better net game, and has better groundstrokes except arguably the backhand. She also uses variety better than Sharapova.

The only issues is that Serena has had ups and downs(way too many downs) while Sharapova has been consistently a great player. Same with Henin until this year. That's why they'll be considered the best players of the last 5 years. However, if we're not just talking about results Serena>Sharapova(>Venus to show I'm not being biased and trashing Sharapova here :p lol)
So consistence and commitment are absolutely meaningless, that's what you want to say?
At her best Serena might be better, over a longer period of time she definitely isn't, at least since 2003. That's basically what I read from your post.

Well that's the point. That's the point someone made and it's the point we are discussing. If you beat someone in a tennis match, then how are you NOT a better tennis player than them? :confused:
I am discussing how H2H's don't have anything to do with who is a better player. I would post regardless of which players were involved in this thread. That's why I wrote I don't care about Serena and Maria.

VishaalMaria
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:23 PM
So consistence and commitment are absolutely meaningless, that's what you want to say?
At her best Serena might be better, for a long period of time she definitely isn't, at least since 2003. That's basically what I read from your post.


I am discussing how H2H's don't have anything to do with who is a better player. I would post regardless of which players were involved in this thread. That's why I wrote I don't care about Serena and Maria.

The point was, whether Serena was better than Maria or vice-versa. And you said you didn't care. So then why post? Now, you're saying you don't care about the players as such which is a different point altogether. I see what you're saying.

morningglory
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:26 PM
Not really... it's more of like Serena going into Super-charged mode everytime she sees Maria

quasar-x
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:32 PM
whoever creates the big fuzz has the inferiority complex, including the fan bases.

AcesHigh
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:33 PM
So consistence and commitment are absolutely meaningless, that's what you want to say?
At her best Serena might be better, over a long period of time she definitely isn't, at least since 2003. That's basically what I read from your post.

I agree with the bold.
Who has been the better player over the last 4 years? Sharapova
Who IS the better player? Serena

Who's the better player? Marat Safin or some scrub like Robin Soderling or even Ivan Ljubicic. This question would have made more sense 2 years ago, :lol: but my point is that consistency doesn't mean your a better player. If we pretend like it's 2007 or 2006, Safin is just 10x more talented than these players but they have much better results than he does. They have been better... but if I were to compare them solely for their talents and abilities, Safin>Ljubicic>Soderling

Serena just does too many things better than Sharapova for me to say Sharapova is the better player.

kwilliams
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:37 PM
I don't think she has an inferiority complex but if she the scoreline tomorrow is similar to their last two meetings (which isn't likely) then she may begin to develop one.

Tennisstar86
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Not really... it's more of like Serena going into Super-charged mode everytime she sees Maria

I think its more of a Maria has one game plan out there... unfortunately for her that game plan is what Serena likes to see and she blows her off the court with it...

And why does she do it? Because Serena practices with the faster version of Sharapova.....its really not that hard to figure out

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:44 PM
I agree with the bold.
Who has been the better player over the last 4 years? Sharapova
Who IS the better player? Serena

Who's the better player? Marat Safin or some scrub like Robin Soderling or even Ivan Ljubicic. This question would have made more sense 2 years ago, :lol: but my point is that consistency doesn't mean your a better player. If we pretend like it's 2007 or 2006, Safin is just 10x more talented than these players but they have much better results than he does. They have been better... but if I were to compare them solely for their talents and abilities, Safin>Ljubicic>Soderling

Serena just does too many things better than Sharapova for me to say Sharapova is the better player.
You have a point with Safin being far more talented than Ljubo or Söderling, but for me obviously such things as consistence, commitment, ability to stay healthy etc. mean much more when determining who's a better player than it means for you. Keeping the bigger picture in mind I simply can't ignore it. Nowadays Soderling is better than Safin. If Marat was committed he would be probably be better, sadly for his fans he isn't.
Let's just agree to disagree... again. ;)

Olórin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:46 PM
You have a point with Safin being far more talented than Ljubo or Söderling, but for me obviously such things as consistence, commitment, ability to stay healthy etc. mean much more when determining who's a better player than it means for you. Keeping the bigger picture in mind I simply can't ignore it.
Let's just agree to disagree... again. ;)

Keeping the bigger picture in mind, you seem to be ignoring the hunreds of matches Serena played prior to 2003, the dozens of top ten wins she earned and titles gained during that time :confused:

Tennisstar86
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:48 PM
Keeping the bigger picture in mind, you seem to be ignoring the hunreds of matches Serena played prior to 2003, the dozens of top ten wins she earned and titles gained during that time :confused:

yeah... according to him Ivanovic is a better player than maria.... after 07...

Olórin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:50 PM
yeah... according to him Ivanovic is a better player than maria.... after 07...

oh, I see :lol:

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:51 PM
Serena's better. She just under-achieves more often.

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:54 PM
As a tennis player Serena is clearly better than Maria. She does everything Maria does but better, and she has a more complete game.
Maybe during one random tournament she does everything better, but hardly over a longer period. But I have written that already.

Olórin
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:56 PM
Maybe during one tournament she does everything better, but hardly over a longer period. But I have written that already.

Over the longer period (since 1998) Serena has done EVERYTHING better than Maria. Fact.

rjd1111
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:58 PM
Nonsense or wishful thinking.:lol:
Maria never had something like that toward anybody and never will.
Rather Serena had this complex after first two losses: W2004 and YEC2004.


Yes Pova surprised Serena at Wimby, but Serena was

whippin her butt at the YEC until the injury overcame

her. Why should she feel bad over that injury loss?

In The Zone
Apr 17th, 2008, 10:59 PM
Maria lost to Aga, Vera and Ana last year. That's at 2 majors and a Super Tier I, and she beat them all this year. She also lost to JJ in 2007 and beat her at the AO.
Players are different when they are healthy or injured. Maria had a shoulder injury last year.

That said, this is still green clay. Maria is 7-0 at majors this year, that's what she wants, and the Olympics.

:lol: This post is such a great setup for when Maria loses.

rjd1111
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:01 PM
:lol:

This isn't 2002. Look at what they've accomplished in the years since Maria's turned pro and say that with a straight face. Silly.


Williams leads 4-2

cnelson575
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:10 PM
Before last year, there matches were pretty competitive. I think anyone can win just depending.

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Keeping the bigger picture in mind, you seem to be ignoring the hunreds of matches Serena played prior to 2003, the dozens of top ten wins she earned and titles gained during that time :confused:
Yeah, those were the times when Serena was committed and consistent. While Shazza was playing Orange bowls. Since then...

cnelson575
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Davenport went several years without beating Venus and then started to win the majority of there matches to take the h2h. They have only played 3 times since 04. One was very close , the other 2 werent but they were during Sharapova's issues. We will see. I think Serena is better on clay but who knows

vettipooh
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:18 PM
Turned Pro in 2001. Serena's won 7 slams and 2 finals. Sharapova has won 3 slams and 1 final.
but didn't play full year until 2002.
Since then Serena' won 7 slams and 1 final. Sharapova still at 3 slams and 1 final.


Now who's accomplished more since Sharapova turned pro?


Quite an accomplishment for someone who had to deal with injuries, knee surgery, a sisters' murder, and parents' divorce, all since Sharapova turned pro.

Tennisstar86
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Davenport went several years without beating Venus and then started to win the majority of there matches to take the h2h. They have only played 3 times since 04. One was very close , the other 2 werent but they were during Sharapova's issues. We will see. I think Serena is better on clay but who knows

except Venus was clearly a shadow of her former self and going through issues in 2004.... Serena is not.... Its not like Davenport all of a sudden found this amazing game and figured venus out....

rjd1111
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Maybe during one random tournament she does everything better, but hardly over a longer period. But I have written that already.

one random tournament?

AO '05, AO '07, Miami '07
Pova hasn't beaten Serena in nearly 4 yrs.

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:26 PM
This match is important for the h2h. Maria won 2 of 3 against Serena when she was 17.
Now she's turning 21 and a much better player. It's about time she shows it h2h.

Tennisstar86
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:34 PM
This match is important for the h2h. Maria won 2 of 3 against Serena when she was 17.
Now she's turning 21 and a much better player. It's about time she shows it h2h.

:haha: Stevenson won some big matches against Capriati in her hey day as well.. guess that makes her the better player....

pov
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:36 PM
Over the longer period (since 1998) Serena has done EVERYTHING better than Maria. Fact.
:haha: Yep, that is a fact since in 1998 Sharapova was 11 and not exactly a fixture on the WTA tour

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:36 PM
I meant a much better player now than when she was at 17.
Whether she's better than Serena will be determined after they're retired. Maria still has a lot to do to be in the discussion.

spiritedenergy
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:36 PM
the worst thread ever:tape::help:

AcesHigh
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:37 PM
This match is important for the h2h. Maria won 2 of 3 against Serena when she was 17.
Now she's turning 21 and a much better player. It's about time she shows it h2h.

Then what does it say about Serena/Sharapova when Serena won the 3 matches when she had some fairly poor years :confused: Serena has not been in the same shape since 2004, yet she's won a match from teh brink of defeat, and then thrashed Sharapova when she was ranked 86th in the world and then again a few months later.

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:39 PM
I don't know what it says about it either one of them.
I know Maria is having the best start to a season of her career. And that's what matters to me.

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:40 PM
one random tournament?

AO '05, AO '07, Miami '07
Pova hasn't beaten Serena in nearly 4 yrs.
There you have a nice example, which should explain you that H2H's are overrated.
Stevenson leads Capriati 3-2 as Tennisstar86 posted. Does it make her better than Capriati? Of course not.
But I already made my point about that.

spiritedenergy
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:41 PM
I don't know what it says about it either one of them.
I know Maria is having the best start to a season of her career. And that's what matters to me.

weren't you a hater of Sharapova? I guess with Chakvetadze's slump you need to bandwagon someone:sad:

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:43 PM
I'm still on the Chakvetadze bandwagon.

spiritedenergy
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:45 PM
I'm still on the Chakvetadze bandwagon.

well but on sharapova's too it seems. 4 months ago you had a totally different opinion about her:tape:

sammy01
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:46 PM
There you have a nice example, which should explain you that H2H's are overrated.
Stevenson leads Capriati 3-2 as Tennisstar86 posted. Does it make her better than Capriati? Of course not.
But I already made my point about that.

lol well that says that stevenson was the better player when they were pitted against each other. any stevenson fan has every right to be confident when they played, the same as serenas fans. the top and bottom of it is when serena and maria have been pitted against each other serena has come out on top more often and won the last 3 matches. if sharapova fans dont like the idea of who is better judging by the head 2 head, they cant deny its whos better at playing each other and this is serena.

Tennisstar86
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:49 PM
There you have a nice example, which should explain you that H2H's are overrated.
Stevenson leads Capriati 3-2 as Tennisstar86 posted. Does it make her better than Capriati? Of course not.
But I already made my point about that.

except when Serena leads Head to head, titles, Gs count does she lead weeks at #1? I feel like she does... its pretty easy to see who the better player is at this point...

Brooks.
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:50 PM
goldenlox is so annoying with his Maria has won 3994 of her last 83383 matches :rolleyes:

WE GET IT! She's playing well. Anyways, Serena and Maria fans get so annoying everytime they are about to play each other. Just get over it and watch the match!

Sharapova doesn't have a complex towards Serena and same goes for Serena. They just don't like each other. :)

vettipooh
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:53 PM
I don't know what it says about it either one of them.
I know Maria is having the best start to a season of her career. And that's what matters to me.


Since when do you give a f*ck (f@ck) about Sharapova? Oh wait...since the other 20 smth Russians in your sig can't do sh*t. :lol:

sammy01
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:53 PM
I didn't deny it, but that's a matter of match up, you can't judge who's better solely based on H2H. Nor am I a Sharapova fan. :tape: :o

i said whos better at playing the other. im a fan of neither (i tend to lean towards serena when its these 2).

Lunaris
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:54 PM
i said whos better at playing the other. im a fan of neither (i tend to lean towards serena when its these 2).
Yes, I didn't catch the correct meaning at the first sight.

goldenlox
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:55 PM
The Russian players are doing fine. There will be 3 in the quarters tomorrow.

sammy01
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:56 PM
goldenlox is so annoying with his Maria has won 3994 of her last 83383 matches :rolleyes:

WE GET IT! She's playing well. Anyways, Serena and Maria fans get so annoying everytime they are about to play each other. Just get over it and watch the match!

Sharapova doesn't have a complex towards Serena and same goes for Serena. They just don't like each other. :)

exactly it reminds me of a line out of gimmie gimmie gimmie, 'im not phobic about homos i just cant stand the sight of them' lol, i miss gimmie gimmie gimmie, so funny and so none pc but never offensive.

tennisbear7
Apr 17th, 2008, 11:59 PM
Maria and Serena are very diplomatic towards eachother, but you can tell that they want to tear eachother to shreds when they play.

Unfortunately for Maria, her game just doesn't match well against Serena. Serena does everything better.

esquímaux
Apr 18th, 2008, 12:10 AM
As well she should. Don't get me wrong, I like me some Masha, but I also savour the ferocious spankings Serena dishes out to her :drool:

pov
Apr 18th, 2008, 12:19 AM
Turned Pro in 2001. Serena's won 7 slams and 2 finals. Sharapova has won 3 slams and 1 final.
but didn't play full year until 2002.
Since then Serena' won 7 slams and 1 final. Sharapova still at 3 slams and 1 final.


Now who's accomplished more since Sharapova turned pro?
That's not a valid point of comparison. Since S.Williams already had 6 years on the tour when Sharapova turned pro.

Stats are never the whole story but I'd look at corresponding career timelines.

S. Williams
Pro - 1995
First Title - 1999
First GS title - 1999
Number of titles in first 5 years - 5
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 1
Number of titles by age 21 - 18
Number of GS titles by age 21 - 4

Sharapova
Pro - 2001
First title - 2003
First GS title - 2004
Number of titles in first 5 years - 10
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 1
Number of titles by age 21 - 18
Number of GS titles by age 21 - 3


That all said - of course at this point in time, Serena Williams has achieved much more and has reached a higher top level of play than Sharapova.

Tennisstar86
Apr 18th, 2008, 12:25 AM
That's not a valid point of comparison. Since S.Williams already had 6 years on the tour when Sharapova turned pro.

Stats are never the whole story but I'd look at corresponding career timelines.

S. Williams
Pro - 1995
First Title - 1999
First GS title - 1999
Number of titles in first 5 years - 5
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 1
Number of titles by age 21 - 18
Number of GS titles by age 21 - 4

Sharapova
Pro - 2001
First title - 2003
First GS title - 2004
Number of titles in first 5 years - 10
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 1
Number of titles by age 21 - 18
Number of GS titles by age 21 - 3


That all said - of course at this point in time, Serena Williams has achieved much more and has reached a higher top level of play than Sharapova.

Im pretty sure this comparison had to do with Gold crazed russian bringing Justine into this thread because clearly Sharapova doesnt stand up next to Serena...

so better career since her turning pro had to do with justine and not Sharapova....cause clearly Serena is better

Dan23
Apr 18th, 2008, 12:26 AM
:haha: why should Maria have an inferiority complex to anyone? She knows why things happen.

faboozadoo15
Apr 18th, 2008, 01:29 AM
Pova hasn't beaten Serena in nearly 4 yrs.

So? Serena lost within a round of playing Maria at The 2006 US Open, 2007 YEC, 2008 AO, just to name a few..

pov
Apr 18th, 2008, 01:41 AM
Im pretty sure this comparison had to do with Gold crazed russian bringing Justine into this thread because clearly Sharapova doesnt stand up next to Serena...

so better career since her turning pro had to do with justine and not Sharapova....cause clearly Serena is better

What I find interesting is how close their achievements by age 21(both having turned pro at 14) are - just 1 GS difference. I believe Sharapova can achieve a lot in the next 4 years.


A look at Henin
Pro - 1999(age 17)
First title - 1999
First GS title - 2003
Number of titles in first 5 years - 14
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 2
Number of titles in first 7 years - 23
Number of GS titles in first 7 years - 4

VishaalMaria
Apr 18th, 2008, 01:48 AM
So? Serena lost within a round of playing Maria at The 2006 US Open, 2007 YEC, 2008 AO, just to name a few..

So? It's all about match ups and you know it. If Serena did get to play Maria in those tournaments, rest assured she would have beaten Maria to a pulp. The FACT is that Maria hasn't beaten Serena in over four years. And if Maria can't beat Serena when she has match points [AUS Open 05], and can't beat Serena when Serena is fat[AUS Open 07], then it's going to take a miracle for her to beat Serena anyplace anytime. Hell, Maria barely managed to beat Serena at the YEC 04 and thats when Serena was limping.

VishaalMaria
Apr 18th, 2008, 01:50 AM
:haha: why should Maria have an inferiority complex to anyone? She knows why things happen.

If she knows why things happen then why doesnt she stop them from happening? I'm sure she wanted those breadsticks that were served by Serena last year.

KBdoubleu
Apr 18th, 2008, 02:00 AM
So? Serena lost within a round of playing Maria at The 2006 US Open, 2007 YEC, 2008 AO, just to name a few..

2006 US Open Serena was coming back from a lengthy injury lay off and still got to the quarters and stretched the then no. 1 and holder of two of the seasons first three slams to three sets.

2007 YEC Serena pulled out injured...and Maria entered the field because of Venus pulled out.

Maria could've played Serena in Moscow 2007 but lost to Azarenka.

The point is they didn't play and Maria hasn't beaten Serena since 2004.

the cat
Apr 18th, 2008, 02:13 AM
Im pretty sure this comparison had to do with Gold crazed russian bringing Justine into this thread because clearly Sharapova doesnt stand up next to Serena...

so better career since her turning pro had to do with justine and not Sharapova....cause clearly Serena is better
But Maria is better at age 20 than Serena was at 20. Venus and Henin too for that matter.

Masha needs to beat Serena friday. If she does that she will start to break the hex Serena has on her.

Tamus
Apr 18th, 2008, 02:24 AM
So? Serena lost within a round of playing Maria at The 2006 US Open, 2007 YEC, 2008 AO, just to name a few..

That just means that she's lucky and gets easy draws. ;)

Stamp Paid
Apr 18th, 2008, 02:35 AM
But Maria is better at age 20 than Serena was at 20. Venus and Henin too for that matter.

Masha needs to beat Serena friday. If she does that she will start to break the hex Serena has on her.How is Maria better than Serena at age 20? Serena was in 4 consecutive slam finals, winning 3 straight and a YEC title at 20. Serena peaked at 20. The bulk of Maria's 20th year has been awful.

homogenius
Apr 18th, 2008, 02:38 AM
Yes

Volcana
Apr 18th, 2008, 02:44 AM
But Maria is better at age 20 than Serena was at 20. Venus and Henin too for that matter.

Masha needs to beat Serena friday. If she does that she will start to break the hex Serena has on her.Maria Sharapova is a LOT better than Martina Navratilova was at age 20. Navratilova didn't win her first slam til she was 23. Billie Jean King didn't win her first til she was 22. They both had 'okay' careers. So Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Maria Sharapova, and Martina Hingis were ALL better than Martina Navratilova or Billie Jean at age 20. Which tells you what that whole concept of 'how good were they at age 20' is worth. Nothing.


What a player accomplishes at a young age isn't any measure of how their overall career will be. Martina Hingis won her final slam before Venus Williams won her first one. But Williams wound up with more slam singles titles. Anastasia Myskina won her first slam before Amelie Mauresmo. But Mauresmo has had a vastly superior career.

Tamus
Apr 18th, 2008, 03:05 AM
Maria Sharapova is a LOT better than Martina Navratilova was at age 20. Navratilova didn't win her first slam til she was 23. Billie Jean King didn't win her first til she was 22. They both had 'okay' careers. So Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Maria Sharapova, and Martina Hingis were ALL better than Martina Navratilova or Billie Jean at age 20. Which tells you what that whole concept of 'how good were they at age 20' is worth. Nothing.


What a player accomplishes at a young age isn't any measure of how their overall career will be. Martina Hingis won her final slam before Venus Williams won her first one. But Williams wound up with more slam singles titles. Anastasia Myskina won her first slam before Amelie Mauresmo. But Mauresmo has had a vastly superior career.

True, but it's also silly to say that Serena is clearly a better player than Maria basing this off of career accomplishments (which is what many people do). Maria obviously hasn't been around as long as Serena. What Serena accomplished before Maria was on the tour is not going to make her a better player than her today. Serena was obviously a better player than Maria last year; this year Maria has been slightly better. That we can assess.

Dan23
Apr 18th, 2008, 03:21 AM
If she knows why things happen then why doesnt she stop them from happening? I'm sure she wanted those breadsticks that were served by Serena last year.
Possibly one thing or two last year we're beyond her control. I dont think she dwells on those. She has belief from what has happened before and since.

dany.p
Apr 18th, 2008, 03:47 AM
Serena has been on tour far longer then Maria, so you can't really use that a basis for saying serena is the better player. They've both had quite similar starts to there careers and are both great players. lets just leave it at that.

CrossCourt~Rally
Apr 18th, 2008, 03:56 AM
Serena has been on tour far longer then Maria, so you can't really use that a basis for saying serena is the better player. They've both had quite similar starts to there careers and are both great players. lets just leave it at that.


Well said. :bounce:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:18 AM
The fact that Serena is a better player than Maria has NOTHING to do with results, especially considering Serena has been a part time player for the majority of her career. Serena being a better player has to do with Serena's tennis SKILLS. Serena is just more talented, and can do more with the ball and has more dimensions to her power game than does Sharapova.

Lunaris
Apr 18th, 2008, 06:59 AM
Maria Sharapova is a LOT better than Martina Navratilova was at age 20. Navratilova didn't win her first slam til she was 23. Billie Jean King didn't win her first til she was 22. They both had 'okay' careers. So Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Maria Sharapova, and Martina Hingis were ALL better than Martina Navratilova or Billie Jean at age 20. Which tells you what that whole concept of 'how good were they at age 20' is worth. Nothing.
Nowadays players start their careers on the WTA tour way earlier than it used to be in Martina’s times as you surely know. Considering Navratilova turned pro when she was 19 (according to WTA website), you really can’t compare achievements of players from different eras.
But there is nothing wrong with comparing the "until being 20 years old" achievements of two players that both turned pro at age 14.

What a player accomplishes at a young age isn't any measure of how their overall career will be. Martina Hingis won her final slam before Venus Williams won her first one. But Williams wound up with more slam singles titles. Anastasia Myskina won her first slam before Amelie Mauresmo. But Mauresmo has had a vastly superior career.
Yes, but nobody was comparing their whole careers in this thread as far as I remember.

bandabou
Apr 18th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Hmm..no complex. Just one of those match-ups. Serena likes to play against hard-hitting slow movers. Everybody says Maria went to the same school as Lindsay Davenport, right? In fact Maria and Lindsay are practically the same player, only Maria's a bit faster and mentally tougher. Now..look at Lindsay's h2h against Serena, and practically that's the same you're gonna get with Maria against Serena.

Luckily for Serena, she won't be facing the peak peak Serena of say 2002-2003..so the h2h might end up more respectable.

Dorcas Monjimbo
Apr 18th, 2008, 11:45 AM
I do not think Maria would have liked to play Serena at the quarter finals given the last two defeats. It is true this is another year and She's been playing better. But when Serena is healthy, she is really a force to reckon with.But we can never know what goes on in another person's mind. Perhaps Maria will like to test how good she really is this year by playing Rena.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 18th, 2008, 03:15 PM
What kind of inferiority complex exactly? Did she mention having one in some of her interviews? Or do you just assume that two tough losses to someone will cause that to you?
Sharapova's brain isn't likely capable of such way of thinking anyway.

Agreed!

Maria would never feel inferior to anyone. She couldn't compete at her level if she did.

Serena kicked her ass soundly the last couple times, but have you noticed Maria's form since then? Maria will come out blazing today, and Serena better be ready. Maria is more than capable of mopping the clay court w/Serena.

Olórin
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:30 PM
Yeah, those were the times when Serena was committed and consistent. While Shazza was playing Orange bowls. Since then...

Why since then?

You can't just disregard the best part of Serena's career simply cos the Golden Girl wasn't playing then. That's utterly moronic logic.

Olórin
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Yes, but nobody was comparing their whole careers in this thread as far as I remember.

Several people have, you just don't seem to have caught up yet.

Olórin
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:34 PM
That's not a valid point of comparison. Since S.Williams already had 6 years on the tour when Sharapova turned pro.

Stats are never the whole story but I'd look at corresponding career timelines.

S. Williams
Pro - 1995
First Title - 1999
First GS title - 1999
Number of titles in first 5 years - 5
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 1
Number of titles by age 21 - 18
Number of GS titles by age 21 - 4

Sharapova
Pro - 2001
First title - 2003
First GS title - 2004
Number of titles in first 5 years - 10
Number of GS titles in first 5 years - 1
Number of titles by age 21 - 18
Number of GS titles by age 21 - 3


That all said - of course at this point in time, Serena Williams has achieved much more and has reached a higher top level of play than Sharapova.

Well your information is incorrect because Serena had 23 titles at 21 years of age and 6 Grand Slams.

Olórin
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:35 PM
But Maria is better at age 20 than Serena was at 20. Venus and Henin too for that matter.


No she's not, both Venus and Serena had achieved more than Maria by that age.

Tennisstar86
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:42 PM
Agreed!

Maria would never feel inferior to anyone. She couldn't compete at her level if she did.

Serena kicked her ass soundly the last couple times, but have you noticed Maria's form since then? Maria will come out blazing today, and Serena better be ready. Maria is more than capable of mopping the clay court w/Serena.

we shall see in 18 minutes

Doc
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:49 PM
I do not think Maria would have liked to play Serena at the quarter finals given the last two defeats. It is true this is another year and She's been playing better. But when Serena is healthy, she is really a force to reckon with.But we can never know what goes on in another person's mind. Perhaps Maria will like to test how good she really is this year by playing Rena.
Maria has managed to meet Serena recently when Serena has been playing at her best. If Maria had met the average Serena of the past two years, the recent h2h would look a lot different. Both Maria and her opponent are coming off good runs, so this should be interesting, albeit on clay.

Tennisstar86
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Maria has managed to meet Serena recently when Serena has been playing at her best. If Maria had met the average Serena of the past two years, the recent h2h would look a lot different. Both Maria and her opponent are coming off good runs, so this should be interesting, albeit on clay.

lol Im sorry, but going into the AO 07' final Maria was definately considered to be at her best having just won the US Open and dominated Clijsters not Serena who was fat and tried to lose to some some low ranked players....

lol :tape: At her best....

Olórin
Apr 18th, 2008, 04:59 PM
Maria has managed to meet Serena recently when Serena has been playing at her best. If Maria had met the average Serena of the past two years, the recent h2h would look a lot different. Both Maria and her opponent are coming off good runs, so this should be interesting, albeit on clay.

In 5 of the 6 matches they've played, the outcome has been firmly on Serena's racquet. Im sorry but that's not a coincidence.

rjd1111
Apr 18th, 2008, 07:51 PM
She sure as hell has one now!!

She better watch out all those breadsticks

are fattening.

doni1212
Apr 18th, 2008, 07:57 PM
:lol:

homogenius
Apr 18th, 2008, 07:58 PM
Yes

:devil:

Dodoboy.
Apr 18th, 2008, 07:59 PM
In 5 of the 6 matches they've played, the outcome has been firmly on Serena's racquet. Im sorry but that's not a coincidence.

I don't think we need more proof than the match today, serena play well,, serena win.

In The Zone
Apr 18th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Flat out yes.

azinna
Apr 18th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Hard to answer this question, since Serena's clearly the superior player. It's not as if Maria should be winning these matches and hasn't for some psychological reasons.....

ghost world
Apr 18th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Hard to answer this question, since Serena's clearly the superior player. It's not as if Maria should be winning these matches and hasn't for some psychological reasons.....

Indeed.

bandabou
Apr 18th, 2008, 08:12 PM
The legend still lives!

bandabou
Apr 18th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Maria has managed to meet Serena recently when Serena has been playing at her best. If Maria had met the average Serena of the past two years, the recent h2h would look a lot different. Both Maria and her opponent are coming off good runs, so this should be interesting, albeit on clay.

recently? As in FOUR!! :eek: :eek: years ago??

Lunaris
Apr 18th, 2008, 09:55 PM
Why since then?

You can't just disregard the best part of Serena's career simply cos the Golden Girl wasn't playing then. That's utterly moronic logic.
I disregarded it because since then Serena has never hit such a form, has never been as consistent, couldn't have kept herself healthy and has not been committed enough, not because the Golden Girl (who?) wasn't playing at that time. In recent years Serena hasn't been as consistent as Sharapova, she has a share of good tournaments every year, but other than that she mostly sucks (by her standards) or is injured. That's why I wrote Serena may be better at her best - when healthy, focused and playing well (which is an extremely rare occurrence), but Sharapova is better over a longer period of time. In other words Sharapova can keep high level of play for a longer time (regardless of her sucky 2007), which is an important factor. Some people in this thread think that consistence, commitment and health are meaningless when determining who is a better player. I simply disagree with such a view, that's all I wanted to say here (plus the thing about H2H's). Serena certainly has had a more successful career than Sharapova yet (she is older, therefore it's understandable), probably is a bad match up for her (though I still have some doubts), but nowadays is not that much better than Sharapova (actually she probably is worse than her, even though Sharapova too has some issues with the infamous shoulder, which brings her down more often than she would like), because she can't keep good health and high level of play over a long time - that's what makes a great player. Rankings should tell you that. Serena was fantastic in early 2000's, but since 2003 she hasn't been the same player.

kwilliams
Apr 18th, 2008, 10:10 PM
I disregarded it because since then Serena has never hit such a form, has never been as consistent, couldn't have kept herself healthy and has not been committed enough, not because the Golden Girl (who?) wasn't playing at that time. In recent years Serena hasn't been as consistent as Sharapova, she has a share of good tournaments every year, but other than that she mostly sucks (by her standards) or is injured. That's why I wrote Serena may be better at her best - when healthy, focused and playing well (which is an extremely rare occurrence), but Sharapova is better over a longer period of time. In other words Sharapova can keep high level of play for a longer time (regardless of her sucky 2007), which is an important factor. Some people in this thread think that consistence, commitment and health are meaningless when determining who is a better player. I simply disagree with such a view, that's all I wanted to say here (plus the thing about H2H's). Serena certainly has had a more successful career than Sharapova yet (she is older, therefore it's understandable), probably is a bad match up for her (though I still have some doubts), but nowadays is not that much better than Sharapova (actually she probably is worse than her, even though Sharapova too has some issues with the infamous shoulder, which brings her down more often than she would like), because she can't keep good health and high level of play over a long time - that's what makes a great player. Rankings should tell you that. Serena was fantastic in early 2000's, but since 2003 she hasn't been the same player.

Sharapova's health is fine at the moment.

kiwifan
Apr 18th, 2008, 10:56 PM
I wouldn't call it a inferiority complex...

...I'd call it a reality complex...

...Maria can blast most players off the court and she can't do that with Serena...

...Maria CAN beat Serena but both Maria and Serena know that all depends on which Serena shows up and when Slam Winning Serena shows up, Maria knows she's about to get schooled. :shrug:

Kunal
Apr 18th, 2008, 10:58 PM
i want serena to destroy her everytime she plays masha