PDA

View Full Version : Why doesn't Venus get outside help for her serve?


AcesHigh
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:23 AM
I'm a Venus fan, but I never really understood this or I don't remember her giving a reason.

Serena got outside help and she got fitter and her strokes were much cleaner(although it could be argued she lost her aggressiveness and she still isn't as quick/fast so it didn't matter as much). Nonetheless, that probably helped her win AO 2007.

Venus could honestly be at the top of the tour competing for slams and Tier I titles regularly, but her serve is SOOO bad compared to how good it can be. She has one of the most dominant first serves if not THE most dominant first serves in the game and yet, you can't even rely on her to hold. Tiebreaks are a nightmare because she'll probably throw in a DF or hit some powderpuff second serves.

The sad part is all this could be repaired with a few adjustments of technique. I checked in to live-scoring and she threw in 3 DF's in the first game of the second set. That's horrendous for a top player, yet with Venus it's nothing out of the ordinary.

If Henin can retool her game and fitness. If Sharapova can improve on her variety. If Serena can put down her pride and get help, what's holding Venus back?

~Eclipsed~
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:26 AM
Umm her serve is one of the best in the game. Ok maybe her second serve could use some work, but make sure you specify that. Some players have letdowns like she served 3 DFs in the first game of the second set. In the first set she served at 75% and no double faults.

There are players out there with a lot worse serves than hers.

AcesHigh
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:28 AM
Umm her serve is one of the best in the game. Ok maybe her second serve could use some work, but make sure you specify that. Some players have letdowns like she served 3 DFs in the first game of the second set. In the first set she served at 90% and no double faults.

There are players out there with a lot worse serves than hers.

Let me specify. Her serving is too inconsistent and her second serve too weak. When your serve isn't reliable as an aggressive baseliner, it makes it much harder to win matches.

IF Venus had a better second serve or more reliable first serve, she'd be winning more matches guaranteed.

In The Zone
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:33 AM
Agreed. But I don't know if it's technique. If you look at Wimbledon, her first serve percentages are through the roof. I think it's all in her head and focus. I think she gets bored out of there. She has never had the cut-throat spirit.

Tamus
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:37 AM
Umm her serve is one of the best in the game.

Her first serve is one of the best, but her second serve is :help:. Still, even if it is one of the best, that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. No one is above getting help in order to improve.

Paneru
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:40 AM
Agreed. But I don't know if it's technique. If you look at Wimbledon, her first serve percentages are through the roof. I think it's all in her head and focus. I think she gets bored out of there. She has never had the cut-throat spirit.

And not only that, but it was at this event last year that
her 1st sevre speed overall really got back up into the
mid-20's on a more regular basis that she carried
throughout the season.

I agree, I think it's all in her head as well.
Venus has mentioned before and even last year
that she has a tendency to have her mind wander
during matches.

really, i think this is just always going to Venus.
It's what make her vulnerable in any match, but also
makes her dangerous in any match. It's a huge reason
why she is able to make people marvel at places like
Wimbledon when it seems like prior to she can be all
over the place.

I've just accepted that this is Venus,
for better and worse. So to speak. ;)

ZeroSOFInfinity
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:41 AM
Well, maybe she thinks that hitting 180km/h bullets would win her games....?

She should watch and learn how Maria serves now... it's so effective and devasasting that most matches are won because of her serve alone.

Paneru
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:45 AM
Well, maybe she thinks that hitting 180km/h bullets would win her games....?

She should watch and learn how Maria serves now... it's so effective and devasasting that most matches are won because of her serve alone.

Huh?!?

Venus had the same issue's even
when she wasn't serving big.

I remember before last year, mary C. kept harping
on how Venus wasn't serving as hard as she used to.
This was from 04' to 06' really. I always chalked it
up to maybe Venus trying to prevent another ab strain.

Cakeisgood
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:46 AM
She needs to learn to serve smart, rather then just massively powerful. Masha learned to add kicks, angles etc. and that is the core of her success. However, at Wimby, it seems to all come together, so my guess is that it boils down to confidence (I would argue that Venus is the best grass player of her generation).

Uranium
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:48 AM
who cares about Maria, we are talking about VENUS. they are not close to similar.
Venus has a 70% first serve today, but 5 DFs.
i agree she needs a second serve.

Tennisstar86
Feb 27th, 2008, 01:51 AM
She needs to learn to serve smart, rather then just massively powerful. Masha learned to add kicks, angles etc. and that is the core of her success. However, at Wimby, it seems to all come together, so my guess is that it boils down to confidence (I would argue that Venus is the best grass player of her generation).

Of course it boils down to confidence.... anyone who plays the game knows this....getting ready to throw the ball up can be a nightmare if your not confident.. anyways.. she got work for the forehand last year... maybe she'll get some serve work later.. But IMO she doesnt need the serve work...its more of a confidence thing... if you lose it, the serve goes ary...if shes got it... Its fine...cant really help with that...

AcesHigh
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:10 AM
It's not confidence. I think this is a huge misconception. If you are a professional tennis player, your game should be solid enough so that it doesn't break down completely when you aren't "confident". VEnus's technique on serve is very flawed. Look at Serena and how fluid her motion is. Even when everything is going wrong and she is not confident, it's not her serve that is going to fail her.

Proper technique allows you to stay in matches when you are going through bad stretches. Now Venus looks like she will lose to Kvitova which really is disgraceful IMO, and I'm sure the 5 DF's in teh second set didn't help.

If she wants to return to the top 5, she should get some outside help IMHO. I'm just saying this as a concerned fan.

miffedmax
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:12 AM
Welcome to my world, AcesHigh, welcome to my world.

SV_Fan
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:12 AM
Tennisstar86 Venus was confident at the USO last year and that serve in the SF was not that great.

tonythetiger
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:14 AM
Venus is going home. She must be injured or she reentered that same funk from 2003/04. I'm sad.

V-MAC
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:14 AM
She needs to learn to serve smart, rather then just massively powerful. Masha learned to add kicks, angles etc. and that is the core of her success. However, at Wimby, it seems to all come together, so my guess is that it boils down to confidence (I would argue that Venus is the best grass player of her generation).

Agree. I've being saying for a while now that Vee needs to put placement on her serve. It is too predictable.

Uranium
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:16 AM
Venus is going home. She must be injured or she reentered that same funk from 2003/04. I'm sad.

:rolleyes:it's called playing a good opponent, Kvitova is like Davenport.

Tennisstar86
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:20 AM
Tennisstar86 Venus was confident at the USO last year and that serve in the SF was not that great.

says who? lol theres a difference between being confident on the ground and being confident on the serve..... Her serve did not look good during that match.... case and point why justine jumped all over it...

tonythetiger
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:21 AM
Venus lost! I would be more upset if I had gone to that darn tournament.:mad: What the mess is going on?:sad:

sammy01
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:22 AM
i dont like her grip on the racket when she serves, it makes her slice the serve out wide too often. yet having this grip and serving with slice out wide is so effective on grass, hence 4 wimbledon titles. her problem is doing this on hardcourts or clay especialy on 2nd serves when she has to take the pace off does 2 things, 1, it loses her control and racket head speed as the slice wont pull the ball into court like a topspin 2nd serve, hence her alarming lack of acceleration of the 2nd serve. and 2nd it sits up more and into players hit zone (hip high) instead of a topspin 2nd serve (shoulder hight). with her hight she should have learned to changed her grip slightly to enable her to topspin the 2nd serve. imagine if venus had mary pierces reliable topspin 2nd serve, she would hold serve with much more regularity.

AcesHigh
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:22 AM
This confidence thing is an excuse. So she is never confident outside of Wimbledon? Sounds like BS

Anyway, Venus is going home and if she keeps playing this, she will need to rework her serve. If she cant rework her serve she needs to be on from the first round and that obviously isn't happening. I believe in slumps, but slumps don't last for several years. She needs to get her act together if she wants to return to the top.

tonythetiger
Feb 27th, 2008, 02:22 AM
:rolleyes:it's called playing a good opponent, Kvitova is like Davenport.

If she's so good, why did Venus blow her off the court the first set and why is she virtually unheard of?

Cakeisgood
Feb 27th, 2008, 03:06 AM
This confidence thing is an excuse. So she is never confident outside of Wimbledon? Sounds like BS

Anyway, Venus is going home and if she keeps playing this, she will need to rework her serve. If she cant rework her serve she needs to be on from the first round and that obviously isn't happening. I believe in slumps, but slumps don't last for several years. She needs to get her act together if she wants to return to the top.

Well, to each his own, but what I'm saying is that Wimbledon is her comfort zone, and a speedy serve (as opposed to a smart serve) is largely rewarded on grass (last year's Wimbledon final proved that). Ugh, and she lost, that's sad.

Tamus
Feb 27th, 2008, 03:11 AM
i dont like her grip on the racket when she serves, it makes her slice the serve out wide too often. yet having this grip and serving with slice out wide is so effective on grass, hence 4 wimbledon titles. her problem is doing this on hardcourts or clay especialy on 2nd serves when she has to take the pace off does 2 things, 1, it loses her control and racket head speed as the slice wont pull the ball into court like a topspin 2nd serve, hence her alarming lack of acceleration of the 2nd serve. and 2nd it sits up more and into players hit zone (hip high) instead of a topspin 2nd serve (shoulder hight). with her hight she should have learned to changed her grip slightly to enable her to topspin the 2nd serve. imagine if venus had mary pierces reliable topspin 2nd serve, she would hold serve with much more regularity.

Totally agree. And this goes a long way in explaining why she has never won at AO or RG.

Serenidad.
Feb 27th, 2008, 06:17 AM
Venus isn't as talented and great as her younger sister. Let her dwell where she is. Her fans can be truely happy for two weeks a year at Wimbledon.

DimaDinosaur
Feb 27th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Richard is not letting her. He wants to be her coach on court and in the bedroom. :sad:

pav
Feb 27th, 2008, 08:38 AM
Richard wanted V to go to tennis rehab
she said No! No! No!

VeeReeDavJCap81
Feb 27th, 2008, 08:49 AM
Richard wanted V to go to tennis rehab
she said No! No! No!

You tried,