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View Full Version : If Kim had won 2001 RG, do you think her career would have been very different?


DaMamaJama87
Feb 23rd, 2008, 07:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuwGZ5mpDf0

I was just rewatching that match. What an amazing battle!:worship:
Such power, speed, agility and most importantly heart on display from both players. I was rooting for Kim but I couldn't help but feel happy for Capriati too. I remember the first time I watched it, the entire third set had me in fits :lol:

Kim was within 2 points of winning that match 4 times. I think if she had somehow won that match and her maiden GS final, her career would have turned out very differently. She would've got all the support from Belgium that Justine got for winning their first slam. I don't think she would be as nervy in later finals and this match would've propelled her into superstardom much earlier. Maybe she wouldn't have hated playing on clay so much either :p

Slutati
Feb 23rd, 2008, 07:58 PM
She had a wonderful carrer I don't think i could ask for anything more than what she achieved.She was one of the best and i miss her:sad:

Nicolás89
Feb 23rd, 2008, 07:58 PM
If Kim had won 2001 RG, do you think her career would have been very different?

Of course, she would have 2 single slams.

Dave.
Feb 23rd, 2008, 08:03 PM
She is an all-time great anyway, but she could have been so much better had she won more of those slam finals. It would have been much better had she beaten Henin in 2003 in a final. The 2001 loss was tough, but had Kim won it I still think she would have had her slight lapse in 2002 anyway. 2003 was when it really mattered, especially because she was facing Henin.

Slumpsova
Feb 23rd, 2008, 09:38 PM
i do :o

Slumpsova
Feb 23rd, 2008, 09:38 PM
damn i miss her :o

Slumpsova
Feb 23rd, 2008, 09:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuwGZ5mpDf0

I was just rewatching that match. What an amazing battle!:worship:
Such power, speed, agility and most importantly heart on display from both players. I was rooting for Kim but I couldn't help but feel happy for Capriati too. I remember the first time I watched it, the entire third set had me in fits :lol:

Kim was within 2 points of winning that match 4 times. I think if she had somehow won that match and her maiden GS final, her career would have turned out very differently. She would've got all the support from Belgium that Justine got for winning their first slam. I don't think she would be as nervy in later finals and this match would've propelled her into superstardom much earlier. Maybe she wouldn't have hated playing on clay so much either :p
she doesn't hate clay bc she never won RG title. she hates it bc it costs her serious injury.

ToeTag
Feb 23rd, 2008, 09:46 PM
Has she had her kid yet?

jonny84
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:17 PM
I think it would not have been much different - she would have just had one extra slam.

Kim had a very respectable career, one that any player would kill for.

cecilija
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:20 PM
RG 2001 should have been Justine's first slam, but she choked it away in the semis.

Kim was lucky to have reached the finals in the first place.

AcesHigh
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:23 PM
RG 2001 should have been Justine's first slam, but she choked it away in the semis.

Kim was lucky to have reached the finals in the first place.

Just like Kim has choked or not shown up mentally almost every time she's played in a slam against Henin? :rolleyes:
I guess Justine was "lucky" too.

cecilija
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:25 PM
Just like Kim has choked or not shown up mentally almost every time she's played in a slam against Henin? :rolleyes:
I guess Justine was "lucky" too.

I don't remember Kim ever choking like Henin did in that semifinal match.

As far as for not showing up mentally, if that's your excuse for being comprehensively beaten by Henin, then so be it. :lol:

DaMamaJama87
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:35 PM
I don't remember Kim ever choking like Henin did in that semifinal match.




Did you watch the US Open final 2003? Australian Open semifinal 2003? Wimbledon semifinal 2003? Berlin 2003?
Of course you don't remember them. :tape:

cecilija
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:40 PM
Did you watch the US Open final 2003? Australian Open semifinal 2003? Wimbledon semifinal 2003? Berlin 2003?
Of course you don't remember them. :tape:

I remember them all too well.

Mileen
Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:55 PM
Yes, I think so. I was thinking about that myself too. It would have been a big confident boost as a youngster.

bwahahahahaha
Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:06 PM
For sure. Kim was capable of dominating the tour. She was that good. That first slam as a teen would give her the mental strength to dominate. Such a shame she retired at 23 :o And such a tough bitch that Capriati was :devil:

AcesHigh
Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:16 PM
For sure. Kim was capable of dominating the tour. She was that good. That first slam as a teen would give her the mental strength to dominate. Such a shame she retired at 23 :o And such a tough bitch that Capriati was :devil:

to dominate? No. No way Venus was going to lose the summer slams to Kim. Neither would Kim have stopped Serena in 2002, but she would have been a much bigger force and she probably would have been mentally strong enough to perform better against Justine in 2003 or maybe not collapse against Serena that same year at AO.

thrust
Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:16 PM
She is an all-time great anyway, but she could have been so much better had she won more of those slam finals. It would have been much better had she beaten Henin in 2003 in a final. The 2001 loss was tough, but had Kim won it I still think she would have had her slight lapse in 2002 anyway. 2003 was when it really mattered, especially because she was facing Henin.

Mostly true. She was a great player, but not an all-time great. Had she won the FO against Capriati, she would probably would have gained the confidence to win more Slams. She just wasn^t quite mentally tough enough to be a great champion.

bwahahahahaha
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:10 AM
to dominate? No. No way Venus was going to lose the summer slams to Kim. Neither would Kim have stopped Serena in 2002, but she would have been a much bigger force and she probably would have been mentally strong enough to perform better against Justine in 2003 or maybe not collapse against Serena that same year at AO.

I'm talking about the period after Serena's unnecessary knee surgery. Had Kim won French open 2001 she could have stolen one or two slams from Justine. Particularly Us open and Australian open. Or maybe even French open 2003 because she would've already won it in 2001 and wouldn't choke so bad. "Would've" "could've" ":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:" I know :p but I'm just saying ;)

Instead what did she do? Got mad after Hewitt cheated on him, beat up the entire tour and eventually won her first slam. After she got over Huey immediately found another guy to marry and totally lost her desire to win. Next she retired at 23 years old :o That is almost a crime! If I had her talent........ :angel:

AcesHigh
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:14 AM
I'm talking about the period after Serena's unnecessary knee surgery. Had Kim won French open 2001 she could have stolen one or two slams from Justine. Particularly Us open and Australian open. Or maybe even French open 2003 because she would've already won it in 2001 and wouldn't choke so bad. "Would've" "could've" ":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:" I know :p but I'm just saying ;)

Instead what did she do? Got mad after Hewitt cheated on him, beat up the entire tour and eventually won her first slam. After she got over Huey immediately found another guy to marry and totally lost her desire to win. Next she retired at 23 years old :o That is almost a crime! If I had her talent........ :angel:

:lol: Nice post. Yea, being a Kim fan can be hard. Another story of so much potential not fulfilled. I agree though, it could have changed her career.

Now she's stuck with 1 slam...in the same category as Kuznetsova, Myskina, Majoli and others :sad:

Thanx4nothin
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:28 AM
She is an all-time great anyway, but she could have been so much better had she won more of those slam finals. It would have been much better had she beaten Henin in 2003 in a final. The 2001 loss was tough, but had Kim won it I still think she would have had her slight lapse in 2002 anyway. 2003 was when it really mattered, especially because she was facing Henin.

By what standard, she isn't in the league of the graf's and Navratilova's, nor is she in the league with the Seles', Williamses and Henin, nor is she in the standard of Lindsay or Jennifer, so no she is by no stretch of the imagination an all time great. I don't mean to be rude by this BTW i just found it odd you calling her that because I even think she could have won 5+ slams with that potential but the facts are, shes historically grouped with the Myskina's of tennis.:sad:

jujufreak
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuwGZ5mpDf0

I was just rewatching that match. What an amazing battle!:worship:
Such power, speed, agility and most importantly heart on display from both players. I was rooting for Kim but I couldn't help but feel happy for Capriati too. I remember the first time I watched it, the entire third set had me in fits :lol:

Kim was within 2 points of winning that match 4 times. I think if she had somehow won that match and her maiden GS final, her career would have turned out very differently. She would've got all the support from Belgium that Justine got for winning their first slam. I don't think she would be as nervy in later finals and this match would've propelled her into superstardom much earlier. Maybe she wouldn't have hated playing on clay so much either :p

Apparently you're not aware of this, but both Justine and Kim had their fan base before their big win, Kim's Masters title or Justine's RG title didn't affect the support they got. None of them got the support of ALL Belgium.

As stated by someone else, Kim didn't hate playing on clay because she couldn't win the French Open, as a fan, you should know that...

to answer your question: she wouldn't have ended her career as one slam wonder, so yes, it would have been different. She also might have had the ability to end a match while leading 5-1, which gave her a bit the reputation of a mental midget, but in the end, it wouldn't have changed a lot, because the champions of the post-Graf era (Justine for example :p ) still would have beaten her

jujufreak
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:45 AM
Got mad after Hewitt cheated on him, beat up the entire tour and eventually won her first slam. After she got over Huey immediately found another guy to marry and totally lost her desire to win. Next she retired at 23 years old :o That is almost a crime! If I had her talent........ :angel:

you make it sound like she dominated the whole of 2005, don't forget she lost to Lindsay Davenport at Roland Garros and got knocked out of San Diego by Shuai Peng (afterwards she said Peng would be top-3 in the near future :tape: )

bwahahahahaha
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:52 AM
you make it sound like she dominated the whole of 2005, don't forget she lost to Lindsay Davenport at Roland Garros and got knocked out of San Diego by Shuai Peng (afterwards she said Peng would be top-3 in the near future :tape: )

Come on admit it. You are upset because I said she could've stolen Justine's slams. Come on :devil:

jujufreak
Feb 24th, 2008, 01:04 AM
Come on admit it. You are upset because I said she could've stolen Justine's slams. Come on :devil:

the fact you use the word "stolen" says it all :angel:

bwahahahahaha
Feb 24th, 2008, 01:10 AM
the fact you use the word "stolen" says it all :angel:

Considering Justine cheated to win two of them, it'd be fair :devil:

jujufreak
Feb 24th, 2008, 01:19 AM
Considering Justine cheated to win two of them, it'd be fair :devil:

you know Justine never cheated. Once she was able to compete with the top players physically (thank you, Pat Etcheberry), her talent was enough to beat Kim most of the time ;)

That's all I'll say about it, otherwise it's going to be ME who'll be blamed for turning this Kim thread into a Justine thread :rolleyes:

:wavey:

samsam4087
Feb 24th, 2008, 01:54 AM
Of course, she would have 2 single slams.

also, Jennifer would only have 2 single slams.

:lol::lol::lol:

Dave.
Feb 24th, 2008, 02:17 AM
Mostly true. She was a great player, but not an all-time great. Had she won the FO against Capriati, she would probably would have gained the confidence to win more Slams. She just wasn^t quite mentally tough enough to be a great champion.

By what standard, she isn't in the league of the graf's and Navratilova's, nor is she in the league with the Seles', Williamses and Henin, nor is she in the standard of Lindsay or Jennifer, so no she is by no stretch of the imagination an all time great. I don't mean to be rude by this BTW i just found it odd you calling her that because I even think she could have won 5+ slams with that potential but the facts are, shes historically grouped with the Myskina's of tennis.:sad:

The fact that she is one of 5 players to rank number 1 in singles & doubles (which is one of the highest possible achievements in tennis), and her 2003/2005 seasons were so high achieving. Perhaps she is lacking in the slam title area, but a total of 3 slams and 6 further finals is a credible feat. She may not be up there in Seles, Lindsay's, Williamses league, but I would still regard her an all-time great. You could make arguments for her being greater than Capriati, and she certainly is greater than Myskina.

Robert-KimClijst
Feb 24th, 2008, 03:45 AM
1 grand slam, 2 double grand slams, 4 grand slam finals, 2 year-end championships should make her an all-time great. Had she won those other grand slam finals she'd be in the same category as Lindsay and the Williams, perhaps. But I think she's always going to be one of the all-time greats (even if she is one of the all time greats to have never reached near their all-time potential). I'd be horrified if she wasn't inducted into the Hall of Fame.

AcesHigh
Feb 24th, 2008, 06:30 AM
1 grand slam, 2 double grand slams, 4 grand slam finals, 2 year-end championships should make her an all-time great. Had she won those other grand slam finals she'd be in the same category as Lindsay and the Williams, perhaps. But I think she's always going to be one of the all-time greats (even if she is one of the all time greats to have never reached near their all-time potential). I'd be horrified if she wasn't inducted into the Hall of Fame.

She's not really an all-time great when she's ranked below at least 5 of her contemporaries. If that were the case, we'd have hundreds of all-time greats.

She's a great player :) but not a legend of an all-time great. 1 slam doesn't cut it.

spiritedenergy
Feb 24th, 2008, 06:33 AM
no, Kim Clijsters achieved exactly what she deserved for her commitment and talent.

Brooks.
Feb 24th, 2008, 06:39 AM
she should have won the us open 03'

that final was ridiculous

gmak
Feb 24th, 2008, 09:52 AM
don't forget that Sandra de Jenken may have robbed her another slam title :mad: :fiery:
where was hawk-eye in 2004? :mad:

i miss Kim :sad:

maryjane
Feb 24th, 2008, 10:10 AM
I loved kim but jennifer has always been my favorite one so I'm happy with the way the final went.Maybe if she won the second final something could have changed.From that she suffered so much under the psycological point of view justine henin.Maybe the thing that could have been different was the number of slam's titles.Because among the other tournaments and the ranking she achieved very much.
yeah,I miss her as well.

Highlandman
Feb 24th, 2008, 10:46 AM
Of course. Cos of another ranking after it and another ranking says other opponents :p

Maybe she woould have got more confident for future.

WIMBLY2004
Feb 24th, 2008, 12:24 PM
She wasn't spurred up after winning USO 05, she actually seemed she lost interest in tennis after the slam win, so I think if she won slam earlier, she might have even retired earlier, maybe she wouldn't come back after the wrist injury.

cellophane
Feb 24th, 2008, 02:27 PM
She's not really an all-time great when she's ranked below at least 5 of her contemporaries. If that were the case, we'd have hundreds of all-time greats.

Slams aren't everything. I think Kim's level of tennis ranks pretty high with some of the all-time's greats...I'm not saying she'd win, but she'd give most players competitive matches... plus she's had some amazing wins. And I don't agree that there'd be hundreds of all-time greats. I think Kim is clearly separate from everyone else who has won one slam f.e., like Kuznetsova and Myskina.

to dominate? No. No way Venus was going to lose the summer slams to Kim. either would Kim have stopped Serena in 2002, but she would have been a much bigger force and she probably would have been mentally strong enough to perform better against Justine in 2003 or maybe not collapse against Serena that same year at AO.There is never "no way". :shrug: Although I don't think she would've dominated... who knows? Serena won those slams... but doesn't mean Venus /Kim couldn't beat that level "in theory". They just didn't. Kim was up 5-1 in AO '03 like you said.

terjw
Feb 24th, 2008, 02:54 PM
1 grand slam, 2 double grand slams, 4 grand slam finals, 2 year-end championships should make her an all-time great. Had she won those other grand slam finals she'd be in the same category as Lindsay and the Williams, perhaps. But I think she's always going to be one of the all-time greats (even if she is one of the all time greats to have never reached near their all-time potential). I'd be horrified if she wasn't inducted into the Hall of Fame.

I agree. And we could add twice winning 9 tournaments in a year. And in 2005 back to back wins at Indian Wells and Miami - not done since Stefi. But there's another thing about Kim too. The sheer number of wins she had and the fact she hardly ever lost. Nearly every tournament it was a shock if she didn't make the finals at least. Her overall win to loss record was extraordinarily high - way above some players rated as greats with multiple slams. I know Justine and Serena have a better win to loss record that Kim. And I think Maria is just better or about the same but with fewer total matches of course at the moments. Not sure on Venus - she's probably higher but I'm not sure. But I know that apart from these three (assuming Venus' is better) - Kim's win loss record is way better than anyone else including triple slam winners Linsdsay and Jen. This to me makes her a very special case.

The shame was she underperformed in slams. Who knows if she'd won RG in 2001. No use wondering about if's amd what might've been now. I don't see that as the important one for why she underperformed in terms of slam wins anyway. She was the underdog then and young and did amazingly well to get there and be so close. It was that RG 2003 final where she played so badly that upset me. Why did she have to play her worst match of the season then?