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View Full Version : One reason chakvetadze wins so many matches!


sammy01
Feb 9th, 2008, 09:53 PM
in her press confrence after her win over bartoli she said this;

"Agnes is a very tough opponent. She's has a very good backhand. It won't be easy but I'll try to do my best."

unlike lena d today, shes just so aware of who shes playing and their strengths and weaknesses. i felt lena d hit 95% of her backhands to szavays backhand as thats the shot she likes to play, only trouble is szavay gets a better angle on her backhand and hits the DTL backhand so well. im not saying annas going to win the match tommorrow but she will try and play it right, hitting to szavays forehand more and moving her wide on the forehand, which she dosen't move as well to.

so many players these days are totaly oblivous to what the person on the other side of the net is doing. its amazing how many matches can be won by reading the play, its an art that alot of the girls have not got in todays game.

jonny84
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:18 PM
Makes sense to check out your opposition beforehand.

Demska
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:47 PM
I know Lena and tactics don't really go, but Lena would have done her homework. Lena plays a lot cross court, especially on the BH. look at 2006 Stuttgart 2r vs Srebotnik, everything was cross court. I wish lena would hit DTL on the BH more.

Peterk07
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Maria is tall and strong. Jelena is fast and f*cking reliable. Anna is smart. But what I love about her the most, is the "Chak attack" that she showed us last week. :)

Harvs
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:51 PM
yeah she is smart:) but all players snoop out info about their opponents... dementeiva would have had a reason for hitting it to szavays backhand, plan just didnt work out

kolan
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:54 PM
Maria is tall and strong. Jelena is fast and f*cking reliable. Anna is smart. But what I love about her the most, is the "Chak attack" that she showed us last week. :)

obizler definately couldnt have predicted anna would do that :lol:

LudwigDvorak
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:55 PM
It's always small, subtle changes, but Elena's tactics do change up between opponents. Against Patty and Amelie she frequents the net much more often than she usually does, for example. She knew about Szavay and her game. She scouts.

But anyway. Anna. She wins matches bc shes a cheter && teh fileld sux!11

Or maybe it's because she executes the angles and down the line better than most players. She wins because of her FH and BH DTL shots, I swear to god. She makes her opponents run, even if she isn't very powerful. That indeed is smart.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 9th, 2008, 10:57 PM
Anna is fucking good

sammy01
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:07 PM
...;12478280']yeah she is smart:) but all players snoop out info about their opponents... dementeiva would have had a reason for hitting it to szavays backhand, plan just didnt work out

lena hit constantly to szavays backhand because lena always hits her backhand crosscourt. it wasn't a tactic it was lena playing her game and not realising that it was doing her more harm than good.

alot of players research other players and know there strengths and weaknesses but very few exploit them, or know how to. there are cetain players that i wont name, that if you asked them about how there opponents played after a match and which of there shots were better, they wouldn't have a clue.

scoobsuk
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:21 PM
I don't think a lot of players do scope out the opposition, or don't pay much attention if they do - I don't they are lying when they say things like "I just play my game, I concentrate on what I need to do, on my side of the net and don't worry about what they're doing"

And I think that's a shame, because it just makes sense to try and understand your opponent's weaknesses and devise a gameplan to counter it - even if it's just "stay off the backhand"

Steffica Greles
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:22 PM
in her press confrence after her win over bartoli she said this;

"Agnes is a very tough opponent. She's has a very good backhand. It won't be easy but I'll try to do my best."

unlike lena d today, shes just so aware of who shes playing and their strengths and weaknesses. i felt lena d hit 95% of her backhands to szavays backhand as thats the shot she likes to play, only trouble is szavay gets a better angle on her backhand and hits the DTL backhand so well. im not saying annas going to win the match tommorrow but she will try and play it right, hitting to szavays forehand more and moving her wide on the forehand, which she dosen't move as well to.

so many players these days are totaly oblivous to what the person on the other side of the net is doing. its amazing how many matches can be won by reading the play, its an art that alot of the girls have not got in todays game.
True.
And the irony to all of this is people pinpoint the growth of this type of tennis to Monica Seles. What they forget is that Monica only unloaded at select moments, either when the chips were down and she had nothing to lose, or when she needed to force a decision.

Seles, barring Hingis and Sanchez-Vicario, was probably the most tactically astute world class player since Chris Evert. The way she dissected Graf's game, even though she was facing a superior and more powerful athlete, was genius. If people watch many of Seles' matches, most of her shots were actually positional. She was no Maria Sharapova or Serena Williams, who pound each shot, whilst simultaneously giving their bones the same kind of treatment.

The antecedent to the egocentric type of play we witness is probably Venus and Serena. Arguably Mary Pierce, but she was never consistent enough from 1994-1997 to make much of an impact on the styles of the other women. Venus and Serena, on the other hand, really invented all-out, largely thoughtless power tennis (I remember Pete Sampras saying that Venus' toss was indicative of a player not knowing where she was going to serve the ball!).

Hingis forced other players to really hit blitz the court with crushing power, because otherwise they invariably lost to her. Against Hingis, players couldn't give her the time to construct her points, nor themselves the space to become tentative about their aggression.

So, blame Hingis. Although, on this occasion, she deserves credit for forcing opponents to produce largely unplayable tennis.

scoobsuk
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:25 PM
True.
And the irony to all of this is people pinpoint the growth of this type of tennis to Monica Seles. What they forget is that Monica only unloaded at select moments, either when the chips were down and she had nothing to lose, or when she needed to force a decision.
Seles, barring Hingis and Sanchez-Vicario, was probably the most tactically astute world class player since Chris Evert. If people watch many of her matches, most of her shots were actually positional. She was no Maria Sharapova or Serena Williams, pounding each shot, whilst simultaneously giving their bones the same kind of treatment.
True - Seles was a classic exponent of the art of attacking the weaker wing of an opponent, getting the short ball or getting the opponent out of position and going full into attack on the next shot.

It may have looked like mindless ballbashing to the untrained eye but she was very good at working the point before unloading. Watching some of her early 90s matches against Graf tells this story - constant attacking the backhand until the slice came back short or popped up and then BAM.

sammy01
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:29 PM
True.
And the irony to all of this is people pinpoint the growth of this type of tennis to Monica Seles. What they forget is that Monica only unloaded at select moments, either when the chips were down and she had nothing to lose, or when she needed to force a decision.
Seles, barring Hingis and Sanchez-Vicario, was probably the most tactically astute world class player since Chris Evert. If people watch many of her matches, most of her shots were actually positional. She was no Maria Sharapova or Serena Williams, pounding each shot, whilst simultaneously giving their bones the same kind of treatment.

oh i agree completely about seles. i remember when she used to play henin she would attack the forehand time and time again, as she felt that was the side that would break down. i feel players should do this with henin more often as she can always fall back on her slice if her backhand isn't working well. seles was very tacticaly astute and like you say never got recognition for it.

Peterk07
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:59 PM
...;12478280']yeah she is smart:) but all players snoop out info about their opponents...

I didn't mean Anna being smart because she preseects the good tactic, but because she is smart on court. She can analyze the opponent's game, and can change her tactics if necessary.

Talking about Agnes vs Elena, that match is a good example how I mean being smart: Agnes lost the second set badly, because Elena figured out how to return her fast 1st serves and 2nd serves excellently. She was hitting winners by winners back to Agnes's side. Agnes had to change her serves. Instead of hitting her "normal" 180-190km/h first ones, she started to serve 130-150km/h slow and long ones with a lot of spin, not letting Elena to "bomb" her return back immediately, but forcing longer rallies. She also changes her shots, using a lot of "moonballs" which she normally never does.

That's what Anna does really well. Figures out the opponents achilles heel, and takes advantage of it.

spiritedenergy
Feb 10th, 2008, 12:25 AM
I was watching AO final and noticed that Sharapova was also trying to exploit Ana's (solid) BH. At some point she noticed that Ana's FH was totally off and started pounding on it and Ana lost in the second set rather easily. I think court sense is something every top player has, not only Chakvetadze or Seles. Even Serena and Venus know that to beat Sharapova they need to make her run...

iPatty
Feb 10th, 2008, 12:42 AM
Anna is not the only player that knows about her opponent's strengths. :tape:

Elena is just stubborn and loves the cross-court.

ys
Feb 10th, 2008, 01:05 AM
Bullshit.. Tennis analytics from Mommy Vera are far superior to anything you can ever find on Tour.. Lena was just practicing her inside-out forehand for RG and Olympics..

iPatty
Feb 10th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Bullshit.. Tennis analytics from Mommy Vera are far superior to anything you can ever find on Tour.. Lena was just practicing her inside-out forehand for RG and Olympics..

Oh my b.

bwahahahahaha
Feb 10th, 2008, 02:19 AM
I was watching AO final and noticed that Sharapova was also trying to exploit Ana's (solid) BH. At some point she noticed that Ana's FH was totally off and started pounding on it and Ana lost in the second set rather easily. I think court sense is something every top player has, not only Chakvetadze or Seles. Even Serena and Venus know that to beat Sharapova they need to make her run...

Even? You are aware of the fact that Serena held all four slams at once, right? That cannot be done without "court sense". Did you watch Miami final last year? That was a perfect example of fighting spirit and change of tactics plus a little bit of choke from her opponent :angel:

thiskidhasit
Feb 10th, 2008, 02:37 AM
It is important to notice if your opponents have weaknesses and to exploit them throughout the match. However, it's not easy to say, "Oh, just keep it to her backhand..." If you hit to one side over and over, the player is going to get in a rhythm. To exploit someone's weakness you oftentimes have to play to the player's strengths so you can OPEN UP the court and then pick on the weaker side.

As Steffica says, Hingis was REALLY good at doing this. What hurt Martina, IMO, as she got older is that she was reluctant to hit a forehand cross-court. Martina usually tried to break down opponent's backhands, but she was not confident hitting a forehand crosscourt, which is critical if you're wanting to exploit someone's backhand - you have to open up the court.

However, this thread is about Chakvetadze - and the similarities to Hingis are definitely noticeable. But Anna goes for A LOT more lines than Hingis, and she hits the ball a lot flatter. Unfortunately, Anna really needs to work on her net game... she could finish off so many points at the net if she could volley better. With that said, she is definitely a thinker on court, and that's why she is my current favorite on the tour.

spiritedenergy
Feb 10th, 2008, 02:52 AM
Even? You are aware of the fact that Serena held all four slams at once, right? That cannot be done without "court sense". Did you watch Miami final last year? That was a perfect example of fighting spirit and change of tactics plus a little bit of choke from her opponent :angel:

That's exactly my point, someone in this thread (Stefffica Greles or whatever) said that Serena is power with no brain and they couldn't be wronger, it's very stupid. Serena is very smart on court, not less than Chackevetadze for sure.

thiskidhasit
Feb 10th, 2008, 03:47 AM
Every player on the tour is a smart player - but Serena doesn't have to think as much as a Hingis or a Jankovic because she hits the ball so deep and so hard. They are just different kinds of players.

mankind
Feb 10th, 2008, 04:35 AM
Anna is not the only player that knows about her opponent's strengths. :tape:

Elena is just stubborn and loves the cross-court.

True. It's silly to think that the players don't know their opponent's strengths and weaknesses, but a match situation is entirely different to a comfortable sit-down with your coach talking about tactics. The players don't have a birds-eye view of the match, they play it from their end of the court and will often revert to their comfort zones (CC shots, or standing well behind the baseline) and might only realise afterwards what they were doing.

No Name Face
Feb 10th, 2008, 04:36 AM
anna is impressive indeed

Indytennis
Feb 10th, 2008, 05:52 AM
That's exactly my point, someone in this thread (Stefffica Greles or whatever) said that Serena is power with no brain and they couldn't be wronger, it's very stupid. Serena is very smart on court, not less than Chackevetadze for sure.

whats stupid..is that you used the made up word wronger.
I disagree that all the players are smart out there. At this level they are to an extent but chak is one of the best to come around and I think that is why she hasnt gotten a lot of respect from people yet. People think she is overrated because she doesnt have huge weapons but she is winning and ranked where she is because she plays smart.

spiritedenergy
Feb 10th, 2008, 06:07 AM
whats stupid..is that you used the made up word wronger.
I disagree that all the players are smart out there. At this level they are to an extent but chak is one of the best to come around and I think that is why she hasnt gotten a lot of respect from people yet. People think she is overrated because she doesnt have huge weapons but she is winning and ranked where she is because she plays smart.

It's not made up, go read some books and you'll find it (i can give you some references too):tape::help::lol:

sammy01
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:07 AM
True. It's silly to think that the players don't know their opponent's strengths and weaknesses, but a match situation is entirely different to a comfortable sit-down with your coach talking about tactics. The players don't have a birds-eye view of the match, they play it from their end of the court and will often revert to their comfort zones (CC shots, or standing well behind the baseline) and might only realise afterwards what they were doing.

as i said in one of my previous comments, its one thing knowing an opponents weaknesses and its another being able to exploit them. some girls realy do leave there brains in the locker room sometimes.

sammy01
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:08 AM
It's not made up, go read some books and you'll find it (i can give you some references too):tape::help::lol:

btw wronger isn't a word.

powerbackhand
Feb 10th, 2008, 09:07 AM
it is good to know who your playing and have tactics against them but i think anna thinks sometimes too much about it like against sharapova. it is becoming too much of a big deal playing sharapova and i think one of the reasons for her not playing well against maria is that she is thinking too much about how she should play

skanky~skanketta
Feb 10th, 2008, 09:39 AM
the best tactic is to try to breakdown the strength of the opponent. when that goes, they have nothing. of course, ur strength needs to be great for u to be able to this. good example is venus vs justine a few years ago before justine's forehand became a weapon. Venus brokedown justine's bh and left justine powerless on court. thankfully, that's not the case anymore.

lympyisthebest
Feb 10th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Wronger is a word. It's the noun of wrong.

spiritedenergy
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Wronger is a word. It's the noun of wrong.

not only

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00028C98-6F5C-152E-A9F183414B7F0000

people get an education please:help:

frenchie
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Anna C is one of the last few players to take her opponents' games into account....

laurie
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:22 PM
in her press confrence after her win over bartoli she said this;

"Agnes is a very tough opponent. She's has a very good backhand. It won't be easy but I'll try to do my best."

unlike lena d today, shes just so aware of who shes playing and their strengths and weaknesses. i felt lena d hit 95% of her backhands to szavays backhand as thats the shot she likes to play, only trouble is szavay gets a better angle on her backhand and hits the DTL backhand so well. im not saying annas going to win the match tommorrow but she will try and play it right, hitting to szavays forehand more and moving her wide on the forehand, which she dosen't move as well to.

so many players these days are totaly oblivous to what the person on the other side of the net is doing. its amazing how many matches can be won by reading the play, its an art that alot of the girls have not got in todays game.

You make an interesting point about Elena - but to be frank, at the end of the day, tactics count for absolutely nothing if Elena cannot rely on her serve throughout the course of a Tennis match.

And as you saw again, she served for the match and got broken. In fact, everyone in that stadium, everyone watching on television, and Aganes Szavay knew that there was a 75% chance Elena would lose her serve in that situation.

I really don't know waht else t say about Elena Dementieva anymore.

goldenlox
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:22 PM
Anna knew to work over Szavay's forehand side.
Anna is better than people think. Just because she wasn't doing well at age 16 or 17 means nothing now.
Anna is going to be in the top 10 for a long time.

Keaka
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I'm not sure about that.

It's more because she's very tough to play against. Her shots are very flat plus she really has all the weird shots like slice, dropshot,...

that's my opinion though :)

Keaka
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Wronger should be more wrong, right?

I'm writing english test tomorrow, gotta practice :lol:

dybbuk
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Yes, and I'm sure fake injury timeouts don't hurt either. :spit:

égalité
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Wronger is a word. It just isn't an adjective. :p

Anna plays so much like Hingis. I know she doesn't like the comparison, but it's undeniable (and not a bad comparison, either).

goldenlox
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Mary Pierce was there. Maybe that was Anna's tribute to Pierce, a master of the strategic injury timeout.

sammy01
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:41 PM
well the only game i have on video to count, the last game anna breaks to win, she hits 5 shots to szavays forehand and only 2 to her backhand. also 3 of the shots chakvetadze hits to szavays forehand are rallying shots, the 2 shots chakvetadze hits to szavays backhand are both attacking shots, which forces a one handed slice off szavay on one point, and a off ballanced error on the match point with the other. again to me this is just clever, she went to the backhand when she knew szavay couldn't hit a great shot back off it.

psihadal
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I agree, i think Chakvetadze is constantly being underated.

spiritedenergy
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:46 PM
Mary Pierce was there. Maybe that was Anna's tribute to Pierce, a master of the strategic injury timeout.

omg:tape:

frenchie
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:47 PM
She's fast
She's clever
She has all the shots (serve has improved, no more DFs!)
She can hit with a lot of pace contrary to what a lot of people think

bwahahahahaha
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:49 PM
Wronger is a word. It just isn't an adjective. :p

Anna plays so much like Hingis. I know she doesn't like the comparison, but it's undeniable (and not a bad comparison, either).

She plays nothing like Hingis.

And what? She doesn't like the comparison? Oh I'm sorry Anna. Who would you prefer? Graf? :rolleyes:

danieln1
Feb 10th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Anna is a very smart player, she uses her opponent´s weaknesses, move the ball around, that´s why she has 7 titles

Mic-190286
Feb 11th, 2008, 06:35 PM
as i said in one of my previous comments, its one thing knowing an opponents weaknesses and its another being able to exploit them. some girls realy do leave there brains in the locker room sometimes.

their brains :angel:

Anyway, Anna is rapidly gaining in my favour. Sometimes her nerves and emotion let her down but her i really like to watch her game. Those 7 titles seem to have come pretty quickly don't they?!

Wayn77
Feb 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM
Yes, I'm warming to Ms Chakvetadze all the time.

When it's all working and precise (the third set) she's terrific to watch. When it isn't (the second set) she can look awfully lightweight. Here's hoping for a bit more consistency in pursuit of the big prizes.

Bruno71
Feb 12th, 2008, 01:14 AM
Yes, I'm warming to Ms Chakvetadze all the time.

When it's all working and precise (the third set) she's terrific to watch. When it isn't (the second set) she can look awfully lightweight. Here's hoping for a bit more consistency in pursuit of the big prizes.

Yeah that's sort of how it goes...they're great to watch when things are working and look like posers when they're not :lol: There isn't any player that's always 100% consistent, especially depending on their opponents, but Chaky could stand to not let her game go totally off the rails more often, like in the semis at last year's US Open.

stevos
Feb 12th, 2008, 01:56 AM
Yes, Anna is a smart girl. She's definitely rapidly moving up the charts in my book.
However, I don't know if I really believe the "I only focus on my game" comments many players use. And if it's true, it always has really frustrated me. Why not go for the shot that will put you in a better position to win? Why not realize the other player's weakness? It's not a weakness to be aware of your opponent.

Shooter
Feb 12th, 2008, 04:39 AM
Anna is fucking good There you go. That's all there is to it. I'm not being facetious. I agree with you.

Sammm
Feb 12th, 2008, 11:01 AM
I was at her match against Momo in Paris last week and I was shocked by how hard she was hitting the ball, but also very few errors, quite a few aces, excellent movement. I think she's a slam possibility that's how impressed I was. Mentally strong too - didn't let a tough but fair Parisian crowd get to her in any way.

Kworb
Feb 12th, 2008, 11:51 AM
Chakvetadze is just magical to watch. When you think she has lost the point she still manages to get it back with extreme precision, usually very close to the corners. It always turns the rally around. Her cross-court duels are also :drool: worthy.