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View Full Version : Why does Venus(and often Serena) always have to prove herself?


AcesHigh
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:18 PM
Venus, throughout her career, seems to always have been doubted. So many people don't consider her a realistic threat or force on tour and in the past few years, there must have been dozens of "Venus should retire" threads.
Serena also faces this kind of constant criticism.. but in her case, commentators and tennis fans, the phrase often used for her is "Seren'a slways a threat", "You can never rule out Serena", "She's not playing well right now, but you never know with Serena".

I don't want to seem like I'm whining as a Venus/WS fan, b/c this is from an objective standpoint. Henin wasn't declared finished after her rough patch in 2004-2005 and Sharapova wasn't declared done after a horrendous 2007. People are saying the WS are finished DESPITE both having their best year at slams since 2003. :confused:

serenus_2k8
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:23 PM
The bottom line is they DO prove themselves, time and time again to the disgust of haters who wait for the next sign of potential vulnerability and pounce on them both.

I wouldnt worry bout it :wavey:

Il Primo!
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Because many want them to be finished. As simple as that. Hénin is the technicians's sweetheart, Maria's the media's sweetheart.

Expat
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:25 PM
maybe because they havent fulfilled their potential
and seem distracted most of the time

with a justine or a sharapova even when they are having a bad time u know that they are still focussed on the game
with the williams sisters especially serena you never know when she will withdraw to party

maria was doubted badly last year but no one said she was finished because she is just 20
but the bottomline is venus and serena dont seem that committed to tennis as justine or maria

missvarsha
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:29 PM
Well, the reason is that they always do things the unconventional way - and the reason some things are conventional is that they work for most people. What I mean is that for most players to be in form you have to play, and compete and be match fit. And this is not just a tennis thing. Imagine if a football player were out for 7 months with an injury and then suddenly came back and dominated every game - its not impossible, it's unlikely.

Now when Serena and Venus virtually fell off the map in 2006 (due to injuries, disinterest WHATEVER) it wasn't an unreasonable claim to say, "Well, in your late 20s I don't see this player bouncing back."
Now the fact is that they both came back with a grand slam win last year just shows what exceptional players they are, but it doesnt make the commentators any wrong. And this is not a bias thing - people have been just as taken aback at Fatvenport winning every T4 in sight (yes yes I know, I hate Davenport and can't make a post without slamming her ;)) after her pregnancy year off, and Navratilova climbing back into the doubles top 10 at age 60.

As for Henin - well back in 2004 no one knew that she would turn in a perpetually injured flower maiden, she hadn't had any serious history of injury and she was a lot younger than Venus Williams is now.

venus_rulez
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Because that's the way sports and the world works. You can lose one match in your last 85425802948542 matches, and you can bet that there will be articles about whether your domination is over or whether the a new challenger has stepped up, it really doesn't matter who you are.

However, there are some people who still resent that Venus and Serena have always done things their own way and continue to do things their own way and have reached heights in accomplishments and popularity that few people tennis players will ever know.

hingisGOAT
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Venus is a grass-court specialist. She rarely wins any other big tournaments all year long except Wimbledon... and this has been going on for like half a decade. Venus is very beatable at most tournaments. Serena, if she's fit, is not.

venus_rulez
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Venus is a grass-court specialist. She rarely wins any other big tournaments all year long except Wimbledon... and this has been going on for like half a decade. Venus is very beatable at most tournaments. Serena, if she's fit, is not.


You know people are desperate when suddenly "only" being able to win one specific slam is something to look down upon. There are lots of players, including someone you love dearly who'd be wishing they could win any slam, let alone be playing right now.

Peterk07
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Maybe because they're very unpredictable lately. You never know how they'll play next time. They may kick ass but they may play hopelessly too.

And Serena faces those kind of "criticism" because this is the fact. "She's not playing well right now, but you never know with Serena". I don't even see this as criticism, i rather see this as a complement. There were and there are very few women in tennis, who have earned that second part of the sentense. Most players would just get "She's not playing well right now. Period."

frontier
Feb 8th, 2008, 11:50 PM
There is the racism part and the fact that they are not sub-serviant to the tour.They treat tennis as a pastime bacause they can afford to most of the players have to run from country to country to feed their families.I think they live a charmed life were they can come to an GS. event with little preparation and win a cool mil in 2wks.They have done it all and have nothing to prove,they have all that every player dream of and some will never achieve or find that success.Some are still chasing the dream that the sisters realised and might never find it.They have nothing to prove they were the last players to dominate the tour and up to now no player has played in five successive slams.If I am Serena and Vee I would be proud of my resume because its outstanding.Haters eat your hearts out!

Chris 84
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:00 AM
Henin and Sharapova have always been perceived as people to whom tennis means almost everything. The WS are perceived as people who don't care as much about tennis. Clearly Venus and Serena don't much care about being ranked no1 or else they would play a lot more often. That also gives the impression that they don't much care about the sport and that they are "bored" with it. One would never associate this with Sharapova or Henin.

Of course this perception isn't necessarily accurate, but I think it goes a long way in showing why Serena and Venus have to "prove themselves".

daniela86
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:03 AM
Henin and Sharapova have always been perceived as people to whom tennis means almost everything. The WS are perceived as people who don't care as much about tennis. Clearly Venus and Serena don't much care about being ranked no1 or else they would play a lot more often. That also gives the impression that they don't much care about the sport and that they are "bored" with it. One would never associate this with Sharapova or Henin.

Of course this perception isn't necessarily accurate, but I think it goes a long way in showing why Serena and Venus have to "prove themselves".

I agree :p

Denise4925
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:21 AM
Henin and Sharapova have always been perceived as people to whom tennis means almost everything. The WS are perceived as people who don't care as much about tennis. Clearly Venus and Serena don't much care about being ranked no1 or else they would play a lot more often. That also gives the impression that they don't much care about the sport and that they are "bored" with it. One would never associate this with Sharapova or Henin.

Of course this perception isn't necessarily accurate, but I think it goes a long way in showing why Serena and Venus have to "prove themselves".

Good analysis.

goldenslam888
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:38 AM
don't think i've heard anyone say they can't win another slam. but as far as them being #1 or dominating, they definitely have to prove it.

kiwifan
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:48 AM
The honest answer to this is that they weren't the product of the USTA so the powers that be were down on them from the beginning.

They shank a forehand and you can just hear Tracy Austin say, "If they'd played Juniors that wouldn't happen."

Fast forward and now their problem is still similarly based, until they do things exactly the way the USTA wants them to conduct themselves the powers that be will always lean towards spinning their actions as a cautionary tale instead of an inspirational one.

This is magnified by the fact that the USTA and the powers that be have yet to produce an American Superstar since the Williams Sisters arrived on the scene so there is also a bit of embarrassment driving the undercurrent of resentment.

That's all. :)

Denise4925
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:54 AM
The honest answer to this is that they weren't the product of the USTA so the powers that be were down on them from the beginning.

They shank a forehand and you can just hear Tracy Austin say, "If they'd played Juniors that wouldn't happen."

Fast forward and now their problem is still similarly based, until they do things exactly the way the USTA wants them to conduct themselves the powers that be will always lean towards spinning their actions as a cautionary tale instead of an inspirational one.

This is magnified by the fact that the USTA and the powers that be have yet to produce an American Superstar since the Williams Sisters arrived on the scene so there is also a bit of embarrassment driving the undercurrent of resentment.

That's all. :)

:lol: Also true

Nicolás89
Feb 9th, 2008, 01:25 AM
Venus, throughout her career, seems to always have been doubted. So many people don't consider her a realistic threat or force on tour and in the past few years, there must have been dozens of "Venus should retire" threads.
Serena also faces this kind of constant criticism.. but in her case, commentators and tennis fans, the phrase often used for her is "Seren'a slways a threat", "You can never rule out Serena", "She's not playing well right now, but you never know with Serena".

I don't want to seem like I'm whining as a Venus/WS fan, b/c this is from an objective standpoint. Henin wasn't declared finished after her rough patch in 2004-2005 and Sharapova wasn't declared done after a horrendous 2007. People are saying the WS are finished DESPITE both having their best year at slams since 2003. :confused:

You are wrong. When any top player lose badly there are always threads like "random top player should retire". Also, last year many people said Sharapova wouldn't be a forced again and Henin still won a slam in 2004 and 2005.

AcesHigh
Feb 9th, 2008, 04:48 AM
You are wrong. When any top player lose badly there are always threads like "random top player should retire". Also, last year many people said Sharapova wouldn't be a forced again and Henin still won a slam in 2004 and 2005.

It's not just WTAworld, which shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm also talking about commentators, analysts, and the majority of fans, etc.

HippityHop
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:17 AM
Venus is a grass-court specialist. She rarely wins any other big tournaments all year long except Wimbledon... and this has been going on for like half a decade. Venus is very beatable at most tournaments. Serena, if she's fit, is not.

So now Wimbledon, the grandest slam of them all, is to be scoffed at because Venus is the best player on the surface. :lol:

I wonder if the same thing would be said if someone other than Venus or Serena were winning Wimbledon on the regular. Probably not. I wonder why.

HippityHop
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:18 AM
The honest answer to this is that they weren't the product of the USTA so the powers that be were down on them from the beginning.

They shank a forehand and you can just hear Tracy Austin say, "If they'd played Juniors that wouldn't happen."

Fast forward and now their problem is still similarly based, until they do things exactly the way the USTA wants them to conduct themselves the powers that be will always lean towards spinning their actions as a cautionary tale instead of an inspirational one.

This is magnified by the fact that the USTA and the powers that be have yet to produce an American Superstar since the Williams Sisters arrived on the scene so there is also a bit of embarrassment driving the undercurrent of resentment.

That's all. :)


You must spread some reputation around before giving to kiwifan again. :)

HippityHop
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:22 AM
Maybe because they're very unpredictable lately. You never know how they'll play next time. They may kick ass but they may play hopelessly too.

And Serena faces those kind of "criticism" because this is the fact. "She's not playing well right now, but you never know with Serena". I don't even see this as criticism, i rather see this as a complement. There were and there are very few women in tennis, who have earned that second part of the sentense. Most players would just get "She's not playing well right now. Period."


The second part is called "covering your ass" because so many people have been left looking like flat footed fools after Venus and Serena have been ruled out of slams and gone on to win them. :lol:

perseus2006
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:44 AM
Oh my God! It's so too terrible for Venus and Serena to always be expected play tournaments and win matches to gain respect. No other player is expected to do that. I mean the WTA just gives those ranking points to Justine and Pova and those Serbs, who aren't even trying to become Americans, just because they look cute in their tiny dresses even though everybody knows they are ugly, scheming, lying, cheating, nasty bitches with bad pimples and shit that just copy everything Venus and Serena do like use rackets when they play tennis, make victory speeches on the few occassions when they win, get involved with their clothes, make commercials and go to parties and stuff.

What is the BIG DEAL about PLAYING tournaments. Everyone knows that the real work is the extrodinary effort to sign up for them in the first place and then making up some excuses for withdrawing from them or quiting in the middle of them. I mean, Come ON!, anybody can actually play a tournament! And then some so called tennis fans bitch and moan endlessly about some random withdrawal or retirement without giving any credit to Venus and Serena, especially Serena, for the imaginative and scintillating withdrawal excuses! It simply isn't fair and is undoubtedly caused by the so called fans' deep character flaws like narrow mindedness, a challenged sense of humor, ignorance of the sport of tennis, lack of knowledge about Venus and Serena's past glories, lack of patriotism to the Stars and Stripes and that doesn't even count unrelenting racism, mysogeny and the fact of "not created here" resulting from Venus and Serena's unorthodox entry into the world of tennis and outright jealousy. leprosy and nincomgidgetry.

I just can't live with this any longer! It's high time that trophies are just given to Venus and Serena upon entering tournaments because everyone knows that they are the fittest, strongest, most athletic, most talented players using the most sophisticated strategies and executing the most brilliant tactics of any player anywhere in the world at any time in the existence of the universe and will continue to be through the reaches of eternity and that they have never lost to another player though they occassionally beat themselves.

It's just intolerable the way some jumped-up players, commentators and fans have the incredible gall to actually criticize Venus or Serena for their techniques on the court as if they knew something about it when neither Venus nor Serena were consulted or given a chance to enlighten them about how the game is supposed to be played because everyone knows that Venus and Serena are the begining and the end of proper tennis technique and have never struck a ball without demonstrating perfect form, style and technique some of which most of the players are simply too tennis-retarded to even hope to execute in practice much less during competition.

Enough of this whining and moaning. Venus and Serena will let you know when they will play, who they will play and by how large a margin they will win by so if you haven't heard it directly from Venus or Serena then you don't know squat and you can stop looking at entry lists and draws and results and shit your own selves and just wait to be informed and if you are not informed directly it's not the fault of Venus nor Serena but your own damned fault for being so insignificant as to not be worthy of being informed.

That should just about do it but if this so too terrible injustice of expectations placed on Venus and Serena continues there is a lot more that can be said and it will be said until you all crawl back into the cesspool out of which your DNA was cobbled together in the first place.

Tamus
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:45 AM
It's all in the mind really.

So Disrespectful
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:47 AM
When a player has been dominant for so long, of course questions will be asked when there is a visible decline.

Serenidad.
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:56 AM
don't think i've heard anyone say they can't win another slam. but as far as them being #1 or dominating, they definitely have to prove it.

I remember media from 2006 USO They said Venus would NEVER win another slam.

They said Serena had a longshot chance at winning one, but not more than one more.

AcesHigh
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:57 AM
Oh my God! It's so too terrible for Venus and Serena to always be expected play tournaments and win matches to gain respect. No other player is expected to do that. I mean the WTA just gives those ranking points to Justine and Pova and those Serbs, who aren't even trying to become Americans, just because they look cute in their tiny dresses even though everybody knows they are ugly, scheming, lying, cheating, nasty bitches with bad pimples and shit that just copy everything Venus and Serena do like use rackets when they play tennis, make victory speeches on the few occassions when they win, get involved with their clothes, make commercials and go to parties and stuff.

What is the BIG DEAL

:weirdo: The BIG DEAL is that this has only been applied to Venus and Serena. Only these two are written off so easily despite showing their capability to win slams. Especially Venus who is said not to care, despite making a commitment to playing as much as she can as far as injuries allow her.
I especially don't understand this about Venus who is finally (relatively) healthy for the first time in years, and who is having her best results since 2003.

goldenslam888
Feb 9th, 2008, 06:57 AM
:weirdo: The BIG DEAL is that this has only been applied to Venus and Serena. Only these two are written off so easily despite showing their capability to win slams. Especially Venus who is said not to care, despite making a commitment to playing as much as she can as far as injuries allow her.
I especially don't understand this about Venus who is finally (relatively) healthy for the first time in years, and who is having her best results since 2003.

i don't really agree with your premise. everytime serena loses here come pam, mary, and mary joe making excuses for serena, saying shes injured. cliff is always saying when serenas game is on, "theres none better." that may have been true in 2002 but not 2008.

serena and venus also set a high stanmdard for themselves with there early success, which they will always be compared too. thats just the way it is, with anyone. are you gonna say maria was really given a chance to win the AO? and wasn't written off. and they weren't saying there was never anything wrong with her shoulder. it was just serena in her head. yada yada yada.

hingis-seles
Feb 9th, 2008, 07:02 AM
I'm answering specific to Venus only. When she was winning her Slams in 2000-2001, everyone referred to her as the player of the year and the real world number one. By 2002, Serena took over, but it was pretty clear Venus would be around come final weekend.

What really hurt Venus were all those losses to Serena, making her the perpetual bridesmaid. Venus came back and won Wimbledon in 2005 and 2007 and was heaped praise for it, but you simply can not ignore the rest of her results for that time period. They were simply not up to the standard that she herself set when winning her Slams in 2000-2001.

We simply can not expect commentators and tennis critics to proclaim her the favourite for a title when her results don't warrant it. Heck, if that was the case, Monica Seles would've been a favourite for a lot of Slams in 1999-2002. Clearly, she was not considered a favourite. Her results did not warrant her that status.

Similarly with Venus, no one denies that she is a great player. She's achieved a lot. However, there is a difference between what you have done in the past and your current status and to expect commentators and critics to gush over how she's the one to beat at this point in time would be naive at best and delusional at worst.

Midnite Surfer
Feb 9th, 2008, 07:33 AM
I know. Isn't it funny that Nadal has only been able to win the French Open (albeit he's won it a buttload of times)but he is not called a clay court specialist? Winning Wimbledon and two US Opens along with a bunch of hardcourt periods of domination should put Venus in class by herself but for some reason she is still doubted. Also the fact that she got to the finals of 4 straight grand slams along with her sister should really make her beyond reproach but nope....she still gets less respect than she should. Weird.

Dodoboy.
Feb 9th, 2008, 09:29 AM
The honest answer to this is that they weren't the product of the USTA so the powers that be were down on them from the beginning.

They shank a forehand and you can just hear Tracy Austin say, "If they'd played Juniors that wouldn't happen."

Fast forward and now their problem is still similarly based, until they do things exactly the way the USTA wants them to conduct themselves the powers that be will always lean towards spinning their actions as a cautionary tale instead of an inspirational one.

This is magnified by the fact that the USTA and the powers that be have yet to produce an American Superstar since the Williams Sisters arrived on the scene so there is also a bit of embarrassment driving the undercurrent of resentment.

That's all. :)
:worship:

Dodoboy.
Feb 9th, 2008, 09:35 AM
I know. Isn't it funny that Nadal has only been able to win the French Open (albeit he's won it a buttload of times)but he is not called a clay court specialist? Winning Wimbledon and two US Opens along with a bunch of hardcourt periods of domination should put Venus in class by herself but for some reason she is still doubted. Also the fact that she got to the finals of 4 straight grand slams along with her sister should really make her beyond reproach but nope....she still gets less respect than she should. Weird.

Don't forget the numerous clay court titles!

terjw
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:20 AM
All players have to prove themselves. No player is exempt. You earn the #1 position by playing and winning now. Not on glory days in the past, plus the odd slam and the capability of beating everyone without actually consistently playing and doing it.

Roger Federer has been the most dominant player the last 5 years. He has to prove himself this year - especially after the AO. Otherwise he'll lose the #1 ranking. Simple as that.

Matt01
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Oh my God! It's so too terrible for Venus and Serena to always be expected play tournaments and win matches to gain respect. No other player is expected to do that. I mean the WTA just gives those ranking points to Justine and Pova and those Serbs, who aren't even trying to become Americans, just because they look cute in their tiny dresses even though everybody knows they are ugly, scheming, lying, cheating, nasty bitches with bad pimples and shit that just copy everything Venus and Serena do like use rackets when they play tennis, make victory speeches on the few occassions when they win, get involved with their clothes, make commercials and go to parties and stuff.



:rolls:


:weirdo: The BIG DEAL is that this has only been applied to Venus and Serena. Only these two are written off so easily despite showing their capability to win slams.


Crap. Other players are often easily written of as well. I don't know where you are living but it seems to be not on this planet...:p

sammy01
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:37 AM
because they say things like i feel im the #1, if i play my best tennis i'll win. so people aren't just gonna say ok, there gonna say go on then prove it.
basicaly serena especialy talks a very good and big game, people then expect that to be backed up on court, if they talked themselves down then there would be alot less expectation and things to prove.

Matt01
Feb 9th, 2008, 11:40 AM
because they say things like i feel im the #1, if i play my best tennis i'll win. so people aren't just gonna say ok, there gonna say go on then prove it.


That's a good point as well.

Renalicious
Feb 9th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Urgh, I'm sick of it too. I think because they're expecting them to FULLY dominate the game - win every match they play. But that's not possible, it's good enough they're still winning slams!

SV_Fan
Feb 9th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Simple, like Steffi and Monica they rose the bar and once Monica was stabbed, the bar was lowered once again, they finally got equal prize money and such at tournies bt got it taken away because the bar was so low. Venus and Serena took it to a whole new level, as a matter of fact they kicked it up a few notches, Venus and King are one of the only reasons Justine,Maria can take home those 1,000,000 dollar checks for winning the USOm or 920,000 for winning the aussie Open. But when they prove themselves they are still doubted, by the media. So it doesn't matter, I love them but you hae to be real people always talk about how to beat a williams (Carillo, Austin). But it never seems like they are satisfied with what they do its not enough. I mean Serena play all 4 slams and she actually had a full season isn't that good enough. She cracked the top ten for the 1st time in years nonthing is good enough for these people.

HippityHop
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:05 PM
We simply can not expect commentators and tennis critics to proclaim her the favourite for a title when her results don't warrant it.

I frankly couldn't care less about people not declaring Venus a favorite or even a long shot to win a title.

Just have the balls to come right out and say so without covering your ass with this "you can never count the Williams sisters out" crap.

venus_rulez
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:36 PM
I frankly couldn't care less about people not declaring Venus a favorite or even a long shot to win a title.

Just have the balls to come right out and say so without covering your ass with this "you can never count the Williams sisters out" crap.


Word! and plus Let's be real you know Venus doesn't give a damn about what they think about her, I feel the same about Serena (though it's true to a much lesser extent) and that bothers the commentators, media, and those who have ill will towards them even more.

cellophane
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Tell me... how many people called Justine a clay-court slam specialist even last year?

Midnite Surfer
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Roger Federer does not have to prove himself to anyone. But Venus is not in a league with Roger Federer. No one is. Venus does not say she feels like she is the number 1 player. She says she feels like she is not easy to beat on any day.

Pureracket
Feb 9th, 2008, 05:44 PM
Roger Federer does not have to prove himself to anyone. But Venus is not in a league with Roger Federer. No one is. Venus does not say she feels like she is the number 1 player. She says she feels like she is not easy to beat on any day.
Venus would kill Roger Federer.

sky20748
Feb 10th, 2008, 11:13 AM
it boils down to is that there are other up and coming players and the commentators are putting the pressure on venus and serena.yes they are getting older but so what.who says that at a certain age you have to retire from tennins.as long as your body and mind and spirit can handle it then so be it.it's truly a shame when someone who goes out and does play loses and then is judged for it.isn't it enough that the player judges themselves.tennis is a hard sport.who says that vee and ree are not committed.i think that they may understimate the opponent.but when you have commentators and such saying oh play to the forehand or giving steady advice on how to beat them then it is aggravating.but only vee and ree knows when it is time to give it up.we are just loyal fans.but we are not out there coaching them or playing for them.we are not out there running all around the court.we do not know how they are feeling on that day.we do not know what there mindset for that day is.they do not have to travel all around the world to play this tournament or that tournament because they have done that already.yes they need to adjust things in there game but who doesnt.henin is number one because no one actually took it to her to test her for fear but she was shown in ao that she is beatable.now i know she has gone back to the drawing board.being number 1 just puts a bigger bullseye on your back.i say play your game and whatever happens happens.but its a pity that all these girls that are supposedly much better than the sisters and ranked higher cant win a slam to save there on asses.how about that.so the sisters have nothing to prove.i think its the other players that has something to prove because at the end of the day its not about how many players beat the william sisters.no its about how many slams did they win in there career and i say the williams sisters are well ahead of the pact on that note.

Talula
Feb 10th, 2008, 01:50 PM
I don't want to add petrol to a fire but, I truly think there's something racial about it. I can't explain why, but I think it's a subconcious thing for many. Just as some people still hold a thought that black people can never be the best or give their all. or are surprised when a black person is for example a judge or a politician. I think some people still think that they can't be trusted is some ways to be really good at what they do.

Some people say that the sisters haven't fulfilled their potenial, but how many other players have won so many slams? Venus would have at least 4 more slams if it hadn't been for one person alone - Serena. There is still lots more to come for both - Venus is already on record as saying she has Wimbledon 2012 in her sights with the Olympics.

They have nothing more to prove really. But just as some people enjoyed writing Monica off saying she didn't get back to fitness, some people enjoy writing off the sisters. And I think that it's becacuse they are 'different'. And when people who are 'different' are successful it brings out all sorts of jealousies in some.

Talula
Feb 10th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Roger Federer does not have to prove himself to anyone. But Venus is not in a league with Roger Federer. No one is. Venus does not say she feels like she is the number 1 player. She says she feels like she is not easy to beat on any day.

But together the Williams sisters HAVE been in that league. Just as Roger wont maintain 3 slams a year forever, neither could the sisters. No one can. Sampras didn't and even Graf didn't (despite what happened in Hamburg). But the sisters can still keep making their mark in tennis for several years yet.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:09 PM
The honest answer to this is that they weren't the product of the USTA so the powers that be were down on them from the beginning.

They shank a forehand and you can just hear Tracy Austin say, "If they'd played Juniors that wouldn't happen."

Fast forward and now their problem is still similarly based, until they do things exactly the way the USTA wants them to conduct themselves the powers that be will always lean towards spinning their actions as a cautionary tale instead of an inspirational one.

This is magnified by the fact that the USTA and the powers that be have yet to produce an American Superstar since the Williams Sisters arrived on the scene so there is also a bit of embarrassment driving the undercurrent of resentment.

That's all. :)

Spot on!

Many here are too young or too anti-Williams to understand the deep seeded resentment and hatred the tennis establishment had for the Williams when they were beginning to emerge and their methodologies were being proved successful. That's why many of the talking heads/establishment folks would harp on the girls "lack of technique", citing it was their "athleticism" and not their "skills" that allowed them to succeed. The implication was that, "if only they had come up through the proper systems, they wouldn't have such problems. :lol:

Even after a combined 14 singles slams, that resentment still exists. Even after all the sisters success there are those that are jockeying for position to be the first to say, "see, I told you so. If only they had done it the proper way, they'd have been MORE successful and still playing."

Nicolás89
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:21 PM
So "lack of technique" was not a problem on Venus and Serenas early career?.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 10th, 2008, 08:33 PM
So "lack of technique" was not a problem on Venus and Serenas early career?.

No more than it was for any other young rising players. If you recall their forehands- especially Venus'- were constantly criticized for being the first to "break down". Now flash forward to today. If you look at many of the top girls- Justine, Maria included- what's the first shot off the ground to break down? ...The forehand. But with the sisters, for the tennis establishment- it was a "see I told you so" moment- a "Richard was wrong" moment.

My point being that it's not that technique didn't need improving. It's the CONCLUSIONS that were DRAWN/SPUN from the "supposed" poor technique, derived from a resentment toward the Williams' career path METHODS.

iWill
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:22 AM
Henin and Sharapova have always been perceived as people to whom tennis means almost everything. The WS are perceived as people who don't care as much about tennis. Clearly Venus and Serena don't much care about being ranked no1 or else they would play a lot more often. That also gives the impression that they don't much care about the sport and that they are "bored" with it. One would never associate this with Sharapova or Henin.

Of course this perception isn't necessarily accurate, but I think it goes a long way in showing why Serena and Venus have to "prove themselves".

I think the main reason they "care" so much is because they have alot more to achieve overall. Justine a little less than Maria. But Vee and Serena have combined for every possible big win in tennis so they really have no reason to keep playing. Thats why I don't care when they withdraw from tourneys because we should be happy they are still gracing us with their presence because if I were them tennis would be a distant memory.

Denise4925
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:38 AM
No more than it was for any other young rising players. If you recall their forehands- especially Venus'- were constantly criticized for being the first to "break down". Now flash forward to today. If you look at many of the top girls- Justine, Maria included- what's the first shot off the ground to break down? ...The forehand. But with the sisters, for the tennis establishment- it was a "see I told you so" moment- a "Richard was wrong" moment.

My point being that it's not that technique didn't need improving. It's the CONCLUSIONS that were DRAWN/SPUN from the "supposed" poor technique, derived from a resentment toward the Williams' career path METHODS.

:worship::worship::worship::worship:

darrinbaker00
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:46 AM
Every time a tennis player steps onto the court, he or she is trying to prove that they're better than the person on the other side of the net. The sooner some of you here realize that, the better off you'll be.

AcesHigh
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:50 AM
Every time a tennis player steps onto the court, he or she is trying to prove that they're better than the person on the other side of the net. The sooner some of you here realize that, the better off you'll be.

What does this have to do with people constantly declaring them finished and understimating them? :confused:

I think some people read the title without reading the first post.

darrinbaker00
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:52 AM
What does this have to do with people constantly declaring them finished and understimating them? :confused:

I think some people read the title without reading the first post.
What difference does it make what other people think and/or say about them?

sweetpeas
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:58 AM
Every time a tennis player steps onto the court, he or she is trying to prove that they're better than the person on the other side of the net. The sooner some of you here realize that, the better off you'll be.


RIGHT ON.

SAEKeithSerena
Feb 11th, 2008, 07:22 PM
because they're clearly one of the most inconsistent out of the "top" players, especially with their talent.