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View Full Version : I think it's time that Justine had a talking to with...


Wannabeknowitall
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:23 AM
Carlos Rodriguez.
This is getting a bit ridiculous now.
In 2006, he underestimated Maria's game assuming that she would be an easier player to beat than Lindsay Davenport at the Australian Open.
It became one of the factors as to why Justine didn't have enough to even finish the final with Mauresmo.
Now he does it again with his idea of keeping the ball to the middle of the court and not going for angles.
If opening up the court has gotten Justine to 32 match wins, why would you all of a sudden ask her to change her gameplan.
I really just don't get it.
By the time she decides to go with her previous gameplan, she's fucked.

Discuss.

faboozadoo15
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:27 AM
I agree. This kind of gameplan has worked wonders against Serena, though.
For Sharapova, you've gotta get her on the run, which is something that's becoming more and more difficult and less and less fruitfull given Sharapova's improved mobility.

tennisbear7
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:27 AM
I agree. What the hell was she doing trying to hit the ball with Maria from the baseline?

eck
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:29 AM
This is USOpen 2006 all over again.

Justine was playing extremely passive tennis.
And the time when Justine was winning on Maria's serve was when she was being super aggressive, not just playing ping pong.

cecilija
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:31 AM
It is just her being clueless, not Carlos.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:31 AM
This is a role reversal... instead of Justine coming to the net, it was Sharapova doing so.

Oh well, Maria did that perfectly... credit to her :yeah:

mboyle
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:32 AM
This is USOpen 2006 all over again.

Justine was playing extremely passive tennis.
And the time when Justine was winning on Maria's serve was when she was being super aggressive, not just playing ping pong.

Way different from US Open. Maria just bageled Justine. Everything people pick on with Maria went away. She moved beautifully. She volleyed beautifully. She hit drop shots and slices and short angles and lobs. She was unbelievable. Even when Justine was playing well for the last half of the first set, Maria found a way to win.

Josh.
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:33 AM
justine needs to improve her serve, more spin and definatly a higher 1st serve percentage.

HeninFan_2008
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:34 AM
Face it - Shrap is the new Queen of the WTA. I concede defeat.

eck
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:41 AM
Way different from US Open. Maria just bageled Justine. Everything people pick on with Maria went away. She moved beautifully. She volleyed beautifully. She hit drop shots and slices and short angles and lobs. She was unbelievable. Even when Justine was playing well for the last half of the first set, Maria found a way to win.

The only time Maria moved was when Justine made her move. Other than that, which is 80% of the other time, she was just standing in the middle.

Apoleb
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:46 AM
"overpowered" my ass. She was "overpowered" because she didn't have enough bite on her groundstrokes and she was putting the ball right in the middle. Justine just wasn't on form.

The only thing that is really surprising is the score. But seeing her form in Sydney and in the first week, it isn't really surprising that she's going to lose against a consistent hard hitter.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:48 AM
Justine was playing poorly all tournament-she was lucky to get a good draw but at the same time going from Hsieh to Sharapova isnt exactly easy
Henin wasnt playing well enough to execute any gameplan-she should have just retired saying she felt sick or something :p

spiritedenergy
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:52 AM
Henin played CRAP. Putting the ball in the middle and was also tentative at the net. Sharapova was helpless at volleying, whoever said she volleyed well must be blind.

tenn_ace
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:54 AM
How would we know whether it was actually Carlos's plan?

eck
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:55 AM
Justine was playing poorly all tournament-she was lucky to get a good draw but at the same time going from Hsieh to Sharapova isnt exactly easy
Henin wasnt playing well enough to execute any gameplan-she should have just retired saying she felt sick or something :p

Wow for once I won't disagree. =)

hectopascal
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:57 AM
I'm watching the match right now (1h delay due to bloody daylight savings) and Justine is just hitting the ball towards the middle of the court. Also, I checked the winner-UE ratio and Justine is 11/21 which is awful! It seems like Justine can't think for herself on the court :mad:

faboozadoo15
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:00 AM
Carlos also gets on my nerves because he's such a Sally. He rolls his eyes when Justine makes a mistake or when opponents hit winners. It's just smarmy.

SharapovaFan16
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:01 AM
Did anyone notice what happened when Justine tried to move Maria side to side? Absolutely nothing because Maria still came up with the goods on thos long points. Sharapova just flat out outplayed her, end of story. Tried to mix it up with the slice and dice and it worked for a few minutes, but Maria adjusted and just kept taking it to Henin.

By the way for idiot who said Maria can't volley. 14 of 17 net approaches won? Some of you guys need to watch tennis a little more, you obviously don't understand the game.

Wannabeknowitall
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:01 AM
How would we know whether it was actually Carlos's plan?

Because that's what he told Mary Joe Fernandez? :shrug:

Hingiswinsthis
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:03 AM
I highly disagree with the ESPN commentators. Though Sharapova came out with a "Bazooka" game that didn't allow Justine to step in at all, Justine her self is not the same player as the latter part of 2007. Just watch the US Open and you'll see how free swinging Henin was and blunting the power of the Big Babes.
There's always 50/50 to every result and last year even though Sharapova got bludgeoned her self by Serena, I too felt Sharapova was NOT her self with the serving problems last year and that, along with Serena's game aided Williams's in defeating her soundly. Similar circumstances this year with Justine not playing her game because of some misguided tactics + Sharapova playing out of her mind like never before. It happens.

jujufreak
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:09 AM
Way different from US Open. Maria just bageled Justine. Everything people pick on with Maria went away. She moved beautifully. She volleyed beautifully. She hit drop shots and slices and short angles and lobs. She was unbelievable. Even when Justine was playing well for the last half of the first set, Maria found a way to win.

that's right, whatever Justine tried today, it didn't work. Maria was too good today and Justine wasn't. Congratulations to Maria for continuously trying to improve. It's an attitude I appreciate a lot.

Apoleb
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:16 AM
I highly disagree with the ESPN commentators. Though Sharapova came out with a "Bazooka" game that didn't allow Justine to step in at all, Justine her self is not the same player as the latter part of 2007. Just watch the US Open and you'll see how free swinging Henin was and blunting the power of the Big Babes.
There's always 50/50 to every result and last year even though Sharapova got bludgeoned her self by Serena, I too felt Sharapova was NOT her self with the serving problems last year and that, along with Serena's game aided Williams's in defeating her soundly. Similar circumstances this year with Justine not playing her game because of some misguided tactics + Sharapova playing out of her mind like never before. It happens.

Agreed. Even though she was fast, I thought she was a bit heavy on her footwork. And she wasn't able to generate the pace and depth on her groundstrokes she generated in the US Open or even in the Madrid final. In Madrid, she was in control of most of the rallys. But again, this isn't surprising. She has been playing this way since Sydney. She might get away with it against trolls like Ana or Kuz because of her fighting abilities, but not against someone the caliber of Maria.

I'm not sure if playing in the middle was a tactic, but if it was, it's downright dumb. There were many instants in the first set where she was in a very good position in the rallys, but kept hitting down the middle instead of moving Maria, which gave Maria the chance to move her around.

Dawn Marie
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:16 AM
Justine will be fine. All players get a beat down. She'll adjust. I'm no Henin fan but I don't think she's in trouble at all. She just won a title and made the quarterfinals.
If anyone can comeback and win 5-9 titles this year it is Justine.

saniapower
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:22 AM
:scratch:

Mileen
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:23 AM
The only time Maria moved was when Justine made her move. Other than that, which is 80% of the other time, she was just standing in the middle.

"overpowered" my ass. She was "overpowered" because she didn't have enough bite on her groundstrokes and she was putting the ball right in the middle.



Indeed, I absolutely agree. Justine's tactic of playing through the center was simply :help: :help:. It annoyed me SO much. The more, since as soon as she spread the balls, she won the points (at the end of the first set). But right after that, still in the first set, she played central again. At that moment my hopes were gone. I really don't get it at all why she didn't keep spreading her shots, certainly not when it just showed she won some points as soon as she did. Usually she is a conscious player, changing tactics some short time after they fail. Why the hell did she so stubbornly hold on to this ridiculous tactic? I am so annoyed she didn't play her own game, all those stupid balls through the center :help: :help: With Chinese players she may have a point, but Sharapova hit angles anyway, and it's obvious to anyone you should get her to move, she isn't that good in hitting running shots. But Ju handed her the balls on a silver platter :help:, that probably will turn out to be gold at the end of this AO. And indeed, like someone else said above, I was also thinking during the match: why the hell change the way you play when it caused you to win so many matches? Why the hell didn't she just play her own game? (No, I'm not talking about "she didn't get the chance to play her own game": the balls through the center caused her to be so called "overpowered".)

My mood about Ju :fiery: :sad: :rolleyes: :eek: (disbelieve about her tactics)

Anyway, thanks for the vcash, Sharapova! (yes, exactly what I expected has happened, even the way it happened :sad:, exactly, exactly what I expected and feared for :rolleyes:).

In one word: :help:

Mileen
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:41 AM
Carlos also gets on my nerves because he's such a Sally. He rolls his eyes when Justine makes a mistake or when opponents hit winners. It's just smarmy.

Yes, instead of :rolleyes:-ing Justine, he should :rolleyes: himself for his ridiculous tactic. When 2players (on both sides of the net) are busy with the game of 1 player, and nobody, cq. zero players are thinking about the other player, guess who'll win, Carlos (and Ju for that matter)?

hablo
Jan 22nd, 2008, 10:49 AM
this isn't surprising. She has been playing this way since Sydney. She might get away with it against trolls like Ana or Kuz because of her fighting abilities, but not against someone the caliber of Maria.Your post just lost any credibility with these words.

Dawn Marie
Jan 22nd, 2008, 11:24 AM
In all honestly. Justine reminded me of Hingis playing the Williams Sisters. Hingis's problem was she stopped playing her game and starting hitting with the big babes. Henin clearly was doing this against Maria tonight.
She and Carlos need a long talk. LOL

jujufreak
Jan 22nd, 2008, 11:25 AM
Yes, instead of :rolleyes:-ing Justine, he should :rolleyes: himself for his ridiculous tactic. When 2players (on both sides of the net) are busy with the game of 1 player, and nobody, cq. zero players are thinking about the other player, guess who'll win, Carlos (and Ju for that matter)?

it's stupid to criticize Carlos, it's Justine who's on the court

justine schnyder
Jan 22nd, 2008, 12:11 PM
I agree.
Passive tennis is not the way to beat Sharapova since she's an agressive player, if she's on bad day so maybe than putting 2 more balls in court will give the opponent the point.
But Carlos should have known Maria was in extremly good shape this time and hitting balls down the middle wouldn't do any good to Justine while attack, would.
And anyway, Justine usually attacks and likes the net, so why to become passive?!

justine schnyder
Jan 22nd, 2008, 12:19 PM
My mood about Ju :fiery: :sad: :rolleyes: :eek: (disbelieve about her tactics)

Anyway, thanks for the vcash, Sharapova! (yes, exactly what I expected has happened, even the way it happened :sad:, exactly, exactly what I expected and feared for :rolleyes:).



Exactly what I'm thinking, and I had a feeling she would lose too :sad:

Tennisaddict
Jan 22nd, 2008, 12:23 PM
In all fairness, Justine also could have lost against Ana and Sveta in Sydney.
It's not like this wasn't in the cards. The others weren't mentally tough enough.
That's one thing you can never blame Maria of, she is always mentally ready to beat another tough player and shows no mercy.

Marshmallow
Jan 22nd, 2008, 01:00 PM
Why didn't she change a losing game plan? Experienced world number one too.

eck
Jan 22nd, 2008, 01:01 PM
Why didn't she change a losing game plan? Experienced world number one too.

She did.
And then she went back to plan A again.

jujufreak
Jan 22nd, 2008, 01:05 PM
She did.
And then she went back to plan A again.

she hit to the corners, Masha played even sharper angles, she went to the net, but didn't get the balls over the net, she wasn't playing well enough today, Maria was just better, no matter what Justine tried.

sfselesfan
Jan 22nd, 2008, 01:10 PM
Hitting the ball to the middle of the court against an in-form slow mover/hard hitter like Masha. Dumbest strategy ever? Like saying "here Maria, don't bother running to the ball, I'll hit it into your strikezone for you." STUPID.

I understand that strategy was effective against Venus and Serena circa 1999-2004, but they hit better on the move. Sharapova is closer to Davenport. You try not to let her set up for her shots or you're toast.

SF

Dave.
Jan 22nd, 2008, 01:11 PM
Sharapova was too good today I don't think the game plan was much of an issue. Anyway, Henin still has a 6-3 record over Sharapova, there isn't much of a problem there. Plus she really does not like plexicushion.

Apoleb
Jan 22nd, 2008, 01:16 PM
Your post just lost any credibility with these words.

Oh really?

This is what I said two weeks ago:


Well, what can I say? Justine proved again what an immense champion she is. She was mostly crap but still managed to win. And I'm not talking about the serve, but how tentative and not aggressive she was for a very large part of the match. She still manages to come up with brillant game when she needs it even if she's playing crap.

Tennis-wise however, I'm not impressed at all. She might get away with those wins against Kuz and Ana, but not against a Williams playing well or even a Sharapova.


It wasn't the top spin that was bothering her today. For most of the third set, there was very little on Kuz's first AND second serve, and she was still getting them back in play without much on them (untill she started to turn the match). Her problem against both is that she was very passive for a big part of the match. Just like she was against Bartoli in Wimbledon. Those are never good indices, and if she plays anything like that against an aggressive opponent who's largely on (like Bartoli), she'll be in trouble. When Justine is not aggressive, she's crap.
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=12279944#post12279944

Ofcourse I was right on. :cool:

thrust
Jan 22nd, 2008, 02:46 PM
Maria played her very best, moving and using variety similar to the WTA final. Justine did not play her best because she was overpowered with Maria^s groundstrokes and accurate serving. Justine needs to improve her first serve% soon, 48% is not going to beat the likes of Maria and the Williams sisters. Next time in Australia forget Sydney, unless there is a week off before the AO. It should be very obvious by now that Justine cannot play a tier 2 tournament the week before a Slam.

thrust
Jan 22nd, 2008, 02:49 PM
she hit to the corners, Masha played even sharper angles, she went to the net, but didn't get the balls over the net, she wasn't playing well enough today, Maria was just better, no matter what Justine tried.

Exactly!

hablo
Jan 22nd, 2008, 06:43 PM
Oh really?

This is what I said two weeks ago:




http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=12279944#post12279944

Ofcourse I was right on. :cool:

Go back and see what I highlighted in your post! :rolleyes:
The fact that you call those two players trolls.

treufreund
Jan 22nd, 2008, 06:50 PM
Oh my gosh folks the match is fast and she tried to "figure it out" but again you cannot figure out how to play against someone walloping the ball so deep and returning and serving too well especially when you don't have a very long reach. Justine was just facing someone with big guns today that were firing away. It's all good for Maria and Justine will need to work on some stuff. GOOD LUCK MASZA (although JELENA is my favorite left over, but I think Maria is too strong)

Brooks.
Jan 22nd, 2008, 06:53 PM
Carlos also gets on my nerves because he's such a Sally. He rolls his eyes when Justine makes a mistake or when opponents hit winners. It's just smarmy.

um, Yuri Sharapov anyone? :tape::help:

Harju.
Jan 22nd, 2008, 06:56 PM
In other words, Justine beat herself!!!111!!

DA FOREHAND
Jan 22nd, 2008, 07:07 PM
Justine was playing poorly all tournament-she was lucky to get a good draw but at the same time going from Hsieh to Sharapova isnt exactly easy
Henin wasnt playing well enough to execute any gameplan-she should have just retired saying she felt sick or something :p

LOL she's used that excuse aleady:tape: She knew the oh no i'm cramping/hurt my ankle would not work against Ice Ice Pova, who when Tati, rolled her ankle turned her back and was taking practice swings. I'm glad she took her beating like a man.:bounce:

dya74
Jan 22nd, 2008, 07:10 PM
Carlos Rodriguez.

Now he does it again with his idea of keeping the ball to the middle of the court and not going for angles.

Discuss.


you mean this was a gameplan:confused:? it seemed to me more like she wasn't able to look for the angles. the few forehands she tried to place went directly out.

John.
Jan 22nd, 2008, 07:11 PM
Justine has looked poor all fortnight - I didn't expect her to lose so easily or to Sharapova, but I didn't expect her to win the tournament either.

Kudos to Masha, she played well and didn't let Justine into the match

Tennisstar86
Jan 22nd, 2008, 07:14 PM
I didnt watch the match, but any of you guys think maybe Justine didnt "figure" sharapova out, because she didnt get constant point by point coaching from her box like shes use to, because of the warning Jankovic recieved a couple days ago?:tape:

And kept hitting the ball in the center of the court....

Serena did the same thing though. She'd have an easy put away and would practically hit it right back at Jelena....

rollup
Jan 22nd, 2008, 08:12 PM
Carlos also gets on my nerves because he's such a Sally. He rolls his eyes when Justine makes a mistake or when opponents hit winners. It's just smarmy.

Did you see what Yuri did at the end of the match? :o

rollup
Jan 22nd, 2008, 08:23 PM
Why didn't she change a losing game plan? Experienced world number one too.

I don't know, perhaps you should ask one of your faves Amelie, she was no.1 once but lost a hell of a lot more times than Justine has and Justine has been #1 much longer. Amelie has also been on the tour longer, so she'll know more. :D

Tennisstar86
Jan 22nd, 2008, 08:27 PM
I don't know, perhaps you should ask one of your faves Amelie, she was no.1 once but lost a hell of a lot more times than Justine has and Justine has been there much longer and has been on the tour longer. :D

Actually... Amelie has been on tour much longer..... and challenged fro slams a long time her problems, was the same as it is now... Mental case....

sfselesfan
Jan 22nd, 2008, 08:28 PM
you mean this was a gameplan:confused:? it seemed to me more like she wasn't able to look for the angles. the few forehands she tried to place went directly out.

According to MJ Fernandez, she spoke with Carlos Rodriguez before the match and he told Justine to hit to the middle of the court in an effort to jam Maria and make her hit errors.

Dumbass.

SF

rollup
Jan 22nd, 2008, 08:30 PM
Actually... Amelie has been on tour much longer..... and challenged fro slams a long time her problems, was the same as it is now... Mental case....

I realised I made an error and changed it :D

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 22nd, 2008, 08:31 PM
Carlos Rodriguez.
This is getting a bit ridiculous now.
In 2006, he underestimated Maria's game assuming that she would be an easier player to beat than Lindsay Davenport at the Australian Open.
It became one of the factors as to why Justine didn't have enough to even finish the final with Mauresmo.
Now he does it again with his idea of keeping the ball to the middle of the court and not going for angles.
If opening up the court has gotten Justine to 32 match wins, why would you all of a sudden ask her to change her gameplan.
I really just don't get it.
By the time she decides to go with her previous gameplan, she's fucked.

Discuss.

Not only that...but if yall noticed, all the challenges he told Justine to make WERE ALL WRONG. She was a lil pissed off and frustrated with him because of it too. I guess thats what happens when you side coach when you are not suppose to. tsk tsk tsk ;)