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View Full Version : If Sharpaova is going to dominate, isn't it about time?


Volcana
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:38 PM
These things vary from generation to generation. Obviously, Sharapova isn't going to follow the same model of GS wins as Venus (4 of 6) or Davenport (3 of 6) or Hingis (4 of 5), all of whom, when they started winning slams, won several slams in a short period of time.

She's a bit off the Serena plan too. Win one. Nothing foe a couple years. Win a bunch.

ASV had this kind of staggered-ness to her slam wins, but she had her year where she won two. I wonder if Sharapova will fool around and let three out of Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Peer, Peng, Mirza, Bartoli and Safarova find slam winning form before she wins another couple more. She could have the misfortune of being one of the best players of two different eras, without ever being the dominant player on tour.

Still, once you've won the second GS singles title, you totally know you can win, it's not some kind of fluke.
She's got that over the non-slam winners.

Demska
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Justine is dominating at the age of 25.

Maria is 20.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:45 PM
Justine is dominating at the age of 25.

Maria is 20.
Justine started her first period of domination in 2003 at the age of 21.

Serenidad.
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:45 PM
If she is going to do something she needs to prove it. What I feel though is even before all of the 2006 when she won Wimbledon EVERYONE was blowing smoke up her ass making her to be the total owner of WTA Tour.

She is trying to add to her game? She does a few dropshots per match, tries a bit of the slice, and hits conventional volleys from time to time.

Before 2006 : Mauresmo, Henin, and Clijsters had her number. In 2006, she proved at least that she could beat them from time to time. Still, Mauresmo Henin and Clijsters have a winning head to head advantage. Add that to the fact that the Williams Sisters have seemingly figured her out AND Jankovic and Ivanovic had some wins over her this year and it doesn't look pretty.

She needs to do something soon because now that Ivanovic has gotten to a slam final and proven she's at least capable of being in the mix, Serena/Venus are seemingly healthy, and Henin will always be a factor. Her dominating, if any, will have to be post retirement of The Big 3.

Sometimes she reminds me of a bully. She can pick on the Hantuchova and the Schnyder, but when it is time to pick on someone her own size she doesn't always take the challenge.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:47 PM
She has plenty of time. Justine only won 1 major each year in 2004, 2005 and 2006.
Maria doesn't have to win 2 a year at age 20 or 21.

Nicolás89
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:48 PM
why you always ask questions that you already know the answer?

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:48 PM
Justine is dominating at the age of 25.

Maria is 20.

Justine, like Federer, has the game that takes time to blossom and mature and when it does fully, it's of the highest quality.

Sharapova has a game that has already matured in a sense. Not much that can really get better. She can add to her game, but there's not much more she can do to really retool it.

Same with Venus and Serena. Both have made changes, but nothing major.

Justine on the other hand, has a versatile game that takes longer to develop, but when it does, she can do almost anything and adapt her game to surface, opponent, or age.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:52 PM
If she is going to do something she needs to prove it. What I feel though is even before all of the 2006 when she won Wimbledon EVERYONE was blowing smoke up her ass making her to be the total owner of WTA Tour.

She is trying to add to her game? She does a few dropshots per match, tries a bit of the slice, and hits conventional volleys from time to time.

Before 2006 : Mauresmo, Henin, and Clijsters had her number. In 2006, she proved at least that she could beat them from time to time. Still, Mauresmo Henin and Clijsters have a winning head to head advantage. Add that to the fact that the Williams Sisters have seemingly figured her out AND Jankovic and Ivanovic had some wins over her this year and it doesn't look pretty.

She needs to do something soon because now that Ivanovic has gotten to a slam final and proven she's at least capable of being in the mix, Serena/Venus are seemingly healthy, and Henin will always be a factor. Her dominating, if any, will have to be post retirement of The Big 3.

Sometimes she reminds me of a bully. She can pick on the Hantuchova and the Schnyder, but when it is time to pick on someone her own size she doesn't always take the challenge.
Nice analysis.

In my opinion her game was too one dimensional. For some it took some time but they found a way to beat her. It's good to see that she and her entourage know they have to add to her game. For me it's still too soon how this will turn out.

Woodsworth
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:52 PM
The WTA suggests that players will experience their peak at the age of 24.

Demska
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Justine started her first period of domination in 2003 at the age of 21.

But not the the level she is now.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:54 PM
The WTA suggests that players will experience their peak at the age of 24. Maria is still waiting to peak.
In the case of Masha I saw little of no growth in her game between her two slam wins. It's only last year she started to add to her game. We'll have to wait and see.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:56 PM
But not the the level she is now.
True.

Still it was a period of domination till she fell ill in 2004.

Lucemferre
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:56 PM
If Serena and Justine get injured, she can. That's what Justine did in 2003-2004.

Nicolás89
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:57 PM
In the case of Masha I saw little of no growth in her game between her two slam wins. It's only last year she started to add to her game. We'll have to wait and see.

between 2004 and 2006 she added a lot of more fittnes and she was covering the court a lot more faster I'd say. big changes for a tennis player IMO.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:59 PM
Justine, like Federer, has the game that takes time to blossom and mature and when it does fully, it's of the highest quality.

Sharapova has a game that has already matured in a sense. Not much that can really get better. She can add to her game, but there's not much more she can do to really retool it.

Same with Venus and Serena. Both have made changes, but nothing major.

Justine on the other hand, has a versatile game that takes longer to develop, but when it does, she can do almost anything and adapt her game to surface, opponent, or age.
Good analysis.

I believe there is still time for Masha to improve significantly.

Nicolás89
Jan 4th, 2008, 05:59 PM
If Serena and Justine get injured, she can. That's what Justine did in 2003-2004.

what? be injured? :confused:

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:03 PM
The way Sharapova rolled over Sveta, Ana and Anna at the YEC, her dominating the whole tour in 3 or 4 years doesn't look wild.
Now there are 3 older players who are pretty good. In a few years, it could easily be Sharapova's tour.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:04 PM
what? be injured? :confused:
No, it's one of those who believe Justine only dominated because Venus and Serena were injured.

Helaena
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:06 PM
what? be injured? :confused:

2003 im not sure
2004 she was ill
2005 she was injured

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:06 PM
The way Sharapova rolled over Sveta, Ana and Anna at the YEC, her dominating the whole tour in 3 or 4 years doesn't look wild.
Now there are 3 older players who are pretty good. In a few years, it could easily be Sharapova's tour.
Like I said. We'll have to wait and see.

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Like I said. We'll have to wait and see.

exactly, nobody knows if henin will continue 08 like 07 ;)

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:16 PM
exactly, nobody knows if henin will continue 08 like 07 ;)
True. :cool:

Volcana
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:20 PM
Justine started her first period of domination in 2003 at the age of 21.Age isn't the issue. Navratilova didn't start winning slams til age 23. But usually, when multi-slam winners start winning slams, they win them in bunches. That was a point I tried to make in the intial post.

When Venus finally won her first slam, she didn't win just one, she won four out of the next six.
When Hingis won her first slam, she won four out of the next five.
Davenport won three out of the next six
Henin, three out of the next four
Seles, eight of twelve
Graf, nine of twelve

Still, Sharpie fans take heart. The player who Sharpaova's start most resembles is Navratilova

1978 - Wimbledon
1979 - Wimbledon
1980
1981 - Australian Open

Three GS singles titles in four years. Nice, but hardly earth-shattering. Then, in 1982, the floodgates opened. She won at least two slams a year for the next six years.

sammy01
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:23 PM
between 2004 and 2006 she added a lot of more fittnes and she was covering the court a lot more faster I'd say. big changes for a tennis player IMO.

i actualy think thats bull this 'sharapova has improved her movement'. watch the 2004 wimbledon she moved way faster than she does now, she also changed direction faster, it might be because shes grown shes slower but she isn't as fast as 2004. she is still a clumsy mover and will win slams only when the 4/5 players better than her are injured or are off form. at the end of the day other players with better movement will usualy prevail the longer a match goes on, if shes to beat henin, serena, jankovic ect she needs to do it in straight sets, as they can just get that extra ball back in the end that makes all the difference.

Lucemferre
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:24 PM
No, it's one of those who believe Justine only dominated because Venus and Serena were injured.

It is true. After 2003 Wimbledon to 2004 Indian Wells Justine was the dominant player and everybody knows she benefited from Serena's absence and Venus' injury. You can't deny that. Imagine Serena and Justine injured or not playing for some reason, Maria would be the biggest favorite for every slam with Venus except for the French open.

Lucemferre
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:27 PM
i actualy think thats bull this 'sharapova has improved her movement'. watch the 2004 wimbledon she moved way faster than she does now, she also changed direction faster, it might be because shes grown shes slower but she isn't as fast as 2004. she is still a clumsy mover and will win slams only when the 4/5 players better than her are injured or are off form. at the end of the day other players with better movement will usualy prevail the longer a match goes on, if shes to beat henin, serena, jankovic ect she needs to do it in straight sets, as they can just get that extra ball back in the end that makes all the difference.

So Davenport, Williams, Mauresmo and Henin were all 'off form' when Maria beat them to win her slams? :rolleyes: And this is very credible coming from a big Chakvetadze fan :tape:

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:32 PM
i actualy think thats bull this 'sharapova has improved her movement'. watch the 2004 wimbledon she moved way faster than she does now, she also changed direction faster, it might be because shes grown shes slower but she isn't as fast as 2004. she is still a clumsy mover and will win slams only when the 4/5 players better than her are injured or are off form. at the end of the day other players with better movement will usualy prevail the longer a match goes on, if shes to beat henin, serena, jankovic ect she needs to do it in straight sets, as they can just get that extra ball back in the end that makes all the difference.

beating mauresmo 6-0 4-6 6-0 counts as a 2 setter?
sveta is also a GREAT mover and maria lost the first set, but then won the 2nd and 3rd.

btw in some way maria's defensive shots got better in 2006. If u had followed her match vs. mauresmo she hit some unbelievable shots from somewhere out of the doubles field. it wasnt only this match where she showed some excellent defensive shots.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:32 PM
It is true. After 2003 Wimbledon to 2004 Indian Wells Justine was the dominant player and everybody knows she benefited from Serena's absence and Venus' injury. You can't deny that. Imagine Serena and Justine injured or not playing for some reason, Maria would be the biggest favorite for every slam with Venus except for the French open.
I don't deny it.
So Davenport, Williams, Mauresmo and Henin were all 'off form' when Maria beat them to win her slams? :rolleyes: And this is very credible coming from a big Chakvetadze fan :tape:
In case of the US Open 2006 final Justine was hampered by a shoulder injury.

sammy01
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:34 PM
So Davenport, Williams, Mauresmo and Henin were all 'off form' when Maria beat them to win her slams? :rolleyes: And this is very credible coming from a big Chakvetadze fan :tape:

yeah henin was, she should have lost to jankovic but it was jj first time in a huge match, davenport was in the same situation as maria movement wise but sharapovas youth won through (and prehaps davenport had stop believing she was gonna win another slam), serena was a shadow of the 2002/2003 version in 04. as for mauresmo yep sharapova beat her.

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:36 PM
I don't deny it.

In case of the US Open 2006 final Justine was hampered by a shoulder injury.

henin still wouldnt have had any chances vs. maria on that day. masha was just too solid and too consistent.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:39 PM
henin still wouldnt have had any chances vs. maria on that day. masha was just too solid and too consistent.
You don't know. It doesn't matter anyhow because the match is played and Masha won.

Lucemferre
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:40 PM
yeah henin was, she should have lost to jankovic but it was jj first time in a huge match, davenport was in the same situation as maria movement wise but sharapovas youth won through (and prehaps davenport had stop believing she was gonna win another slam), serena was a shadow of the 2002/2003 version in 04. as for mauresmo yep sharapova beat her.

Then why can't others do the same and beat those injured, off form players? Believe me I can find all sorts of excuses for any kind of loss. Maria beat them and deserved her titles. End of story.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:40 PM
yeah henin was, she should have lost to jankovic but it was jj first time in a huge match, davenport was in the same situation as maria movement wise but sharapovas youth won through (and prehaps davenport had stop believing she was gonna win another slam), serena was a shadow of the 2002/2003 version in 04. as for mauresmo yep sharapova beat her.yep sharapova beat mauresmo.
and yep sharapova beat justine serena and lindsay

Ackms421
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:42 PM
Sharapova will never dominate. There has been a slow #1, Davenport, but there's never been a slow champion who was able to "dominate." Even Seles, in her day, was very quick (or quick at least). Sharapova has a lot going for her. I imagine her already foridable serve will only get better. Her net game can only improve. Groundstrokes are solid. Fighting spirit is on par with the best in history. But, without the movement, she'll never dominate.

I know this is the most-cited example ever, but look at what an out of shape Serena did to her last year.

Sharapova's great, but graceful movement can't be taught, and she's not even quick moving forward like many tall girls are.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:45 PM
For the moment Masha is the best player after Justine. I think the YEC made that very clear and I see nothing that changes that in the forseeable future.

Volcana
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Can we stop with the 'she only won cause the opponent was injured/off-form'? Henin won her GS singles titles. Sharpaova won her GS singles titles. They weren't handed to them becasue so-and-so wasn't playing. They earned them. Did Martina Hingis only win three slams in 1997 because Graf was injured, and didn't even play Wimbledon or the US Open? Considering that the head-to-head was 2-2 from 1997 on, that's just not a supportable conclusion.

This whole business of not giving players their due because you don't like them is tiresome.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Sharapova is not a good mover or a good defensive player.
But if u look at everyone 24 and under, Sharapova can clunk her huge body around the court & dominate them all.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:49 PM
Sharapova will never dominate. There has been a slow #1, Davenport, but there's never been a slow champion who was able to "dominate." Even Seles, in her day, was very quick (or quick at least). Sharapova has a lot going for her. I imagine her already foridable serve will only get better. Her net game can only improve. Groundstrokes are solid. Fighting spirit is on par with the best in history. But, without the movement, she'll never dominate.

I know this is the most-cited example ever, but look at what an out of shape Serena did to her last year.

Sharapova's great, but graceful movement can't be taught, and she's not even quick moving forward like many tall girls are.
An out of shape Serena defeated a crippled Masha. We all know Masha's game depends (too much) on her service. With her service gone her game was gone too. However at the YEC she showed that she has some new tricks in her bag. If she continues on that way I think she'll go far.

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Sharapova is not a good mover or a good defensive player.
But if u look at everyone 24 and under, Sharapova can clunk her huge body around the court & dominate them all.

What makes you say that??

Jelena Jankovic and Ana Ivanovic have proved to be rivals and they have much room for improvement. Vaidisova is still there and younger than Maria and there are a crop of new players that show promise.

This idea that Sharapova will takeover and dominate once this generation is done is such a myth that I myself got caught up in.
And IMO, Justine, Venus, and Serena will be fighting until they can no longer stand on the court for the title of best of this generation and the most slams so I expect them to stick around at least until 30.

Lucemferre
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:51 PM
For the moment Masha is the best player after Justine. I think the YEC made that very clear and I see nothing that changes that in the forseeable future.

:spit:

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:53 PM
What makes you say that??

Jelena Jankovic and Ana Ivanovic have proved to be rivals and they have much room for improvement. Vaidisova is still there and younger than Maria and there are a crop of new players that show promise.

This idea that Sharapova will takeover and dominate once this generation is done is such a myth that I myself got caught up in.
And IMO, Justine, Venus, and Serena will be fighting until they can no longer stand on the court for the title of best of this generation and the most slams so I expect them to stick around at least until 30.
You could be right.

Veritas
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:54 PM
These things vary from generation to generation. Obviously, Sharapova isn't going to follow the same model of GS wins as Venus (4 of 6) or Davenport (3 of 6) or Hingis (4 of 5), all of whom, when they started winning slams, won several slams in a short period of time.

She's a bit off the Serena plan too. Win one. Nothing foe a couple years. Win a bunch.

ASV had this kind of staggered-ness to her slam wins, but she had her year where she won two. I wonder if Sharapova will fool around and let three out of Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Peer, Peng, Mirza, Bartoli and Safarova find slam winning form before she wins another couple more. She could have the misfortune of being one of the best players of two different eras, without ever being the dominant player on tour.

Still, once you've won the second GS singles title, you totally know you can win, it's not some kind of fluke.
She's got that over the non-slam winners.

There are many ways a career can develop and maybe Maria's will come out in a pattern different to those you mentioned :shrug:

Even if she doesn't win 3/4 in a year, she can still be counted as being "dominant" by spreading out GS victories over the course of her career.

JadeFox
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Can we stop with the 'she only won cause the opponent was injured/off-form'? Henin won her GS singles titles. Sharpaova won her GS singles titles. They weren't handed to them becasue so-and-so wasn't playing. They earned them. Did Martina Hingis only win three slams in 1997 because Graf was injured, and didn't even play Wimbledon or the US Open? Considering that the head-to-head was 2-2 from 1997 on, that's just not a supportable conclusion.

This whole business of not giving players their due because you don't like them is tiresome.

I definitely agree with this. If you were to go by the injured argument few tennis players earned any victory. Many players play hurt whether it's known or not.

Expat
Jan 4th, 2008, 06:59 PM
What makes you say that??


And IMO, Justine, Venus, and Serena will be fighting until they can no longer stand on the court for the title of best of this generation and the most slams so I expect them to stick around at least until 30.
highly unlikely
ju will still be there
but i dont think vee and ree will be around till 2012 even though venus has proclaimed many times she wants to play (read retire) at the 2012 olympics


look at serena her mental toughness is still there but her body simply isnt what it used to be
the matches in wimbledon 2007 against daniela and justine are proof of that
she defeated daniela just due to her mental toughness
but against henin even though she fought hard and would have won against her if she was fit
the fact that she isnt fit will mean that in all probability ju will be having higher slams than ree or vee
not that ju can beat the williams sisters on talent alone
but consistency and being injury free will be a big plus for ju
in the count of no of slams and weeks at no 1

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
What makes you say that??

Jelena Jankovic and Ana Ivanovic have proved to be rivals and they have much room for improvement. Vaidisova is still there and younger than Maria and there are a crop of new players that show promise.

This idea that Sharapova will takeover and dominate once this generation is done is such a myth that I myself got caught up in.
And IMO, Justine, Venus, and Serena will be fighting until they can no longer stand on the court for the title of best of this generation and the most slams so I expect them to stick around at least until 30.

I expect to seem them around longer than that.... The body continues to gain muscle and increase organs etc... until the mid thirties..... I'm not sure how long Justine will stick around, but i see Venus playing into her thirties with the only thing making her stop being Serena (I believe they said they would retire together... even though i hope they dont cause i see Serena wanting out before Venus)

As for the topic of the thread. Sharapova will never dominate...At this rate, Sharapova's game is maxed out..she does what she can with what she has, and since I dont see Venus Serena or Justine retiring anytime soon, you really think its gonna take 3/4/5 years for the new stars to rise?

I dont see Sharapova amassing more than 5 GS titles....she just doesnt have the game...shes not an all around player like justine or serena, and she doesnt have Venus' speed. I just dont see it happening....

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:05 PM
highly unlikely
ju will still be there
but i dont think vee and ree around till 2012 even though venus has proclaimed many times she wants to retire at the 2012 olympics
if anyone is even thinking of retiring it is because their bodies or minds are no longer up to the task

look at serena her mental toughness is still there but her body simply isnt what it used to be
the matches in wimbledon 2007 against daniela and justine are proof of that
she defeated daniela just due to her mental toughness
but against henin even though she fought hard and would have won against her if she was fit
the fact that she isnt fit will mean that in all probability ju will be having higher slams than ree or vee
not that ju can beat the williams sisters on talent alone
but consistency and being injury free will be a big plus for ju
in the count of no of slams and weeks at no 1

Venus has never said she wants to "retire" at the 2012 olympics. she has said she plans on playing them though......

Have you seen Serena lately? shes starting to get pretty fit again...
And justine often times ends up with "mysterious" injuries coughaustrain open 2006cough so to say she'll "remain" injury free....

Furthermore of the three Venus is by far the best athlete so id expect her to last longer. much like NAvratalova and Graf(who could have stayed around much longer IMO if she had wanted to)

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:08 PM
:spit:

yay i got a good chuckle out of that as well.... forget the fact that should hadnt won a match the months leading up to it and her 3rd round throw out of the US OPEN... Heck even Alexandra Stevenson found her game for 1 week this year on the tour....or so i hear....:help:

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I expect to seem them around longer than that.... The body continues to gain muscle and increase organs etc... until the mid thirties..... I'm not sure how long Justine will stick around, but i see Venus playing into her thirties with the only thing making her stop being Serena (I believe they said they would retire together... even though i hope they dont cause i see Serena wanting out before Venus)

As for the topic of the thread. Sharapova will never dominate...At this rate, Sharapova's game is maxed out..she does what she can with what she has, and since I dont see Venus Serena or Justine retiring anytime soon, you really think its gonna take 3/4/5 years for the new stars to rise?

I dont see Sharapova amassing more than 5 GS titles....she just doesnt have the game...shes not an all around player like justine or serena, and she doesnt have Venus' speed. I just dont see it happening....

she definitely has the game for 3 GS's= aussie, wimbledon and us open
she will be every year a big contender for these tourneys.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Sharapova has the game to win 10+ majors.
She was a point from winning the 2005 AO. That would have been 3 as a teen.
It's going to depend on if any great 12-14 year old comes along 5-7 years from now.

Expat
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Venus has never said she wants to "retire" at the 2012 olympics. she has said she plans on playing them though......

Have you seen Serena lately? shes starting to get pretty fit again...
And justine often times ends up with "mysterious" injuries coughaustrain open 2006cough so to say she'll "remain" injury free....

Furthermore of the three Venus is by far the best athlete so id expect her to last longer. much like NAvratalova and Graf(who could have stayed around much longer IMO if she had wanted to)
my fault i corrected it soon afterwards about the olympics
but you already quoted it

serena still isnt moving that well
and as for ju i couldnt care less for her but gotta give her credit thats she has worked hard and is concerned about tennis so much
the desire to win in her is there
this is something that i find lacking in venus many times
even richard commented upon it
i dont find the desire to win lacking in ree though


and for serena the way she plays her power tennis ( ps i love her for that reason only plus her attitude)its more than likely that she will get injured far more often that justine for that reason

Wayn77
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Maria has the awesome power and the toughness to continue to dominate almost everything outside the top 5.

It looks a slightly different story when she is being out-manoeuvred by the very best.

Forced out wide, continually on the move, cramped - suddenly the effortless time to stand tall and blaze a deluge of winners is taken away.

I am sure Team Sharapova are looking for progression in this area.

Geisha
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:17 PM
I would say so. I mean, with Sharapova's game, one wonders how much more improving she could do. With Justine, she had many holes in her game and that is why she was finally able to get a stranglehold on the top. Sharapova seems stagnant - there's only so much a basher can be taught.

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:18 PM
my fault i corrected it soon afterwards about the olympics
but you already quoted it

serena still isnt moving that well
and as for ju i couldnt care less for her but gotta give her credit thats she has worked hard and is concerned about tennis so much
the desire to win in her is there
this is something that i find lacking in venus many times
even richard commented upon it
i dont find the desire to win lacking in ree though


and for serena the way she plays her power tennis ( ps i love her for that reason only plus her attitude)its more than likely that she will get injured far more often that justine for that reason

oh yes, i agree with that as richard stated though this year he sees the fire back in her eye.... even in 05 she still wasnt playing/ talking about winning the way she did in 07....

And yes Serena still isnt moving great yet... but i mean come on you've seen the photos of 07 AO and the photos of 05 AO (i was embarrassed for her when they kept showing them side by side) it'll take a lot of time for her to get back into shape.... but even navratilova stated that She def noticing a deferrence now and that old hag (haha, i do like her, but she def old and bitter) doesnt give credit to anyone who doesnt deserve it.

And yes Ju works hard,, i just dont know how long she'll be able to keep it up....

The Daviator
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:18 PM
Sharapova has the game to win 10+ majors.
She was a point from winning the 2005 AO. That would have been 3 as a teen.
It's going to depend on if any great 12-14 year old comes along 5-7 years from now.

What? :lol:

Had it not rained at Wimbledon, Linds would have finished the job and she'd only have 1 Slam right now.

Ifs and buts go both ways.

Anyway, as someone else said, no slow player has ever dominated, nobody knows what the future holds, Kuznetsova could dominate, Ivanovic could, Justine isn't going anywhere for a while, Maria is only 20 and yet she's had numerous injuries, her gamestyle is not conducive to a fit player that can play for years and years, she'll definitely win more Slams though.

GrafMariaPetraK
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:19 PM
What makes you say that??

Jelena Jankovic and Ana Ivanovic have proved to be rivals and they have much room for improvement. Vaidisova is still there and younger than Maria and there are a crop of new players that show promise.

This idea that Sharapova will takeover and dominate once this generation is done is such a myth that I myself got caught up in.
And IMO, Justine, Venus, and Serena will be fighting until they can no longer stand on the court for the title of best of this generation and the most slams so I expect them to stick around at least until 30.
You say there's time for Jankovic who is older than Maria to improve and Ivanovic who is the same age as Sharapova.I guess you think Maria's just gonna sit on her laurels and not improve her game:tape: She is a very determined young Lady and knows what she needs to improve.

Volcana
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:21 PM
For the moment Masha is the best player after Justine.The second best player in the world doesn't lose at the slams 6-1 6-2, 6-2 6-1, 6-1 6-3, all to players ranked below her, and than follow all that up with a 6-4 1-6 6-2 loss to a player who is not even in the the top 30.

You wanna argue the Williams sisters were under-ranked? Okay. But if she's the second best player, they still would have been ranked below her.

There's an expression you've read on this board before. "You are what your record says you are".

If you're ranked #5, and didn't win any slams, you are NOT the second best player in the world. I'm not sure there IS a second best player. There's Henin and then four or five players tied for #5. But for sure Sharapova is NOT the second best of the current players.Sharapova has the game to win 10+ majors.Where DO these ideas come from? In the open era, there have only been THREE player who turned out to have a game of that magnitude. Evert, Navratilova and Graf. Sharapova has NOT shown she's in that class. Monica Seles didn't wind up able to do that, tragic as those circumstances were. I can see five or six, if her health and interest holds up. But TEN!?!? Not on this planet.

doni1212
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:25 PM
The second best player in the world doesn't lose at the slams 6-1 6-2, 6-2 6-1, 6-1 6-3, all to players ranked below her, and than follow all that up with a 6-4 1-6 6-2 loss to a player who is not even in the the top 30.

You wanna argue the Williams sisters were under-ranked? Okay. But if she's the second best player, they still would have been ranked below her.

There's an expression you've read on this board before. "You are what your record says you are".

If you're ranked #5, and didn't win any slams, you are NOT the second best player in the world. I'm not sure there IS a second best player. There's Henin and then four or five players tied for #5. But for sure Sharapova is NOT the second best of the current players.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:32 PM
You say there's time for Jankovic who is older than Maria to improve and Ivanovic who is the same age as Sharapova.I guess you think Maria's just gonna sit on her laurels and not improve her game:tape: She is a very determined young Lady and knows what she needs to improve.

What people are saying is no sharapovas not going to reat on them, but the fact is Sharapovas game is like Venus'. Problem is she doesnt have Venus' speed, and she wont have Venus' speed. The only thing she might and i say MIGHT be able to obtain of venus' is her first serve and thats gonna take a LOT of work, and i still dont see it happening. thats what *I* and many other say when they say SHarapova is maxed out.....

Ivanovic has a lot to work on as far as honing in on her skills.. Will she dominate? NO, probably not. becuase she falls into the same boat as Sharapova... Venus' game without the speed.....

Who does that leave to dominate? Jankovic? i can see her doing it problem with her is will she drain her body by playing every week and go the route of dokic....

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:33 PM
In the open era, there have only been THREE player who turned out to have a game of that magnitude. Evert, Navratilova and Graf. Sharapova has NOT shown she's in that class. Monica Seles didn't wind up able to do that, tragic as those circumstances were. I can see five or six, if her health and interest holds up. But TEN!?!? Not on this planet.

well, u dont know what will happen in the future. for sure its POSSIBLE maria or someone like henin can win 10+ GS's. The tour is much more different than earlier. I think the rivalry in the 90ties were bigger. There were players like seles, graf, capriati, both williams and who the hell. Nowadays players who win majors are both williams,henin and sharapova. I dont think any other player will win a major in the next 3 years if those 4 play each GS
so if maria is lucky she can win A LOT of slams. she has got a huge game

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:41 PM
Seles would have won a lot more than 10, if she wasn't knifed.
Justine is grinding her way up to 10+
That's how Sharapova does it. Wears you out mentally. Nonstop focus.

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:42 PM
The second best player in the world doesn't lose at the slams 6-1 6-2, 6-2 6-1, 6-1 6-3, all to players ranked below her, and than follow all that up with a 6-4 1-6 6-2 loss to a player who is not even in the the top 30.

You wanna argue the Williams sisters were under-ranked? Okay. But if she's the second best player, they still would have been ranked below her.

There's an expression you've read on this board before. "You are what your record says you are".

If you're ranked #5, and didn't win any slams, you are NOT the second best player in the world. I'm not sure there IS a second best player. There's Henin and then four or five players tied for #5. But for sure Sharapova is NOT the second best of the current players.Where DO these ideas come from? In the open era, there have only been THREE player who turned out to have a game of that magnitude. Evert, Navratilova and Graf. Sharapova has NOT shown she's in that class. Monica Seles didn't wind up able to do that, tragic as those circumstances were. I can see five or six, if her health and interest holds up. But TEN!?!? Not on this planet.
I get your point. I never said she would win 10 slams.

Expat
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:43 PM
well, u dont know what will happen in the future. for sure its POSSIBLE maria or someone like henin can win 10+ GS's. The tour is much more different than earlier. I think the rivalry in the 90ties were bigger. There were players like seles, graf, capriati, both williams and who the hell. Nowadays players who win majors are both williams,henin and sharapova. I dont think any other player will win a major in the next 3 years if those 4 play each GS
so if maria is lucky she can win A LOT of slams. she has got a huge game

i agree
maria may have had a bad year
but the fact is that she doesnt lose that to players ranked way below her that often
so she will be in a lot of semis still
this ao if she faces henin in the quarters could be an exception plus the french isnt her strong point
but by the time of wimbledon she will most definitely be in semis again unless serena plays badly in both AO and miami and somehow crashes out of the rankings altogether and meets maria in an early round
so i will give her a shot at wimby again as well as to a lesser extent at US open
not this year AO or FO but the remaining two majors she has a good shot of winning them
anyway she is more likely to have better slam results than at least one williams sisters because she is just too consistent
having said that i expect a williams sisters will be more likely to be winning a slam
A williams slam year tends to be like one absent one final (perhaps winning that final) 1 fourth round 1 quarters

whereas we can be reasonably sure of at least 3 quarters and 2 semis for maria at least in a healthy year

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 4th, 2008, 07:47 PM
if Maria is not injuired she'll dominate , assuming that Henin or Serena on their thirties will be a challenge to Maria when she is in her mid and late twenties is just a silly dream ,
and her generation , she's better than them all by stages , she is not even compared to them , she's compared to players older than her by 6 years ,
Maria is on top 5 since 2004 , she lost in a lot of semifinals to the champions of the slam like Venus on Wim 2005 and Mouresmo on Wim 2006 , Kim on US open 2005 , Serena on AO 2005 ,
tell me one player from her generation can beat her on grass please , or hard courts when she's not injuried ,
her hard work will pay off next years , she could be injuried sure , but we are assuming they're all healthy ,

and about her one dimentional play , it takes more than strentgh to reach this limit of playing , she's so talented and plays very hard and with high accuracy , if you only strong you will play the ball very hard but you'll not play with this accuracy ,
yes she can't run fast but she doesn't need that a lot on her game ,

and she really added a lot of things to her game , but you don't want to see that ,

and the most important thing is that she's so tough mentally , not only oncourt but on decisions , who will go to play YEC with top players after what happened before that , but she went and played and reached the final losing to number 1 player after 3 hours and half , and ended the season number 5 instead of 9 in ranking , that's more than a ball basher player ,

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=The Daviator;12227400]What? :lol:

Had it not rained at Wimbledon, Linds would have finished the job and she'd only have 1 Slam right now.

QUOTE]

Maria won Wimbledon cause she beated Serena not Lindsay ,

see the semi final again cause it wasn't Lindsay who played bad , it's Maria who played very well and so determined , see the second set again , she won 7-6 , not due to the rain delay but cause she was better player than Lindsay and decided to win this match , it was never cause of the rain delay , what's the difference between the rain delay and any time , how could a rain delay let a player who reached rank 1 and a slam champion lose a slam semi final ,

Morrissey
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM
I don't see growth in Sharapova's game I think that's what is holding Maria back.Maria is talented and she's already won two slams. However, the way the media hype her they act like she's Henin and the Williams Sisters level. Sharapova needs more game she needs more variety. Maria needs to think on the court more. I suggest Maria play more doubles and develop a more sound volley. If Maria could come to net a lot more with her height she would be even better. She also needs to add slice, lobs, drop shots and improve her fitness. Maria is slim but I don't think she's fit enough. She needs to do more off court and not just hit the ball hard.

Morrissey
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:06 PM
I do think Lindsay choked that semifinal in 2004. Lindsay has a propensity to choke and nobody talks about it. Look at Lindsay's career she's choked so many big matches in the last few years. Lindsay has got the game but does she got the mind? Maria did play well in the 2004 Wimbledon semifinal match but Lindsay also got tight.

Destiny
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:08 PM
i think sharapova is good but is not yet at a level where i think she can dominate the rest of the players

vejh
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:16 PM
Maria doesn't need to add all those things to her game to be the best or win a handful of majors. Her fitness was a factor which she dealt with. She is still mentally fragile but she's dealing with it.

No, Venus and Pova play 2 different games. yes Pova is tall and have a big serve, but she plays a Serena-like game in her flat, angled, on-the-line groundstrokes. She is constantly on the offensive. Not so with Venus.

Her game has it's short-comings, Pova, but she just needs to work with what she's got, and it's alot.

As for Ju, her biggest problem was, and still is, mental.

Serge007
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:19 PM
but she plays a Serena-like game in her flat, angled, on-the-line groundstrokes.
No. b/c Serena isn't so tall. Lindsay-like.

vejh
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:28 PM
Even though Pova is tall she plays a gs game more similar to Serena than Lindsay. No one quite plays like Linds. Linds doesn't use the whole angle game like Serena, Monica, Pova, but she plays more geometrically for want of a better term

bandabou
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Hmmm...Maria to me is already what she's gonna be. Consistent a la Lindsay. Won't lose to players below her but won't be beating players above her. Right now three players seem to have her number..Justine, Serena, Venus ( certainly on grass)..and those players all can handle her pace but are better movers...So that's the weakness: make her move, make her move. But of all her fellow generation players have the same problem.

The one with the best weapons imo: would be Golovin..but don't know if she has the head. 10+ majors? Don't see it happen..

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:37 PM
10+ slams??? :spit:

I've already described why Justine and Sharapova are so different.

And Jelena and Ana have so much to improve and i see them doing so because, unlike Sharapova, they have not remained stagnant. They have catapulted(sp?) to the top this year and still have areas they can improve a lot on.

What improvements will Maria honestly make? She's never going to be fast, her footwork could use work but that wont get her speed. She's already the most mentally tough player besides Serena and her groundstrokes aren't going to get too much better. Net play is not her game and neither is using much variety. I only see space for small tinkering and more consistent serving.

If Ana, Jelena, Sveta, Vaidisova and the others suddenly stop being mental midgets in big spots and grow more consistent.. they could be as good as Sharapova.

Sharapova is a great player but her advantage over the other's is her mental strength and consistency. She does not have the best forehand, backhand, serve, return, volleys, speed, or any other part of her game.

Wayn77
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Hmmm...Maria to me is already what she's gonna be. Consistent a la Lindsay. Won't lose to players below her but won't be beating players above her. Right now three players seem to have her number..Justine, Serena, Venus ( certainly on grass)..and those players all can handle her pace but are better movers...So that's the weakness: make her move, make her move. But of all her fellow generation players have the same problem.


And to a similar degree I see the same current flaws with Ivanovic and Vaidisova against the elite.

Make them move, make them move - give them no time.

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Hmmm...Maria to me is already what she's gonna be. Consistent a la Lindsay. Won't lose to players below her but won't be beating players above her. Right now three players seem to have her number..Justine, Serena, Venus ( certainly on grass)..and those players all can handle her pace but are better movers...So that's the weakness: make her move, make her move. But of all her fellow generation players have the same problem.

The one with the best weapons imo: would be Golovin..but don't know if she has the head. 10+ majors? Don't see it happen..


Nice post :) but... :spit: the Golovin comment is a little crazy I think

CJ07
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:49 PM
Sharapova benefits from a very poor talent pool within her age group. However, she can only do so much to improve. If you look at those who are the 'big three' they have only made marginal improvements since they first won their slam. Serena of 2002 was basically the same as the Serena of 1999, only that she was mentally tough and her shots consistently went in. Justine of 2007 is basically the same as the Justine of 2001, outside that her shots have more velocity and she is tough as nails with loads of confidence. Venus of 2001 was the same as the Venus of 1999 only that she was mentally tough and her shots consistently went in.

Basically, those players increased their consistency/shot potency and mental toughness. Sharapova doesn't have either problem - they are her hallmarks. However, she can't really improve her mental toughness and shes about as consistent as she's going to get.

Her movement wont really change, and shes never going to be great at the net. Basically, she is this generation's Davenport. A damn good player, but just not a great one.

Also, talent comes in waves. Nav/Evert dominated, then there was a lull, then Graf/Seles came around. Then there was another lull, then Hingis/Venus/Serena came around. Lull, Justine came around. Now there is a lull (relatively speaking) and then _______ will come around.

We just don't know who that is yet.

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:49 PM
If Ana, Jelena, Sveta, Vaidisova and the others suddenly stop being mental midgets in big spots and grow more consistent.. they could be as good as Sharapova.



They wont stop being mental midgets. Thats the only thing u cant learn. U can work on ur footwork, volleys, groundstrokes, service, but u cant work on ur mental toughness.

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:51 PM
They wont stop being mental midgets. Thats the only thing u cant learn. U can work on ur footwork, volleys, groundstrokes, service, but u cant work on ur mental toughness.

That is ridiculous.

Recent example?? Amelie Mauresmo

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:51 PM
It's not mental midgets. It's the ability to keep that focus for hours.
Maria beat Lindsay 3 of 4 times they played. Whenever Lindsay had a letdown, Maria took over.
That's how she's going to win many more majors. She wears u out mentally. If Justine or Serena has an off day, Maria takes them down.

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:53 PM
It's not mental midgets. It's the ability to keep that focus for hours.
Maria beat Lindsay 3 of 4 times they played. Whenever Lindsay had a letdown, Maria took over.
That's how she's going to win many more majors.

By beating Lindsay DAvenport :lol:

It's about not crumbling under pressure. Usually it develops as one gets into more of those situations.

Serge007
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:55 PM
If Ana, Jelena, Sveta, Vaidisova and the others suddenly stop being mental midgets in big spots and grow more consistent.. they could be as good as Sharapova.
another could be, should be... it's funny.

CJ07
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:57 PM
It's not mental midgets. It's the ability to keep that focus for hours.
Maria beat Lindsay 3 of 4 times they played. Whenever Lindsay had a letdown, Maria took over.
That's how she's going to win many more majors. She wears u out mentally. If Justine or Serena has an off day, Maria takes them down.
But thats the only way she can win. Look, the girl isn't that talented. Only three people have gotten past 10 slams, and Sharapova doesn't even come close to their talent, much less the ones who have 5+

People, she is overrated.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Nobody Maria's age has the combination of pace and placement that Maria does.
Maria has beaten everyone, and beaten them in big spots.

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 08:59 PM
well, u dont know what will happen in the future. for sure its POSSIBLE maria or someone like henin can win 10+ GS's. The tour is much more different than earlier. I think the rivalry in the 90ties were bigger. There were players like seles, graf, capriati, both williams and who the hell. Nowadays players who win majors are both williams,henin and sharapova. I dont think any other player will win a major in the next 3 years if those 4 play each GS
so if maria is lucky she can win A LOT of slams. she has got a huge game

I love how you throw sharapova in there like theres only four people winning slams......

US 07 Henin
Wimble 07 Venus
French 07 Henin
AO 07 Serena
US 06 SHarapova
Wim 06 Mauresmo
French 06 Henin
AO 06 Mauresmo
US 05 Clijsters
Wim 05 Venus
FRench 05 Henin
Ao 05 Serena
US 04 Kuznetsova
Wimb 04 Sharapova
French 04 Myskina

Clearly they arent the only ones winning slams.... Other than Henin, Venus and Serena we've got 4 other Grand slam winners whose names arent Sharapova since the year of her first grand slam victory.... And its not like shes been in final after final either.... and only losing too those 3 players.... clearly your delusional if you think that the second Henin Venus and Serena retire SHarapova will dominate the entire tour...

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:02 PM
By beating Lindsay DAvenport :lol:

It's about not crumbling under pressure. Usually it develops as one gets into more of those situations.

its funny....how Sharapovas game is so simlar to lindsays if you take away the excellent ball striking and add in some loud screaming they're almost the same player, and lindsay as it appears now will only end with 3 slams yet someone not as talented as her is expected to have 10+:rolleyes:

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Lindsay hasn't won a major since Jan 2000. That's 8 years.
Maria won the last major of 2006.
And wasn't healthy last year. Took a cortisone shot.

Russianboy
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:07 PM
I love how you throw sharapova in there like theres only four people winning slams......

US 07 Henin
Wimble 07 Venus
French 07 Henin
AO 07 Serena
US 06 SHarapova
Wim 06 Mauresmo
French 06 Henin
AO 06 Mauresmo
US 05 Clijsters
Wim 05 Venus
FRench 05 Henin
Ao 05 Serena
US 04 Kuznetsova
Wimb 04 Sharapova
French 04 Myskina

Clearly they arent the only ones winning slams.... Other than Henin, Venus and Serena we've got 4 other Grand slam winners whose names arent Sharapova since the year of her first grand slam victory.... And its not like shes been in final after final either.... and only losing too those 3 players.... clearly your delusional if you think that the second Henin Venus and Serena retire SHarapova will dominate the entire tour...

2 of them retired (clijsters and Nastya).
who knows if Mauresmo will find her game again..
ok, then there is also sveta, but its hard with her... i dont know.
I dont see her beating venus, serena, henin or masha although I really like her.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:10 PM
Venus won 4 of her 6 majors in a 14 month period.
If u don't think Maria can win a slam here and a slam there, and then around age 24 and 25 win 4 in 2 years, then you're kidding yourself.
That's very possible.

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Lindsay hasn't won a major since Jan 2000. That's 8 years.
Maria won the last major of 2006.
And wasn't healthy last year. Took a cortisone shot.

and your point..... 8 years ago lindsay fans expected many more GS titles from her as well... BUT it wouldnt be, and since her last slam lindsay actually became FASTER (the thing Sharapova can only hope to do) after she lost weight and she still only has 3. Point is Sharapova is like Lindsay a threat to always be there in the end.... but is she gonna run away with 10 + slams? No sir.....

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:13 PM
Venus won 4 of her 6 majors in a 14 month period.
If u don't think Maria can win a slam here and a slam there, and then around age 24 and 25 win 4 in 2 years, then you're kidding yourself.
That's very possible.

What signs point to that happening? OF course it is possible. It is possible that Brie Whitehead will suddenly start winning titles. It's possible that Henin may retired tomorrow. Of course none of those things are probable

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:14 PM
btw, end the Lindsay comparisons. They are not alike.. only in height.

They play slightly differently and Sharapova has more mental strength than Lindsay ever has had.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Justine won 3 majors from May 2003-Jan 2004.
Good players take advantage of situations. Win majors in clusters.
Maria is certainly capable, especially a few years from now.

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Venus won 4 of her 6 majors in a 14 month period.
If u don't think Maria can win a slam here and a slam there, and then around age 24 and 25 win 4 in 2 years, then you're kidding yourself.
That's very possible.

lol...thats the point of this whole thread. is that Venus won 4 of her 6 in the span of a 14 month period....that serena won 5 of her 8 in a 14 month period. That point is many of you believe that once Venus Serena Henin retire Sharapova will lead all the slams...

But answer me this, where was Sharapova when Venus and Serena where pretty much MIA in 04, 05, and 06.. (yes they won slams in 05, but pretty much after those 2 weeks of gs titles they werent really a dominate force) Henin was def around, but if you think only these 3 players can beat her.... why has sharapova not been in every final when these 3 players arent there....

Paul.be
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Que sera sera. I don't have a crystal ball (at least one that works) to look into the future.

bandabou
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:18 PM
Nice post :) but... :spit: the Golovin comment is a little crazy I think

:lol: No..Golovin impressed me in her matches against Justine. She's game..but it needs work on mental side.

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:18 PM
In 2005 the good older players won the majors. Kim was super that hardcourt summer.
Maria took advantage in 2004 and 2006.
She's 20. She's just getting started.

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:27 PM
btw, end the Lindsay comparisons. They are not alike.. only in height.

They play slightly differently and Sharapova has more mental strength than Lindsay ever has had.

I disagree with that... its one thing to be "mentally tough" when your the up and comer new kid on the block with nothing to lose (wimbledon 2004). Its another when you're the veteran (the choke of the US OPEN 07 with noone in front of you to keep you from another final....).

Volcana
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:30 PM
Venus won 4 of her 6 majors in a 14 month period.
If u don't think Maria can win a slam here and a slam there, and then around age 24 and 25 win 4 in 2 years, then you're kidding yourself.
That's very possible.he point every seems to be ignoring is that players usually do that winning slams in clusters at the beginning of their slam winning period. The exceptions I know of are Serena and Nav. But in most cases, that cluster comes right out the gate. Players who win a slam her and a slam there usually don't get past three or four, in the open era. Hell, they don't usually get TO three or four. Anything is possible, but Sharapova is already off the course that most players who win 5+ slams take. And note that the two exceptions were super-athletes of their time. In both Serena and Nav's cases, at one point they were probably the best female athlete in the world. Period. Not just tennis. Sharapova isn't that kind of athlete.

She'll chart her own course, but right now, she looks a LOT like Tracy Austin. HUGE power, early success, a long time at the top, but relatively few slams.

AcesHigh
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:31 PM
I disagree with that... its one thing to be "mentally tough" when your the up and comer new kid on the block with nothing to lose (wimbledon 2004). Its another when you're the veteran (the choke of the US OPEN 07 with noone in front of you to keep you from another final....).

Please, she had many other opportunities to choke.. like against Justine Henin in the USO final.

danieln1
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:32 PM
These things vary from generation to generation. Obviously, Sharapova isn't going to follow the same model of GS wins as Venus (4 of 6) or Davenport (3 of 6) or Hingis (4 of 5), all of whom, when they started winning slams, won several slams in a short period of time.

She's a bit off the Serena plan too. Win one. Nothing foe a couple years. Win a bunch.

ASV had this kind of staggered-ness to her slam wins, but she had her year where she won two. I wonder if Sharapova will fool around and let three out of Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Peer, Peng, Mirza, Bartoli and Safarova find slam winning form before she wins another couple more. She could have the misfortune of being one of the best players of two different eras, without ever being the dominant player on tour.

Still, once you've won the second GS singles title, you totally know you can win, it's not some kind of fluke.
She's got that over the non-slam winners.

These players won´t find slam winning form never! They don´t have the game/mental ability to win a slam, they´re far from it!

Brooks.
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:38 PM
Sharapova plays one good tournament at the end of last year and now she's the clear number 2???

she wasn't even that impressive...oh and fyi she didn't even win it

Tennisstar86
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:45 PM
Please, she had many other opportunities to choke.. like against Justine Henin in the USO final.

Once again its one thing to hold on to a match when your playing well another to hold onto it when the other person puts up a fight.... At the US OPEN, 3rd round her opponent had a couple games of fight in her and sharapova crumbled under the pressure. Thats the def between Sharapova and what i call "mentally" strong. (the way Henin held on when Venus fought back, or the way Serena and Venus have come back from defeat to win titles: Venus 05 wimbledon, Serena 05 AO....

he point every seems to be ignoring is that players usually do that winning slams in clusters at the beginning of their slam winning period. The exceptions I know of are Serena and Nav. But in most cases, that cluster comes right out the gate. Players who win a slam her and a slam there usually don't get past three or four, in the open era. Hell, they don't usually get TO three or four. Anything is possible, but Sharapova is already off the course that most players who win 5+ slams take. And note that the two exceptions were super-athletes of their time. In both Serena and Nav's cases, at one point they were probably the best female athlete in the world. Period. Not just tennis. Sharapova isn't that kind of athlete.

She'll chart her own course, but right now, she looks a LOT like Tracy Austin. HUGE power, early success, a long time at the top, but relatively few slams.

I wouldnt really through Serena into that mix.... i kinda saw her first major as a "fluke" if you will or rather a glimpse into what she would become...

Wayn77
Jan 4th, 2008, 09:46 PM
These players won´t find slam winning form never! They don´t have the game/mental ability to win a slam, they´re far from it!

A two sentence reply: that's a near epic coming from you.

We could base a blockbuster movie in three separate instalments with that reply.


Mental ability and learning to win big: is something that has to learnt, it cannot be taught.

For some it takes longer than others.

sammy01
Jan 4th, 2008, 10:09 PM
for me the point with maria is its been 3 1/2 years since she won her first slam and she has 2. venus had 4 after that time, serena 5, justine 5. players who dont win alot of slams quickly end up with very few like mary, davenport sanchez-vicario. out of all the players that won multiple slams but never dominated sanchez-vicaro has the most of recent generations with 5 and she was an incredibly fit player who stole a slam now and then, by having a game that could stand the test of time. marias game is nothing like sanchez-vicario so theres no way she will have the longevity of her. if sharapovas gonna win more than 3 slam she has to do it in the next 2/3 years as i dont see her winning a slam at 24. the only problem is henin and the williams will be around the next 2/3 years and there better players. sharapova fans, name me a slow player who won serveral slams after turning 24? it just dosen't happen. to say she will dominate in 3/4 years when all slow moving players before her have never been able to dominate at that age, is like going against history and reason, sharapova wont break the rules or be the exception.

Sean.
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:28 PM
Que sera sera. I don't have a crystal ball (at least one that works) to look into the future.

Finally sense!

The fact is it is impossible to tell.

Sharapova could dominate for a few years, she could win only a few more slams, she could fade away without winning another slam, or who knows she could get a career ending injury at AO (please don't make my regret saying that)

Only time will tell

Leo_DFP
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:34 PM
I'm not convinced that Maria has the body, technique, or talent to last like a Davenport or even Henin. I question how much of a mark she's going to make on the sport and how many Slams she'll win in the long run...

I don't know, but I have a feeling how she does this year is going to say a lot about her upcoming years. :confused:

Wannabeknowitall
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:35 PM
If Sharapova is going to dominate, isn't it about time?

Are you kidding me? :lol:

She doesn't have any feature that would designate that to be the case.
She has power but not the most power on tour.
She has a serve but it's not the best on tour.
She doesn't have much defense.
She doesn't have great footwork.
She doesn't have great speed around the court.
She doesn't have variety.
She doesn't have good volleys.

How exactly is she going to dominate against players who are complete players compared to her and she doesn't seem to be putting in the effort to get better?

RenaSlam.
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:37 PM
If Sharapova is going to dominate, isn't it about time?

Are you kidding me? :lol:

She doesn't have any feature that would designate that to be the case.
She has power but not the most power on tour.
She has a serve but it's not the best on tour.
She doesn't have much defense.
She doesn't have great footwork.
She doesn't have great speed around the court.
She doesn't have variety.
She doesn't have good volleys.

How exactly is she going to dominate against players who are complete players compared to her and she doesn't seem to be putting in the effort to get better?

:worship:

Ballin'!

goldenlox
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:38 PM
She'll dominate by winning the most majors of anyone post Graf. She's got 2 at 20, and no one anywhere near her age has a major except Sveta.

waratahsrock
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:48 PM
How exactly is she going to dominate against players who are complete players compared to her and she doesn't seem to be putting in the effort to get better?

How do you know just how much effort she is putting in?

waratahsrock
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:50 PM
Maria has plenty of years to achieve many slams. The major obstacle is keeping injury free for a long period of time. '07 was ruined with injury

Wannabeknowitall
Jan 4th, 2008, 11:58 PM
How do you know just how much effort she is putting in?

Well you tell me.

She hasn't played doubles in years.
Martina Navratilova can tell you, that someone can hit a million volleys a day but if you're not playing a match, it's a waste.

If she would actually attempt to play some once in a while on tour, it would help her serve immensely, her volleys, her anticipation, and her approach shots.

You know what helped Sharapova win that US Open in 2006?
No it wasn't the cheating.

It was her ability to surprise Justine with not only her movement but her volleys, her true volleys.
She closed the court on her side so that Justine options were minimized and opened the side of Justine's court by coming up with the goods.

Problem is. Sharapova has won her slams by surprising players.
You only get one time for that with Serena or Justine.
She has to continue to get better in the areas I mentioned and if she isn't going to those two will continue to crush her.

Volcana
Jan 5th, 2008, 12:27 AM
She has power but not the most power on tour.
She has a serve but it's not the best on tour.
She doesn't have much defense.
She doesn't have great footwork.
She doesn't have great speed around the court.
She doesn't have variety.
She doesn't have good volleys.All that was said about Christine Marie Evert.

Volcana
Jan 5th, 2008, 12:28 AM
She'll dominate by winning the most majors of anyone post Graf. She's got 2 at 20, and no one anywhere near her age has a major except Sveta.
Winning young means NOTHING. Hingis had 5 slams at 19. Navratilova had ZERO slams at 22.

How'd that work out?

LDVTennis
Jan 5th, 2008, 12:30 AM
All that was said about Christine Marie Evert.

Not true.

When Chris emerged, she possessed the most powerful baseline game of her age.

mankind
Jan 5th, 2008, 12:58 AM
If Sharapova wasn't 6'2, she wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.

Andrew Laeddis
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:00 AM
I expect to seem them around longer than that.... The body continues to gain muscle and increase organs etc... until the mid thirties..... I'm not sure how long Justine will stick around, but i see Venus playing into her thirties with the only thing making her stop being Serena (I believe they said they would retire together... even though i hope they dont cause i see Serena wanting out before Venus)

As for the topic of the thread. Sharapova will never dominate...At this rate, Sharapova's game is maxed out..she does what she can with what she has, and since I dont see Venus Serena or Justine retiring anytime soon, you really think its gonna take 3/4/5 years for the new stars to rise?

I dont see Sharapova amassing more than 5 GS titles....she just doesnt have the game...shes not an all around player like justine or serena, and she doesnt have Venus' speed. I just dont see it happening....

this has nothing to do with maria but r u saying that serena is an all around player and venus is not. venus can play from the baseline, she is skilled at net, has a powerful serve and moves great around the court. she is definitely an all around player.

Andrew Laeddis
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:03 AM
If Sharapova wasn't 6'2, she wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.

Your hate for sharapova must run deep if you truly believe this :bs:

goldenlox
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:04 AM
If Sharapova wasn't 6'2, she wouldn't even be a blip on the radar.If she was shorter, maybe her used toilet seats wouldn't be so valuable. But she would still win majors.

sharapovarulz1
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:05 AM
henin still wouldnt have had any chances vs. maria on that day. masha was just too solid and too consistent.

Well said! :D

mankind
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Your hate for sharapova must run deep if you truly believe this :bs:

She would just be another journeywoman who can hit groundstrokes all day due to relentless hours of practice at some godawful American academy. Her serve is only effective due to the high angle from which it comes, she would be unable to dictate points without her height and she still would be a poor mover and volleyer.

goldenlox
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:10 AM
C'mon. 5-9 is a better height than 6-2.
Serena, Sveta, Amelie, Kim, they're all around the same height. Justine is around 5-6
The 6-2 gives her some advantages and some disadvantages.
Tall girls are not winning most of the majors.

saki
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:28 AM
If she retires at 28 (and she could play longer than that) and wins GSs at her current rate, she'd end her career with 6-7 in total. Not too shabby! And that's if she doesn't dominate but stays at the same sort of level.

All this talk of variety and completeness is a bit misleading. The only top player who has variety and completeness is Justine. Everyone else is essentially one-dimensional. Some have a bit more ability to change it up than others but who will win matches between Maria and Nicole or Maria and Ana is not going to be about who has a good slice or who can hit a dropshot, it's going to be about who can serve big consistently and hit the lines with their groundstrokes.

I also think people have lost a bit of perspective on Maria. There's all this talk about how Ivanovic or whoever has time to develop and dominate but, at the end of the day, Maria has proven herself on the big stage and no-one else within three years of her has done that. Well, Sveta did it once but only the once so far.

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 01:54 AM
If she retires at 28 (and she could play longer than that) and wins GSs at her current rate, she'd end her career with 6-7 in total. Not too shabby! And that's if she doesn't dominate but stays at the same sort of level.

All this talk of variety and completeness is a bit misleading. The only top player who has variety and completeness is Justine. Everyone else is essentially one-dimensional. Some have a bit more ability to change it up than others but who will win matches between Maria and Nicole or Maria and Ana is not going to be about who has a good slice or who can hit a dropshot, it's going to be about who can serve big consistently and hit the lines with their groundstrokes.

I also think people have lost a bit of perspective on Maria. There's all this talk about how Ivanovic or whoever has time to develop and dominate but, at the end of the day, Maria has proven herself on the big stage and no-one else within three years of her has done that. Well, Sveta did it once but only the once so far.

if she retires are 28...except when clijsters retired she stated she didnt see herself playing tennis after the age of 25.... so... who knows....

kinglear
Jan 5th, 2008, 02:01 AM
These things vary from generation to generation. Obviously, Sharapova isn't going to follow the same model of GS wins as Venus (4 of 6) or Davenport (3 of 6) or Hingis (4 of 5), all of whom, when they started winning slams, won several slams in a short period of time.

She's a bit off the Serena plan too. Win one. Nothing foe a couple years. Win a bunch.

ASV had this kind of staggered-ness to her slam wins, but she had her year where she won two. I wonder if Sharapova will fool around and let three out of Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Peer, Peng, Mirza, Bartoli and Safarova find slam winning form before she wins another couple more. She could have the misfortune of being one of the best players of two different eras, without ever being the dominant player on tour.

Still, once you've won the second GS singles title, you totally know you can win, it's not some kind of fluke.
She's got that over the non-slam winners.

You know what, you bring up a good point because I'm not so sure Sharapova will win another Slam. She'll probably fool me, but she's made the semis so many times after her Wimbledon and U.S. Open wins, but somehow she lets the ball drop in the semis, hence SemiPova. Basically, you can always bet on Sharapova going deep into Slams, but never going the distance.

Volcana
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:25 PM
She would just be another journeywoman who can hit groundstrokes all day due to relentless hours of practice at some godawful American academy. Her serve is only effective due to the high angle from which it comes, she would be unable to dictate points without her height and she still would be a poor mover and volleyer.
She played most of last year with a serve that was nothing special, and wound up with a #5 ranking in only 13 tournaments.

mboyle
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:30 PM
You know what, you bring up a good point because I'm not so sure Sharapova will win another Slam. She'll probably fool me, but she's made the semis so many times after her Wimbledon and U.S. Open wins, but somehow she lets the ball drop in the semis, hence SemiPova. Basically, you can always bet on Sharapova going deep into Slams, but never going the distance.

Um...the only other player who even consistently reaches the SF round is Justine. Ivanovic, Vaidisova and the others aren't even safe bets for the quarters quite yet. Sharapova won two slams before her 20th birthday, beating the best two players of the current generation in the two finals. That's really impressive, I'd say.

SharapovaFan16
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:34 PM
I just don't like the comparison to other players. It's stupid. So and so did this before she was this age, and so and so won this many then went on a cold streak. Sharapova isn't like any other player, she's Maria.

We all know she is capable of winning the slams, and it really doesn't matter if she wins them in bunches, or 1 per year. I think she'll end her career with something like 6 slams which isn't too shabby at all.

serenus_2k8
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:36 PM
She MAY dominate once the better players are gone...

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:44 PM
her obstacles are Henin and Williams , her generation players are not good as her , that's so clear but some people especially some Williams fans are bitter twards her I don't know why , she didn't make any thing better than Williams sisters till now except staying on top 5 and money , they just don't like to give her credit although they know she's better than Ivanovic , Svay , etc. , and they know that very well ,

and for saying that Sharapova style of play can't be better cause she's not the king of Henin , okay I'll not argue on this point , but the also Ivanovic the only player on her generation challenging her is not a Henin type ,

and to say Henin and Williams will be playing ( good ) 3 years from now is dream , the more realistic is that Maria if stayed injury free will be dominating on her generation and will be more experienced than the younger ones , just like Henin and Williams are better than her now ,

Williams fans must worry for Williams winning any slam from now in presence of Henin and not worrieng of Sharapovw winning more slams , cause I think she's 20 and they're 26 and 28 ,

SharapovaFan16
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:50 PM
She MAY dominate once the better players are gone...

That's with any sport :lol:. Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball to ever play the game. If Lebron James would have came along during his time he would've had to wait for him to retire to be known as the best player in the game. Same goes for Kobe Bryant.

Truth is there is and always will be someone better than you out there. That's life. Even now Kobe & Lebron aren't considered better than Michael Jordan and shouldn't be, but they are great basketball players.

So you comment really makes no sense at all because if she dominates one these "better" players are gone, she would still be dominating, no?

sharapovarulz1
Jan 5th, 2008, 05:52 PM
I just don't like the comparison to other players. It's stupid. So and so did this before she was this age, and so and so won this many then went on a cold streak. Sharapova isn't like any other player, she's Maria.

We all know she is capable of winning the slams, and it really doesn't matter if she wins them in bunches, or 1 per year. I think she'll end her career with something like 6 slams which isn't too shabby at all.

I totally agree, well said :D

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:00 PM
her obstacles are Henin and Williams , her generation players are not good as her , that's so clear but some people especially some Williams fans are bitter twards her I don't know why , she didn't make any thing better than Williams sisters till now except staying on top 5 and money , they just don't like to give her credit although they know she's better than Ivanovic , Svay , etc. , and they know that very well ,

and for saying that Sharapova style of play can't be better cause she's not the king of Henin , okay I'll not argue on this point , but the also Ivanovic the only player on her generation challenging her is not a Henin type ,

and to say Henin and Williams will be playing ( good ) 3 years from now is dream , the more realistic is that Maria if stayed injury free will be dominating on her generation and will be more experienced than the younger ones , just like Henin and Williams are better than her now ,

Williams fans must worry for Williams winning any slam from now in presence of Henin and not worrieng of Sharapovw winning more slams , cause I think she's 20 and they're 26 and 28 ,

Of the players Maria lost to last year... shes def not "dominatiing them" on head to head, not including henin and the williams'....

Ivanovic: 2-2
Zvonerava: 4-3
Rezai: 1-1 (In my opinion the girl maria fans really should worry about affecting her "dominance")
Jankovic: 3-1 (All there matches have gone 3 sets....and none of marias wins are recent
Radwanska:1-1 Both 3 set matches....
Patty: 6-1 (she dominates her...but who doesnt really?)
Azaranka: 0-1

I believe the people who a deluding themselves are Maria fans who think that without a williams or a henin the field is wide open for maria...

sammy01
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:02 PM
I just don't like the comparison to other players. It's stupid. So and so did this before she was this age, and so and so won this many then went on a cold streak. Sharapova isn't like any other player, she's Maria.

We all know she is capable of winning the slams, and it really doesn't matter if she wins them in bunches, or 1 per year. I think she'll end her career with something like 6 slams which isn't too shabby at all.

that would be nice but you can only predict the future by looking at the past. players that win alot of slams tend to do it early in there career and within 4 years of there first they have won most of the slams there gonna win. why should sharapova be the exception? if you look at it maria won her first slam aged 17 the 2 comparable players of recent generations to her is seles and hingis as they both won slams very early, seles won 8 or her 9 slams within 3 years of the 1st, and hingis won all her 5 slams within 3 years of the 1st. its hard to see why sharapova should buck this trend? as i've said before sanchez-vicrio is the only player to win mulitple slams spread out over a big space of time, and that is because she was an incredible athlete.

Uranium
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:06 PM
I am not being mean, but she wasn't impressive at Hong Kong, movement was decent, but Venus was crushing her first serve
I agree, i don't see her DOMINATING til venus serena henin and davenport are retired.

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Of the players Maria lost to last year... shes def not "dominatiing them" on head to head, not including henin and the williams'....

Ivanovic: 2-2
Zvonerava: 4-3
Rezai: 1-1 (In my opinion the girl maria fans really should worry about affecting her "dominance")
Jankovic: 3-1 (All there matches have gone 3 sets....and none of marias wins are recent
Radwanska:1-1 Both 3 set matches....
Patty: 6-1 (she dominates her...but who doesnt really?)
Azaranka: 0-1

I believe the people who a deluding themselves are Maria fans who think that without a williams or a henin the field is wide open for maria...
well it was the year of the injury.
nobody said anything about henin's 2004 where she lost vs. players like daniilidou.

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:12 PM
Also what i think is interesting is that Venus/ Serena and Henin wont be around in 3 years yet Davenport who is argueable nowhere near their caliber (and i love her to death, 2nd fav) is 32, when she left the game she was 31 and at the top... had just ended the previous year as #1 and as far as we can tell still has the game to get back to the top...

Yet Venus/ Serena/ and Henin are just gonna fall away in a year for sharapova to dominate when Venus is 4 years younger and both Henin and Serena are 6 years younger....

Uranium
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Also what i think is interesting is that Venus/ Serena and Henin wont be around in 3 years yet Davenport who is argueable nowhere near their caliber (and i love her to death, 2nd fav) is 32, when she left the game she was 31 and at the top... had just ended the previous year as #1 and as far as we can tell still has the game to get back to the top...

Yet Venus/ Serena/ and Henin are just gonna fall away in a year for sharapova to dominate when Venus is 4 years younger and both Henin and Serena are 6 years younger....

:tape:
Venus plans to play until 2012 for Olympics.
All of what you said is wrong about WS.

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:17 PM
I am not being mean, but she wasn't impressive at Hong Kong, movement was decent, but Venus was crushing her first serve
I agree, i don't see her DOMINATING til venus serena henin and davenport are retired.

so u appoint maria wont dominate cuz of this match? :tape:
first of all venus was NOT crushing her first serve. maybe sometimes when maria was in a situation like 30 all where u try to bring the ball in the field that u dont have to use ur second service. THEN venus was crushing. but she's doing that with EVERY SERVICES not only of maria. she would have done this with serena's serve as well

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:18 PM
well it was the year of the injury.
nobody said anything about henin's 2004 where she lost vs. players like daniilidou.

Maybe because Henin never lost to Danilidou in 2004.....and whereas it was clear henin had some kind of injury.... as she left the tour for awhile after losing to Tatiana Garbin (her only bad loss in 04 her "injury" year....) Maria plays says shes fine and her fans scream oh her shoulder everytime she loses a match and then scream oh Marias back everytime she wins one.....

However, you dont really hear Maria saying this....

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:20 PM
:tape:
Venus plans to play until 2012 for Olympics.
All of what you said is wrong about WS.

I know..... i was stating the fact that cleopatra thinks its impossible for the williams sisters and henin to be around in 3 years when unathletic Davenport is doing it just fine... but thanks for showing you cant read....:lol:

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:21 PM
Maybe because Henin never lost to Danilidou in 2004.....and whereas it was clear henin had some kind of injury.... as she left the tour for awhile after losing to Tatiana Garbin (her only bad loss in 04 her "injury" year....) Maria plays says shes fine and her fans scream oh her shoulder everytime she loses a match and then scream oh Marias back everytime she wins one.....

However, you dont really hear Maria saying this....

some of u are totally retared. im sorry, but maria's fans dont say this EVERY TIME she loses. some like YOU always say then "oh im sure it was maria's injury" to provoke her fans.
yeah it was 2005. well henin was on court that means she was ready to play. she lost like sharapova to radwanska. period.

Uranium
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:22 PM
I know..... i was stating the fact that cleopatra thinks its impossible for the williams sisters and henin to be around in 3 years when unathletic Davenport is doing it just fine... but thanks for showing you cant read....:lol:

oooo, i was too lazy to read previous pages:o:tape:

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:26 PM
you know she was injuried on 2007 Tennisstar ,

we are not saying she'll not lose , but saying she'll dominate is based on real facts , how can't you see that I don't know ,and at the same time arguing that Henin and Williams will be the same 3 years from now while Sharapova will be only 23 is very realistic for you !

I want to tell me besides Henin and Williams , who can beat non injuried Sharapova on Grass and Hard courts ? that's why we're saying she'll dominate , cause she's younger than them by 6 and 8 years ,

Nicolás89
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:27 PM
who can beat non injuried Sharapova on Grass and Hard courts ?
mauresmo.

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:29 PM
mauresmo.

correct, she is the only one except those three who has can beating masha, but in their last match she got totally ruined :tape:

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:31 PM
I know..... i was stating the fact that cleopatra thinks its impossible for the williams sisters and henin to be around in 3 years when unathletic Davenport is doing it just fine... but thanks for showing you cant read....:lol:

I'm not saying it's impossible or that they will not be around but they will not be the same , that's why players retire , survival of the youngest :wavey:

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:31 PM
you know she was injuried on 2007 Tennisstar ,

we are not saying she'll not lose , but saying she'll dominate is based on real facts , how can't you see that I don't know ,and at the same time arguing that Henin and Williams will be the same 3 years from now while Sharapova will be only 23 is very realistic for you !

I want to tell me besides Henin and Williams , who can beat non injuried Sharapova on Grass and Hard courts ? that's why we're saying she'll dominate , cause she's younger than them by 6 and 8 years ,

lol... All those players have beaten Sharapova before this year except Jankovic.....her "injury" year.... and whereas she may have been injured at one point. she def wasnt injured at the US OPEN.... or WIMBLEDON.... both grass and Hard courts... "based on real facts" by the fact that shes not dominating the tour right now.... lol

Based on real facts if Maria were going to dominate without them, itd be like 2002-2003 when Serena won everything and Venus only lost to her. and Henin lost to one or the other and when they werent around she won (Us Open 03) you have no facts to say she'll dominate when they're gone, just wishful thinking....

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:34 PM
all players beat each other before and will do , I can't see how that can prove she's not the best player of her generation ,

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:36 PM
some of u are totally retared. .
:lol:

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I'm not saying it's impossible or that they will not be around but they will not be the same , that's why players retire , survival of the youngest :wavey:

Martina navratilova won her last major at the tender age of 34 in 1990.. she had made the QF or better in the previous 5 gs she played and made more after that... and she was the greatest athlete on tour prior to Venus Williams who Nav herself has stated is an even better athlete.... and yes survival of the youngest, by the time williams and Henin "retire" Sharapova will be on the way out heself..

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:43 PM
yes ofcours Tennistar , when Maria will be 24 she'll be on the way out and Williams are on their way to be Navratilova on their theirties while they can't beat Henin on their late twenties ,
GOOD POINT ,

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 06:45 PM
and yes Venus is better than Graf ,
ANOTHER GOOD POINT ,

matty
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:02 PM
I have no doubt that Sharapova can dominate in the future so long as she stays healthy. She is a very intelligent, strong, determined women -- being the best is what she has been working for since she was a little girl. It's in her blood.

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:05 PM
lol...did i say she was greater than graf? I said she was a greater athlete.... Venus doesnt have the all around game to be the greatest, I am not delusional on that point whereas others on this board and especially in this thread seem to think there favs are by far the best players ever they've just had some "bad luck" with injuries....

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:12 PM
lol...did i say she was greater than graf? I said she was a greater athlete.... Venus doesnt have the all around game to be the greatest, I am not delusional on that point whereas others on this board and especially in this thread seem to think there favs are by far the best players ever they've just had some "bad luck" with injuries....

these "others on this board" havent said that maria will be the greatest ever.
I said its possible that maria will dominate soon. u think she cant dominate?
do u think the williams will play till 32 or tsh like that? i doubt it, cuz they are nowadays injured after every 3 tourneys. if they get older it will be more worse. So why sharapova can dominate? do u think vaidisova will dominate or ivanovic? or who?

brabbit
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Maria is already having injuries too!! And isn't she younger than the Williams sisters?

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:22 PM
yes ofcours Tennistar , when Maria will be 24 she'll be on the way out and Williams are on their way to be Navratilova on their theirties while they can't beat Henin on their late twenties ,
GOOD POINT ,

when clijsters retired this year... Maria stated she didnt see herself playing longer than 25 as there were other things she wanted to do......

just like Venus has already stated she wants to play olympics in 2012 so yes i see Venus playing till shes 32...

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:23 PM
Maria is already having injuries too!! And isn't she younger than the Williams sisters?

well she had the shoulder injury last year.
Williams have a new injury after some months

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:26 PM
when clijsters retired this year... Maria stated she didnt see herself playing longer than 25 as there were other things she wanted to do......

just like Venus has already stated she wants to play olympics in 2012 so yes i see Venus playing till shes 32...

in 2000 or so her dad said that his dauhters wont play longer than 24.. they are about 27 and still playing.
statements always change...

spiritedenergy
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:32 PM
she already had her peak. I can see her pulling a Davenport and winning several TII tournaments before retiring at 25 (her body will probably be worn out then).

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:32 PM
lol...did i say she was greater than graf? I said she was a greater athlete.... Venus doesnt have the all around game to be the greatest, I am not delusional on that point whereas others on this board and especially in this thread seem to think there favs are by far the best players ever they've just had some "bad luck" with injuries....

but you are on delusion not seeing that Sharapova is better than the others of her generation cause she is not your fave ,

and very delusional seeing Williams playing AND winning till 2012 cause they're your fave ,

who are those others that are better than Maria ? I'm delusional and can't see them , why don't you name them to me and why they are better than her cause I don't see them ,

and people , we are assuming she'll stay healthy , injury is another thing and we'll not enter on another discussion what if she'll get an injury , thay's a stupid question , any injured player will not play good so we'll be discussing nothing ,

ninanina19
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:33 PM
yes ofcours Tennistar , when Maria will be 24 she'll be on the way out and Williams are on their way to be Navratilova on their theirties while they can't beat Henin on their late twenties ,
GOOD POINT ,To be fair Serena is in her mid twenties. She was 25 when she faced Henin all those times.

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:38 PM
in 2000 or so her dad said that his dauhters wont play longer than 24.. they are about 27 and still playing.
statements always change...

Yes and the difference is that THat was Venus' dad saying that and venus promptly said my dads crazy im not retiring at 24.....

Sharapova her self stated i will not be around after 25.....

spiritedenergy
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:42 PM
Yes and the difference is that THat was Venus' dad saying that and venus promptly said my dads crazy im not retiring at 24.....

really? :spit:

Russianboy
Jan 5th, 2008, 07:43 PM
Yes and the difference is that THat was Venus' dad saying that and venus promptly said my dads crazy im not retiring at 24.....

Sharapova her self stated i will not be around after 25.....

ok, we'll see. I doubt she will retire ;) im really sure she will play and winning many big titles

Tennisstar86
Jan 5th, 2008, 08:00 PM
really? :spit:

she may not have said he was crazy...but thats what it translated too.....;)

Donatello
Jan 5th, 2008, 08:22 PM
For you Sharapova fans: it will be alright. In time the stability of a Sharapova will beat the occasional genius of the top 3 female tennis players at the moment.

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 6th, 2008, 01:42 PM
not really Donatello : the nature forces will stop against Henin and Williams and they'll be the same even after 3 and 5 years from now ,

spiritedenergy
Jan 6th, 2008, 01:43 PM
For you Sharapova fans: it will be alright. In time the stability of a Sharapova will beat the occasional genius of the top 3 female tennis players at the moment.

:weirdo:

LudwigDvorak
Jan 6th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Sharapova plays one good tournament at the end of last year and now she's the clear number 2???

she wasn't even that impressive...oh and fyi she didn't even win it

I read through the entire thread, but this was the post that was most concise and accurate in how I feel. Sharapova did not play that well at the YEC, pretty much no one did, and the final was one of the worst matches I saw all year. I guess because Maria took a 75 set from Justine it was amazing.

I'm not even a Maria detractor. I totally think she can win more slams, be #1 again, maybe be a dominating force for sections of time like she was in the second half of 2006.. But she isn't about to have Hingis '97 season, or Serena's 02 season.

Mikey B
Jan 6th, 2008, 02:10 PM
:weirdo:

lol! exactly!!

Michael_21
Jan 6th, 2008, 02:14 PM
if maria dominates it wont be for another 4 or 5 years yet and thats an IF she does

Volcana
Jan 6th, 2008, 02:24 PM
her obstacles are Henin and Williams , her generation players are not good as her.... Did you miss the point of the thread? Her 'generational players' aren't as good as her NOW. Just as Martina Hingis' generational players weren't as good as her in 1997. Then Venus and Serena and Henin and Clijsters improved. In fact, Myskina is actually the same generation as Hingis. Not nearly as good, but she got good enough to win slams. You can't assume those players won't improve enough to win slams. Isn't that exactly hat Henin did. Isn't that exactly what Clijsters did?

If Sharapova stays good enough to win slams, AND some of those players improve enough to win slams, what do you get? Venus' career. Or maybe Davenport's. Davenport was good enough to win slams all the way until 2005. She'd have won 2005 Wimbledon against anybody but Venus.

What period in Sharapova's career so far will virtually everyone look at and say, 'she was the best'? Hasn't happened yet. And she could win six or seven slams without it ever happening.

Princeza
Jan 6th, 2008, 04:13 PM
:zzz: viva los fortune tellers

Helaena
Jan 6th, 2008, 06:26 PM
:zzz: viva los fortune tellers

i was about to post something then i read this lol :haha: :haha:

thanks for giving me a good laugh! :yeah: :lol:

Helaena
Jan 6th, 2008, 06:36 PM
ok, i believe maria has a good chance of being on top, but not "domination" in a sense, as long as venus, serena and justine are around, maria will not dominate...but i am not saying also that if the big 3 will be gone then she will take over the WTA...we also have to consider other players out there, new up and comers now, maybe a little older or younger than her...they can step up, improve and challenge maria in the top spot... one can never tell just as much as no one ever thought a petite girl like justine can dominate such power players of today...or the two black siters serena and venus would dominate the tour together...only time will tell....

all we can do is sit back, relax and watch things unfold... ;)

kinglear
Jan 6th, 2008, 06:52 PM
Um...the only other player who even consistently reaches the SF round is Justine. Ivanovic, Vaidisova and the others aren't even safe bets for the quarters quite yet. Sharapova won two slams before her 20th birthday, beating the best two players of the current generation in the two finals. That's really impressive, I'd say.

Yes, it's very impressive but if she does win more Slams, I think they will be spread out. She's not one of those players who will win back-to-back Slams. Who knows, Sharapova might shock me and win the French Open someday. :)

Matt01
Jan 6th, 2008, 08:37 PM
I read through the entire thread, but this was the post that was most concise and accurate in how I feel. Sharapova did not play that well at the YEC, pretty much no one did, and the final was one of the worst matches I saw all year.


Then you probably haven't see many matches last year :tape:

Expat
Jan 6th, 2008, 09:43 PM
Then you probably haven't see many matches last year :tape:
true go no further than the sveta chaky semi in us open
horrible display from no 2 and no 5 players for a place in the final

Tennisstar86
Jan 6th, 2008, 09:47 PM
true go no further than the sveta chaky semi in us open
horrible display from no 2 and no 5 players for a place in the final

so true.....:tape:

another one of my favs was the sharapova clijsters AO semi...

goldenlox
Jan 22nd, 2008, 12:29 PM
Sharapova plays as well as anyone on the tour.
It's just a matter of who's in form for what major.
And whether or not Maria wins her 3rd major here, at age 20, 10+ majors is very doable for her.

@Sweet Cleopatra
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:48 PM
It's time the new generation rises

NeoZod19
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:52 PM
yes, it's time!!!! she would have won much more already if she had additional coaching staff to Michael Joyce and her dad!!

Il Primo!
Jan 22nd, 2008, 09:56 PM
Yes, it's very impressive but if she does win more Slams, I think they will be spread out. She's not one of those players who will win back-to-back Slams. Who knows, Sharapova might shock me and win the French Open someday. :)

Who wins back to back slams these days? Nobody. The last to do so is Hénin and it was 4 years ago. I do think Williams/Hénin/Pova are too close to be dominated by each other; slams are locked and gonna turn between each other.