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Aaron.
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:07 AM
Everyone is saying shes gonna enter the top 5 next year?

This girl had 3 good weeks and people are acting like shes gonna be multiple grand slam champion

I like her but isnt it a bit early to be saying shes gonna be entering the top 5?

Anna-Lena Groenefeld is a good example she made the QF of Roland Garros in 2006 and now shes losing in 25k Challengers

so why is this girl hyped so much?

ninanina19
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:10 AM
I don't think she'll be top 5, maybe top 10. But I mean she 20 with only good 2nd half of the year results so she'll def. rise up quite a few spots.

VeeJJ
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Everyone is saying shes gonna enter the top 5 next year?

This girl had 3 good weeks and people are acting like shes gonna be multiple grand slam champion

I like her but isnt it a bit early to be saying shes gonna be entering the top 5?

Anna-Lena Groenefeld is a good example she made the QF of Roland Garros in 2006 and now shes losing in 25k Challengers

so why is this girl hyped so much?

I totally agree, it's not even that she is so great people just say that cause she made a quarter final apperance at the U.S. Open which was a total fluke because there was like no one in the bottom half of the draw and she barely beat Jankovic in bejing. She better have a great 2008 for me to say she's top five material.:confused:

cellophane
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:29 AM
I usually think you are the Polish supergrunt, but I have to agree here.

Natash.
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:30 AM
Well, I'm more impressed with the way she plays but it's your opinion. I don't know if she's going to reach top 5 or not but she's fun to watch.

njnetswill
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:50 AM
We are all sick of Henin, Sharapova, and the Williams sisters. New blood is like crystal meth. :bounce:

azza
Nov 30th, 2007, 06:22 AM
Everyone is saying shes gonna enter the top 5 next year?

This girl had 3 good weeks and people are acting like shes gonna be multiple grand slam champion

I like her but isnt it a bit early to be saying shes gonna be entering the top 5?

Anna-Lena Groenefeld is a good example she made the QF of Roland Garros in 2006 and now shes losing in 25k Challengers

so why is this girl hyped so much?

Umm mate youvbe been here long enough to know that 90% of wtaworld( not including me obviously coz i have this thing called realism ) when a player has a week or two or even multiple weeks of good play
there like

ZOMG TOP 10 OMG MOVED 29478204820482 PLACES IN ONE YEAR WILL REACH NUMBER 1 END OF 08

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Harvs
Nov 30th, 2007, 06:34 AM
the thing is that she played like a top 5 player in those five tournies. so of course her fans are gonna get excited, nothing wrong with that..

tennisbear7
Nov 30th, 2007, 06:45 AM
I don't think she has top five potential. She doesn't really have a big weapon, and she doesn't really have the superb court craft either. She does everything well, but nothing stands out. She's a good mover, has a slightly weak, loopy forehand, solid backhand and effective serve. No Jankovic-backhand, no Ivanovic forhand... yeh, you get the point.

evan2907
Nov 30th, 2007, 06:50 AM
Cause she doesn't look like most of the young players who are Sharapova's clones. Her game is already most developed that all the girls of her age. So she can improve faster. She's also more mature.

OsloErik
Nov 30th, 2007, 07:22 AM
Because of a couple key things: she had a wildfire last two thirds of the year (better than ALG in '05, so the comparison is a little off), she has a very balanced game at the baseline, she apparently has great nerves, and her attitude is far better than most people her age.

From Budapest through today, her win-loss record was 45-8, with two Tour titles and one ITF title. She improved 139 ranking spots in about 3 1/2 months. That's impressive stuff.

She plays a very, very mature game, especially for someone whose specialty is not hardcourts. I haven't seen her on clay yet, but she was the dominant Junior clay player from her age group (which includes, incidentally, FO semifinalist Nicole Vaidisova), and if her ability on hardcourts is any indication, she's very good on clay. Her serve is quite effective, solid, doesn't breakdown, and can move to the basic positions without being obvious. It's not winning her tons of cheap points (aces, service winners) but it sets her up very well. She moves fluidly and smartly, and knows where to stand to hit the ball. Her backhand is very much Evert-like. It isn't a super powerful shot, but she places it very, very well to all portions of the court, and it doesn't breakdown. AND she can let it fly when the time is right. She knows how to apply pressure without overdoing it, and she mixes up the type of backhand she hits; Kuznetsova said after New Haven that she was surprised at how many different variations on the crosscourt backhand she had to face. Her forehand is weaker and loopier, but I've been told on good authority that it's because it's designed for clay. She's a creature of clay; but if her forehand doesn't break down (which I haven't seen yet) and someone like Mauresmo can reach number one with HER forehand, I don't see how Szavay's is a huge liability.

There isn't enough match history to prove this, but her nerves and attitude towards tennis are equally impressive. I hate to do it, but compare how Szavay handled Beijing to the way Vaidisova handles just about everything. Szavay saved a match point with a 2nd serve ace. Vaidisova has a better serve, but she couldn't save a match point if her life depended on it. Szavay has a very, very good head on her shoulders, and she has a very pleasant attitude about the sport. She enjoys it, just like Ivanovic and Jankovic do, but she doesn't get as carried away emotionally. She's clearly having a good time on court, but she's not letting it affect her game. There's a maturity there that I wasn't expecting to find in a tennis player that young. That's why the hype is there.

That all said, I think it's premature to declare her a multi-slam, #1, GOAT-level player. First, she hasn't even played a full WTA season yet. 2nd, she's got a funky back. And 3rd, she's 18. She's got another year to really make an impact before it becomes imperative (look at the numbers; the only multi-slam champion of the past 20 years to make it without reaching a slam semifinal in their teens is Davenport).

So let's all hold off a bit and enjoy the off season!

esquímaux
Nov 30th, 2007, 07:41 AM
Cuz sheez h@wt :p

DimaDinosaur
Nov 30th, 2007, 07:42 AM
Because Szavay defeated Hantuchova this year

ViennaCalling
Nov 30th, 2007, 07:46 AM
Tamira will crush her anyway :p





When her serve is on ... :lol:

mankind
Nov 30th, 2007, 07:48 AM
Hotness.
Goodness at tennis.
The usual, you know.

Jakeev
Nov 30th, 2007, 07:59 AM
I don't know what Szavay people have been watching but Agnes' backhand is HUGE. An absolute beautiful shot. Very solid technique and she can do a lot of different things with it.

She has great presense on court that is what I really like about her. Time will tell where she will be this time next year.

Sammy 4 eva!!!
Nov 30th, 2007, 08:22 AM
Because she has the game!

Dexter
Nov 30th, 2007, 08:25 AM
I usually think you are the Polish supergrunt, but I have to agree here.He doesn't even speak Polish, so please leave Poland alone. Thanks. :)

justine schnyder
Nov 30th, 2007, 10:03 AM
Everyone is saying shes gonna enter the top 5 next year?

This girl had 3 good weeks and people are acting like shes gonna be multiple grand slam champion

I like her but isnt it a bit early to be saying shes gonna be entering the top 5?

Anna-Lena Groenefeld is a good example she made the QF of Roland Garros in 2006 and now shes losing in 25k Challengers

so why is this girl hyped so much?

Agree.
Yeah, she has great game, but now the players know her, they know what to do against her, Justlike Kuzzy, in new Haven Szavay was supposed to win, but in USO Kuzzy knew exactly what to do.


BTW, I don't know why I don't like her :shrug:

Tennace
Nov 30th, 2007, 10:13 AM
Vaidisova has a better serve, but she couldn't save a match point if her life depended on it.

Do you even follow Nicole at all? She has saves match points a lot, and a couple times she has come back to win.

attis765
Nov 30th, 2007, 10:24 AM
Tamira will crush her anyway :p





When her serve is on ... :lol:


:lol: I'm sorry,but I don't see that happening :lol:

DutchieGirl
Nov 30th, 2007, 10:33 AM
Maybe because she was playing very well at the end of the year. Besides, it's not like she's the only player to get hyped up around here - read GM and most of the threads are hyping someone. ;)

Freakan
Nov 30th, 2007, 11:01 AM
He doesn't even speak Polish, so please leave Poland alone. Thanks. :)

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9245756&postcount=226

:tape: :lol: :lol: :help:

Langers
Nov 30th, 2007, 11:05 AM
Everyone is saying shes gonna enter the top 5 next year?

This girl had 3 good weeks and people are acting like shes gonna be multiple grand slam champion

I like her but isnt it a bit early to be saying shes gonna be entering the top 5?

Anna-Lena Groenefeld is a good example she made the QF of Roland Garros in 2006 and now shes losing in 25k Challengers

so why is this girl hyped so much?
She's average, no way top 10.

serena_venus4eva
Nov 30th, 2007, 11:06 AM
lool

Pasta-Na
Nov 30th, 2007, 12:02 PM
her bh is huge sometimes and good serve. can be in top 10, but doubt in top 5 :p

tiptop
Nov 30th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Because of a couple key things: she had a wildfire last two thirds of the year (better than ALG in '05, so the comparison is a little off), she has a very balanced game at the baseline, she apparently has great nerves, and her attitude is far better than most people her age.

From Budapest through today, her win-loss record was 45-8, with two Tour titles and one ITF title. She improved 139 ranking spots in about 3 1/2 months. That's impressive stuff.

She plays a very, very mature game, especially for someone whose specialty is not hardcourts. I haven't seen her on clay yet, but she was the dominant Junior clay player from her age group (which includes, incidentally, FO semifinalist Nicole Vaidisova), and if her ability on hardcourts is any indication, she's very good on clay. Her serve is quite effective, solid, doesn't breakdown, and can move to the basic positions without being obvious. It's not winning her tons of cheap points (aces, service winners) but it sets her up very well. She moves fluidly and smartly, and knows where to stand to hit the ball. Her backhand is very much Evert-like. It isn't a super powerful shot, but she places it very, very well to all portions of the court, and it doesn't breakdown. AND she can let it fly when the time is right. She knows how to apply pressure without overdoing it, and she mixes up the type of backhand she hits; Kuznetsova said after New Haven that she was surprised at how many different variations on the crosscourt backhand she had to face. Her forehand is weaker and loopier, but I've been told on good authority that it's because it's designed for clay. She's a creature of clay; but if her forehand doesn't break down (which I haven't seen yet) and someone like Mauresmo can reach number one with HER forehand, I don't see how Szavay's is a huge liability.

There isn't enough match history to prove this, but her nerves and attitude towards tennis are equally impressive. I hate to do it, but compare how Szavay handled Beijing to the way Vaidisova handles just about everything. Szavay saved a match point with a 2nd serve ace. Vaidisova has a better serve, but she couldn't save a match point if her life depended on it. Szavay has a very, very good head on her shoulders, and she has a very pleasant attitude about the sport. She enjoys it, just like Ivanovic and Jankovic do, but she doesn't get as carried away emotionally. She's clearly having a good time on court, but she's not letting it affect her game. There's a maturity there that I wasn't expecting to find in a tennis player that young. That's why the hype is there.

That all said, I think it's premature to declare her a multi-slam, #1, GOAT-level player. First, she hasn't even played a full WTA season yet. 2nd, she's got a funky back. And 3rd, she's 18. She's got another year to really make an impact before it becomes imperative (look at the numbers; the only multi-slam champion of the past 20 years to make it without reaching a slam semifinal in their teens is Davenport).

So let's all hold off a bit and enjoy the off season!

Spot on. One of the best post I have come across on this board in a long, long time. :) I haven't seen her playing on clay either, but she has fantastic abilities for clay court tennis imo. People will laugh, but imo she even has the game to threaten Henin on clay one day like Petrova did it for a short time in 2006. Time will tell what she can achieve, but I'm already in love with that backhand.

Mileen
Nov 30th, 2007, 12:58 PM
Coincidentally, there's just been an article on her on the wtatour site. Here are the reasons why she is perceived as a prospect (I wouldn't call it being "hyped"):

http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/3/newsroom/stories/?ContentID=1905

Fired
Nov 30th, 2007, 01:29 PM
She's hawt and people trend to hype all the good looking players. Anyway, I'm sure she's going to fulfill all the hype with good results but she has first to establish herself as a solid top20 player.

Aaron.
Nov 30th, 2007, 01:43 PM
I usually think you are the Polish supergrunt, but I have to agree here. :spit: How am anything like supergrunt I dont make 342343 threds a day about Serena

Aaron.
Nov 30th, 2007, 01:44 PM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9245756&postcount=226

:tape: :lol: :lol: :help: :sobbing: And actually Dexter your wrong I was learning Polish for a few months in Warsaw but since I moved back to the States no point now :shrug:

dya74
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:12 PM
because nobody was expecting her to reach top 20 at all, and she did it in a few month. anyway, I remember she defeated Schiavone 2 years ago ( in Italy!).

Pasta-Na
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:17 PM
still try to figure out how she can have a huge bh and serve when she is only 171cm and a bit skinny :o :p

Keaka
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:20 PM
Umm mate youvbe been here long enough to know that 90% of wtaworld( not including me obviously coz i have this thing called realism ) when a player has a week or two or even multiple weeks of good play
there like

ZOMG TOP 10 OMG MOVED 29478204820482 PLACES IN ONE YEAR WILL REACH NUMBER 1 END OF 08



:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:


:haha:

Pasta-Na
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:22 PM
how about yan zi? will she be in top 5 next year too? :lol:

serena_venus4eva
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:37 PM
yeah I think she'll beat henin sharapova venus and serena in every GS 6-0 6-0 :lol:

cellophane
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:21 PM
He doesn't even speak Polish, so please leave Poland alone. Thanks. :)

Huh? Defensive much? Anyway, I wasn't sure if he was Polish or not 100 percent, but I've seen him speak Polish, so that's why I leaned toward yes.

cellophane
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:26 PM
:spit: How am anything like supergrunt I dont make 342343 threds a day about Serena

You really don't want an explanation, 'k? Okay, since you asked for it... 80 % of your posts are retarded, no offence.

cellophane
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:32 PM
how about yan zi? will she be in top 5 next year too? :lol:

Probably not. :p But she has a lot of talent...

Dexter
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:47 PM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9245756&postcount=226

:tape: :lol: :lol: :help::haha: :bigcry:

sunsfuns
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:47 PM
still try to figure out how she can have a huge bh and serve when she is only 171cm and a bit skinny :o :p

Justine is even smaller, no?

Anyway if we are going to have any new top 10 players next year at all, then it will be her and/or Golovin. I don't see any other viable candidates at the momement...

Dexter
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:48 PM
Huh? Defensive much? Anyway, I wasn't sure if he was Polish or not 100 percent, but I've seen him speak Polish, so that's why I leaned toward yes.Let me guess. You don't speak Polish either, do you?

dybbuk
Nov 30th, 2007, 03:54 PM
how about yan zi? will she be in top 5 next year too? :lol:

Do you have to talk about Chinese players in every thread? :help:

cellophane
Nov 30th, 2007, 04:04 PM
Let me guess. You don't speak Polish either, do you?

No, I don't, but I know what Polish looks like. I'm still not sure why you are acting like I personally insulted you / this has something to do with you though. :shrug:

Dexter
Nov 30th, 2007, 04:14 PM
No, I don't, but I know what Polish looks like. I'm still not sure why you are acting like I personally insulted you / this has something to do with you though. :shrug:Too bad then.

Bingain
Nov 30th, 2007, 04:49 PM
I really like OsloErik's comments. Offers a lot of observations and insights.

I also like her game and, when I watched her USO matches, was amazed by how much she had to offer. Nevertheless, how far upward she can move to is still too early to tell, that I think is a consensus.

dybbuk
Nov 30th, 2007, 05:04 PM
I totally agree, it's not even that she is so great people just say that cause she made a quarter final apperance at the U.S. Open which was a total fluke because there was like no one in the bottom half of the draw and she barely beat Jankovic in bejing. She better have a great 2008 for me to say she's top five material.:confused:

Well Jankovic is third in the world, so a win over her, whether it be 6-0 6-0 or close I would say is a good win. :shrug:

Pasta-Na
Nov 30th, 2007, 05:43 PM
Well Jankovic is third in the world, so a win over her, whether it be 6-0 6-0 or close I would say is a good win. :shrug:

yan zi can do it :p

frenchie
Nov 30th, 2007, 06:24 PM
I'm very impressed by her game too!
I can't see any obvious weeknesses and she's very smart around the court just like Nastya is (or was!!)

Matt01
Nov 30th, 2007, 08:59 PM
Why is Szavay hyped up so much?


Why are Aaron's threads always so stupid?

No Name Face
Nov 30th, 2007, 11:13 PM
is this the one with the weird grunt? or is that azarenka? or radwanska? i get all these broads mixed up.

Renalicious
Dec 1st, 2007, 01:51 AM
I <3 Szavay :D

DutchieGirl
Dec 1st, 2007, 04:12 AM
is this the one with the weird grunt? or is that azarenka? or radwanska? i get all these broads mixed up.

:spit: No! It's not! Azarenka has a "Sharapova like" "grunt" (scream) - I don't recall Radwanska grunting at all, although I haven't seen her for nearly a year now, so maybe she picked on up?

Agi has never grunted when I've seen her play.

Junex
Dec 1st, 2007, 04:56 AM
If there is anyone in the current top 20 who can breakthrough in the top 10 or top 5 it would be szavay....

jankovic would fall out of the top 5,
so is ivanovic
and kuzzy....

Next years YE top 5 will be:

Justine
Sharapova
a Williams
Vaidisova
Szavay


btw, Sesil will reach Top 20.....

Slumpsova
Dec 1st, 2007, 05:24 AM
her 3 good weeks are almost better than the whole year of Kuznetsova :tape:

Aaron.
Dec 1st, 2007, 07:25 AM
her 3 good weeks are almost better than the whole year of Kuznetsova :tape: :tape:

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:28 AM
her 3 good weeks are almost better than the whole year of Kuznetsova :tape:

I'm assuming you're talking about New Haven, US Open, and Beijing? Well, seeing as Kuznetsova beat her in two of those tournaments, and didn't play the third, I'm not sure how you can really say that. But the point is taken, her rise has been very, very fast.

Harvs
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:31 AM
If there is anyone in the current top 20 who can breakthrough in the top 10 or top 5 it would be szavay....

jankovic would fall out of the top 5,
so is ivanovic
and kuzzy....

Next years YE top 5 will be:

Justine
Sharapova
a Williams
Vaidisova
Szavay


btw, Sesil will reach Top 20.....

lol funny how most the people u mentioned just happen to be some of ur faves...

i completely disagree:):):)

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:35 AM
If there is anyone in the current top 20 who can breakthrough in the top 10 or top 5 it would be szavay....

jankovic would fall out of the top 5,
so is ivanovic
and kuzzy....

I agree that Szavay is among the hottest prospects for a breakthrough from the top 20 (along with Golovin and possible Vaidisova) I'm not sure that we'll see three players fall out of the top 5. I can imaging Jankovic falling (which is too bad, I kind of like her), but I don't see Kuznetsova slipping out the top 5. She's more consistent on every surface (barring indoors) than anyone on tour except Henin. She's top 3 on clay, top 5 on hardcourts, top 10 on grass...she's not going to slip substantially unless she gets injured. Ivanovic too. She's got sections of the year with big points to defend, but has just as many sections (early season, US Open and after) without nearly as many. I doubt the top 5 is going to change substantially; the order will certainly shift around, but the actual members?

That said, I expect (and kind of hope, I won't deny I really like Kuznetsova) that next years top 5 will be Henin, Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Ivanovic, and Venus Williams, with the next five being a mix of around ten possibilities: Serena, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Demenetieva, Vaidisova, Golovin, Szavay, Mauresmo, Hantuchova, and Davenport (big wild card).

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:40 AM
still try to figure out how she can have a huge bh and serve when she is only 171cm and a bit skinny :o :p

May I ask what you're trying to imply? Because if it is what I think it is, your just a jealous, bitter person.

More realistically, she's a better tennis player than (your short skinny favorites) most other players, with better timing, work ethic, and ability.

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:43 AM
how about yan zi? will she be in top 5 next year too? :lol:

Clearly not, she hasn't done anything impressive this year, and if you want to talk about your favorite players (incidentally, Szavay is about three tournaments away from passing Li Na's career high ranking), open your own thread. You clearly read English well enough to understand that this thread has SZAVAY in the title, not Li, or Zi, or Yan, or anyone else. So if your aren't going to compare them to Szavay, you really are wasting your time, and spamming the thread.

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:54 AM
Do you even follow Nicole at all? She has saves match points a lot, and a couple times she has come back to win.

Not particularly, because every time I see her play she's either:
a.) acting like a spoilt brat on court (passion is great and all, but really? is that necessary?)
b.) looking at her step-father like she can't think on her own
c.) playing like she can't think on her own
or d.) blowing enormous leads.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disrespect her game at all. She's got the most fluid serve on tour at the moment, best motion I've ever seen. But she's simply not my cup of tea. And I'm sure she's saved plenty of match points, but I've seen her throw away VERY winnable matches too often to really think of her as an elite or future elite player just yet.

Against Ivanovic at Wimbledon, against Peer at the US Open, against Kuznetsova at Indian Wells (and the French in '06, of course), the list goes on. So that's my point. She's certainly more accomplished than Szavay, but she's also got a couple eyebrow raising issues that we haven't seen from Agnes just yet. Maybe we will, or maybe Vaidisova will settle down a little, but at the moment, I'm more positive about Agnes than Vaidisova as a player to watch.

Pasta-Na
Dec 1st, 2007, 09:00 AM
Clearly not, she hasn't done anything impressive this year, and if you want to talk about your favorite players (incidentally, Szavay is about three tournaments away from passing Li Na's career high ranking), open your own thread. You clearly read English well enough to understand that this thread has SZAVAY in the title, not Li, or Zi, or Yan, or anyone else. So if your aren't going to compare them to Szavay, you really are wasting your time, and spamming the thread.

u took it too seriously :o :lol:

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 09:05 AM
Just reread some of those and I sound like a grumpy old woman. Sorry about that. But I think you get my point. I hope.

Pasta-Na
Dec 1st, 2007, 09:09 AM
May I ask what you're trying to imply? Because if it is what I think it is, your just a jealous, bitter person.

More realistically, she's a better tennis player than (your short skinny favorites) most other players, with better timing, work ethic, and ability.

well, hope she will prove me wrong :p

tennisbear7
Dec 1st, 2007, 11:23 AM
Vaidisova is a headcase, but using the fact that Agnes saved a match point with a second-serve ace is weak because she was clearly out of it and thought she'd take her chances with a big serve down the T.

To be honest, I like watching Agnes play. She's a very solid player, but in terms of weapons, Vaidisova clearly has more at her disposal. If Amelie could reach number one with that forehand, then certainly Agnes could too? You're forgetting that Amelie has the atheleticism, net play and creativity which has made her so successful. I don't think Agnes has the transition game or the net play to be as successful.

I like watching Agnes more than Vaidisova, but it's clear that Vaidisova has more weapons. For Nicole, it's all about implementing them, because she can just blast forehands all day - and forehands have become the dominant shot in tennis quite obviously. Though more robotic, I see more potential within Nicole...

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 12:20 PM
Vaidisova is a headcase, but using the fact that Agnes saved a match point with a second-serve ace is weak because she was clearly out of it and thought she'd take her chances with a big serve down the T. To be honest, I like watching Agnes play. She's a very solid player, but in terms of weapons, Vaidisova clearly has more at her disposal.

My point was less about Agnes having shown incredible mental fortitude, because we simply haven't see enough of her yet, but that she hasn't shown mental frailty. We've seen that from pretty much everyone else who's under 25, Sharapova potentially the exception. I picked on Vaidisova because she's an example of a player with incredible weaponry who is simply stagnating because she cannot do anything significant with it, and the longer she has this history of choking, the less likely she is to overcome it. I personally think Vaidisova has more weapons than Sharapova, with a better serve to boot, but has a horrible attitude, and that brings her down. What I was hoping to point out is that Agnes' combination of attitude and (thus far) lack of mental issues is a winning combination, one that has the potential to carry her further than an (arguably) even more talented competitor. There's little arguing that, take away the brain, and Vaidisova is likely going to win, but I've yet to see Vaidisova really employ her arsenal effectively against anyone important in an important situation.

If Amelie could reach number one with that forehand, then certainly Agnes could too? You're forgetting that Amelie has the atheleticism, net play and creativity which has made her so successful. I don't think Agnes has the transition game or the net play to be as successful.

My point there was that Mauresmo managed to succeed on clay (if you take away everyone's French Open performances, she's probably the 2nd most accomplished active clay player) without coming to net. Mauresmo is a very, very athletic player on any surface, at net or no, but Szavay isn't exactly lumbering around court a la Davenport. Agnes' forehand hasn't proven a liability yet on faster surfaces, while Mauresmo's used to, and we haven't seen Agnes on clay yet.

I like watching Agnes more than Vaidisova, but it's clear that Vaidisova has more weapons. For Nicole, it's all about implementing them, because she can just blast forehands all day - and forehands have become the dominant shot in tennis quite obviously. Though more robotic, I see more potential within Nicole...

As do I, and I agree that Vaidisova has more weapons. But I do think it's telling that, when matchpoint down, Agnes hit an ace against Jankovic in the Beijing final, while Vaidisova double faulted against Ivanovic in the Wimbledon QF. I have a lot of trouble proclaiming Nicole a future #1, or even future slam contender, when she's got so many issues with her head. I wouldn't necessarily call her robotic, either. Sharapova is robotic; Borg and Evert were robotic. It's how they maintained composure. While Vaidisova has very practiced groundstrokes that can't deviate much from how she's used to hitting them, she's far from robotic in her demeanor, and that's why I don't see her being the world-beater we thought she'd be 3 (!!!) years ago.

fufuqifuqishahah
Dec 1st, 2007, 12:29 PM
If there is anyone in the current top 20 who can breakthrough in the top 10 or top 5 it would be szavay....

jankovic would fall out of the top 5,
so is ivanovic
and kuzzy....

Next years YE top 5 will be:

Justine
Sharapova
a Williams
Vaidisova
Szavay


btw, Sesil will reach Top 20.....

gawd u r hopeful arent u

seltorin
Dec 1st, 2007, 05:37 PM
I really like OsloErik's comments. Offers a lot of observations and insights.



I totally agree.

Aaron, I guess your favourite player was not in the best shape in the last few months if you open threads like this.

Pasta-Na
Dec 1st, 2007, 05:46 PM
she cant beat god level players: juju, serena, venus, kuzzy and davenport (those players has a lot of powerful weapons and games).

20 to 30% she may beat the players like ana, maria, nicole, franny and tati sometimes.

i really want to watch the match between aga and her :p

probably she will enter top 10 like #9 or #10 (as i expect she will reach some 4th or QF in G.S unless other low-ranked players improve their games a lot during the off-season) in the early of 2008, but i surely doubt she will be in top 5 in the next few years until those god level players retire.

seltorin
Dec 1st, 2007, 06:55 PM
Szavay - Shuai Peng 6-1 6-2.
This is the problem, right?

P.S.
I guess the "god level player" is Federer. Everybody else is "just" good player.

DutchieGirl
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:27 PM
Szavay - Shuai Peng 6-1 6-2.
This is the problem, right?

P.S.
I guess the "god level player" is Federer. Everybody else is "just" good player.

:lol:

tennisbear7
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:47 PM
My point was less about Agnes having shown incredible mental fortitude, because we simply haven't see enough of her yet, but that she hasn't shown mental frailty. We've seen that from pretty much everyone else who's under 25, Sharapova potentially the exception. I picked on Vaidisova because she's an example of a player with incredible weaponry who is simply stagnating because she cannot do anything significant with it, and the longer she has this history of choking, the less likely she is to overcome it. I personally think Vaidisova has more weapons than Sharapova, with a better serve to boot, but has a horrible attitude, and that brings her down. What I was hoping to point out is that Agnes' combination of attitude and (thus far) lack of mental issues is a winning combination, one that has the potential to carry her further than an (arguably) even more talented competitor. There's little arguing that, take away the brain, and Vaidisova is likely going to win, but I've yet to see Vaidisova really employ her arsenal effectively against anyone important in an important situation.



My point there was that Mauresmo managed to succeed on clay (if you take away everyone's French Open performances, she's probably the 2nd most accomplished active clay player) without coming to net. Mauresmo is a very, very athletic player on any surface, at net or no, but Szavay isn't exactly lumbering around court a la Davenport. Agnes' forehand hasn't proven a liability yet on faster surfaces, while Mauresmo's used to, and we haven't seen Agnes on clay yet.



As do I, and I agree that Vaidisova has more weapons. But I do think it's telling that, when matchpoint down, Agnes hit an ace against Jankovic in the Beijing final, while Vaidisova double faulted against Ivanovic in the Wimbledon QF. I have a lot of trouble proclaiming Nicole a future #1, or even future slam contender, when she's got so many issues with her head. I wouldn't necessarily call her robotic, either. Sharapova is robotic; Borg and Evert were robotic. It's how they maintained composure. While Vaidisova has very practiced groundstrokes that can't deviate much from how she's used to hitting them, she's far from robotic in her demeanor, and that's why I don't see her being the world-beater we thought she'd be 3 (!!!) years ago.

I don't see Nicole as a future world number one either. She has too many issues with her head, but couldn't the same be said of Mauresmo pre-YEC 2005? Nicole has incredible weaponry yet she can never screw on her head right, whereas Agnes, while possessing fewer weapons, can move the ball around and won't let things get to her head i.e. she's not about to threaten ball kids anytime soon. That's promising, though in terms of intensity, she's not the most intense player and we haven't really seen her fighting qualities yet apart from the Beijing match. I wouldn't hype up her mental powers that much yet, because Seles/Sharapova/Hingis at 18 had played more big matches and shown more indomitable will - Agnes just hasn't gotten to this stage yet. Yes, it's good that she's calm and composed, but sometimes you need that fire to go that extra step.

I think there are better examples of Agnes having mental fortitude, though, apart from that second-serve ace in Beijing against Jankovic. She was smiling - she went for broke and was lucky she didn't double fault on match point. Jankovic is another headcase... but let's not get into that.

Agnes straddles that line between not being quite a big groundstroke producer and a crafty player. She's definitely like Anna Chak, but I would consider AnnaC slightly more craftier. Both can't volley to save their lives, but that might change in the future. Agnes moves really fluidly, not as quick as Henin or Jankovic, but she anticipates well and she doesn't seem to get tired. One qualm I have with her health is that she's got a dodgy back, so that might put her back quite a bit.

I don't see Agnes beating the Williams, Henin or Sharapova anytime soon; no matter how solid you are, it seems like you've got to have really good weaponry to beat these players. 2008 will be good to Agnes.

Pasta-Na
Dec 1st, 2007, 08:56 PM
Szavay - Shuai Peng 6-1 6-2.
This is the problem, right?

P.S.
I guess the "god level player" is Federer. Everybody else is "just" good player.

shuai peng said she ran out of gas after that long match against momo :p she implied szavay didnt have a tough draw like hers :p but pls dont be a peng peng's hater :) she is someone lovely and kind :hearts: shuai said she hopes she will play szavay next year.

And she didnt want to tell the media how she can have a big bh and serve with her physical limit. those media really made me (around 20%) thinking something not very nice about her :p

p.s: federer is like on the downhill for me :sad: watched most of his matches of shanghai masters. he seem getting older and hit the balls without much strength, also a lot of UEs. i think he really have to win more G.S in 2 years if he wants to be the greater in meng tennis history. And pls pls dont bad rep me :haha:

pengluv
Dec 1st, 2007, 09:24 PM
man quit overhypin agnes before she ends up like a peng

Pasta-Na
Dec 1st, 2007, 09:27 PM
i would say lets szavay plays shuai and jj again next year, if she wins again when they are totally at their best forms (not like the end of this season), then she can be pierce0415's gf, j/k :p

seltorin
Dec 1st, 2007, 09:53 PM
I don't hate Peng. I don't have any problem with her at all.
You are the one who has problem with Ági since Beijing if I remember.

(By the way I saw Shuai against Szavay. Her tiredness doesn't explain her performance.)

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 11:01 PM
I don't see Nicole as a future world number one either. She has too many issues with her head, but couldn't the same be said of Mauresmo pre-YEC 2005?

I know it was said that Mauresmo didn't have her head screwed on right, but I always felt it was her body that let her down (outside of Roland Garros), or else she simple wasn't the best player in the world; I really do think if she had been healthy, she could have won Wimbledon or the Aussie in '03, and WOULD have won the Aussie in '04. She was playing leagues better than anyone that tournament until she got injured. At Wimbledon in '02 and '04, I'd say she was simply playing Serena Williams, who is better at fighting than 99% of players are at holding serve.

I wouldn't hype up her mental powers that much yet, because Seles/Sharapova/Hingis at 18 had played more big matches and shown more indomitable will - Agnes just hasn't gotten to this stage yet. Yes, it's good that she's calm and composed, but sometimes you need that fire to go that extra step.

I think we agree here; I'm more pointing out that she hasn't shown any mental weakness than that she's exhibited a strong pattern of mental strength, which is better than most players can say.

I think there are better examples of Agnes having mental fortitude, though, apart from that second-serve ace in Beijing against Jankovic. She was smiling - she went for broke and was lucky she didn't double fault on match point. Jankovic is another headcase... but let's not get into that.

I'd agree with this as well; while it certainly speaks well of her general technique that she didn't double fault, it wasn't exactly the most likely of results. I'd say the USO 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds were better examples; she was neck and neck with all three girls for almost the whole time and served out each time.

I don't see Agnes beating the Williams, Henin or Sharapova anytime soon; no matter how solid you are, it seems like you've got to have really good weaponry to beat these players. 2008 will be good to Agnes.

I'm curious how she fares against all of them on clay, simply because I haven't seen her play on clay since she was 15. And I agree, 2008 will be good for Agnes.

esquímaux
Dec 1st, 2007, 11:09 PM
http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/3/global/library/200x250/szavay%2007bg%20blog%20200.jpg
She looks like Cassandra Nova :lol::devil:

OsloErik
Dec 1st, 2007, 11:10 PM
lets szavay plays shuai and jj again next year

Umm...that's like comparing apples and wolverines. Shuai isn't an elite player. Jankovic is. Beating Jankovic is an achievement regardless of how she is, and if Shuai is that exhausted by a three setter, it's no surprise she hasn't done anything since that Clijsters win.

I know it's upsetting that Szavay won the Chinese national tournament (it is the highest level tournament in China, correct? At least until the Olympics in 6 months), but to imply there's something unnatural about a 5'7'' woman having a big backhand is just downright irresponsible journalism. Chris Evert was 5'6'', Henin is 5'5'', hell, Na Li is only an inch taller and she has enormous groundstrokes (which unfortunately don't go in as often as they should).

I remember the last time a waning Communist country got obsessed with Olympic gold medals; do you remember hearing about the East German women's swim team? So let's not start throwing around suspicions like that on the eve of the Olympics, because I'd hate to see a country of 1.3 billion people disgraced by something as awful as that.

Vefci Y
Dec 1st, 2007, 11:19 PM
shuai peng said she ran out of gas after that long match against momo :p she implied szavay didnt have a tough draw like hers :p but pls dont be a peng peng's hater :) she is someone lovely and kind :hearts: shuai said she hopes she will play szavay next year.

And she didnt want to tell the media how she can have a big bh and serve with her physical limit. those media really made me (around 20%) thinking something not very nice about her :p

p.s: federer is like on the downhill for me :sad: watched most of his matches of shanghai masters. he seem getting older and hit the balls without much strength, also a lot of UEs. i think he really have to win more G.S in 2 years if he wants to be the greater in meng tennis history. And pls pls dont bad rep me :haha:

This a rescue,Peng was destroyed by Szavay in China

DutchieGirl
Dec 2nd, 2007, 02:31 AM
Agnes straddles that line between not being quite a big groundstroke producer and a crafty player. She's definitely like Anna Chak, but I would consider AnnaC slightly more craftier. Both can't volley to save their lives, but that might change in the future.

I'm sorry but WHAT? Have you seen her play doubles ever? (Agnes I mean, not Chaky).

clonesheep
Dec 2nd, 2007, 02:46 PM
Agi is not overhyped. She is special. Her game is very well balanced. Except for her inexperience playing at net, she has no weakness. Serve is good. Groundstrokes good both hands. Footwork is good. Fitness is good. Mental aspect is improving.

But should I say she is also hot! Look at this video if you haven't seen Agi off court (she is cool on-court, too).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmDsxSKyiyo

Sally Todd
Dec 2nd, 2007, 06:16 PM
Why is she hyped? Because she should be.

Szavay has a versatile game, she doesn't just whack the ball like Groenefeld. That comparison is bogus. Just because they both have blonde hair doesn't mean they play at all alike.

I say Agi is going top 10 this year, and a few years from now she might be top 3 and winning slams.

Pheobo
Dec 3rd, 2007, 12:03 AM
Everyone seems pretty anxious to get a new top 5 player because the current top women are so boring, bar jankovic.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Dec 3rd, 2007, 06:40 AM
Hall of Fame material

mboyle
Dec 3rd, 2007, 07:06 AM
(look at the numbers; the only multi-slam champion of the past 20 years to make it without reaching a slam semifinal in their teens is Davenport).!

Davenport made the Oz Open semi-finals as an 18 year old.

mboyle
Dec 3rd, 2007, 07:13 AM
Agi is not overhyped. She is special. Her game is very well balanced. Except for her inexperience playing at net, she has no weakness. Serve is good. Groundstrokes good both hands. Footwork is good. Fitness is good. Mental aspect is improving.

But should I say she is also hot! Look at this video if you haven't seen Agi off court (she is cool on-court, too).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmDsxSKyiyo

She is hot. Her game is solid. She doesn't have many glaring weaknesses. Trouble is, solid doesn't win grand slams. It's better to have many strengths and many weaknesses than to be solid. Serena Williams has many strengths and many glaring weaknesses (work ethic, fitness, patience.) Sharapova has many strengths and weaknesses (speed, serve consistency, proneness to injury.) Both are multiple slam champions. Maria Kirilenko is solid with few weaknesses. She isn't even top twenty (though she once was.)

Martina Hingis was the last solid player to win majors--almost nine years ago, and Hingis had a brain for tennis that no one else before or since has shown. Szvavay has shown a good head and probably solid top twenty potential. However, if we're betting between her and Vaidisova for slam winning potential, I'd go with Vaidisova's big serves and groundstrokes (not to mention better track record at the same age) over Szavay's solid everything, even though Nicole is mentally weak and error prone. Henin, an all time great, struggled with her mentality until she was 20 or 21 years old. It's much harder to turn a shot into a weapon than to gain composure and learn to close out matches.

mboyle
Dec 3rd, 2007, 07:18 AM
Not particularly, because every time I see her play she's either:
a.) acting like a spoilt brat on court (passion is great and all, but really? is that necessary?)
b.) looking at her step-father like she can't think on her own
c.) playing like she can't think on her own
or d.) blowing enormous leads.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disrespect her game at all. She's got the most fluid serve on tour at the moment, best motion I've ever seen. But she's simply not my cup of tea. And I'm sure she's saved plenty of match points, but I've seen her throw away VERY winnable matches too often to really think of her as an elite or future elite player just yet.

Against Ivanovic at Wimbledon, against Peer at the US Open, against Kuznetsova at Indian Wells (and the French in '06, of course), the list goes on. So that's my point. She's certainly more accomplished than Szavay, but she's also got a couple eyebrow raising issues that we haven't seen from Agnes just yet. Maybe we will, or maybe Vaidisova will settle down a little, but at the moment, I'm more positive about Agnes than Vaidisova as a player to watch.

Nicole was known as a pretty solid player, mentally, before the French 2006. Agnes hasn't really had the opportunity to choke away a match against a top player. Jankovic handed her the third set because she's Jankovic. I don't think she has enough game to even get to the stages where Vaidisova is choking her leads.

mboyle
Dec 3rd, 2007, 07:20 AM
Justine is even smaller, no?

Anyway if we are going to have any new top 10 players next year at all, then it will be her and/or Golovin. I don't see any other viable candidates at the momement...

Vaidisova was 8th this year in points per tournament. She was injured. If she stays injury free, she's almost certainly going to re enter the top ten. Golovin has more game than Szavay and is in a better position. Few predicted Maria's rise from 32 to 4 in a year. Szavay's ranking is due to consistency. Golovin's is due to very impressive upsets over top players all in a row post US Open. Consistency is easier to learn than the power and hutzpah needed to beat top players.

faboozadoo15
Dec 3rd, 2007, 07:32 AM
Well maybe she isn't going to be in the top 5 within the next year, but the girl is a phenominal talent. She plays mature tennis, and to those who say she doesn't have any big weapons, her backhand is one to watch as well as her first serve.

Sally Todd
Dec 4th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Here are a handful of reasons why Szavay is going to be around the top soon, and staying there awhile.

HER BACKHAND: She was beating Jankovic in backhand exchanges at Beijing. I know Jelena was tired, but that is not triflin'! :worship: The only other young or rising player I've seen be that strong on the backhand side in 07 was Paszek against Henin at Roland Garros. But at the moment Agi is in much better shape than Tamira, and has a more well-rounded game, if not such obvious weaponry.

SHE HAS NET ABILITIES: I haven't seen a younger player this interested in finishing off points at the net in a long time. :D Henin and Mauresmo do it, and Hingis used to. Agi doesn't have Henin's speed or reflexes, but she does have Mauresmo's strength and height, and might be on her way to developing similar touch. She's still a beginner in this regard -- but keep an eye out.

SHE'S CONSISTENT: Again, Agi recently outrallied the queen of long rallies, Jankovic. Yes, her forehand, while reliable, is loopy. But so is Mauresmo's, and Amelie has had a long and great career. When Agi is dialed in, she's consistent in a manner that a lot of her contemporaries who have more mechanical games or more obvious strengths/weaknesses aren't. I love Agi and Venus, but my fave player on tour is Safarova and I wish Lucie would gain some of Agi's tactical consistency and mental toughness. Speaking of...

MENTAL TOUGHNESS: There's a poll about this right now. Strictly results-wise, in the second half of '07 Agi demonstrated an ability to win three-setters and repeatedly close out the clutch moments of tough sets. Maybe more importantly, when I've seen her play, Agi seems loose and free in her demeanor on court in a way that could really pay dividends. She isn't locked in to a way of being or playing, she seems like she's out to improve and to see what she can do. :hearts:

SHE'S A NATURAL JOCK/ATHLETE AND SHE'S STILL DEVELOPING AS A PLAYER: I think Agi's still blooming as an athlete and there are a lot of areas in her game that are improving, fast. She's tall, has strength, but her stroke mechanics are relatively flexible.
It might be misleading to judge Agi against the similar-age Vaidisova's career achievements, because Vaidisova seems locked in a style of play that generates unforced errors and isn't garnering clutch wins. Vaidisova has been near the top for a long time now and doesn't seem better than she was 24 months ago. Agi was playing challengers a year ago! That's where I first saw her, losing to Harkleroad. :eek: Even then, I thought: This girl has serious flow and natural gifts.

Maybe all this is only adding too much, too soon to any hype. But I'm looking forward to watching Szavay play in '08. I think she has the ability to go top 10 before the end of the year if she stays healthy and doesn't overextend herself. She also could make serious waves at at least one if not two or three slams in terms of knocking out top 10 veterans.

But the long run is more important than the next 12 months, so I hope she continues to improve at her own pace. A LOT of the best players on tour right now are past the midpoint of their careers. ;)

sfselesfan
Dec 4th, 2007, 08:00 PM
She has a great game and deserves credit for it. Reminds me of Pierce, especially on the backhand side.

SF

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 4th, 2007, 08:07 PM
Davenport made the Oz Open semi-finals as an 18 year old.

Lindsay reached her first GS semifinal at USO-1997 as a 21 years old.

OsloErik
Dec 4th, 2007, 09:08 PM
Davenport made the Oz Open semi-finals as an 18 year old.

She reached the Aussie Open QF as a 17 year old, but didn't break through to a semifinal until she was 21 at the US Open.

Although she did reach the YEC final at 18.

OsloErik
Dec 4th, 2007, 10:05 PM
Vaidisova was 8th this year in points per tournament. She was injured. If she stays injury free, she's almost certainly going to re enter the top ten. Golovin has more game than Szavay and is in a better position. Few predicted Maria's rise from 32 to 4 in a year. Szavay's ranking is due to consistency. Golovin's is due to very impressive upsets over top players all in a row post US Open. Consistency is easier to learn than the power and hutzpah needed to beat top players.

I'm having a little trouble figuring out which of Golovin's upsets were especially impressive; I love Kuznetsova, but she's not the toughest scalp to claim, especially indoors, and Ivanovic is very up-or-down. Tati played some great stuff, and showed why she is going to be a top 10 player soon, but I don't see how her wins are indicative that she's going to outperform Szavay; she's developed a little faster (she's been in the top 50 for AGES!) but Szavay's improvement in the past three months is stunningly impressive. She beat 3 top ten players in her US Hardcourt through year end swing to Tati's 4. Given that Tati played 3 more tournaments, I don't see how the top player wins are exactly indicative.

And Szavay has a lot more to her than just consistency. She outdid Jankovic in Jelena's specialty (maneuvering that backhand all around the court and smacking winners/forcing errors down the line) and absolutely laid out her opponents with her serve from New Haven on. There's plenty to that game beyond simple consistency, and her willingness to come forward and finish off points bodes well for her success across the surfaces a la Mauresmo.

And also, I remember a fair number of people tipping Sharapova as one to watch to break the top 10 during the off season between '03 and '04. Her grass results and late season titles were a driving factor in her popularity and hype, and she surpassed most people's expectations by winning 2 of the 5 biggest events in '04. I don't think Szavay is going to win a slam in '08, but she's certainly going to come knocking hard on the door of the top 10, barring injury.

Aaron.
Jan 18th, 2009, 06:27 AM
damn I am PROPHET!!!