PDA

View Full Version : Wertheim Describes Martina Hingis' Chances For Enshrinement into the ITHF


Forehand_Volley
Nov 29th, 2007, 09:46 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/11/28/mail.bag28/1.html

Can Martina be denied the HOF based on her use of cocaine?

-- Randy Mayes, Bradford, Pa.

Not in my book. If she were cheating the competition and had tested positive for performance enhancers, it would give pause. But it's too moralistic to deny a player enshrinement because of recreational drug use. Besides, if players who'd snorted coke forfeited a chance for the Hall of Fame, suffice to say the place would be considerably smaller.

kittyking
Nov 29th, 2007, 09:51 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/11/28/mail.bag28/1.html

Can Martina be denied the HOF based on her use of cocaine?

-- Randy Mayes, Bradford, Pa.

Not in my book. If she were cheating the competition and had tested positive for performance enhancers, it would give pause. But it's too moralistic to deny a player enshrinement because of recreational drug use. Besides, if players who'd snorted coke forfeited a chance for the Hall of Fame, suffice to say the place would be considerably smaller.

Martina never took drugs, shes a tennis goddess enough said!

V-MAC
Nov 29th, 2007, 09:53 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/11/28/mail.bag28/1.html

Can Martina be denied the HOF based on her use of cocaine?

-- Randy Mayes, Bradford, Pa.

Besides, if players who'd snorted coke forfeited a chance for the Hall of Fame, suffice to say the place would be considerably smaller.

He can't throw out a comment like that and leave it hanging.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Nov 29th, 2007, 10:05 AM
As the people shouted in the streets....

"Santos! Santos! Santos"

Oh wait, this isn't Pope John Paul's Message Boards... :tape: What I meant is...

"Enshrine her! Enshrine her! Enshrine her!"

Ryan
Nov 29th, 2007, 10:25 AM
He can't throw out a comment like that and leave it hanging.



Why not? People around tennis like Wertheim, other commentators and former players all KNOW that Evert, McEnroe, Vitas, Borg, etc. all took drugs when they played, but saying it isn't professional. Which is what bugs me so much about Evert's non-support for Martina: the sex, drugs, and rock&roll queen of tennis during its golden era is too busy home-wrecking and milfing it up.

chuvack
Nov 29th, 2007, 11:00 AM
Why not? People around tennis like Wertheim, other commentators and former players all KNOW that Evert, McEnroe, Vitas, Borg, etc. all took drugs when they played, but saying it isn't professional. Which is what bugs me so much about Evert's non-support for Martina: the sex, drugs, and rock&roll queen of tennis during its golden era is too busy home-wrecking and milfing it up.



I agree with this post. Although I didn't hear such things about Evert, it might be due to media's refusal to report it. If Hingis gets called out for rec drug use then so should other big names of the past.

Anyway the thread question is a no brainer. I despise Hingis but 5 GS titles and 16 Tier I's is what it is. Barring proven use of steroids while playing, she is automatic Hall of Fame, no discussion needed.

Xander
Nov 29th, 2007, 11:44 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/11/28/mail.bag28/1.html

Can Martina be denied the HOF based on her use of cocaine?

-- Randy Mayes, Bradford, Pa.

Not in my book. If she were cheating the competition and had tested positive for performance enhancers, it would give pause. But it's too moralistic to deny a player enshrinement because of recreational drug use. Besides, if players who'd snorted coke forfeited a chance for the Hall of Fame, suffice to say the place would be considerably smaller.

For a change, I actually agree with Wertheim. Who woulda thunk it? :lol:

Xander
Nov 29th, 2007, 11:46 AM
He can't throw out a comment like that and leave it hanging.

I'm old (based on this board's demographic) so I remember the rumors of drug use from the "old days". ;)

thrust
Nov 29th, 2007, 01:35 PM
I'm old (based on this board's demographic) so I remember the rumors of drug use from the "old days". ;)

Same here-lol! To deny Martina entrance into the HOF would be absurd and unfair. This whole incident, I think, has been very badly handled by the Wimbledon officails. Have they made any official statement yet?

irinska
Nov 29th, 2007, 01:50 PM
No, nobody has spoken about this exept Martina. They're too busy now trying to cover their mistake.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Nov 29th, 2007, 02:05 PM
If she were cheating the competition and had tested positive for performance enhancers, it would give pause. But it's too moralistic to deny a player enshrinement because of recreational drug use

:worship: :worship: :worship:

He hit the jackpot with this quote. If she really want to cheat, she would have used some other type of drug which is much more potent and unable to be detected... cocaine is probably the dumbest thing to be used for this. Not only it is easily detectable, but it doesn't bring any benefits nor enchancements to her game.

I don't see why a player with 5 GS, multiple titles, numerous weeks at #1 and does not cheat be inducted to the ITHF. It would be a folly and injustice if she is excluded just because she did something which is bad in the eyes of the public, but has no major implications to the world of tennis!

LoveFifteen
Nov 29th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Um, haven't Borg and MacEnroe admitted that they used cocaine recreationally from time to time while they were at their peaks? And I love Chris Evert to death, but I would be shocked if she didn't use blow from time to time during the 70s.

Is Mats Wilander in the HOF?

Rollo
Nov 29th, 2007, 04:42 PM
I agree with this post. Although I didn't hear such things about Evert, it might be due to media's refusal to report it. If Hingis gets called out for rec drug use then so should other big names of the past.

Anyway the thread question is a no brainer. I despise Hingis but 5 GS titles and 16 Tier I's is what it is. Barring proven use of steroids while playing, she is automatic Hall of Fame, no discussion needed.

Evert's use HAS been reported-by Peter Bodo, in his book "Courts of Babylon." There has been no indication in print that she used coke, but she has used marijuana.

goldenlox
Nov 29th, 2007, 04:51 PM
Summing up the season

Larry Scott of the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour might have had the best year of any of the heads of sports in the United States. The TV numbers for the WTA Championships in Madrid two weeks ago were overpowering (nine million viewers on Eurosport for the Justine Henin-Maria Sharapova final), but Scott is not treading water for 2008. He recently addressed these issues:

— Martina Hingis' testing positive for cocaine: "She was in Madrid and we spent quite a bit of time talking about it. Until there's a finding of guilty by the tribunal, I want to believe and support her as much as possible. I hope she's innocent and can prove it."

— Will Hingis return to tennis if she's exonerated: No, says Scott, who asked her that question directly. "She's not coming back, regardless. She's retiring and moving on to the next stage of her life."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/sfl-flspbricktencol29sbnov29,0,6234484.column

griffin
Nov 29th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Um, haven't Borg and MacEnroe admitted that they used cocaine recreationally from time to time while they were at their peaks?

Mac admitted to trying steroids at the end of his career, forget coke.

I tend to think Hingis DID take a snort too close to Wimby and got caught, but I don't get the hypocrisy moral indignation directed at her for it, and I certainly don't think it should keep her out of the Hall of Fame.

chuvack
Nov 29th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Mac admitted to trying steroids at the end of his career, forget coke.

I tend to think Hingis DID take a snort too close to Wimby and got caught, but I don't get the hypocrisy moral indignation directed at her for it, and I certainly don't think it should keep her out of the Hall of Fame.


Sporting celebrities are subjected to a higher standard of behavior than everyday people. It's a price they pay for fame and wealth. Maybe you think that is morally wrong, but like it or not, thats the way the world works.

chuvack
Nov 29th, 2007, 05:40 PM
Evert's use HAS been reported-by Peter Bodo, in his book "Courts of Babylon." There has been no indication in print that she used coke, but she has used marijuana.



this could be a subject of a long debate, but I think that marijuana and coke are 2 different standards. Weed is a semi-legal drug in most democratic countries. Coke on the other hand is illegal in all countries under all sircumstances as it is known to be very destructive and serious addictive drug.

In my view, people who do coke have a drug problem. Smoking weed, not necessarily.

kiwifan
Nov 29th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Chances? :weirdo:

She's in, a slam dunk.

What a non-story. :yawn:

Pretty much everyone was using coke in the late 70s/early 80s...

...simple rule...

...if they've been to Studio 54, they've used coke. ;)

griffin
Nov 29th, 2007, 06:12 PM
thats the way the world works.

Really? :eek: Gee! Thanks for pointing that out, I had no idea

:haha:

die_wahrheit
Nov 29th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Hingis used drugs, her success should be devided by 2.
That gives her still a respectable career, but punishes her for taking performance enhancing drugs.
Hingis tested positive is the main thing for what she'll be remembered.

bie
Nov 29th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Sporting celebrities are subjected to a higher standard of behavior than everyday people.

If that's a higher standard of behaveour I'm glad I'm a everyday person. :)
I wouldn't want to get addicted.

With expressing this I'm not yet saying Martina is. ;)

darrinbaker00
Nov 29th, 2007, 08:26 PM
If they didn't keep Bill Tilden out for being a convicted pedophile, they shouldn't keep Martina Hingis out for using cocaine (allegedly).

exposbabe
Nov 29th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Mats Wilander, who was suspended for coke (with Novacek), got into the HOF right on schedule. Wertheim should merely have pointed that out, and made his point quite clearly.

Forehand_Volley
Nov 29th, 2007, 09:48 PM
Mac admitted to trying steroids at the end of his career, forget coke.

I tend to think Hingis DID take a snort too close to Wimby and got caught, but I don't get the hypocrisy moral indignation directed at her for it, and I certainly don't think it should keep her out of the Hall of Fame.
What moral indignation?

Hingis continues to deny consuming cocaine after a positive drug test and people like Billie Jean King continue to embrace unlikely conspiracy theories that she absorbed it through her skin or that someone laced her drink at a party.

The issue of character goes much deeper than Hingis occasionally taking a snort. Not such a huge deal considering people with more money and power do it everyday. Its about accepting responsibility for your actions instead of trying to dupe the tennis world and its fans into believing illogical conspiracy theories.

I don't really care if Martina Hingis blew cocaine out of her ass or not. But don't lie about it after a positive drug test because you are too cowardly to admit your shortcomings.

Hingis will likely make it into the International Tennis Hall of Fame and I personally don't care either way. I've lost respect because she's lying about consuming cocaine after a positive drug test and proved herself to be a coward for not being honest.

stickwitju(ju)
Nov 29th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Giving Worth-a-dime's column any shine is so 5 years ago.

:yawn:

Max565
Nov 29th, 2007, 10:10 PM
What moral indignation?

Hingis continues to deny consuming cocaine after a positive drug test and people like Billie Jean King continue to embrace unlikely conspiracy theories that she absorbed it through her skin or that someone laced her drink at a party.

The issue of character goes much deeper than Hingis occasionally taking a snort. Not such a huge deal considering people with more money and power do it everyday. Its about accepting responsibility for your actions instead of trying to dupe the tennis world and its fans into believing illogical conspiracy theories.

I don't really care if Martina Hingis blew cocaine out of her ass or not. But don't lie about it after a positive drug test because you are too cowardly to admit your shortcomings.

Hingis will likely make it into the International Tennis Hall of Fame and I personally don't care either way. I've lost respect because she's lying about consuming cocaine after a positive drug test and proved herself to be a coward for not being honest.

and how are you so sure that she took it? Did she tell you the truth?

griffin
Nov 30th, 2007, 01:34 PM
What moral indignation?


I'm referring mostly to posters and pundits, a fair number of whom I'd bet have done their own fair share of recreational drugs at one point or another. (I find the other extreme - the mental gymnastics to explain why Hingis must be innocent, was set up, blah blah blah, equally ridiculous)

She's not confessing? Given the aforementioned hot air, most people wouldn't. Players have fudged and dodged on far less taboo transgressions. Henin never fessed up to having her hand up during Serena's serve, or being coached during matches; Maria Sharapova hasn't either - and her ability to slither around direct quesitons about coaching would put a politician to shame.

Why hold Hingis to a higher standard?

Talula
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:12 PM
Since time began anyone who can afford it has tried a recreational drug. I bet there isn't a single famous person who hasn't tried marijuana or cocaine or some type of opium. Recreational drugs are on every film set, tv set, music tour. They're in the world of ballet, politics, absolutely everywhere. But for some reason people are scared of talking about it. Alcohol is legal and in many cases far more lethal. I think there is a big difference between a joint, a line of coke, and heroin. Even journalists who 'expose' others have used recreational drugs.

If Martina took cocaine, she wont be the first or last sports person to do so. They are human and have a life outside their sport. Famous, wealthy, go out to places such as clubs or parties, and you'd actually be the odd one out if you didn't use cocaine or smoke a joint.

What I think is unfair is that no one yet has the intelligence or guts in sport to advocate the differentiation between a recreational use and a performance enhacing use.

I really feel sorry for Martina. What happens in athletics, gymnastics and other sports - particularly during Olympics and world championships is far worse in my opinion.

chuvack
Nov 30th, 2007, 02:44 PM
I'm referring mostly to posters and pundits, a fair number of whom I'd bet have done their own fair share of recreational drugs at one point or another. (I find the other extreme - the mental gymnastics to explain why Hingis must be innocent, was set up, blah blah blah, equally ridiculous)

She's not confessing? Given the aforementioned hot air, most people wouldn't. Players have fudged and dodged on far less taboo transgressions. Henin never fessed up to having her hand up during Serena's serve, or being coached during matches; Maria Sharapova hasn't either - and her ability to slither around direct quesitons about coaching would put a politician to shame.

Why hold Hingis to a higher standard?


your logic is kind of like a guy coming into courtroom and saying to the judge, "hey that other guy got away with robbing a bank, therefore I should get away with murder. Why are you holding me to a higher standard?"

Tamus
Nov 30th, 2007, 04:44 PM
Since time began anyone who can afford it has tried a recreational drug. I bet there isn't a single famous person who hasn't tried marijuana or cocaine or some type of opium. Recreational drugs are on every film set, tv set, music tour. They're in the world of ballet, politics, absolutely everywhere. But for some reason people are scared of talking about it. Alcohol is legal and in many cases far more lethal. I think there is a big difference between a joint, a line of coke, and heroin. Even journalists who 'expose' others have used recreational drugs.

This is ridiculous. Believe it or not, there are good, clean people in the world.

chuvack
Nov 30th, 2007, 05:15 PM
Since time began anyone who can afford it has tried a recreational drug. I bet there isn't a single famous person who hasn't tried marijuana or cocaine or some type of opium. Recreational drugs are on every film set, tv set, music tour.




Wow.

You don't have any reservation about taking out your mega-size brush and insulting a lot of famous and highly accomplished people who never used drugs.

Ryan
Nov 30th, 2007, 05:25 PM
Wow.

You don't have any reservation about taking out your mega-size brush and insulting a lot of famous and highly accomplished people who never used drugs.



Just like you have no problem saying Hingis is guilty before she's even been formally charged - the damn company that did the test hasnt said BOO about it.

chuvack
Nov 30th, 2007, 06:00 PM
Just like you have no problem saying Hingis is guilty before she's even been formally charged - the damn company that did the test hasnt said BOO about it.


The company who did the test is the same ITF-officially sanctioned company that drug-tested the other 300 players at Wimbledon this year. Hingis is the only one who tested positive for coke. Make of that what you will.

The ITF is very thorough in prosecuting doping offenses. When they're ready to present the case, we'll hear from them.