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View Full Version : Bartoli's Serve and other players techniques


SV_Fan
Nov 27th, 2007, 08:56 PM
Well I was at the park this sunday, playing with my hitting partner. We were playing a set and I broke him by creating the shap angles off my fierce 2 handed shots, but anyways I was getting a single serve in. My normal serve is a short poke at the ball that is easy to attack. So then I was thinking about Bartoli and how consistent her shots and things are. I started to imitate her servebecause I knew that her serve is consistent. So I stood at the line stood on my tippy toes and served I don't do my arm like hers but it worked. I aced him a couple times, and My serve was placing well. At 1st I tried to imitates Venus' serve motion I just love that motion so then that didn't work so I tried Serena's that didn't work so I went with Bartoli. But Bartoli's Serve really works and I was thinking if she can generate 90-100mph serves with her wrist then imagine what she could do if hers was like Justine or Venus'.

Have you guys ever done this? Imitate a players certain something?

thomas.chung
Nov 27th, 2007, 10:38 PM
Well first of all, congratulate you on your aces.

So it is really two questions you are asking:
1.) Can players imitate others to improve mechanics?
2.) Can players work certain element or technique or game style (like counter-punching vs. volleyer) of another player's into his/her game?

To answer your questions, I am personally a fan of Justine. However, I would not imitate her groundstroke because hers require a lot of core strength which unless you are a dedicated athlete who does a lot of training in the core strength area, you won't be able to generate the kind of pace she hits in. This brings up the point about different body types, mechanics is very dependent on body type. Which means that it is almost impossible for Serena to play in Justine's mechanics because Serena is much taller and bulkier which means that she cannot achieve the same level of light footed-ness" as Justine even in her prime. With this being said, players can certainly work different elements into their game, like as you said, hitting with more wrist on her serves or having more shoulder turn. But at their level, their mechanics should be near perfect as much as other people criticize, because how else can they be the top of the world.

SV_Fan
Nov 28th, 2007, 12:04 AM
Interesting

RJWCapriati
Nov 28th, 2007, 01:46 AM
I do sometimes try to think of Henin's serve & forehand when I'm on court, it always seems to help me. :yeah:

DefyingGravity
Nov 28th, 2007, 01:57 AM
I've copied Hantuchova's backhand, and it kept mine SOOO smooth. I also copied Farina Elia's forehand and serve, variety, and volleys. I've really picked up my results with this combination.

Tennace
Nov 28th, 2007, 02:00 AM
Ive tried Bartoli's backhand once in a while. Once I was just fooling around at a clinic using her backhand and I hit something like 8 winners in a row off it :lol:

thomas.chung
Nov 28th, 2007, 02:25 AM
LOL! Maybe Bartoli is the queen of "good" technique! LOL!

Mikey.
Nov 28th, 2007, 03:03 AM
I've been copying Davenports forehand, but I think my wrist and arm muscles aren't strong enough yet and I keep hurting my wrist lol. But I just love the action she uses. I need to work on the technique more also.

Here have a look at about 0:19 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXy-a1duDC0
It looks so graceful and effortless, even though it goes out lol.

Serenidad.
Nov 28th, 2007, 03:09 AM
Go Walter Bartoli! He needs to open an academy in Franceee.

Giggle.

historystupid
Nov 28th, 2007, 04:44 AM
I've been copying Davenports forehand, but I think my wrist and arm muscles aren't strong enough yet and I keep hurting my wrist lol. But I just love the action she uses. I need to work on the technique more also.

Here have a look at about 0:19 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXy-a1duDC0
It looks so graceful and effortless, even though it goes out lol.

Oh, I can tell you why you hurt your wrist cause I've been imitating Davenport's forehand, too.

To play that kind of forehand you have to make sure you're hitting the ball "a little" later than usual, but not as late as Maria Sharapova did, otherwise you'll hurt your wrist and shoulder badly for sure. And you also have to stay a liitle farer than you usually do when you hit "normal" forehand.

historystupid
Nov 28th, 2007, 04:46 AM
Your wrist should move only after you hit your forehand.

historystupid
Nov 28th, 2007, 04:51 AM
And don't push your forehand forward too much cause this kind of shots are usually used to create angles, not to pound it away.

Medina
Nov 28th, 2007, 05:07 AM
well i have the serve of Medina Garrigues (lame i know)

its not cause shes my favourite player, ive been sercving for that for liek a year now, My kicker is :inlove:

DimaDinosaur
Nov 28th, 2007, 05:39 AM
I copy Henin's backhand and her "Allez"'s on court. Her "Allez"'s do have a psychological effect on the opponent, which I like :hearts:

the jamierbelyea
Nov 28th, 2007, 05:47 AM
I don't try to copy strokes of players, but sometimes as I'm playing I visualize the pros as I'm hitting to remind me to do somethings I typically don't do. I visualize Tati Golovin bending her knees on her groundstrokes when I'm hitting.. or Jelena following through with her whole body on her backhand. I did copy the beginign of Tanasugarn's serve.

Привет
Nov 28th, 2007, 05:50 AM
I try to play my ground strokes like Dokic's. My serve is slightly like Vaidisova's.

thomas.chung
Nov 28th, 2007, 06:48 AM
Oh, I can tell you why you hurt your wrist cause I've been imitating Davenport's forehand, too.

To play that kind of forehand you have to make sure you're hitting the ball "a little" later than usual, but not as late as Maria Sharapova did, otherwise you'll hurt your wrist and shoulder badly for sure. And you also have to stay a liitle farer than you usually do when you hit "normal" forehand.

Davenport actually has a slightly more eastern forehand which allows her to hit the ball closer to her body. And subsequently you see her looping the racquet over her head when she finishes to give her a little more top spin for a bit more margin of safety. Usually the "rule" is that the more western the grip, the higher you can take the ball (and subsequently suffer if the ball stays low) and the farther out in front you need to hit. As a result, Davenport has to hit the ball closer to her body (or later in the timing), another good example would be Steffi Graf's forehand, where she hits the ball almost when it is at her body. As much as that "rule", the top players can get away with this sometimes because they are simply good athletes, experienced and worked hard in training, and facilitating their muscles, a good example would be Justine and Serena who has good racquet head control and athleticism. With the wrist, DO NOT break the wrist when you contact the ball, or else you might easily injure it. The wrist snap that you see in Justine and Federer actually happens before they contact the ball to give them a bit more whip (or racquet head acceleration) on the ball. But if you look at them hitting the ball at contact, their wrists stay constant.

P.S. If you are doing it right, you shouldn't have to suffer. If you suffer, see a coach.

Mikey.
Nov 28th, 2007, 09:28 AM
oh ok. I had my wrist strapped when I played today and it was fine afterwards. I find that if I try to hit a high ball, the Davenport forehand is really ineffective at getting the ball back with force. I usually net it. I have trouble on high balls no matter what type of forehand I do actually. But I find the Davenport forehand to be really effective on medium to low balls. I do use the eastern grip, I believe. Would that have something to do with it? Should I change the grip to semi-western or western for high balls when doing the Davenport forehand, and/or for all forehands?

backhand_user
Nov 28th, 2007, 09:54 AM
well, personally, i try to imitate justine's groundstrokes!
the first i tried to hit the same was the backhand, and i would say that i hit it much like justine!
in fact, other people who see me hitting my backhand say that i look exactly like her! (somtething i can't unfortunately see and judge, but i hope they aer right! hehehehe)
the last year, i try to imitate her forehand, i have always played with the same grip (a semi-western one) but i had a different backswing and distance from the ball
by changing the stroke and making it look like justine's, it is far more effective and less tiring!
my opinion is that justine's technique is remarquable, in every single shot and that she can be a perfect example of tennis shots!!!

debopero
Nov 28th, 2007, 10:55 AM
I tried to copy Venus's forehand.

The Dawntreader
Nov 28th, 2007, 11:04 AM
Well i have tried to emulate the Venus serve, so you can understand how erratic my second serve is:lol:

I've tried the kick second serve more recently, and it really works in terms of the safety element. Much more reliable now in tight matches- thank god:lol:

The Dawntreader
Nov 28th, 2007, 11:05 AM
I tried to copy Venus's forehand.

You and me both:lol:

thomas.chung
Nov 28th, 2007, 01:12 PM
oh ok. I had my wrist strapped when I played today and it was fine afterwards. I find that if I try to hit a high ball, the Davenport forehand is really ineffective at getting the ball back with force. I usually net it. I have trouble on high balls no matter what type of forehand I do actually. But I find the Davenport forehand to be really effective on medium to low balls. I do use the eastern grip, I believe. Would that have something to do with it? Should I change the grip to semi-western or western for high balls when doing the Davenport forehand, and/or for all forehands?

It is a simple experiment that you can try, visualization.

With your forehand grip, try to visualize and pretend that you are hitting your forehands. Now instead of finishing your forehand like you normally do, stop the racquet at where you think (or want) the racquet to contact the ball. When you start, pretend that the ball is at waist high and note the angle of the racquet face in comparison to the ground (whether it is completely perpendicular, or parallel). Now, try it for different "height", and note their angle. You will probably see that the higher the ball, the angle of the racquet face will be more and more parallel (that means the racquet should be more and more closed) at contact. Then try to do the same for balls that are of different distances away from you, from being very far front to very late. With this, you should get a pretty good sense of where your ideal contact zone is.

Generally, my coach doesn't recommend me changing grips for any groundstroke just due to the way it arrives, because it will just mess up your timing and everything. Instead you can try to move back a few steps and try to take the ball at a lower height. However, remember to recover! ;)

Mama´sBoy
Nov 28th, 2007, 01:16 PM
I copied the Backhand from Venus :help:

Mikey.
Nov 28th, 2007, 01:21 PM
It is a simple experiment that you can try, visualization.

With your forehand grip, try to visualize and pretend that you are hitting your forehands. Now instead of finishing your forehand like you normally do, stop the racquet at where you think (or want) the racquet to contact the ball. When you start, pretend that the ball is at waist high and note the angle of the racquet face in comparison to the ground (whether it is completely perpendicular, or parallel). Now, try it for different "height", and note their angle. You will probably see that the higher the ball, the angle of the racquet face will be more and more parallel (that means the racquet should be more and more closed) at contact. Then try to do the same for balls that are of different distances away from you, from being very far front to very late. With this, you should get a pretty good sense of where your ideal contact zone is.

Generally, my coach doesn't recommend me changing grips for any groundstroke just due to the way it arrives, because it will just mess up your timing and everything. Instead you can try to move back a few steps and try to take the ball at a lower height. However, remember to recover! ;)

Thanks heaps! I'll definitely need to get a coach myself! :)

mirzalover
Nov 28th, 2007, 03:59 PM
M serve is naturally like Mirza's so of course its all over the place.
My backhand is just like Myskina's with out even trying.
My forehand I hit with two hands so I started coping Marion with the taking the racquet up then down low and i found my inside out forehand really improved.

Petkorazzi
Nov 28th, 2007, 04:04 PM
Today I had an awful day :o So I tried to change my usually amazing FH with Bartolis Doubles handed one .. For a few rallies it was ok, but then it would go meters out :lol: And I really had problems taking the rather fast balls, so I went back to my FH :p

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 28th, 2007, 04:10 PM
I don't copy players strokes persay.
I do take in what they say or do. For execution on serve I've listened to the simple 3 things Serena has mentioned on Martha Steward.
I take in the approach shots on Nadia Petrova on the forehand.
I noticed that Dani would sneak in to net on Medina Garrigues loopers in her match against her at Rome and now I think it's a good strategy.
I've actually gone a little Davydenko on my backhand when I get loopers. I like to hold my ground on the baseline and hit in back crosscourt.
Although Kim Clijsters' loopy backhand didn't work for her, if I'm already behind the baseline, I will loop it back similiar to her.

Farina Elia Fan
Nov 28th, 2007, 05:26 PM
I've copied Hantuchova's backhand, and it kept mine SOOO smooth. I also copied Farina Elia's forehand and serve, variety, and volleys. I've really picked up my results with this combination.

:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:







My serve is just rubbish and have tried to copy so many people :o - Hewitt, Davenport and Ferrero to name but a few but I decide to use Silvia's while serving on my own and it went in alot more than before, it is what I use now :)

Rexman
Nov 28th, 2007, 06:13 PM
I've got Myskina's forehand. I don't think it was intentional, but she is my favorite player so maybe.

My backhand is a mix of Dementieva and Nalbandian. I can hit some nice angles on it and love taking it down the line, but sometimes it just kinda is a medium paced crosscourt ball with nothing to it.

I have tendonitis in my shoulder, which used to cause my to serve like Dementieva also. I've gotten better at not doing the side-winder, but it comes back in tight situations sometimes.

My movement is good, though a bit defensive. Kinda like Kim, I even slide a bit sometimes.

Barpaw91
Dec 27th, 2007, 04:33 PM
Walter Bartoli