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View Full Version : Who had the most Dominat Year! Serena or Justine.


Henpova
Nov 17th, 2007, 12:29 PM
I was just in the "Justine is not the Federer of the WTA" thread, and for some reason it has turned in to a battle between Justine's 2007 year and Serena's 2002 year. So I started this poll and used info from a thread Petersmiler started a little while ago and want you to vote. That way it can be put behind us. So plz vote for who had the most dominant :) Thanks Petersmiler for the great info

Originally Posted by Petersmiler View Post

So I did a little digging (thank you WTATOUR.COM) and here are my findings:

Overall Winning %
Serena 2002 = 56/5 = 91.8
Justine 2007 = 63/4 = 94

Vs Top 10
Serena 2002 = 17/2 = 89.5%
Justine 2007 = 22/1 = 95.7

Both Serena and Justine beat 4 different players who had already won a slam.

Vs Top 10 in slams
Serena 2002 = 5/0 = 100%
Justine 2007 = 6/0 = 100%

Serena beat 3 different players who had already won a slam. Justine beat 2.

Worst Loss
Serena 2002 - Charleston Q - l. to Schnyder Rank 30
Justine 2007 - Paris S - l. to Safarova Rank 32

Tournaments Won
Serena 2002 - 8/13 - 61.5%
Justine 2007 - 10/14 - 71.4%

Slams Won
Serena 2002 - 3/3 - 100%
Justine 2007 - 2/3 - 66.6%


I(henpova) took out the parts where pete came to his conclusion, to save space.

evan2907
Nov 17th, 2007, 12:49 PM
I think Justine.
She left only crumbs for others. She missed OA like Serena.
But this year, nobody can't hold a candle to Justine, whereas in 2002 Venus had a excellent year and Kim had a good year.
The two frightened, had a mental advantage over the others.
Justine has one slam less but she is more efficient, won more titles and the YEC.

Shvedbarilescu
Nov 17th, 2007, 12:53 PM
It really is borderline. I suppose if I had to say I would give Serena the nod for the extra Slam but it is very close.

Renalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Definitely, without a doubt, Serena in 2002. Not being biased. Justine even said it herself.

Ninny
Nov 17th, 2007, 12:55 PM
Definitely, without a doubt, Serena in 2002. Not being biased. Justine even said it herself.

Interesting. Which interview was that? I'd like to see that, thanks :) Would you mind posting the link?

Renalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:09 PM
It was posted on the board here...I'll go find it, gimme a minute.

Renalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:18 PM
Here.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=321635&highlight=dominance+serena

">>I don't consider myself as the best player in the world, don't think that's even possible to determine.
I don't dominate women's tennis, what Steffi did or Seles and even Serena few years ago, that was domination.
I'm just no.1 in the ranking and having an excellent season. I'm sure there a few more players who can
achieve that level of consistancy if they stay healthy for longer period."

Ninny
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:21 PM
^^ Thanks :)

She's extremely humble and modest.

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:23 PM
Serena's 2002 for sure! she wouldnt lose a match when having MPs in 2002.

evan2907
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:33 PM
Serena's 2002 for sure! she wouldnt lose a match when having MPs in 2002.

:lol: :lol:
Serena-Schnyder in Charleston
Serena led 6/2 4/6 5/4 40/30 and lost 6/2 4/6 5/7 :lol:

Henpova
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:38 PM
:lol: :lol:
Serena-Schnyder in Charleston
Serena led 6/2 4/6 5/4 40/30 and lost 6/2 4/6 5/7 :lol:

LOL I love you, for bring that one up.

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:48 PM
:lol: :lol:
Serena-Schnyder in Charleston
Serena led 6/2 4/6 5/4 40/30 and lost 6/2 4/6 5/7 :lol:

i have this match, and Serena lead but never had match point
i dont know why you post a fake record, just because of you are a justine fan?

~Cherry*Blossom~
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Serena obviously. She won three slams in a row. She won two slams in a row without even dropping a set. Definitely the most dominant year out of the two!

iPatty
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Serena did have matchpoint against Patty in Charleston. What match were you watching? :tape:

Anyway, I think Justine.

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Serena did have matchpoint against Patty in Charleston. What match were you watching? :tape:

Anyway, I think Justine.

it was 30-15 and Serena lost next 3 points and the game

iPatty
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:55 PM
i have this match, and Serena lead but never had match point
i dont know why you post a fake record, just because of you are a justine fan?

http://www.patty-schnyder.com/int19402.html

Q. What were you thinking when you tried that drop shot that gave her the match point? Were you wondering what you were doing there or?
PATTY SCHNYDER: No. I mean I just tried it, and I tried a few things before, and sometimes it works, sometime not, and I just always kept fighting and kept believing that I could win. Of course, it was a little bit lucky at the end, but I'll take it.

Q. Can you talk about fighting off the match point there?
PATTY SCHNYDER: Yeah. That was a great point. Great serve, great backhand and that was it.

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:58 PM
http://www.patty-schnyder.com/int19402.html

Q. What were you thinking when you tried that drop shot that gave her the match point? Were you wondering what you were doing there or?
PATTY SCHNYDER: No. I mean I just tried it, and I tried a few things before, and sometimes it works, sometime not, and I just always kept fighting and kept believing that I could win. Of course, it was a little bit lucky at the end, but I'll take it.

Q. Can you talk about fighting off the match point there?
PATTY SCHNYDER: Yeah. That was a great point. Great serve, great backhand and that was it.

i have no idea but if things go okay i will upload that part of match and post:p

and i dont think its the main argument. you think justine this year but i think serena's 2002
serena was from no.10 when she comeback and go to no.1 but justine was no.2
serena didnt get an easy draw due to her seed, but justine had a better draw - no need to face top 3 in a row

iPatty
Nov 17th, 2007, 01:59 PM
Okay. :lol:

I'd like to see that match anyway. :hearts: :hug:

AcesHigh
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:00 PM
Serena. Perfect record in slams is complete domination

Renalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Ugh, so many people are voting for Justine. Do you people even REMEMBER 2002?

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:20 PM
other reasons i think serena's 2002 is better because
1. she didnt fear to any players she had lost many times in a row like jennifer
she defeated her in tight situations like 4-4 third set, 5-5 third set, 6 set points down, 3-6 5-2 but then 3-6 5-6
i think she was mentally tougher than justine this year.

2. serena beat venus who was twice defending champion at wimbledon and us open, and jennifer in rg who was defending champion too
but justine has dominated on clay since 2005. she has better foundation.

serenus_2k8
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:21 PM
Its obvious whos was better :D Serena!

Plus I would rather have to play the likes of Ivanovic and Kutz than Venus in GS Finals anytime...

Renalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Justine has close to mental toughness, I only recall the Myskina-Olympics match which she showed some. She fell to Bartoli after seemingly having the match under wraps. She fell to Serena after having two match points. She failed to take advantage of Kuznetsova on CLAY.

Conor
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:29 PM
Its close but I'd say Serena as she won an extra slam.

Renalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:31 PM
^ Yay, an unbiased Justine fan. :D

BuTtErFrEnA
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:39 PM
go conor!!! i always loved you for being unbiased...i think serena too...the only person close to Serena was Venus

Petersmiler
Nov 17th, 2007, 02:45 PM
Well I guess I had to post as it's my stats which have been quoted, and my original conclusion removed.

I think it's pretty even, unless you look at slams and slams alone in which case it's Serena. If you are talking about overall across the tour the numbers support Justine, but only just.

Therefore I'm going for equal domination!

Mina Vagante
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:25 PM
ummm... maybe we need to journey back so people can see just how good Serena was. i'll give you some help. Watch 2002 US SF:devil:

spencercarlos
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:28 PM
Serena. Perfect record in slams is complete domination
I agree.

Some Justine fans even had "the balls" to say that Justineīs 2007 > Federerīs 2007 :lol:

:wavey:

RenaSlam.
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:33 PM
Serena. 3 slams in a row > 2 slams.

Watching
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I agree.

Some Justine fans even had "the balls" to say that Justineīs 2007 > Federerīs 2007 :lol:

:wavey:

HAHHAHA thats funny. I hate the comparison of Henin/Federer. To me they play nothinnnng alike!!!! Anyway Serena's 2002>>>Henin's 2007. 3 slams in a row. Henin won 2 slams but not in a row.

justine schnyder
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:45 PM
I think they're both were very dominate.

Geisha
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:45 PM
For me, it just has to be Serena. Her fifth loss was a retirement, for starters. I know, it isn't anybody else's fault that she wasn't fit, but she still didn't lose the completed match.

2002 really saw, in my opinion, peak Capriati and Venus, two players who have won multiple Grand Slams and earned the Number One ranking. A far cry from Henin's main competition in 2007 - Jankovic, Kuznetsova, and Ivanovic.

Serena lost to Chanda Rubin, who had her hottest season, in 2002. Bad loss, but Chanda was on fire. And, losing to Schnyder is no shame either, considering Schnyder is still highly competitive in 2007.

Geisha
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:47 PM
An even better argument could be Justine from US Open '06 to end of '07 and Serena's Scottsdale '02 to Wimbledon '03.

*W*
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:50 PM
serena in 2002.

Juju4ever
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:51 PM
That's a tough one. Still, I think Serena dominatad more because she won 3 slams in a row and made the YEC final.

plantman
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:51 PM
^^ Thanks :)

She's extremely humble and modest.

That's why she's so well liked WORLD WIDE!:)

Natalicious
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:55 PM
serena in 2002

Brooklyn90
Nov 17th, 2007, 04:59 PM
3 straight Grand Slams
now that's a year :yeah:
And to me it seems like there was much better competition in 2002 :shrug:

-VSR-
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:01 PM
3>2.

Serena.

Expat
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:08 PM
domination against stronger players (2002 multiple GS champions in peak condition venus,jennifer) vs domination in 2007(jankovic , kuznetsova 0-3 in YEC ) u decide

Dodoboy.
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:17 PM
Serena by far. I mean the players she had to beat, besonders Venus!!!
I mean common, Justine is a great player and has had an amazing season and no doubt she is one of the players of the decade but Serena just dominated that season AND with tougher competition.
Lets throw some names out there and see what i get:
Jennifer Capriati
Venus
Kim Clijsters
This list sure does beat Ivanovic, Jelena and Kuznetsova atm.

And we are talking about TENNIS here not singles so don't forget about DOUBLES!! :drool:

sportywoman
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Justine had the more dominate YEAR, Serena was the more dominant in slams.

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:31 PM
set win/loss
Serena 2002 115-18 86.5%
Justine 2007 129-22 85.4%

MistyGrey
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:32 PM
Serena's 02 was better in my book. Justine has more titles and better stats this year but 3/3 at slams decides it for me.

btw, people always tend to think the more recent player was better. Williams fans used to do the same with Steffi/Martina. Its good to see how they are on the receiving end now. With Justine's current domination, a lot of fans have started thinking Justine's 07 was better than Serena's 02. Ten years from now, fans on these message boards will be talking about how the then #1 would wipe the floor with Williamses/Henin.

MistyGrey
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:35 PM
set win/loss
Serena 2002 115-18 86.5%
Justine 2007 129-22 85.4%

:lol: That is the least important stat...ever!
Having a better match win loss ratio is much better than having a better set win/loss ratio.
3 slams > 2 slam. Thats simple.

vswfan
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:39 PM
:lol: That is the least important stat...ever!
Having a better match win loss ratio is much better than having a better set win/loss ratio.
3 slams > 2 slam. Thats simple.

thats important
how to define "dominate"?
if you are really dominant your opponents may not even close to you
in US Open SG
serena didnt let lindsay even had a winner in the first set!

MistyGrey
Nov 17th, 2007, 05:41 PM
thats important
how to define "dominate"?
if you are really dominant your opponents may not even close to you
in US Open SG
serena didnt let lindsay even had a winner in the first set!

Winning more matches with less losses and having more titles is much better than having a better set win/loss ratio, especially when the set win loss ratios are that close.

Like I said 3>2.

And btw, Lindsay was just coming back from injury in that match, she was wayyy off her peak and yet managed to make the second set damn close :p.

Il Primo!
Nov 17th, 2007, 06:13 PM
Serena, no doubt.

The Daviator
Nov 17th, 2007, 06:15 PM
Has to be Serena - 3 Slams in a row on different surfaces :worship:

-VSR-
Nov 17th, 2007, 06:38 PM
I still don't see how people are saying Henin. But I think we all know that Serena won all three slams she participated in. She just dominated everyone.

thrust
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:33 PM
Justine 2 Slams + YEC. Beat Serena 3 of 4, all 3 wins in Slams. More tournaments won, higher % of tournaments won, higher % of matches won to matches played. One extra Slam for Serena is compensated by Justine^s YEC plus her superior stats in every catagory. Very close, but slight edge to Justine.

Viktymise
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:35 PM
Are people voting Justine's 2007 on crack or are they just plain deluded :tape: The answer is clearly Serena's 2002.

faboozadoo15
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:38 PM
Serena, simply because she didn't lose in the majors.
Henin is really really close though. She dominated the entire tour. There's no one even close to her. She has only loss in a major, but has the YEC unlike Serena in 2002. If Henin had won Miami, beating Serena and had that extra title, maybe I'd say her 2007 was better. Or maybe if she'd beaten Bartoli :tape:

tennismaster8820
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:40 PM
Serena for sure! No doubt about that!

Matt01
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:41 PM
It is close. Serena maybe had a slightly "greater" year because she won more Slams, but Justine maybe had a slightly more "dominant" year because some of her other stats are better than Serena's.

Tennisstar86
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:43 PM
Serena.... I mean if we're goin by year we have to include her AO win... and whatever Justine does next year at the AO.... as a whole year... and even if Justine wins it still wont be 4 in a row.... why is this even a debate? As many have said 3>2

LCS
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:44 PM
Brie Whitehead this year was as dominant as one can get, she didn't allow her opponents to drop a single game!

Matt01
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:49 PM
why is this even a debate?


Because the question is not: Who has won more Slams in her dominant year, Justine or Serena? :rolleyes:

evan2907
Nov 17th, 2007, 10:57 PM
Me, I don't understand your narrow-mindedness to reduce 9 months of tennis to 4 slams.
Yes the GS are the most prestigious tournaments. But it's a lack of respect to the others tournaments and to all the players who compete and work hard everyday to win a game or a little tournament like a tier 4. It's also unworthy from tennis fans to take into account only the 4 slams.
Furthermore although it's less prestigious, the YEC is greatest than a slam. It's more difficult to win a YEC than a slam. To win a YEC, you have to beat 4 or 5 five Top10. To win a slam, you have to beat 1, 2 or 3 Top10 at the most. And you can rest one day between every round.
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win RG ? 2
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win Wimbledon ? 1
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win US Open ? 2
Justine beat 5 top10 in ONE tournament.

So 2 GS + YEC > 3 GS
10 titles > 8 titles

Geisha
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:05 PM
Me, I don't understand your narrow-mindedness to reduce 9 months of tennis to 4 slams.
Yes the GS are the most prestigious tournaments. But it's a lack of respect to the others tournaments and to all the players who compete and work hard everyday to win a game or a little tournament like a tier 4. It's also unworthy from tennis fans to take into account only the 4 slams.
Furthermore although it's less prestigious, the YEC is greatest than a slam. It's more difficult to win a YEC than a slam. To win a YEC, you have to beat 4 or 5 five Top10. To win a slam, you have to beat 1, 2 or 3 Top10 at the most. And you can rest one day between every round.
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win RG ? 2
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win Wimbledon ? 1
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win US Open ? 2
Justine beat 5 top10 in ONE tournament.

So 2 GS + YEC > 3 GS
10 titles > 8 titles

How is 2 GS and a YEC greater than 3 GS? You consider the YEC a GS?

evan2907
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:10 PM
How is 2 GS and a YEC greater than 3 GS? You consider the YEC a GS?

What, you aren't able to read ????

sunset
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:19 PM
Hands down Justine.

Beating the snot out of both Serena and then Venus back to back was the highlight of her career.
She owns them now, and of course, she'll do it again.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tennisstar86
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:23 PM
What, you aren't able to read ????

they can read...you're just dumb in your arguement
A) YEC are easier to get through can you can lose a match and still make the final
B) In 2002 YEC were not roound robin format had serena won she still would have only played 3 top teners...
C) You DO Know who is in the top ten this year right.....?

If we're going by that arguement then Venus' Wimbledon win this year is better than anything Justine did this year.... top teners with no days off...

Njay16
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:25 PM
Hands down Justine.

Beating the snot out of both Serena and then Venus back to back was the highlight of her career.
She owns them now, and of course, she'll do it again.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

She def. did not beat the snot out of them she was made to work for those victories. Her 6-6 record against serena and her 2-7 against venus doesn't scream that she owns them.

RJWCapriati
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Henin

roooobert
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:37 PM
i think serena by far.. she won matches just becuase she was serena, it seemed like she would win every slam for the rest of her life, and some people didnt think she would lose a match the upcoming year.. i dont think that will happen again with a player.. it gets harder and harder... justine's year was amazing, but 2 slams to henin, and 2 to williams..when you look back and have that stat in 5 years, it wont seem like domination from henin, ppl forget, its obvious if you look at all ppl voting for henin..

Pureracket
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:38 PM
Serena won Wimbledon.

-VSR-
Nov 17th, 2007, 11:59 PM
:haha: :spit: at some ppl saying YEC=GS!

thrust
Nov 18th, 2007, 12:52 AM
How is 2 GS and a YEC greater than 3 GS? You consider the YEC a GS?

As Tracy Austin said, it is more difficult to win a YEC than a Salm. At the YEC, you have to win 5 matches in six days against the top other 7 players of the year. In a Slam you play 7 matches over a 14 day period, with the top players ususally having very low ranked players the first few rounds. The GS has more prestige, but the YEC is a tougher tournament to win and should have the prestige of a Slam.

hdfb
Nov 18th, 2007, 12:55 AM
Serena without a doubt. Dominant players just can't lose against a player like Bartoli (no offense) at a Wimbledon semifinal.

thrust
Nov 18th, 2007, 12:55 AM
[QUOTE=Pureracket;12003813]Serena won Wimbledon.[/QUOTEWimbledon is just another Slam. The AO, USO and FO have the same quality competitors as Wimbledon. Also, there are more players who play better on hard courts and clay than on grass courts.

thrust
Nov 18th, 2007, 01:01 AM
they can read...you're just dumb in your arguement
A) YEC are easier to get through can you can lose a match and still make the final
B) In 2002 YEC were not roound robin format had serena won she still would have only played 3 top teners...
C) You DO Know who is in the top ten this year right.....?

If we're going by that arguement then Venus' Wimbledon win this year is better than anything Justine did this year.... top teners with no days off...

Justine^s record at this years YEC was 5-0, therefore, she did not need round robin play to win. What was Serena^s longest winning streak in 2002? Was it longer than Justine^25? I really don^t know.

Njay16
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:19 AM
As Tracy Austin said, it is more difficult to win a YEC than a Salm. At the YEC, you have to win 5 matches in six days against the top other 7 players of the year. In a Slam you play 7 matches over a 14 day period, with the top players ususally having very low ranked players the first few rounds. The GS has more prestige, but the YEC is a tougher tournament to win and should have the prestige of a Slam.

I disagree. There many low ranked players that are dangerous and can cause the upsets. And a lot of times the top players have nevr heard of their early round opponents. Besides that you have dealing with the elements outdoors (ie. Wimbledon 2007) and 7 matches can take a lot out of you mentally and physically. And when players come to the YEC they are beat down and tired, thus producing a lackluster boring tournament. (With the exception of this years final).

CJ07
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:27 AM
Although you can only beat who is in front of you, Justine has mickey mouse competition. She really proved herself at the Open beating both sisters in a row, but the level of competition in 2002 was much higher at the top.

Ivanovic, Jankovic and Kuznetsova are not nearly as good as Venus, Capriati, Clijsters and Davenport were back then. Also Venus was at her peak, Capriati was as well (or at the tail end of it) and Clijsters was coming into her own. Serena won Wimbledon and the US Open back to back without dropping a set, won the French on her (by far) worst surface beating the defending champion, and was absolutely tantalizing in that cat suit.

So the answer is Serena - hell even Justine said so.

I just wish Serena would get back into that shape.

CJ07
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:28 AM
Hands down Justine.

Beating the snot out of both Serena and then Venus back to back was the highlight of her career.
She owns them now, and of course, she'll do it again.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
how is 7-6 6-4 beating the snot of a player?

Especially when that player had to check into the Mayo clinic right afterwards.

CJ07
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:36 AM
Me, I don't understand your narrow-mindedness to reduce 9 months of tennis to 4 slams.
Yes the GS are the most prestigious tournaments. But it's a lack of respect to the others tournaments and to all the players who compete and work hard everyday to win a game or a little tournament like a tier 4. It's also unworthy from tennis fans to take into account only the 4 slams.
Furthermore although it's less prestigious, the YEC is greatest than a slam. It's more difficult to win a YEC than a slam. To win a YEC, you have to beat 4 or 5 five Top10. To win a slam, you have to beat 1, 2 or 3 Top10 at the most. And you can rest one day between every round.
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win RG ? 2
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win Wimbledon ? 1
How many Top10 did Serena beat to win US Open ? 2
Justine beat 5 top10 in ONE tournament.

So 2 GS + YEC > 3 GS
10 titles > 8 titles
Listen.

Serena beat the #1 and #2 players back to back to win Roland Garros - and a former champion 6-1 6-1. Two weeks before she beat Justine in straight sets to win Rome. All this considering she hadn't even reached a SF in a clay court tournament before Berlin, thats pretty impressive.

Serena beat the #1 player - and 2x defending champion - in straight sets, as well as Hantuchova who was in the top 10 at the time, and a future champion in Mauresmo.

At the US Open, Serena beat Hantuchova again, and then former champion Davenport, and two time defending champion Venus.

To put this in perspective, the #2 at the time Venus won 7 titles that year, had a 62-5 record against everyone else, and reached 3 grand slam finals that year - in addition to being #1. Kuznetsova, on the other had has one title due to a retirement.

Justine Henin no doubt had an amazing 2007. But she doesn't really have competition. When I say that, there isn't a player like Nadal or Djokovic who beats everyone else except Federer. Kuznetsova and Jankovic have losing streaks, and Ivanovic just lost 1-6 2-6. Serena had to deal with Venus & Capriati who were fresh off becoming #1 and winning grand slams. And both players were consistently beating everyone else that year because they were at the top of their games.

Serena's 2002 was better than Justine's 2007 - just go ask Justine.

mboyle
Nov 18th, 2007, 03:45 AM
When Serena played in 2002, no one could even win sets. Serena won her matches because she was a level above everyone else in terms of power, speed and athleticism.

Justine has "dominated" in 2007 because she's been healthy and mentally tough as nails. Justine has won more matches than Serena, and numerically has been more dominant, but her dominance is a result of her playing hyper consistently, as her opponents blink, more than her sheer power. When Serena lost in 2002, it was because she was missing every other shot. Justine has been overpowered a few times this year.

No Name Face
Nov 18th, 2007, 03:55 AM
Definitely Serena, based more on the competition she had than the extra slam.

Serena's competition had all won multiple slams.

Henin's main competition in terms of rank and rank alone are...Ivanovic, Jankovic, Kuznetsova........

compare that to Venus and Capriati and there you go.

hwanmig
Nov 18th, 2007, 04:05 AM
Justine of course.

CanIGetAWhat
Nov 18th, 2007, 04:18 AM
Here.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=321635&highlight=dominance+serena

">>I don't consider myself as the best player in the world, don't think that's even possible to determine.
I don't dominate women's tennis, what Steffi did or Seles and even Serena few years ago, that was domination.
I'm just no.1 in the ranking and having an excellent season. I'm sure there a few more players who can
achieve that level of consistancy if they stay healthy for longer period."Justine's own words. :worship:

Serena was more dominant. :worship:

Henpova
Nov 18th, 2007, 04:30 AM
I think they are the same, I mean Serena won there slams, but won less match for the whole year and lost more, she also only on five other tittle. Henin won a lot of mathces and only lost four. She was two Slams, and won 8 other titles. She also won the YEC and that harder, but its not equal to the GS. So I think Its just about equal.

Apoleb
Nov 18th, 2007, 04:41 AM
Justine has "dominated" in 2007 because she's been healthy and mentally tough as nails. Justine has won more matches than Serena, and numerically has been more dominant, but her dominance is a result of her playing hyper consistently, as her opponents blink, more than her sheer power. When Serena lost in 2002, it was because she was missing every other shot. Justine has been overpowered a few times this year

So what? That shouldn't make any difference in the assessment of who was more dominant. It's like saying a super defensive or an extremely mentally tough player can never be dominant even when he/she is beating everyone on tour (not saying that Justine is one). Mental toughness, fitness, defensive play..etc are just as important in assessing someone's game as their level of offensive play. When Justine was getting "overpowered" and when Serena was "beating herself", they were both playing below their standards, and even if they weren't, that shouldn't question their dominance. If you're able to consistently beat almost everyone in the top 10, win 2 or more slams, win a very high percentage of your matches..etc, then it's called dominance, period.

Having said that, I don't think Justine was as dominant as Serena, and the only reason is Wimbledon. Pure and simple.

Tennisstar86
Nov 18th, 2007, 05:29 AM
Justine^s record at this years YEC was 5-0, therefore, she did not need round robin play to win. What was Serena^s longest winning streak in 2002? Was it longer than Justine^25? I really don^t know.

I dont know either..... but Venus won 35 in 2000.... does that make her more dominate?

And no justine didnt need round robin play..... but thats not the point. as others have stated when Serena dominated the #2 player won 7 titles in the same year.... Kuznetsova won 1. AND it wasnt due to 1 retirement. it was due to 3....

Tennisstar86
Nov 18th, 2007, 05:35 AM
I dont know either..... but Venus won 35 in 2000.... does that make her more dominate?

And no justine didnt need round robin play..... but thats not the point. as others have stated when Serena dominated the #2 player won 7 titles in the same year.... Kuznetsova won 1. AND it wasnt due to 1 retirement. it was due to 3....

Just looked it up..... Serena won 21 matches from Rome through FO, and WImbledon before losing to Rubin in LA

Then she won 18 matches from US Open till the tour champions where she lost to Clijsters in the final.

Then in 2003 she won another 21 straight matches to start the year

CJ07
Nov 18th, 2007, 05:36 AM
I dont know either..... but Venus won 35 in 2000.... does that make her more dominate?

And no justine didnt need round robin play..... but thats not the point. as others have stated when Serena dominated the #2 player won 7 titles in the same year.... Kuznetsova won 1. AND it wasnt due to 1 retirement. it was due to 3....
Serena's longest streak was 21 matches, but thats because she wasn't the most consistent.

Both, however, pale to Venus's 35 match win streak, which included 2 slams and an Olympic gold medal :worship:

However, Graf and Navratilova both had more combined than their next two competitors - thats domination.

Dodoboy.
Nov 18th, 2007, 12:49 PM
yES!! Serena is winning and rightly so!
A lot of good points have been made!

serenus_2k8
Nov 18th, 2007, 12:57 PM
Serena was incomparable, she dominated from the word go...
Henin has had a lot of close calls and still cannot be called the downright best player on tour even though shes has a good year - and thats because other players at their best would not lose to Henin...

Get over it :lol:

shell
Nov 18th, 2007, 01:01 PM
Well summarized. I actually voted for Serena based solely on the extra GS and the grass court win. Really other than that, I would have voted Justine for all the reasons you pointed out.

shell
Nov 18th, 2007, 01:04 PM
So what? That shouldn't make any difference in the assessment of who was more dominant. It's like saying a super defensive or an extremely mentally tough player can never be dominant even when he/she is beating everyone on tour (not saying that Justine is one). Mental toughness, fitness, defensive play..etc are just as important in assessing someone's game as their level of offensive play. When Justine was getting "overpowered" and when Serena was "beating herself", they were both playing below their standards, and even if they weren't, that shouldn't question their dominance. If you're able to consistently beat almost everyone in the top 10, win 2 or more slams, win a very high percentage of your matches..etc, then it's called dominance, period.

Having said that, I don't think Justine was as dominant as Serena, and the only reason is Wimbledon. Pure and simple.

Opps, and here is the quoted. :o

serenus_2k8
Nov 18th, 2007, 01:06 PM
:D enough said - the poll speaks for itself! :D

Renalicious
Nov 18th, 2007, 01:46 PM
Yay :)

Matt01
Nov 18th, 2007, 01:50 PM
:D enough said - the poll speaks for itself! :D


Yep, it's very close. As it should be.

thrust
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Perhaps the main difference is that Serena^s dominant year is old news, while Justine^s is NOW!

Kart
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:11 PM
I've never been much of a 'slams are everything' believer but really, this is all it comes down to when both women played enough outside of major events to indicate they were capable of proving it all season.

They bring their best to the big tournaments.

Last time I checked US + French + Wimbledon > US + French - Wimbledon.

Sam L
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:20 PM
If you want to talk domination objectively, there's only one stat that should matter imo and that is:

Overall Winning %
Serena 2002 = 56/5 = 91.8
Justine 2007 = 63/4 = 94


Take, for example, two players play 10 tournaments for the year including the 4 grand slams:--

Player A wins all 4 grand slams but no other tournament.
Player B wins 9 tournaments including 3 grand slams.

Player B would have a better winning %, although Player A would've had a greater year. But Player A wasn't as dominating as Player B since she had lost up to 6 matches in the year whereas B only lost 1 match.

Domination should be decided by how much you win against all your opponents in a given year. Not just your opponents at grand slams in that year.

Henin 2007 wins this.

serenus_2k8
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:31 PM
Perhaps the main difference is that Serena^s dominant year is old news, while Justine^s is NOW!

Totally! Lets just forget Seles and Navaratilova etc.

There in the past anyways :lol: :haha:

DokicPova
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:36 PM
justine... serena didnt have competition that year

Tennisaddict
Nov 18th, 2007, 02:38 PM
:lol: They were tied and when I just now voted for Serena she went ahead :p.
But it deserves to be this close. I was in doubt but you just cannot overlook the fact that Serena has won 3 slams out of 3 played in the same year and Justine 2 out of 3 played. That IMO is the main reason why Serena in 2002 was more dominant than Justine in 2007. Plus the way Serena destroyed her opponents on a regular basis that's hard to emulate although Justine showed that against Bartoli :tape: that was the worst beating I have seen in years.

Kworb
Nov 18th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Justine.. more titles, longer winner streak, same number of prestigious tournaments won

plantman
Nov 18th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Perhaps the main difference is that Serena^s dominant year is old news, while Justine^s is NOW!:yeah:

DimaDinosaur
Nov 18th, 2007, 09:40 PM
Serena wins this one hands down

venusallday
Nov 18th, 2007, 10:32 PM
this is an easy one!

three-slam year vs. two-slam year...hmmmmm

I'll go with Serena.

UDACHi
Nov 18th, 2007, 11:40 PM
i put a lot of emphasis on slams myself, and i don't see how a year with two majors can be considered better than a year with three.

The Kaz
Nov 18th, 2007, 11:46 PM
Justine

shap_half
Nov 19th, 2007, 01:10 AM
I think Justine has been embarrassing the rest of the tour since that Wimbledon defeat, but I don't know if that makes up for the 1 extra slam Serena won in 2002. So I would say just about equal, it really depends on which weigh more: a YEC and a better W-L record or the extra slam. Of course the slam is a sweeter deal but does that mean more dominant? I don't know.

Serenidad.
Nov 19th, 2007, 01:30 AM
Serena. Even Justine said herself her year was not as good as Serena in 2002.

If Justine had won Wimbledon, I would say Justine. She only won 2 slams and the loss was to someone she shouldn't lose to on a big stage. Especially, have beaten her the week before losing 4 games. Would never happen to Serena.

goldenslam888
Nov 19th, 2007, 04:24 AM
justine also won the yec in 2007, while serena lost in the finals of the yec in 2002. both were very good, thing is serena's great year was 5 years ago.

spencercarlos
Nov 19th, 2007, 05:30 AM
justine also won the yec in 2007, while serena lost in the finals of the yec in 2002. both were very good, thing is serena's great year was 5 years ago.
Justine won the Masters, but Serena played 3 straight grand slam finals and won them and the finals of the Masters, while Justine won 2 Grand slams, won the masters and made the semis of the other grand slam.

That alone puts Serenaīs record in those GS events to 21-0, while Heninīs 19-1.

Sadly a Masters/YEC is not considered a grand slam, but just a level below it, otherwise my fave Sabatini would have "3 grand slams" with her 2 Yec wins :p

thing is serena's great year was 5 years ago.
And? Grafīs golden slam was in 1988, does it means that since it was 19 years ago itīs inferior to Heninīs 2007?

goldenslam888
Nov 19th, 2007, 02:18 PM
a golden slam has only been done once, not matter what the year, and will never be done again. it stands alone. justine and serenas best years are comparable to each other. while serena may have a slightly better record in slams in 2002, justine has a better overall record in 2007. theres more to tennis than just slams. and a yec is also comparable to a slam.

Tennisstar86
Nov 19th, 2007, 04:02 PM
justine... serena didnt have competition that year

lol.......

2002 - #2 player Venus williams 7 titles.....

2007 - #2 player Kuznetsova 1 titles (due to 3 retirements)

who exactly didnt have any competition......

Philbo
Nov 19th, 2007, 05:07 PM
I had to vote for serena but it was mighty close.. I just remember FEELING like Serena was more dominant back then - only Venus had a chance of beating her if she showed up...

Justine has had a great year, but you still thought players had a chance of beating her.

If Justine had played and won the Aus Open this year I would have given her my vote, but as it stands, I think Justine is a close 2nd to Serena on this..

goldenslam888
Nov 19th, 2007, 05:19 PM
lol.......

2002 - #2 player Venus williams 7 titles.....

2007 - #2 player Kuznetsova 1 titles (due to 3 retirements)

who exactly didnt have any competition......


right, but nobody told kuz she was suppose to lose. :tape:

Tennisstar86
Nov 19th, 2007, 05:30 PM
right, but nobody told kuz she was suppose to lose. lol(ez rena fans)

As much as i wish that were true...(Im not a serena fan.....) fact is in 2002 Venus just wasnt able to beat Serena...be it mental(i saw it as mental) or skills......

Thanx4nothin
Nov 19th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Serena had the more dominant year, she won three slams it's a simple as. It's not even a biased thing for God's sake it's just the way it is, all the twats saying Henin had a better year this year must be delusional. Had Henin won Wimbledon then I would have said Henin but Serena remains as the player to have had the most dominant season of this generation.

plantman
Nov 19th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Wow....Anybody surprised?

Justine winning yet another poll!:bounce: :bounce:

Dodoboy.
Nov 19th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Humans are fickle

GavS
Nov 19th, 2007, 07:45 PM
It's close but if you were to ask Justine to swap all her non-GS tournament wins this year for winning Wimbledon as well this year she'd bite your arm off. So I have to go with Serena's 2002 year.

serenus_2k8
Nov 19th, 2007, 07:53 PM
It's close but if you were to ask Justine to swap all her non-GS tournament wins this year for winning Wimbledon as well this year she'd bite your arm off. So I have to go with Serena's 2002 year.

True. There is a huge gap between 2 GS and 3 :)

Serena!
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:07 PM
how is justine winning this poll? honestly.

evan2907
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:12 PM
True. There is a huge gap between 2 GS and 3 :)
0,1 millimetre.:devil: :help:

Thanx4nothin
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:16 PM
''People are Fickle' If justine slips in dominance next year then the dominant force will be winning every poll, fickle or idiotic it's like picking from a hat.

Thanx4nothin
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:17 PM
0,1 millimetre.:devil: :help:

Or the difference in being one of a select gp of players to ever win all 4 slams and NOT being in that gp. :o

Tennisaddict
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:18 PM
how is justine winning this poll? honestly.

Because biased people don't want to acknowledge what's staring them in the face :tape: I'm not a Justine fan at all, but I would vote for her if she had won Wimbledon this year. As it stands Serena is the more dominant player by a small margin.

bandabou
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:21 PM
Serena...wimbledon-open back to back without dropping a set..and french open-wimby double, last player to do that! in fact last player to win 3 majors in a year, last player to win wimbledon and the open in same year. Serena was GOOD!!

evan2907
Nov 19th, 2007, 08:25 PM
Serena's fans are really narrow-minded with their slams.:help:
You follow only 2 months of tennis per year :help:

serenus_2k8
Nov 19th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Serena's fans are really narrow-minded with their slams.:help:
You follow only 2 months of tennis per year :help:

They aint called Majors for nothing ;)

slydevil6142
Nov 19th, 2007, 09:30 PM
Does anyone really know how many YECS steffi has or how many tier 1's she won??..... no but everyone remembers the number of slams she has Serena 02> Justine 07.... does this mean Justine didnt have a GREAT year? No not at all she has nothing to be ashamed about however you simply cant compare 3 straight slams to 2 ... the field was literally shaking in their boots by the time the US open rolled around ... that tournment could be one of the most loopsided wins ever.