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View Full Version : Which Format do you prefer?


Kevin.
Nov 8th, 2007, 01:35 AM
Round of 16 (single elimination)
or
8 players in Round Robin


personally, I like the round of 16......

mboyle
Nov 8th, 2007, 05:54 AM
The round robin by far. There's no need for non top ten players to be in the Year Ending Championship. The YEC is supposed to determine who the best player is. In a 16 player draw, someone could hypothetically win without once facing another top ten player. A top player would face a maximum of three other top players to win the title.

The Round Robin format is harder. One has to play 5 matches and must win 4 (possibly 3, but very unlikely)--all against top ten opponents. Thus, the MINIMUM number of top eight players one MUST beat to win the title is equal to the MAXIMUM number of top eight players one COULD beat in the R16 format.

I think the way people qualify is ridiculous, however. The ranking system obviously must revert to the divisor system. At the very VERY least, only a player's best 17 results should count towards YEC qualification. No need to have the Vera Zvonareva's and Marion Bartoli's of the world in the YEC over Jennifer Capriati and Nicole Vaidisova.

NeeemZ
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:06 AM
I like the Round Robin system much better. It sets a target for everyone to strive for to make the YEC instead of a round of 16, where at least three players get in who probably didn't deserve to get in.

Round of 16 is brutal because it can reward those who basically played crap all year but have a lucky streak, and disadvantage those who play great all year but have an off day.

Round Robin is better because it still allows for players who lose a match to still be in contention of making it through the group stage.

CMR
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:37 AM
I like the Round Robin system with the best 8 players.
16 players sounds not bad. Therefore you would need 4 groups and the best 2 of every group will advance to the quarterfinals. A disadvantage would be that several players could be injured and it's possible that a player around rank 25 would play at the YEC.

Direwolf
Nov 8th, 2007, 09:50 AM
One stupid thing is that..
its quantity that puts these players in the YEC...

it should have been points/number of tournaments..

Harvs
Nov 8th, 2007, 10:01 AM
round of 16:)

Harvs
Nov 8th, 2007, 10:02 AM
One stupid thing is that..
its quantity that puts these players in the YEC...

it should have been points/number of tournaments..

i disagree completely.... its good that some players play every week... great for the sport.

Sammy 4 eva!!!
Nov 8th, 2007, 10:04 AM
Round of 16! I love knock-out :hearts:

goldenlox
Nov 8th, 2007, 10:39 AM
Round of 16 is MUCH better. You would have Dementieva, Petrova, Vaidisova, Golovin, Schnyder.
You wouldn't have these same matches everyday. How many times can you watch Hantuchova lose in 2?
It works, and always has, with 16 top players.
This is unwatchable. Justine is in the semis on Wednseday. She plays a dead rubber today.
If Anna and Maria win, it's all dead rubbers tiomorrow.
This is stupid, and everyone knows it.
Last year who made the last semi spot depended on how many games Kim won, or if she retired. 3 different possibilities, depending on when she retires.

Now, nobody knows what Bartoli has to dio to get in the semi.

It's stupid.

Play the best 16 for a huge purse.

supergrunt
Nov 8th, 2007, 10:40 AM
R16

KennyChante4ever
Nov 8th, 2007, 11:16 AM
The Round of 16 had suspense. The Round Robin format I find irritating because it veers away from the basis of tennis: once you lose, you're out. I don't like second chances at all.

Poova
Nov 8th, 2007, 12:46 PM
Definitely the round of 16 format. The dead rubber thing is annoying, there's not as much suspense because you know that even if you lose one match you can still go through by winning the other two. Some players also tank their 'dead rubbers', and even if you have a bad day you can still go through. One bad day and you should be OUT imo, that's what tennis is about.

The Kaz
Nov 8th, 2007, 12:49 PM
Top 16 by far....

LudwigDvorak
Nov 8th, 2007, 12:52 PM
I hate round robin regardless of the format.

Round of 16. Get the 16 best players in the world together, they deserve it. To be #15 may not be as impressive as #2, but anyone in the top 16 can compete with the rest.

And the issue of dead rubbers others have brought up is very true.

Although I gotta say--YEC tennis is just terrible regardless of how you format it. It used to measure who the best was, now it just measures who the fittest is, which is unfortunately what most tournament victories mean nowadays, and I don't mean that as a knock on Justine or anything in case you take it that way.

justine schnyder
Nov 8th, 2007, 12:55 PM
Round rubin by far
Not only because it's a special tourniment and not always every player from the top 16 deserve this.. (Like this year I'm not sure is Safina and Petrova deserved to be in, and if it was round 16 they were in)

Wayn77
Nov 8th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Never been a fan of RR, but I think the 8 works perfectly for the YEC.

Top 8 players in the world (when they are all fit and firing) all playing against each other in two groups.
If you have a bad day you can re-group for the next match.

Worked particularly well last year. Mauresmo hammered in her first match - came through to deservedly make the final.

AnnaK_4ever
Nov 8th, 2007, 01:18 PM
All tennis tournaments should be played under knock-out system.

Renalicious
Nov 8th, 2007, 01:27 PM
Round robin!

mboyle
Nov 8th, 2007, 01:33 PM
I think the thing to keep in mind is, this is women's tennis. There is a huge gap between the best 8 and the next best 8. Of course, thanks to the dumb ranking system, sometimes the ninth or tenth best player gets in over the seventh or eighth best player, but it would be even more disastrous to let everyone in.

RJWCapriati
Nov 8th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Single elimination

Ksenia.
Nov 8th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Rr :)

KennyChante4ever
Nov 8th, 2007, 04:48 PM
I think the thing to keep in mind is, this is women's tennis. There is a huge gap between the best 8 and the next best 8. Of course, thanks to the dumb ranking system, sometimes the ninth or tenth best player gets in over the seventh or eighth best player, but it would be even more disastrous to let everyone in.

I see your point but there's even a bigger gap between Justine and Serena vs. the others in Madrid right now. Again, I don't like the fact that you can still move on even if you lose a match.

BartoliBabes
Nov 8th, 2007, 04:55 PM
def top16!!

sfselesfan
Nov 8th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Round robin!

But...I think they should take the top ten in the race.

7 should play 10, and 8 should play 9 to get into the round robin contest. (Kind of like wildcards in the NFL playoffs).

SF

Dexter
Nov 8th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Round Robin, but only for the YEC.

Sally Struthers
Nov 8th, 2007, 05:05 PM
round of 16. It creates a lot more drama knowing that if you don't win you're going home. I'm of the opinion that if you lose, you shouldn't still be able to win something.

Kai
Nov 8th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Top 16

goldenlox
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:31 PM
Now there are at least 2 dead rubbers tomorrow. The Sveta-Dani match is meaningless.
Maria and Ana, play, but both are in the semi no matter who wins.
This sucks and everyone knows it. The Friday of the YEC should be one of the biggest days of the year in women's tennis.
If Anna wins today, tomorrow is meaningless.

sfselesfan
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:33 PM
Now there are at least 2 dead rubbers tomorrow. The Sveta-Dani match is meaningless.
Maria and Ana, play, but both are in the semi no matter who wins.
This sucks and everyone knows it. The Friday of the YEC should be one of the biggest days of the year in women's tennis.
If Anna wins today, tomorrow is meaningless.

Not true. Ana v. Sharapova determines who plays the winner of the other group. That is not "meaningless" considering how well Justine has been playing.

I see a lot of Sharapova fans saying that. Hmmm...

SF

goldenlox
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:35 PM
A Sharapova-Ivanovic match should be meaningful, like when they meet at a major.
The loser of this can win the title.
If Jankovic wins today, she's probably playing the loser of Maria-Ana.

sfselesfan
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:37 PM
A Sharapova-Ivanovic match should be meaningful, like when they meet at a major.
The loser of this can win the title.
If Jankovic wins today, she's probably playing the loser of Maria-Ana.

It IS meaningful. It determines who gets the easier semi.

SF

Wayn77
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:41 PM
Now there are at least 2 dead rubbers tomorrow. The Sveta-Dani match is meaningless.
Maria and Ana, play, but both are in the semi no matter who wins.
This sucks and everyone knows it. The Friday of the YEC should be one of the biggest days of the year in women's tennis.
If Anna wins today, tomorrow is meaningless.

It's a shame, the results have conspired to a dead-looking Friday this year.

Had Sveta won her first match, Dani won the tie-break and forced a third set yesterday. Coulda woulda shoulda perhaps. It would have been still all up for grabs.
It's what makes the 2 group round robin potentiallly exciting.

Maria Croft
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:43 PM
For the YEC most definitely the Round Robin system.

John.
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:47 PM
I prefer Round of 16

mboyle
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:49 PM
Now there are at least 2 dead rubbers tomorrow. The Sveta-Dani match is meaningless.
Maria and Ana, play, but both are in the semi no matter who wins.
This sucks and everyone knows it. The Friday of the YEC should be one of the biggest days of the year in women's tennis.
If Anna wins today, tomorrow is meaningless.

Worst case scenario in the RR format, a player MUST beat 4 top ten players to win the YEC.

BEST case scenario in a knockout format, a player can beat 3 top ten players to win the YEC.

I don't know, but I'm of the position that 4 live top ten rubbers and 1 dead top ten rubber is still better than 3 top ten rubbers.

goldenlox
Nov 8th, 2007, 06:53 PM
It's crazy to have a Sveta-Dani match tomorrow. It means nothing.
Last year Amele beat Justine, and the match meant nothing to Justine, who won the title.
Today's match means nothing to Justine.

sfselesfan
Nov 8th, 2007, 07:03 PM
It's crazy to have a Sveta-Dani match tomorrow. It means nothing.
Last year Amele beat Justine, and the match meant nothing to Justine, who won the title.
Today's match means nothing to Justine.

Clearly it means something to her if she's up 5-0.

SF

goldenlox
Nov 8th, 2007, 07:16 PM
A Friday with a 16 draw would have quarterfinals. The loser out, the winner moves on.
Not Sveta-Dani playing for $30,000. It's like an exhibition.

sfselesfan
Nov 8th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Yeah...Justine's match was so meaningless to her she double bageled Marion.

SF

hurricanejeanne
Nov 8th, 2007, 07:38 PM
I've only been a tennis fan since 2003, so I've only known the round robin format.
I'd prefer Round of 16 knock out because matches like Ivanovic vs. Sharapova would bear meaning instead of it being in a dead rubber.

incognito
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:01 PM
Definitely prefer the Round Robin format...

After all, the YEC should not be just another tournament with a smaller entry field and the RR format makes it a little more entertaining...

frenchie
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:02 PM
round of 16

E.Dementieva_FAN
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:04 PM
16 players with RR. :lol: ;)

Rik.
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:04 PM
RR :hearts:
It special as it's only at the YEC :)

AnnaK_4ever
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Worst case scenario in the RR format, a player MUST beat 4 top ten players to win the YEC.


Sharapova won YEC-2004 by defeating 3 top-tenners (Kuznetsova in RR, Myskina in SF, Serena in F).

incognito
Nov 8th, 2007, 08:21 PM
As for dead rubbers, normally playing for 1st place means avoiding the favorite from the other group and apart from that nobody likes to lose. Even in a knock-out system, you have players that choke, lose by spraying errors all over the place or even withdraw because of injury. So it's not like all matches in a knock-out system are high-quality..

Xander
Nov 9th, 2007, 03:11 PM
Round of 16. 8 players isn't enough for me. For my money, if there are more players, there will be more fans who'll want to buy tickets for the championships. Thew two times I attended was great because I went on the first 3 nights and saw all 16 players and the doubles teams, too. :)

Mikey B
Nov 9th, 2007, 03:47 PM
round robins.. it works, simple as... and yeh the dead rubbers are a little weak, but so are many 1st-4th round matches in other tournaments!

Slutiana
Nov 9th, 2007, 03:52 PM
16. I just feel that right now, the whole top 20 is very crowded and anyone is good enough to be in the YEC. Just look at Vaidisova and golovin who have pushed henin recently...

ogc
Nov 9th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Round robin FTW,
knockout blows doe to many reasons

LindsayRulz
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:09 PM
Round of 16. There's no tank like in the round robin when a player is already qualified for the semis.

xan
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:10 PM
The round robin is best.

It means that top players who may have missed each other all year due to the draws get a better chance of meeting here.

It's also DIFFERENT, which is what WTA needs. When the Champs were best of 16 knock-out it was just like yet another Tier1, there was no point to it. Now there is real pressure to make the Top eight, and you see how the top players play against each other consistently in a different format from usual.

goldenlox
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Today is a clear example why round robin doesn't work.
2 matches with players who are already eliminated. All 4 of them are losers already.
Then there's a match where the object is to avoid Justine.

It's losers day at the YEC.
Friday of the YEC should be quarterfinals. Big matches.
Not loser day.

Paneru
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:17 PM
If people do not like RR and
do not like R16, why not make
it top 8, single elimination?

That way, none of this rediculous if A wins
this match and B loses a set, ect....junk,
no tanking for a desired SF, and the draw
is made according to the race rank.(i.e.
if so and so wants to avoid so and so
before a final or what have you, they had
better be earning it during the season.

TheBoiledEgg
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Today is a clear example why round robin doesn't work.
2 matches with players who are already eliminated. All 4 of them are losers already.
Then there's a match where the object is to avoid Justine.

It's losers day at the YEC.
Friday of the YEC should be quarterfinals. Big matches.
Not loser day.

RR works fine but WTA have idiots running them
they have no idea what to do with scheduling
its not rocket science........ just copy ATP format :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

goldenlox
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:33 PM
I'm watching the first few games, and I can see Marion and Dani are huge favorites.
That's because Jelena and Sveta have had very strong years. They know today is nonsense.

If Jelena is sick, does Lena play?

cardio
Nov 9th, 2007, 04:55 PM
definetely round of 16 . Dead rubbers are mentioned lot of times. And I think some people are too much overrating magic numbers like top 10. Henin won Roland Garros beating 3 top 10 players and US Open beating only 2 top 10 players.Does it mean her US Open title is less worth than Roland Garros title?! Does it mean her US Open title was won easier, that her opponents were weaker there? Nonsense. Another arguement to prefer knock-out system is : I do not have to watch the same player who is in bad shape 3 times in a row. It is so boring and annoying.

goldenlox
Nov 9th, 2007, 08:55 PM
So we had a Friday of meaningless, unwatchable tennis.
The round robin killed the YEC.

daniela86
Nov 9th, 2007, 09:00 PM
Definitly round of 16 cos I prefer knock-out.

Caz
Nov 9th, 2007, 10:33 PM
Round of 16. I lost interest in the YEC once they changed the format. I only pay attention now once it gets to the semi final stage and reverts back to being a real, knock out, tournament. To me, the Round Robin format makes most of the matches like an exhibition, as opposed to a real tournament. Don't even get me started on how they've killed the YEC doubles.

MatchpointPRT
Nov 9th, 2007, 10:59 PM
I don´t like very much the round robin system... Just 8 players, and knowing sometimes who is in the semi in the match is boring. Maybe a round robin system with 16 players distributed by 4 groups would be better... The YEC wouldn´t lose by having 16 players, because as we saw the #2 and #3 went 0-3 in the group so being top 8 doesnt mean that they will play better than the 16th player in the ranking...

goldenlox
Nov 10th, 2007, 12:43 AM
The round robin system is nonsense. An ill or slumping player still plays 3 times, even if they are awful.
The idea is not to reward a player who played too much all year and is exhausted now.

It's to reward the best players NOW. The same way the AO rewards the best players in late January.

They need a 16 draw, and any slumping players are out with one loss.
The quarterfinals will be players who won, the semis with players who have no losses in the tournament.

Wayn77
Nov 10th, 2007, 01:05 AM
The round robin system is nonsense. An ill or slumping player still plays 3 times, even if they are awful.
The idea is not to reward a player who played too much all year and is exhausted now.

It's to reward the best players NOW. The same way the AO rewards the best players in late January.

They need a 16 draw, and any slumping players are out with one loss.
The quarterfinals will be players who won, the semis with players who have no losses in the tournament.

Totally disagree.

We get that format every week, all year.

The YEC is different.
Supposedly a spectacular season-end showpiece of the worlds elite 8 players.
They have one bad day, they get another chance in the next match.
It's supposed to be ultra-competitive with everybody capable of beating everybody in the round-robin format.
Leaving all kinds of permutations for semi-final qualification on YEC Friday. That's the theory anyway.

Last year was pretty good.
This year has been poor.

goldenlox
Nov 10th, 2007, 01:12 AM
Last year sucked. Justine lost a dead rubber. Except it wasn't a dead rubber to her opponent.
Why should a match that is meaningless to one player eliminate another player who isn't playing?

Everything about round robin is stupid. Especially having a sick Jelena walk off losing 3 straight days, and an uninterested Sveta get bageled.

What are we watching here? It certainly isn't important tennis by players who gave a crap.

Wayn77
Nov 10th, 2007, 01:25 AM
Last year Hingis and Mauresmo made round-robin work.

Hingis lost her first match, had a terrific battle with the Nadia next up and won.

Amelie was hammered in her first match.
Re-grouped and made it to the final beating Kim in the semi, arguably the best match of the year.

That is what the YEC is all about.

Nobody was complaining on Tuesday night after a positive start.

This year's group stages have been a let-down plus the withdrawals and injuries.

edit: sorry about the stuttering and short-hand - I'm dodging the boss at work...

goldenlox
Nov 10th, 2007, 01:35 AM
It would have helped this tournament a lot to have Vaidisova, Schnyder, Golovin, Petrova, Dementieva playing.
You wouldn't have slumping players tanking dead rubbers. What we saw this week was pathetic.

It's the system's fault, not the players. There was no incentive today. And you got a full day of noncompetitive, meaningless, garbage.

And yesterday's 60 60 wouldn't have happened. Bartoli would have been in a 16 draw tournament, ready to play.

Dave.
Nov 10th, 2007, 01:50 AM
Despite recent years rubbish Championships and how the YEC's of the past have produced so much better tennis, I prefer the round-robin format for the YEC.

The YEC should really only be the top 8 involved- that's such a big goal for all the players at the start of the year and adds excitement especially nearer the end of the year to see who will get those last places. Also, round-robin format ensures that the YEC will only have matches with big names in, and that is the point of it. There shouldn't be upsets or surprise breakthroughs at the YEC, it should be the top players in the world competing against each other. To win the tournament, a player should be able to get through 5 matches against top 8 players- that's the challenge!

Having a knock-out of 16 would only be like any other tournament that we have in all of the other weeks of the year, how boring! I think the round-robin format adds that bit of variety to the YEC that makes it a special tournament. I was against the ATP adding round-robin events to normal tournaments though.

goldenlox
Nov 10th, 2007, 01:58 AM
How can you watch this and call a 16 draw boring? The only match of any interest this week was Ana-Sveta.
A 16 draw makes every match meaningful. Watching tired players lose 3 times is a stupid way to end the year.
It makes players in the top 5 look bad. One loss and gone. That's tennis.

Dave.
Nov 10th, 2007, 02:08 AM
How can you watch this and call a 16 draw boring? The only match of any interest this week was Ana-Sveta.
A 16 draw makes every match meaningful. Watching tired players lose 3 times is a stupid way to end the year.
It makes players in the top 5 look bad. One loss and gone. That's tennis.

A knockout draw is what happens every week of the year so it's good to have something different at the YEC. I'm not saying whether it works or not, I just think it's a great idea for the YEC. Whether it works depends on the players and unfortunately the standard of tennis is probably at one of it's lowest points this year. If there was round-robin 8-10-20 years ago, there would have been some great tennis.

Wayn77
Nov 10th, 2007, 02:09 AM
No I don't want 16, let's keep it to the elite top 8 players.

Nor can we have a repeat of the abysmal stuff on display today.

What about expanding the YEC to two weeks?

Scrap the two groups, have a mini super-league round robin of every player playing each other.

The top four after 7 matches facing off in semi-finals.


.... with Larry whats-his-face doing everything in his power to make sure the stands are pretty full every match.

Dave.
Nov 10th, 2007, 02:18 AM
No I don't want 16, let's keep it to the elite top 8 players.

Nor can we have a repeat of the abysmal stuff on display today.

What about expanding the YEC to two weeks?

Scrap the two groups, have a mini super-league round robin of every player playing each other.

The top four after 7 matches facing off in semi-finals.


.... with Larry whats-his-face doing everything in his power to make sure the stands are pretty full every match.


No having this thing drawn out any longer would just be unbearable! The quality of tennis at this event this year has been disgraceful for the 8 best players in the world. I think they should have a couple of weeks (if not more) off before this event to allow themselves to recharge to be at their best at the YEC. They need to shorten the season to allow that.

LucasArg
Nov 10th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Round of 16. More chances for more players.

AcesHigh
Nov 10th, 2007, 04:02 AM
Round of 16 would suck complete ass. This tourney is for the elite and having Bartoli and Hantuchova is enough medicrity(sp?) Plus, fans want to see the best play against the best. IMagine if Venus and Serena were playing this YEC. Getting to see the best of hte best players face off possibly for the only time this year.. it's great.

KNockout format sucks... sorry. Keep that for slams, not YEC>

Calypso
Nov 10th, 2007, 06:01 AM
Round robin. More chances of seeing the match-ups you want!
For a really good match-up, say Justine vs Serena (if she were playing),
you could enjoy watching them in the group match-ups and in the later
stages as well.

However, Round of 16 was also great because each match was do-or-die.

Rod the Bama
Nov 10th, 2007, 07:20 AM
I like both formats, but i prefer the round robin at the YEC only, mainly because we get to see the players play against each other more often.

Kim-the-bomb
Nov 10th, 2007, 04:41 PM
I'm pro-"round robin". But I also like the following ideas:

a) Round robin, but players 7 to 10 playing each other to qualify.

OR

b) One big group of "round robin" between the top 5. And one final match between the two best.

goldenlox
Nov 10th, 2007, 04:50 PM
I think we can all agree that the current system doesn't work.
The only tense moment the whole week is when Sveta was returning serve at 5-all in the 3rd vs Ana, and had break points.
Otherwise, this week was non-competitive, and loaded with meaningless matches.